Imbue spells should not be diety restricted on P99

[wycca]

Good news I hope for the die-hard crafters! Cultural is bad enough already, so this is one time that it being classic may mean something helpful. The lack of deity restriction was left in for a very long time, and if you scribed them before this patch, to this day on live, you can still imbue any deity.

Problem - Imbue spell scrolls should not be deity restricted on P99. The deity restriction on the spell scrolls was not patched on live until May 8, 2002.

Actual Patch Message - Source - http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020508.html

"- Characters can no longer scribe a scroll that they can't cast due to deity restrictions"

Detail from EQTraders - Source - http://file3.guildlaunch.net/193799/Old%20EQ%20recipes.pdf

"Characters can no longer scribe a scroll that they can't cast due to deity
restrictions (imbue gem spells were bugged for a while so anyone of the proper
level/class could scribe them, now you should be able to only scribe the spell for your deity)"

Solution - Remove deity restrictions from all imbue scrolls.

Items Needing to be Changed -
Scroll Name - Item #
Spell: Imbue Amber - 15885
Spell: Imbue Black Pearl - 15894
Spell: Imbue Black Sapphire - 15897
Spell: Imbue Diamond - 15895
Spell: Imbue Emerald - 15888
Spell: Imbue Fire Opal - 15899
Spell: Imbue Ivory - 15884
Spell: Imbue Jade - 15891
Spell: Imbue Opal -15798
Spell: Imbue Peridot - 15898
Spell: Imbue Plains Pebble - 15800
Spell: Imbue Rose Quartz - 15896
Spell: Imbue Ruby - 15887
Spell: Imbue Sapphire - 15886
Spell: Imbue Topaz - 15799

Item #'s only -
15798
15799
15800
15884
15885
15886
15887
15888
15891
15894
15895
15896
15897
15898
15899

PS - Despite the wording of the patch message, they left it so you could still cast any imbue spell scribed before the patch - source - http://www.eqcleric.com/archive/index.php/t-355.html - post by Parklyn - 05-05-2003, 06:49 PM - "Back in the day when these spells came out any cleric could memorize any imbue spell irregardless of diety. They "fixed" this bug. But if you memmed these spells in your spell book (before they fixed it) then you can cast any of those imbue spells! <wink> I did not know this at the time and just have my Tunare imbue spell for emerald's.

Knowing this is particularly helpfulf for those looking to have a gem imbued that does not have a high population of that diety cleric's on your server. Just ask if any cleric is able to imbue what you need they may have the spell memmed!"

[Daldaen]

Interesting.

The way I read it maybe you can only scribe it, but cannot cast it? But perhaps thats just the weird wording of those quotes.

[Vega]

Interesting.

The way I read it maybe you can only scribe it, but cannot cast it? But perhaps thats just the weird wording of those quotes.

I didn't read the PS at first either :)

But sadly it is only one post talking about what he heard, not what he actually tried. It would be interesting to try and find more evidence.

[Daldaen]

EQCaster's Realm 2001 (https://web.archive.org/web/20010708141136/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spelldescriptions.asp?Id=1434)

Description: This religious based spell creates a holy relic used in tradeskills to enhance the powers of items.
It is limited to a deity.

Prexus Worshipers Only

HIGH ELF CLERIC, LEVEL 29, By Nanadari kween (1/28/2001)

Cannot scribe the spell when I am not worshipping the required diety. Big Ooops.

https://web.archive.org/web/20001218081500/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spells.asp?Class=Cleric

I skimmed through 5-6 Imbue posts and they all share similar descriptions "Must be xxx diety"

I would tend to think this is a temporary bug maybe? Could use more evidence I suppose.

[wycca]

Bleh, was hoping to avoid linking it all!

There's alot of people who assumed they were actually deity restricted when it wasn't. So you'll find alot of misinformation posts by people who just assumed instead of tested. All of these links discuss the lack of restriction prior to the patch, and make no reference to it switching back and forth prior to that or that it was an introduced bug - no, they were always able to be scribed by any deity, because it appears that they lacked the ability to actually restrict it. It just wasn't well known historically that you could scribe this stuff - people just assumed.

Note - There is also a Mass Imbue line of spells that came later. They left these not deity restricted for like 20hrs, so it's important to know which line (in context) that any discussion you read about this stuff refers to.

Here's some more evidence in like 30min of searching -

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5021 - by Klairen - 03-01-2002, 05:22 PM - First of all, they'd have to make the deity specific spells actually deity specific. All those imbue spells with CLR on them can be scribed by any cleric, regardless of who you worship.

http://www.eqcleric.com/archive/index.php/t-355.html - by Dyschord - 07-11-2003, 12:04 PM - "I do have some of the original imbues that were also not diety restricted when they put them out, but later added the restriction. I can't mem those, but they are still in my spellbook. " - Note, not that it matters for P99, but there's other posts that state they are memable.

https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/mass-imbue-plains-pebble.44736/ - post #11 - ARCHIVED-Treeslayer, Feb 2, 2006 - "Unless they scribed them before the code was fixed to check deity."

http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?3630-Terrorantula-Terrorantulings-spawns - post # 8 - by Mileron - "Don't forget, too...

Prior to a change made in a patch early last summer, clerics were able to scribe Imbue spells for gems not of their deity.

So a Mith Marr cleric could very well have scribed Imbue Black Pearl. (as an example.)"

Also see posts #11

http://www.eqcleric.com/archive/index.php/t-6085.html - by Milletoux - 11-29-2003, 11:29 PM - "Very early on, you could scribe the spells for all deities, but they changed that so you can only scribe the ones for your own deity. However, if the spell was already scribed you could still use it."

http://www.eqcleric.com/archive/index.php/t-8366.html - by Pinzarn - 06-18-2004, 08:24 AM - For those lucky souls that scribed the spells before the deity restriction, they can imbue anything.

http://www.eqcleric.com/archive/index.php/t-7835.html - by Milletoux - 05-01-2004, 08:37 PM - You may hear of a few clerics -- myself included -- who are multi-deity imbuers. There are two ways this happened:

1. The cleric has been around forever and scribed all the single-use imbues before they were deity restricted.

http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/soearchive/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=49568 - by yinlaBB - Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:27 am - I know originally the priests could scribe and mem all the gem imbue spells that their classes could have as a deity.I made a mistake with my wizzy and she is Quellious and can still imbue the Fire Opals which are Sol Ro. - Note, there is some discussion further down specific to the Mass Imbue spells, which also were not deity restricted for a bit, but unlike the single cast Imbue's, this was for like 20hrs. This poster is referring to the original single target imbues (note includes wiz and cleric lack of deity restrictions).

http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-9286.html - by Delores Mulva - 09-03-2004, 04:02 PM - It is not fair that some people scribed Imbue spells before deity restrictions were put on them.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/archive/index.php?t-5056.html - by Balanar - 03-11-2002, 05:13 PM - I have 4 of the Imbue Spells scribed atm and I use them all. Have they fixed this or did I just get lucky?

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9626 - by Balanar again - 06-10-2002, 02:35 PM - Follower of Brell and was imbuein Emeralds just yesterday.

http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-320.html - by Aldane - 07-10-2003, 11:25 AM - There's a problem with that, Absor. Back when I was bringing up my druid, I was able to scribe both Imbue Plains Pebble and Imbue Emerald. Then, a patch made it so that the spells were unscribable unless you worshipped the proper diety. In that long ago patch message it mentioned that those that had scribed the imbues could continue to use them, but that new scribings would be diety restricted. So, with that said, I -- and many other older druids -- have been able to "normally cast" both imbues for quite a long time.

Since I have always been able to cast both imbues, will I be able to cast both mass imbues, or am I going to only be able to cast one of the mass imbues (which would suck, if I may be so blunt)?



So there you go.

[Daldaen]

Seems legit.

Make it so.

[Haynar]

I remember the change. I was not happy that I had not scribed them.

H

[Buellen]

Yep i to remember this change as i was not able to get the tuner imbue before it was changed grrrr.

[Daldaen]

Bump.

[Tameth]

I have invested platinums into this fix. bump.

[Velerin]

Hoping not to have to make an Erollisi Marr cleric to 29 just for gems.

[wycca]

Bump.

PS - Odd tidbit, apparently imbue solro spell also had mage on it at one time. No apparent benefit, so was removed. No real in-game impact, so didn't feel like linking the research on that one. Just seemed neat.

[wycca]

Bump. Imbue not deity restricted for 2015!

[-Catherin-]

make it so!

[ArumTP]

Imbued Jewelry combinations
Since imbued jewelry is restricted to being imbued and worn only by persons who
follow the proper deity, experimentation and reporting is sometimes a bit slow, and
there are still gaps in our information. The gem must be imbued by a healer of the
appropriate religion. However,any jeweler can combine the imbued gem with the
enchanted metal.

Right off that same EQ trader pdf doccument

[wycca]

Did you read post #1?

[Daldaen]

Bump. Imbue not deity restricted for 2015!

I approve of this. The dude has solid evidence.

[ArumTP]

Did you read post #1?

Yes, read the patch.

"Characters can no longer scribe a scroll that they can't cast due to deity restrictions."

Scribing and casting are different things. And again if you read the EQTC old website of the same era it refers in the same manner.

"The gem must be imbued by a healer of the appropriate religion."

The bug of the reads as such people were filling their spellbooks with spells they could not cast anyways.

[wycca]

Yes, read the patch.

"Characters can no longer scribe a scroll that they can't cast due to deity restrictions."

Scribing and casting are different things. And again if you read the EQTC old website of the same era it refers in the same manner.

"The gem must be imbued by a healer of the appropriate religion."

The bug of the reads as such people were filling their spellbooks with spells they could not cast anyways.

Then you didn't read the evidence links in post #1 or post #5 about what was actually going on. They still don't restrict casting due to deity restrictions to this day in EQ you know.

[Vega]

There is the possibility that the patch just changed the spells from a deity restriction to cast to a deity restriction to scribe. So some people who had already scribed got the best of both worlds. Which really wouldn't help us on p99.

Edit: Hmm, I'm not sure that theory goes with the March 2002 post you linked earlier.

[ArumTP]

Then you didn't read the evidence links in post #1 or post #5 about what was actually going on. They still don't restrict casting due to deity restrictions to this day in EQ you know.

Everything refers to scribing of the spell not the casting of the spell.

Vega brings up a good point of we don't know if it worked in the fashion of you could scribe but not cast, to a change of can't scribe but cast. Resulting in a odd subset of people that ended up multicasting.

Every single post is from 2002 and forward, that is PoP era. Velious is 2000.

This isn't sufficient evidence that the way we have it currently isn't working as intended, of correct deity to cast correct spell.

[wycca]

There's reference to casting in post #5 and other links, and there's also proof that Vega's theory is incorrect.

/shrug, it's there, not sure why you can't parse what people are saying and instead we're getting these posts.

[ArumTP]

[QUOTE=wycca;1634774]

"Characters can no longer scribe a scroll that they can't cast due to deity
restrictions (imbue gem spells were bugged for a while so anyone of the proper
level/class could scribe them, now you should be able to only scribe the spell for your deity)"

Your first post, it indicates we would be in the era that we could scribe anything but not cast all of it. The purpose was to align deity of the caster to the gem they would imbue.

A patch would come along that made it so you could not scribe spells of a deity that you were not. The patch likely made it so they likely removed the deity on cast, to a check on deity on scribe.

Multicasters were a fluke created by this patch that we will never get. I have yet to see any evidence 2000 era of multicasting.

[wycca]

Half feels like I'm being trolled at this point since it's already been posted, but here you go, including highlights and so such so they can't be missed (hint you're looking for keywords of "still" and "continue" which indicate a continuation of an existing mechanic, ie, casting and imbueing another deity's gem. You will never see anywhere an - "OMG! I could scribe it but couldn't cast it before, but now that the deity restrictions went in I can cast it omg!" - why? because that was never a thing)-

http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?3630-Terrorantula-Terrorantulings-spawns

Post #11 - "Clerics could scribe and imbue all Cleric imbue spells. As long as it was a Cleric imbue spell, deity did not matter. A recent past patch fixed this. Now you can only scribe your own deity specific imbue spell. But Clerics that had already scribed other deities imbue spells could in fact still use them."

http://www.eqcleric.com/archive/index.php/t-6085.html

2nd post by Miletoux - "Very early on, you could scribe the spells for all deities, but they changed that so you can only scribe the ones for your own deity. However, if the spell was already scribed you could still use it."

http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/soearchive/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=49568

Yinlabb - "I know originally the priests could scribe and mem all the gem imbue spells that their classes could have as a deity.I made a mistake with my wizzy and she is Quellious and can still imbue the Fire Opals which are Sol Ro."

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9626

Post #7 - "You can no longer scribe an Imbue: gem spell, if the gem does not match your own deity.

You can still cast those that you have written already, though."

http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-320.html

Aldane - "There's a problem with that, Absor. Back when I was bringing up my druid, I was able to scribe both Imbue Plains Pebble and Imbue Emerald. Then, a patch made it so that the spells were unscribable unless you worshipped the proper diety. In that long ago patch message it mentioned that those that had scribed the imbues could continue to use them, but that new scribings would be diety restricted. So, with that said, I -- and many other older druids -- have been able to "normally cast" both imbues for quite a long time.

Since I have always been able to cast both imbues, will I be able to cast both mass imbues, or am I going to only be able to cast one of the mass imbues (which would suck, if I may be so blunt)?"



Also, the entire mass imbue saga was an exact repeat of the regular imbue situation. I could dig up more posts about mass imbues, but basically, if you could scribe the spell, you could cast it. You still can. There's never been a deity based cast restriction, only a scribe restriction.

http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-320.html

Teaamilie - "Note: After one year of regretting not getting imbue pp (I am tunare druid) I have successfully scribed AND imbued a plains pebble. New mass spells aren't restricted."


Scribe restriction was added, mem/cast restriction was never a thing. Scribe restriction was added post-P99 timeline in Luclin...ergo P99 should not have deity restricted scribing on it.

PS - Patch messages were often unclear, and there is alot of classic rumor, gossip, and poor understanding of the game clouding up a bunch of posts. Sift through it because there's often evidence that rumor, gossip, and poor understanding is just that. This is just such a case.

[Daldaen]

Bump. So much classic that I keep remembering reading but not getting those fateful words posted...

WTB "Fixed Pending Update"

[Nirgon]

well... we ARE officially end of Kunark...

[Grombar]

Ok, so this is still broken. You should be able to scribe AND cast any imbue spell as long as your the correct class. It was only after the 2002 patch that prevented any new scribes of spells that were not your deity. I know this for a fact as I had a Mithanial Marr cleric that had Imbue Diamond, Star rose quarts and Sapphire in his spell book AND could cast them even after the patch that prevent any new spells added.

I always regretted not doing the running around and buying /scribing the other deity spells before they made the change.

[elwing]

too bad, it won't fix the issue that some god needs blue diamond, black sapphire and such... I'll never make or wear my Bertoxxulous items...

[Sorn]

Checked my cleric on live because I remember having more than just imbue emerald on her (in fact, could not remember any deity restrictions), and she has imbue plains pebble in her spellbook. I did not have any plains pebbles to test the spell on, but I do remember using it.

7231

(This particular character has a birthdate of June 2001 or something like that.)

[Daldaen]

Wow so classic. Wish I had known to do that on my Druid on live back then!

[-Catherin-]

Checked my cleric on live because I remember having more than just imbue emerald on her (in fact, could not remember any deity restrictions), and she has imbue plains pebble in her spellbook. I did not have any plains pebbles to test the spell on, but I do remember using it.

7231

(This particular character has a birthdate of June 2001 or something like that.)

Think this pretty much confirms it

[Sorn]

I also found Imbue Diamond in my spellbook the other day (I was disorganized as a teenager). On top of that, my bank held an Imbued Plains Pebble, so I was definitely using it.

Only reason I would've had any of the non-Tunare imbue spells was because someone asked me to imbue something for them for cultural.

[Sorn]

More research:

http://www.thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-3934.html

Posted at 07-02-2001, 07:23 AM

Karana - Plains Pebbles

The spell, Imbue Plains Pebble can be purchased at the Druid Ring in North Karana (Tak Whistler) and can only be cast by Karana worshiping priest classes (cleric, druid only). It is a 29th level Abjuration spell and costs 200 mana to cast.

I'm trying to find posts from before this date that describe the spell's function. At some point, the spells were not deity-specific to scribe. I will test the spells myself on live, provided I can get a plains pebble, to see if it can be cast by a non-Karana cleric.

[Sorn]

Just found this amazing gem of a page from Jan 15, 2001

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:D6gVQt6irU8J:magic-angels.tripod.com/Blacksmithing.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

GENERAL NOTES ON IMBUED ARMOR:

These are for race specific smithing recipes. The needed spells are available in the shaman or cleric guilds of the home cities of each race. Each race has a limited number of deities worshipped, and the spells for these deities alone are sold. The gem used with the spell and for the armor is specific for a deity, and will define who can wear the armor. It is not clear if gems other than the deities of the home city can be used. There is no discussion of this on any boards, and all imbued recipe lists include only the deities of the home city of the smith. Agnostics cannot wear imbued armor. All this is easy to forget.

No comment on deity restrictions for casting the spell.

Using Imbue spells: The jewel is picked up with the cursor, and then the spell is clicked on with the cursor.

^ usage notes - currently on p99 you do not need to pick up the gem before casting

Imbued ivory: vendor sells for 9pp when they have been sold it, otherwise cost is time camping ivory and payment of shaman. The spell is not expensive, available in shaman guild in Halas. You take plain ivory, hold one on cursor, and click on spell. It is transformed to imbued ivory.

Imbued jade: from gem dealers, closest one to Halas is the Gembox at Iron Forge Estates, North Qeynos, 4 pp, get shaman to imbue it for you.

^ No mention of what a shaman has to worship.

Side note: Northman imbued armor comes with a jade variety for Rallos Zek...???!! I didn't know that!

I also attempted to imbue a diamond on my cleric and succeeded. The deity restrictions are only on the scrolls on live. I just can't find the time this was fixed. My cleric was made August 24, 2001, 19:15:20 (and knowing how slow I level, it would have taken me a long time to reach 29 as well as acquire these three spells), so there were no deity restrictions during most of Velious, despite what that post from July 2001 I dug up said.

7277

(Yes, diamonds are so plentiful on live that people just sell them to vendors. Regular plains pebbles, on the other hand, I was unable to get.)

(PS: Don't ask me about the muffins. It's just something I do on EQ, okay.)
(PPS: Confession: I love the 'make all' option on the tradeskill containers, even though they're not classic. Muffins for days...mmm...or hot cross buns...well, anyway.)

[Sorn]

Well, I did finally find a comment referencing the fact that imbue spells were not deity restricted at one point in time.

7597

Source: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4716

The response to this comment is from 2003, asserting that the imbue spells ARE deity restricted, though the date of this change is still unclear.

[jejukin]

Just wanted to bump this thread, I was reading lots of comments online (allahkhazam, eqclerics, a couple others... all are already linked by the OP) indicating that the deity restriction wasn't enforced on live during the timeline that pertains to p99.

Wish this could get (un?) fixed and made classic. Have p99 staff ever commented? I didn't see any acknowledgement of this issue.

[loramin]

^ No mention of what a shaman has to worship.
This is likely because Barbarian Shaman have no choice of who they worship: they only have one possible deity, and that's the Tribunal.

Later on on the Sullon Zek server (only) they added Mithaniel Marr so that Barbarians could play for both the good and neutral teams, but that's not really relevant for classic.

[Senn]

bump