TLDR Brainstorming Red99's future and why Red is not Blue

[Stasis01]

I feel as though we are at 200 population now, there is interest in the box from newer players that see our community growing and see that there is a lot of fun to be had on PVP, plus a lot of old timers are returning to enter the end game now that it isn't completely cockblocked for an RMT scheme.

That being said I feel that our community is lacking in some key areas that would really be able to push us into the 500+ consistent player range. Some of these are -

- Economy, both lack of items and lack of plat circulating - essentially no economy.

- Twinks locking down hot spot EXP areas, thus working against our group EXP bonus and forcing them into griefing areas.

- Lack of access to PVP - we have PVP around KC which is the understood area to look for PVP, but it is over nothing, and is usually for no motive other than the PVP and therefore gets boring quickly, and has no depth to it.

- Lack of support classes for both leveling and end game camps.

- Lack of independent guilds that can operate with fewer numbers, and even fewer main support classes that are mostly going to go to one of the major guilds.

I believe if we allow 1 box it would allow for all of these things to improve, at the cost of very little.

Red is very different than Blue - Red would benefit greatly from having a 2nd box LEGIT.

Let me be very clear about this - the people that want to box are boxing, I am no rat, and will point no fingers on either side, but believe me this runs rampant among higher end players that use it for many functions - and I don't mean for PVP benefit, I mean for support classes, ports, buffs, leveling and end game content.

By allowing boxing on Red you allow independence in the form of mobility for PVP/camps, leveling in areas that are not overrun by twink griefers hoping to find other players to gain EXP bonus with plus allows for support classes for newer guilds that want to stay independent but can't get the required enchs/clerics to do that content.

Right now we don't have enough players, don't have enough support classes, and don't have enough of a community atmosphere to really get this ball rolling, therefore I am hoping GM's would consider this.

PS I am now in the "top" guild, have a PD robe and 6 level 60's with VP keys and BIS gear, and really gain nothing from boxing other than having more people playing, more camps being camped, more items and plat circulating, and more fun overall.

No one plays red to be part of this great community, and to work with the other players here - it's just not blue.

[Stasis01]

I would also like to add that I leveled 50-60 boxing Gaanon an Ogre sham, and Bamzal a Troll warrior on TZ on live during Kunark.

It. Is. Classic.

[heartbrand]

I think variance is what we need

[Gaffin 7.0]

I think variance is what we need

[Stasis01]

I think variance is what we need

I'm waiting to see if a new guild will become Nihilum, it's still too early to tell - but it's still a sound idea to prevent 1 guild from taking all, forever.

Maybe the thrill of keeping all targets down is over now though? We'll see.

[SamwiseRed]

Meh people already 2 box now. What do you think would happen if 2 boxing became legal? Do you really think they would stop at 2? Call it a slippery slope if you want but I firmly agree it'll lead to people abusing it.

Instead make friends. Sure it's convenient to do everything yourself but I don't think that was the classic vision.

[heartbrand]

There already is a new Nihilum, it's called Azrael.

[Stasis01]

It's been two weeks, Nihilum did it for 3 years. Burn out and time invested might take Azrael out after a month, in a couple months if it's the same I'd agree.

But Trakanon was up for 3 days? Naggy was up for days, VP was up for a few days etc.

I don't necessarily agree with you.

[SamwiseRed]

This also puts anyone who doesn't like boxing like myself at a major disadvantage thus you create a population less friendly to casuals than it already is.

[Stasis01]

Or is Trak still up hmmm. Did Holo do it last night? I don't think we did.

[Colgate]

there was once a time where a majority of the people in azrael refused to log on early sunday morning repop days, and those who did talked about how ridiculous it was that nihilum wanted to raid at that hour

then there was a time where azrael seemed to have no problem getting 27+ people on sunday morning when it was guaranteed that they'd be going to a pixel buffet

[heartbrand]

Meh people already 2 box now. What do you think would happen if 2 boxing became legal? Do you really think they would stop at 2? Call it a slippery slope if you want but I firmly agree it'll lead to people abusing it.

Instead make friends. Sure it's convenient to do everything yourself but I don't think that was the classic vision.

I think of all the arguments against boxing, the "make friends" one drives me up the wall more than any other. What the fuck does this even mean? If you are some guy on the interwebs who found out about p99, logged on to r99, you would log into a zone that has a 99.9% chance of having you as the sole player in it, as well as all the connecting zones. You probably have about 4-6 people TOTAL on the server who you could even get exp with by grouping, though they are probably far away. OOC is spamming ridiculous shit at you, and when you finally do find a group, you're both melees or healers and have no insert: Tank / CC / Healer, so you can't do shit. You could be Ryan Seacrest and still have no one to play with.

[Stasis01]

This also puts anyone who doesn't like boxing like myself at a major disadvantage thus you create a population less friendly to casuals than it already is.

How so? That's a big claim.

You don't play here, you don't PVP here, you post on the forums - I can't follow this logic pls provide me even hypothetical situations as I know you can't give me any real ones as you do not play.

[heartbrand]

This also puts anyone who doesn't like boxing like myself at a major disadvantage thus you create a population less friendly to casuals than it already is.

It actually doesn't. You indirectly benefit from boxing because now there are more groups to join that never happened before because essential classes were missing. There's also more accessible ports and more people to PVP. The vast majority of people boxing do so in order to port themselves / buff, and to box a support class in order to make a group viable. 99% of the people aren't some boxing cyborg Sam Deathwalker pros binding moves to their mouse with 100 keys under their left thumb.

[Stasis01]

I am sure Samwise would be able to PL lowbie grps for 30 hrs a year with boxing enabled, but who knows I guess.

[Gaffin 7.0]

yeah boxing could help but 5 boxes on autofollow gonna make it look like ez server quick

[Stasis01]

there was once a time where a majority of the people in azrael refused to log on early sunday morning repop days, and those who did talked about how ridiculous it was that nihilum wanted to raid at that hour

then there was a time where azrael seemed to have no problem getting 27+ people on sunday morning when it was guaranteed that they'd be going to a pixel buffet

I wasn't there this last Sunday I worked, but I don't think those kids will sustain all targets - and Trakanon was up for days so I see the proof within weeks?

We'll see, obviously Azrael has worked harder than any other guild to get raid content, and now that they can they are taking advantage of it.

The real RMT test and sickness test comes when everyone has all the gear they want, if they keep farming it for a few years more just for fun.

[SamwiseRed]

You also think Variance is a good idea so I can see why we will never see eye to eye.

I'll admit I may be the minority but as a casual player IE I play whenever I have time and no more, boxing would be a turn off. I stated my opinion, no need to attack my character.

[heartbrand]

I guess the people OOCing for hours on end, "Unrest looking for a healer" should just learn how to make friends. Isn't that what blue's all about? Don't you need a rollodex of friends in order to get a group there? Wait... there's 1000+ pop and groups are a dime a dozen? Oh ok.


THERE ARENT GROUPS NOT BECAUSE PEOPLE DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKE FRIENDS BUT BECAUSE THERES FEW TO NO PEOPLE TO PLAY WITH

[Stasis01]

yeah boxing could help but 5 boxes on autofollow gonna make it look like ez server quick

That's against the rules, and allowing 1 box doesn't make 5 boxing any easier or easier to get away with, all scare tactics, all garbage.

[heartbrand]

Other than maybe Lewis, who the fuck here can pvp with 2 boxes effectively nonetheless fuckin 5 boxes?

[Stasis01]

You also think Variance is a good idea so I can see why we will never see eye to eye.

I'll admit I may be the minority but as a casual player IE I play whenever I have time and no more, boxing would be a turn off. I stated my opinion, no need to attack my character.

You never tried end game Red99, so I don't understand how you would even have an opinion on variance.

Maybe I'll edit this out.

[Gaffin 7.0]

i think population is going to rise soon enough without any of this needed but shrug

just need more strong leaders that want to give competition and not 1 raid guild 1 pvp guild just like it was before

[Tassador]

Mental patients.

[Doors]

Box population is low because Kunark is stale. PVP servers traditionally have lower populations but more people would be playing/leveling/etc if Velious was out.

Boxing is a band aid fix to the problem and realistically if people are already 2 boxing whats to stop them from 3 boxing if this goes in.

[Stasis01]

Just need 1500 people and 10 great guild leaders and a bunch of people to main clerics and enchs even tho they are boring as fuck and essentially a beefed up pumice or running around the entire fight.

Let's just pray tonight and make this shit go down.

[heartbrand]

The biggest problem red has always faced, other than a stagnant end game, is that rolling here as a newbie is incredibly difficult and unenjoyable. Contrast this with blue99 where there's even today tons of groups everywhere to be found, Orc Camp groups in EC etc., it just feels more like classic EQ. Here when you click enter world, you enter a barren wasteland with no one to play with, and when you finally find someone else, you probably don't have the right class composition to do anything, and when you do, you get a faggot like Maximilien there with his deleveled VP warrior to kill you.

[heartbrand]

Box population is low because Kunark is stale. PVP servers traditionally have lower populations but more people would be playing/leveling/etc if Velious was out.

Boxing is a band aid fix to the problem and realistically if people are already 2 boxing whats to stop them from 3 boxing if this goes in.

If we legalize marijuana what's to stop people from doing heroine?

[Haynar]

I think variance is what we need
Variance wont fix anything.

But i would love to see a variance on a 3 day spawn be a variable from 1 hr after death to 3 days. Total variance. Not just a +/- 12 hr.

H

[Gaffin 7.0]

i just dont ever see red getting anywhere near blue's numbers, lets break this down

20 blue servers back on live

1 red

x10 more players on blue

same as here

play with what you got and make it worth it, need a guild like red dawn and not faggot hokuten who quits within a month after stealing pixels with no spine

[Doors]

Yeah they had 72 hour variance on blue, it was fucking awful and ruined the entire game, which is why it was removed.

[SamwiseRed]

The difference between you and I are that I am looking at the pros and cons of boxing. The idea sounds great on paper, IE able to port yourself and pals, able to rez self and pals, ect ect. The problem isn't those situations where'd it benefit everyone. The problem is that people would abuse it. Whether it be multiboxing, ISOboxing, immortial healers, ect, I can think of a lot more ways it would ruin the play experience here rather than enhance it.

[Stasis01]

The only idea behind variance is splitting mobs up throughout the week instead of back to back 1 day, and to make it random hours that the biggest guild can't bring more numbers and just take it with ease.

However way you can get creative with it is just a bonus.

[Colgate]

have played on a dozen servers with 2boxing

these things you talk about samwise happen almost never

[Stasis01]

The difference between you and I are that I am looking at the pros and cons of boxing. The idea sounds great on paper, IE able to port yourself and pals, able to rez self and pals, ect ect. The problem isn't those situations where'd it benefit everyone. The problem is that people would abuse it. Whether it be multiboxing, ISOboxing, immortial healers, ect, I can think of a lot more ways it would ruin the play experience here rather than enhance it.

This is where if we were talking to each other in RL, I would want to rip your fucking face off.

How do you survive being so fucking stupid.

[heartbrand]

Variance wont fix anything.

But i would love to see a variance on a 3 day spawn be a variable from 1 hr after death to 3 days. Total variance. Not just a +/- 12 hr.

H

I was trolling OP because he preached Variance as the answer prior

[Stasis01]

This is the fundamental problem with Red99.

5 votes for No from people who don't play here and definitely don't play end game - with 3 votes from known members of the community who have led guilds and played against the top players.

[Stasis01]

Samwise is your druid still 50, Gaffin are you still retired after going 5-45 on a rogue and getting laughed off the box, Doors who are you, Haynar you play here?

Etc.

[Colgate]

The only idea behind variance is splitting mobs up throughout the week instead of back to back 1 day, and to make it random hours that the biggest guild can't bring more numbers and just take it with ease.

However way you can get creative with it is just a bonus.

you don't need variance to accomplish this

you literally just have to have the guild in power(yours) not want to kill it all back to back like nihilum did

i tried reaching out multiple times to lite about pushing timers back at least to a more sane hour of the day, but his final response was "dude 10 AM isn't even bad" despite the fact that it's 7 AM for some people

ya no one gives a fuck that you leave trakanon or talendor or gorenaire up all week, the only mobs 99% of people care to kill are venril sathir, severilous, innoruuk, cazic thule, phara dar and they're all back to back on sunday

[heartbrand]

This is the fundamental problem with Red99.

5 votes for No from people who don't play here and definitely don't play end game - with 3 votes from known members of the community who have led guilds and played against the top players.

hate 2 agree with someone with as much brain rot as stasis, but I have to here. the greatest irony is 2 of the people who voted no are people I know have boxed here in the past.

[Doors]

Stasis sperging out because people disagree with him.

[Gaffin 7.0]

Samwise is your druid still 50, Gaffin are you still retired after going 5-45 on a rogue and getting laughed off the box, Doors who are you, Haynar you play here?

Etc.

while you were qq'ing and away making 100 variance threads after leaving shit stomped by nilly, i was playing a cleric raiding you fucking idiot and still play'

yes i died alot on a rogue here, so what, my opinion is valid wether you give a fuck or not

[Stasis01]

you don't need variance to accomplish this

you literally just have to have the guild in power(yours) not want to kill it all back to back like nihilum did

i tried reaching out multiple times to lite about pushing timers back at least to a more sane hour of the day, but his final response was "dude 10 AM isn't even bad" despite the fact that it's 7 AM for some people

ya no one gives a fuck that you leave trakanon or talendor or gorenaire up all week, the only mobs 99% of people care to kill are venril sathir, severilous, innoruuk, cazic thule, phara dar and they're all back to back on sunday

This is why I focused on variance, because I don't see a guy like Lite or Nizzar just giving it away, or you for that matter.

I think I'm going to just walk away before I rage on all these other kids I agree with you though in a perfect world we would do it ourselves.

[heartbrand]

To people against boxing [though some who claim to be box themselves], what is your suggestion then to make rolling on red99 more accessible? Do you not believe that the dearth of support classes leads to a difficult setting with which to create groups? Is your alternative "well pvp isn't as popular so oh well"?

[SamwiseRed]

I think a better question would be, if 2 boxing was legal would you use it and how often.

And I am not just trying to troll you Stasis, I honestly think it would ruin the server. I could be wrong and I will admit that but I've been against variance and 2 boxing since day 1.

If it were my way I'd enforce SZ ruleset along with the 1 char per account, 1 account per IP, as well as tying in your forum account with your player character but hey I won't try to force that playstyle on anyone.

[harnold]

I may have a severe case of down syndrome, but this thread is more retarded then anything I've ever said

[Stasis01]

while you were qq'ing and away making 100 variance threads after leaving shit stomped by nilly, i was playing a cleric raiding you fucking idiot and still play'

yes i died alot on a rogue here, so what, my opinion is valid wether you give a fuck or not

Who do you play? Your rogue was a joke, maybe your cleric was good - I'll give you a shot.

[heartbrand]

I challenge Haynar or any dev to roll here as a newb and see how hard and unappealing it is to play.

[Doors]

Regardless of what sperglord stasis thinks rogeans never going to put this shit in. Blue was at like 200 population for the first few years it was around and they never put it in.

[Gaffin 7.0]

my rogue was a joke because i lvled up here with nothing to 52 with banded and didnt get my epic till 52, got killed 24/7 by azrael lvling up what do you expect?

[Stasis01]

I think a better question would be, if 2 boxing was legal would you use it and how often.

And I am not just trying to troll you Stasis, I honestly think it would ruin the server. I could be wrong and I will admit that but I've been against variance and 2 boxing since day 1.

If it were my way I'd enforce SZ ruleset along with the 1 char per account, 1 account per IP, as well as tying in your forum account with your player character but hey I won't try to force that playstyle on anyone.

I don't think you're trolling me, I think you have some idea of Red99 in your head that doesn't work in reality, and you don't play here, have never really competed here, and really shouldn't be posting.

[Haynar]

Samwise is your druid still 50, Gaffin are you still retired after going 5-45 on a rogue and getting laughed off the box, Doors who are you, Haynar you play here?

Etc.
Do I have to play on red? Do I have to play at all? I play nowhere. I do have input to what you get on Red. Boxing will be a Never. Variance is possible, but if you get it, it will be permanent. No turning it off, if you don't like it.

H

[Stasis01]

my rogue was a joke because i lvled up here with nothing to 52 with banded and didnt get my epic till 52, got killed 24/7 by azrael lvling up what do you expect?

Who is your cleric? Anon? interesting.

Probably a fucking scrub like your rogue, or nonexistent.

[Gaffin 7.0]

not turning this into a fight and derail, though i know i can play and i play cleric well so say whatever is on your mind dawg

[Stasis01]

Do I have to play on red? Do I have to play at all? I play nowhere. I do have input to what you get on Red. Boxing will be a Never. Variance is possible, but if you get it, it will be permanent. No turning it off, if you don't like it.

H

A BIG YES you do need to play here to understand the issues, and be able to relate to the player base.

If you don't play here, have no investment here, don't see the issues here please do me a favor and DO NOT POST.

[Stasis01]

not turning this into a fight and derail, though i know i can play and i play cleric well so say whatever is on your mind dawg

Oh OK take a walk then?

[heartbrand]

Do I have to play on red? Do I have to play at all? I play nowhere. I do have input to what you get on Red. Boxing will be a Never. Variance is possible, but if you get it, it will be permanent. No turning it off, if you don't like it.

H

Comments like this make me roll my eyes and wonder why I play here. What is there possibly to lose by turning on boxing for 5 days? For 3 days? It is literally impossible to create any long term damage by simply allowing boxing for 72 hours. Same with Variance [which I don't actually support].

[Doors]

I've played on a server that had variance for years, you're a moron and have no idea how bad it is or how it works. What you're asking for is fucking terrible.

[Stasis01]

Doors, Eslade, Gaffin 7.0, harnold, Haynar, HippoNipple, indiscriminate_hater, p99mina, Pikrib, SamwiseRed

Anyone who plays here will realise how funny this is.

[Stasis01]

I've played on a server that had variance for years, you're a moron and have no idea how bad it is or how it works. What you're asking for is fucking terrible.

You clearly never played end game here, who are you? We are not talking blue mechanics take that to server chat pls.

[SamwiseRed]

To people against boxing [though some who claim to be box themselves], what is your suggestion then to make rolling on red99 more accessible? Do you not believe that the dearth of support classes leads to a difficult setting with which to create groups? Is your alternative "well pvp isn't as popular so oh well"?

One thing I've always been against is low level twinks griefing new players off the server. I caused a big ruckuss in Azrael TS for calling someone out on it and was basically told to shut up who cares about new players.

Another thing is actually helping new players like YOU did with red dawn and I with VV. If you want fresh meat you need to help. With todays XP bonus is a fucking joke to how fast you can get a group of lowbies up to planar level.

Lastly simmer the fuck down. It is early as fuck and some of you are already flying off the handle. From OOC trolling to forum shit talk, often it just goes to far. I may be to blame for this one too, on occassion I used to troll ooc pretty hard but I tried to stay away from personal attacks at least.

The thing is the casual newb having a hard time can be fixed by the community already. You just need someone who isn't burned out on helping people to do it.

Those are just a few things on the top of my head. No coffee and doing homework so hopefully that made some sense.

[Stasis01]

Comments like this make me roll my eyes and wonder why I play here. What is there possibly to lose by turning on boxing for 5 days? For 3 days? It is literally impossible to create any long term damage by simply allowing boxing for 72 hours. Same with Variance [which I don't actually support].

Because there's a bunch of people who don't play here that create a bunch of noise over changes, when they don't even play here.

There is no harm, there is no argument against it, there's a bunch of illogical claims by people who DO NOT PLAY HERE.

[Haynar]

Comments like this make me roll my eyes and wonder why I play here. What is there possibly to lose by turning on boxing for 5 days? For 3 days? It is literally impossible to create any long term damage by simply allowing boxing for 72 hours. Same with Variance [which I don't actually support].

I am very pro-boxing. ALL of the rest of staff, GMs, Admin, everyone is anti-boxing.

Its just the way it is.

H

[Stasis01]

I am very pro-boxing. ALL of the rest of staff, GMs, Admin, everyone is anti-boxing.

Its just the way it is.

H

Yes for reasons that make sense on Blue, but don't on Red.

[Gaffin 7.0]

this is one of the biggest problems with red

lvl up your character (a melee at that) with nothing get killed alot so automatically you are a joke to the community

wrong, how about you stop being such a fucking asshole, take a xanax and relax and see others opinions without exploding like Max

[heartbrand]

So your answer to getting more people to roll here and play unpopular support classes is less low level twinks and helping people.

I appreciate your suggestion, and I think that's important, but I respectfully disagree that those are the top issues. I think the biggest issue is that there's a trickling in of players here, one here one there, and because of this they have difficulty finding other people who are taking the "plunge" to play with. They get burnt out / bored quickly of trying to find people to play with and thus quit. I think this is a much larger problem than twinks / forums / OOC Quest, etc., and one that boxing would rectify.

[Stasis01]

One thing I've always been against is low level twinks griefing new players off the server. I caused a big ruckuss in Azrael TS for calling someone out on it and was basically told to shut up who cares about new players.

Another thing is actually helping new players like YOU did with red dawn and I with VV. If you want fresh meat you need to help. With todays XP bonus is a fucking joke to how fast you can get a group of lowbies up to planar level.

Lastly simmer the fuck down. It is early as fuck and some of you are already flying off the handle. From OOC trolling to forum shit talk, often it just goes to far. I may be to blame for this one too, on occassion I used to troll ooc pretty hard but I tried to stay away from personal attacks at least.

The thing is the casual newb having a hard time can be fixed by the community already. You just need someone who isn't burned out on helping people to do it.

Those are just a few things on the top of my head. No coffee and doing homework so hopefully that made some sense.

It didn't, at all, your logic is shit, you have no experience, and you're stupid.

[bigeasy]

2 boxing was classic only thing that kept you from doing it was you had to pay for 2 accounts and maybe generally people didn't have more than 1 computer back then,, not sure why it is not allowed here when things like kunark being almost 3 years on blue and 2 on red obviously isn't classic

there are more vp geared players on this box than the totality of live during the kunark timeline i'd bet,, classic right? boxing would allow smaller crews to do more velious content and there would be less zerging like azrael is doing now

[heartbrand]

The most frustrating part is tons of people box here already because Red is essentially an unwatched server. So the only people punished are those who choose to play by the rules.

[Gaffin 7.0]

variance solves nothing, live never had it, we shouldnt

if anything i would rather see a raid system like blue has with different raid class ranks so each guild gets dragons

but its PvP so that doesnt really work

[Haynar]

A BIG YES you do need to play here to understand the issues, and be able to relate to the player base.

If you don't play here, have no investment here, don't see the issues here please do me a favor and DO NOT POST.

The current person listening the most to red issues code wise is ME.

However, considering your attitude, you are now on the list of people who no longer have such input. I will let the dev who plays on red address your concerns.

H

[SamwiseRed]

I think one thing that makes p99 so unique is the no boxing. It is also the most successful and stable emu. I won't say the 2 directly correlate because I do not know for sure. I do know I would have never played on red99 or blue if boxing were allowed.

There are other serves that allow boxing, if you truly think it provides better gameplay then why isn't everyone jumping ship?

[Stasis01]

You speaking doesn't really work.

[heartbrand]

god I made one snide joke about variance and now everyone is talking about it. variance is not the issue. the biggest issue of this server is getting new people to play here and continue to play here. the reason that's so difficult is because the server feels empty and there's few to no people to play with, and being a solo melee or non solo class is incredibly difficult and unrewarding. this continues on into the end game where it is hard to do things like seb groups / small raids, etc., because people are missing those classes.

[Gaffin 7.0]

i was joking as well when i quoted you because thats all stasis use to cry about, now its not since his guild is killing dragons

[SamwiseRed]

The current person listening the most to red issues code wise is ME.

However, considering your attitude, you are now on the list of people who no longer have such input. I will let the dev who plays on red address your concerns.

H

To be fair Stasis has always had it out for me for some reason. I think it is when I destroyed his variance argument months or years ago. He seems cool headed on TS most of the time but on the forums he is an emotional wreck.

[Stasis01]

The current person listening the most to red issues code wise is ME.

However, considering your attitude, you are now on the list of people who no longer have such input. I will let the dev who plays on red address your concerns.

H

The only changes code wise that I cared about are already changed, golem wands, 18 seconds tstaff etc etc.

You have no power over me, or my opinions, I've called out our GM's for their decisions and actions and can be banned any time, willingly.

If you think your threats intimidate me as a dev they don't, bring your logic and your opinion and I'll tell you mine - if you make sense i'll be honest about it and give you credit.

But the fact that I get gang jumped that this is a horrible idea from people who don't play, contribute, compete, farm, level, or do anything here really infuriates me.

[Stasis01]

Currently the only No vote that should be counted is Pikrib, and I respect that because HE PLAYS.

And probably because he mains a cleric, and cleric stock goes down with boxing, legitimately.

[heartbrand]

How many of us have experienced the following on a daily basis on red99?

Random_Guildy 01: "Hey guys anyone down for Seb/HS/Chardok/KC?"
Random_Guildy 02" "Sure, 54 Monk!"
Random_Guildy 03: "Ok I'll bring my 57 Rogue!"
Random_Guildy 01: "Ok, any clerics?"
Guild Chat: "...."
Random_Guildy 01: "Any druids/shamans?"
Guild Chat "...."
Random_Guildy 01: "Any healers!?!?!?!?"
Random_Guildy 01 "Well maybe we can bandage quest or pet tank, any chanters?"
Guild: "....."
Random_Guildy 01 "Ok gonna log guys see u later!"

[Gaffin 7.0]

these kind of threads just urk me, because nothing is going to change without some type of discussion of red99 on stream and getting peoples opinions just like it did with LNS rules

heartbrand already made a boxing voting post and it actually turned out double on YES over NO

[SamwiseRed]

Not agreeing with you in a poll thread no less is not jumping you. It doesn't matter if it were you, Nilbog, or Rogean who made the the thread. My vote and opinion would have been the same.

[Stasis01]

To be fair Stasis has always had it out for me for some reason. I think it is when I destroyed his variance argument months or years ago. He seems cool headed on TS most of the time but on the forums he is an emotional wreck.

You have 10.5 k posts about server mechanics and other things dealing with the server, when you are a 50 druid 3 years into Kunark.

I can't think of someone I think less of here except probably gaffin heh.

And you don't stop talking. If you were HB Colgate, any Nihi members, Holo, Azrael, I would give you some respect that you're due.

You are not a member of the community and try to talk a lot - move along.

[Stasis01]

these kind of threads just urk me, because nothing is going to change without some type of discussion of red99 on stream and getting peoples opinions just like it did with LNS rules

heartbrand already made a boxing voting post and it actually turned out double on YES over NO

Why even post this, please go errrrrrr. Whatever.

[Gaffin 7.0]

i honestly am glad you think nothing of me, because you are probably the most hated poster even over me on these forums, you think sam gives a fuck ethier?

get over your ego

[SamwiseRed]

Basically if you don't agree with boxing then this thread is not for you is where you are getting at right?

Cool beans man enjoy your day.

[Stasis01]

If I came here to make friends it would be easy enough, considering 90% of the people here are losers.

[Stasis01]

Basically if you don't agree with boxing then this thread is not for you is where you are getting at right?

Cool beans man enjoy your day.

When's the last time you played, what's the last guild you've been in, what is the last mob you've contested, what is the last group you've been in.

All of these things matter, I know you think they don't - but you've never played here, but talk a lot.

That means this thread is NOT for you.

[Stasis01]

Yes
AmukTZ, Beibei, Colgate, Dacuk, heartbrand, Stasis01, The Bears
7 38.89%
No
Doors, Eslade, Gaffin 7.0, harnold, Haynar, HippoNipple, indiscriminate_hater, Nirgon, p99mina, Pikrib, SamwiseRed

This is why these forums are a joke - look at the NO voters heh. 1 person who plays here, decent.

[Gaffin 7.0]

when i raided with azrael or nilly you didnt even play

i think i remember derub making a thread just for you to post all your rants in you went so bat fucking crazy

just like in this thread

yikes have fun

[Nirgon]

Boxing = everyone you fight is gonna have a full stack of buffs before they fight you.

I don't care for what it does to support classes and how it realllly fucks over people that don't have a "throw away" enchanter/cleric to buff themselves.

However, a brief period of boxing might see more people making it out of newbie zones.

I know Rogean and company don't like spending their time of "half measures" or "temporary solutions" but trying something like this for a month or two could be a good thing to increase pop. If it doesn't help the actual pop (other than #'s being higher due to boxes logged in?) kill it? Most computers couldn't handle boxing iirc and it was only around the time of the Velious client I saw it a bit more wide spread.

Having 400 pop would probably be better as 2 guilds could "zerg" (60 man raid force) which would be aight. Right now having 215 pop and 40-50 (honestly, a reasonable progression classic/velious raid force on the higher side) on any side is kinda bad :P.

I'd wait for all the resist/dispel fixes etc to make a "welcome back" + brief period of boxing (and maybe legacy items dropping again) work. Ain't gonna crusade 4 it, just a thought.

When's the last time you played, what's the last guild you've been in, what is the last mob you've contested, what is the last group you've been in.

All of these things matter, I know you think they don't - but you've never played here, but talk a lot.

That means this thread is NOT for you.

Would you like him back tho? Shire is good for the box imo. You got 6 PD robes or somethin' pal, how bout a happy face?

[Pikrib]

Doors, Eslade, Gaffin 7.0, harnold, Haynar, HippoNipple, indiscriminate_hater, p99mina, Pikrib, SamwiseRed

Anyone who plays here will realise how funny this is.

I think you have a problem with anyone who doesn't agree with you. I did box on rallos zek back in the day. That doesn't mean I would want to have it allowed here. Sorry Stasis I think variance and boxing would be bad for the server, but thats how I feel. Deal with it.

Try convincing me otherwise instead of attacking everyone that disagrees with ya. Maybe you could get more peeps on your side.

My advice is to go out and try to help some nebies instead of making more posts in which you just anger people.

[Stasis01]

when i raided with azrael or nilly you didnt even play

i think i remember derub making a thread just for you to post all your rants in you went so bat fucking crazy

just like in this thread

yikes have fun


Kk cya, won't remember/miss/think of you.

[Stasis01]

I think you have a problem with anyone who doesn't agree with you. I did box on rallos zek back in the day. That doesn't mean I would want to have it allowed here. Sorry Stasis I think variance and boxing would be bad for the server, but thats how I feel. Deal with it.

Try convincing me otherwise instead of attacking everyone that disagrees with ya. Maybe you could get more peeps on your side.

My advice is to go out and try to help some nebies instead of making more posts in which you just anger people.

I don't want more people on my side, or think I am that valuable to convince people.

I respect your opinion because you play here, and won't attack you.

I save that for the big mouth no shows.

Pras Pikrib.

[heartbrand]

I think there are some issues with Boxing, but I think they are heavily outweighed by the reasons for it. I also believe boxing would be a huge negative on BLUE, where you can monopolize pve cash camps with zero fear of PVP, at the detriment of actual players, something not possible on Red99. Almost all of the reasons against boxing simply don't apply to Red99.

If you read posts on the blue forums about red99, the overwhelming complaint is it feels empty here and the low pop. That people would be willing to try it out if there were more people. Boxing allows people to hit the ground running at their own pace, and quickly meet up with others doing the same. Shrug.

[Stasis01]

And I mean maybe your right Pikrib, all we need is people to be roaming around helping new players level... instead of just giving them a tool to do it themselves.

All I see are -

Few EXP grps.

Few 60 camps being done.

Very little non KC pvp.

No economy.

Lowbies getting discouraged.

[Nirgon]

I save that for the big mouth prospective returning players.


Come on back Sam.

[Stasis01]

Nirgon I was gona reply to your post but I haven't seen you since Guk 3 years ago when you blew ur mana pool on Billy a dark elf warrior with a shield and Gongshow raged on you.

Move along n00b.

[heartbrand]

Boxing = everyone you fight is gonna have a full stack of buffs before they fight you.

I don't care for what it does to support classes and how it realllly fucks over people that don't have a "throw away" enchanter/cleric to buff themselves.

However, a brief period of boxing might see more people making it out of newbie zones.

I know Rogean and company don't like spending their time of "half measures" or "temporary solutions" but trying something like this for a month or two could be a good thing to increase pop. If it doesn't help the actual pop (other than #'s being higher due to boxes logged in?) kill it? Most computers couldn't handle boxing iirc and it was only around the time of the Velious client I saw it a bit more wide spread.

Having 400 pop would probably be better as 2 guilds could "zerg" (60 man raid force) which would be aight. Right now having 215 pop and 40-50 (honestly, a reasonable progression classic/velious raid force on the higher side) on any side is kinda bad :P.

I'd wait for all the resist/dispel fixes etc to make a "welcome back" + brief period of boxing (and maybe legacy items dropping again) work. Ain't gonna crusade 4 it, just a thought.



Would you like him back tho? Shire is good for the box imo. You got 6 PD robes or somethin' pal, how bout a happy face?


Yes. This is what I would agree with. "Relaunch" with hype and events, moderate OOC or limit it to every 5 minutes or something, moderate forums, and then allow boxing for 1-2 months. This will allow new people to check things out, instantly be able to make groups since you can box essential classes, and just get immersed right away. Once we hit a nice stable pop of 300~ which I think is 100% obtainable here, then sure, remove it.

[heartbrand]

And I mean maybe your right Pikrib, all we need is people to be roaming around helping new players level... instead of just giving them a tool to do it themselves.

All I see are -

Few EXP grps.

Few 60 camps being done.

Very little non KC pvp.

No economy.

Lowbies getting discouraged.

It isn't viable nor is it desirable for the server to depend on level 60 clerics and druids babysitting people in Unrest. It's not even particularly fun for the person benefiting from the act of random kindness. People want to get immersed and experience classic EQ, which means grouping.

[heartbrand]

Also, the whole "people will run around raid buffed" thing, already fuckin happens WITHOUT boxing. Everyone logs on the Shaman box or Cleric box or Chanter box to buff everyone up before the zone hugging pvp fight.

[Stasis01]

People think that it's just going to be people doing their own thing 2 boxing, but with the GRP bonus it's going to be people boxing a cleric/porter/ench and filling the spots up to increase EXP.

Or doing camps on their own and selling items/making the economy move.

Finding a CLR/Ench to camp shit, then having someone leave, or they already have their little clicks etc doesn't work either.

[Pikrib]

A week or so I sugested that 2 boxing be allowed for anyone below lvl 45 as long as both characters were 45 or lower. Would anyone agree that this would be acceptable, and help the server? People could get gear easier, have ports, support classes, and of course level easier.

[heartbrand]

A week or so I sugested that 2 boxing be allowed for anyone below lvl 45 as long as both characters were 45 or lower. Would anyone agree that this would be acceptable, and help the server? People could get gear easier, have ports, support classes, and of course level easier.

While I think that's a great step, I still think there's an issue at end game as well of being able to get groups going due to many people being burnt out, and not enough essential classes to get things going. But it's a good compromise nonetheless, and who doesn't like a compromise?

edit: also porting around for pvp sucks when you have to be the guy to port everybody on the naked druid bot instead of getting to partake in the fun

[Stasis01]

It's better than nothing, I still like the idea of 90% res's on a box, or doing 60 group content.

But it's definitely a start and effects the biggest part of it which is exp grps.

[Rec]

You're only allowed to box if the box is lvl 10 or lower so it looks like new players actually have someone to group with.

[Stasis01]

Doors, Eslade, Gaffin 7.0, harnold, Haynar, HippoNipple, indiscriminate_hater, Nirgon, p99mina, Rec, SamwiseRed, ThadCastle

Anyone recognize people on this list? Me neither !

[Gaffin 7.0]

you dont even know rallos vets when you see them

you are a p99 red wanna be all star *****

actually most of your kills come from lite or someone in azrael playing you

have only gotten 1 kill since the leaderboard

pity reply

[Stasis01]

This isn't Live, and if it was, I'd be boxing.

[Pikrib]

While I think that's a great step, I still think there's an issue at end game as well of being able to get groups going due to many people being burnt out, and not enough essential classes to get things going. But it's a good compromise nonetheless, and who doesn't like a compromise?

edit: also porting around for pvp sucks when you have to be the guy to port everybody on the naked druid bot instead of getting to partake in the fun

It's better than nothing, I still like the idea of 90% res's on a box, or doing 60 group content.

But it's definitely a start and effects the biggest part of it which is exp grps.

Someone make a poll, and get others inputs instead of jawjacking in this thread the rest of the day.

[Stasis01]

Funny thing here is I follow the rules and play at a disadvantage from all the people who box gear, levels, and have mobility etc.

Whatever though - none of you people who don't play know this.

[Gaffin 7.0]

this isnt live, for sure, but your going back on my past so why cant I?

oh wait you are always right in everything you say

norrow minded idiots disagree with everyone

[heartbrand]

ditto, would love to box but never have because I got 0 patience/interest in figuring out how to VPN

[Stasis01]

Someone make a poll, and get others inputs instead of jawjacking in this thread the rest of the day.

No ones stoppen you pal, or anyone else - I realise the poll is doomed when I am the one doing it, but it'll get people thinking and talking.

The population is on the rise, we're at 200 - how do we make that 500.

Players can't do it alone.

[heartbrand]

Calling b.s. on pop 200. the /who all typically never goes past 150

[Stasis01]

It was 170 last night when i checked and the server count was 200.

Yeah I used the one that better showed my point... but 170 is good.

[Mac Drettj]

yes

[heartbrand]

on labor day prime time, I don't think that's representative of pop on avg but w/e

[Stasis01]

indiscriminate_hater

Gaffin's 6th account placed a vote not looking good for us lawl.

[Stasis01]

Meanwhile look at this list of server heroes and studs.

AmukTZ, Beibei, Colgate, Dacuk, heartbrand, Mac Drettj, Stasis01, The Bears

[Gaffin 7.0]

this is my only account and i didnt mean to vote no i actually wanted to vote yes because i believe it would help, you just rather attack me about a rogue i made and quit over a year ago

[Stasis01]

You may think I hate you, but I am seriously indifferent to you, you are nothing.

[georgie]

didn't have to read that wall of text to decide if boxing is a good idea or not

[Nirgon]

Nirgon I was gona reply to your post but I haven't seen you since Guk 3 years ago when you blew ur mana pool on Billy a dark elf warrior with a shield and Gongshow raged on you.

Move along n00b.

I've been clickin' along helping new people come up on the box actually (Doors/Poike) and others.

I think you gotta accept an open ended compromise in your favor here, Stasis.

You want boxing. Ok.

Now, that's a hard sell. But I think it could be good for a while up to indefinitely depending on how things go.

Best thing for box would be a "relaunch" probably with boxing enabled to help people get to @ least lvl 40. Letting people camp guises, manastone etc for A LITTLE WHILE along with this would be good too. But I think we should wait just a bit on doing this until the TLC from Haynar's pvp system come along. I saw the pop at 215 last night when I got back from vacation and.... that is just the sign of very good things needing a final push. A Smedy video might be nice to set things off if ya'll haven't burned that bridge of cre8tive talent.


PS: SETTIN THE RECORD STRAIGHT.

That was my first run in with Billy and I had ZERO idea he was a window licker/actually made a dark elf warrior (he did con yellow which was kind of a shock, his beard was quite ample... I took him srs). I got focus dispelled (I got focused first in every pvp engagement I can think of, ain't bragging u kno), saw Hughman coming my way and everyone firing up the DD spam (Nihilum healers nuked too, lawl).... and took him out in the bogs for some solo YT. If even just Hughman would have followed, I would have kited them until the rest of the fighting resolved, period. I'm not sure you were ever a caster/first priority target attacked in pvp early on this server but having ~700hp with every nuke/Whirl Till U Hurl/root unresistable and every melee hit basically hitting for full damage... you were pretty much an unhealable target under fire.


Last 2 times you saw me were bard training me down with a group of NIHILUM melees when I came to assist Kringe against my judgement/opinion (he naw'd my advice to plug and regroup). Full group of 60 melees vs a lvl 53/54 rog/wiz returning IN RAGS. Another time I had got up to 57 and found you in CT and you zoned from me because I had levi up, got an opener on you and you didn't in the gator lake to golem wands. Ain't talkin shit bout dat encounter because I understand the terms of the fight and am a gentlesir.


Let's keep things like I solo'd some retard in group pvp / your history of training players in guk rags with a Nihilum tag outta this and move on... it's ancient history.

The Duke will return and driving the current guilds to a state of unresolvable differences is just rolling out the red carpet for him. What happens then? I'll cash out 3:1 to my blue pixel empire/return things to pals and you'll go back to posting about variance and taking forumquest faction hits left and right. Let's try not to do that? K?

[Rec]

"No" is winning. take that!

[Swyft]

Let me be very clear about this - the people that want to box are boxing, I am no rat, and will point no fingers on either side, but believe me this runs rampant among higher end players that use it for many functions - and I don't mean for PVP benefit, I mean for support classes, ports, buffs, leveling and end game content.

By allowing boxing on Red you allow independence in the form of mobility for PVP/camps, leveling in areas that are not overrun by twink griefers hoping to find other players to gain EXP bonus with plus allows for support classes for newer guilds that want to stay independent but can't get the required enchs/clerics to do that content.


This would also completely destroy PvP as it won't be long before the Sam type player's show up. Not to mention the extreme number of carebears here that would only engage in pvp after they got every HP and resist buff they could.

Currently the only thing stopping this is the fact that they must be sneaky and hide it or face GM action.

[magician]

Literally have never seen stasis pvp lmfao.

[magician]

In other words go to blue faggot

[Nirgon]

Let the record show that Burt is just defending me from someone in clear violation of server chat rules.

[Stasis01]

Literally have never seen stasis pvp lmfao.

Was at the last 4/5 PD's we took, maybe you're in the wrong zone?

[Nirgon]

Cool your burgers

[Stasis01]

Literally didn't read your novel.

[Stasis01]

If someone who played here wrote it I probably would have.

[Gaffin 7.0]

Was at the last 4/5 PD's we took, maybe you're in the wrong zone?

http://r99pvp.com/showplayer.php?p=Stasis

[Stasis01]

I don't play Stasis - but I'm not shocked you don't know that, seeing as you don't play.

My entire point is there is no end game camps being done outside of certain clicks, and there is essentially no pvp except KC which is for nothing.

I could go on but repeating myself is annoying.

[Stasis01]

And I've done my ladder grind on Elderan's first board binding myself in Erudin and farming Nihi scum.

Was top 10 - been there done that, shits boring, I am more about PVP over camps, and raid mobs which is what live was all about.

No one wants counterstrike here, but due to side effects like low pop, hostile griefing community etc boxing would help a lot.

[Gaffin 7.0]

psychotic hypocrite

[Nirgon]

Literally didn't read your novel.

Is it possible for you to take "calm down" as something other than an insult?

Come up for air pal, the Duke is gone for now. Stop reaching for people to turn on.

Celebrate dem good times.

[Stasis01]

Sorry that you're a non-factor, keep logging on alt nobodies to vote.

We have the mostbitter delvld 30 warrior who griefs newbies in MM who is voting non boxing - can't imagine what his motivation is.

But I'd guess it's because peopel are forced into populated areas chasing the EXP bonus and forced to eat his epic'd vp'd geared lvl 30 warrior up the ass.

[Pikrib]

http://r99pvp.com/showplayer.php?p=Stasis

That is only one of his characters. Correct me if im wrong but pretty sure hes got like 4 lvl 60's. Which is Y somone like Stasis or HB shouldn't be the one bringing up "Need to allow Boxing on Red 99" topics.

[Stasis01]

Is it possible for you to take "calm down" as something other than an insult?

Come up for air pal, the Duke is gone for now. Stop reaching for people to turn on.

Celebrate dem good times.

You haven't played here 3 years, I don't know you IRL, we have nothing in common.

Why are you talking to me?

[Stasis01]

That is only one of his characters. Correct me if im wrong but pretty sure hes got like 4 lvl 60's. Which is Y somone like Stasis or HB shouldn't be the one bringing up "Need to allow Boxing on Red 99" topics.

I wouldn't mind doing end game camps with a box, which would allow myself to be open for PVP, and add to economy by buying and selling.

Instead I log on my max geared 60 look around KC and log off.

I don't see why others would be hard done by if I boxed, if I wanted to I could ask my computer tech buddy Bamzal how everyone else does it - but I don't.

[Mac Drettj]

ive got 10 characters

i don't box cus its not allowed

everyone else does tho

legalizeit

[Not_Kazowi]

Stasis and azrael looking for something else to complain and cry about now nihilum is gone.

How about you guys man up and keep to your word. Stop zerging shit and preventing any kind of guild v guild pvp. No one gives a fuck you left mobs up you don't need.


Boxing won't fix this server. The top guilds on it seem to want 0 competition because people are more afraid of getting YTed than getting cancer.

[Tassador]

Mental patients talking about blue server real cool stuff.

[Stasis01]

Stasis and azrael looking for something else to complain and cry about now nihilum is gone.

How about you guys man up and keep to your word. Stop zerging shit and preventing any kind of guild v guild pvp. No one gives a fuck you left mobs up you don't need.


Boxing won't fix this server. The top guilds on it seem to want 0 competition because people are more afraid of getting YTed than getting cancer.

I don't see why this is viewed as fixing or broken - it would help, the end.

Any VZTZ vet should agree with me, considering you spent how long complaining that it takes too long for the nobodies and the max geared to be close in competition.

Boxing, faster EXP, etc are all benefits to that, but since I laugh at you for being a hypocrite and a newb you based your opinions off of that.

You are worse than a loser, you are emotionally invested in who is saying what over what you think.

[Nirgon]

Boxing would help people for a while. If and when the grace period ends, players would be better able to fill necessary group slots with one of their 2 chars going forward. It just seems like a good way to get the pop rolling combined with the relaunch.

Long term it though? The "even playing field" turns into everyone having cleric buffs all the time or all the lowbie pks buffing themselves every time they go out to exercise an already large advantage.

[Stasis01]

Also, blaming Azrael for this situation is not really being fair.

If the spawn time is known, and one guilds is stronger - I mean what do you want Lite to do tell people not to log on, don't show up?

I mean it'sa fucked up system with statics, everyone knows and shows up at a specific time.

It isn't even necessarily the people who play the most winning heh, this systems fucken bizarre - but w/e let's stay on topic.

[Stasis01]

Or for him to be like, yeah you guys showed up and tried to help with Nihi, but now that they are gone we're going to cut you all loose.

I don't know - I don't see Az recruiting, or any new voices in TS - it's the same old same old.

[Stasis01]

Boxing would help people for a while. If and when the grace period ends, players would be better able to fill necessary group slots with one of their 2 chars going forward. It just seems like a good way to get the pop rolling combined with the relaunch.

Long term it though? The "even playing field" turns into everyone having cleric buffs all the time or all the lowbie pks buffing themselves every time they go out to exercise an already large advantage.

There is basically no PVP, so the idea that there's people camping shit, and other people looking to kill them sounds good.

I mean I guess that doesn't sound perfect - but let's define the current situation. A few Counterstrike players, or people prepping for Velious are roaming around.

Other than that, a few clicks of farm crews are becoming wealthy.

I mean you can use that "this is EQ what do u want, argument" but I still stand firm that it is classic.

[Mac Drettj]

Boxing would help people for a while. If and when the grace period ends, players would be better able to fill necessary group slots with one of their 2 chars going forward. It just seems like a good way to get the pop rolling combined with the relaunch.

Long term it though? The "even playing field" turns into everyone having cleric buffs all the time or all the lowbie pks buffing themselves every time they go out to exercise an already large advantage.

agree

Boxing would allow the server to "snowball" some population growth. The inflating numbers would be attractive to outsiders, start-up would be easier, and people would be able to have both a support and a non-support character to offer groups.

I've played a lot of servers, some with boxing, some without. Boxing has never been a MUST or GTFO. I have never seen someone kicked from a group/raid because they chose not to box. I've never seen someone complain that N person has buffs from their box. And I've never seen someone complain that N person killed their box when they weren't looking.

All good things.

http://s.mcstatic.com/thumb/7319163/20146206/4/flash_player/0/1/grandmas_boy_2006_film_mr_cheezle.jpg?v=2

[heartbrand]

Boxing would help people for a while. If and when the grace period ends, players would be better able to fill necessary group slots with one of their 2 chars going forward. It just seems like a good way to get the pop rolling combined with the relaunch.

Long term it though? The "even playing field" turns into everyone having cleric buffs all the time or all the lowbie pks buffing themselves every time they go out to exercise an already large advantage.

gr8 post from the Dr. of Everquest

[Colgate]

Also, blaming Azrael for this situation is not really being fair.

If the spawn time is known, and one guilds is stronger - I mean what do you want Lite to do tell people not to log on, don't show up?

I mean it'sa fucked up system with statics, everyone knows and shows up at a specific time.

It isn't even necessarily the people who play the most winning heh, this systems fucken bizarre - but w/e let's stay on topic.

this is sort of the mentality that nihilum had and everyone in azrael condemned it

yes, he should say don't log on at 7 AM to kill venril sathir

[Nirgon]

Anyone disagree with a red relaunch campaign with manastone/guise with limited boxing?

Up to staff obviously, including how long that "grace period" is but it sounds like a strong campaign to draw interest.

Hopefully server chat can get cleaned up and RNF can just get 10x worse instead during this time too?

I'd say we need to announce the campaign well in advance with a start date so word can get out then groups of people from blue/returners to the box can get together and figure out what they wanna roll.

[heartbrand]

Anyone disagree with a red relaunch campaign with manastone/guise with limited boxing?

Up to staff obviously, including how long that "grace period" is but it sounds like a strong campaign to draw interest.

Hopefully server chat can get cleaned up and RNF can just get 10x worse instead during this time too?

I'd say we need to announce the campaign well in advance with a start date so word can get out then groups of people from blue/returners to the box can get together and figure out what they wanna roll.

plz god

[Sektor]

Anyone disagree with a red relaunch campaign with manastone/guise with limited boxing?

Up to staff obviously, including how long that "grace period" is but it sounds like a strong campaign to draw interest.

Hopefully server chat can get cleaned up and RNF can just get 10x worse instead during this time too?

I'd say we need to announce the campaign well in advance with a start date so word can get out then groups of people from blue/returners to the box can get together and figure out what they wanna roll.
please do this GMs

[Mac Drettj]

i have 14-19 characters all 50-60 and would HATE to lose 5000 hours of play time

but if anyone says that launch up to today has been live, and is not just a alpha/beta period are out of their minds

it took Alecta/Haynar (within the last 6months) to address bugs (and resists/mechanics) that should have been addressed in the "beta".

[Stasis01]

Things are pretty good here now, but the low pop makes a whole lot of problems just being able to play the game.

Boxing is a good start if wipe is off the table, and I don't even know if a wipe would be effective long term.

[Stasis01]

this is sort of the mentality that nihilum had and everyone in azrael condemned it

yes, he should say don't log on at 7 AM to kill venril sathir

Once Azrael gears up their main people with the shit that they have been cockblocked from for years I would agree.

If it's wave 18 of Azrael alts gearing up while Lite just horded a bunch of shit etc.

[Stasis01]

I mean Elspeth doesn't have a staff yet, Queen needs a wiz epic, a bunch need legs.

The fuck dude week 2 you're saying Lite's Nizzar that's just plain lying and minimizing Nizzar's RMT dedication.

[heartbrand]

I mean Elspeth doesn't have a staff yet, Queen needs a wiz epic, a bunch need legs.

The fuck dude week 2 you're saying Lite's Nizzar that's just plain lying and minimizing Nizzar's RMT dedication.

0 competition, invited 8-10 hokuten members including hokuten guild leader giving him an out to disband guild, hand holding with sapporro's guild of 6-10 players as well, all with 0 competition on box. routinely bring 6-8 people for 2 man skirmishes in kc.

[Sektor]

That's Colgate for you. He's just a kid tho, can't expect much from the 20 year old.

[Stasis01]

We're essentially used to fighting on krypton vs Nizzar and now we're shot to earth and Nizzar died back on krypton.

Least nerdiest way I can explain it.

But I did say this would probably happen.

[ricquire]

0 competition, invited 8-10 hokuten members including hokuten guild leader giving him an out to disband guild, hand holding with sapporro's guild of 6-10 players as well, all with 0 competition on box. routinely bring 6-8 people for 2 man skirmishes in kc.

The Top Jew's analysis pretty accurate. Perhaps this is why his people have prospered?

[heartbrand]

all while claiming they have done this in order to counter zerg the Nihilum 2.0 guild or something that doesn't exist

[Stasis01]

The idea was Hokuten was to tackle multiple targets during Simulated Repops(which is what we wanted RD for) if you didn't know by now.

Hence they helped us, and we helped them etc.

[heartbrand]

The idea was Hokuten was to tackle multiple targets during Simulated Repops(which is what we wanted RD for) if you didn't know by now.

Hence they helped us, and we helped them etc.

how did they help you? nihilum doesn't exist? you also killed their guild by raiding VP on dead box which created pixel lust in the upper echelon of the guild. said upper echelon was then absorbed into Azrael thus killing the guild off.

[Stasis01]

AKA if you thought it was a separate guild... wow.

[Stasis01]

how did they help you? nihilum doesn't exist? you also killed their guild by raiding VP on dead box which created pixel lust in the upper echelon of the guild. said upper echelon was then absorbed into Azrael thus killing the guild off.

By taking targets from Nihi while we went for other targets like PD. Aka one in VP one outside, or multiple world targets.

Just Jib doing something new/effective/worked for RD etc.

With Nihi gone, and us in control - naturally they want to just join and farm.

This is all predictable shit if you're shocked at how it played out with Nihilum being gone 1 day I am sorry for you.

[heartbrand]

AKA if you thought it was a separate guild... wow.

so Hokuten was just part of Azrael the entire time? what about the 20-30 casual and lower level players who thought the guild was a separate entity and now have no home on the box because you poached their leader and officers?

[Stasis01]

That being said I dont' see Azrael keeping it up and I could see VS/Sev/Inny being up within a couple months for awhile after spawn time.

Time will tell~

[Nirgon]

Try not to hate anyone to the point they're more important than keeping recently banned cancer down if they try to come back.

[Stasis01]

so Hokuten was just part of Azrael the entire time? what about the 20-30 casual and lower level players who thought the guild was a separate entity and now have no home on the box because you poached their leader and officers?

The people who didn't make a name for themselves are probably homeless. I mean you get pressure from the community, other guild members, if you didn't help vs Nihi by the time they were gone I doubt you'll get an invite.

Hokuten was a tool to beat Nihi, it said in the guild charter, they got help from Azrael taking down weak raid content while we contended with high raid content.

It wasn't really a scam, and people should have known what they were signing up for. Those that made a good impression didn't really get hung to dry.

[Colgate]

i don't know how else to say everyone cried about nihilum raiding uncontested at 8 AM and now they're doing THE EXACT SAME THING

[Stasis01]

i don't know how else to say everyone cried about nihilum raiding uncontested at 8 AM for three years 100% Raid Attendance and now they're doing THE EXACT SAME THING

Fixed

[Nirgon]

I don't have the biggest problem with the Azrael pals bearding PD for a while after fighting the zerg so long :).

Lot of em showed up to contest for a long time with nothing to show. That's not a troll or meant to be a knock of any kind. It's true, a lot of thankless effort was put in to stop the sleepless real pixel transaction machine and they surely deserve some pixel shower.

[Colgate]

ya if you try to tell me there aren't people in azrael who would do the same that's insanity

it happened for almost 2 months with 0 signs of slowing down(our numbers only got larger and larger actually)

why do you think i left to make holocaust with no hesitation? i have 0 interest in uncontested pixel farming

[Stasis01]

I've spoke with long TLDR diaries about how this would play out and Lite would be the new Nizzar, I don't really need to repeat.

I think you're good for the box Colgate, that we agree on pal - hopefully we don't just fill the zerg shoes and turn into Nihi.

If we do I am almost certain it would repeat a third time if I left and did something different and would probably just be apathetic.

[Combobreaker]

it's called, Hypocrisy

http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2013/38/7fdf748e5d64d8c6d474da5cca6c460a9c251dcd.jpg

[Kergan]

How things could have gone:

Hokuten, Azrael, Mafia, Holocaust, God's Work, possible 6th guild all field 15-20 man forces. Battles constantly, every mob and zone contested depending on the time of day.

How things did go:

Hokuten leader disbands guild, takes the top 30-40% of the guild and joins Azrael. Holocaust/Mafia/God's Work field 5-10 during most peak times, maybe an occasional spike to around 15. Homeless Hokuten join a few random crews, quit or stay unguilded. 30 man Azrael raid while historically not a ton of people for a raid crew becomes at least double what any other guild can field so contesting not possible.

Because of this, instead of repop timers shifting to a prime time/high population period during the day when that is the only time when any guild can field enough players to clear it, Azrael keeps clearing it early Sunday morning.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Colgate]

looks like it's headed in that direction tbh

[Nirgon]

I've spoke with long TLDR diaries about how this would play out and Lite would be the new Nizzar, I don't really need to repeat.

I think you're good for the box Colgate, that we agree on pal - hopefully we don't just fill the zerg shoes and turn into Nihi.

If we do I am almost certain it would repeat a third time if I left and did something different and would probably just be apathetic.

Aight dats kew.

Just remember... we're post Nihilum disband and largely the end of the real pixel machine. Cool out, be happy and EQ it up.

I'm sure in the coming months if the Duke tries to reclaim the peak in force, Holo will be there to help u beat them down. If I wasn't sure that was the case? I wouldn't have 1 second of /played with these guys right now.

[Sektor]

Woke up at 10 am to kill dragons not 8 on a SUNDAY. Lol

[Stasis01]

Yup, almost like somethen needs a change (contesting guilds wanting variance)

[Pikrib]

Colgate you need those greedy pixel whores in your guild or no one is gonna want to contest for those big battles on repop days. Start recruiting...

[Kergan]

Woke up at 10 am to kill dragons not 8 on a SUNDAY. Lol

So like there are these things called time zones and stuff.

[heartbrand]

How things could have gone:

Hokuten, Azrael, Mafia, Holocaust, God's Work, possible 6th guild all field 15-20 man forces. Battles constantly, every mob and zone contested depending on the time of day.

How things did go:

Hokuten leader disbands guild, takes the top 30-40% of the guild and joins Azrael. Holocaust/Mafia/God's Work field 5-10 during most peak times, maybe an occasional spike to around 15. Homeless Hokuten join a few random crews, quit or stay unguilded. 30 man Azrael raid while historically not a ton of people for a raid crew becomes at least double what any other guild can field so contesting not possible.

Because of this, instead of repop timers shifting to a prime time/high population period during the day when that is the only time when any guild can field enough players to clear it, Azrael keeps clearing it early Sunday morning.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Nirgon]

Colgate you need those greedy pixel whores in your guild or no one is gonna want to contest for those big battles on repop days. Start recruiting...

For what? The next memorial day weekend?

Give it a while? :)

[heartbrand]

The thing is, holocaust is actually trying to stick to the 25 player goal which I thought we as a server endorsed. We could easily zerg it up with 40+ on repop day within 2 weeks. There's tons of people who dislike Azrael and would love to join an alternate raiding guild. But we're trying our hardest to stick to the vision. Seems AZ don't give a fuck tho.

[Nirgon]

Some will get a few PD loots and retire till Velious.

Pretty happy a lot of non-vocal/loyal Azrael guys are getting their PDs tbh.

Enjoy it ya'll.

[Colgate]

Colgate you need those greedy pixel whores in your guild or no one is gonna want to contest for those big battles on repop days. Start recruiting...

holocaust was not recruiting at all and azrael absorbed 10+ people from hokuten to "combat the inevitable zerg"

what do you think they'll do if we say that we're recruiting more people to contest?

the holocaust core has little to no interest in PvE honestly, and we're quite satisfied for the most part with the people currently in the guild; there are no massive sperglords or druggies shitting up teamspeak like there are in every other guild

[Combobreaker]

Cap guilds at 25 hardcoded members (no alts, etc) until we can field 3-4+ active guilds, lift the cap come velious, hopefully then after merging into guilds sizable for velious content - we still have 2-3+ active guilds participating

[Pikrib]

25 total or active at any one time?

Azrael have like 50 people, but < 30 are on at any one time. Recruit some more people. I'm sure u can find 15 more people that you don't mind having in TS.

[Not_Kazowi]

Stasis is a maniac. Dude is literally back tracking and contradicting himself from almost every post before nihilum was disbanded.

Fact is no one cries more than azrael and here they are doing exactly what they cried about. Now why don't you idiots break up your guild and send us into this "new age of pvp from the premier pvp guild"

You guys are now the joke of the server 100%. I'm speaking truth here dude so don't try to scapegoat this with me being emotional on a server I spend 2 hours a week playing, if that.


Nihilum is gone, you're accountable for your actions. There's no one else to shake your finger at now.

[ricquire]

Guild Cap? Not Classic.

Small skirmish guilds not interested in PVE as primary goal? Not Classic.

EQ is about loot.

Take this not classic PVP priority talk to xboxone or halo or whatever kids play nowadays.

[Kergan]

25 total or active at any one time?

Azrael have like 50 people, but < 30 are on at any one time. Recruit some more people. I'm sure u can find 15 more people that you don't mind having in TS.

So the Azrael answer to this is to recruit more people than needed to try and match the size of the biggest guild?

[Stasis01]

Stasis is a maniac. Dude is literally back tracking and contradicting himself from almost every post before nihilum was disbanded.

Fact is no one cries more than azrael and here they are doing exactly what they cried about. Now why don't you idiots break up your guild and send us into this "new age of pvp from the premier pvp guild"

You guys are now the joke of the server 100%. I'm speaking truth here dude so don't try to scapegoat this with me being emotional on a server I spend 2 hours a week playing, if that.


Nihilum is gone, you're accountable for your actions. There's no one else to shake your finger at now.

If my intention was to take Nizzar's role, and I thought Nizzar being banned would make Red99 more competition friendly, I'd just not even post, and laugh at you all because I have what I want.

But Nizzar being banned is a huge start.

[Pikrib]

Didn't Azrael have 30 on for repops? It's good to see my side get loot and all but.. As far as i'm concerned Azrael didn't honor the 25 person guild thing so Y should Holo. I think they wouldn't mind some competition.

p.s. I think all of the people who joined Az from Hokuten were previously in Az.

[HippoNipple]

Capping guilds is an awful idea. Especially at a size like 25. When you are a normal guild progressing and not a stale one that has been raiding for 2 years you need some more numbers. On top of that they have to compete with guilds that have 25 BiS players. On this server there would be 2 guilds running things with 0 chance for anyone new to the server.

I guess you could have 2 guilds team up with each other and be in team speak but it is just another obstacle dealing with DKP and having an identity as a guild.

If any new guild is going to start up and try to overthrow these guys that have been building BiS characters for 3 years they are going to need to have higher numbers to do so.

[Stasis01]

If another weaker guild shows up to contest Azrael we gona have 50 + you have no idea.

[Sektor]

Didn't Azrael have 30 on for repops? It's good to see my side get loot and all but.. As far as i'm concerned Azrael didn't honor the 25 person guild thing so Y should Holo. I think they wouldn't mind some competition.

p.s. I think all of the people who joined Az from Hokuten were previously in Az.

27 is our max of members on at once.

[heartbrand]

27 is our max of members on at once.

you had 33 @ VS

[Kergan]

Didn't Azrael have 30 on for repops? It's good to see my side get loot and all but.. As far as i'm concerned Azrael didn't honor the 25 person guild thing so Y should Holo. I think they wouldn't mind some competition.

p.s. I think all of the people who joined Az from Hokuten were previously in Az.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

[Pikrib]

27 is our max of members on at once.

Including <Antartica the polymorphes>/other random?

[Stasis01]

Cid, Doors, Edgat, Eslade, Gaffin 7.0, georgie, Glissando, harnold, Haynar, HippoNipple, indiscriminate_hater, Katrasle, Liten, mostbitter, Nirgon, Not_Kazowi, p99mina, Pikrib, Quiet, Rec, SamwiseRed, Taboo, ThadCastle, Varren, Vharvest

W H O ? ?

[Combobreaker]

25 total or active at any one time?

Azrael have like 50 people, but < 30 are on at any one time. Recruit some more people. I'm sure u can find 15 more people that you don't mind having in TS.

In a perfect world where everyone's time coincided with one anothers, the 25cap would be just fine. However, hardcapping the guilds at 25 would take away from having enough intermittent numbers throughout the week at certain points in time.

In our real time red99 world, it would stave off organized & scheduled raid times that would be contingent on their playerbase rather than that of the actual spawn timer... Which is another reason why people are still pro-variance

[Quiet]

If competition showed up. Azrael would go back on another Sabbatical. Flakiest people on the box.

[Nirgon]

Cid, Doors, Edgat, Eslade, Gaffin 7.0, georgie, Glissando, harnold, Haynar, HippoNipple, indiscriminate_hater, Katrasle, Liten, mostbitter, Nirgon, Not_Kazowi, p99mina, Pikrib, Quiet, Rec, SamwiseRed, Taboo, ThadCastle, Varren, Vharvest

W H O ? ?

You start a thread and just start attacking people mang. Great way for no one to listen to you or support your idea.

[Pikrib]

2 wrongs don't make a right.

Nilly usually had 45-50 so Kergan u should cut the BS right out of your posts.

[Quiet]

What would make this argument more hilarious is if Velious (LOL) ever came out. You cant do any part of NToV with 25 men. Hell I find it unlikely you could do anything besides uhm... Vindi , Arena and maybe Dain?

[heartbrand]

What would make this argument more hilarious is if Velious (LOL) ever came out. You cant do any part of NToV with 25 men. Hell I find it unlikely you could do anything besides uhm... Vindi , Arena and maybe Dain?

I don't think anyone disputes that, but I don't see the need to recruit for Velious with no release date in sight.

[Stasis01]

You start a thread and just start attacking people mang. Great way for no one to listen to you or support your idea.

It's not my idea, and it's not my job to come up with a plan for how to sell this place and get higher sustainable numbers.

It's starting a conversation on what new Red players experience, why they fall off, why they stay, and how to better accommodate newer players.

I won't list all my original reasons how this helps.

But I do know the GM's were asking about it on the stream with Lite and this is the question.

[Nirgon]

Just don't make it your job to lash out at people and ignore the trolling pal.

Good stuff in agreement atm.

[Sektor]

I support a Holocaust Azrael alliance when velious launches just to take server wide firsts and to piss off blue. :)))

[Combobreaker]

At velious launch it would be most progressive to have 5-6+ smaller guilds already prepped and ready to start fighting over new lands, making alliances or growing/recruiting as needed.

Start thinking more like RISK and less like MONOPOLY

Every single person complaining about numbers being too low for velious.. It's not about who kills the last pixeldragon first, its the journey on the way towards the endgame content. Do you really wanna end up at the end of velious with no competition and all the loot you could imagine? That's like the twilight zone where the guy ends up in his own town filled with books to read, but breaks his glasses. (or kunark nowadays...)

Same shit goes for pixels, you need others playing to enjoy them fully

[Stasis01]

You can look in the mirror then fag, I was asking for your help forever.

[Stasis01]

You were geared for a long time and just remained dormant and inactive for dreams of velious pixels, and didn't want to rock the boat.

Silly lecturing fool, you have no legs to stand on.

[Hamburgalur]

All these suggested tweaks aren't going to make the server any better. You'll still have the same shitty players and the same shitty guilds. These changes aren't going to magically improve the server as you envision.

You need to appeal to a different player base, the blue players neutral to the cause. That's who would be pushing the server 300+. Getting them to play on red would be fun for everyone.

Just because the server is made more friendly to blue, doesn't mean it makes this server any less red. It only makes it better than it was before. The only people who will tell you otherwise are the entitled elitist so called pvpers.

[Rec]

No still winning!

[Stasis01]

Boxing is classic.

The poll might as well have been worded "How many ass hurt people from either staff, players, or the game itself are here voting because they are mad"

Poll would look like it does now except reverse.

[Hamburgalur]

I'd rather play with a few cheaters than endorse a new rule that let's everyone cheat officially. Boxing is lame.

[Not_Kazowi]

Boxing is classic.

The poll might as well have been worded "How many ass hurt people from either staff, players, or the game itself are here voting because they are mad"

Poll would look like it does now except reverse.

Dude seek help seriously. I really think you're manic and need medication

[HippoNipple]

If another weaker guild shows up to contest Azrael we gona have 50 + you have no idea.

So you want to cap guilds so your current crew can horde all pixels with little to no effort. If another guild starts rising and can contest without a guild cap your crew you will recruit as many needed to ensure you keep all content - got it.

[Stasis01]

The fuck man.

[Buhbuh]

I'm going to go ahead and bite on this subject, even though I know for the most part anything I say isn't going to be absorbed by anyone, which is ironic because it's the exact thing I'm going to talk about.


Any population growth you hope to see on this server can't be forced with a hot fix, i.e. ideas like variance, boxing or some other sensational idea that you think and will fail to immediately garner results.

The reality is, we aren't going to see an increase in this server's population without changing how we act fundamentally.

Any real increase in population here happens slow and steady, not in huge waves of "Oh my god, they have boxing and variance? Now it's worth my time!"

Now that Nihilum's gone, it's actually the perfect time to change the culture of the server. Top guild leaders in the past, for some unknown reason, or probably for some sense of teenage glee they wanted to relive, would not talk or interact with each other. Lite, Nizzar and whomever else in the annals of Red99 history hardly, if ever, spoke with one another, and they certainly never tried to control their members. I know this because I was in pretty much every guild worth a damn on this server, and every guild leader had a strong suit, but what they all seemed to lack was order.

I get that we're all 20-40 years old and the idea that guild leaders have to put leashes on people is ridiculous because they should know better than to act like children and be completely ridiculous in-game, but it's pretty clear that most people don't know any better.

What I'd suggest, firstly, is to stop being such vitriolic, hateful morons so publicly all the time. Leaders need to muzzle their members. It's actually quite simple to change the culture of this server. If you're in a position of leadership and someone is shitting up ooc in your guild (first you have to actually give a shit about this), then you can punish them. If they don't like it (this is where you stop giving a shit), they have the option to leave. Guess what happens 99% of the time? No one leaves.

Do you know why no one leaves? Because they want pixels; because they have friends there; because they'd be playing alone or starting from scratch if they did leave.

It's not really about being super anal, it's about having standards set in stone for the members of your guilds and holding them to those standards.

Do you understand what happens when new people see other people being nice or courteous or not complete fucking assholes?

This is like 101 for how churches recruit and proselytize people. It's essentially the same concept but applied to Red99. Especially when you're trying to convince blue players that our server is better. Yes, I don't understand either how people can find blue even remotely intriguing, but they do. They haven't seen the light apparently (or in this case, darkness, which we need to change).

For mass PvP battles, when one side wins, it's a nice courtesy to rez one of their clerics after you've secured the zone, dropped the raid target and are about to leave. It's like a symbol of goodwill.

As a sidenote, I'd say that almost all of this server's players who came from Sullon Zek would call all of these ideas "care bear faggotry," but the reality you all need to let settle in is that Sullon Zek had the most heinous community of people on live, the lowest population of any server and, most importantly, the most uninviting population. You can certainly argue the merits of the word "heinous" based on your opinion of what makes a good server, which some people are wont to do here, but as general point of contention - corpse camping, item loot, bind camping, horrendous global ooc, training, hacking and guilds that treat each other like absolute garbage are antithetical to population growth.

Probably several players the community respects as PvPers are from Sullon Zek or very much pro all of those things I just mentioned, but if you want to see the server grow, that mindset can't be at the forefront of how this server operates. It just isn't feasible with server growth. We don't have the luxuries of EQ live anymore. It's essentially up to us to make something work.

Guild leaders need to stop letting their members run hog wild and make real punitive efforts for them when they do stupid shit.

I'm aware that most of you feel like this server is self-sustaining and that the GM's are supposed to be in charge of sorting out the people who act like complete dog shit, but that's not how this server works. We know that know because... look at the population. We've retained no one. It's been an ebb and flow of 100 to 200 people for years.

Like two weeks ago, Sektors left his stream up, implicating his own guild leader (Lite) in a train he deliberately dropped on us in the pillow room of VP. That shouldn't be how these PvP fights go. Guild leaders are supposed to be at the vanguard, acting as an example for everyone else. Nizzar was no better (worse, even), I'm not here to point fingers.

The point is that every guild on this server has, at best, a very loose set of rules when it comes to interacting with other people outside of their guilds. It's just a "They don't have our guild tag? Do whatever the fuck you want" culture we've built.

You've got to have order. There's really no other way to say it. And we're all guilty of lacking it.

[heartbrand]

That was the vision of RD rip

[Gaffin 7.0]

i killed red dawn everyday was good fun, but what you did with that guild was right in every way and had a good run, sucks no one else has the balls to step up besides azrael and do it

edit-

I guess not really the balls but the time to do so

[Azure]

I guess not really the balls but the time to do so

I was going to say that balls have nothing to do with winning at this game b4 I got finished with your post.

But you managed to get there on your own. ;)

P.S. what this project needs is a roleplay enforced pvp server. Run by that evil bitch Faerie with Chewie as a GM with ban privilages.

Shit would be gr8.

[Kastro]

On VzTZ i boxed all the time...i dont really care for playing without it unless im logging on with the same people every day... boxing let me get so much character progression when no one or just one or 2 from guild were on....

Now i think if it were allowed all of a players accounts should be flagged together... so if you are an @$$hat on one account, you are banned on both... also for pvp the lower level toon should be flagged to be in pvp range of anyone that can kill the higher level...

[Combobreaker]

Add -

Boxing
FFA PvP Range
Variance
25-30 player Guild Caps until Velious Launch
Nostalgia week/month for removed items (Fungi staff, Manastone, Guise, TD Binds? Go crazy)

[Not_Kazowi]

On VzTZ i boxed all the time...i dont really care for playing without it unless im logging on with the same people every day... boxing let me get so much character progression when no one or just one or 2 from guild were on....

Now i think if it were allowed all of a players accounts should be flagged together... so if you are an @$$hat on one account, you are banned on both... also for pvp the lower level toon should be flagged to be in pvp range of anyone that can kill the higher level...

Lol sup kastro

[Kastro]

Lol sup kastro

Nada, checking out the boards... every once in awile almost tempted to find titanium... miss the game from the old VZTZ days ( dont miss my life from then or how I was)

I miss the era where TZT started swarming and there was still item loot,. Guildies handed you planar armor when you joined... PVP meant something...

What did you ever do with Searyx's Sode of Empowerment? Such a meh item past classic... yet so good for talkin smack...

Remember Piektz kept trying to get me to give or trade him back the mith arms I ganked from him..

There were always such good fights... it was a good era..

I remember there being courtesy and respect to some extent also...

What you been up to?

[Jenni D]

lol, this fucking moron having a pop at Sam.

When server pop was sat around 12-20 people daily, SAMWISE single-handedly recruited, raised and gave birth, as such, to a guild of 40, mainly blue crossovers and some fresh p99'ers.


what have YOU ever done for the server pop?

[Stasis01]

I'm going to go ahead and bite on this subject, even though I know for the most part anything I say isn't going to be absorbed by anyone, which is ironic because it's the exact thing I'm going to talk about.


Any population growth you hope to see on this server can't be forced with a hot fix, i.e. ideas like variance, boxing or some other sensational idea that you think and will fail to immediately garner results.

The reality is, we aren't going to see an increase in this server's population without changing how we act fundamentally.

Any real increase in population here happens slow and steady, not in huge waves of "Oh my god, they have boxing and variance? Now it's worth my time!"

Now that Nihilum's gone, it's actually the perfect time to change the culture of the server. Top guild leaders in the past, for some unknown reason, or probably for some sense of teenage glee they wanted to relive, would not talk or interact with each other. Lite, Nizzar and whomever else in the annals of Red99 history hardly, if ever, spoke with one another, and they certainly never tried to control their members. I know this because I was in pretty much every guild worth a damn on this server, and every guild leader had a strong suit, but what they all seemed to lack was order.

I get that we're all 20-40 years old and the idea that guild leaders have to put leashes on people is ridiculous because they should know better than to act like children and be completely ridiculous in-game, but it's pretty clear that most people don't know any better.

What I'd suggest, firstly, is to stop being such vitriolic, hateful morons so publicly all the time. Leaders need to muzzle their members. It's actually quite simple to change the culture of this server. If you're in a position of leadership and someone is shitting up ooc in your guild (first you have to actually give a shit about this), then you can punish them. If they don't like it (this is where you stop giving a shit), they have the option to leave. Guess what happens 99% of the time? No one leaves.

Do you know why no one leaves? Because they want pixels; because they have friends there; because they'd be playing alone or starting from scratch if they did leave.

It's not really about being super anal, it's about having standards set in stone for the members of your guilds and holding them to those standards.

Do you understand what happens when new people see other people being nice or courteous or not complete fucking assholes?

This is like 101 for how churches recruit and proselytize people. It's essentially the same concept but applied to Red99. Especially when you're trying to convince blue players that our server is better. Yes, I don't understand either how people can find blue even remotely intriguing, but they do. They haven't seen the light apparently (or in this case, darkness, which we need to change).

For mass PvP battles, when one side wins, it's a nice courtesy to rez one of their clerics after you've secured the zone, dropped the raid target and are about to leave. It's like a symbol of goodwill.

As a sidenote, I'd say that almost all of this server's players who came from Sullon Zek would call all of these ideas "care bear faggotry," but the reality you all need to let settle in is that Sullon Zek had the most heinous community of people on live, the lowest population of any server and, most importantly, the most uninviting population. You can certainly argue the merits of the word "heinous" based on your opinion of what makes a good server, which some people are wont to do here, but as general point of contention - corpse camping, item loot, bind camping, horrendous global ooc, training, hacking and guilds that treat each other like absolute garbage are antithetical to population growth.

Probably several players the community respects as PvPers are from Sullon Zek or very much pro all of those things I just mentioned, but if you want to see the server grow, that mindset can't be at the forefront of how this server operates. It just isn't feasible with server growth. We don't have the luxuries of EQ live anymore. It's essentially up to us to make something work.

Guild leaders need to stop letting their members run hog wild and make real punitive efforts for them when they do stupid shit.

I'm aware that most of you feel like this server is self-sustaining and that the GM's are supposed to be in charge of sorting out the people who act like complete dog shit, but that's not how this server works. We know that know because... look at the population. We've retained no one. It's been an ebb and flow of 100 to 200 people for years.

Like two weeks ago, Sektors left his stream up, implicating his own guild leader (Lite) in a train he deliberately dropped on us in the pillow room of VP. That shouldn't be how these PvP fights go. Guild leaders are supposed to be at the vanguard, acting as an example for everyone else. Nizzar was no better (worse, even), I'm not here to point fingers.

The point is that every guild on this server has, at best, a very loose set of rules when it comes to interacting with other people outside of their guilds. It's just a "They don't have our guild tag? Do whatever the fuck you want" culture we've built.

You've got to have order. There's really no other way to say it. And we're all guilty of lacking it.

I don't disagree with you, all good ideas - but I personally feel that the actual server isn't that bad, except for the lowbie twink griefers. The PNP has completely killed the all night high end guild CCing or whatever griefing was caused there.

End game, and 95% of the zones are just empty, with people not doing much except their standard groups, that's the problem.

All that stuffs good, I just dont' see the hardcore griefing, look at the leaderboard - look at all the empty zones people can level in etc.

[Stasis01]

And this idea of boxing isn't about adding people - well it is in a round about way, but it's a way to get people playing support classes and groups/camps being filled, which might attract pvpers, and might attract traders, and might attract new players etc etc.

[Stasis01]

Also if it sucks just turn it off - everything is all or nothing with this box, and a whole ton of fucking random's and faggots opposing every turn. Box is looking great, 200 almost nightly server select screen.

World still feels empty, Velious will still feel empty - how can we get people filling up camps when they don't want to main support classes.

Shit ain't rocket surgery you fucken clowns.

[Not_Kazowi]

Nada, checking out the boards... every once in awile almost tempted to find titanium... miss the game from the old VZTZ days ( dont miss my life from then or how I was)

I miss the era where TZT started swarming and there was still item loot,. Guildies handed you planar armor when you joined... PVP meant something...

What did you ever do with Searyx's Sode of Empowerment? Such a meh item past classic... yet so good for talkin smack...

Remember Piektz kept trying to get me to give or trade him back the mith arms I ganked from him..

There were always such good fights... it was a good era..

I remember there being courtesy and respect to some extent also...

What you been up to?

I'm good bro, those are some great memories you brought up. VZTZ was a gentlemans server. People weren't such nutcuppers as they are here. Everyone is worried about their elf rep and getting YTed.

Too bad we can't go back. I've been playing this server some but lately I hardly log in. There isn't raid or high end pvp whenever I'm online so I logout and play LoL typically.

[Pikrib]

You would need Haynar on your side if you ever wanted boxing, and it looks like Haynar voted no. His vote counts for 10,000 players btw. So im pretty sure boxing will never happen. I would still be down for boxing if the charcters being boxed were below lvl 45.

p.s. More votes are in. R the people voting anti boxing any more legit in your eyes Stasis?

[pgerman]

Boxing wont solve anything, other than gankers running around with full buffs 100% of the time instead of 90% of the time.


Boxxing wont help lowbies in anyway, their groups will still get steamrolled all the same if they are dumb enough to level in unrest or mistmoore.

[heartbrand]

Boxing wont solve anything, other than gankers running around with full buffs 100% of the time instead of 90% of the time.


Boxxing wont help lowbies in anyway, their groups will still get steamrolled all the same if they are dumb enough to level in unrest or mistmoore.

but it WOULD help groups actually happen. I dunno I played on LoZ with boxing. A lot of these fears of huge 100% buffed gank squads runnin around raping people just didn't happen. most people played a box for support class purposes to make a group work, or a porter/rez bot. sure there's the 1% tryhard super players, but making rules based on the 1% is always pretty bad policy.

[heartbrand]

Yes my rl brother or a pal playing him ocasionally. /shrug My whistle is clean...

is he related to lite's cousin out of curiosity?

[Nirgon]

Boxing wont solve anything, other than gankers running around with full buffs 100% of the time instead of 90% of the time.


Boxxing wont help lowbies in anyway, their groups will still get steamrolled all the same if they are dumb enough to level in unrest or mistmoore.

Yeah but if both sides are boxing a 49+ druid for instance....

or 2 of the new players do the same...

I completely hear you on gankers just cleric buffing themselves every time before they go out and the new "standard" for pvp becomes having buff bots. That is not a good thing.

[Mac Drettj]

ps pgerman is a nilly/azrael core trade account

bias w motive

[heartbrand]

Pgmernan is yiam who on occasion in classic played mafakka.

[HippoNipple]

LoZ sucked for me. I guess I got there late and maybe missed all the fun but I ended up trying to gear 3-4 characters of my own in a group of 3 guys that played consistently. Eventually I was too burnt out on PvE to gear all these damn characters for a low population server which probably came from others getting burnt out on the same type of crap.

Boxing makes PvE go quicker but it also doubles the amount of gearing you need to do at end game which is the biggest time sink. All of a sudden you need 2x the DKP while the only raiding guild only needs half the active players. If I was an active raider for the last 3 years and had 3+ BiS characters I would be for boxing, but for selfish reasons.

[Swyft]

Boxing wont solve anything, other than gankers running around with full buffs 100% of the time instead of 90% of the time.


Boxxing wont help lowbies in anyway, their groups will still get steamrolled all the same if they are dumb enough to level in unrest or mistmoore.

This would become the new PvP standard of course Heartbrand doesn't have a problem with this he plays this way already.

[daasgoot]

To people against boxing [though some who claim to be box themselves], what is your suggestion then to make rolling on red99 more accessible? Do you not believe that the dearth of support classes leads to a difficult setting with which to create groups? Is your alternative "well pvp isn't as popular so oh well"?

i rolled a troll shaman about a week ago.

was able to find duo-trio in inno swamp(and lguk) lvl 1-10

went to CB, had no problems finding groups every time i logged in

went to unrest, found groups every time i logged in no problem

went to MM, found groups every time i logged in no problem

now lvl 32


don't think the server NEEDS boxing

[Swyft]

hb would box a shm because being slowed helps ot hammer proc more reliably ehehehe GET IT

How the elite pvp lmfao

[heartbrand]

i rolled a troll shaman about a week ago.

was able to find duo-trip in inno swamp(and lguk) lvl 1-10

went to CB, had no problems finding groups every time i logged in

went to unrest, found groups every time i logged in no problem

went to MM, found groups every time i logged in no problem

now lvl 32


don't think the server NEEDS boxing


pictures worth 1000 words

here's innothule, 2 other people both high levels chilling

http://imageshack.com/a/img904/4307/D5tC9E.jpg

here's crushbone, lowbie melee with druid PLVL, might even be boixng

http://imageshack.com/a/img746/2624/djML8b.jpg

upper guk 0 ppl

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/1393/DBzeYb.jpg

lower guk 2 people grouped, draw your own conclusions

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/87/ODegZb.jpg

2 people in unrest

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/5201/GharNi.jpg

0 ppl in dagnor

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/549/oj0WjR.jpg

3 people in MM, one of whom was a high level camping HBC

http://imageshack.com/a/img912/8974/M3abDX.jpg

0 people in BB

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/6870/M6XaDU.jpg

[Pikrib]

noon? wtf HB.

[heartbrand]

noon? wtf HB.

the guy i was responding to said there's people to group with at any time