Pick Pocket Policy: Mobs you don't own.

[User]

I searched the forums quite a bit and had not found any answers to my question so here it is:

What is the Official policy on Rogues using Pick Pocket to steal from NPCs that are engaged by other players? Not sure what to classify this under other than harassment.

99% of the time it would be trivial what the rogue was stealing (however still just as bad in form) but there are a couple times in particular where this can be a serious problem.

Case in point: A Rogue waits for you to engage Allizewsaur then just loots him dry.

I know a couple mouthbreathers will reply with "Oh but dewd, don't h8 on rogues for using the skills available to them!11" ... So I will respond in advance with "So by that logic, it would be ok for a Necro/Enchanter to fear/charm mobs that other players are fighting?" No, of course it isn't.

Don't get me wrong, if they catch mobs up and NOT engaged then by all means pickpocket the mofo dry and tie his shoelaces toghether ...but there is seriously something wrong with stealing from mobs that someone else is actively killing.

Any GM response or has one responded to this question before?

[ryuut1]

you wussy. quit crying, you can solo the everything but the planes.

[purist]

iirc the official policy is to think outside the bun, y'all.

[yaeger]

I'd say it's one of the perks of being a rogue. You can also think of it another way: it's their version of soloing for cash.

Personally, I'd like to see rogues being like they were in Classic. Able to pickpocket items from the mobs.

[azeth]

When I Pickpocket:

- Mob is not engaged.
- I am the main looter in a group


When I do not:

- Mob is engaged.
- I am not the main looter.

[Karnek]

Weren't rogues limited to humanoids only? I saw one the other day robbing crocs in oasis. It had the whole, 'Stop Thief!' message. I recall only certain mobs would shout your name like the clerics in hate.

[yaeger]

Not in EQ.

Vanguard limited pickpocketing to humanoid only... maybe EQ2 as well..

[ryuut1]

When I Pickpocket:

- Mob is not engaged.
- I am the main looter in a group


When I do not:

- Mob is engaged.
- I am not the main looter.


who cares what you do

[Laiokin]

I had some recollection that at some point there was a different loot pool for pickpocking. Not sure if we are at that point yet in 1999 evolution.

[Taxi]

This thread embodies well why i loved Rallos Zek.

BUT BUT HES STEALING MAH LOOTS WITH HIS PICKPOCKETS BOO HOO FUCKING HOO

[ryuut1]

you can't pick pocket magical items. anything non-magic is fair game.

[azeth]

you should not be pickpocketing mobs that are engaged. end of story.

to do so is to "steal" loot from whomever has claim to the mob, just because you don't gain exp off the theft, does not mean this is not the same as "kill stealing."

edit: also, should you wish to dispute this, then consider this example:

Allizewsaur (level 50) who is typically, as in never, considered an exp mob due to enormous health and possible lvl 20 ph is camped by a Magician farmer. Now, this person is camping this mob solely for $$ drops, and is "camping" it by the rule book.

Please justify (by the book) pickpocketing this mob as the Magician kills it.

[Tork]

I thought pickpocket and regular loot were separate drops?

[ryuut1]

you should not be pickpocketing mobs that are engaged. end of story.

to do so is to "steal" loot from whomever has claim to the mob, just because you don't gain exp off the theft, does not mean this is not the same as "kill stealing."


yes, pick pocketing is called stealing in most places. crybaby.

[Messianic]

yes, pick pocketing is called stealing in most places. crybaby.

Quit crying about his crying, crybaby

[azeth]

yes, pick pocketing is called stealing in most places. crybaby.

honestly, what're you flaming for?

Read the OP, jesus christ.

edit:

yes, pick pocketing is called stealing in most places. crybaby.

good luck making friends bud. either you're ignorant of the rules, or cannot conceptualize your own thoughts. stealing, my friend, is not allowed. this is a "bluebie" server, deal.

[User]

By all means cry about his crying over my crying if it keeps the thread at the top of the list. Troll me pls.

[Messianic]

By all means cry about his crying over my crying if it keeps the thread at the top of the list. Troll me pls.

Oh yeah? Well you're a stupidhead.

[ryuut1]

honestly, what're you flaming for?

Read the OP, jesus christ.

edit:



good luck making friends bud. either you're ignorant of the rules, or cannot conceptualize your own thoughts. stealing, my friend, is not allowed. this is a "bluebie" server, deal.



pwnd.

[mage]

If anyone really believes pickpocketing is okay for engaged mobs head into Hate or Fear while a guild clears and start pulling the gems off the trash mobs. Watch how fast your ass gets suspended

[Taxi]

If anyone really believes pickpocketing is okay for engaged mobs head into Hate or Fear while a guild clears and start pulling the gems off the trash mobs. Watch how fast your ass gets suspended

I wasnt saying that it would not break the rules, it was more like a "I wish this was a pvp server so i could slay the OP's ass over and over and drink his tears" sort of thing.

[Tiggles]

Pickpocket on rogues was the classic vision of Verant when this game was made.

As a fellow OP mage I say give rogues a break let them farm diamonds off you.

Also half the time most people dont grind with see invis on so you might not even notice them.

[Taxi]

Pickpocket on rogues was the classic vision of Verant when this game was made.

As a fellow OP mage I say give rogues a break let them farm diamonds off you.

Also half the time most people dont grind with see invis on so you might not even notice them.

Thats a good point, most of the players of classic were on blue servers, was pickpocket disabled on live blue servers?

[azeth]

to be honest i asked a while back in a diff. thread about a separate loot table for rogues, as I thought I remembered not having to worry about stealing my own groups on Rodcet Nife (blue).

To answer your Q Taxi, pickpocket was fully enabled and apparently pulled the loot out of the same loot table. I must have misremembered having a pickpocket loot table separate from the normal one according to the replies I received.

[Tiggles]

to be honest i asked a while back in a diff. thread about a separate loot table for rogues, as I thought I remembered not having to worry about stealing my own groups on Rodcet Nife (blue).

To answer your Q Taxi, pickpocket was fully enabled and apparently pulled the loot out of the same loot table. I must have misremembered having a pickpocket loot table separate from the normal one according to the replies I received.


On live I would tell groups that it pulled from a seperate loot table and didnt effect drops from the group.

Shit was Ca$h

[azeth]

On live I would tell groups that it pulled from a seperate loot table and didnt effect drops from the group.

Shit was Ca$h

I usually ML'd in my groups, pumped STR into my rogue even back in the day. Pretty sure I was usually fair about splitting the gems both looted and PP'd when doing Sebilis for examp.

[purist]

In the words of Taysh, a Wood Elf Rogue and Officer of Vesica Dei, who upon being asked wtf he was doing as he repeatedly pickpocketed someone killing SGs in Oasis, had this to say:

"I am a Rogue, I will do whatever I wish."

[Taxi]

In the words of Taysh, a Wood Elf Rogue and Officer of Vesica Dei, who upon being asked wtf he was doing as he repeatedly pickpocketed someone killing SGs in Oasis, had this to say:

"I am a Rogue, I will do whatever I wish."

Isnt that the proper definition of a rogue as any though? lol

[Messianic]

Isnt that the proper definition of a rogue as any though? lol

Not quite...

The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can’t do. For instance, you can accept that your father was a pirate and a good man or you can’t. But pirate is in your blood, boy, so you’ll have to square with that some day. And me, for example, I can let you drown, but I can’t bring this ship into Tortuga all by me onesies, savvy? So, can you sail under the command of a pirate, or can you not?

[User]

...it was more like a "I wish this was a pvp server so i could slay the OP's ass over and over and drink his tears" sort of thing.

However comical your PVP related comments on a PVE server are, they just aren't relavent and serve no purpose in the thread whatsoever, but I applaud you for trying to think outside the bun.

If this were a PVP server then I would have snared, feared, and laughed at the rogue ...not killing him ..just keeping him perpetually feared and snared. But this isn't. So I couldn't. So, yeah, here we are.

[yaeger]

Back on the Classic Server, rogues used to be able to pickpocket anything.

For example, anything on a mobs loot table was fair game. After enough people finished killing a raid boss (Naggy, Vox, Cazic for example), loot the corpse, and finding nothing on it they finally complained enough that the devs limited Rogue PP to non-magical items.

Personally I have no problem with Rogues taking PP from engaged or non-engaged mobs. I also have no problem with Rogues pickpocketing items from named mobs before they are engaged.

On the other hand, the rogue is supposed to be the outlaw, the rebel, the thief. It fits perfectly into the class that the rogue can 'steal' from other players.

I doubt the devs are going to do anything about it. The mechanic is fine, you just have to convince the people playing the 'outlaw' class to play nice.

[purist]

Isnt that the proper definition of a rogue as any though? lol

lol yeah, I was quoting it 'cause it's awesome and that's how Rogues roll

[Messianic]

Back on the Classic Server, rogues used to be able to pickpocket anything.

For example, anything on a mobs loot table was fair game. After enough people finished killing a raid boss (Naggy, Vox, Cazic for example), loot the corpse, and finding nothing on it they finally complained enough that the devs limited Rogue PP to non-magical items.

Personally I have no problem with Rogues taking PP from engaged or non-engaged mobs. I also have no problem with Rogues pickpocketing items from named mobs before they are engaged.

On the other hand, the rogue is supposed to be the outlaw, the rebel, the thief. It fits perfectly into the class that the rogue can 'steal' from other players.

I doubt the devs are going to do anything about it. The mechanic is fine, you just have to convince the people playing the 'outlaw' class to play nice.

The problem I have with the mechanic is that it causes one to question so much else which seems wrong with the class. Sure, "outlaws" are typically able to steal from people and get good at it.

So good they can sneak by a very old dragon, steal a bunch of very heavy and valuable items and bags full of platinum and leave without the dragon noticing?

Furthermore, how can they simply disappear from plain sight? Are they magical? If they're magically disappearing from sight, why don't they have to use mana to remain hidden?

If Rogues are "so good" at stealing, why aren't monks "so good" at kicking? Why can't the monk split the dragon's head in two in one blow? They "hone their bodies into weapons," don't they? Why does feign death ever fail if monks are so good at it?

Why can't a wizard call a 6000-ton meteor from the sky, smash through the mountain and crush Nagafen to death? They are "masters of the arcane," aren't they?



I just think it's a silly mechanic at the degree to which they can currently act. Sure, rogues are supposed to be masters of subtlety and theft - but there's supposed to be more limitations. I don't give a crap how good of a magician or illusionist you are RL, you're not stealing a sword from me that i'm holding in my hand in front of my face, without me noticing. I can buy that you'd steal small items or stored items from bags - I know how good some airport thieves are.

But stealing from a freaking dragon? Gimme a break =P

[ShadowWulf]

I want to be able to pickpocket other players.
Then destroy their manastone while they watch :cool:

[ryuut1]

The problem I have with the mechanic is that it causes one to question so much else which seems wrong with the class. Sure, "outlaws" are typically able to steal from people and get good at it.

So good they can sneak by a very old dragon, steal a bunch of very heavy and valuable items and bags full of platinum and leave without the dragon noticing?

Furthermore, how can they simply disappear from plain sight? Are they magical? If they're magically disappearing from sight, why don't they have to use mana to remain hidden?

If Rogues are "so good" at stealing, why aren't monks "so good" at kicking? Why can't the monk split the dragon's head in two in one blow? They "hone their bodies into weapons," don't they? Why does feign death ever fail if monks are so good at it?

Why can't a wizard call a 6000-ton meteor from the sky, smash through the mountain and crush Nagafen to death? They are "masters of the arcane," aren't they?



I just think it's a silly mechanic at the degree to which they can currently act. Sure, rogues are supposed to be masters of subtlety and theft - but there's supposed to be more limitations. I don't give a crap how good of a magician or illusionist you are RL, you're not stealing a sword from me that i'm holding in my hand in front of my face, without me noticing. I can buy that you'd steal small items or stored items from bags - I know how good some airport thieves are.

But stealing from a freaking dragon? Gimme a break =P

i've pick pocketed everything up to planar bosses. you can steal this:

gems(not lambent stones or other magical ones)
spell reagents
coin
other reagents, non-magical

the post was made over some dude MAYBE losing one of his alli gems, and he's probably held the camp for 5 hours with his mage or necro anyhow.

[ElanoraBryght]

Is it considered by GMs an exploit?
Is it classic?

If the answers to these questions are no and yes, I don't see what the issue is. If it's either an exploit or not classic, there's a forum for that.

[Atennu]

Pretty sure Abacab was allowed to freely pickpocket Vox.

This makes me happy that rogues are finally doing what they should be doing.

[Dantes]

I always thought the alternate loot table was just a myth made up by rogues who wanted more cash.

[Tiggles]

However comical your PVP related comments on a PVE server are, they just aren't relavent and serve no purpose in the thread whatsoever, but I applaud you for trying to think outside the bun.

If this were a PVP server then I would have snared, feared, and laughed at the rogue ...not killing him ..just keeping him perpetually feared and snared. But this isn't. So I couldn't. So, yeah, here we are.



Can't fear players in PVP.

Also, most people here seem to think pickpocket is may more OP then it is. I have also pick pocketed most mobs in classic and the above post is right you may (rarely) get a diamond or gem but mostly you get Words, Gold/Silver, Nothing.


If you where farming alli and the rogue got 2-3 pick pockets off you I bet while you camped him for 5 hours you made triple what he made stealing from you.


Remember rogues can not solo AT ALL at high lvls forget about camping named item mobs. They are 100% group orientated.


The idea that a rogue is spamming his PP ability and stealing Gems Yaks FBSS with 100% accuracy is laughable.

[azeth]

If you where farming alli and the rogue got 2-3 pick pockets off you I bet while you camped him for 5 hours you made triple what he made stealing from you.

I wouldn't use Alli as your example to make this point. 3/4 times Alli drops NOTHING, also it's such a long fight that if Alli spawned with a Jacinth/Diamond/Blue Diamond/Black Sapphire its 100% guarantee a rogue will pickpocket it before you kill Alli.

The only way to prevent this is to kill your pet instantly when Alli does eventually notice the rogue.

edit: or feign death. Tbh any necro out there dealing with this pickpocket issue should easily be owning rogues by FDing if the mob has noticed the rogue at any point during the fight.

[Messianic]

i've pick pocketed everything up to planar bosses. you can steal this:

gems(not lambent stones or other magical ones)
spell reagents
coin
other reagents, non-magical

the post was made over some dude MAYBE losing one of his alli gems, and he's probably held the camp for 5 hours with his mage or necro anyhow.

Sure, and its probably not a huge deal - and my statements are only with regards to those who think "Rogues should be able to steal anything" is somehow reasonable. What you mentioned I think is pretty reasonable.

Stealing awesome (magic) weapons from in-game gods? Yeah right. :P

[ryuut1]

Is it considered by GMs an exploit?
Is it classic?

If the answers to these questions are no and yes, I don't see what the issue is. If it's either an exploit or not classic, there's a forum for that.

this.

[Elissa]

to be honest i asked a while back in a diff. thread about a separate loot table for rogues, as I thought I remembered not having to worry about stealing my own groups on Rodcet Nife (blue).

To answer your Q Taxi, pickpocket was fully enabled and apparently pulled the loot out of the same loot table. I must have misremembered having a pickpocket loot table separate from the normal one according to the replies I received.

In classic, pick pocket pulled from the same loot/money table. Later on, they created a separate loot/money table for rogues to pickpocket from. Even later on, they changed it back to the being from the same.

I really don't see this being that big of an issue.

[ryuut1]

it's worth the death if i get the black sapphire from alli.

oh WAIT, i did do that, meepo! you remember! except for the black sapphire part.

and we all know how often alli spawns. often enough for this example to be AWESOME

YAH

[Tiggles]

I wouldn't use Alli as your example to make this point. 3/4 times Alli drops NOTHING, also it's such a long fight that if Alli spawned with a Jacinth/Diamond/Blue Diamond/Black Sapphire its 100% guarantee a rogue will pickpocket it before you kill Alli.

The only way to prevent this is to kill your pet instantly when Alli does eventually notice the rogue.

edit: or feign death. Tbh any necro out there dealing with this pickpocket issue should easily be owning rogues by FDing if the mob has noticed the rogue at any point during the fight.


Even using Ali as an example its been a while but i'm pretty sure he drops some coin when ever a rogue pickpockets on an even con mob (assuming the rogue is 50) there is about a 50+% he gets nothing and not noticed, Then a smaller chance he will be seen and the rest is a Success and he steals someting.

Now when he does succesfuly steals something it takes into account money as well and he doesnt steal ALL of the money just a chunk of it. So he steals some coin and tries again if he succesfully steals again then he may get more coin


Gems and items are the rarest part of a rogue pick pocket.


I would be more mad if a rogue was following around hill giants since he is a higher lvl they wouldent notice him and he could pick them dry while a mage is killing other ones and he would never even see the rogue since he is stealing before the mage gets to him.

[tj218]

Depends on the situation:

1. Sneaking into a raid or a dungeon camp and making multiple attempts, eventually picking the mob clean (it's on the same table in P99) is in poor taste, and should not be allowed.

2. Running past a druid quad kiting hill giants, and picking the giants (one time) as they pass you is hardly noticeable and while it probably shouldn't be done isn't worth getting your panties in a bunch. OOo they picked 4platinum.....look out. Then gate out, and teach the Rogue a lesson.

[azeth]

Depends on the situation:

1. Sneaking into a raid or a dungeon camp and making multiple attempts, eventually picking the mob clean (it's on the same table in P99) is in poor taste, and should not be allowed.

2. Running past a druid quad kiting hill giants, and picking the giants (one time) as they pass you is hardly noticeable and while it probably shouldn't be done isn't worth getting your panties in a bunch. OOo they picked 4platinum.....look out. Then gate out, and teach the Rogue a lesson.

I agree. I personally hate the Allizewsaur example though because it's such a safe spot for a rogue to PP that realistically any rogue could be camping the gems, while a pet class does all the work.

[Kani]

There was a thread talking about pickpocketing a while back, and when the change was made to a separate loot pool. I tried back then, sifting through old patch messages to find out when this change went into effect, without any luck. PP'ing from a mob someone had engaged, is a bit of a dick move IMO. If it wasn't being fought or actively camped, then it's fair game to be picked clean. When it comes to groups; I would always share the wealth, if I amassed a bunch of gems. Even a Rogue should allow his allies a small taste of the wealth. At least that's the way I always saw it.

[Ponden]

I never thought I would see the day where Mages and Necros complained about not making enough money. Go Rogues, GO!

Maybe we should all reroll Magicians and play e-z farm for a bit.

[dallammarr]

Can't fear players in PVP.

If this is true then its NOT classic as you were able to fear other players in PVP up until they revamped the PVP system which if memory serves me correctly occured either just before or just after the release of Luclin in 2001.

Prior to that I clearly remember as a 35 Necro in the Kunark era, being challeneged by a 40 Ench and whiping his ass. Also while camping pzjyn at level 45 some jackass ranja thinking he was gonna steal my camp and me fear kiting his ass back to Qeynos as he agreed to a duel and winner got the camp. In PVP necros were almost unbeatable until they gimped us in the PVP changes.

[User]

Can't fear players in PVP.
That's too bad, guess i'd have to slap him with AIDS and spam shadowstep instead.

If you where farming alli and the rogue got 2-3 pick pockets off you I bet while you camped him for 5 hours you made triple what he made stealing from you.
It is HIGHLY unlilkely that he stole anything more than a few coins, since it is HIGHLY unlikely that Allizewsaur will spawn with any items at all. It's the principal that I'm fighting for. (Been camping him 6 hours with no loot worth mentioning but, again, this is irrelevant to the issue)

Remember rogues can not solo AT ALL at high lvls forget about camping named item mobs. They are 100% group orientated.
I fail to see how that's my responsibility. I also have a 50 rogue, but I don't rely on him for loot ...that's why I made a character that can farm stuff. I mean seriously ...DUH.

The idea that a rogue is spamming his PP ability and stealing Gems Yaks FBSS with 100% accuracy is laughable.
Agreed.



Come on now you can't honestly feel that it is okay for a rogue to pickpocket black sapphires from your engaged targets can you?

How is that any different than charming another's named, fearing another's named, or training another player as they fight their named ...all with the explicit intent to take the loot as your own from someone already engaged on the mob?

The means may differ but the end is the same. It's straight stealing of loot. I can't lay it out any more clearly than that.

[azeth]

The means may differ but the end is the same. It's straight stealing of loot. I can't lay it out any more clearly than that.

agree. I even main-play a rogue.

[Ponden]

If my friend's mage can farm 1-2k an hour at ease...I feel Rogues should have the ability to steal 1 gem every 9 hours. I don't do it, however, I wouldn't complain.

[yaeger]

All you farmers feel abused by the hordes of solo rogues spamming pickpocket lately or something?

[ryuut1]

i feel it's ok. i do it.

the pnp never said anything against it. it's part of the game!(mouthbreathe)

just so you know, i sell it at a discount since i didn't have to work for it.

[azeth]

i feel it's ok. i do it.

the pnp never said anything against it. it's part of the game!(mouthbreathe)

just so you know, i sell it at a discount since i didn't have to work for it.

are you Dyno?

Also, since you're claiming to have done this to Meepo i texted my wife and she's never run into a rogue PPing Allizewsaur (she mains Meepo now)

[ryuut1]

hahaha

y u mad

but no.

[tj218]

I only play a rogue.

Again, the quad-kiting example I can justify it by saying if you are going to be a dink and be greedy on mobs...you won't notice a few pp missing. Plus I would say I am being by class, a rogue and a sneaky thief.

But at an established camp in a dungeon, that you aren't just "passing through" it is clearly an asshole thing to do.

[Tiggles]

I only play a rogue.

Again, the quad-kiting example I can justify it by saying if you are going to be a dink and be greedy on mobs...you won't notice a few pp missing. Plus I would say I am being by class, a rogue and a sneaky thief.

But at an established camp in a dungeon, that you aren't just "passing through" it is clearly an asshole thing to do.


I doubt their are many rogues steaking camps and just a few isolated cases. Yes it is stealing no its not a big deal no it doesnt not happen very often.

If rogues could cast Clarity or Sow you wouldent mind them stealing coin from your mobs!

[yaeger]

Maybe we're going about this all wrong.

How hard is it for a 50 rogue to farm plat? Why can't a 50 rogue keep up with other classes in the farming department?

Are solo classes camping and farming content that is supposed to be group content?

I never had a problem joining an exp/farm group on my rogue during live and making money. Yet, expectations on this server seem to state that groups aren't a necessity. That a select few classes have a huge advantage.

We need to look at why rogues feel like they need to sneak up and pickpocket for money (sounds ridiculous) instead of not having the opportunity to earn money legitimately.

[Ponden]

There is no issue. Someone's mob didn't drop a gem, so the tinfoil hat was put on.

[purist]

Pickpocketing gold/gems is 100% fairgame. It's a Rogue's birthright and the more expensive the gem pickpocketed off you, the bigger the badge of honor, sucker.

If they do it in groups and people think it's bad etiquette they run the risk of being a heavily group-dependent class not getting invited to groups again.

If you're an OP 50 mage-enchanter husband/wife duo please don't cry about not being able to farm enough plat. lol yeah you're so oppressed, you fucking crybaby Azeth.

Think outside the bun y'all.

[ryuut1]

this too =P

[Dantes]

If you're an OP 50 mage-enchanter husband/wife duo please don't cry about not being able to farm enough plat. lol yeah you're so oppressed, you fucking crybaby Azeth.

Yeah. And wives are not classic.

[Tiggles]

Pickpocketing gold/gems is 100% fairgame. It's a Rogue's birthright and the more expensive the gem pickpocketed off you, the bigger the badge of honor, sucker.

If they do it in groups and people think it's bad etiquette they run the risk of being a heavily group-dependent class not getting invited to groups again.

If you're an OP 50 mage-enchanter husband/wife duo please don't cry about not being able to farm enough plat. lol yeah you're so oppressed, you fucking crybaby Azeth.

Think outside the bun y'all.



Fuck off Troll.

Azeth and his Wife are good people

We were having an adult conversation about this and a tool like you tries to derail into a Rants and Flame post.

[azeth]

i appreciate that, but also I get the arguement for pickpocketing engaged mobs. Just relaying my opinion as both a farm class, and a rogue <-- assumed it'd be a pretty non bias opinion.

[User]

I think at least half of the people posting replies are misunderstanding the fundamental argument that began this thread.

These are topics that ARE NOT related to the thread:
Is pick pocketing an exploit?
Should pick pocketing be disabled?
Are some classes better suited for soloing?
Should pick pocketing be done in groups?
Should pick pocketing be done to unclaimed free-roaming NPCs?
Should I do something just because I can, or should I think about the impact it will have on others around me?
What are the mechanics for Pick Pocketing?

These are topics that ARE related to the thread:
Is it server policy to reserve the loot table of a NPC to the player that has actively engaged it? (Do you own the loot of the NPC that you own?)

If the answer is NO then fine, it's NO. I've just not seen any official word on the matter, anywhere. Like I said, I've got a 50 rogue already and if it so happens that the answer is NO then I'd be content to park him for gem farming. I mean why work hard when you can let someone else do it for you right? I'm only adamantly against it right now because I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that this sort of action would be against the server rules.

(P.S. Tiggles don't think i was cracking on you in a previous post, I quoted you for reference but my replies were to the community as a whole since many share your opinions)

[ryuut1]

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/Rbless/021109-slap-fight.jpg

[hedbonker]

There is no issue. Someone's mob didn't drop a gem, so the tinfoil hat was put on.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2274/2404325409_5543da1791.jpg

[purist]

i appreciate that, but also I get the arguement for pickpocketing engaged mobs. Just relaying my opinion as both a farm class, and a rogue <-- assumed it'd be a pretty non bias opinion.

Having a farm class makes your opinion on pp'ing more biased, not less biased.

You farmed 50k+ or whatever on your op 50 mage/enchanter duo to twink your alt Rogue. Then you feign righteousness by taking a stance against pp'ing and act as if your opinion is somehow unbiased based on the fact that you play both classes.

No flaws in that logic at all. :cool:

[ryuut1]

what's so great here...

is i've stolen 1 black sapphire and 1 blue diamond in 5 days from alli, from various people.

2, in 5 days.

[Noleafclover]

Peter Piper Picked a Peckled Peck of Pick Pocket Policies.

[ryuut1]

Peter Piper Picked a Peckled Peck of Pick Pocket Policies.

best post on this thread yet

[Tygerwoody]

Rogues should be able to pickpocket what they want, when they want. Its a perk of the class. Its not like they have a chance in hell at soloing anything. Give em a few gems. Who cares.

[Harrison]

Terrible logic...lol

[Teeroyoyort]

This should be part of play nice policy. If a group goes to alli island to pharm him. They're there for pretty much 1 reason. Money. Then some rogue comes in and steals any chance of you making anything. That's messed up. It really shouldn't matter if it's a solo nec/mage enc/cleric, or a group.

[savarin]

It's stealing. A certain rogue used to steal gems at guild raids in hate/fear, gems which normally would've been used to make jewelry for guild members (you know, the other people putting in time to kill the mobs and whom paid for port stones & peridots).

[Cars]

For some reason I don't get at all miffed by rogues stealing from plat farmers but mainly in the case of the mob in question. There are tons of other mobs that are quick kills, thet provide way better plat ratios that rogues would have a way harder time robbing you of. This thread is about ONE mob that drops rare gems and the fact is, anyone that plays a rogue, that wants to act rogue-like would park his ass in front of alli cause its a good stake-out. Now that you know that Alli is a rogue target, stop being a total moron and farm a better spot or understand your risking the loot your after to any rogue that wants to capitalize on the one money making opportunity they have. Instead of a play nice policy they should have a play smart policy, some people are whiners. Use your head farm somewhere else or QQ.

[yaeger]

Why is everyone ignoring the elephant in the room?

What's the normal way for a lvl 50 rogue to make good money? And why is pickpocketing engaged mobs a viable option?

If it's the best way to make money (kinda sad), it's going to happen whether or not it's condemned by the community.

[Darenenski]

And where do you go to "farm a better spot" if all you're after is the gems for jewelery upgrades? Be it for resists gear or hp/mana. I suggest you try playing a solo class and see it from both sides. Rather than have the mentality it's not my problem nor will it ever be so what do I care.

[yaeger]

And where do you go to "farm a better spot" if all you're after is the gems for jewelery upgrades? Be it for resists gear or hp/mana. I suggest you try playing a solo class and see it from both sides. Rather than have the mentality it's not my problem nor will it ever be so what do I care.

Clearly only seeing it from one side as well..

What's a rogue supposed to do to get gems for jewelry upgrades? Are there typically groups around to assist in farming these materials? Will the 'other side' group up with the rogue to help him?

The status quo is forcing the rogues into this underhanded style of play.

[Dantes]

I would be annoyed if a rogue was pickpocketing mobs while I was specifically farming for plat, but in a group setting the amount of plat we make is a joke anyway so I don't mind at all.

[purist]

What? Rogues behaving... Rogue-ishly? *gasp*

[ryuut1]

nice try, savarin =P all those gems were forfeit

[ryuut1]

Terrible logic...lol


CURSE YOU FINAWIN!!!

you see sav's sucker punch? =P

[ShnarfShnarf]

all those gems were forfeit

I don't know how you think you can justify stealing from YOUR OWN GUILD it's not like a rogue contributes anything but dps. I hope those guys smartened up and gave your ass the boot.

for people saying to bad casters rogues cant solo, to fucking bad rogues cant solo go roll a caster to do your farming.

[yaeger]

for people saying to bad casters rogues cant solo, to fucking bad rogues cant solo go roll a caster to do your farming.

Yeah, because playing another class to improve your class makes a lot of sense.

It wouldn't be so bad if groups were more common. Which is probably why rogues without a solo class are doing this in the first place.

[ryuut1]

I don't know how you think you can justify stealing from YOUR OWN GUILD it's not like a rogue contributes anything but dps. I hope those guys smartened up and gave your ass the boot.

for people saying to bad casters rogues cant solo, to fucking bad rogues cant solo go roll a caster to do your farming.


ooo i stole it right into the guild leader's inventory =P yahh

im a bad guy. how about the people who got full suits of planes gear and then left an hour later? they should show back up to the guild and hand us some money, right?

bah, non-issue =P i steal your stuff, sucka. i dont need to roll a caster

[RKromwell]

Only time I have a problem with pick pocket is when we are in a group. If you are picking the mob dry, folks that depend on split to make money are getting screwed. If I am in a group for five hours and only make two plat, all in copper, there is something wrong.

[Noselacri]

Pick-pocketing should follow the same rule as mob tagging: if someone else attacked it first, it's theirs and you leave it alone unless they ask for help. If I were in a position to enforce rules, I would consider PPing from another guy's mob the same as KSing, and it doesn't matter one bit how much rogues struggle to farm. At least they have a way of doing it, just go for the mobs that aren't currently being killed by somebody else. Warriors can't farm either, but you wouldn't accept them actively trying to steal your kill just because the class can't farm on their own. As was always the case, playing certain classes means resigning yourself to the fact that your income will either come from grouping and winning the rolls, or from farming with another character. Using the weakness of your class as an excuse is idiotic, and PPing seafuries or sand giants while others are in the process of killing them is precisely the same as KSing.

[ryuut1]

your face.

[Tygerwoody]

for people saying to bad casters rogues cant solo, to fucking bad rogues cant solo go roll a caster to do your farming.
Or.... farm gems from groups.


Rogues aren't meant to be liked. I've never once condemned a rogue from pickpocketing a mob while we raid. Rogues get shafted second only to Warriors in EQ. These guys deserve SOMETHING. Let em have the gems.


Also just for reference. We have rogues in our guild right now who pickpocket during our raids. Sometimes they spread the wealth of the gems. Sometimes they don't. It really doesn't matter. IMO the act of the Rogue spreading the pickpocket wealth should be admired instead of expected. I know if I were a rogue I would keep at least 75% of my pick pocketed loot, even in raids.

[doery]

It's funny that on a ROLEPLAYING game someone would get mad that in a ROLEPLAYING universe a ROGUE is known to pickpocket people,mobs,not care, be sneaky, be an asshole, etc.

He picketed the mob infront of your wife and she didn't see it? lulz.

Also lulzy @ "I texted my wife and asked her" you married quite the keeper there, broseph.

[ryuut1]

i even died after i took a gem from your wife, right behind alli.

how does she play if she's blind?

[JayDee]

who cares what you do

Maybe his buttbody he references in like every post

lolol

[Noselacri]

Yeah, because people roleplay extensively, right? Or do you just concentrate your roleplaying effort on precisely the moments where you steal from other people's mobs and then step out of character again whenever there's nothing to steal from? What a hilarious defense. I'm gonna make a necro and trick people into getting sacrificed for emerals, it's completely justified because I'm evil.

[starguitar33]

maybe you should kill your mobs quicker.

[azeth]

i even died after i took a gem from your wife, right behind alli.

Why do you keep talking to me as if you know me?

Ryuut, you're a non factor.

^ are you amped I mentioned your name?

edit: the funniest part about this thread is that the only QQing is coming from the crybaby thieves trying to justify why it's okay for them to gank your shit. By that rationale, Warriors, Monks, SKs, and Rangers technically should be allowed to attempt to KS every mob you pull considering they have no means to make any PP, no? They can't solo right? So they deserve to use their "skill sets" to take your shit.

Also, how bout this idea - stop being an asshole and taking shit from other players, use your heads. These same folks justifying PPing engaged mobs are also the people QQing on R&F about people KSing, training, taking raids mobs etc. No, you're right though - you should be allowed to steal from our mobs, and I can only assume that when I steamroll your camp spot and KS your shit, we'll see eye to eye. (i forgot 90% of you refuse to associate your in game names with your forum troll accounts)

[Braveguard]

Threads like this taint my impression of the server. I can't believe how many people rationalize their bad behavior. Just because you *can* do something doesn't mean it's fair game. Other classes have the raw power to KS. Should they be allowed to do so. Hell, any class can train your ass out of a zone. It's easier to argue that is a competitive technique than that pp'ing a mob someone else has already engaged is fair practice.

[Noleafclover]

It's funny that on a ROLEPLAYING game someone would get mad that in a ROLEPLAYING universe a ROGUE is known to pickpocket people,mobs,not care, be sneaky, be an asshole, etc.

He picketed the mob infront of your wife and she didn't see it? lulz.

Also lulzy @ "I texted my wife and asked her" you married quite the keeper there, broseph.

Since roleplaying is so important, don't you mean:

To wit: in the making of merriment in whereforth one doth act as though upon a stage, how another doth indignation take, in this world's stage, whence a criminal doth relieve others of their earthly possessions with glee and the scant flicker of a thought.

Roleplay a wizard for a more intelligent argument.

[Dominick]

The only way a rogue can farm money effectively is with pick pocket.

Its just a fact, Rogues can't tank, we can't quad, we can fear kite sometimes with intimidate and a dagger that procs darkness. When we solo its really hard to even use backstab.

So how does a rogue farm plat? Go to a rich mod area, preferable where others are farming gold. I would equip my gate hammer, and pick pockets while stealthed. If I blew it, I would run, and more often than not, some farmer would take the mob. If I am really in trouble I would turn and use my gate hammer until it procs, then buy drinks with the Dragoons in Overthere.

You don't want engaged mobs because usually they turn on you if rooted or snared. The other issue is that most decent farmers can bring the mobs down pretty fast.

It worked best when the Chinese gold farmers were in full swing in the mornings.

TLDR:
The point of this all? How much did I usually make? Not a lot. Nothing you pickpocket is worth much and coin gets heavy fast. Try moving in stealth when you are encumbered.

[Omnimorph]

Since roleplaying is so important, don't you mean:

To wit: in the making of merriment in whereforth one doth act as though upon a stage, how another doth indignation take, in this world's stage, whence a criminal doth relieve others of their earthly possessions with glee and the scant flicker of a thought.

Roleplay a wizard for a more intelligent argument.

lol.

I'm an enchanter, i have mem blur. If i mem blur your mob, technically it's as if no one engaged it (no one on aggro list etc) so... can i then kill it? it's using my skill set :3

oh, and i'm a dark elf, so /role should work too. evil evil evil evil....

[azeth]

here's the tldr of this entire thread

OP asks - What's the official policy on pickpocketing mobs that are engaged?

Response (for it) - It's a game mechanic, it's the only way rogues can farm solo, stop crying.

Response (against it) - It's the same as KSing, the mob doesn't belong to you.

So, we currently have KSing rules which state you cannot engage a mob that has been previously engaged with intent to take the experience or loot. Now, pickpocketing pulls loot from the same loot table, so if a mob is engaged then guess what? You're stealing loot.

When you argue - It's a game mechanic, we wouldn't be able to pickpocket if it wasn't allowed. Well, FD is a game mechanic and I'm positive you'd be in R&F the moment some monk drops a train on you to take your camp.

How else can rogues make $ solo? Roll a mage. What about every other class that can't solo and can't pickpocket? I mean, every SK reading this thread should feel empowered to go out and KS the shit out of whomever they feel like, it's the same thing.

[Tiggles]

here's the tldr of this entire thread

OP asks - What's the official policy on pickpocketing mobs that are engaged?

Response (for it) - It's a game mechanic, it's the only way rogues can farm solo, stop crying.

Response (against it) - It's the same as KSing, the mob doesn't belong to you.

So, we currently have KSing rules which state you cannot engage a mob that has been previously engaged with intent to take the experience or loot. Now, pickpocketing pulls loot from the same loot table, so if a mob is engaged then guess what? You're stealing loot.

When you argue - It's a game mechanic, we wouldn't be able to pickpocket if it wasn't allowed. Well, FD is a game mechanic and I'm positive you'd be in R&F the moment some monk drops a train on you to take your camp.

How else can rogues make $ solo? Roll a mage. What about every other class that can't solo and can't pickpocket? I mean, every SK reading this thread should feel empowered to go out and KS the shit out of whomever they feel like, it's the same thing.

Problem with that is, Training using FD is an unintentional use of a mechanic. If the original devs new it would be such a long standing problem they would of developed it differently maybe. Pick Pocket is being used correctly there is no other use for it.

[azeth]

Problem with that is, Training using FD is an unintentional use of a mechanic. If the original devs new it would be such a long standing problem they would of developed it differently maybe. Pick Pocket is being used correctly there is no other use for it.


There's no other use for pickpocket other than taking $$ of engaged mobs? I think not, how bout the rogue epic? What about unengaged mobs?

[Darenenski]

Clearly only seeing it from one side as well..

What's a rogue supposed to do to get gems for jewelry upgrades? Are there typically groups around to assist in farming these materials? Will the 'other side' group up with the rogue to help him?

The status quo is forcing the rogues into this underhanded style of play.

Translate: Waaa waaa I made a group dependent class and expect to have all the perks of a solo one too by ripping others off and wasting their time.

Solution: Go roll a mage and farm things legit and hopefully you can transfer your spam pick pocketing skills into spam pet heal, pet heal.

[Ponden]

Maybe those Rogues that PP mobs are skilling up for their epic. I think you are the only person in this thread that is getting overly worked up over this issue.

[azeth]

TLDR:
The point of this all? How much did I usually make? Not a lot. Nothing you pickpocket is worth much and coin gets heavy fast. Try moving in stealth when you are encumbered.


I think you're considering the wrong pickpocketing situation when stating your opinion here. Granted, I'm someone that is against pickpocketing *anything (even if its 2 silver and words of absorption) on principle - however consider the Allizewsaur example.

So many HP that it is not viable to farm for raw platinum. However, it's drop rate on BDs/Diam/BlackSaph is decent enough to turn a couple hours farming into profit. If a rogue even once PP's a black saph from your Allize camp, you just lost 3-4 hours.

Maybe those Rogues that PP mobs are skilling up for their epic. I think you are the only person in this thread that is getting overly worked up over this issue.

What? Azeth is max PP skill from 2 hours of doing WFP guards. I would not go this route trying to justify pping engaged mobs.

[Dominick]

Maybe those Rogues that PP mobs are skilling up for their epic. I think you are the only person in this thread that is getting overly worked up over this issue.

I only ever did it to make dogs yell, "Stop thief!"

Then I collect the tips for my talking dog routine

[Noleafclover]

Rogues got the shaft. There's very little use for picking locks or disarming traps either. That's why you shouldn't play a rogue first character unless you're up for a challenge. And we all know this, it's no big secret.

Your choice to play a challenging class does not mean you can negate other players individual mob kills because you chose to play a class that is in some ways weaker, esp. in classic.

There is effectively no difference between pickpocketing engaged mobs and a KS, and you can only dodge this lack of distinction by shifting the argument.

....But I'm falling into the trap of taking this seriously. I'd like to refer you to my original post. Roleplay a wizard for a more intelligent argument.

[azeth]

There is effectively no difference between pickpocketing engaged mobs and a KS, and you can only dodge this lack of distinction by shifting the argument..

I have yet to see any response to this point over 11 pages. Also, Noleaf, no you're not taking it too seriously. Actually, it looks like the only people who are flaming over this are those who don't want to hear that what they're doing is wrong.

[Musetii]

I'm not flaming and I don't think its illegal. Pick your engagements...if there is a rogue around, find out where he is, quit ruining my immersion. I'm not a rogue, but this is a trademark skill. Limiting pickpocket? /slashwrists.

[azeth]

I'm not flaming and I don't think its illegal. Pick your engagements...if there is a rogue around, find out where he is, quit ruining my immersion. I'm not a rogue, but this is a trademark skill. Limiting pickpocket? /slashwrists.

look, there is no official policy so don't start cutting. my opinion is just my opinion, and really if you want to PP my mobs, or your groups mobs or whomever by all means.

Just don't expect to make many friends. I'm actually shocked at people claiming their guilds allow rogues to PP gems off hate/fear trash. This was a /guildremove offense on Rodcet Nife. We also had an in tact and heavily read black list, so perhaps I'm more adjusted to consequence for my actions having played a rogue as my main from 99-04.

[Dominick]

There is effectively no difference between pickpocketing engaged mobs and a KS, and you can only dodge this lack of distinction by shifting the argument.


There is a difference. Any loot thats worth anything is not pick pocketable. You get maybe a gem once in a while or a few PP.

Lets take the same issue with disarm. I can disarm anything as can a trained ranger. When they do that to an engaged mob and someone else picks up the weapon, is that a KS?

Hint: If a Rogue is coming in for a pick, root the mob. It will clobber him.

Here maybe this will help:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2kykkv3s9jY/SxlNiN0dhWI/AAAAAAAAAR0/alyqDHAojL4/s400/30.jpg

[azeth]

There is a difference. Any loot thats worth anything is not pick pocketable. You get maybe a gem once in a while or a few PP.

Black Sapphires run 4,000pp, Blue Diamonds 1500pp.

Also, "once in a while" if you're stationed at Allizewsaur means "everytime he spawns with a gem" due to the length of the fight for the farmer.

[Tiggles]

Black Sapphires run 4,000pp, Blue Diamonds 1500pp.

Also, "once in a while" if you're stationed at Allizewsaur means "everytime he spawns with a gem" due to the length of the fight for the farmer.

you have a rogue with your wife partner right?

If you could group with her rogue for a while and farm alliz and see how many gems she can fake "steal" from you versus how many that drop.

you will be shocked.

[azeth]

you have a rogue with your wife partner right?

If you could group with her rogue for a while and farm alliz and see how many gems she can fake "steal" from you versus how many that drop.

you will be shocked.

I won't be shocked. Every single gem on Allize's loot table will be pickpocketed with 100% guarantee before he dies (assuming the rogue is not caught and gets aggro).

There really is no arguement on that point, there's still the arguement for/against PPing, but yea on Allize every single gem will be PP'd.

Also, Meepo was my main, kashi was hers. I wanted a rogue, and she wanted my mage, so I took over Kashi's account and created Azeth on it for some mage PL.

[Ponden]

Still don't think Rogues are that notorious.

On a side note: Gynok dropped platinum and gold ring for me. Hurray for a 45 minute camp to finish Paw.

[Tiggles]

Still don't think Rogues are that notorious.

On a side note: Gynok dropped platinum and gold ring for me. Hurray for a 45 minute camp to finish Paw.


Grats!

[Noleafclover]

There is a difference. Any loot thats worth anything is not pick pocketable. You get maybe a gem once in a while or a few PP.

This is a distinction without a difference. OK so you're only KSing part of my mob. Excellent.

Yes. The ranger's stealing loot. I do feel bad for the poor guy though, and I'd prolly help him out the same way I would a newb. And his friends/guildies should help him out, because like the rogue, he's a low earner.

But anyway, you're trying to shift the argument again, to relative soloing power of many classes vs. rogues/rangers.

[Ponden]

If the whole server plays Mages, we would be in a better place.

[ryuut1]

I have yet to see any response to this point over 11 pages. Also, Noleaf, no you're not taking it too seriously. Actually, it looks like the only people who are flaming over this are those who don't want to hear that what they're doing is wrong.

lemme slurp down some morning joe and explain it to you.

i dont care, becuz i is roguer. why should i have to justify stealing? your morals are just stupid. explain the difference? im not KSing anyone's quest mob, or armor mob, or anything like that. i'm jacking a gem every once in a while. how about you just pay me 500pp for me to leave the zone for 3 hours?

[Noleafclover]

lemme slurp down some morning joe and explain it to you.

i dont care, becuz i is roguer. why should i have to justify stealing? your morals are just stupid. explain the difference? im not KSing anyone's quest mob, or armor mob, or anything like that. i'm jacking a gem every once in a while. how about you just pay me 500pp for me to leave the zone for 3 hours?

Nah, I'll train you 'cause I is a dark elfer.

[azeth]

lemme slurp down some morning joe and explain it to you.

i dont care, becuz i is roguer. why should i have to justify stealing? your morals are just stupid. explain the difference? im not KSing anyone's quest mob, or armor mob, or anything like that. i'm jacking a gem every once in a while. how about you just pay me 500pp for me to leave the zone for 3 hours?

Ryuut, originally I was responding only from having played a rogue main on live (without any sort of alt farm toon) - so really I am well aware of how little $ you make as a rogue. However, I never once jacked $$ or gems from my groups or raids, or people farming high value $$ targets.

[ryuut1]

go ahead, see how well it works. you can pay me 1k per 3 hours to just camp out.

besides, a death is worth a sapphire, or even a blue diamond

[azeth]

go ahead, see how well it works. you can pay me 1k per 3 hours to just camp out.

besides, a death is worth a sapphire, or even a blue diamond


Fyi Ryuut is Dyno in game should anyone be interested in who is ganking their gems.

[ryuut1]

Fyi Ryuut is Dyno in game should anyone be interested in who is ganking their gems.


oooo no

it's really just you.

[Ponden]

This should be relocated to R&F

[Noleafclover]

This should be relocated to R&F

It's really gettin there.

To Ryuut -

Not actually gonna train you mang, just mean your logic is fail. Should just go w/ "whatevah, I'll do what I want!" Cartman-style. You're pretty much there.

[ryuut1]

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/Rbless/BraveheartFunnyIrishmanscenes_0001.jpg

[Dominick]

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2008/12/23%20HAMSTER%20SHOES.jpg

[Messianic]

To recap:

Rogues KSing by stealing money/gems from engaged mobs is ok because they're roleplaying.

Some rogues complain about having to group for plat (except PP) in a largely group-dependent game just because some classes do not happen to be group dependent. They knew when they created a rogue they are group dependent, but still reserve the right to QQ. Therefore, stealing from engaged mobs (relatively risk-less) is okay, even though you're being a parasite. Remember, the rogue is just roleplaying. However, it wouldn't be roleplaying if the rogue was camping a mob and someone KSed them for it. That would clearly be wrong, not roleplaying.

Nearly all the rogues in this thread failed to see the distinction between PPing mobs and PPing engaged mobs. Fail.

Dyno seems to be a tool who is pretty bad at trolling and dumb enough to tell everyone the KS-PPing he's doing.

[ryuut1]

im a tool, but im rich bitch! *honk honk*

also, i see how you guys could be all mad. i just dont care. it's not an exploit, and it's classic. it's not in the PnP. so it's legit shit.

youre all just the man keeping me down!

[Musetii]

Activate PvP, and fight off rogues. Until then, stop QQing.




Thread is now closed.

[Dominick]

To recap:
Nearly all the rogues in this thread failed to see the distinction between PPing mobs and PPing engaged mobs. Fail.


There is no distinction, thats the point. Eventually someone is going to engage that mob and find it empty.

If a guy is engaging a mob, and can kill the mob, its a dick move. Even at that, what does he get? He gets 5pp and maybe a gem once in a great while.

The big QQ is that this is in server chat.

And to give this thread a reason for being:
http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funnypics/images/f/fat_lady_scared_cat-12299.jpg

[azeth]

If a guy is engaging a mob, and can kill the mob, its a dick move. Even at that, what does he get? He gets 5pp and maybe a gem once in a great while.

I don't think you are really grasping the situation. Allize *only drops gems for loot, sometimes no loot whatsoever. 1 single pickpocketed Blue Diamond (1.5k market) or Black Sapphire (4k market) is worth 1-3 hours time, to justify stealing this from a player who has claimed the camp is.. well unjustifiable.

Also, "once in a great while" in the Allize situation, again, means "every single time Allize spawns with loot" it gets stolen if Allize is being pickpocketed. I really ought to just back out of this thread though, I'm having as hard of a time seeing any perspective other than my own, as I'm sure the rest of you are who are disagreeing with me.

I actually think this boils down to a "carebear" dispute unfortunately. To be honest, I am a carebear in this situation solely because I personally cannot justifiably pickpocket loot from another person's claim. However, I would never /petition or R&F about it happening to me, it's just a courtesy..

[Dominick]

I don't think you are really grasping the situation. Allize *only drops gems for loot, sometimes no loot whatsoever. 1 single pickpocketed Blue Diamond or Black Sapphire is worth 1-3 hours time, to justify stealing this from a player who has claimed the camp is.. well unjustifiable.

Is there a guy on the camp waiting for you to engage if he is and you engage anyway then you are being stupid.

The easy solution is to root bomb and watch the rogue die.

e: If you are not camping him and he steals the loot then he is taking the chance. If he gets spotted, he is going to be hosed.

http://pics.livejournal.com/toddalcott/pic/000w0x8y/s320x240

[Autotune]

I find it funny that people bitch about a rogue stealing their gems and then tells them to roll a Mage/necro/solo class.

Why don't you roll a Rogue and level it up to pickpocket?

You're using your skills to farm, the rogue is using his.

It is not an exploit

It is classic

Stop bitching

Learn to play smarter, or roll a necro.

[purist]

Ryuut, originally I was responding only from having played a rogue main on live (without any sort of alt farm toon) - so really I am well aware of how little $ you make as a rogue. However, I never once jacked $$ or gems from my groups or raids, or people farming high value $$ targets.

Of course you never once jacked gems from your group or raids. Why would you when you already farmed 50k+ to twink your Rogue alt, and on top of that you have access to the farming resource like a Mage-Enchanter duo who probably have 80k+ more in the bank? Stop pretending like you're some kind of righteous man. You're enough of a douche to cry about a gem for 12 pages in a thread after admitting to twinking your Rogue in over 50k+ in farmed items off your Mage/Enchanter, petty and greedy much?

[Messianic]

There is no distinction, thats the point. Eventually someone is going to engage that mob and find it empty.

If nothing else, the distinction is who got to to the mob first - the rogue or the other player. You may argue that is a meaningless distinction - but someone blowing your mob up at 51% life and taking the loot just because they could and hey, "that's classic," would likewise be considered stealing.

If you're robbing HG's blind before people get to them, it's not much different than someone else killing those HG's before you got to them. If you're robbing them blind while they're killing the HG, it's worse than KSing because you don't even need to use your own resources like a KSer would.

Getting to the mob first is the distinction. Your logic is that it doesn't matter when the rogue pickpockets it - analogy - you're arguing that it doesn't matter who engages mobs first. Just because you engage it doesn't mean you have a right to kill it. Someone can do more damage than you, take the loot, and has committed no error against general server rules against KSing.


If engaging a mob doesn't mean you have the right to that mob (and the loot it carries) unless you zone/die/FD, then KSing is entirely legitimate.

I can therefore follow you around, killing any named mobs you engage because it doesn't matter that you got to the mob first, after all...

[Messianic]

Of course you never once jacked gems from your group or raids. Why would you when you already farmed 50k+ to twink your Rogue alt, and on top of that you have access to the farming resource like a Mage-Enchanter duo who probably have 80k+ more in the bank? Stop pretending like you're some kind of righteous man. You're enough of a douche to cry about a gem for 12 pages in a thread after admitting to twinking your Rogue in over 50k+ in farmed items off your Mage/Enchanter, petty and greedy much?

Yeah, he should be happy that some rogue possibly stole gems from a mob he camped for hours (using his toon as a meatshield while he did it) just because he already has a lot of money. If it's against mob-engage rules, it's theft. Theft isn't somehow "better" or "right" because you stole from someone who already has a lot of money.

Azeth didn't even start this thread. He just chimed in as someone with experience. You, on the other hand, just came to complain about other people being rich and not wanting things stolen from them (if indeed this is against server rules along the lines of mob-engage rules, which he is asking).

[azeth]

Of course you never once jacked gems from your group or raids. Why would you when you already farmed 50k+ to twink your Rogue alt, and on top of that you have access to the farming resource like a Mage-Enchanter duo who probably have 80k+ more in the bank? Stop pretending like you're some kind of righteous man. You're enough of a douche to cry about a gem for 12 pages in a thread after admitting to twinking your Rogue in over 50k+ in farmed items off your Mage/Enchanter, petty and greedy much?

Are you mad, or jealous? Or need a loan? I can do 9% for you up to 20k, 20-50 can drop it to 7% fixed. We'll look at terms and conditions later.

Also, should you decide to reread my post you've quoted you'll find I've identified that on live i played a rogue, without a farm alt (for the vast majority of my time).

[Anaiyah]

You seriously have to be full-retard to think there is a debate about this at all.

Its 100% obviously ridiculous to say its acceptable to pick a mob that is engaged with a player you are not grouped with. Any other 'opinion' is just wordplay bullshit.

[Messianic]

You seriously have to be full-retard to think there is a debate about this at all.

Its 100% obviously ridiculous to say its acceptable to pick a mob that is engaged with a player you are not grouped with. Any other 'opinion' is just wordplay bullshit.

[azeth]

You seriously have to be full-retard to think there is a debate about this at all.

Its 100% obviously ridiculous to say its acceptable to pick a mob that is engaged with a player you are not grouped with. Any other 'opinion' is just wordplay bullshit.

[Sarkov]

We have a play nice policy for a reason. There are a lot of things you *can* do that are *possible* with the game mechanics. Monks *can* FD train groups all day long and claim they are "only trying to impart the lesson of asceticism" or some other roleplay BS, but at the end of the day they're just being dicks.

In this thread, rogues are being dicks.

This is so obvious I can't believe we have an infinite page thread over it. Retarded.

Also, dicks.

[ryuut1]

Are you mad, or jealous? Or need a loan? I can do 9% for you up to 20k, 20-50 can drop it to 7% fixed. We'll look at terms and conditions later.

Also, should you decide to reread my post you've quoted you'll find I've identified that on live i played a rogue, without a farm alt (for the vast majority of my time).


THROW ME 50K AT 7% FIXED and you'll never see me on the island again

[ryuut1]

i found your section in the P99 library's PNP where this is all covered:

Q: Where can I deposit my tears?
A: As always your tears and crying of favoritism are important to us; for without you we couldn't possibly run things around there. You are the wind beneath my wings. Please direct your tears to the Petition/Exploit Forum or in extreme cases of hissy fits or conspiracy theories, Nilbog's Inbox.

[purist]

Are you mad, or jealous? Or need a loan? I can do 9% for you up to 20k, 20-50 can drop it to 7% fixed. We'll look at terms and conditions later.

Are you petty and vindictive? In the time you took QQing for 14 pages in this thread about the one gem that got away you could've farmed a few k. And actually, I would love a loan, thx. Make sure you text your wife to let her know first though.

[azeth]

Are you petty and vindictive? In the time you took QQing for 14 pages in this thread about the one gem that got away you could've farmed a few k. And actually, I would love a loan, thx. Make sure you text your wife to let her know first though.

the funniest part is, like Messianic identified a few up, is that not only did I not start this thread, but I haven't complained once about a situation where I've been pickpocketed.

Also, is it really that odd to text Kashi? We're in an office building, shes 17 floors down and I'm not having an EQ conversation over my recorded work phone.

[User]

So, like, guys ...it would be totally awesome if we could get an official word from a staff member on the issue ---not on the countless derailments of the origional issue, but on the origional issue itself: DOES OWNERSHIP OF A MOB ENTITLE OWNERSHIP OF THE LOOT SAID MOB CARRIES.

Please let us know ...so I can either park a rogue in hate and make bank at other's expense OR report such acts to the petition thread.

k, thanks.

[User]

Also,
You seriously have to be full-retard to think there is a debate about this at all.

Its 100% obviously ridiculous to say its acceptable to pick a mob that is engaged with a player you are not grouped with. Any other 'opinion' is just wordplay bullshit.

That is all.

[ryuut1]

well, if a GM says stop, i'd never do it again. but i checked out the library, and there's nothing on there about all this.

it's why you can't PP magical items, good folks.

[Anaiyah]

well, if a GM says stop, i'd never do it again. but i checked out the library, and there's nothing on there about all this.

it's why you can't PP magical items, good folks.

Never has there been a more apt reply:

WOW GUYS THATS A HARD CONCEPT BUT NO I'M TOO FUCKING SELFISH AND NEEDY AND I NEED TO FIND A WAY AROUND THE RULES TO MAKE MYSELF FEEL BETTER

[ryuut1]

coming from the person i DIDNT steal from, eh?

read up, i quoted the PnP for you naysayers.

[Autotune]

"Working as intended."

[User]

...i checked out the library, and there's nothing on there about all this...

That's the first place I looked, too. If it were covered in the pnp then this thread would not exist. ...Seems to me it would be a simple 1 sentence addendum to the rules either for or against this behavior.

The ONLY reason I can see for Staff members' reluctance to comment on this is the logistical nightmare they would have on their hands with all the petitions over minor infractions and witch hunts. But a great man once said, "We choose to [do these things] not because they are easy, but because they are hard."

[Anaiyah]

coming from the person i DIDNT steal from, eh?

read up, i quoted the PnP for you naysayers.

I don't give a f*** if you didn't do this to me personally, its the exact same issue no matter who the victim is.

Judging from your posts here Id have to assume the ONLY reason you didnt pick the mob was because i was temporarily in your guild...a situation that this thread and the officers treatment of it promptly resolved.

[ryuut1]

rofl who cares if youre with us or not now, more stuff for me on my island.

USER: I kind of agree with you, if the sentence is put in, you can trust I'd abide by the rules.

And JFK was talking about going to the moon, but i still liked the quote.

[Autotune]

I don't give a f*** if you didn't do this to me personally, its the exact same issue no matter who the victim is.

Judging from your posts here Id have to assume the ONLY reason you didnt pick the mob was because i was temporarily in your guild...a situation that this thread and the officers treatment of it promptly resolved.

the officers? you have a disagreement with 2 officers.

Me and Dyno. Though some of the others probably have the same opinion.

anyhow, peace out and wish ya the best of luck finding a more suitable guild :)

[azeth]

Hark, a true fiend!

fixt.

[ryuut1]

haha

youre just superb

[ryuut1]

and i love volcano tacos.

[Autotune]

and i love volcano tacos.

I'm sure we can all agree that we all love Volcano tacos and Lava Nachos.

[ryuut1]

peace has been made.

[Anaiyah]

I'm sure we can all agree that we all love Volcano tacos and Lava Nachos.

It just sucks when your nachos come, and some dude already took all your chips...luckily the cheese and meat are enchanted with preservation spells, and are thus tagged as magic items.

[Dominick]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1214/1403566202_bd8b9216c6.jpg

[zianlo1]

After reading this thread, I made a rogue specifically just to pickpocket from people's mobs while they fight. Im not going to justify my actions by saying its a skillset given to the class, I just want to fuck people over on the little bit of coin and gems I take from their group and raid =D

[Noleafclover]

You seriously have to be full-retard to think there is a debate about this at all.

Its 100% obviously ridiculous to say its acceptable to pick a mob that is engaged with a player you are not grouped with. Any other 'opinion' is just wordplay bullshit.

This. I still say they should roleplay wizards for a more intelligent argument, but I think they are actually roleplaying rogues IN this thread and flaming to be mischevious. I refuse to believe they believe what they're saying.

[Lagaidh]

I'm afraid if we keep being such babies about things that the devs will get sick of putting up with us and say "Ah fuck it."

/we'll do it live?

[Harrison]

If this was a pvp server it would be dead and empty.

[Hasbinbad]

After reading this thread, I made a rogue specifically just to pickpocket from people's mobs while they fight. Im not going to justify my actions by saying its a skillset given to the class, I just want to fuck people over on the little bit of coin and gems I take from their group and raid =D
Yeah..

I've never sat at alli and tried to pickpocket gems, but now that I see the lengths to which you all will whine about it, plan to see hasbinbad at a dino camp near you!

Coming Soon!

[ryuut1]

welcome to my island, hasbin!

[purist]

I'm sure we can all agree that we all love Volcano tacos and Lava Nachos.

Lava sauce: Great invention of the 21st century? Or greatest invention of the 21st century?

[Hasbinbad]

welcome to my island, hasbin!
I'm Irish too buddy!

http://images8.cpcache.com/product/tribal-st.+patrick%E2%80%99s+day-saint+patricks+day/109621728v5_225x225_Front.jpg

[Musetii]

Did not read.

Activate PvP, and fight off rogues. Until then, stop QQing.




Thread is now closed.

[Messianic]

Yeah..

I've never sat at alli and tried to pickpocket gems, but now that I see the lengths to which you all will whine about it, plan to see hasbinbad at a dino camp near you!

Coming Soon!

Interesting to see people whining about other peoples' "whining," when none of the people asking for clarification of engagement rules are actually whining - theyre just asking if basic mob-engage rules apply and explaining why they think the status quo isn't hunky-dory.

If you count the number of opposition rogue posts, they probably outnumber or equal the constructive posts from myself, Azeth, and User. I fail to see how asking for clarification of a rule is whining.

But no one assumed that any of the "OMG STOP WHINING" people are reasonable...

In other news, I hope all the rogues go to Alli's Island :) The mainland will be better off without you :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/TDINT10000/failboat.jpg

[ryuut1]

we'll just follow you guys wherever you go.

and there's been plenty of whining from you "constructive" types =P what an asshat.

[Gorgetrapper]

Dyno, you should post a screenshot of that mage who tried to dismiss their pet to kill you, but ended up getting themselves killed instead and leaving you not even with agro.

[User]

188 replies to the thread, none of which were by a staff member. I guess we can assume this means it is perfectly legal (and encouraged) by the staff of P99 to pickpocket mobs dry that belong to another player/group/raid.

See you all in Fear/Hate.

[Messianic]

we'll just follow you guys wherever you go.

and there's been plenty of whining from you "constructive" types =P what an asshat.

NO U

[Anaiyah]

This thread is seriously a contender for the stupidest shit I have ever read in my life.

[Sarkov]

Needs more
http://www.sarahpalinbook.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/sarah-palin-book-300x300.jpg

Also, this thread proves some people need to be tracked down IRL and punched in the dick.

[Anaiyah]

Needs more
http://www.sarahpalinbook.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/sarah-palin-book-300x300.jpg

Also, this thread proves some people need to be tracked down IRL and punched in the dick.

The tools in this thread are utterly dickless, I guarantee it.

[Sarkov]

But aren't we...? I see what you did there.

[ryuut1]

anaiyah y so srs

[Tygerwoody]

best thread on P1999 forum.

[Noleafclover]

Mechanics question - if pickpocket succeeds, no aggro?

[purist]

best thread on P1999 forum.

Tiger Tiger Woods y'all!

[Knightmare]

This thread embodies well why i loved Rallos Zek.

BUT BUT HES STEALING MAH LOOTS WITH HIS PICKPOCKETS BOO HOO FUCKING HOO

You sir, are the wind beneath my wings. Oh how I miss RZ :(

[Sarkov]

Seriously? You quoted something from page 1 on page 20?

...

It's almost as if you're saying the intervening 19 pages are not worth your time to read.

EDIT: 200th post in this thread! Celebrate!

[Daldolma]

188 replies to the thread, none of which were by a staff member. I guess we can assume this means it is perfectly legal (and encouraged) by the staff of P99 to pickpocket mobs dry that belong to another player/group/raid.

See you all in Fear/Hate.

Of course it is legal.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rogue

You're not a rogue if you're only stealing shit from your own mobs. That's retarded. And the difference between a rogue pick-pocketing an engaged mob vs. another class kill-stealing the mob is... the kill-stealing. Once a mob is engaged, anyone else killing the mob is kill-stealing. You have rights to it. But pick-pocketing? There are no rules protecting the loot table as your own, and there shouldn't be. It would make the pick-pocket ability worthless, when in reality, it is a defining ability of the rogue.

Two things: 1) pick-pocketing pops sneak/hide, which means you will be able to see a rogue pick-pocketing from your mobs. This follows all community-based policing. He's free to pick pocket your mobs, and you're free to call him a douche, tell your friends he's a douche, and blackball him. It's his risk to take. 2) if you really want to circumvent this issue, just stop killing. Keep the camp and quit killing Allizew until the rogue leaves. If he won't leave after 30 minutes of inactivity, he's probably there to piss you off more than he is to pick pocket Allizew. Either grief him back, work out why he's intentionally pissing you off, or just take your ball and go home.

My main is a rogue and I almost never pick pocket with any serious goal to make plat in mind, but it's definitely a good way to punish assholes, especially in OoT (Allizew or seafuries). You want to tag the seafury pulls me and my friend are duo'ing? That's cool, bra. I'll just pick-pocket them clean -- enjoy your kills. You want to try to snatch Allizew camp while my necro friend is LD, after you see him go LD? Again, that's cool bra. I'll just go ahead and take the gems. Outside of that, I basically never PP -- both because it's a douche move, and also because I don't want to be thought of as a douche. But that's the only thing that should stand in the way of a rogue using his rogue abilities.

[Musetii]

Of course it is legal.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rogue

You're not a rogue if you're only stealing shit from your own mobs. That's retarded.

My main is a rogue and I almost never pick pocket Outside of that, I basically never PP -- both because it's a douche move, and also because I don't want to be thought of as a douche.

Cool story brew

[azeth]

guys I've already won this thread. you can stop posting.

[redghosthunter]

But stealing from a freaking dragon? Gimme a break =P

Bilbo..... Smogg? Bilbo clearly let Smogg see him -After- Bilbo had pocketed :)

[ryuut1]

i believe fourthmeal won this thread.

[User]

i believe fourthmeal won this thread.

There you go thinking again. Nobody won anything in this thread; we all lost.

[Autotune]

There you go thinking again. Nobody won anything in this thread; we all lost.

idk, i'm pretty sure I won something from this thread. Gimme a sec while i go find my winnings

[azeth]

update: just checked, did not win anything from this thread.

[ryuut1]

i'm still giving it to fourthmeal and his crunchy/cheesy/double layers

[Eyry]

I heard a rogue getting in trouble for doing this in OOT this past weekend. Rogues beware...

[ryuut1]

i heard i was there this weekend when a GM came down, and nothing adverse happened at all.

[Musetii]

i heard that a GM is going to develop a new pick pocket skill that will be usable by all classes / races.

[Messianic]

Did anyone notice the tag on this post? lol

[Eyry]

i heard i was there this weekend when a GM came down, and nothing adverse happened at all.

I heard that you heard something other than what I heard...

[Messianic]

lol someone just added "azeth loses the thread!" as a tag...

At least this thread ended up being worth a lolz...