Chuck_still_a_virgin
07-16-2014, 07:15 PM
While I'm good with the last half of your post, I feel like we've seen way too much of the first half. I think modern MMO players (and possibly even the EQN dev team) are trying to retcon what EQ1 was "trying" to do back in the day.
The main thing EQ1 was trying to do was make a 3D MUD. In fact you might want to read the Wikipedia blurb about the DikuMUD controversy.
I think people are ignoring how much gaming has changed over the last fifteen years and really doing an injustice to what the original VisionTM was. Almost all of us were on dial up modems back then. Battle.net was only three years old. Although the two Elder Scrolls games out at the time (Arena and Daggerfall - Morrowind wouldn't release for three more years) had real time combat it was hardly dynamic and neither were really built around combat. You did have some quasi-RPG shooters like Hexen but the modern action RPG formula really didn't exist at all.
I'm not really sure what you mean about EQ1 trying to making a world to play in and it not being able to be done. I disagree with you entirely. EQ1 tried to make a world to play in and they fucking nailed it.
You were dropped in a world without anyone holding your hand, really without any idea of who or where you were. The latter you would figure out over time and the former you would decide for yourself over time. The help you got wasn't from the game itself from other players (spoiler: that's creating a world) and maybe if you were lucky a real life friend sitting next to you at your computer giving you pointers.
The immersion was real. Although you could swap to third person, you were in first person by default and the game didn't allow you to alt-tab out. The subtext for EQ1 was "You're in our world now" and they meant it.
You began the game somewhere in a town without a map, with a weapon, and off-hand item, some spells if you were a caster, food and drink, and a note that you could turn in to your class guildmaster for an equippable chest item. You walked around the town meeting merchants and other NPC's, some who would talk to you and some who wouldn't, and eventually you'd find your way out of town. Outside of town you could kill some rats or beetles or whatever and figure out the basics of combat. If you couldn't hack it you could just run back to the guards who would save you. The beetle eyes and rat whiskers you collected you could sell to city merchants and hopefully save up some money to buy more items from players or NPC's.
The cool part about this though was that this wasn't a single player non-linear RPG like Daggerfall - the cool part was that there were other people running around doing the same thing you were. And you talked to them. You didn't just click buttons and queue up with them to do a dungeon or kill a dragon (a game); you actually used your keyboard to talk to these people and ask for help and offer help and get to know them (a world). This was five years before the first iteration of Facebook but you had a friends list and the first think you did when you logged on was typed "/who all FRIENDS" to see which ones were on and then you started chatting them up to see what was going on in-game and what you could be a part of. Later on you'd join a guild which even further added to this social world immersion.
Your character was kind of two people at the same time: your social character who was whoever you'd managed to become through social connections, and your game character who was a collection of the items and skills you'd amassed. Items were important in EQ1. Many times you'd wind up using an item for weeks or even months - it had real value and even when you were done with it you'd pass it on to someone else (a world). Items were not just stat modifiers which changed every few days as you blazed through content (a game). Hell, there were some items which you never stopped carrying because they had some effect on them which no other item in the game offered.
Anything you did had to be done real time with real people. This was a world and if you wanted to go somewhere else you had to either haul your ass there or find someone (or be someone) who could use [higher level] magic to teleport across the world. This was not a 3D matchmaking lobby that found you dungeons/groupmembers/PvP by clicking a few buttons and then immersion-breakingly putting you all together for 15 minutes of fun before you part ways and never see or talk to each other again (a game).
You saw the same people over and over again every day, every week, because the game was slow to progress through and it was a real commitment to relocate within the world (a world). It wasn't different people every day (who you don't even communicate with or get to know) because relocating to another part of the world (or hell, a different server) wasn't even an option.
EQ1 was also messy because it was a world rather than a game. There was so much you could do in EQ1, not necessarily stuff you should do, but you could do because they built a world and said "These are the rules of this world, now go have fun." So yeah you could attack your guildmaster and get your ass kicked. You could kill the guards outside town. You could also give high level buffs to low level players that would last for half an hour or more helping them.
TL;DR:
Anyway this is getting really long. I doubt anyone will read it. My main point is that I disagree entirely with your statements that "EQN is doing what EQ1 TRIED to do but couldnt because the technology wasnt there at the time" and "EQ1 tried this, but it could not be done, not at the time." While there were technology limitations that EQ1 had to deal with, it did not stop them from accomplishing what they were accomplishing. They did not fail at creating the world they were attempting to create. EQ1 was a homerun. It had it's issues, yeah, but they made more than a game - they did make a world and they did it with the technology they had at the time.
What's EQN going to be like? I don't know. It's too early to tell, for any of us. There are a lot of MMO models that can be followed, and there's an MMO graveyard full of ways to fail at making an MMO. There are a small handful of MMO's which have survived the test of time. Since EQ1 is one of these models and since this is EverQuest Next I just hope they don't depart too far from their progenitor's model.
I liked this post I read on the interwebs. Post your own.
The main thing EQ1 was trying to do was make a 3D MUD. In fact you might want to read the Wikipedia blurb about the DikuMUD controversy.
I think people are ignoring how much gaming has changed over the last fifteen years and really doing an injustice to what the original VisionTM was. Almost all of us were on dial up modems back then. Battle.net was only three years old. Although the two Elder Scrolls games out at the time (Arena and Daggerfall - Morrowind wouldn't release for three more years) had real time combat it was hardly dynamic and neither were really built around combat. You did have some quasi-RPG shooters like Hexen but the modern action RPG formula really didn't exist at all.
I'm not really sure what you mean about EQ1 trying to making a world to play in and it not being able to be done. I disagree with you entirely. EQ1 tried to make a world to play in and they fucking nailed it.
You were dropped in a world without anyone holding your hand, really without any idea of who or where you were. The latter you would figure out over time and the former you would decide for yourself over time. The help you got wasn't from the game itself from other players (spoiler: that's creating a world) and maybe if you were lucky a real life friend sitting next to you at your computer giving you pointers.
The immersion was real. Although you could swap to third person, you were in first person by default and the game didn't allow you to alt-tab out. The subtext for EQ1 was "You're in our world now" and they meant it.
You began the game somewhere in a town without a map, with a weapon, and off-hand item, some spells if you were a caster, food and drink, and a note that you could turn in to your class guildmaster for an equippable chest item. You walked around the town meeting merchants and other NPC's, some who would talk to you and some who wouldn't, and eventually you'd find your way out of town. Outside of town you could kill some rats or beetles or whatever and figure out the basics of combat. If you couldn't hack it you could just run back to the guards who would save you. The beetle eyes and rat whiskers you collected you could sell to city merchants and hopefully save up some money to buy more items from players or NPC's.
The cool part about this though was that this wasn't a single player non-linear RPG like Daggerfall - the cool part was that there were other people running around doing the same thing you were. And you talked to them. You didn't just click buttons and queue up with them to do a dungeon or kill a dragon (a game); you actually used your keyboard to talk to these people and ask for help and offer help and get to know them (a world). This was five years before the first iteration of Facebook but you had a friends list and the first think you did when you logged on was typed "/who all FRIENDS" to see which ones were on and then you started chatting them up to see what was going on in-game and what you could be a part of. Later on you'd join a guild which even further added to this social world immersion.
Your character was kind of two people at the same time: your social character who was whoever you'd managed to become through social connections, and your game character who was a collection of the items and skills you'd amassed. Items were important in EQ1. Many times you'd wind up using an item for weeks or even months - it had real value and even when you were done with it you'd pass it on to someone else (a world). Items were not just stat modifiers which changed every few days as you blazed through content (a game). Hell, there were some items which you never stopped carrying because they had some effect on them which no other item in the game offered.
Anything you did had to be done real time with real people. This was a world and if you wanted to go somewhere else you had to either haul your ass there or find someone (or be someone) who could use [higher level] magic to teleport across the world. This was not a 3D matchmaking lobby that found you dungeons/groupmembers/PvP by clicking a few buttons and then immersion-breakingly putting you all together for 15 minutes of fun before you part ways and never see or talk to each other again (a game).
You saw the same people over and over again every day, every week, because the game was slow to progress through and it was a real commitment to relocate within the world (a world). It wasn't different people every day (who you don't even communicate with or get to know) because relocating to another part of the world (or hell, a different server) wasn't even an option.
EQ1 was also messy because it was a world rather than a game. There was so much you could do in EQ1, not necessarily stuff you should do, but you could do because they built a world and said "These are the rules of this world, now go have fun." So yeah you could attack your guildmaster and get your ass kicked. You could kill the guards outside town. You could also give high level buffs to low level players that would last for half an hour or more helping them.
TL;DR:
Anyway this is getting really long. I doubt anyone will read it. My main point is that I disagree entirely with your statements that "EQN is doing what EQ1 TRIED to do but couldnt because the technology wasnt there at the time" and "EQ1 tried this, but it could not be done, not at the time." While there were technology limitations that EQ1 had to deal with, it did not stop them from accomplishing what they were accomplishing. They did not fail at creating the world they were attempting to create. EQ1 was a homerun. It had it's issues, yeah, but they made more than a game - they did make a world and they did it with the technology they had at the time.
What's EQN going to be like? I don't know. It's too early to tell, for any of us. There are a lot of MMO models that can be followed, and there's an MMO graveyard full of ways to fail at making an MMO. There are a small handful of MMO's which have survived the test of time. Since EQ1 is one of these models and since this is EverQuest Next I just hope they don't depart too far from their progenitor's model.
I liked this post I read on the interwebs. Post your own.