Faction and Necromancers

[Whatley]

Hi All,

So i have been reading up on Necromancers and how rolling one of them can alter your faction when you are a neutral race (i.e Erudites). One thing that I haven't been able to determine is if rolling something like a human necromancer or gnome necromancer will alter your faction negatively.

Thanks!

[mr_jon3s]

Yes. But really you wanna be an iksar necro anyway the regen is just too op.

[Clark]

Yes. But really you wanna be an iksar necro anyway the regen is just too op.

[Crawdad]

If you care about faction as a Necro, I'd suggest rolling Erudite or Human and not handing in your guild note... Gnomes probably have the same reputation, but I'm not positive.

Yes. But really you wanna be an iksar necro anyway the regen is just too op.
Iksar regen is great, but I think the question for Iksar vs DE/Human/Gnome/Erudite is "Where do I want to level?" moreso than "Regen >>> Anything else," which is more of an Min/Max'er point of view.

Rolling Iksar, you're going to have an amazing set of zones in Kunark, all right next to your home city which absolutely adores you. Off the continent, you're going to be hated without a ton of mind-numbing turn-ins, and have to waste A Lot of time running to the handful of vendors/bank(s) you can use. It all changes once you get your 34 Lich spell of course, but its still a pain in the butt to carry all those spells with you, especially once you get to bronze/fine steel dropping camps, and how wimpy all Necro races are.

For Anybody else, you're accepted in a surprising number of cities and vendors, will be able to repair any faction you want through normal leveling spots, and wont have a problem getting any of your spells.

I played an Erudite Necro (to 65) on live from Kunark to LDoN and have an Iksar Necro (28th) here. I had hoped to relive my favorite Old World camps and whatnot, but its honestly not worth it with how amazing Kunark is, and how cumbersome Iksars are in the Old World. In exchange though, I've gotten to experience low-level Kunark and will also get to enjoy killing Absolutely Everybody Else in a few more levels.

tldr; Roll Iksar and don't ever(until 34) leave Kunark. Roll anything else and go where you please. Play whatever race you like the most aesthetically.

EDIT: Its been a long time, but as an Erudite, you' should be able to go into pretty much every city so long as you avoid other caster and priest guilds. If you Are KoS, I don't believe you are Scowling with very many guards/guilds that matter by default. I can't speak for Human or Gnome, but I imagine its the same.

[baalzy]

If you care about faction as a Necro, I'd suggest rolling Erudite or Human and not handing in your guild note... Gnomes probably have the same reputation, but I'm not positive.


Iksar regen is great, but I think the question for Iksar vs DE/Human/Gnome/Erudite is "Where do I want to level?" moreso than "Regen >>> Anything else," which is more of an Min/Max'er point of view.

Rolling Iksar, you're going to have an amazing set of zones in Kunark, all right next to your home city which absolutely adores you. Off the continent, you're going to be hated without a ton of mind-numbing turn-ins, and have to waste A Lot of time running to the handful of vendors/bank(s) you can use. It all changes once you get your 34 Lich spell of course, but its still a pain in the butt to carry all those spells with you, especially once you get to bronze/fine steel dropping camps, and how wimpy all Necro races are.

For Anybody else, you're accepted in a surprising number of cities and vendors, will be able to repair any faction you want through normal leveling spots, and wont have a problem getting any of your spells.



It's actually not really that bad. You can bank in Freeport / Felwithe / Kelethin with just gather shadows and there are enough neutral vendors around that it also isn't a problem. You can always make a lvl 1 alt and drop-transfer weapons to sell and then buy gems to drop-transfer back. You won't be leaving kunark until level 20 anyways (kurns is too good to leave, set you up nearly for life for bone chips, and you'd prob wanna stay till 22 so you can train dodge before leaving). Then as you said, once you get to 34 CoB changes everything and makes life no hassle.

Iksar is just too good to pass up imo. Gnome is the only other choice because being able to see-through walls is a super powerful racial ability that none of the other races have (and gnomes have very little faction issues). CoS makes dark elf hide racial pointless.

[Kastro]

As an SK I have to say Hide is OP... if you Fd then hide... you can most of the time stand and cast Cos with no agro...

[Whatley]

If you care about faction as a Necro, I'd suggest rolling Erudite or Human and not handing in your guild note... Gnomes probably have the same reputation, but I'm not positive.


Iksar regen is great, but I think the question for Iksar vs DE/Human/Gnome/Erudite is "Where do I want to level?" moreso than "Regen >>> Anything else," which is more of an Min/Max'er point of view.

Rolling Iksar, you're going to have an amazing set of zones in Kunark, all right next to your home city which absolutely adores you. Off the continent, you're going to be hated without a ton of mind-numbing turn-ins, and have to waste A Lot of time running to the handful of vendors/bank(s) you can use. It all changes once you get your 34 Lich spell of course, but its still a pain in the butt to carry all those spells with you, especially once you get to bronze/fine steel dropping camps, and how wimpy all Necro races are.

For Anybody else, you're accepted in a surprising number of cities and vendors, will be able to repair any faction you want through normal leveling spots, and wont have a problem getting any of your spells.

I played an Erudite Necro (to 65) on live from Kunark to LDoN and have an Iksar Necro (28th) here. I had hoped to relive my favorite Old World camps and whatnot, but its honestly not worth it with how amazing Kunark is, and how cumbersome Iksars are in the Old World. In exchange though, I've gotten to experience low-level Kunark and will also get to enjoy killing Absolutely Everybody Else in a few more levels.

tldr; Roll Iksar and don't ever(until 34) leave Kunark. Roll anything else and go where you please. Play whatever race you like the most aesthetically.

EDIT: Its been a long time, but as an Erudite, you' should be able to go into pretty much every city so long as you avoid other caster and priest guilds. If you Are KoS, I don't believe you are Scowling with very many guards/guilds that matter by default. I can't speak for Human or Gnome, but I imagine its the same.

You mention things changing at 34 with the lich spell, what exactly does this help with/change aside from the mana tick?

[Whatley]

Another random off question to this, i know Iksar's make the best Necros, but does this hold true at max level raiding as well? I'd love to not be an Iksar, but if it will harm me raid wise then i'd rather bite the bullet now.

[lostclover]

Don't be an Iksar if you don't want to be one. Regen doesn't make up for hating the look and feel of your character.

[Whatley]

Don't be an Iksar if you don't want to be one. Regen doesn't make up for hating the look and feel of your character.

Yea, i hear that. But at the end of the day if being a race that looks slightly better causes me to gimp myself big time I'd choose rolling an Iksar. I guess the thing I always wonder is how much the regen thing matters at max level in a raiding scenario.

So basically if regen is OP during the leveling experience but isn't a major factor in raiding then I'd have no issue rolling a Erui or something else, but if that regen is going to give me a nice boost in raiding then I would rather bite the bullet.

[mr_jon3s]

Look at the list. http://wiki.project1999.com/Necromancer#Picking_the_right_race

Also raiding as a necro is just mana dumping and rezing when the raid wipes. Dots dont stack till velious ai believe.

[Uteunayr]

Okay, I restate this often, but here we go:

Faction problems are temporary. It can be repaired.

Where you level is a temporary problem. You can travel.

Access to vendors is tied to the above. It is temporary.

You know what isn't temporary? Regeneration.

Regeneration is so damn good. It really is. No, it doesn't just matter when leveling, it is so damn good in raiding. Do you know how nice it is to sit in Demi Lich and lose *nothing* because of Regrowth? Talk about mana efficiency. You get to dump a sick amount of mana independent of any healing, life tapping, or anything else that would drain the mana of a class with a heal. That lets them put the heals on other targets. Your regen helps deal with that first tick lost to a Shadowbond when you are patch healing in a raid in addition to mana dumping. When you're charming and take damage from a break, you'll recover faster without making the healers heal you specifically. Raiding as a necromancer is so much more than just mana dumping, and everything about a necromancer flows through your ability to easily and efficiently handle your health pool. Regen is the tits.

Necromancers are a FD class. As a FD class, generally, you're going to get out of tight situations a good bit of the time, whether it be at a raid, or in a solo, or in a group. During such a point, think back to when you FDed at 1%, and knew you couldn't stand due to see invis mobs, and low HP aggro? Imagine how long you'd have to sit there, FDed, to get your health back. I remember those moments on Uteunayr (my DE). I started to just cap out of them and waste 200pp and someone's time each time. With Sesser (Iksar)? I can control the situation so much easier.

Then realize that Iksar wait a lot shorter a time than you would, and would get out before many respawns. Most monks I have met carry around a Fungi tunic for that, and many other, situations. Iksar Necromancers are always wearing a Fungi.

Seriously, XP penalties are temporary. Faction issues are temporary. Regeneration is forever.

This is EverQuest. There's no reason to rush. This game is about the journey. Working around the faction is about as core to the journey of a necromancer as you get.

Want to level in Qeynos? Good to know: Qeynos Evil Guild loves Iksar (Amiable). They even have a bank in the evil guild itself.

Want to level near Freeport? Do the Bone Chips (Freeport) quest once, and you'll be able to vendor there, buy spells there, and all sorts of stuff..

Gypsies, druids... Oh, you're level 16 and want to bank? Invis up to a banker, and FD. You can bank anywhere while Feign Deathed.

The difficulty of being an Iksar in Antonica is way overblown. A little know how of the continent and the spots, and you can easily level in Antonica. I did, and have numerous times. It is not the trial by fire many like to make it out to be. If you want to get to where the entire continent is open to you, yes, it's a lot of faction work. But just base, fresh out of Cabilis, you can do a lot as an Iksar in Antonica if, like me, you hate Kunark until later levels.

There are ways around the problems of faction. There's no way around a lack of regen until Velious, and even then, the total regen you can gain from the items (17) isn't the 32 from Demi Lich when health regen would start to wane in value.

Plus, Iksar have lower base Int, their stats are more equally distributed, so you wont have as much wasted intelligence with Velious gear.

Honestly, go Iksar. Learn from my mistake. I rolled a Dark Elf, got to 60, realized how shitty it was in solo, groups, and in raids, and I rerolled to an Iksar. Then again, I value my output more than replicating my classic character (a DE Necro). If you put a lot of value on sentimental attachment to your classic toon, make your classic toon. But if you care about your efficiency, and getting the most out of your class, there is no reason to not go Iksar. The only argument I have ever heard that seems reasonable that isn't based on sentimental attachment to a race is that Gnomes get to tinker Stalking Probes which they can life tap to get back HP. Come Velious, just camp yourself some Holgresh Elder Beads, and now you have an unlimited source of stalking probes. However, nothing will replace looking through walls... So, Regen is forever, but so is being a voyeur. Lol.

/rant. By the way, this exact thing is the backdrop of my signature. I find this amusing.

[Uteunayr]

Are you sure? It is definitely possible that it is a problem with Bertoxxulous<->Other Deity faction.

Further, it is not a big faction hit. It is a small faction hit. The point is that Iksar Necromancers are so close to going from Dubious to Apprehensive with the Freeport Evil Guild, one turn in is all it takes to push the threshold into Apprehensive. It's not like a few bone chips later, you'd be indifferent, and then a few more turn ins, you'd be Amiable. It is a small hit, but there's a small faction difference between Iksar Necro of CT and Human Necro of Inny.

Edit: Answering my own question. Iksar Necro should be Dubious to both Freeport and Qeynos Evil. You can bank at the Qeynos Evil Guild even while Dubious. I am seeing it suggest about 140-160 bone chips to go from base Dubious to Apprehensive, but nothing necessarily saying that Iksar start at base line Dubious. Putting in a report.

[baalzy]

As an SK I have to say Hide is OP... if you Fd then hide... you can most of the time stand and cast Cos with no agro...

You can stand and instant-click CoS without agro easily without having to use hide...

Yea, i hear that. But at the end of the day if being a race that looks slightly better causes me to gimp myself big time I'd choose rolling an Iksar. I guess the thing I always wonder is how much the regen thing matters at max level in a raiding scenario.

So basically if regen is OP during the leveling experience but isn't a major factor in raiding then I'd have no issue rolling a Erui or something else, but if that regen is going to give me a nice boost in raiding then I would rather bite the bullet.

Depending on how hardcore you go, you can get around this. VP necro staff is mana-free lifetap DoT. That + Holgresh beads will make iksar regen much less powerful (although you can't summon an eye while maintaining a pet, so you'd always have to deal with that).

Gnome is the only non-iksar racial choice imo. See through walls is very useful and gnome faction isn't too bad. Tiny bit of hunting in CB gets you non-kos in kelethin (just make sure to use the window trick when banking, cause he'll still hate you). You can use the bandages quest in misty to make yourself loved by practically everyone in rivervale. Dark elves tolerate you enough (even if you hunt in CB). Freeport is relatively safe (need to use the zoom out trick to bank there too).

[Uteunayr]

Yeah, the racial modifier is sick, but the diety relations modifier between Bertox and Cazic may be really fucked up, and enough of a positive to counteract a lot of it. Bertox is an often forgotten god. Lol.

Either way, I did find sources that suggest at both locations, Iksar should be Dubious. It should take 140-160 bone chips to get to train and stuff at the Dismal Rage in FP, and nothing about the faction work needed to do Bloodsabers in Qeynos. One source did say that you should never, ever do a quest that gives negative Bloodsabers, which leads me to believe that an Iksar Necro will be base line minimum Dubious, and even one step out of line goes into Threateningly. But that is an assumption.

This is the bug thread I created with links to the 2002/2003 comments about Iksar down there: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168755

[Uteunayr]

Did you check the Freeport specific Bone Chip Quest? It wasn't listed as one of the Bone Chip Quests, but a part of a different quest line. I had to personally add it to the wiki page because it was not mentioned there or anywhere as a bone chip quest (http://wiki.project1999.com/Assist_the_Great_Xelha).

[Uteunayr]

Ahh okay. Good to know.

[Colgate]

yeah faction on this server overall feels insanely broken and nothing like live

something's totally fucked up when i play an iksar monk, erudin peacekeepers guild is scowling to me, i click AoN for illusion: skeleton, and they all become apprehensive

[Shinko]

gnome

the two best necros on the server are gnomes,

[Potus]

I seem to recall class not playing at all into faction in early EQ. Originally Necromancers could roll agnostic, and a lot necromancers effectively had no faction penalty.

There is definitely something off about faction on P99, I can't quite figure it out, but some merchants have really wonky faction (the dwarf merchant in OOT is a great example), and I've had merchants aggro on me all the time when I fight a guard.

[Whatley]

gnome

the two best necros on the server are gnomes,

So is Euri just an overall bad choice? It's how I really wanted to go but I've never reached end game in classic EQ (but its my goal), so i'm always worried about being gimp at max over a racial choice.

[Uteunayr]

The majority of end game players who are non-Iksar necromancers are primarily those that created their toons in classic, when you didn't have an Iksar option.

Erudite suffer from low stats. Low health, low vision, but really high int. Issue is, a lot of gear come Velious and even now is going to be stacked with int. Tobrin's Eyepatch, VS Gloves, Hand of the Reaper, pretty much any 10+ int main hand... There's a lot of ways to get Int, but not a lot of ways to get HP. And come Velious, the best ways to get HP will also have Int. An Erudite will hit 255 int so quickly, and all that excess int will go into the void. If they had a race with less starting int, but more health, dex for concentration checks, etc. they would get a greater benefit overall, and have the same as an Erudite (capped 255 int).

[Whatley]

The majority of end game players who are non-Iksar necromancers are primarily those that created their toons in classic, when you didn't have an Iksar option.

Erudite suffer from low stats. Low health, low vision, but really high int. Issue is, a lot of gear come Velious and even now is going to be stacked with int. Tobrin's Eyepatch, VS Gloves, Hand of the Reaper, pretty much any 10+ int main hand... There's a lot of ways to get Int, but not a lot of ways to get HP. And come Velious, the best ways to get HP will also have Int. An Erudite will hit 255 int so quickly, and all that excess int will go into the void. If they had a race with less starting int, but more health, dex for concentration checks, etc. they would get a greater benefit overall, and have the same as an Erudite (capped 255 int).

That actually explains a lot. So on that note, my friend is a Euri mage, should they have put all starting points into Sta instead of Int?

[Uteunayr]

That actually explains a lot. So on that note, my friend is a Euri mage, should they have put all starting points into Sta instead of Int?

I really can't say. I don't know mage items. But I am going to just guess maybe. (http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fpaQpyU_QiM/hqdefault.jpg) I'd personally just go Gnome for wall seeing and tinkering. Maybe a hide race like DE for instant invis, albeit an inconsistent one.

[Velerin]

Manapool really doesn't do a whole lot for mages for leveling. Raids it could help for endurance fights. I like hp and resists for more survivability. While leveling I was pretty much continuously 20-40% mana non stop killing low blues.

[webrunner5]

The problem with a Human or Gnome Necro is that yeah in a lot of places you can go Bank and use Venders, but in a lot of places, which it is really hard to tell where you will be KoS and the venders will not sell to you and you can't Bank there either.

If you roll a Iksar you KNOW you can't Bank or just walk up to a Vender and use them everywhere but your home city. But with Sneak, FD you can go to just about any Vender and sneak in and go to nearly every Bank. And who cares about faction. Hell you can kill anyone even Venders and who cares other than I would not do it in your home city. I found I died less on a Iksar Necro than I did on my Human one. I just was never sure what my faction was as I traveled around. I Know what it is on my Iksar. And like has been said the Re-gen is just hard to pass up at even the lowest level. It is double even then.

[Elmarnieh]

My human necro can bind at FV and stroll into the OT outpost.

Can't beat that. I go into neriak and freeport.

Can't beat that.

[Potus]

Faction is absolutely worthless. Once you free yourself of worrying you can exp in the most hilarious of places. Become KOS to everyone. It is the Necro way.

[Elmarnieh]

Faction means buying spells. I like spells.

I'm a lovable necromancer! Yay people like me!

[Whatley]

Faction is absolutely worthless. Once you free yourself of worrying you can exp in the most hilarious of places. Become KOS to everyone. It is the Necro way.

Ha I was actually thinking guards in various cities could be a fun way to level.

[webrunner5]

Ha I was actually thinking guards in various cities could be a fun way to level.

They are good Xp and good for plat. Most all of them have fine steel weapons at least. Just watch out for the guards at the gates or entrance to most zones. They usually have a shitpot full of HP and hit hard as hell. :p My Mage pets love to kill them. :)