Alternatives to variance to increase competition (veterans and relevant only)

[lite]

go!

[Kergan]

Well you could start by...

Oh wait you said veterans and relevant people.

[Mac Drettj]

Let's bump all your variance threads

#madbadsad

[Elderan]

There can and will never be guild 1a 1b 1c on this server. Everquest was never meant for that. There will only ever be one top guild at any given time due to the nature of Everquest. Once people accept that then this server can have guild #2 and maybe #3 for sustained periods of time.

For example, Taken knows they are not on TMOs level. Yet they accept their tier #2 guild on blue and get what they can and sustain.

Once a guild sets their sights on top guild the guild will either succeed or crumble, there is no in between.

[Pikrib]

Just brainstorming here:

Have Mobs randomly respawn along with normal spawn time.


A more classic approach:

1. Have a server reset every two weeks. Mobs would all spawn upon reset at what ever time the server was brought up.

2. Set spawn time on when mobs die after screenshakes.

[Tassador]

Everyone who posted here is a chronic, a new fresh ideas?

[Stasis01]

All I gotta say is 3 years of 1 guild bleeding players out the ass once they're geared, low pop, all competing people quit.

A conversation among staff should be had, this is way too cockblocked / broken / boring / lame.

[Stasis01]

There can and will never be guild 1a 1b 1c on this server. Everquest was never meant for that. There will only ever be one top guild at any given time due to the nature of Everquest. Once people accept that then this server can have guild #2 and maybe #3 for sustained periods of time.

For example, Taken knows they are not on TMOs level. Yet they accept their tier #2 guild on blue and get what they can and sustain.

Once a guild sets their sights on top guild the guild will either succeed or crumble, there is no in between.

Considering mobs are static, you're saying Nihilum will get all raid targets, and guild B) can go for planar trash and epic pieces not controlled by raid content.

Interesting, I like that plan - it's like blue except you don't have to poopsock.

[Kergan]

Temporary population boost, hope to hook some, have a Red Dawn like guild there to snag as many as possible and hope for the best.

Options for temp boosts would be exp rate week long event, low level PVP tournaments with good prizes from GMs, legacy item events like mask/manastone dropping...just a few plausible ideas off the top of my head.

Other ideas that violate the "it's classic" mentality...quests to spawn raid targets on par with the harder epics, some sort of SZ style insignia system where you can purchase raid gear, etc.

[heartbrand]

Considering mobs are static, you're saying Nihilum will get all raid targets, and guild B) can go for planar trash and epic pieces not controlled by raid content.

Interesting, I like that plan - it's like blue except you don't have to poopsock.

Today was a pretty good example of how the fault lies with the competition not the rules. We had mid 20's for CT and wiped a couple of times to trains and people fuckin around. Any force of even 20 people could have shown up and shit on us. There was also mob overlap. Mobs could have been sniped. Instead the only competing took place on the forums. Perhaps if you created a positive guild built on progression and not on being mad anti nilly haters, you could have done something today.

[Tassador]

Says the rich guy who doesn't have to grind enjoy your pixels and mimosa sir.

[Elderan]

Considering mobs are static, you're saying Nihilum will get all raid targets, and guild B) can go for planar trash and epic pieces not controlled by raid content.

Interesting, I like that plan - it's like blue except you don't have to poopsock.

If I were starting a guild here I would do this.

- Raid planer
- Raid lower level targets on sim repop
- Negotiate a non aggression agreement with Nihilum on raid days. We would get 1-2 low priority targets and Nihilum would get plat in exchange.

Agree to go different faction in Velious. Be happy at #2 and thrive.

[Kergan]

I think we should just split our typical 60 man raid force into 2 groups and fight ourselves over loot, only way to get competition.

[Sheriff]

go!

Wipe it and make it a progression server culminating with the release of Velious.

[Sheriff]

go!

Make it TZ teams and hard code the fucker.

[Zalaerian]

Idk why people think there there will be two #1 guilds. Not on live (TZ at least) or WOW we're there ever multiple guilds on the same playing field

[Stasis01]

Today was a pretty good example of how the fault lies with the competition not the rules. We had mid 20's for CT and wiped a couple of times to trains and people fuckin around. Any force of even 20 people could have shown up and shit on us. There was also mob overlap. Mobs could have been sniped. Instead the only competing took place on the forums. Perhaps if you created a positive guild built on progression and not on being mad anti nilly haters, you could have done something today.

Yeah maybe, but I think you were more qualified and tried twice and gave up both times fairly fast.

[Kergan]

I agree but just because a guild is clear #1 doesn't mean that another guild can't occasional catch them napping and win a mob. Like HB said today, opportunity was right there.

[Musetii]

A conversation among staff should be had

Real talk, what staff?

[Stasis01]

Derubalem

[Kergan]

Yeah maybe, but I think you were more qualified and tried twice and gave up both times fairly fast.

He also had success, and if you don't think the exp thing fucked RD you're just being contrary. HB might have thrown some failed hail mary's at the end, but people put too much blame on those decisions. RD was already circling the drain at that point.

Efforts to increase population are required to build competition. Fucking with the raid scene does nothing to increase population. You have to walk before you can run. What this server needs is a landing net for new players. Nihilum doesn't put much effort into that scene, we've never had to. The opportunity is there, RD took advantage and even Hokuten is a little bit.

There are only 2 reasonable scenarios where this server has 2 competitive guilds: organically grown utilizing an increase in players starting here, or Nihilum cracking in half.

[Not_Kazowi]

Release velious would help competition. More mobs more things to do more guilds.

People need to get over nihilum hate, your guild shouldn't be based on hatred. Focus on yourselves and just play the game..

Several guilds competed against heresy, at the end of the day we were all bros about it

[Sheriff]

Idk why people think there there will be two #1 guilds. Not on live (TZ at least) or WOW we're there ever multiple guilds on the same playing field

Was a lot of fund until x-teaming panda happend. Then server died. : (

[Stasis01]

He also had success, and if you don't think the exp thing fucked RD you're just being contrary. HB might have thrown some failed hail mary's at the end, but people put too much blame on those decisions. RD was already circling the drain at that point.

Efforts to increase population are required to build competition. Fucking with the raid scene does nothing to increase population. You have to walk before you can run. What this server needs is a landing net for new players. Nihilum doesn't put much effort into that scene, we've never had to. The opportunity is there, RD took advantage and even Hokuten is a little bit.

There are only 2 reasonable scenarios where this server has 2 competitive guilds: organically grown utilizing an increase in players starting here, or Nihilum cracking in half.

How do u do this all day everyday, pass.

[Kergan]

How do u do this all day everyday, pass.

You would be appalled to see how much I make playing FQ. :)

[Sheriff]

He also had success, and if you don't think the exp thing fucked RD you're just being contrary. HB might have thrown some failed hail mary's at the end, but people put too much blame on those decisions. RD was already circling the drain at that point.

Efforts to increase population are required to build competition. Fucking with the raid scene does nothing to increase population. You have to walk before you can run. What this server needs is a landing net for new players. Nihilum doesn't put much effort into that scene, we've never had to. The opportunity is there, RD took advantage and even Hokuten is a little bit.

There are only 2 reasonable scenarios where this server has 2 competitive guilds: organically grown utilizing an increase in players starting here, or Nihilum cracking in half.

Not sure about that. People left RD yes, but there was a HUGE core of mid-50s who needed about a months and it would have been a legit three guild war.

[Kergan]

If I were starting a guild here I would do this.

- Raid planer
- Raid lower level targets on sim repop
- Negotiate a non aggression agreement with Nihilum on raid days. We would get 1-2 low priority targets and Nihilum would get plat in exchange.

Agree to go different faction in Velious. Be happy at #2 and thrive.

Just to further this point, from our friend Derubael:

I'd also like to add that I'd feel bad for Hokuten/disappointed in Nihilum if it wasn't for the fact that the recruitment thread basically declares war on Nihilum. Would fully expect my guild to get shit on if I did that.

[Eslade]

If I were starting a guild here I would do this.

- Raid planer
- Raid lower level targets on sim repop
- Negotiate a non aggression agreement with Nihilum on raid days. We would get 1-2 low priority targets and Nihilum would get plat in exchange.

Agree to go different faction in Velious. Be happy at #2 and thrive.

Was fine until I read the part about paying you off. If they wanted to buy pixels they would have paid for a new computer for Nizzar a long time ago.

[Sheriff]

You would be appalled to see how much I make playing FQ. :)

[Kergan]

Not sure about that. People left RD yes, but there was a HUGE core of mid-50s who needed about a months and it would have been a legit three guild war.

I think that is kinda sorta what I said? Exp bonus stays in and those guys level up, maybe they don't bolt and we have options on the server.

[Musetii]

Just to further this point, from our friend Derubael:

Lol @ quoting Derubael.

[Genedin]

Release velious would help competition. More mobs more things to do more guilds.

People need to get over nihilum hate, your guild shouldn't be based on hatred. Focus on yourselves and just play the game..

Several guilds competed against heresy, at the end of the day we were all bros about it


I think this issue does need some work. The only time Nihilum is brought up in teamspeak is in a joking manner or if we think they are about to pvp us. I assure you there are not in-depth discussions about the war crimes and atrocities of Nihilum members on a daily basis that appears to be the consensus in these forums.

[Smedy]

for the love of god lite, let the box die in peace

thats the only fucking way to get a new fresh box

[Rellapse40]

for the love of god lite, let the box die in peace

thats the only fucking way to get a new fresh box

[mtb tripper]

I think we should just split our typical 60 man raid force into 2 groups and fight ourselves over loot, only way to get competition.

[lite]

There can and will never be guild 1a 1b 1c on this server. Everquest was never meant for that. There will only ever be one top guild at any given time due to the nature of Everquest. Once people accept that then this server can have guild #2 and maybe #3 for sustained periods of time.

For example, Taken knows they are not on TMOs level. Yet they accept their tier #2 guild on blue and get what they can and sustain.

Once a guild sets their sights on top guild the guild will either succeed or crumble, there is no in between.

You can't be that stupid. It has always been made clear that noone has any interest on being on the same level as Nihilum, and are perfectly fine with Nihilum getting the high majority of mobs. The current model doesn't allow for anything else.

Today was a pretty good example of how the fault lies with the competition not the rules. We had mid 20's for CT and wiped a couple of times to trains and people fuckin around. Any force of even 20 people could have shown up and shit on us. There was also mob overlap.

So let a few months of no competition happen so Nihilum's monstrous numbers dwindle a bit, and then attack... take a few months off rinse repeat?

Mobs could have been sniped. Instead the only competing took place on the forums. Perhaps if you created a positive guild built on progression and not on being mad anti nilly haters, you could have done something today.

Sounds pretty simple, perhaps you should give it a go? oh wait.... As you clearly state, it is the ruleset. One guild zerg recruits to victory... nothing has changed, go back to being correct.

http://s17.postimg.org/4xwc0j7lr/Untitled_2.jpg


Why is Kergan posting in this thread?

[Mac Drettj]

Why don't you go play a different game?

[Sheriff]

Why don't you go play a different game?

valid point

[Quiet]

Today was a pretty good example of how the fault lies with the competition not the rules. We had mid 20's for CT and wiped a couple of times to trains and people fuckin around. Any force of even 20 people could have shown up and shit on us. There was also mob overlap. Mobs could have been sniped. Instead the only competing took place on the forums. Perhaps if you created a positive guild built on progression and not on being mad anti nilly haters, you could have done something today.

This is a false statement in every way possible. 20 people could show up, in which the 22-25 present would camp out their dead characters, log on any 20-25 of their alts who are still better geared then the 20 coming to contest, and easily wreck the raid before another guild could buff, clear, engage. Not to mention at the slightly sign of contesting a bat phone goes out and that number doubles.

This is precisely why Azrael stopped winning PVP fights. Azrael player for player was better at PVP then Nihilum and the last 2 fights the numbers were close enough. 52-48 or so. But Checkraise dies, Ricardo appears, who dies, Selena appears. Or someone else camps them in. There isn't an end to the number of available 60s at nihilums disposal or people to play them, where as Azrael had to stretcher pretty far to obtain 48 people most of which were playing someone elses character.

Hell just looking at the leaderboard. Server population never crosses 250, yet over 1000 people appear on those boards. Thats why the game is Zerg oriented. Numbers win. Strategy isnt important in 90% of the zones. Nihilum has no shortage of numbers, or people willing to show up / join up.

Tldr = Server wipe, nihilum has too many available, geared 60s for anyone to compete.

[Colgate]

ya nilly got some real sickos like vaporize who have at least half a dozen geared out level 60 characters

when colgate dies in mass pvp i can log on a naked level 57 bard w/ a mistmoore drum l o l

[Mac Drettj]

Ya all us working class people waiting for a bat phone to log in and help 20 people pvp at 10am. If only 20 showed up for morning repop thats because the other 20 didnt take a day off, not because they are sitting at the computer waiting.

Stop finding excuses and play ever quest if you don't want to raid don't raid. If you want to pvp then go pvp.

Excuses and server rule changes won't change whether you have fun or not.

[HippoNipple]

Server population never crosses 250, yet over 1000 people appear on those boards.

That actually sounds low to me. That means at peak times 1/4 of the people that have logged in within the last month are all on at that time. That actually points towards people not playing that many different characters in my opinion.

Maybe people just play more than I realize.

[Mac Drettj]

ya nilly got some real sickos like vaporize who have at least half a dozen geared out level 60 characters

when colgate dies in mass pvp i can log on a naked level 57 bard w/ a mistmoore drum l o l

This is true. A few sickos have 14 classes In raid loot.

The rest like myself have 1 main and some alts w a few planar pieces.

[Quiet]

Yes, no mistake I do not support variance as it only caters to the most dedicated of players who will sit in the game through entire 12 hour windows and not move and I miss the competition of raids and the mass pvp.

Sim repops are ok but in reality it leaves 1 guild scrambling for a few scraps while the other takes the main targets. Sure you got Inny, Fay, maybe Talendor but all the other mobs, VP, taken.

The truth is either the server needs a fresh wipe with everyone playing from the beginning, or they need to do exactly as on blue and create a rotation for mobs. The gear gap is huge currently, there is no pvp for high end mobs and so the idea that giving mobs to the 2nd tier guild will cost pvp fights is idiocy because there isn't any pvp for mobs anyways. What needs to be done is allow a 2nd guild the chance to get uncontested pixels so that it creates a strong and viable 2nd guild, then and only then will they be able to show up and do legit contesting.

Otherwise the 2nd guild will continue to be significantly weaker, lose mobs to the higher end guild and the balance will always be one sided. At least handing out pixels to lower guild gives people a reason to log in, to level up and to go after pixels. I'd be as drastic to say that if you give a 2nd tier guild pixels and a person leaves that 2nd tier guild, GMs strip their characters, simply to avoid exploiting this. Its a horrible concept but its the type of drastic measure that needs to be done at this point.

[LostCause]

lite
























5317

[Quiet]

Can anyone imagine what Checkraise could have done if Red Dawn has been given 3 months straight of at least 1 full set of raid content per week uncontested? There would still be pvp, plenty of PVP as there is now and numerically its supported by Elderan's numbers, pvp happens regardless. But by now RD would be fighting for the mobs they wanted extra and would never have needed to drink Nizzar's ball juice. You take that and add in no loss of exp modifier and we'd have a 2-3 guild server with pvp rampaging all week long. Quality, even, fair pvp too not a bunch of gank fests. Because when gear evens out, skill becomes the deciding factor.

[Mac Drettj]

Or u could grow a pair and do something more than forum post about how unfair it is

[Eslade]

I need to reevaluate my life. I think I agree with quiet...

[Quiet]

2 Sets per week of mobs 1 contestable, 1 not. GM Sanctioned with them watching every move. One attempt at grief and account banned 1 month no bs, no lawyering. Sorry Nihilum you've had 2 years of non-contested or barely contested you have more level 60s in raid gear then the rest of the server put so you take the short end of the stick in favor of server health and allowing some competition to grow. Then after a few months when a guild catches up. Gloves come off and they can have at each other twice a week for pixels.

Its better then whining about a bunch of strategies that will not work. This all but promises another guild can and will grow and gear. The exceptionally harsh penalties for interference and for sneaking your Nihi alt 0012 in to only bail out later, or using them as a spring board should be at best a solid deterrent. People will slip past occasionally but for the most part anyone deguilding and joining Nihi or a similar lawyer type guild will find themselves with a cool naked 60. Anyone who has any interest in allowing a server growth or maintaining should agree with this.

[Not Salem]

Funny HB is saying we could of tool CT today because Nilly showed up with 20. If we Did manage to get it there would be 45+ Nili at the next Trakanon spawn. See Azraels 1 - 25. Thanks for the tip tho ill consider it while I click my crown of rile

[freez]

wipe it

[mikemandella]

I am not going to lie. I am feeling this rotation idea.. When you think about it... to have a chance to compete the new 2nd guild needs SOME key items/pixels. I think that would be fair. I am sure Nihilum will have no problems with this as it would help the server population.. and in the end.. that is everyones goal here.. right?

[freez]

no

[Vile]

wtb discord server with p99 code plz

[mrproudbeard]

Did not read thread. Want more people for more competition? Start by treating new people like people (see thread title) instead of something beneath you.

This applies to more than OP.

Server doesn't need more rules or mechanics (not classic).

[Kergan]

Why is Kergan posting in this thread?

I post in every thread?

[Uuruk]

How about a alternate to posting about this every fucking day. Go away. Send a PM to someone. We don't give a fuck that your sorry ass can't compete.

[freez]

How about a alternate to posting about this every fucking day. Go away. Send a PM to someone. We don't give a fuck that your sorry ass can't compete.

whats your nihilum inmate number son?

[mostbitter]

How about this alternative:

Log in, Recruit, plvl new recruits, discourage people from rolling classes you can't gear b/c of lack of raid mobs. How tough is it to get n epic for a monk/rog/clr toss then some planar and resist jewelry and they are about as good as they need to be.

I can count on a hand without fingers the number of times I remember Lite swarm kiting for a group of apps because it never fucking happened. Yet I see this kind of thing all the time in nihilum. Nihilum also keeps kc locked down and exp groups grinding almost all the time. Lite logs in and makes people go to air to farm stuff for his alt monk for 8 hours.

Yall need to find Jesus. You continually squander opportunities and surround yourself with people who tell you yes so that you don't have to come to terms with your actions.

[Chuck_still_a_virgin]

Today was a pretty good example of how the fault lies with the competition not the rules. We had mid 20's for CT and wiped a couple of times to trains and people fuckin around. Any force of even 20 people could have shown up and shit on us. There was also mob overlap. Mobs could have been sniped. Instead the only competing took place on the forums. Perhaps if you created a positive guild built on progression and not on being mad anti nilly haters, you could have done something today.

God, HB, even you know this is a bullshit argument.

If the 1927 New York Yankees were stretching on the field, a high school team COULD have run on the field, hit a few home runs and say they beat the yankees. The reality is, all the yankees have to do is stand up and beat the shit out of them.

The problem is systemic in the server. It doesn't matter if it's Nihilum, it could be any guild monopolizing the raid mobs. All it takes to recruit someone is say "Hey, if you don't join us you'll never get loot". The loot pinata is set up every week at the same time, monopoly guild rolls down the hill and knocks down every single mob in order. Even in your example, if the mob was stolen, so what? You guys stand up and play real baseball next week by logging in 60 players and watch the other guild log off for 3 months or have their members recruited into the monopoly guild. Then you blame the 2nd place guilds for not competing. The rules of the server kill raid mob pvp and they kill guilds as a result. Variance allows more guilds to be formed, not create a monopoly on every mob in the game.

The worst part is that Nihilum members can't voice dissent, they can't say variance is a good idea. Not because they believe it, but because Nizzar will guildremove them and blacklist them from ever getting loot. Rogean has created a dictator in Nizzar. I haven't played on this server in 2-2.5 years, I'm about as unbiased as you can get. Anyone against variance is a shill or just doesn't understand high level thought.

[Chuck_still_a_virgin]

How about this alternative:

Log in, Recruit, plvl new recruits, discourage people from rolling classes you can't gear b/c of lack of raid mobs. How tough is it to get n epic for a monk/rog/clr toss then some planar and resist jewelry and they are about as good as they need to be.



Because none of this matters. If Lite recruited 100 new players and had them geared to the teeth, his guild would monopolize all of the raid mobs. Everyone from Nihilum would jump ship and join Lite's guild. They would be the ones killing every raid mob in the game on the same day in the same exact order every week. Then we'd have the same problem with a different guild name. The problem is that with no variance, it will always revert back to the mean.

[derpcake]

People that don't like the server state should just stop logging in.

Can always let nihi raid to their hearts content while playing on another server.

[R Flair]

Variance does nothing to promote pvp. It rewards A) the lucky guild, or B) the guild that spends all their time watching for repops. Both scenarios promote sniping mobs uncontested.

What you really mean is you, the guy not playing on Red99, want to punish the players that are playing by making them sit around day and night while you laugh it up stuffing your face with cheetos and twinkies.

[derpcake]

Variance does nothing to promote pvp.

Yea it does, it ensures guilds have to gather and race when stuff spawns, and can't just be present in full force while counting down from 5 as the mob spawns.

I guess you don't understand this though. No problem.

[derpcake]

What you really mean is you, the guy not playing on Red99, want to punish the players that are playing by making them sit around day and night while you laugh it up stuffing your face with cheetos and twinkies.

Or you know, guilds could race? Like they did on classic?

Unfortunately having kunark for years here removed that aspect though.

Perfect timers & overgeared zergs, god forbid anything changes. :rolleyes:

[lite]

God, HB, even you know this is a bullshit argument.

If the 1927 New York Yankees were stretching on the field, a high school team COULD have run on the field, hit a few home runs and say they beat the yankees. The reality is, all the yankees have to do is stand up and beat the shit out of them.

that fucking analogy..... damn. This is the kind of badasses this server turns away.

[Zalaerian]

God, HB, even you know this is a bullshit argument.



The worst part is that Nihilum members can't voice dissent, they can't say variance is a good idea. Not because they believe it, but because Nizzar will guildremove them and blacklist them from ever getting loot. Rogean has created a dictator in Nizzar. I haven't played on this server in 2-2.5 years, I'm about as unbiased as you can get. Anyone against variance is a shill or just doesn't understand high level thought.

Your wrong Coach and here's why. Nihilum as a guild has the biggest beards ever grown on any box. I am in minority of the guild who only plays one character. No alts here. I rarely will log on Tyrionn if needed but not the case for most. Our mobilization to spawns is not because of porters. It's because we have close to 30 epic/VP alts in seb. Another 20 in KC. And prob 40 scattered across norath w OT hammers for centralized mobilization. More alts are being geared daily. Velious will just be us logging in our TOV camped toon or our Kael toon with a few making the transit

Hokuten exists right now because we allow it and it benefits us. We take their high level embers looking to expand more into the game of raiding and progressing their toon. They also do things like royals that can spwn with things our guys still need (thanks for the queen shield last night ).

EQ is not a game of mere skill. 90% of it is time invested = reward and not one guild will ever out sock the king sockers

TLDR bring on variance. You are not prepared

[LostCause]

Funny HB is saying we could of tool CT today because Nilly showed up with 20. If we Did manage to get it there would be 45+ Nili at the next Trakanon spawn. See Azraels 1 - 25. Thanks for the tip tho ill consider it while I click my crown of rile

you guys can easily pull 40+ dont bullshit me ive seen it don't cry

unlike azrael we have loyal members that actually log on.

not my fault lite is a bad guild leader. (what is it azrael 24.0)

numbers are numbers either pvp or sit on forums and cry.

[lite]

Your wrong Coach and here's why. Nihilum as a guild has the biggest beards ever grown on any box. I am in minority of the guild who only plays one character. No alts here. I rarely will log on Tyrionn if needed but not the case for most. Our mobilization to spawns is not because of porters. It's because we have close to 30 epic/VP alts in seb. Another 20 in KC. And prob 40 scattered across norath w OT hammers for centralized mobilization. More alts are being geared daily. Velious will just be us logging in our TOV camped toon or our Kael toon with a few making the transit

aka ...Zerg guilds are incontestable under current ruleset. Yeah we knew that, thus desire for variance to add different dynamic which can create different scenarios.

EQ is not a game of mere skill. 90% of it is time invested = reward and not one guild will ever out sock the king sockers

TLDR bring on variance. You are not prepared

I don't think anyone is arguing that at all, as a matter of fact. It is actually the best pro variance argument.

[Chuck_still_a_virgin]

(I removed some sentences to clarify your points)

Your wrong Coach and here's why. Nihilum as a guild has the biggest beards ever grown on any box. Our mobilization to spawns is not because of porters. Velious will just be us logging in our TOV camped toon or our Kael toon with a few making the transit

So I'm not exactly sure what point you're not agreeing with of mine based on these points. I agree you have some very dedicated players. I agree your mobilization is not based on porting. I agree that you will monopolize all the raid mobs in Velious.

When I mention mobilization, I mean mobilizing a force at 3am on a Wednesday for a single Faydader spawn. Not how fast you can port your preorganized raid day 60 man force to VP after killing Trakanon. How long will your dedicated force be willing to log in to contest a raid mob that no one needs but you kill anyone to keep anyone else from having? Now how about your members who aren't so hardcore and really just log on for the loot pinata every week?

Yes, with no variance you will hold down every single velious spawn - giant and dragon faction combined. You guys will create a clearing routine that will allow you to kill certain raid mobs and move to the next mob in an efficient manner, whether that means logging in other characters strategically placed, or porting. You will arrive at pricely the exact time, like a good wizard is supposed to - right when the mob spawns, on time. So you will have 60, 70, maybe 80 players log in for probably 2 days (I assume it will take 2 for full velious clears) each week. The mobs will spawn in the exact order, at the exact moment that they did in the previous week. Right?

Hokuten exists right now because we allow it and it benefits us. We take their high level embers looking to expand more into the game of raiding and progressing their toon. They also do things like royals that can spwn with things our guys still need (thanks for the queen shield last night ).

EQ is not a game of mere skill. 90% of it is time invested = reward and not one guild will ever out sock the king sockers

Yes, the only place for secondary guilds on a server that is systemically faulted is to be the feeder guild. The only way you rise up in the guild hierarchy is topping the monopoly guild, and you become the new monopoly guild. And since the server gives so much power to the monopoly guild in terms of recruiting and the pvp advantage of always being at your strongest point for raid days, it is almost impossible to topple the monopoly guild. It's a cycle dictated by not having variance. Doesn't matter if it's Nihilum or any other guild name.

And I agree, EQ is not a game about skill. It's /played + numbers. That's why I argued in the first months about the power that the server rules gave to zerg guilds. Being a zerg guild is already incredibly powerful because so many battles about pure numbers. When you know when every raid mob spawns, it becomes a game of who can get the most players to log in 30 minutes before it's due. Nothing more, nothing less. That's why Nihilum has been notorious for having huge play times on raid days and being vacant from the server for the other 6 days of the week. Pretty obvious what the problem with the server is.

[Gaffin 7.0]

variance is horrible no one wants to wait around 6-12 hrs if a mob is past his spawn

what kinda game does that?

[lite]

variance is horrible no one wants to wait around 6-12 hrs if a mob is past his spawn

what kinda game does that?

there's no waiting around, there's pvping around.

[Kergan]

Because none of this matters. If Lite recruited 100 new players and had them geared to the teeth, his guild would monopolize all of the raid mobs. Everyone from Nihilum would jump ship and join Lite's guild. They would be the ones killing every raid mob in the game on the same day in the same exact order every week. Then we'd have the same problem with a different guild name. The problem is that with no variance, it will always revert back to the mean.

This happened like 3-4 months ago. Nobody jumped ship. We actually gained a lot of recruits that are now geared to the tits (like Ksah) because they fought the good fight and won.

The reason nobody has toppled Nihilum permanently isn't because there hasn't been forces capable in the past, it's because nobody had the endurance to keep pushing.

You want to keep blaming us, but in reality we're nowhere near the size of a typical top guild on an EQ live server. Even blue there are probably 5 guilds with twice as many people as us. In order to continue to have success raiding into Velious we need this many people, if not more. 50 man raids are the standard in that expansion, not overkill.

If you guys want 10x 20 man guilds duking it out you're playing on the wrong server at the wrong time and the wrong game.

[Chuck_still_a_virgin]

variance is horrible no one wants to wait around 6-12 hrs if a mob is past his spawn

what kinda game does that?

Well sure, who wants to have spawn windows when you can kill Nagefen at 8:00pm, kill Vox at 8:07pm, then kill Trakanon at 8:13pm, don't forget to pass "Go" and collect your $200dkp, then you can log off until the next spawn day. Just make sure to check the spreadsheet for spawn times.

Then you can go on the forums and say "Well no one contested us when we only had 20 players on last night" as a claim to why variance wouldn't work. I can't even understand how one could even arrive at a conclusion like that. Logically it makes absolutely no sense. We've had almost 3 years of data to prove how terrible "no variance" system is, and yet people try to use that data to attack "variance" system. I'd like to think it's just common sense to see these things, but maybe I am just smarter than most of you.

[Gaffin 7.0]

there's no waiting around, there's pvping around.

Im all for a change and on no ones side but how you think that would last?

Really doesnt seem any difference why not be there at a spawn timer and PvP

Why do you need variance to do so?

[lite]

The reason nobody has toppled Nihilum permanently isn't because there hasn't been forces capable in the past, it's because nobody had the endurance to keep pushing.

wrong, the reason noone has toppled nihilism is because noone has a desire to play like Nihilum. Investing the kind of hours, and guilding with absolutely anyone and everyone despite disliking them.

When contesting Nihilum occurs it immidiately becomes a game of who can keep recruiting faster. Some people have no interest in tossing everyone a tag.

[Laugher]

could always push for blue to red char xfers, quickest way to get a pixeled crew over with minimal work in regards to getting a sizeable competition going on red 99s end game content

no transfer back

http://i.imgur.com/LX9nkKu.jpg

[Kergan]

God, HB, even you know this is a bullshit argument.

If the 1927 New York Yankees were stretching on the field, a high school team COULD have run on the field, hit a few home runs and say they beat the yankees. The reality is, all the yankees have to do is stand up and beat the shit out of them.

The problem is systemic in the server. It doesn't matter if it's Nihilum, it could be any guild monopolizing the raid mobs. All it takes to recruit someone is say "Hey, if you don't join us you'll never get loot". The loot pinata is set up every week at the same time, monopoly guild rolls down the hill and knocks down every single mob in order. Even in your example, if the mob was stolen, so what? You guys stand up and play real baseball next week by logging in 60 players and watch the other guild log off for 3 months or have their members recruited into the monopoly guild. Then you blame the 2nd place guilds for not competing. The rules of the server kill raid mob pvp and they kill guilds as a result. Variance allows more guilds to be formed, not create a monopoly on every mob in the game.

The worst part is that Nihilum members can't voice dissent, they can't say variance is a good idea. Not because they believe it, but because Nizzar will guildremove them and blacklist them from ever getting loot. Rogean has created a dictator in Nizzar. I haven't played on this server in 2-2.5 years, I'm about as unbiased as you can get. Anyone against variance is a shill or just doesn't understand high level thought.

So lets use your 1927 Yankees example. The Yankees won the world series in '27 and '28, but not in '24, '25, '26, '29 or '30. Were the Yankees the best team in the '20s? Without a doubt, some of the best teams of all time. Did they win it every year? Nope. Because other teams actually played against them and occasionally won.

And we can have our own opinions, believe it or not. If I was pro-variance I'd say it. People act like guild officers are running Nihilum like a communist regime, censoring people voicing dissent. It just isn't true, even in the slightest. I haven't seen someone in the last year get guild removed over anything other than being a terrible EQ player and messing up raids or being a complete douche. And even then it was only apps. The only FQing that is going to get you in trouble is if you're attacking members of the guild for some reason.

Kinda funny a thread titled "alternatives to variance" devolves into yet another dead horse variance debate.

[Zalaerian]

Cast

There is no mobilization. Mobilization will be logging off your TOV character to your Kael character. Some will need to transit to targets but people will have chars there buffed rdy to go like seb an Kc now. 3am spwns while not ideal for EST players will be compensated by our euro team. Most will bare the pain tho and just log in at 3am.

[Kergan]

wrong, the reason noone has toppled nihilism is because noone has a desire to play like Nihilum. Investing the kind of hours, and guilding with absolutely anyone and everyone despite disliking them.

When contesting Nihilum occurs it immidiately becomes a game of who can keep recruiting faster. Some people have no interest in tossing everyone a tag.

You're saying the same thing. You guys never wanted to do what it takes to stay on top. Call it endurance, call it neckbearding, call it "investing the kind of hours and guilding with absolutely anyone".

The funny part is while there is a big part of the guild that goes balls deep in this game, Nihilum is easily the most casual friendly guild on R99. Easy to find groups, don't have any sort of raid attendance requirement...basically play when you want, show up when you can. Nobody calls people out for having 20% RA, or even 5%.

[lite]

Cast

There is no mobilization. Mobilization will be logging off your TOV character to your Kael character. Some will need to transit to targets but people will have chars there buffed rdy to go like seb an Kc now. 3am spwns while not ideal for EST players will be compensated by our euro team. Most will bare the pain tho and just log in at 3am.

People get sniped as they move alone, essential classes don't make it, a pvp recovery team has to be sent out ... some other shit spawns in the same window and decisions need to be made, other guild has their very best toons parked at their selected high priority target giving them an edge. All these tons of situations start to present themselves which can not possibly come about in a non variance set up.

[Kergan]

Thread title: Alternatives to variance to increase competition (veterans and relevant only)

Thread reality: another Lite variance thread.

Pathetic.

[lite]

You're saying the same thing. You guys never wanted to do what it takes to stay on top.

That's the whole point, if you want to play anything other than super hardcore it means you can't compete. That is a flawed system and the very thing Checkraise's argument very effectively addresses.


http://s17.postimg.org/4xwc0j7lr/Untitled_2.jpg

[lite]

Thread title: Alternatives to variance to increase competition (veterans and relevant only)

Thread reality: another Lite variance thread.

Pathetic.

Cast addressed it. I can only assume as a new comer you don't know who he is, but he is relevant and a veteran. When relevants address something it gets the spotlight, that's just how things work.

[Kergan]

That's the whole point, if you want to play anything other than super hardcore it means you can't compete. That is a flawed system and the very thing Checkraise's argument very effectively addresses.


So the hardcore people win? Holy shit alert the press.

You're playing the wrong game.

[Kergan]

Cast addressed it. I can only assume as a new comer you don't know who he is, but he is relevant and a veteran. When relevants address something it gets the spotlight, that's just how things work.

All I read from him was he hasn't played in 2.5 years. Veteran sure, relevant...nope.

[lite]

i tried.. you are simple, sorry. it's not your fault.

[Zalaerian]

wrong, the reason noone has toppled nihilism is because noone has a desire to play like Nihilum. Investing the kind of hours, and guilding with absolutely anyone and everyone despite disliking them.



You sound like me 2 years ago. Holocaust won battles but lost the war. We came into this server trying to VZTZ it. Rolled what we knew would be the most power end game classes and tried to pvp a guild who was ahead of us w pve knowledge. Combine that with us building no road for our melee to get 50 on, it slowly fell apart. Our bad for not adjusting our play style to how this server was. Instead we tried to brute force our methodology and it fell short hard.

Change your game, at least you can control that. You or anyone else has zero power how this server is ran.

[mtb tripper]

wipe wipe wipe wipe wipe wipe wipe wipe wipe my ass gently down the stream

[Chuck_still_a_virgin]

This happened like 3-4 months ago. Nobody jumped ship. We actually gained a lot of recruits that are now geared to the tits (like Ksah) because they fought the good fight and won.

Let me guess, you fought some 50v50 fights (giving you the benefit of the doubt here, it was probably vs less), you lost a few single raid spawns, you "woke up" the rest of your memberbase, Nizzar started cracking the whip, and you maintained your monopoly status. And as I described, you were able to recruit more players? You don't say.

The reason nobody has toppled Nihilum permanently isn't because there hasn't been forces capable in the past, it's because nobody had the endurance to keep pushing.

Maybe that's the case, but that doesn't have anything to do with my points. I have no vested interest in whose at the top. What I'm arguing is that how no variance structures the server dynamics, a monopoly will always be the end result. There may be times of unrest from a secondary guild, but the monopoly will almost always survive because of the huge advantages ingrained in the system.

You want to keep blaming us, but in reality we're nowhere near the size of a typical top guild on an EQ live server. Even blue there are probably 5 guilds with twice as many people as us. In order to continue to have success raiding into Velious we need this many people, if not more. 50 man raids are the standard in that expansion, not overkill.

Yeah, I'm not blaming you, or the guild. I've said this for over 2 years. I don't even know who you are, in my mind you're just Nilbot #23382, a nobody. The fault is from the staff who don't understand the impact of rules on the server because they didn't come from PVP servers or were pvpers. We have almost 3 years of data on this ruleset, it is broken without a doubt.

To your point about guild numbers, I don't know what to tell you man. When you roll with 90% of the high level population for the majority of the past 2 years, you can't really expect more players. You haven't been around long enough, but the guild has churned through at least 500 players. That's what happens when the server gives all the power to monopolize every raid target in a single afternoon of raiding. The hardest part in the process is the first recruitment, if you can hit the appropriate number of players / players on the entire server, you win until you stop caring. Nizzar still cares, so you stay on top.

If you guys want 10x 20 man guilds duking it out you're playing on the wrong server at the wrong time and the wrong game.

This is only true because it's still no variance, if it was variance this would change. You can't field a raid force of 50 players for single spawns of unwanted raid targets at 4am on a weekday. You will have to start prioritizing mobs so you don't burn out members, other guilds will pop up and fight over them. Players will have a choice in who they want to fight for because smaller guilds can now make (some) progress. It's an entire chain effect of things that happen months down the line.

[lite]

You sound like me 2 years ago. Holocaust won battles but lost the war. We came into this server trying to VZTZ it. Rolled what we knew would be the most power end game classes and tried to pvp a guild who was ahead of us w pve knowledge. Combine that with us building no road for our melee to get 50 on, it slowly fell apart. Our bad for not adjusting our play style to how this server was. Instead we tried to brute force our methodology and it fell short hard.

Change your game, at least you can control that. You or anyone else has zero power how this server is ran.

how'd that workout for heresy and red dawn ? Not a troll, literally it sounds easy enough.

[Nirgon]

Simulated repops

The shit is classic

The end

[Chuck_still_a_virgin]

And we can have our own opinions, believe it or not. If I was pro-variance I'd say it. People act like guild officers are running Nihilum like a communist regime, censoring people voicing dissent. It just isn't true, even in the slightest. I haven't seen someone in the last year get guild removed over anything other than being a terrible EQ player and messing up raids or being a complete douche. And even then it was only apps. The only FQing that is going to get you in trouble is if you're attacking members of the guild for some reason.

Hey buddy, I tried to dig up the old thread and quotes from Nizzar, but I dare you to have an opinion on topics like this that differ from him. You will be booted and blacklisted, he has said as much. All of Nihilum has to stay rank and file when it comes to topics like this, you can't have an opposing view to his. Keep thinking you have a big swinging dick when you're just a cog in the wheel where 500 other players have been and gone.

[Quiet]

My idea is the idea that would give the server the best chance of luring new players and thriving. Variance is more hardcore then ever. People don't log on now to PVP and they wouldn't log on and pvp for Variance. IT would be guilds camping at spawn point with oor track bots and then when pops, they log in. Or they kill everyone and they get corpse camped while people wait for variance timer to expire.

Lite is a moron who thinks because hes played this game a while and knows some pulling strategies it translates to knowing how to fix the server. Lite is one of the main reasons the server fails. The leadership bares the blame. I don't blame Nizzar for creating a guild, making it better then any other and keeping it going through any means necessary but hes also to blame based on how they made sure they wrecked any chance of anyone else competing. So The ideas of tweak this or that and create competition is dead wrong.

Its rotation or forget it. Sure once in a while out of 12 months, maybe a guild steals a few major kills, whoopty shit, in the end Nihilum gets 11 months of near uncontested. Its get drastic or forget ever crossing 250 population or any significant growth.

[Kergan]

This is only true because it's still no variance, if it was variance this would change. You can't field a raid force of 50 players for single spawns of unwanted raid targets at 4am on a weekday. You will have to start prioritizing mobs so you don't burn out members, other guilds will pop up and fight over them. Players will have a choice in who they want to fight for because smaller guilds can now make (some) progress. It's an entire chain effect of things that happen months down the line.

The pro variance argument people always boil it down to this. Like it is a magic cure to the perceived disease this server has. The problem is, I fundamentally disagree (as do many others) with the truths you take for granted when you say things like "if it was variance this would change". The reality is the people willing to put in the most time and effort will (and should) always be victorious regardless of ruleset. Even if you get what you want, it will change nothing. The reason I am against variance isn't because I don't want competition. It's because shitting up the raid scene for the entire server is not a good solution, end of story. I'd rather see a plethora of crazy ass ideas go in then variance. Hell, make it so only 30 people can have agro on a raid target in classic/Kunark and then they start kicking people out of the zone Nagafen style. Cap guilds at 50 people, whatever. I'm all for competition but I've had to poopsock a total of 1 time on this server, when we didn't have the PD timer, and it was EQ at its absolute worst. Personally, I'd quit the game. I'm not alone. Variance WILL decrease population, but maybe that is what people fighting for it want - kill the server off so hopefully they'll nuke it and the people who lost get a do-over?

[Chuck_still_a_virgin]

Cast

There is no mobilization. Mobilization will be logging off your TOV character to your Kael character. Some will need to transit to targets but people will have chars there buffed rdy to go like seb an Kc now. 3am spwns while not ideal for EST players will be compensated by our euro team. Most will bare the pain tho and just log in at 3am.

Again, I'm not talking about mobilization of characters. I'm talking about the logistics and mobilization of getting a raid force online at odd hours throughout the week when dozens of mobs will no longer be in a single file line for you to kill. I mean we can make assumptions about how many players will log in when they get a batphone in the middle of the night for a single Faydader spawn, my assumption is that it would be low. I'm sure you would a much bigger turnout for VP or Trak.

That being said, it won't be your max turnout for every raid mob. You can get a max turnout when mobs are packed away into a 3 hour time block on a single day per week. It's an impossible feat if variance were introduced.

[Zalaerian]

What does red dawn or heresy have anything to do w holocaust, a guild that consisted of members of now Nihilum and Azrael, that also existed before your time. Holo heresy and rd all had separate agendas. Holo came here to be #1. Can't comment on heresy, I was on LOZ fighting Kringe on a velious box for 8 months following Hilo disbanding. RD was an entry level guild building up slowly to contest. Might as well throw Azrael in that lump of past guilds that no longer exist don't you think?

[Kergan]

Hey buddy, I tried to dig up the old thread and quotes from Nizzar, but I dare you to have an opinion on topics like this that differ from him. You will be booted and blacklisted, he has said as much. All of Nihilum has to stay rank and file when it comes to topics like this, you can't have an opposing view to his. Keep thinking you have a big swinging dick when you're just a cog in the wheel where 500 other players have been and gone.

Not sure why you're going off the deep end, at least your posts have been fairly game related and not inflammatory up until this point. If I get kicked for having an opinion Nizzar doesn't agree with then so be it I guess. But after I get kicked I'll still be very much anti-variance.

[Nirgon]

Thanks for leaving me to deal with these scum in AIM chat by myself btw Cast.

Don't let the Emp give you the heebee jeebies. Get back in here.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d141/meckler87/Book21July.jpg

[rollin5k]

One idea to solve all these problems and ensure end game pvp is just one simple thing.

max 1 or 2 maybe 3 characters per ip or something like that. limit the amount of alts and endless accounts and sharing

[Quiet]

One idea to solve all these problems and ensure end game pvp is just one simple thing.

max 1 or 2 maybe 3 characters per ip or something like that. limit the amount of alts and endless accounts and sharing

Idiot.

[Nirgon]

Account sharing was against the rules under Verant's reign.

Should not be allowed here.

Way easier to just ban people sharing accounts on the spot than to do all this investigation of who took what first with account strippings etc. Banning known accomplices/associates to people who are involved in this kind of behavior is a good thing. What's the point of banning or suspending someone when a "GOOD PAL" is on stand by to get you right back in the game scumming it up with a lvl 60 alt?

[Gaffin 7.0]

Just give everyone lvl 60 with BiS gear, let the greef pvp begin

[Zalaerian]

Boxing was also legal. Let's leave pandoras box closed

[Chuck_still_a_virgin]

You sound like me 2 years ago. Holocaust won battles but lost the war. We came into this server trying to VZTZ it. Rolled what we knew would be the most power end game classes and tried to pvp a guild who was ahead of us w pve knowledge. Combine that with us building no road for our melee to get 50 on, it slowly fell apart. Our bad for not adjusting our play style to how this server was. Instead we tried to brute force our methodology and it fell short hard.

Change your game, at least you can control that. You or anyone else has zero power how this server is ran.

Well, first lets not even mention that the LEAD GM on the server was being paid off. It only took a year for her to be banned from the project. And that we were banned by the server administrator. Mid December until the day we were banned in early January we were destroying Nihilum. The biggest reality is that we were never going to play this thing for long, none of us would have grinded it for even a year straight, much less 2.5 years like Nizzar. The server rules give way too much advantage to a zerg guild, and zerg guilds in EQ are already strong as hell. So you have players like me who refuse to play in a guild of zerg recruits.

Anyway, Hughman has been outspoken about how Nihilum was getting tooled by us back then. What can you do when Lead GM and Lead Staff are against you? Lol.

I'm not trying to convince you, just telling it how I remember it. I still believe that had holocaust not been banned for doing the exact same thing Nihilum did multiple times that we would have lost a lot more than 2 Nagafens.

[Nirgon]

Less targets in an item loot system when you join the zerg guild.

[heartbrand]

Gongshow 10:41 am
Lol, I was one of the first level 50 random PKers on Rallos Zek in 1999, back in the days of Aakor/Ennart/Castin. Oh, I was also the highest level neutral on SZ in the top neutral guild before I quit. And, damn I forgot to mention, I'm one of the best RTS players to ever live, having been top ranked in every game I've played.
lol
cast is such a NOBODY
its painful to read that
cast good at 2 things: propaganda and AOE (allegedly)
outside of that, shrug

[Zalaerian]

Yea agree the mass ban / suspend killed it for most

[Gaffin 7.0]

cast is alive?

[Nirgon]

^ Needs to come defend himself in chat

[Mac Drettj]

http://troll.me/images/bedtime-hitler/this-thread-makes-no-sense.jpg

[mostbitter]

Account sharing was against the rules under Verant's reign.

Should not be allowed here.

Way easier to just ban people sharing accounts on the spot than to do all this investigation of who took what first with account strippings etc. Banning known accomplices/associates to people who are involved in this kind of behavior is a good thing. What's the point of banning or suspending someone when a "GOOD PAL" is on stand by to get you right back in the game scumming it up with a lvl 60 alt?

nirgon u cray cray they only investigate that stuff when it suits them anyway

[mostbitter]

Hey buddy, I tried to dig up the old thread and quotes from Nizzar, but I dare you to have an opinion on topics like this that differ from him. You will be booted and blacklisted, he has said as much. All of Nihilum has to stay rank and file when it comes to topics like this, you can't have an opposing view to his. Keep thinking you have a big swinging dick when you're just a cog in the wheel where 500 other players have been and gone.

you're dumb as fuck, maybe living in the past because of emotional scars.

[Kergan]

Let me fill this in for you:

because... it will make me getting loot harder. I will have to log in multiple times a week, at various times of the day rather than on a single day when my entire guild has blocked off time to kill every raid mob in the game. It's not fair that everyone else has gotten all of their items and tons of DKP in this system, while I'm fairly new and haven't gotten a big enough piece of the pie yet! Plus, velious is coming out... yeah, I need more DKP for velious!

I mean, I can't blame you. Humans want self preservation. Variance wouldn't be good for anyone in Nihilum. Your very dedicated player base (which isn't as big as you think it is) would still log in for all the raid spawns and batphones, but the less dedicated players (people with jobs and shit) would laugh at getting a batphone at 4am for Faydader. If that example isn't good enough for you, you are free to take any raid mob in game that you currently kill, and attach any hour of any day to it. If you think your guild can field every hour of every day with the same number you bring to your raid day, then you got one hell of a chinese gold farming team!

Toodles.

I've already stated I wouldn't bother sticking around if there was variance. I'm not alone.

Make server worse for everyone? Check.
Make people quit the server? Check.

It's remarkable they haven't done this already.

[lite]

I've already stated I wouldn't bother sticking around if there was variance. I'm not alone.

Make server worse for everyone? Check.
Make people quit the server? Check.

It's remarkable they haven't done this already.

Casuals can't just show up once a week to get loot = make server worse for everyone ? lol
Make people quit the server ? = All of Azrael and other veteran competition would return since there's more PVP ? lvl 60 PVP would actually happen once more...

It's remarkable they haven't done this .. yeah , real remarkable. 3 years later a server in whose existance is composed of 95% of the time no pvp. Let's keep it teh same.

[mostbitter]

isn't that how i got all my loot tho? what gives???

[Kergan]

Casuals can't just show up once a week to get loot = make server worse for everyone ? lol
Make people quit the server ? = All of Azrael and other veteran competition would return since there's more PVP ? lvl 60 PVP would actually happen once more...

It's remarkable they haven't done this .. yeah , real remarkable. 3 years later a server in whose existance is composed of 95% of the time no pvp. Let's keep it teh same.

So you're anti neckbeard or anti casual?

Anti everyone? Sounds about right.

[lite]

So you're anti neckbeard or anti casual?

Anti everyone? Sounds about right.

I've never said I was anti neck beard, I've always supported Nihilum's model and I think it suits them well. The problem is a ruleset where Zerg means noone else can play. As I've stated, I am certain Nihilum would still get 90% + of the mobs, we don't care. We just want to have a chance at engaging something other than 50 Nihilum in the 3 hour window everything is perfectly lined up at, every week.

[Kergan]

I've never said I was anti neck beard, I've always supported Nihilum's model and I think it suits them well. The problem is a ruleset where Zerg means noone else can play. As I've stated, I am certain Nihilum would still get 90% + of the mobs, we don't care. We just want to have a chance at engaging something other than 50 Nihilum in the 3 hour window everything is perfectly lined up at, every week.

2-3 raid targets went to Hokuten the last 2 simulated repops. Somehow the entire raid scene wasn't shit up in the process. So whats your problem again?


We just want to have a chance at engaging something other than 50 Nihilum in the 3 hour window everything is perfectly lined up at, every week.

Ok then. Problem solved, pls move this thread to resolved thanks.

[lite]

every 2 weeks everyone goes their own separate way and free loot is acquired... I can see how you have no problem with that.

[Kergan]

You realize they removed variance from blue because people hated it so much right?

[Kergan]

every 2 weeks everyone goes their own separate way and free loot is acquired... I can see how you have no problem with that.

Is gear inflation really an issue this far in?

[lite]

You realize they removed variance from blue because people hated it so much right?

what does blue have to do with anything?

[Kergan]

what does blue have to do with anything?

Responding to this:

Data would show us that Blue99 is thriving under a variance system.

[lite]

Is gear inflation really an issue this far in?

the point is it encourages 0 pvp, where with variance people would have to PVP to keep control of expected spawn zones. I can see how you wouldn't consider that angle at all as it is not a topic of interest to the likes of you.

[Kergan]

That's not the same as variance and you know it. There is no poopsocking, trying to monitor 24/7. That is EQ at its absolute worst.

A repop randomly when you know all the raid targets up is exciting. Logging on a level 46 ranger trackbot is not. Plus its a near guarantee raid targets go outside of Nihilum which is exactly what you're trying to accomplish.

Variance leading to PVP is this assumption you have Lite. I don't agree with it. I don't think it'll add PVP at all. You have this vision in your head of all these battles to hold down key spots in key zones and shit, it just wont happen.

On top of all of that, you've said many times you don't want to play like Nihilum. You can't/wont invest the time.

Your solution is to add even more cumbersome bullshit and time requirements into the game so you can compete? It's just borderline retarded man.

[lite]

That's not the same as variance and you know it. There is no poopsocking, trying to monitor 24/7. That is EQ at its absolute worst.

A repop randomly when you know all the raid targets up is exciting. Logging on a level 46 ranger trackbot is not. Plus its a near guarantee raid targets go outside of Nihilum which is exactly what you're trying to accomplish.

Variance leading to PVP is this assumption you have Lite. I don't agree with it. I don't think it'll add PVP at all. You have this vision in your head of all these battles to hold down key spots in key zones and shit, it just wont happen.

On top of all of that, you've said many times you don't want to play like Nihilum. You can't/wont invest the time.

Your solution is to add even more cumbersome bullshit and time requirements into the game so you can compete? It's just borderline retarded man.


http://s17.postimg.org/4xwc0j7lr/Untitled_2.jpg

do you disagree, what part do you disagree with ? Checkraise says based off first hand experience it improved everything. he played both live and here for long periods of time and has experience attempting to make a guild happen. And is on your team..

[Kergan]

I 100% disagree with everything said in those linked HB posts.

[Kergan]

And if you used a quote instead of a stupid screenshot I could go back to that thread and probably link my own disagreements posted in it. :P

[lite]

I 100% disagree with everything said in those linked HB posts.

As one of the few people here who have played eq live from release until two years ago, variance created a shit ton more competition.

so you disagree with this ? You are saying checkraise is wrong and Variance didn't create a shit ton more competition ...even though he played and saw it happen?

Cast already proved 100x over how variance is better. literally the only argument against variance is that it makes farming mobs people don't need for the sole purpose of cock blocking more difficult to do. Grats.

[Kergan]

I am saying I disagree with HB regarding his previous stance on variance.

Pretty sure he didn't play on a PVP server either (on live), so by your own previously stated viewpoints that opinion wouldn't be valid to you either, yet you keep linking it. I could be wrong though.

Funny part was he changed his mind before joining Nihilum and got on the simulated repop bandwagon if I recall.

Regardless, your constant attempts to somehow get us to turn on each other or something is pretty transparent. We're both grown ups and semi-pro FQers. Ain't gonna happen.

[lite]

Checkraise changes his mind every other day. It doesn't make the argument any less correct. Address the points the argument makes.

[derpcake]

A repop randomly when you know all the raid targets up is exciting.

So juts make the spawn window big enough to make it pretty much random?

Sweet!

[Kergan]

Fine.

What happened on EQ live means shit here, not even worth talking about. Let alone what happened on an EQ live blue server 15 years ago.

Second, I disagree with the assumption that the only reason you could be anti variance is you don't want to make it harder on Nihilum. I don't want to make it harder on anyone, including potential competition.

For the last time man, there are better ways to do this then forcing people to poopsock. There isn't anything else I can really say on the matter...you have your opinion of what will happen in a variance situation and I think the complete opposite. Both of us have talked about this subject to ad nauseam. Nobody wants to see me post in another one of your variance threads again, and nobody wants to see another one of your variance threads.

At this point, we're just rehashing the same pointless drivel. We need the staff to come in and say one of 3 things:

1. We're still considering it (i.e. keep debating)
2. Its going to happen
3. Its not going to happen

[Kergan]

So juts make the spawn window big enough to make it pretty much random?

Sweet!

A random independent repop where all targets come up simultaneously with a serverwide warning is a pretty big difference from variance dude. D- on the troll.

[heartbrand]

Not that it matters, but the reasons I "supported" variance at the time no longer apply. The server pop was half, Nihilum was raiding with fewer numbers, sim repops didn't exist, and Nihilum members were threatening to quit over it. It was a way to grief Nihilum into quitting / giving up, and thus strengthen my own guild. Aka it was a selfish argument not based on lasting server health, but based on momentary gain for my own guild. I was also building my guild to be a poopsocking pve guild who could stand to benefit / exploit variance as opposed to a small crew of pvpers who would get wrecked by variance's requirement that you zerg [see: blue]. Thanks!

[Uuruk]

Lite just doesn't want to run into 50 nihi and get shit on. PvP server amirite.

[Andis]

whatever HB wrote, I did not read.

[Tassador]

Lite just doesn't want to run into 50 nihi and get shit on. PvP server amirite.

Would you want to run into 50 neck beards zerging 2 years straight foaming at the mouth over 7th alt bis? I wouldn't shit does not sound fun keep raging ass clown.

[Mac Drettj]

Why is lite obsessed with hb comments?

[Uuruk]

Would you want to run into 50 neck beards zerging 2 years straight foaming at the mouth over 7th alt bis? I wouldn't shit does not sound fun keep raging ass clown.

Probably should play on blue then and quit crying.

[R Flair]

Not that it matters, but the reasons I "supported" variance at the time no longer apply. The server pop was half, Nihilum was raiding with fewer numbers, sim repops didn't exist, and Nihilum members were threatening to quit over it.

It was a way to grief Nihilum into quitting / giving up, and thus strengthen my own guild.

Aka it was a selfish argument not based on lasting server health, but based on momentary gain for my own guild.

I was also building my guild to be a poopsocking pve guild who could stand to benefit / exploit variance as opposed to a small crew of pvpers who would get wrecked by variance's requirement that you zerg [see: blue]. Thanks!

The only honest post by someone who was pro-variance that ever existed on this forum