Exp modifyer swap

[psway]

I read a bunch of threads on here talking about how a lot of the game is concentrated in a few zones.

What about taking the existing exp modifiers and having them swap around randomly say once a month or something? Sure people would find them but it would bring everyone out into the world again.

Im pretty sure, but may be wrong, that this began happening in velious or luclin anyways. Seems like I would logon to my allakhazam account and check out what zones had now become "hotzones"

[Thulack]

Hotzones were started in 2006 so way way past our timeline. Not gonna happen. People could play in these other zones if they wanted but they dont not just because the xp isnt great.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Also, people play in these zones because they're easy.

Hot zones in places like najena, ct or paw is only going to encourage power levelling sessions.

[psway]

I think you're right about hotzones.

But we do know that its infancy started in velious, with the same patch that removed exp penalties.

It seems they did this manually until the point they decided to make it random automation.

"Zone Experience

The first and perhaps easiest to explain change that we are making to the experience system is the modification of what we call the "Zone Experience Multiplier", or 'ZEM'. Currently, every creature in game of a given level yields a fixed amount of "Base Experience" (experience before it is allocated to group members). That base experience is then multiplied by the ZEM which is set to a value in correlation with the risk in a particular zone compared with the reward; at least, that is the goal.

Recently we evaluated many underutilized dungeons and considered reasons why they might be underutilized. Some people suggested that proximity of bind locations plays a part, and as such we are considering adding more binding locations to the game. We of course will not allow everyone to bind on the doorstep of a dungeon, but these changes should hopefully reduce the potential run for a melee class. While additional binding locations probably will not be in the next patch, we did want to discuss our thoughts on the matter.

Another suggestion, one that probably has the most merit, is that some dungeons are too risky given everything concerned. The natural conclusion is that we should increase the reward in order to offset the added risk. Our contention is that most people would rather be grouping and fighting their way through a dungeon because it's more fun, but feel "forced" to sit outdoors and camp zero-risk single spawns because it is safer and thus more efficient. While that statement might be true in an ideal world, it usually results in crowding in these popular outdoor zones (for example, Lake of Ill Omen or Oasis). The crowding in these zones really results in less efficient progress than one could make in a dungeon given a good group, but is still SAFE, at least ensuring that one will not have to tolerate "going backwards".

We can increase the reward of a particular dungeon in two fashions: We can either put in good loot, or we can change the ZEM. The problem with increasing the quality or quantity of loot is that if the loot is good enough, it's more likely to draw people far above the desired level range for the dungeon, making it some place that appropriately leveled folk choose to avoid. The second problem with the ever-increasing quality of loot is inflation: as good loot becomes more widely available, its value and the prestige value from owning it declines.

In this case, we decided that the most appropriate action for several underutilized dungeons would be to increase the ZEM; that is, increase the amount of experience that everyone gets when adventuring in the zone.

As of the next patch, you will receive additional experience (per kill) in the following zones:



Droga increased by 12%
Nurga increased by 12%
Solusek's Eye (SolA) increased by 13%
Najena increased by 13%
Befallen increased by 13%
Paw increased by 13%
Permafrost increased by 13%
Kaesora increased by 18%
Qeynos Catacombs increased by 20%
Runnyeye increased by 20%
Kerra Ridge increased by 20%
The Hole increased by 25% "

[Ravager]

I think something like this should be implemented. Even though it's not classic, it would offer a classic feel, since in classic the unused zones were still populated due to 2-3k server populations and constant influx of new players not knowing everything there is to know about the game.

I would even go further and make the exp mods permanent in zones like Nurga, Najena, Paw, Cazic, Runnyeye and the Hole. Probably not going to happen though.

[Ravager]

Also, people play in these zones because they're easy.

Hot zones in places like najena, ct or paw is only going to encourage power levelling sessions.

This is probably true too. I think the only thing that would really spread people out more is the completely non-classic answer of redistributing the loot to balance it more between all of the dungeons, which won't happen.

[psway]

I wonder if this server will ever get past ignorant and blind responses such as this one.

So, in our so very accurate classic timeline (with Kunark being on its third year), we all should be subjected to bloated and the same leveling zones until the end of the server's life?

Why would it be a bad thing for the staff to NOT announce which zones are the hotzones, or even WHEN they switch them? Why would that be a bad thing?

Would it be so horrible if Unrest was a nice bonus this couple weeks, and all of the sudden with no notice or warning, Oasis is riding the bonus? Is there any legitimate reason why players who don't want to go to other places, shouldn't experience their zone of choice receiving a slight bump and possible influx of players?

Oh the horror, the tragedy, the thought of having rotating ZEMs that would actually cause the population to think and not just go Lowbie > Mistmoore > CoM > Seb, whatever the track is.

What a stupid idea to actually give players a reason to move around and explore the entire game. It's a god damn good thing SOE didn't think of this until 2006, amrite?


This is kind of what I thought, random swaps at random intervals. You wouldnt know where to go, which is a classic sentiment.

Furthermore as the patch notes I posted earlier, shows this problem is classic and showed they tinkered with it for the same desired result. Those notes are from January 2001.

[Thulack]

There are zones in EQ that originally had the modifier. They then added more zones that had mods in that patch. Took them 5 years before they started adding hotzones thats rotated. Can see the list here:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/eq:hotzones


Also need to check and make sure those zones dont have that xp mod on p99 cause it wasnt patched in til after velious release. Will get Dald on that.

[Thulack]

I wonder if this server will ever get past ignorant and blind responses such as this one.

So, in our so very accurate classic timeline (with Kunark being on its third year), we all should be subjected to bloated and the same leveling zones until the end of the server's life?

Why would it be a bad thing for the staff to NOT announce which zones are the hotzones, or even WHEN they switch them? Why would that be a bad thing?

Would it be so horrible if Unrest was a nice bonus this couple weeks, and all of the sudden with no notice or warning, Oasis is riding the bonus? Is there any legitimate reason why players who don't want to go to other places, shouldn't experience their zone of choice receiving a slight bump and possible influx of players?

Oh the horror, the tragedy, the thought of having rotating ZEMs that would actually cause the population to think and not just go Lowbie > Mistmoore > CoM > Seb, whatever the track is.

What a stupid idea to actually give players a reason to move around and explore the entire game. It's a god damn good thing SOE didn't think of this until 2006, amrite?

People play here cause they want a classic experience. Deal with it.

[loramin]

People play here cause they want a classic experience. Deal with it.

Huh, that's kind of a funny statement just because some of the ZEMs here aren't classic. From the wiki (http://wiki.project1999.com/Recommended_Levels_and_ZEM_List):

In the old days of live EQ the server sent the actual ZEM values, which were recorded by studious players. These values were used as a basis for the EQEmu numbers, and so are in place on most stock EQEmu servers. These numbers were never known to have changed over the history of classic EQ live. However, the following important caveat applies:

Warning! The devs of p1999 have stated that they will not publicly release the current ZEM list (in the spirit of classic EQ).
The "stock" values given here, which may be representative as a whole, have definitely been changed in some zones.

In other words, the devs have already modified the ZEMs from their classic values to non-classic ones. So there would be nothing unusual about them varying them again from time to time ... unless they started doing it with any kind of hot zone-style frequency.

[Oleris]

I support this idea, but hope they wouldn't tell us which zones get the bonus xp.

[psway]

People play here cause they want a classic experience. Deal with it.
Exactly why this is being suggested. The experience here is not classic.


I suspect that the ZEMS were tweaked throughout the existence of the game, secretly, but I have yet to find proof of this. They officially introduced Hot Zones/Hot Spots in 2004 as "Hot Spots"

April 28 2004 patch

"Hot Spots
Try out the new Hot Spot zones which give a boost to Experience while adventuring in them, in a similar manner to
Paludal Caverns. The current Hot Spots are:

- The Castle of Mistmoore (20th to 30th level)
- The Lair of the Splitpaw (35th to 45th level)
- Dulak's Harbor (40th to 45th level)
- The Tower of Frozen Shadow (30th to 35th level)
- The Gulf of Gunthak (35th to 40th level)
- Hate's Fury (55th to 60th level)
- The Crypt of Nadox (50th to 55th level)
- The Torgiran Mines (45th to 50th level)

These Hot Spot zones are generally aimed at characters level 20 to 51. The Hot Spot zones will shift from time to
time, so watch for messages giving clues as to where the new ones may be."

[indiscriminate_hater]

Bring back original kedge zem

[Scrooge]

Sounds like a great idea, and it wouldn't be the first perk on this server being "out of time and place," I think it'd have a really positive effect on this server's booming population.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Thank you for posting the unfortunate majority of the depth of intellect of the forumquest goers here, you're an absolute moron if you think that not having random and changing ZEMs to force players to think and move around is even remotely less classic than what we have here. Your previous post was a gem as well.

Abort yourself

[Glenzig]

I think it would be a cool idea to try. But, I'm not sure how much actual effect it would have on expanding the variety of zones for LFG. There are already certain zones that have very noticeably awesome ZEMs that are largely left empty. People will still take an Ogre, Troll, or Iksar all the way to Gfay or Blackburrow and ride those zones til their mid teens and never step foot in a much more easily accessible and much higher ZEM zone like Befallen.
Thats just one example, there are more.

[Lojik]

Just have a rotating bonus each day/week/whatever based on the # of NPCs killed there that time period: the fewer the NPCs that are slain, the higher the bonus. Maybe we'd actually see people in Beholders maze, Runnyeye, Kerra Ridge, Nurga, etc. Chardok PLers might go out of business tho.

[Clark]

Not classic. :|

[Widan]

Exactly why this is being suggested. The experience here is not classic.


I suspect that the ZEMS were tweaked throughout the existence of the game, secretly, but I have yet to find proof of this. They officially introduced Hot Zones/Hot Spots in 2004 as "Hot Spots"

April 28 2004 patch

"Hot Spots
Try out the new Hot Spot zones which give a boost to Experience while adventuring in them, in a similar manner to
Paludal Caverns. The current Hot Spots are:

- The Castle of Mistmoore (20th to 30th level)
- The Lair of the Splitpaw (35th to 45th level)
- Dulak's Harbor (40th to 45th level)
- The Tower of Frozen Shadow (30th to 35th level)
- The Gulf of Gunthak (35th to 40th level)
- Hate's Fury (55th to 60th level)
- The Crypt of Nadox (50th to 55th level)
- The Torgiran Mines (45th to 50th level)

These Hot Spot zones are generally aimed at characters level 20 to 51. The Hot Spot zones will shift from time to
time, so watch for messages giving clues as to where the new ones may be."

Actually it looks like we are right about at this point in the timeline since the server is 5 years old. So it would in fact be classic.

[Thulack]

Thank you for posting the unfortunate majority of the depth of intellect of the forumquest goers here, you're an absolute moron if you think that not having random and changing ZEMs to force players to think and move around is even remotely less classic than what we have here. Your previous post was a gem as well.



If you really think there weren't ZEMs before Velious, you really have no understanding of how EQ worked, at all. Just because something wasn't stated or acknowledged directly by SOE or the development team, doesn't mean it wasn't there before or after it was even mentioned. There were numerous mechanics and entities of EQ that got swept out of the game without a thought or mention. I wouldn't be surprised if ZEMs were specific to each server, and were able to be changed on a server to server basis, well before Velious. I'm not going to go digging through posts from 1999-2001 to show that there were discrepancies between this level 21 mob in ZoneA and that level 21 mob in ZoneB, the fact is they're out there and that EQ has always been that way. Just because they actually announced it and started using it as a feature instead of another line of code, should have absolutely no influence on whether or not the staff here wants to decide to make the server more exciting and everchanging (pun intended), or leave it the same leveling stream until Velious hits and then maybe one or two zones will change. Hooray for no variety!!!

Anyone who wants to play EQ in the days where people didn't know if they could kill this mob or that mob, or what lay around the corner of the next room, needs to invest their time and effort in a fucking time machine, because that's the only way you're ever going to achieve that. We (90% of the playerbase here, and 100% of the playerbase that has access to google, so 100% of the playerbase) have all the facts and information about the "classic" game we're playing. There's nothing classic about that. However, introducing different zones with different exp modifiers all the time and anytime, would absolutely introduce a classic element to the server. If you want the same 5 zones to group in for your 1-60 experience, have at it, because that's all that is going on for P99.


Thats fine. Your not going to get random Hotzones though no matter how much you keep posting. So keep wasting your time.

[Champion_Standing]

The ZEMs we have are already "not classic" fyi. MM is way higher than on live...I wonder why they did that...maybe to give that level range another viable option to level even though it wasn't completely classic?

Dungeon ZEM should be normalized across the board, forget hotzones, just make all level appropriate content actually worth killing.

[Captiv8]

The ZEMs we have are already "not classic" fyi. MM is way higher than on live...I wonder why they did that...maybe to give that level range another viable option to level even though it wasn't completely classic?

Dungeon ZEM should be normalized across the board, forget hotzones, just make all level appropriate content actually worth killing.

This. Normalize it as a whole and then maybe people will spread out

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. There is an enormous discrepancy in difficulty between the normal zones versus underused ones.

Most people are afraid of doing something hard which is the more common barrier to people using those zones.

[Thulack]

This. Normalize it as a whole and then maybe people will spread out

they wouldnt though. People don't goto CT cause the xp sucks. they don't go there cause there are bunch of casters. People don't go to alot of spots for this exact reason because casters are beasts here. Maybe if resist system was like it was on live it wouldnt be that way. Also MM was great Xp on live and always full. I leveled my monk from 18-30 there back in 2000 in a few days.

[Daldaen]

This. Normalize it as a whole and then maybe people will spread out

What Thulack said.

Dalnir, Permafrost, SplitPaw and Cazic Thule aren't left alone cause of ZEMs, they are left because the casters make those zones blow.

What would be REALLY interesting, is a revisioning of ZEMs and class/race penalties based on challenge of zone and power of race/class.

Dalnir, Perma and CT would get huge bumps, easy zones like Unrest/Crushbone/MM would get cut drastically.

Hybrids (except bard) would all warrant their penalty removal. Rogues/Monks/Clerics/Enchanters/Shamans would all warrant bigger penalties. Humans would deserve an EXP bonus, Halflings would have theirs removed, Iksars/Trolls would get a bit larger penalty, Ogres would get a larger penalty.

If all that happens you may see people in all zones and maybe less would go for the power classes and more on the multi-purpose ones.

[Swish]

Hybrids (except bard) would all warrant their penalty removal. Rogues/Monks/Clerics/Enchanters/Shamans would all warrant bigger penalties.

http://media.tumblr.com/b50ad2520d29fce737ef0753584a508b/tumblr_inline_mkxp06Bs4v1qz4rgp.gif

This is why players don't get to make decisions.

Why do rogues need bigger penalties? Very little solo capability in the classic sense. You wanna penalty the shit out of a new starter's rogue with no epic? lol. Keep on with MQquest Daldaen, I trust the devs to keep it as close to classic as is feasible.

[Thulack]

http://media.tumblr.com/b50ad2520d29fce737ef0753584a508b/tumblr_inline_mkxp06Bs4v1qz4rgp.gif

This is why players don't get to make decisions.

Why do rogues need bigger penalties? Very little solo capability in the classic sense. You wanna penalty the shit out of a new starter's rogue with no epic? lol. Keep on with MQquest Daldaen, I trust the devs to keep it as close to classic as is feasible.

you realize he was using it as a silly example of what EQ would turn into with OP suggestions. Dald doesnt want any of those things.

[Swish]

you realize he was using it as a silly example of what EQ would turn into with OP suggestions. Dald doesnt want any of those things.

Unless its the new forum meta to say one thing, mean the opposite and appear serious, he had me ;)

[Daldaen]

Was just using examples of the most over-played classes due to their power in group/raid and high-end situations.

Rogue's inability to solo does not detract from the fact that they are the single best DPS class in both a group and raid situation.

They require no mana, they can DPS indefinitely, they have solid aggro avoidance built into evade, etc.

That being said, I don't like non-classic features, nor do most who play here (big part of why I and others don't play on red). So I don't want to see any of those things implemented. Just would be fun to muse what zones merit the highest ZEM based on difficulty and classes/races that merit the highest penalty based on power/desirability at high end grouping/raid levels.

[forensic]

re constructing the game for the sake of the 'high end' is to erase the existence of all the people who don't raid and dont like high end repetitiveness

EQs design is obviously deeply flawed. when you say you want to play 'classic' you're saying you want to play a flawed and broken game.

if you try to fix EQ and make it sensible and well-designed you would end up with something that is nowhere close to Classic, because Classic is NOT sensible and well designed

There is an ISSUE: Players don't use many very fun zones such Dalnir, Paw, CT.

But the FAULT does not actually lie with game design. The fault lies with the psychology of the people who play this kind of game. Most people who play EQ have some kind of pathology that makes them exceptionally boring, dull people. Even when they're in a fantasy world of dragons and wizards they want to grind away at a machine in a very repetitive manner in order to "receive" something. They feel they are receiving something.

They're either somehow fooled by a fairly simple illusion, or they enjoy the repetition itself.

I think for some people they really do just believe on an emotional level that pixels are worth accumulating. For others they enjoy the boredom and repetition in the way that autistic kids enjoy rocking back and forth.

Anyway there is nothing that can be done from a game design perspective to make these dullards into adventurers. If you raised Dalnir's ZEM to the point where it was mandatory to camp Dalnir to have a competitive XP rate, these people would find a way to turn Dalnir into a boring campfest grindfest slog anyway. They would either do the content at a level that is high enough to be boring, or insist on groups that are strong enough so the content can be trivial. Anti-caster clickies and classes would become mandatory and the whole thing would be made routine.

Unrest is fun when you crawl it with a level appropriate group. It becomes boring when the whole place is on farm mode by twinks and people buffed with L50+ buffs and so on.

No amount of game design issue will solve the fundamental problem: this game selects for people who are extremely dull and enjoy repetitive simple tasks.

Imagine how great all these players would be on the assembly lines of Henry Ford. They'd be perfect employees and would actually LOVE their job.

[psway]

I just want to clarify. The intent of my suggestion is not some kind of quality of life improvement. But to achieve a classic Everquest experience. While the difficulty of mobs, bind points, city faction, and merchants among many other things; certainly plays into people's choice on where they level. ZEMS seem to come first and foremost, in my experience here.

I personally don't think the ZEMS were static, but I cannot prove this. What I do know is having the stock data feels more like an exploit than a classic experience.

I am interested if anyone has any data, or where I can obtain data that might lend to the idea, or prove, that ZEMS were static.

We do know that the original developers and producers of the game did not like people streamlining through a few zones. They combated it, with likely much more success than here.

[Swish]

If it were me I'd have kept the ZEMs a private thing, by now everyone knows whats good and where to be.

Also, I've made faster levels in Lake of Ill Omen (worst XP modifier in the game?) than I have in Mistmoore sat around waiting for repops <3

[veejur]

Updated ZEMs is a great idea. Classic or not, would be nice to see folks gear up resists to do some of these harder zones if the reward were worth it. Thanks for the suggestion OP, though I doubt they will implement it.

[Doil_Boil]

What's "not-classic" is the fact that none of these zones are utilized. The overcrowding on live led to a lot more venturing into these zones, merely because there wasn't exp available elsewhere.

[myriverse]

Many of these zones weren't used very much on Live, either. Dats classic.

[Doil_Boil]

I recall CT being fully camped. There was almost always a group in Paw, as well. Runnyeye, Najena, etc. there were often groups available.

[Glenzig]

I recall CT being fully camped. There was almost always a group in Paw, as well. Runnyeye, Najena, etc. there were often groups available.

There is a huge flaw in making an argument like that though. Every server was different. Split Paw was well camped on Cazic Thule back in the day, but Runnyeye and Najena were pretty much ghost towns as far as I remember. I'm sure there were servers where it was the opposite. A lot of peoples classic experience was different based on the server you were on, and we only have two servers here to recreate it on. Something like this will never be truly classic because there are too many variables.

[sykotic]

This would be an amazing thing to implement. ZEMs are not accurate anyway so who cares, lets randomize!