Outdoor Line of Sight check

[Daldaen]

This is something that has bothered me for some time. I just am having trouble finding some evidence for it. I'll search more but if others have some feel free to post it up.

But basically the situation is this:


Indoor zones require you have line of sight to begin and end most all detrimental spells.
Outdoor zones did not require you meet a line of sight check beginning or end


The bold currently isn't working on P99 as it did in classic.

This is why Unrest was especially dangerous, where hags would nuke you through the floor.

Also why things like trees, hills or small buildings/walls/houses did not prevent spell casting. You could go behind a guard tower or merchant house and aggro the mob by casting a root, snare, fear, DoT, nuke... Whatever, without actually having line of sight. Or much more importantly, if you are casting on a mob and it is just cresting a hill, your spell won't be interrupted because he is still behind that hill.

All that mattered in an outdoor zone was your range to target.

[Daldaen]

Allakhazam 2001 - Captain Rottgrime (OT) (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=4222&p=1#comments)

3. here is how we pulled him. we had 2 51 mages and a lvl 5 necro... it was simple, necro walked in targeted him, and walked outside the wall. waited till night then cast on him through/over the wall.

Pretty sure OT wall blocks casting for example cause LoS check on P99, when it should not check LoS due to outdoor zone.

[Daldaen]

There we go! This:

Druids Grove 2003 (http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-304.html)

View Full Forums : Line of Sight nerf in last patch

CountessKrak
07-12-2003, 06:05 PM
This is just an AWFUL nerf. It almost makes the game unplayable for me. It seems that they sneaked in a nerf regarding line of sight on spell casting that I am sure was intended to prevent exploiting. Unfortunately it doesn't work and makes playing a living Hell for me. The intent was to keep people from casting at mobs that are over a hill. The problem is their definition of a "hill". I can stand in melee range of a mob and try to cast and it says I cannot see the target. DUH! If it is close enough for me to hit, how can i not see it to cast on it?! Sheesh. The problem is that it considers any intervening elevation to be a "hill" even if that elevation is only an inch high so any seam in the ground is considered a hill and you cant cast. You have to be able to see the mobs toes or it wont let you cast. This is patently absurd. Basically it is equivalent to tripping over a yard line while running for a touchdown. I havent seen anything posted on this. Am I the only one who casts spells any more?

Xitix
07-13-2003, 03:02 AM
Any little bump between you and a mob can block LoS it seems just like dungeon LOS has allways been. The advantage to having LoS however is hopefully mobs respect it and might stop agro'ing through walls which is a problem in a lot of POP outdoor zones that are dungeon'ish. As Tils said report the locations but it's pretty much along zone walls that have bumpy hills that the problem is at it's worse currently.

Firemynd
07-13-2003, 03:34 AM
Well, to give an example ...
Prior to the last patch, whenever we were working up the sw tower of BoT, I could always harmony the giants in a room then back out of the room and cast 'burst of flame' (ceramic band) to pull. The one time we've done that tower since the patch, I had to stay inside each room to pull because line-of-sight is now required for burst of flame, ensnare, etc.

~Firemynd

There's a lot more in this post but basically:

Pre-2003, line of sight was NOT required in outdoor zones unless it was a Mage bolt style spell.

Hills, trees and walls should NOT prevent spell casting and give a "you cannot see your target" in outdoor zones EVER in this server's timeline. This is why walling an AOE dragon in an outdoor zone didn't help.

[Daldaen]

Bump!

[Haynar]

Pretty sure some of the LoS checks are hard coded in the client.

There are some LoS checks that need changed I think.

I need a summary of when there should be checks. Start of cast vs end of cast. Indoor. Outdoor. PvE. And PvP.

Get me a summary, for all the cases. I will get it reviewed. Confirmed. Then make it so.

H

[Daldaen]

Pretty sure some of the LoS checks are hard coded in the client.

There are some LoS checks that need changed I think.

I need a summary of when there should be checks. Start of cast vs end of cast. Indoor. Outdoor. PvE. And PvP.

Get me a summary, for all the cases. I will get it reviewed. Confirmed. Then make it so.

H

Indoor: LoS required to begin and end a cast.
Outdoor: LoS not required. Only range to target required.

Projectiles such as throwing weapons or magician bolts require LoS to begin, and along their path they cannot contact any geometry (wall, hill, etc.) otherwise they will not make contact with their target.

The main take away is that if there is a hill, and (imagine a 2D scenario) I'm on the left side, crest of the hill in the middle, and the mob is on the right side, that hill should not prevent Casting in an outdoor zone. Nor should walls, trees, ruins or any other sorts of obstructions.

----------/\
---------/..\
Druid--/....\--Mob

I should be able to cast on that mob, and he on me, if we are within range of each other.

[Daldaen]

EQClerics 2000 (http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6214&highlight=Line+sight)

Post
It be d'pendin' whether we be indoors 'r outdoors. Outdoors we kin be over th' hill 'r b'hind th' tree 'r anyplace we be choosin'. Indoors 'r undergroun' we be needin' t' be able t' see 'em.

This dinnae be makin' much sense t' me. Th' power fer me spells be comin' from Brell Serilis. 'E should be able t' see 'em no matter where they be runnin' t' unnergroun'.

Harbron Shieldwall
Priest of Brell Serilis
Initiate of the 30th Circle
Master Brewer
Povar server


EQClerics 2002 (http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10935&highlight=Line+sight+outdoor)

Hiding casters behind cubbies does nothing since line of sight is not effected by geometry in outdoor zones. A thing that might help is that he is slowable. However, he often dispells himself so you need to recast slow often, however, that might be enough change in damage to make him end up dying

[evilkorn]

This dinnae be makin' much sense t' me.

The least you could have done is translate for us first.

[Daldaen]

The least you could have done is translate for us first.

It depends whether we are indoors or outdoors. Outdoors we can be over the hill or behind the tree or anywhere you like. Indoors or underground we need to be able to see them.

Incoherent rambling about how indoors shouldn't require LoS cause his God is Brell Serilis.

I'm gonna certified stamp that post "Classic as Fuck". Classic mechanic, roleplaying and excessive use of apostrophes while roleplaying. I bet that was posted from a dial up connection too.

[kaev]

I'm gonna certified stamp that post "Classic as Fuck". Classic mechanic, roleplaying and excessive use of apostrophes while roleplaying. I bet that was posted from a dial up connection too.

Tin cans and string feller-me-lad, tin cans and string. None o' this fancypants newfangled "modem" crap.

[Treats]

Changes were made to Line of Sight on Live here:

Line of Sight Changes:
For spells that require Line of Sight (LoS), the LoS check is now at the beginning of the spellcast, not the end.
Spells that require but do not have of LoS will now fail immediately.
Harmful spells require LoS.
Most Beneficial spells still do not require LoS.
Bind Sight type spells do not require LoS.
Any beneficial spell containing a Cancel Magic component requires LoS.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020904.html

[Byrjun]

Been thinking about this for years. I remember there being no LOS required in outdoor zones (except for bolts) but I had no proof to offer besides anecdotal evidence.

[Daldaen]

Been thinking about this for years. I remember there being no LOS required in outdoor zones (except for bolts) but I had no proof to offer besides anecdotal evidence.

Gonna bump this.

This is how I remember it and how people comment on it before the LoS patch in PoP. Should be able to cast on mobs inside of houses and behind walls if you're in an outdoor zone.

Bolts and ranged items still require LoS and no collisions with geometry.

[BarackObooma]

This works in some cases and not in others.

I pull hags in Unrest (outdoor zone) with a bow and run out of LOS. If she casts before I get out of line of site, her spell will hit me even if I'm out of line of site. If I get out of line of site before she starts casting, she can't cast and has to chase me until I am in LOS. Are you saying she should be able to cast on me after I'm out of LOS?

Also in Unrest, from fireplace, I go to hag room or hand or bar and target a mob. I have a druid or ranger cast harmony and it works even though they are in a different room out of line of site.

What isn't working:
Gornit in OOT. You cannot cast, shoot arrows or anything to pull him unless you get down in the water (actually under water).
Burnt Wood Staff - you cast it and if a mob goes out of LOS after it's cast but before it's hit the mob, it's not hitting the mob. It's saying mob is out of sight. This happens a lot in OOT with all the little molehills. It should follow.

[Crom]

It depends whether we are indoors or outdoors. Outdoors we can be over the hill or behind the tree or anywhere you like. Indoors or underground we need to be able to see them.

Incoherent rambling about how indoors shouldn't require LoS cause his God is Brell Serilis.

I'm gonna certified stamp that post "Classic as Fuck". Classic mechanic, roleplaying and excessive use of apostrophes while roleplaying. I bet that was posted from a dial up connection too.

Hate to be the one to say this Dald, but in that Eqcleric post from 2000 that you used, you can see two of the clerics wondering whats up with this LOS on every nuke.
(funny that you picked that thread, one of the clerics in that thread is me :) being upset about the LOS changes on our dd spells )

[Daldaen]

Gonna bump this. Still don't think LoS was required for detrimental spells in zones flagged outdoor. Only Bolt type spells should require LoS.

Currently trees, buildings and even God damn hills are preventing us from casting spells.