Best Class to compliment a Ench?

[Whatley]

Hello all,

I've been doing tons of research on the best duo for an enchanter and I keep coming up with Cleric then Sham, however I did hear rumors that a necro/mage or even double ench can work well. I'm really interested into hearing the strat and how those duo's work out, anyone ever try these?

[kruptcy]

Never duoed with a mage, however, necro is a good partner. Twitches should mana get low, added pet DPS, heals for when you take incidental damage, and the ability to ST your pet on charm breaks are all useful. Also, fear kiting is pretty woot.

I still prefer cleric 100x over the necro duo though.

[Whatley]

Never duoed with a mage, however, necro is a good partner. Twitches should mana get low, added pet DPS, heals for when you take incidental damage, and the ability to ST your pet on charm breaks are all useful. Also, fear kiting is pretty woot.

I still prefer cleric 100x over the necro duo though.

So is the cleric better then a shammy/druid? See the issue we face right now is that neither of us want to play a cleric but are open to almost anything else. Druid seems nice with the ports and sham appear to be beasts at solo/duo later on. Whats your take on that?

[Bboboo]

Ench/Cleric/Druid

[kruptcy]

Ench/Cleric/Druid

In my experience / opinion, here are the enchanter duo partner rankings from best to worst:

Cleric (by a lot) / Necro / Shaman / Enchanter (these 3 are a pretty tight race) / Druid (significantly lower) / (Mage?) / one thousand units of good-measurement lower: everything else.

[brecon]

Enchanter is one of the two best solo classes in the game, alongside Shaman. As a result, both classes can group with nearly anything and perform at least as well, if not better. For the enchanter specifically, if you are charming by breaking the pet before each kill to avoid the xp penalty, then simply having a second group member negates the xp penalty problem and allows you to charm a little differently.

The main things an Enchanter cannot do are (1) Heal, (2) DD, (3) Snare, (4) Tank. Healing is important for an enchanter to manage charm breaks. Clerics are great because they get the best ac/hp buffs and they get complete heal. So basically, duoing with a Cleric is really just charm soloing but safer, without the need to break your charm and finish kills.

Shamans are also great, since you will get better slows, and a shaman with clarity, regen and canni is just a mana machine. They can root the mobs that you've mezzed, providing more safety. Their heals and buffs are not as good as a clerics, but swill still help out. Plus, shamans get malo....tash + malo will definitely extend the life of your charms. Also, if the shaman slows instead of the enchanter, then they will take that beating on a root break.

Dual enchanter is two charm pets. Two aoe stunners, two mezzers, and no need to break charms again. Again though, it's just an enchanter soloing but twice the dps, and a little help in recharming. I like the combo idea.

Necro adds some diversity as noted above, but I'm not sure I like it as much as the others discussed. Necro mana regen tricks don't stack with clarity, and to be effective in this role a necro would need to lifetap, which is a pretty big aggro generator. Ideally you want your charm pet to keep aggro. But the necro dots are really great, so if you keep it rooted up and the necro dots (with a normal pet or a charm pet), you can mow down stuff. The heals to the enchanter are a great benefit to the 2x enchanter duo. Lastly, necro and enchanter can fear kite very effectively (enchanter fear is actually OP at earlier levels). Of cleric, necro, shaman, enchanter, only necro gets snare (although there is a clickly snare necklace that some shamans and I think clerics can get).

Druids are....well, they can port. That's a time saver. For everything else, Shaman > Druid on this one imo.

Mages are damage machines but add no utility. Enchanters are damage machines with a ton of utility.

The only other class I would consider a good enchanter duo idea that is really additive would be a Bard - but this is just because bards can do anything except direct heal. Fear kiting is mana free for a bard, so all the enchanter has to manage is the charm break. Bards can help CC, mez lock an enchanter pet on charm breaks, pull, and their HP regen song is huge and their mana song stacks with breeze/clarity. A bard can eventually chant kite in order to add some dps, but the main problem exists for other melee classes: if you get within melee range, the mob will attack you and not the charmed pet in most cases. I don't think root tanking solves that problem (though I could be wrong on that one). And without a healer, that's not ideal.

So, the wisdom you received sounds true to me. I think I would personally prefer to duo with a shaman than a cleric, simply because it allows you to divide responsibility and gets you access to the better slows and faster mana regen. A shaman who is just casting regen, tali, malo, slows, roots, and canni dance, with clarity, will probably never actually need to take a med break. This way, all the enchanter has to do is haste pet and keep it charmed, which can be sustained not indefinately, but for a long long time.

[Zadrian]

Ranger.

[kruptcy]

I think I would personally prefer to duo with a shaman than a cleric, simply because it allows you to divide responsibility and gets you access to the better slows and faster mana regen. A shaman who is just casting regen, tali, malo, slows, roots, and canni dance, with clarity, will probably never actually need to take a med break. This way, all the enchanter has to do is haste pet and keep it charmed, which can be sustained not indefinately, but for a long long time.

Cheal on a charmed pet is a game changer. Have taken on pulls of 6 - 8 dark blue enemies, including summoners, at once with myself at 57 and a cleric at 39. Shamans are great, but their slows are only marginally better than enchanters. Tali gives more hp, but no AC and no MR, and does not stack with our self only shielding line. Enchanters and clerics can both root, though I only use it to let my pet establish aggro at the beginning of a fight. With a shaman you would most likely cycle pets, which is additional mana to recast charm and haste on every new pet. Also, clerics can stun to interrupt casters and to rip aggro on freshly broken pets while you mezz them.

[bigsykedaddy]

Cleric /thread

[Llodd]

Necro adds some diversity as noted above, but I'm not sure I like it as much as the others discussed. Necro mana regen tricks don't stack with clarity, and to be effective in this role a necro would need to lifetap, which is a pretty big aggro generator. Ideally you want your charm pet to keep aggro.

Druids are....well, they can port. That's a time saver. For everything else, Shaman > Druid on this one imo.

Mages are damage machines but add no utility. Enchanters are damage machines with a ton of utility.



Just to add a few things:

Necro can FD off the agro. Druids get snare which as a charming chanter I loved. Mages get Malo which makes the charms last so much longer.

[buffmagnum]

Cleric

[Whatley]

Enchanter is one of the two best solo classes in the game, alongside Shaman. As a result, both classes can group with nearly anything and perform at least as well, if not better. For the enchanter specifically, if you are charming by breaking the pet before each kill to avoid the xp penalty, then simply having a second group member negates the xp penalty problem and allows you to charm a little differently.

The main things an Enchanter cannot do are (1) Heal, (2) DD, (3) Snare, (4) Tank. Healing is important for an enchanter to manage charm breaks. Clerics are great because they get the best ac/hp buffs and they get complete heal. So basically, duoing with a Cleric is really just charm soloing but safer, without the need to break your charm and finish kills.

Shamans are also great, since you will get better slows, and a shaman with clarity, regen and canni is just a mana machine. They can root the mobs that you've mezzed, providing more safety. Their heals and buffs are not as good as a clerics, but swill still help out. Plus, shamans get malo....tash + malo will definitely extend the life of your charms. Also, if the shaman slows instead of the enchanter, then they will take that beating on a root break.

Dual enchanter is two charm pets. Two aoe stunners, two mezzers, and no need to break charms again. Again though, it's just an enchanter soloing but twice the dps, and a little help in recharming. I like the combo idea.

Necro adds some diversity as noted above, but I'm not sure I like it as much as the others discussed. Necro mana regen tricks don't stack with clarity, and to be effective in this role a necro would need to lifetap, which is a pretty big aggro generator. Ideally you want your charm pet to keep aggro. But the necro dots are really great, so if you keep it rooted up and the necro dots (with a normal pet or a charm pet), you can mow down stuff. The heals to the enchanter are a great benefit to the 2x enchanter duo. Lastly, necro and enchanter can fear kite very effectively (enchanter fear is actually OP at earlier levels). Of cleric, necro, shaman, enchanter, only necro gets snare (although there is a clickly snare necklace that some shamans and I think clerics can get).

Druids are....well, they can port. That's a time saver. For everything else, Shaman > Druid on this one imo.

Mages are damage machines but add no utility. Enchanters are damage machines with a ton of utility.

The only other class I would consider a good enchanter duo idea that is really additive would be a Bard - but this is just because bards can do anything except direct heal. Fear kiting is mana free for a bard, so all the enchanter has to manage is the charm break. Bards can help CC, mez lock an enchanter pet on charm breaks, pull, and their HP regen song is huge and their mana song stacks with breeze/clarity. A bard can eventually chant kite in order to add some dps, but the main problem exists for other melee classes: if you get within melee range, the mob will attack you and not the charmed pet in most cases. I don't think root tanking solves that problem (though I could be wrong on that one). And without a healer, that's not ideal.

So, the wisdom you received sounds true to me. I think I would personally prefer to duo with a shaman than a cleric, simply because it allows you to divide responsibility and gets you access to the better slows and faster mana regen. A shaman who is just casting regen, tali, malo, slows, roots, and canni dance, with clarity, will probably never actually need to take a med break. This way, all the enchanter has to do is haste pet and keep it charmed, which can be sustained not indefinately, but for a long long time.

So one last question, why do some combos cycle pets while other (ench/ench) never break charm again? I believe we will be doing dual ench, trying to understand the strat behind it before we get started.

[kruptcy]

So one last question, why do some combos cycle pets while other (ench/ench) never break charm again? I believe we will be doing dual ench, trying to understand the strat behind it before we get started.

Enchanter x2 will still need to cycle pets when they get low. The only partner that removes that need is a cleric.

Edit: Strat should be, both tash and charm a pet, give it a torch and haste, pull an enemy, root and slow the enemy, let your pets kill it, repeat. Eventually your pets will get low and you can either heal them by mezzing and mem blurring or you can find a new pet and kill the old one at low hp for exp.

[Tuljin]

Druid/Enc is a lot better of a duo than people in this thread are letting on. Druids bring a lot more to the table than "just ports."

First of all, the ability to port/evac is an invaluable ability that cannot be quantified from a min/max perspective the same way the contributions from a Shaman or Cleric can. Especially if you are deep in high level dungeons doing some dangerous stuff. If you have to WC Cap out of somewhere, you have to make your way all the way back to the dungeon - which is a ton of time lost during which the XP bar could be moving.

This mobility is also very valuable if you are a leveling duo and you want to be able to travel quickly and easily. Saved time = more XP, which again is something that cannot be easily calculated in a spreadsheet.

Obviously any dumbass who can cast CH can be considered a "better" duo partner, on paper. How many Cleric duo partners (or group members for that matter) actually cast stun when a pet breaks to make sure that his Enc buddy can safely recharm with much less nail biting?

Snare is a very valuable dungeon skill, especially vs. casters, and its highly underrated to p99 players in general, mainly due to the fact that the classes that get a bona fide snare (Dru/Wiz) have a bad rap because of the nubs that play them and don't understand the EQ 101 basics of mob behavior/fleeing. The last 20% of hp is free damage where the snared caster mob is no longer a threat, vs. a rooted caster mob that is still casting and attacking when its low on HP. Also, mobs don't flee while snared, which prevents many potential problems.

Furthermore, its a great idea to snare a weaponized/hasted pet so that when he breaks he doesn't fly to his master and proceed to rip him open a new orifice. This extra time when charm breaks saves a ton of HP/stress in the long run.

Shaman has the same healing ability as a Druid (except for Torpor obviously) and doesn't offer a ton more than the Druid in terms of buffs etc. Because the Enc can already slow, a second slow is really unnecessary, especially considering the fact that a duo partner in the first place is mostly unnecessary.

The DS that the Druid gets turns out to be a significant addition to DPS, and the Druid also has powerful elemental nukes that are a welcome addition to the duo.

If your buddy doesn't want to roll a Cleric, Shaman or Druid are both pretty on-par as far as a duoing partner is concerned. The fact that the Shaman can solo cash camps at lvl 60 and a Druid can't is an issue that doesn't apply to the question of what makes a good Enc duo partner.

[kruptcy]

Especially if you are deep in high level dungeons doing some dangerous stuff. If you have to WC Cap out of somewhere, you have to make your way all the way back to the dungeon - which is a ton of time lost during which the XP bar could be moving.

Gate?

Obviously any dumbass who can cast CH can be considered a "better" duo partner, on paper. How many Cleric duo partners (or group members for that matter) actually cast stun when a pet breaks to make sure that his Enc buddy can safely recharm with much less nail biting?

Sort of assumed he was holding player skill constant, of course you can have an exceptionally played druid be better than a terrible cleric.

Snare is a very valuable dungeon skill.

Agreed, which is why any cleric in an enchanter + cleric partnership starting from level 1 should be a dark elf Innoruuk worshipper.


The DS that the Druid gets turns out to be a significant addition to DPS

This is legitimately true, druid DS on a pet is significant, especially if you dont slow the mob and do quick pet cycling -- this however can be very strenuous on enchanter mana if you are holding down a large camp.

[Hailto]

Personally I think Shaman is the best duo for Ench. Shaman slow + torpor is all you need. If you need CH you're doing it wrong.

[kruptcy]

Personally I think Shaman is the best duo for Ench. Shaman slow + torpor is all you need. If you need CH you're doing it wrong.

Not to diminish the extra 5% slow on max shaman slow vs max enchanter slow, but I don't see how that 5% additional slow and Torpor out-does Cheal, HP buffs that are in a different league from shaman hp buffs, and stuns for pet breaks. Like you said, if you *need* cheal you are doing it wrong, but the question wasn't "Adequate class to compliment a Ench?", it was *best* class to complement a Ench.

[koros]

Shaman also has malo, which is pretty big.

Still, in most situations I'd think a cleric wins.

[Wrench]

With a shaman you would most likely cycle pets, which is additional mana to recast charm and haste on every new pet

^ doesnt know how to reset heal pets

[kruptcy]

Shaman also has malo, which is pretty big.

Yeah, I agree it is huge.

[kruptcy]

^ doesnt know how to reset heal pets

^ reset healing a pet from 10% hp takes more than a minute and a half.

Edit: you also have to expend the mana to recharm...

[Wrench]

^ reset healing a pet from 10% hp takes more than a minute and a half.

Edit: you also have to expend the mana to recharm...

really gonna argue mana to recharm?

youll make that mana back plus for less breaks from malo and not having to slow

have you even duo'd with a shaman? how often do you think you have to reset heal?

[kruptcy]

have you even duo'd with a shaman? how often do you think you have to reset heal?

Not that often, but we are discussing best, just very good partners. And yes, I have duoed with a shaman, have you duoed with a cleric?

[Wrench]

Not that often, but we are discussing best, just very good partners. And yes, I have duoed with a shaman, have you duoed with a cleric?

i have

if my partner is an idiot, i pref cleric

if theyre active and competent, i pref sham

i would never categorize it as "cleric (by a lot)"

[kruptcy]

i have

if my partner is an idiot, i pref cleric

if theyre active and competent, i pref sham

i would never categorize it as "cleric (by a lot)"

I guess it wouldn't be out of the question for you to have grouped with better shaman players than me, I should qualify my statements by saying in my experience or in my opinion I reckon. It's almost a moot point also, as both duos make most non-raid content trivial.

[Hailto]

Not to diminish the extra 5% slow on max shaman slow vs max enchanter slow, but I don't see how that 5% additional slow and Torpor out-does Cheal, HP buffs that are in a different league from shaman hp buffs, and stuns for pet breaks. Like you said, if you *need* cheal you are doing it wrong, but the question wasn't "Adequate class to compliment a Ench?", it was *best* class to complement a Ench.

You're forgetting malo as well, which is extremely important for pet charming.

So what we're saying here is that you can take CH off the table cause its not necessary if you know what you're doing. Then you can add shaman slows which a better and frees up more Ench mana, you can also add malo which is hugely important. Cleric has stuns at that point, which are nice but not necessary as ench can stun fine themselves. HP buffs are better with cleric there is no argument there, but if you're properly slowing and debuffing mobs you don't really need them.

[iruinedyourday]

Cleric/enchanter would be the most valuable all the way to 60+. As all you need to do anything that you cant duo as those two, would be to add a Monk to your group and you can comfortably (after they maybe *cough* nerf monk/sham king because of that *cough* thread over there) trio the King. And honestly cleric, monk enchanter is one more person to roll on fungi's but a lot more chill than doing it duo :)

I do believe ench/ench is amazing though.. if you go ench/ench the two of you can camp anything you want from lvl 1-55+ but youll start having trouble with like guardian wurms or fungi king..

You can just melt a ton of mobs with that much enchanter. Breaking charms nuking each others pets, stunning hasted broken charms while your friend mezs.. and most of all.. AFK BREAKS! With 2 enchanters, you can say "brb bio" and your friend can mez your pet if it breaks! Without that, there is some clever trickery you have to do to be able to get up and afk while you have a pet. ( I would watch this ench/ench 1-60 Twitch Stream heh )

Tough call, but in the long run, ench/cleric will allow you the most freedom, while ench/ench will allow you both the ability to solo when the other is not around, and probably (once you learn the routine) get you faster XP. ( though yall gonna die a bunch so be ready for that :) )

PS if you go enchanter cleric, make sure your cleric always has your pet targeted ready to stun it during charm break, so you can weaponise, haste, haste mask your pet for maximum carnage ;D