Would you play on red if:

[SenoraRaton]

you could transfer characters from blue?

Not sure if this is feasible, but there is a lot of griping about the lack of grouping on red due to low population, to the point that there are xp bonuses to encourage groups. There are also people on blue who are bored with their max level characters. This would probably kill any leveling and lower level PvP for the red server, but it would encourage and entice people to transfer characters over to PvP. A few ways it could be implemented, either just a naked copied character with no gear to prevent tampering with the current red economy, to full on transfers of items/plat/gear/faction etc. Thoughts, ideas, and flames are all welcome.

[Bboboo]

No.

Some people just don't want to PvP. End of story.

[Daldaen]

I'll play on red if the Priest of Order allows me to turn in the book of order and turn off PvP.

[Swish]

I'll play on red if the Priest of Order allows me to turn in the book of order and turn off PvP.

http://i.imgur.com/abLwD5l.gif

I'm writing that one down :D

[stakha]

No.

Some people just don't want to PvP. End of story.

[myriverse]

No.

Some people just don't want to PvP. End of story.
But I'll consider it for like $1 million.

[Swish]

you could transfer characters from blue?

Not sure if this is feasible, but there is a lot of griping about the lack of grouping on red due to low population, to the point that there are xp bonuses to encourage groups. There are also people on blue who are bored with their max level characters. This would probably kill any leveling and lower level PvP for the red server, but it would encourage and entice people to transfer characters over to PvP. A few ways it could be implemented, either just a naked copied character with no gear to prevent tampering with the current red economy, to full on transfers of items/plat/gear/faction etc. Thoughts, ideas, and flames are all welcome.

If it turned the server into a red server with no pvp (everyone silently agreeing not to kill each other) it would be a tragedy. For that reason I don't think it's the solution...but would be nice to see more people try red and learn from the ground up.

Give someone access to their L60 blue enchanter on red and it's not going to be enjoyable for them, lots to learn etc.

Invest in a new red character today pals...

http://i.imgur.com/DkLBQJw.gif

[kaev]

No

[Rec]

If there were actually people to play with....yes

[arsenalpow]

If it turned the server into a red server with no pvp (everyone silently agreeing not to kill each other) it would be a tragedy. For that reason I don't think it's the solution...but would be nice to see more people try red and learn from the ground up.

Give someone access to their L60 blue enchanter on red and it's not going to be enjoyable for them, lots to learn etc.

Invest in a new red character today pals...

http://i.imgur.com/DkLBQJw.gif
Enchanter class is pretty awful on this emu. Dispell line restistable past cancel magic, chaotic feedback ultra resisted when it was almost never resisted on live. I was afraid of a good enchanter on SZ, on red it's a joke.

[Dirkus]

No.

Some people just don't want to PvP. End of story.

[Rhambuk]

Delete character, or transfer to a dead server.

same difference?

[Amyas]

Also that would be unfair to the pvpers who had to deal with pvp leveling up.

[Atmas]

Maybe, I played PvP on live and loved it. I just don't know if now that I am older and have less free time I can deal with some of the bullcrap that comes with PvP. Also I don't like the rule set. I really want the racial teams, maybe even the alignment teams. Plus the fact that AAs aren't going to be added makes me sad because PvP will never really reach its full potential.

[Tenlaar]

No.

Some people just don't want to PvP. End of story.

Also, stop with the damned play red threads already. We all know red is there and have made the choice not to play there.

[Tuffpuppy]

The only way many people would play on Red is if there was a wipe. The amount of exploiting that surrounded that server after launch is incredible. Now it's one guild that controls everything, no thanks.

[Rhambuk]

Now it's one guild that controls everything, no thanks.

i heard they were recently disbanded and the leader banned

[Tasslehofp99]

I would OCCASIONALLY play red if character transfers were allowed.


Would still focus 99.9% of my attention on the characters/guild that I've invested my time into over the last 4 years. This is simply because I prefer PVE vs PVP atleast when it comes to Everquest.

[Tenloar]

All these red posts asking us blue peeps to join them:
5428

[iruinedyourday]

Can someone enplane to me why they don't like threads that ask people to join red?

[HippoNipple]

Can someone enplane to me why they don't like threads that ask people to join red?

They look like the poster above you and are mad at everything.

[loramin]

I'll play on red if the Priest of Order allows me to turn in the book of order and turn off PvP.

This ... kinda: I only want to be able to turn the book in temporarily though.

The problem with red is that you'll be XPing, and some asshole will come along and kill you. That, very simply, is not fun, and I'm sure it's a huge part of why people try the server and leave. We're playing a game, and the point of playing a game is to have fun.

PvP is fun when you ready to participate in it, but currently on Red you have no choice: you have to participate 100% of the time. It doesn't matter that you wanted to try and get your toon to level 5 tonight: if some twinked asshole decides he wants to kill you and make you do a corpse run, you're getting killed and making a corpse run tonight ... instead of having fun playing Everquest. So that's why I don't play on Red: I want to have a say in whether I'm going to get to play the game when I log on, and on Red I don't get that say, the twink does.

If I could turn off PvP to go XPing, and then turn it on when I wanted to fight other players, that would be wonderful. It's almost as if I wish there were certain "battle ground" zones where you could go to fight, and then continue to play the game as normal outside of them. But no MMOG has ever done anything like that and been successful (certainly not the most successful MMOG of all time) ...

[Visual]

why not allow naked transfers?

It only takes a week or two to make 60 as it is and there is little-to-no pvp happening at lower levels minus some griefing.

I wouldn't say it's the ultimate solution but the infusion of hundreds of accounts would not be a bad thing imo.

[Naprox]

why not allow naked transfers?

It only takes a week or two to make 60 as it is and there is little-to-no pvp happening at lower levels minus some griefing.

I wouldn't say it's the ultimate solution but the infusion of hundreds of accounts would not be a bad thing imo.

I don't know what you're smoking but please pass that stuff around.

I've been playing since May 1st 2014 and I play 12 to 15hrs a day 7 days a week (because I'm retired and have the option to indulge) and I'm still only 57 on my highest character.

Leveling is not difficult and there are places where it is more efficient than others, but 1 to 60 in two weeks is a complete farce without being PL'd and having infinite funds to twink out min/max.

[loramin]

I've been playing since May 1st 2014 and I play 12 to 15hrs a day 7 days a week (because I'm retired and have the option to indulge) and I'm still only 57 on my highest character.

On Blue or on Red? If you're talking about Blue, you have to remember that Red has a huge experience bonus that Blue doesn't.

[Naprox]

On Blue or on Red? If you're talking about Blue, you have to remember that Red has a huge experience bonus that Blue doesn't.

Was referring to Blue. Was not aware of this huge xp bonus on Red but if it's that significant, I might just have to tryout Red.

[Swish]

The problem with red is that you'll be XPing, and some asshole will come along and kill you. That, very simply, is not fun, and I'm sure it's a huge part of why people try the server and leave. We're playing a game, and the point of playing a game is to have fun.

The mindset is all wrong though loramin. You're trying to avoid the full pvp experience by only trying to pve.

If you zone into say.... Mistmoore, and you see someone there on half health sat down not giving any shits about where they are - you don't have to pvp them, but you need to be aware that its possible.

You can kill them, take their coin and leave... or stay, let them loot their corpse, and they'll leave and go somewhere else or camp out.

The "pvp happened to me, I don't like it" mentality needs some work - you should be initiating pvp as well...and the first fight you win is as good as any dragon kill or epic quest completion in terms of the rush (especially if it was close).

...and trust me, you'll want it again ;)

Make pals, know your enemies... and learn the right strategies. It's the same game you always loved, but its a whole new game at the same time <3

[Swish]

That's probably as close as I've got to a "not annoying" post about red ^^

[Tenlaar]

That's probably as close as I've got to a "not annoying" post about red ^^

Yet it's still so very annoying!

[Naprox]

Although I've never tried PvP in EQ, from what I've observed about the game mechanics and the fact that many forms of CC are negated on Red as I understand it, I just see no reason to put much effort into it.

There are plenty of better MMOs out there that were specifically designed for PvP as their primary reason, with much better mechanics. Dark Age of Camelot comes to mind as one if you're looking for something that is both PvP and nostalgic.

[Swish]

Although I've never tried PvP in EQ, from what I've observed about the game mechanics and the fact that many forms of CC are negated on Red as I understand it, I just see no reason to put much effort into it.

There are plenty of better MMOs out there that were specifically designed for PvP as their primary reason, with much better mechanics. Dark Age of Camelot comes to mind as one if you're looking for something that is both PvP and nostalgic.

Would you want a necro sneaking up and fearing you, dotting you and killing you before you got the chance to respond? :p

Some parts of CC would be incredibly overpowered if they worked as they do in pve.

[Naprox]

Would you want a necro sneaking up and fearing you, dotting you and killing you before you got the chance to respond? :p

Some parts of CC would be incredibly overpowered if they worked as they do in pve.

PvP is PvP. As long as counters are obtainable within the game (i.e. resists) then yes they should work the same. If you take away fear from a necro than that class simply has no viability in the pvp format.

Therein lays the problem with EQ and PvP. You cannot equitably balance the classes for PvP because this game was never intended to be a PvP game. Hence, no real reason to play on an EQ PvP server. At least for myself.

[loramin]

The "pvp happened to me, I don't like it" mentality needs some work
Based on other recent threads, that seems like a pretty typical Red response: if you don't think it's fun to have no control over being killed, you don't belong on Red. Well then, it's no wonder so few people think they belong on Red.

I'm no stranger to MMOG PvP: I played DaoC, EVE, WoW (on a PvP server), and even Shattered Galaxies (a failed RTS MMOG). I most definitely enjoy PvP in the right context ... but when I'm leveling in my starting area, that's not the right context. No amount of lecturing me on how my "mentality needs some work" is going to change that.

Consider a WoW PvP server (in contrast to Red):


I start in an area that's pretty much 100% safe from PvP.
Once I level enough to leave, I can still XP in a mostly safe area: if the opposing faction shows up to grief, warning alerts inform the whole zone and higher level players appear to save me.
Once I leave the "mostly safe" area, people generally keep the fighting to contested zones and battlegrounds (they're incentivized to).
Even if I do get in a fight elsewhere, at least I'm ready for it, and have a whole faction to support me.


Red isn't WoW, and it shouldn't be. But Red should take lessons from successful games, and change its ruleset to support fun for everyone ... or it can stay as is, and Red players can keep telling anyone who doesn't like it that they don't belong.


TLDR: If someone has tried Red and didn't have fun, telling them they don't belong (or that they need a different mentality) is not going to grow your server. What will grow the server is taking a lesson from other games where PvP actually was successful, and changing Red's rules in ways that encourage fun for everyone (ie. fair fights) and discourages ganking of n00bs.

[Aveenia]

I'll play on red if the Priest of Order allows me to turn in the book of order and turn off PvP.

Yup.

[applesauce25r624]

Enchanter class is pretty awful on this emu. Dispell line restistable past cancel magic, chaotic feedback ultra resisted when it was almost never resisted on live. I was afraid of a good enchanter on SZ, on red it's a joke.

gheyyyyyyyy

wish we had DR on CC on red. isn't fear disabled completely?

[Daywolf]

n0

[metatron]

no we will not play on red,

now please let blue be

[Swish]

Based on other recent threads, that seems like a pretty typical Red response: if you don't think it's fun to have no control over being killed, you don't belong on Red. Well then, it's no wonder so few people think they belong on Red.

Well, in turn...that's a typical blue response I think :p

It's not for everyone, but I think a lot of people misjudge how good it can be. The only thing that would make it "classic" is a higher pop.

[Swish]

Based on other recent threads, that seems like a pretty typical Red response: if you don't think it's fun to have no control over being killed, you don't belong on Red. Well then, it's no wonder so few people think they belong on Red.

I'm no stranger to MMOG PvP: I played DaoC, EVE, WoW (on a PvP server), and even Shattered Galaxies (a failed RTS MMOG). I most definitely enjoy PvP in the right context ... but when I'm leveling in my starting area, that's not the right context. No amount of lecturing me on how my "mentality needs some work" is going to change that.

Consider a WoW PvP server (in contrast to Red):


I start in an area that's pretty much 100% safe from PvP.
Once I level enough to leave, I can still XP in a mostly safe area: if the opposing faction shows up to grief, warning alerts inform the whole zone and higher level players appear to save me.
Once I leave the "mostly safe" area, people generally keep the fighting to contested zones and battlegrounds (they're incentivized to).
Even if I do get in a fight elsewhere, at least I'm ready for it, and have a whole faction to support me.


Red isn't WoW, and it shouldn't be. But Red should take lessons from successful games, and change its ruleset to support fun for everyone ... or it can stay as is, and Red players can keep telling anyone who doesn't like it that they don't belong.


TLDR: If someone has tried Red and didn't have fun, telling them they don't belong (or that they need a different mentality) is not going to grow your server. What will grow the server is taking a lesson from other games where PvP actually was successful, and changing Red's rules in ways that encourage fun for everyone (ie. fair fights) and discourages ganking of n00bs.

A lot of emphasis there on being able to be killed in your starting area. Consider how long you're there, versus your time in other places later on.

If you get ganked by a deleveled epic rogue in full uber gear with everything BIS while killing wolves/orc pawns/skeletons (as is a frequently typed out myth) I'd say you got extremely unlucky :p

That's the kind of thing that really doesn't happen often, but sure...death is part of it. If you can't handle being killed by another player (which seems to be what you're saying) then by all means stick to blue.

EQ pvp isn't ez mode WoW pvp with quick respawns/access to corpses/etc. But it is fun.

I know that if more people played on red, more people would play on red, nameen? ;)

Don't hate on the recruitment threads, it's just a bunch of us who'd like to see the community grow.

[Daywolf]

Don't get me wrong, luv pvp, just FFA isn't my thing at all. Too many years of faction wars in swg, ps1, wwii online, uo, eve, to name a few. I like more organized pvp, and big battles. P99 needs a FW server of some sorts, maybe with hybrid firiona vie rules and some sort of flag system to fight over.

[rafaone]

I'll play on red if the Priest of Order allows me to turn in the book of order and turn off PvP.

Owned

[Swish]

Don't get me wrong, luv pvp, just FFA isn't my thing at all. Too many years of faction wars in swg, ps1, wwii online, uo, eve, to name a few. I like more organized pvp, and big battles. P99 needs a FW server of some sorts, maybe with hybrid firiona vie rules and some sort of flag system to fight over.

Yeah I dont doubt when pvp teams gets released eventually there'll be a lot of interest.

...and theres no harm in practicing EQ pvp and getting a feel for the basic flow/mechanics of it, if you want to try something a bit different that is :)

[Zalaerian]

Enchanter class is pretty awful on this emu. Dispell line restistable past cancel magic, chaotic feedback ultra resisted when it was almost never resisted on live. I was afraid of a good enchanter on SZ, on red it's a joke.

Not tru. Red has completely different coding than blue. Dispell line is unresistable. Rapturing a target that isnt rdy and doesnt have a crim pot ticking is game over. Enchanter with inny shield is probably the best small scale pvp class

[heartbrand]

Red is more fun than ever with lots of small crews . If there were ever a time for a guild from blue to come to red, now would be it.

[Brut]

Wipe it and keep it classic era only. /burp

Not happening, but that's me opinion on things. And it wouldn't solve anything, really. Server was great when it started, had some flaws going at the time with ridiculously borked stuff that caused alot of people to quit, still great times had there. Unfortunately blues too salty now to try again if they did (and wont) reboot it.

And enc was great fun. Plenty of goofy white con rangers in their MR getup complained how there's nothing they can do!

[Circa.]

Start with the people on the server, there straight up toxic, flat out assholes. Pretty much worst I've seen on any emulator. The constant immature ooc bullshit quickly deters someone from playing on red as well. While the group bonus exp is nice and gives them an incentive to group, it's hard to deny the fact when someone logs on a 300k geared character who has leveled down to JUST grief..I mean I know its pvp but fuck. Not to mention if you EVER are unguilded and join a pick up group with people who are guilded whoever it is, you're finished and will get labelled. Which automatically narrows your pool of people to play even when you don't have a guild tag.

[Swish]

Start with the people on the server, there straight up toxic, flat out assholes. Pretty much worst I've seen on any emulator. The constant immature ooc bullshit quickly deters someone from playing on red as well. While the group bonus exp is nice and gives them an incentive to group, it's hard to deny the fact when someone logs on a 300k geared character who has leveled down to JUST grief..I mean I know its pvp but fuck. Not to mention if you EVER are unguilded and join a pick up group with people who are guilded whoever it is, you're finished and will get labelled. Which automatically narrows your pool of people to play even when you don't have a guild tag.

can we confirm no toxicity on blue though?

Camp lawyers, raid disputes/guilds banned from raiding, casino scammers, beggars in EC, MQ quest scams.

Lets keep it in perspective. OOC can be turned off, that's not hard. About as easy as not reading the red forums if they upset you. Also I've never been griefed by a super-duper ultra twinked toon on red in my time, but I know better than to level in Unrest and similar places.

[Brut]

Blatant twinked griefers oughta be banned on the spot imo, only thing they're trying to accomplish is kill their own server with their idiotic Crushbone fungi rangers.

[Millburn]

can we confirm no toxicity on blue though?

Camp lawyers, raid disputes/guilds banned from raiding, casino scammers, beggars in EC, MQ quest scams.

Lets keep it in perspective. OOC can be turned off, that's not hard. About as easy as not reading the red forums if they upset you. Also I've never been griefed by a super-duper ultra twinked toon on red in my time, but I know better than to level in Unrest and similar places.

Toxic players absolutely exist on both servers but that's not the root of the argument. The argument is that a disproportionate amount of toxic players make up the community on red as opposed to blue.

[Swish]

Toxic players absolutely exist on both servers but that's not the root of the argument. The argument is that a disproportionate amount of toxic players make up the community on red as opposed to blue.

Only because of global OOC... introduce that to blue and I'm sure something similar will happen :/

[Brut]

Had it half of classic, worst we rly got was erotic gore fanfic spammer.

[Aviann]

Only because of global OOC... introduce that to blue and I'm sure something similar will happen :/

I think you are missing the point. 700 toxic players out of 1000 is still less than 75 toxic players out of 100 on the ratio. At least on blue you have a bigger opportunity to find a small collect of individuals to enjoy the game with, while on red you have a way bigger chance of running into one of said 'toxic players', and they have the opportunity to grief you to oblivion.

I believe blue is going downhill as well with all the guild drama bullshit that happens everyday and the extremely poor way that the problems are being dealt with, but it isn't as bad as getting nothing done on red because you are being griefed by 1% of the population.

[Swish]

I think you are missing the point. 700 toxic players out of 1000 is still less than 75 toxic players out of 100 on the ratio. At least on blue you have a bigger opportunity to find a small collect of individuals to enjoy the game with, while on red you have a way bigger chance of running into one of said 'toxic players', and they have the opportunity to grief you to oblivion.

I believe blue is going downhill as well with all the guild drama bullshit that happens everyday and the extremely poor way that the problems are being dealt with, but it isn't as bad as getting nothing done on red because you are being griefed by 1% of the population.

Well its different on red. If you get killed 1v4 and the yellow text gives out the result (you were killed by Soandso), it looks like a 1v1 etc.

I challenge anyone not to defend that death as an unfair fight, to not say anything in ooc and take the reputation hit (particularly if a cleric got the killing blow or something).

A lot of ooc is just that, speculation about the yellow text...what really happened, who is lying, who is right, and such ;)

If that's toxic then okay... you get used to it :p

[Aviann]

Well its different on red. If you get killed 1v4 and the yellow text gives out the result (you were killed by Soandso), it looks like a 1v1 etc.

I challenge anyone not to defend that death as an unfair fight, to not say anything in ooc and take the reputation hit (particularly if a cleric got the killing blow or something).

A lot of ooc is just that, speculation about the yellow text...what really happened, who is lying, who is right, and such ;)

If that's toxic then okay... you get used to it :p

I'm not worried about unfair fights. I am worried about what is at hand, griefing. The server is full of it, especially at lower levels. I've played for years on blue, and even tried red before returning to blue, and then quitting all together because of the drama bullshit that happens on both servers.

[fastboy21]

What I want is a pvp server that is exactly like pve.

[Rec]

a pvp server with 1200 people on it?

[K_Solstice]

I gave Red a try. I didn't hit issues of griefing in the short time I played but the empty zones and lack of players turned me off. Feels like not enough players on Blue as it is as I level up. I suspect the higher end and raiding is different/reversed.

[Clark]

I think you are missing the point. 700 toxic players out of 1000 is still less than 75 toxic players out of 100 on the ratio. At least on blue you have a bigger opportunity to find a small collect of individuals to enjoy the game with, while on red you have a way bigger chance of running into one of said 'toxic players', and they have the opportunity to grief you to oblivion.

I believe blue is going downhill as well with all the guild drama bullshit that happens everyday and the extremely poor way that the problems are being dealt with, but it isn't as bad as getting nothing done on red because you are being griefed by 1% of the population.

Haven't liked a lot of your posts lately, but agree with this one. Overall folks seemed nicer 09-11 seems like there's been a big shift in the number of folks acting entitled.

[Lime]

Some people just want to roleplay, socialize, and slay monsters while you camp some items and sit back and sip some wine while you watch your friends on facebook taking the ALS ice bucket challenge. If you are this kind of person and you do not enjoy confrontation with others, or you have thin skin and find someone getting the upper hand on you or pushing you out of a zone extremely demoralizing then you should probably stay away.

But if you are the kind of person that wants to test your mettle against other players, and enjoy the thrill of the hunt, then the Red experience can give you something that you can't get on blue, fighting real people that think and make decisions. High intensity fights on red can give you an adrenaline rush that you can not find on the blue server or most games these days where everyone's a winner. Everyone is not a winner on the red server, and if you show up with your B-Game not only are you not going to get a runner's up trophy but you are going to get destroyed and people are going to take pictures and video of your beating and put it to music on the forums for people to mock.

Yes the red server has a small community and it has some scummy people just as the blue server does, but I can say in this cesspool of roaming marauders and cutpurses I have found some brothers in arms to do battle with. If somehow you ever stand against insurmountable odds and manage to pull victory from the clutches of your enemies clenched gluttonous fist, only then will you understand why we play here. You will not find an experience like this in Call of Duty, or any new age RPG.

After experiencing this server, where skill is just as important as time investment, you may look back and find the blue server boring and dull. You also might find it more inviting than you remember it, as you go running back to your "Safe Place" where atleast you can use the bathroom without having to log out. Lastly you may also find that you are now a turncoat who they call the brigand of Unrest with only your trusty Ragebringer at your side and a chip on your shoulder. The type of person that sends people running back to the blue server kicking and screaming and scares children and lesser men at the grocery store checkout line.

[Aviann]

Haven't liked a lot of your posts lately, but agree with this one. Overall folks seemed nicer 09-11 seems like there's been a big shift in the number of folks acting entitled.
Truth.

[Swish]

http://media.giphy.com/media/AUhsLmzr2tl4s/giphy.gif

http://i.imgur.com/DkLBQJw.gif

[t0lkien]

No.

Some people just don't want to PvP. End of story.

... but that's not going to stop the endless recruitment posts and passive aggressive sales pitches from the Red diehards.

[iruinedyourday]

if only there was someone who could unite the clans.

[Swish]

If you enjoyed playing a game but could do something to help improve it, wouldn't you?

[kevoh]

This is why I will never play on Red:

Blue Server Pop **RIGHT NOW**: 681

Red Server Pop **RIGHT NOW**: 81

[iruinedyourday]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25736152/EQ/unite-the-clans-o.gif

[Swish]

This is why I will never play on Red:

Blue Server Pop **RIGHT NOW**: 681

Red Server Pop **RIGHT NOW**: 81

would you play on red if the numbers were 681 red?

[Rec]

I would say it would depend totally if those 681 players were all lvl 60 or not. On blue it's not the case, there are tons of low level people to group with and you don't have the single player experience that is the Red server. If I want a single player rpg i'll play something really amazing like Wizardry 8.

Anyone who only plays a lvl 60 character every day on Red is part of the problem and not the solution. You could even think you're totally being a nice guy, handing out stuff to new players, but that's not what they really need. They need someone to play with.

[Bboboo]

If you enjoyed playing a game but could do something to help improve it, wouldn't you?

I don't think the constant 'Play Red' posts on blue is helping to be honest.

[Swish]

I don't think the constant 'Play Red' posts on blue is helping to be honest.

I'm still more likely to help the red community by posting here versus a Sims 3 addon/mod forum (I hope)...

[Meg]

I don't play on Red because I'm already paranoid enough, I scare easily, and I'm a sore loser. I tried Red a few weeks ago and at level 2 I found myself running from level 1 newbies with nothing but starter gear. If I sat down to rest I spent the time constantly checking my six while mumbling incoherently about people coming to get me. My therapist says Red server won't do me any favors in real life.

[Yinikren]

I'd play if we could copy* characters over. Because then there's no harm, no foul when I end up leaving back to blue because the red population sucks.

*not transfer.

[fastboy21]

I'd play if we could copy* characters over. Because then there's no harm, no foul when I end up leaving back to blue because the red population sucks.

*not transfer.

I guess I would play if I could copy over...but this is a horrible idea. It would totally undermine the red server and ruin any community they have over there.

[Swish]

I don't play on Red because I'm already paranoid enough, I scare easily, and I'm a sore loser. I tried Red a few weeks ago and at level 2 I found myself running from level 1 newbies with nothing but starter gear. If I sat down to rest I spent the time constantly checking my six while mumbling incoherently about people coming to get me. My therapist says Red server won't do me any favors in real life.

First thing you should do when you make a red character? /anon ;)

Low level paranoia is part of it, particularly if you're alone and there's others in the zone.

Most often if someone does engage you, they won't corpse camp (and its agains the PNP anyway if they do)...and they'll be friendly afterwards. Sounds weird, but it shows that people aren't all bad.

What you need to do Meg is log back in there, and just go for it... engage that gnome rogue and make the fight happen. If you win, say "good fight", if you lose say "gg wp" or something. If they're at a similar level range you'll find you make pals that way, and the XP bonus can only help both of you to level quicker.

[Bruno]

The community is 100% of the reason I don't play pvp anymore, not the leveling experience or because I got pvp'd. I played on rallos live and through 3 resets on VZ/TZ emu. You can only deal with this pvp community for so long. It's just a miserable experience, especially since we're only getting older, and most of us more mature.

[Duckwalk]

I tried red and enjoyed parts of it. Other parts were unbearable.

The experience modifier is great and for anyone wanting to skips past the first twenty level and into the meat of a class, red is a great place to do just that. My necro went from 1 to mid 20s in a day of good groups.

Regarding the community, it was my experience that they were overall helpful or at worst ambivalent towards me. The existence of server wide /ooc allows a small number of bad apples to taint the reputation of the many. Often times those players are some of the vocal and visible on the forums as well. As a whole the community was a big plus, something I was not expecting.

What drove me away from the game was the lack of balance or perceived lack of balance in pvp.

Nothing worse than having one or several of the ~5 spells you can afford to cast get resisted because you're wearing nothing but starter robes. Or successfully landing a string of dots on a melee character to have them come crush you for more dmg a swing than half a bar of mana is ticking for. Or better yet watch them regen faster than you can do dmg.

Nothing I've seen has shown me that EQ pvp is anything more than direct dmg nukes or melee assist trains.

[Daldaen]

At no point in EQ did PvP have any semblance of balance among classes. And any attempts to change the server make it a custom server, no longer classic. The game is simply horrible for PvP combat. It relies hugely on RNG and hugely on time spent gathering pixels. There isn't much skill to it or a huge amount of strategy. If you're even geared it's just a matter of dice rolls. If you aren't even geared you are basically dead. A level 20 wizard in cloth won't kill a Ragebringer/fungi. And even if they did that Ragebringer/fungi player loses nothing. There is no risk of them losing their special twink gear at all so they just continue to grief.

[iruinedyourday]

A level 20 wizard in cloth won't kill a Ragebringer/fungi

A level 20 wizard in cloth wouldn't even kill a ranger/fungi.

[Zalaerian]

Changes have been made to keep some semblance of balance like golem wands and recharging which both were needed badly as Classic was a shit show of wanding nets and hoops

[Swish]

It relies hugely on RNG and hugely on time spent gathering pixels. There isn't much skill to it or a huge amount of strategy. If you're even geared it's just a matter of dice rolls. If you aren't even geared you are basically dead.

You seem to be applying this exclusively to red?

[iruinedyourday]

You seem to be applying this exclusively to red?

well to be fair on blue that person who spent all that time gathering pixels will buff you, or join your group and pull like crazy, instead of kick the living crap out of you :)

[Swish]

Same thing applies to pve content though. If you're not geared for "Raid X" then you're gonna have a bad time.

[daasgoot]

Same thing applies to pve content though. If you're not geared for "Raid X" then you're gonna have a bad time.

On blue you don't have NPC's walking around geared with fungi/cof/wurmy/etc.. either.

a blue con player could completely destroy me on red without me doing a shred of dmg to them(solely based on gear). that is difference.

[iruinedyourday]

Same thing applies to pve content though. If you're not geared for "Raid X" then you're gonna have a bad time.

yea but raid X is a lot less casual than - I wanted to pick morning due and tra la la through the forest after work toda--DEVOURED BY A TROLL

[Daldaen]

You seem to be applying this exclusively to red?

Rarely are you pitted against another player in game in direct "competition". The only time you really are is an FFA/Class C mob. And for those gear level doesn't factor in much at all. By that level players have decent gear and a basic resist set. If we had classic 255 resist cap it would matter even less.

And I use competition very loosely there.

Pixels and time spent certainly happen on blue. But it doesn't affect much of how others play the game. Someone having a fungi twink on red makes them pretty unkillable against an untwinked. Allowing them free reign to kill you and take your limited plat. If you got together some other untwinked and managed to overpower that twink you get some yellow text but no items to loot and he won't be carrying much coin on his alt so thats pretty useless. Preventing you from even exping or experiencing certain zones. Like unrest...

Someone having a fungi twink on blue doesn't influence too much at all. Just maybe there are less mobs available since they are killing more.

[Swish]

Rarely are you pitted against another player in game in direct "competition". The only time you really are is an FFA/Class C mob. And for those gear level doesn't factor in much at all. By that level players have decent gear and a basic resist set. If we had classic 255 resist cap it would matter even less.

And I use competition very loosely there.

Pixels and time spent certainly happen on blue. But it doesn't affect much of how others play the game. Someone having a fungi twink on red makes them pretty unkillable against an untwinked. Allowing them free reign to kill you and take your limited plat. If you got together some other untwinked and managed to overpower that twink you get some yellow text but no items to loot and he won't be carrying much coin on his alt so thats pretty useless. Preventing you from even exping or experiencing certain zones. Like unrest...

Someone having a fungi twink on blue doesn't influence too much at all. Just maybe there are less mobs available since they are killing more.

As an aside to that, nobody with any sense walks around with more than 20pp on them on red, ports (and such) are paid for in peridots or other gems.

[no chewie dont]

On blue you don't have NPC's walking around geared with fungi/cof/wurmy/etc.. either.

a blue con player could completely destroy me on red without me doing a shred of dmg to them(solely based on gear). that is difference.

false
example:
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee432/robn3030/yikes_zpsa5e68c3d.jpg

[Daldaen]

Yes. But some caster exping in unrest (or any dungeon farish away from a bank) for example, the plat he would loot is far more valuable to him than the likely 0 plat a fungi twinked melee would have.

But still. Red is stupidly unbalanced, and any attempts to fix that become a custom server cause it was just like that during classic. Item loot would discourage or at least put some concern in twinking and griefing noobs. Even if bagquestting, still there's a chance you as a non twink could come up big if you teamed up and downed a twink. Whereas right now there isn't much benefit to winning that fight.

This is one of the many reasons people don't try red. Also why it will never have more than 200 people online.

[iruinedyourday]

false
example:
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee432/robn3030/yikes_zpsa5e68c3d.jpg

Item loot should be a thing, you'd be stoked right there....

[no chewie dont]

IKR!!!!!!!

[HippoNipple]

On blue you don't have NPC's walking around geared with fungi/cof/wurmy/etc.. either.

a blue con player could completely destroy me on red without me doing a shred of dmg to them(solely based on gear). that is difference.

Maybe things will change in the future but resists mean little right now outside of MR meaning casters can nuke anybody.

Melee still hit hard but most classes can get away still. The gear gap isn't huge in classic/kunark and you are able to catch up quick.

If you started on Red now with the goal of raiding you would be decked out in raid gear much faster than if you are playing on blue. Exp bonus, no real penalty for pvp death, not much competition at end game (dragons are currently being left up), and raiding guilds always recruit.

[loramin]

Don't hate on the recruitment threads, it's just a bunch of us who'd like to see the community grow.

But Swish, your threads aren't making the community grow, just look at the numbers. Red's a bucket, and you're (very slowly) pouring more people in to it with your threads ... but the bucket is full of holes. It doesn't matter how successful (or not) your recruitment threads are: until someone fixes those holes, the population will just keep leaking out.

A lot of emphasis there on being able to be killed in your starting area. Consider how long you're there, versus your time in other places later on.
Consider that everyone starts in a starting area, and if they don't enjoy playing there they probably won't keep playing on the server ... which makes it 100% of the time they spend on the server.

EQ pvp isn't ez mode WoW pvp with quick respawns/access to corpses/etc.
Once again, I don't expect Red to become WoW, but if Red were to learn a thing or two from WoW it could really help. For instance, disabling PvP in starting areas.

But it is fun.
... so much fun you need to constantly beg people to replace the last batch of players who had so much fun on it that they left.

[Colgate]

At no point in EQ did PvP have any semblance of balance among classes. And any attempts to change the server make it a custom server, no longer classic. The game is simply horrible for PvP combat. It relies hugely on RNG and hugely on time spent gathering pixels. There isn't much skill to it or a huge amount of strategy. If you're even geared it's just a matter of dice rolls. If you aren't even geared you are basically dead. A level 20 wizard in cloth won't kill a Ragebringer/fungi. And even if they did that Ragebringer/fungi player loses nothing. There is no risk of them losing their special twink gear at all so they just continue to grief.

ya i literally can't even read any more of this guy's posts because he is so insanely misinformed

should've seen the "enchanters suck because dispels get resisted 100% of the time" post as a huge red flag for this retard

[Duckwalk]

What's he misinformed about

The relative disparity between melee and casters (especially twinked) seems pretty accurate to me who spent the majority of my time on red as a 20-30s necro trying to find groups in popular dungeons.

[HippoNipple]

But Swish, your threads aren't making the community grow, just look at the numbers. Red's a bucket, and you're (very slowly) pouring more people in to it with your threads ... but the bucket is full of holes. It doesn't matter how successful (or not) your recruitment threads are: until someone fixes those holes, the population will just keep leaking out.


Consider that everyone starts in a starting area, and if they don't enjoy playing there they probably won't keep playing on the server ... which makes it 100% of the time they spend on the server.


Once again, I don't expect Red to become WoW, but if Red were to learn a thing or two from WoW it could really help. For instance, disabling PvP in starting areas.


... so much fun you need to constantly beg people to replace the last batch of players who had so much fun on it that they left.

I messed around in FoB last night on Red with a new char and everyone had fun. We had a full group of 6, 2 of us were established and 4 new players to the server. Some twink came by and pked a necro in cloth in our group and then we all PvPed for about 20 minutes.

After a bit it ended in a stale mate since the fight made it to the guards. Other guy logged and we went back to exping.

With group/exp bonus and PvP we got like 8 levels in 2 hours. I bet if we were on blue we would have gotten maybe 5 levels.

I understand the attitude of thinking it will be overwhelming because of the head start others have gotten but you are wrong. New players make it fine and actually progress much quicker than they would on blue.

[Duckwalk]

Clearly things change some in upper levels with a larger mana pool and wider spell selection but by that time melee have access to better gear/ratios/resists/consumables too.

[Colgate]

he's misinformed on the idea that enchanters are worthless, that there's no skill involved at all, that if you have worse gear than your opponent you're guaranteed to lose, that even gear is a roll of the dice

twinks still get killed by undergeared people, regardless of whether or not you think they're invincible

[Duckwalk]

The only twinks I ever saw die were killed by the melee in my group as said twink chased me oom around the pond in MM. And even then it was a 6:1 death ratio between me and the twink.

But I guess no one is contesting the relative weakness of (most) casters at this point in the timeline.

[loramin]

I messed around in FoB last night on Red with a new char and everyone had fun. We had a full group of 6, 2 of us were established and 4 new players to the server. Some twink came by and pked a necro in cloth in our group and then we all PvPed for about 20 minutes.
With group/exp bonus and PvP we got like 8 levels in 2 hours. I bet if we were on blue we would have gotten maybe 5 levels.


See, this is what every Red player's first experience should be like (except maybe the twink part; can't expect twinks to just constantly hang out in newbie areas). The unfortunate part is that currently some players get a starting experience like that, and some get ganked a couple times and quit.

Now, imagine that PvPing was disabled in starting areas, and every player got to have a starting experience like Hippo's. Imagine how many more people would make it past their first few levels on the server.

[Daldaen]

he's misinformed on the idea that enchanters are worthless, that there's no skill involved at all, that if you have worse gear than your opponent you're guaranteed to lose, that even gear is a roll of the dice

twinks still get killed by undergeared people, regardless of whether or not you think they're invincible

Where have I discussed enchanters... Ever? Atleast in regards to PvP?

There really isn't much skill. Nor is there in PvE for that matter. Just those who understand game mechanics and those who don't.

A caster in cloth will get destroyed 19/20 times by a melee with fungi and decent weapons. 15/regen a tic is ridiculously OP at the lower end levels.

Every single aspect of the game is an RNG roll. Spells landing, melee landing... A lot of it comes down to luck whether you want to believe that or not. Having the misfortune to roll a 10% three times in a row and get full resists on important spells can make you lose a fight. Purely based on luck.

[HippoNipple]

See, this is what every Red player's first experience should be like (except maybe the twink part; can't expect twinks to just constantly hang out in newbie areas). The unfortunate part is that currently some players get a starting experience like that, and some get ganked a couple times and quit.

Now, imagine that PvPing was disabled in starting areas, and every player got to have a starting experience like Hippo's. Imagine how many more people would make it past their first few levels on the server.

Twinks don't hang out in starting areas. Twink PKs with epics/fungi hang out in mistmoore, unrest, guk and CoM. If you want to avoid those places you will be fine. I bet exp is halted more on blue because of twinks/PL problems in those areas.

If you see a twink in a starting area on red they are probably leveling up themselves and with the group exp bonus you might even get to join them. As I said in my example me and another in our group were established and were grouped with 4 others starting out. We had 2 fungis in our group.

The PK in FoB wasn't hugely twinked but still creamed the necro in cloth in a couple hits (I think the necro was level 4 at the time). The PK probably had on like 5-10k worth of gear. I think he was just someone else wanting to level up that decided to do some PvP before he logged.

[HippoNipple]

Where have I discussed enchanters... Ever? Atleast in regards to PvP?

There really isn't much skill. Nor is there in PvE for that matter. Just those who understand game mechanics and those who don't.

A caster in cloth will get destroyed 19/20 times by a melee with fungi and decent weapons. 15/regen a tic is ridiculously OP at the lower end levels.

Every single aspect of the game is an RNG roll. Spells landing, melee landing... A lot of it comes down to luck whether you want to believe that or not. Having the misfortune to roll a 10% three times in a row and get full resists on important spells can make you lose a fight. Purely based on luck.

As a naked wizard you can cast Ice Comet on someone with 100+ cold resist and it still lands for 750 dmg. If you have levi on and are able to cast some yonders/draughts you can do fine against a melee with a fungi.

[Daldaen]

As a naked wizard you can cast Ice Comet on someone with 100+ cold resist and it still lands for 750 dmg. If you have levi on and are able to cast some yonders/draughts you can do fine against a melee with a fungi.
You're talking about Ice Comet and twinks with fungis. When Ice Comet is on the table obviously fungi is less valuable. But fungis can be put on any level toon.

And aren't they currently trying to fix resist to be more classic in this thread:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159728
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1573972&postcount=227

To make it so that with decent resists nukes will do not much and casters continue to be crushed by melee in PvP? If that's classic, then it reverts to my point about how PvP was always terribly unbalanced in EQ. Some expansions casters crushed, some melee were ridiculous.

Again being a total RNG luck crapshoot:

resist
1082
resist
125
753
resist
765
1082
860
152
159
resist
288
1082
1082
resist
resist
resist
1082
138

You could get the red streak and kill a player handily. Or the blue streak and be dead. It's the same for melees you can have bad streaks of low hits and misses or high hits and crits. PvP if you want to call it balanced and skillful you have to remove random effects. EQ is horrible at that since it's based on DnD which is almost exclusively dice rolls.

[Colgate]

Where have I discussed enchanters... Ever? Atleast in regards to PvP?

o nvm looked back and it was that chest guy, sorry, you're p much the same person in my eyes tho

There really isn't much skill. ... Just those who understand game mechanics and those who don't.

haha okay, sure thing bud

[Colgate]

Again being a total RNG luck crapshoot:



You could get the red streak and kill a player handily. Or the blue streak and be dead. It's the same for melees you can have bad streaks of low hits and misses or high hits and crits. PvP if you want to call it balanced and skillful you have to remove random effects. EQ is horrible at that since it's based on DnD which is almost exclusively dice rolls.

you're quoting the results of a resist system that isn't finalized and they're working on a new iteration of

classic resist mechanics aren't as RNG based as you think, which is what haynar is in the process of coding

[captnamazing]

I tried red and realized that it's just a sick place to be

[iruinedyourday]

But Swish, your threads aren't making the community grow, just look at the numbers. Red's a bucket, and you're (very slowly) pouring more people in to it with your threads ... but the bucket is full of holes. It doesn't matter how successful (or not) your recruitment threads are: until someone fixes those holes, the population will just keep leaking out.


Consider that everyone starts in a starting area, and if they don't enjoy playing there they probably won't keep playing on the server ... which makes it 100% of the time they spend on the server.


Once again, I don't expect Red to become WoW, but if Red were to learn a thing or two from WoW it could really help. For instance, disabling PvP in starting areas.


... so much fun you need to constantly beg people to replace the last batch of players who had so much fun on it that they left.

you should spend less time trying to deconstruct swish and his love for red server and just move on with your life.

The people that qq about red recruitment are way worse than the people that ask for you to join red.

ffs you get 1 red recruitment post and then you get 50 bumps of qq.

Its just eq boys and gals, its all the same.

[Daldaen]

you're quoting the results of a resist system that isn't finalized and they're working on a new iteration of

classic resist mechanics aren't as RNG based as you think, which is what haynar is in the process of coding

I agree that he is working on it and you were bug testing his first fix. But talk to me when they're finalized and repeat those tests.

I'm almost positive there will be streaks of several full resists and several max hits, based off dice rolls.

[Colgate]

in a classic resist system? no, there won't be max hits

[HippoNipple]

I agree that he is working on it and you were bug testing his first fix. But talk to me when they're finalized and repeat those tests.

I'm almost positive there will be streaks of several full resists and several max hits, based off dice rolls.

The only way your scenario plays out as complete range is if we are talking about a 1 v 1 in the middle of the zone where both people stand still and hit each other.

I know PvP scares off some people. The point of these threads is to get people to give it a shot because a lot of people end up enjoying it after avoiding it out of fear.

Arguing that you think there should be a formula for a nuke and its damage on an opponent with x amount of resist providing a constant output of damage vs some sort of range is irrelevant.

There are a lot of things that suck about blue too like over crowding, PL in every zone, twinks not grouping with hybrids, the raid scene at end game, farmers holding spots 24/7, etc. Red has none of that and can bring a lot of positives that some people may not realize. You are correct that twinks in unrest are a con but it ends up being a very small fraction of your experience if you actually play on the server.

[Daldaen]

in a classic resist system? no, there won't be max hits

They won't be max as in the full value of the spell, but the maximum allowable hit in PvP. Whether that's 60% of the base or what have you.

It still comes down to did my dice roll get me a full resist (waste of mana generally speaking), or a full hit.

I don't think there should be a formula. I'm saying a formula would make it balanced, but not classic. Going back to my point. Classic PvP is far from balanced. Some classes like warrior blow. While some like bard are ridiculously awesome.

[Malone88]

There are a lot of things that suck about blue too like over crowding, PL in every zone, twinks not grouping with hybrids, the raid scene at end game, farmers holding spots 24/7, etc. Red has none of that and can bring a lot of positives that some people may not realize. You are correct that twinks in unrest are a con but it ends up being a very small fraction of your experience if you actually play on the server.
This is it in a nutshell...well said.

Plenty of good peeps on red. Group with them in ANY zone you want for
crazy XP. Enjoy PVP vs griefers with your group. It's all about making
friends, which to me is what EQ is all about...

Top PVPers are NOT twinked out melees with fungis, but wizards, and I
don't think these wizards are over-the-top geared, they just know how
to play their class really well.

[Atalya]

The mindset is all wrong though loramin. You're trying to avoid the full pvp experience by only trying to pve.

If you zone into say.... Mistmoore, and you see someone there on half health sat down not giving any shits about where they are - you don't have to pvp them, but you need to be aware that its possible.

You can kill them, take their coin and leave... or stay, let them loot their corpse, and they'll leave and go somewhere else or camp out.

The "pvp happened to me, I don't like it" mentality needs some work - you should be initiating pvp as well...and the first fight you win is as good as any dragon kill or epic quest completion in terms of the rush (especially if it was close).

...and trust me, you'll want it again ;)

Make pals, know your enemies... and learn the right strategies. It's the same game you always loved, but its a whole new game at the same time <3

Keep begging for people to come on your shitty server. I feel warm inside everytime i login and see (26 players currently online ) for Red

[Malone88]

Keep begging for people to come on your shitty server. I feel warm inside everytime i login and see (26 players currently online ) for Red

I feel warm inside knowing that there's some bluebie LFG in Karnor's not doing crap for hours because thats their only option for XP. I'll get more XP with a duo on red in one day than this person will get in a week or
maybe even a month.

There are at TON of benefits to a low server population...

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

This is it in a nutshell...well said.

Plenty of good peeps on red. Group with them in ANY zone you want for
crazy XP. Enjoy PVP vs griefers with your group. It's all about making
friends, which to me is what EQ is all about...

Top PVPers are NOT twinked out melees with fungis, but wizards, and I
don't think these wizards are over-the-top geared, they just know how
to play their class really well.

Nailed it.

Yeah there's some shitty RNG to pvp. It's just the way it is but overall the server is a blast and is a welcome breath of fresh air from the piece of shit poster above me who is over represented in end-game blue.

I'm currently bringing back up my stocks of plat but if you need a helping hand getting started with spell money or other small boosts I can probably help. Bring some friends, roll some toons and experience something different. You'll have a blast.

*edit* two posts above me lol

[Atalya]

I feel warm inside knowing that there's some bluebie LFG in Karnor's not doing crap for hours because thats their only option for XP. I'll get more XP with a duo on red in one day than this person will get in a week or
maybe even a month.

There are at TON of benefits to a low server population...

And after you get all those exps and all the loot you want you'll have 17 people not in your group to show it all off to.. Man sign me up for Retarded (i mean Red) now

[Malone88]

And after you get all those exps and all the loot you want you'll have 17 people not in your group to show it all off to.. Man sign me up for Retarded (i mean Red) now

No, I'll have 17 people who are on my friends list who I actually play with regularly to show it off to...

[Swish]

Keep begging for people to come on your shitty server. I feel warm inside everytime i login and see (26 players currently online ) for Red

I think I'm misunderstood here. I play both servers, have done for a long time. Just because I'm trying to help the underpopulated one doesn't mean I hate the other :)

...and thank you for the kind words <3

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Fashionquest confirmed srs bsns

[Swish]

For you Atalya... just for you...

http://i.imgur.com/qVBZLHL.gif

http://i.imgur.com/VLd4gi1.gif

http://i.imgur.com/oQxnhfH.gif

http://i.imgur.com/U9yQAjH.gif

http://i.imgur.com/1fqHXLI.gif




http://i.imgur.com/SRykQRe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/irZisre.gif

[Atalya]

Its funny your server is so awful you actually have 10 animated gifs you've already created in hopes to recruit people... Pretty successful from the 30 people currently online

[iruinedyourday]

Its funny your server is so awful you actually have 10 animated gifs you've already created in hopes to recruit people... Pretty successful from the 30 people currently online

qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqq

[Swish]

Its funny your server is so awful you actually have 10 animated gifs you've already created in hopes to recruit people... Pretty successful from the 30 people currently online

10 is just the picture limit on 1 post, there's always more but didn't want you popping veins over there.

[iruinedyourday]

10 is just the picture limit on 1 post, there's always more but didn't want you popping veins over there.

You're always doing more than any of the haters do!

[Swish]

You're always doing more than any of the haters do!

What's sad is there can't just be a little tolerance, that's all.

Deep down in everyone's hearts there's a small part of you that says

"I don't like the red server, but good luck to those guys...I'll take the silver lining knowing that at least I won't be "griefed/harassed" on blue by them. If that means the occasional red recruitment post that's a fair deal and I'll just not click on it"

But you silence that, open up the thread and start angrily typing :p

[SenoraRaton]

I think there is a certain limit to the amount your able to recruit before it becomes obnoxious. Some people seem to have reached the conclusion that you have crossed that line Swish. I think if nothing else it's a pause to consider the effectiveness of your tactics. Otherwise a joke gone too far isn't very funny anymore.

[LizardNecro]

FFA pvp is fundamentally flawed. The main issues are twofold:

* OOR clerics healing your target. This (and the related problem of cross team healing on vt/tz) is the main reason I never played on rallos. You can't have people helping your target that you can't attack.

* No friends. The team makeup of SZ brings about very strong ties. I found that people on my team were (in general) much more helpful than people on blue servers. On SZ, you never knew when you might REALLY need someone. So it incentivised people to help each other, group together. On an FFA pvp server, people are incentivised to solo, because you never know when a random person might kill you.

I think the red99 server is a great idea, and I hope it does well. I don't think it's for me, even though I had a great time on SZ. For me, it would have to be a teams server that has no "immortal healing". That would give the environment an incentive to pve together (teams) as well as a good incentive to pvp (no immortal healers).

[no chewie dont]

real life is ffa y shouldnt eq b?

[loramin]

real life is ffa y shouldnt eq b?

Exactly, you can totally do whatever you want in real life. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a court date to attend regarding that thing I did to my neighbor (who totally deserved it).

[iruinedyourday]

Exactly, you can totally do whatever you want in real life. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a court date to attend regarding that thing I did to my neighbor (who totally deserved it).

Well, replace the word "kinda" with the word "repeatedly," and the word "dog" with "son."

[Emile]

I'd roll red if I didn't think that all the begging people to roll red was just because you guys need fresh meat to bind camp with your twinks.

[loramin]

Well, replace the word "kinda" with the word "repeatedly," and the word "dog" with "son."

I didn't even use the word "dog" ... but now I kinda wish I had.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Well, replace the word "kinda" with the word "repeatedly," and the word "dog" with "son."

A+ lionel hutz quote

[iruinedyourday]

I didn't even use the word "dog" ... but now I kinda wish I had.

rofl the full scene.. its a shame u cant link to clips of Simpsons more easily or there might just be world peace.

Lionel Hutz: Now don't you worry, Mrs. Simpson, I... uh-oh. We've drawn Judge Snyder.
Marge: Is that bad?
Lionel Hutz: Well, he's had it in for me ever since I kinda ran over his dog.
Marge: You did?
Lionel Hutz: Well, replace the word "kinda" with the word "repeatedly," and the word "dog" with "son."

[loramin]

Ahhhh, I remember that one now. Totally wish I'd thrown dog in :(

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I approve

[iruinedyourday]

Judge Snyder... lolz

such a brilliant disgruntled judge name.

[August]

Also that would be unfair to the pvpers who had to deal with pvp leveling up.

I took this completely out of context but just pointing out that any system you devise that favors the current incumbents will never entice newcomers to roll on red. You have to be disproportionately fair to newcomers at the detriment of the currently entrenched, else why would anyone start on an option they knew existed but purposefully avoided?

[Swish]

Busted in crypt group just now :rolleyes:

http://i.imgur.com/cRBacC7.gif

[Swish]

Also I'm getting a real feeling I need to tone it down on the recruitment for red, by people on the forums, in Sirken's stream last night and other places.

But you guys shouldn't not try because you think you'll be ganked repeatedly and griefed off the server. I'll help you with basic gear if I can <3

[iruinedyourday]

Busted in crypt group just now :rolleyes:

http://i.imgur.com/cRBacC7.gif

http://mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/pals-251x300.jpg

to the grave swish, to the grave.

[Tenloar]

I'd roll red if I didn't think that all the begging people to roll red was just because you guys need fresh meat to bind camp with your twinks.

This. I too feel like you want some more fresh meat to PvP with. Which is exactly the point I guess, being a PvP server and all.

[Atalya]

Also I'm getting a real feeling I need to tone it down on the recruitment for red, by people on the forums, in Sirken's stream last night and other places.

But you guys shouldn't not try because you think you'll be ganked repeatedly and griefed off the server. I'll help you with basic gear if I can <3

can you start with fisting yourself with a bronze scythe?

[Malone88]

I'd roll red if I didn't think that all the begging people to roll red was just because you guys need fresh meat to bind camp with your twinks.

It's really not that at all. I have a 48 Wiz and a 37 bard and have been ganked 3X during that time....3!!!!
Pick the right class and zones to XP in and you
can avoid a lot of PvP. Melees classes, aside from bard, are tougher because
you can't gate or levi to escape. Wouldn't start with one of those because
you can't farm with them either. Same deal as on blue.

The benefits are really worth it. Having an "emptier" server really has its benefits.
Usually with global OOC you can find just enough folks to group with...even a duo
will get you sweet XP. You can farm whatever you want, when you want. I'd say about 85%
of the people I've met are not into the PvP part of it. It's a very good
community.

PVP can be avoided even more if you don't go to popular dungeons: Unrest, MM,
CoM, and KC. Just means you gotta look for some new zones, but the group bonus XP
far outweighs any ZEM benefits. Also, just doesn't matter if you lose XP on
death, because you gain it back in just a few kills with your group/duo.

I don't guarantee you won't have a rough night every once in awhile and be forced to
switch to an alt, but those are pretty rare.

[loramin]

I'd say about 85% of the people I've met are not into the PvP part of it. It's a very good community.

85% of the (already small) PvP server's population isn't "into" PvP?

That's got to be the most ringing endorsement of Red I've ever heard: "Come to the PvP server; almost no one actually PvPs here!"

[Swish]

Zoned into KC the other day, was probably there about 10 seconds before some gnome rogue came charging at me. It's there very much at the top end ;)

[Malone88]

85% of the (already small) PvP server's population isn't "into" PvP?

That's got to be the most ringing endorsement of Red I've ever heard: "Come to the PvP server; almost no one actually PvPs here!"

Not into PVP = Don't attack others unless provoked.

That better for ya?

[Daldaen]

Explain the loot and scoot rules exactly. I don't want to open the PvP forums they are too caustic and toxic.

If I kill a noob, and they call for loot and scoot... They have to leave the zone? The camp? For how long? Or does it mean that you killed them once, when they're back you can't kill them again for awhile and actually have to deal with them?

[Sampten]

Not into PVP = Don't attack others unless provoked.

That better for ya?

My problem with PVP is that there are a handful of D-bags who just ruin it for anybody else. Nothing is more annoying than watching newbies get a beat down from higher level folk. Some people get a kick out of it, I find it childish.

I never have been one that's into PVP for that reason. In fact, when GTA 5 got online mode, I decided to check it out. I hadn't been in the game for 10 minutes and somebody offed me. I respawned at the hospital and I hadn't taken 20 steps outside it and somebody offed me again. Respawn at same hospital...guess what, was picked off. Needless to say I never played GTA5 online mode again, nor will I.

The thought/idea of a PVP server doesn't interest me. Make another server like FV where there is the language barrier (no common tongue) and no such thing as "no drop", and I'd join that in a heartbeat.

[indiscriminate_hater]

My problem with PVP is that there are a handful of D-bags who just ruin it for anybody else. Nothing is more annoying than watching newbies get a beat down from higher level folk. Some people get a kick out of it, I find it childish.

I never have been one that's into PVP for that reason. In fact, when GTA 5 got online mode, I decided to check it out. I hadn't been in the game for 10 minutes and somebody offed me. I respawned at the hospital and I hadn't taken 20 steps outside it and somebody offed me again. Respawn at same hospital...guess what, was picked off. Needless to say I never played GTA5 online mode again, nor will I.

The thought/idea of a PVP server doesn't interest me. Make another server like FV where there is the language barrier (no common tongue) and no such thing as "no drop", and I'd join that in a heartbeat.

you sound like you give up easily

[Malone88]

Explain the loot and scoot rules exactly. I don't want to open the PvP forums they are too caustic and toxic.

If I kill a noob, and they call for loot and scoot... They have to leave the zone? The camp? For how long? Or does it mean that you killed them once, when they're back you can't kill them again for awhile and actually have to deal with them?

When you get killed in PVP, call "LNS" in OOC or in the zone you were killed in and that player can't kill you again while you loot your corpse. You loot and leave the zone and can't come back for an hour.

[Sampten]

you sound like you give up easily

Hardly...I just have a low tolerance for D-bags. The perception of PVP is that it's riddled with D-bags.

Sorry but I don't see the "fun" in killing lvl 1s or 10s when you're lvl 50. I don't see the point of it, at all. What's it accomplish? What's the purpose? The purpose is somebody who started on Day 1 just wants to screw with people. Right...well good for them, maybe they ought to find something better to do with their time.

In the GTA5 instance, Do I see the fun in being insta-killed and then having others stake out the respawn point (hospitals) to pick off whomever comes out of them? No, it's stupid. It's childish, it's unnecessary.

And that's why PVP populations are low.

[Malone88]

Sorry but I don't see the "fun" in killing lvl 1s or 10s when you're lvl 50.

On red, can only PVP others who are +/- 4 levels from your own. They
can only loot your coin, so if you are smart, you bank often or buy gems.
No XP loss on PVP death either.

[loramin]

I never have been one that's into PVP for that reason. In fact, when GTA 5 got online mode, I decided to check it out. I hadn't been in the game for 10 minutes and somebody offed me. I respawned at the hospital and I hadn't taken 20 steps outside it and somebody offed me again. Respawn at same hospital...guess what, was picked off. Needless to say I never played GTA5 online mode again, nor will I.
you sound like you give up easily

This is a game man, it's supposed to be fun. If you play a game for awhile and you're not having fun, you should quit and go play something else that is fun. If you're mentality is "I'm going to keep suffering through this game as long as I can even though I'm not having fun" then something is wrong with your approach to games.

[Malone88]

This is a game man, it's supposed to be fun. If you play a game for awhile and you're not having fun, you should quit and go play something else that is fun. If you're mentality is "I'm going to keep suffering through this game as long as I can even though I'm not having fun" then something is wrong with your approach to games.

What's "fun" about sitting LFG in Karnor's every night (because thats the only zone to XP in for your level) hoping to get a group which will net you 1 blue of XP in three hours?

Been there, done that on blue...

[loramin]

What's "fun" about sitting LFG in Karnor's every night (because thats the only zone to XP in for your level) hoping to get a group which will net you 1 blue of XP in three hours?

Been there, done that on blue...

I'll admit, that's not fun, but it's not the server's fault. Norath is filled with places to hunt (http://wiki.project1999.com/Per-Level_Hunting_Guide). If no one needs you in Karnor's there's Sebilis. Or City of Mist, or Howling Stones, or even Chardok. And that's just the Kunark dungeons: there's outdoor zones (Skyfire, Burning Woods, Timorous Deep) or old world dungeons (Permafrost, Sol B, Kedge Keep) or even outdoor old world zones (er zone, Ocean of Tears).

Also, you don't need a full group to get XP, just a good duo or trio. And you don't have to wait for someone else to start one, you can start one yourself. So if you're sitting LFG in KC waiting for a group obviously that's not fun, but all you need to do to have fun is /tell someone "hey EQ has a ton of zones we can XP in, want to go duo in one?"

[Malone88]

I'll admit, that's not fun, but it's not the server's fault. Norath is filled with places to hunt (http://wiki.project1999.com/Per-Level_Hunting_Guide). If no one needs you in Karnor's there's Sebilis. Or City of Mist, or Howling Stones, or even Chardok. And that's just the Kunark dungeons: there's outdoor zones (Skyfire, Burning Woods, Timorous Deep) or old world dungeons (Permafrost, Sol B, Kedge Keep) or even outdoor old world zones (er zone, Ocean of Tears).

Also, you don't need a full group to get XP, just a good duo or trio. And you don't have to wait for someone else to start one, you can start one yourself. So if you're sitting LFG in KC waiting for a group obviously that's not fun, but all you need to do to have fun is /tell someone "hey EQ has a ton of zones we can XP in, want to go duo in one?"

Reality is:

1) You have to have the right class to make a good duo.
2) To move to other zones, you probably need a porter.
3) To move to other zones, you probably need a cleric because you
don't want it to be a negative XP night if you happen to die.
4) Most of those zones you listed are bring your own group, not duo.
5) Good luck doing any XPing in Chardok. (Chardok wide open on red, btw ;) )

Alot of folks, like myself, have a 2-4 hour window each night to play, so moving
to different zones chews up about half that time.

[Malone88]

Let's consider a similar scenario on red:

Global OOC: Group Looking for more! 50+

What zone you in? Burning Woods
Do you care what class? No, any class, no min-maxers
Do you have a cleric? No, XP so fast you will make up XP in 5 minutes if you die.
Any griefers there? No, they're too busy in CoM and KC.
On my way.

Chances are, you prob know half the people in the group already because you've
grouped with them before.

Only tough part might be finding a port, but I usually take care of that
because I can port. ;)

[iruinedyourday]

Let's consider a similar scenario on red:

Global OOC: Group Looking for more! 50+

What zone you in? Burning Woods
Do you care what class? No, any class, no min-maxers
Do you have a cleric? No, XP so fast you will make up XP in 5 minutes if you die.
Any griefers there? No, they're too busy in CoM and KC.
On my way.

Chances are, you prob know half the people in the group already because you've
grouped with them before.

Only tough part might be finding a port, but I usually take care of that
because I can port. ;)


you got an empty server and you choose BW to level in? lol wut

[loramin]

Reality is:

1) You have to have the right class to make a good duo.
2) To move to other zones, you probably need a porter.
3) To move to other zones, you probably need a cleric because you
don't want it to be a negative XP night if you happen to die.
4) Most of those zones you listed are bring your own group, not duo.
5) Good luck doing any XPing in Chardok. (Chardok wide open on red, btw ;) )

Alot of folks, like myself, have a 2-4 hour window each night to play, so moving
to different zones chews up about half that time.

I just see a lot of excuses there ;).

1) What exactly is the "wrong class" for a duo? Plus, there's always the option of a trio
2) This is true on any server. Plus, you gave the example of sitting in Karnor's, and (on Blue at least) druids are constantly porting out of there
3) I'm sorry, but if you need someone to follow you around and fix your boo boos when you mess up, maybe you should stick to six man groups. But I know a lot of other people explore Norath just fine without a pocket cleric.
4) Again, which zone exactly? Even in Sebilis a duo can do the entrance area.
5) Chardok is actually better than most zones, because so few people go there on account of the AOE groups. But if you do go there, you can pretty much take any camp you want and the AOE group has to avoid you.

[daasgoot]

Also I'm getting a real feeling I need to tone it down on the recruitment for red, by people on the forums, in Sirken's stream last night and other places.

But you guys shouldn't not try because you think you'll be ganked repeatedly and griefed off the server. I'll help you with basic gear if I can <3

although i don't like you(for some reason i can't remember) please keep the red recruitment gifs coming... they are amusing.

[loramin]

although i don't like you(for some reason i can't remember) please keep the red recruitment gifs coming... they are amusing.

With 84 people responding (and 58 concurring) Swish was crowned "official" GIF king of the server (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144059). So don't despair, even if his red recruitment threads go away I'm sure we'll still get plenty of amusing gifs from him.

[Malone88]

5) Chardok is actually better than most zones, because so few people go there on account of the AOE groups. But if you do go there, you can pretty much take any camp you want and the AOE group has to avoid you.

Sounds like it:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162186&highlight=Chardok

I'm sure TMO (or whoever the top guilds are now) will let you set up anywhere you want in Chardok while they're PLing their alts...

Most duos need some sort of a healer in dungeons.

Most casual gamers will want a cleric in group to keep group moving if someone dies and to not risk a negative XP experience for the night.

You have no guarantee that Seb entrance or any other spot you go to will already be camped.

[Kritimus]

Your xp bar moves on red server.

Tru story

[Swish]

With 84 people responding (and 58 concurring) Swish was crowned "official" GIF king of the server (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144059). So don't despair, even if his red recruitment threads go away I'm sure we'll still get plenty of amusing gifs from him.

The bottom line is I don't want people not to come to the forums anymore because they don't enjoy reading the threads here. So based on that I'm toning down the red recruitment gifs, although there's a ton of potential out there in gifland for some more great ones ;)

Obviously I could say "well, don't click on the red recruitment threads and the only person making you mad is you", but I know that's not how a lot of people think and I don't want to cause smashed keyboards, heart attacks or anything else detrimental to you guys, the "brother" you 2-box with, your pets....etc etc.

So wave goodbye to the red recruitment drive (for now, pending any big changes)... and hello to happy, sparkly gifs that'll put a smile on your face and keep your heart rate healthy <3

I love you guys :)

http://www.allgraphics123.com/ag/01/8454/8454.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4vkb5nMlV1qj3ir1.gif

[loramin]

Sounds like it:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162186&highlight=Chardok

I'm sure TMO (or whoever the top guilds are now) will let you set up anywhere you want in Chardok while they're PLing their alts...


If you actually read that link ...

No, Chardok AOE groups cannot take up the whole zone/train you if you wish to camp something in Chardok. Yes, this means if a few groups posted up in Chardok, the AOE group would be forced to share. No, there are no special rules in Chardok protecting AOE groups, period. They need to share like everyone else.





So wave goodbye to the red recruitment drive (for now, pending any big changes)... and hello to happy, sparkly gifs that'll put a smile on your face and keep your heart rate healthy <3

I love you guys :)

You stay classy Swish.

[Malone88]

you got an empty server and you choose BW to level in? lol wut

Sure, why not. I've never been to BW on blue except on the way to Chardok AE.
No ZEM to worry about because group XP covers it. Killing giants always fun.

I'm not trying to convince ANYBODY to play on red, I'm just relaying my experiences as a casual gamer who has spent extensive
time on both servers.

Most people who play on blue seem to think it's a gankfest starting right at level 1, which just isn't true. They also seem to think
that having an "empty" server is a bad thing, which just isn't true. As long as I have a person or two to group with, then it will be
an enjoyable experience probably in some zone I've never went to on blue.

Don't get me wrong. There are still plenty of toxic players on red, but the majority of red players are good peeps.

[loramin]

Most people who play on blue seem to think it's a gankfest starting right at level 1, which just isn't true.

Except when it literally is true: I got ganked at level 1 in Field of Bone. I know this isn't necessarily a common experience, but I'm telling you it happens. Personally I think it's sad: what good reason is there to let anyone kill the newbies before they've even figured out what's going on? Even if it only happens 1 out of 20 times, that's 1 time too many.

If you want to improve Red's population, disable PvP in newbie zones, and stop losing X% of the new people who come to the server.

They also seem to think that having an "empty" server is a bad thing, which just isn't true.
This I have to agree with you on. The way I see it, more populated servers are better for groupers (because it make it easier for them to find someone to group with), while less populated servers are better for soloers (more area free to solo in).

As a soloer I tend to prefer less populated servers myself ... but not enough to start over on Red ;)

[Malone88]

If you actually read that link ...

Nah. You caught me. I dropped after about five pages of rule-lawyering
and everyone calling the OP a crybaby...

[cuffed]

I started on red roughly a week ago. Couldn't resist the xp bonus.

I was ganked twice by the same guy at level 3; I think he was just fooling around. He gave me a stein afterwards. Haven't been ganked since and I'm now level 17. Enjoying it so far. Bonus xp lets me tolerate the setback of pvp death.

[Swish]

I was ganked twice by the same guy at level 3; I think he was just fooling around. He gave me a stein afterwards.

That's a fairly common thing (ganking then something nice after), was probably Agatha testing your staying power before handing something out.

[Malone88]

If you want to improve Red's population, disable PvP in newbie zones, and stop losing X% of the new people who come to the server.

I'd agree to this, though I'm not sure it will ever happen. Yes, 1 out of 20 times it could happen, but then it's also possible you run into a another group of low-levels and roll through 10 levels in about 2 hours. Better chances of getting these kinds of groups on weekends. Also, believe or not, alot of the low-level gankers are pretty cool peeps if you don't talk crap after they kill you and get to know them a little bit. They might even give you an item or two...seen it happen.

[Rec]

New players quit before they get get ganked because they see no one to play with. I know all this macho solo'ing attitude is out there but you need more than just those people

[loramin]

New players quit before they get get ganked because they see no one to play with. I know all this macho solo'ing attitude is out there but you need more than just those people

If you're right, then Red is an impossible chicken and egg problem: their population is low, so they can't attract new people, so their population will forever stay low.

But (wow, I can't believe I'm actually defending Red here) ... you do realize that once upon a time Blue had population numbers lower than Red's right? And yet somehow, Blue has 1000+ population now. If your theory was correct, that could never have happened.

So while I'm sure low population isn't helping Red, I don't think low population is the (main) problem. When Derubael/Swish and the rest first went on their great Red crusade, Red's numbers actually went up. But then they faced Red's real problem, which is that it's not fun enough to keep people playing on it, and now the population has started sinking down again.

What Red needs, IMHO, are changes to make it better, not just more people who will join the server and leave (for reasons other than a lack of population).

[Rec]

If you're right, then Red is an impossible chicken and egg problem: their population is low, so they can't attract new people, so their population will forever stay low.

But (wow, I can't believe I'm actually defending Red here) ... you do realize that once upon a time Blue had population numbers lower than Red's right? And yet somehow, Blue has 1000+ population now. If your theory was correct, that could never have happened.

So while I'm sure low population isn't helping Red, I don't think low population is the (main) problem. When Derubael/Swish and the rest first went on their great Red crusade, Red's numbers actually went up. But then they faced Red's real problem, which is that it's not fun enough to keep people playing on it, and now the population has started sinking down again.

What Red needs, IMHO, are changes to make it better, not just more people who will join the server and leave (for reasons other than a lack of population).

I don't think it's an impossible problem because the players of the server hold their own fates in their hands. Unless they like having a less than 200 pop in which case more power to them.

You can point out any blue population you want in the server's history, there has always been low level people to full group with. It is not the single player experience that is Red.

[Daywolf]

What Red needs, IMHO, are changes to make it better, not just more people who will join the server and leave (for reasons other than a lack of population).And that being team/faction based. It's just generally those communities attract more mature acting players. Sometimes exceptions, but generally I've found them more behaved compared to the typical elitist roxxor pvp player out to show everyone who's teh man... or to hide the pimply faced boy behind the keyboard :o