Can a Bard do okay in 1v1 melee combat?

[Loadsamoney]

Obviously they're not going to have the DPS output of a Monk or a well-geared Ranger, but, assuming the Bard is good at twisting and is using both the right weapons and the right songs (let's say 1. self haste/str/ac, 2. target slow, 3. target dot, 4. maybe Hymn to slow HP loss), can a Bard handle 1v1s acceptably at the later levels without having to retreat?

Or are they really bad at melee combat no matter what songs they're playing?

[brecon]

They don't have the mitigation nor the outright dps to take down mobs solo in later levels. I'm going to focus on forms of soloing that a bard does with weapons, though in practice, I'm wielding a drum or a lute when I solo.

Bards remain very effective soloers against most mob types. Of course there is aoe kiting. For solo mobs, there are a number of variations on fear, charm and chant kiting. The only one in which you will be swinging swords will be fear kiting. When you fear kite, you can either self haste and dot, or double dot with a drum....i find the latter to do more damage at later levels, but I don't have an epic yet.

To be the most effective fear kiter, make sure to get a journeymans walking stick or, better, an orb of tishan. Just twist snare and fear on mobs with high MR until it procs tash, then you should be safe to twist four or five songs (so snare, fear, 2x dots, and then either another dot or regen song).

There are a number of variations, including fear kiting with a charmed pet, but thats the gist of it.

[Loadsamoney]

They don't have the mitigation nor the outright dps to take down mobs solo in later levels. I'm going to focus on forms of soloing that a bard does with weapons, though in practice, I'm wielding a drum or a lute when I solo.

Bards remain very effective soloers against most mob types. Of course there is aoe kiting. For solo mobs, there are a number of variations on fear, charm and chant kiting. The only one in which you will be swinging swords will be fear kiting. When you fear kite, you can either self haste and dot, or double dot with a drum....i find the latter to do more damage at later levels, but I don't have an epic yet.

To be the most effective fear kiter, make sure to get a journeymans walking stick or, better, an orb of tishan. Just twist snare and fear on mobs with high MR until it procs tash, then you should be safe to twist four or five songs (so snare, fear, 2x dots, and then either another dot or regen song).

There are a number of variations, including fear kiting with a charmed pet, but thats the gist of it.

So even if the Bard has decent weapons and uses the right combination of songs, he simply cannot stand toe to toe with something past a certain level?

[brecon]

That's correct

[zanderklocke]

As long as the mob doesn't resist your mez, you can get pretty creative with soloing. Hit mob for a bit, mez it, heal up, repeat.

[Loadsamoney]

As long as the mob doesn't resist your mez, you can get pretty creative with soloing. Hit mob for a bit, mez it, heal up, repeat.

Heh, I may have to try that. Might be a bit of work, but the biggest reason why I played a Bard was so that I could get comfortable playing a difficult class that requires constant attention and adaptation. I didn't want to play a "lazy" class and develop bad habits.

[Daldaen]

If I can't charm on my bard I tend to favor snaring, fearing and chant DoTing mobs.

If I'm after EXP it goes AE Kiting >>>>>>>> Charm Kiting > Chant/Fear Kiting >>>>>> Grouping.

If I'm after a mob or camp for loots, whatever in my bag of tricks gets the job done.

Bard Melee is exceptionally bad. They get dual wield and self haste but they don't get double attack, and their Melee skill caps are lower than all other melee.

With snare/fear you can solo mobs but it is probably slower than snare/fear and DoTs.

[zanderklocke]

With snare/fear you can solo mobs but it is probably slower than snare/fear and DoTs.

Meleeing so fun though!

If you have epic and guardians mace, it's probably better than Snare/Fear and DoTs. Or you could be meleeing and twisting in the dots too because why not?

[Daldaen]

Because loss of instrument mod ends up losing you DPS. DPS which melee don't make up.

Less of a problem with epic but... I'm not quite sure my 44 bard warrants 300k for Trak guts, 40k for red dragon scales and 100k? For white dragon scales... No idea how much whites even are. But he has the rest of his epic!

[Loadsamoney]

Because loss of instrument mod ends up losing you DPS. DPS which melee don't make up.

Less of a problem with epic but... I'm not quite sure my 44 bard warrants 300k for Trak guts, 40k for red dragon scales and 100k? For white dragon scales... No idea how much whites even are. But he has the rest of his epic!

Wait until Trakanon guts are from the spawned mob. You'll save a lot of money.

[zanderklocke]

Interesting enough, the best damage I can typically do is from my DS.

I was duoing NG, and mobs died a lot faster when I did not slow/snare them.

Use epic + psalm for DS, clickie from singing steel bracer or blazing vambraces, and then swapping in sky horn for mcvaxius song. DS ends up being in mid 50s for each hit. While meleeing, this ends up being pretty decent dps.

[brecon]

In response to your second comment - Bard is a ton of fun to play, and there is a gentle learning curve since Bards only get one song per level most of the time. You will have a lot of time to experiment with the songs, and practice with them, as you progress. I'm still learning new tricks, sometimes from watching others, sometimes from experimenting.

Being said, Bard is (in my opinion) the most challenging class to play. This is because the very best Bards can do ridiculous things, by making the most of their songs and the environment. The only thing that Bards really can't solo are unfearable / super high MR mobs. For everything else, there's a way. It might take forever, but it can be taken down.

The best way to learn is by getting in XP groups, since you will be called upon to serve any role that the group is missing. You'll have to learn to pull - a really crucial skill for a solo bard in dungeons. You will have to learn how to CC, which is quite challenging at first, but eventually tab-targeting and timing will become natural. You'll learn to charm for added DPS, and you'll learn that an effective tactic is to charm casters over melee - let them drain their mana on the mob you're killing! You'll learn which buffs and debuffs other classes provide, specifically slows, haste, MR buffs and debuffs, DSs. You'll learn how to deal with casters more effectively, by chain mezzing, fearing, or buffing MR, depending on the situation. And, when everything is going wrong, you'll learn how to kite aggro away in order to limit the size of the encounter.

Not everything you need to solo you'll learn in an xp group - but it's really the best way to experiment with a safety net, so to speak. And through your mid-high 30s, rest assured, you'll mostly be using melee weapons.

[stakha]

quick question as far as ds stacking. will our song ds stack with the ss bracer? will it stack with druid ds?