Interface Features

[Daldaen]

So as everyone knows. We should be rolling with classic UIs:

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x205/Daldaen/EQ0000000_zpsaf404b17.png

Or with the Velious UI:

http://www.notacult.com/images/kinekdead.jpg

These UIs were excellent, and classic. They had certain restrictions. Restrictions which we are currently not bound by. After seeing the classicness that the devs were able to do with the compass, song and map windows... I'm wondering if you can work magic again to make this server even more classic.


Hotbars - We should be limited to a single 10-slot hotbar through the duration of this server.
Chat Windows - We should be limited to a single *but resizeable and filterable* chat window for the entire life of the server.
Percentages - EQ Interfaces weren't able to display percentages for HP/Mana/Stamina in windows until after the Luclin UI was introduced. IE late 2003 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20030514.html)
Mana Value - You shouldn't be able to display a mana value in your inventory window until July 2004 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20040714.html)
Combat Ability Window - We shouldn't have this yet (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151969)
Buff Timers - You shouldn't be able to hold ALT or hover over individual buffs and find out how much longer they have.
Item Links - You shouldn't be able to look at/create item links. This was a September 2002 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020904.html) addition.
Makeleader - This shouldn't function until July 2002 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020724.html)
Pet Window - This window wasn't added until July 2002 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020724.html)
Cycle Target Hotkey - This hotkey wasn't added until April 2004 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20040414.html)

For 1,2,5,9,10 is there any way to disable these like you did the Map/Compass?
For 3,4,6,7,8 I'm guessing these are client side and tough to fix?

Lets get some non-classic UI features out of this box!

[khanable]

To build on this, a little bit, the /makeleader command shouldn't exist.

Unclassic CoTH chains.

Devs: Can the list in OP be worked on by anyone other than yourselves? Can we download standard eqemu code and try to work fixes for it or would we need the code base you folks use?

edit: don't forget ITEM LINKING!

[Daldaen]

Got to love Cucumber keeping it classic. What do you mean unclassic CoTH chains? You can't /invite people that you don't have targeted here last I checked. Could still Levant/Abscond as leader and invite people.

[Rhambuk]

Would you do cucumbers? I'd do cucumbers, I'd do cucumbers so hard.

[Daldaen]

Anyone would do Cucumbers. The dude loves classic so hard. Just look at his big post record. He is confirmed ClassicQuesting Extraordinare. Haynar, can you give final confirmation here on Cucumber's status?

[happyhappy]

So as everyone knows. We should be rolling with classic UIs:

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x205/Daldaen/EQ0000000_zpsaf404b17.png

Or with the Velious UI:

http://www.notacult.com/images/kinekdead.jpg

These UIs were excellent, and classic. They had certain restrictions. Restrictions which we are currently not bounded by. After seeing the classicness that the devs were able to do with the compass, song and map windows... I'm wondering if you can work magic again to make this server even more classic.

[LIST=1]
Hotbars - We should be limited to a single 10-slot hotbar through the duration of this server.

http://www.hyperhighway.com/bilgehunter/images/Hunter/used/eq000022.jpg

6 slot hotbar, not 10.

The classic UI from dualidentity (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117424) does that already so I'm sure there's a way to implement it.

[Thulack]

Confirmation is one of my job duties.

Cucumbers is a Classic Boss!!

H

Don't kill me for editting a dev post but i had to.

[Daldaen]

http://www.hyperhighway.com/bilgehunter/images/Hunter/used/eq000022.jpg

6 slot hotbar, not 10.

The classic UI from dualidentity (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117424) does that already so I'm sure there's a way to implement it.

It was 6 then 10.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/aktunka/SAP8GEvKy5I/AAAAAAAAAL8/BxBl7g78A4k/s400/EQ000216.jpg

I think 10 was Velious? Must research more.

[Haynar]

Don't kill me for editting a dev post but i had to.
Needs to be funnier. Classic Boss? Meh.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I'm chubbin

[happyhappy]

It was 6 then 10.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/aktunka/SAP8GEvKy5I/AAAAAAAAAL8/BxBl7g78A4k/s400/EQ000216.jpg

I think 10 was Velious? Must research more.

You are correct, it changed on nov15 patch 2000, my bad.

------------------------------
November 15, 2000 3:00 am
------------------------------
-- You now have 10 pages of 10 hotboxes each when in full screen mode.

[Man0warr]

I would quit if the old UI was forced on me, and I'm sure a ton of others would too :D

Classic mechanics are one thing, but shitty UI design does not need to be replicated.

[Daldaen]

I would quit if the old UI was forced on me, and I'm sure a ton of others would too :D

Classic mechanics are one thing, but shitty UI design does not need to be replicated.

Sorry this is a Classic server. We need classic UI features on the server and non-classic features removed. Especially those that grant power like knowing when buff timers will be up or having 11+ hotkeys accessible without changing pages.

Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999 and onward.

[Thulack]

Needs to be funnier. Classic Boss? Meh.

/sigh i know i didnt do you justice. I was on my way out the door for work and if you ask Dald he'll tell you i'm not that funny anyway :D

[Daldaen]

/sigh i know i didnt do you justice. I was on my way out the door for work and if you ask Dald he'll tell you i'm not that funny anyway :D

This man's idea of funny is this:

Intitate a trade for a really useless item
Crash the zone
Make sure to bug out the character (me) you were trading with for the next 2 months


But on topic. Nilbog cares not whether people want classic features. All Nilbog cares about is whether they are indeed classic. And my list, good sirs, is indeed classic.

[Rhambuk]

Sorry this is a Classic server. We need classic UI features on the server and non-classic features removed. Especially those that grant power like knowing when buff timers will be up or having 11+ hotkeys accessible without changing pages.

Hear, Hear!

[Haynar]

Secrets is one of the best at figuring these things out.

Mods that affect what parts of the UI work are a pita.

Ultimately, even if we figure it out, its nilbog and rogean that decide what goes in.

H

[Telin]

I'd be happy with a transparent classic UI that can work with HD resolutions.

As far as UI display settings:

You should not be able to adjust spell particle settings beyond on/off.
You should not be able to adjust environment or weapon particles at all.
Shadow option should be forced off.

[Haynar]

I think we need to explore disabling the directx lighting.

H

[Daldaen]

/Approved.

Would love to have some Nilbog posts regarding at the very least disabling multi-hotbars and multi-chat windows. Those are two of the bigger ones that I was guessing may be disabled similar to compass/map/songs.

Classic UI changes would be great for the server. Getting people to get an even more authentic grouping and gameplay experience.

[Haynar]

Classic UI changes would be great for the server. Getting people to get an even more authentic grouping and gameplay experience.
And I will still never want to group and will forever prefer boxing. Grouping is for raids. To me, that is what classic EQ was.

H

[Daldaen]

And I will still never want to group and will forever prefer boxing. Grouping is for raids. To me, that is what classic EQ was.

H

<3. This is why I like you.

[khanable]

Got to love Cucumber keeping it classic. What do you mean unclassic CoTH chains? You can't /invite people that you don't have targeted here last I checked. Could still Levant/Abscond as leader and invite people.

Aye, I was more eluding to the idea you can use makeleader to make life a bit easier in some situations. Example: group of 5 including a necromancer and a mage in a dungeon, new guy at entrance wants a coth down and necro isn't leader. /makeleader and done.

Classically, everyone disbands and the necro invites and goes to fetch the guy :p

[Daldaen]

Ahh good call.

Damn we need to keep it classic up in this B.

Also worth noting, in the classic UIs the group leader's name was displayed in yellow text in the group window, and if you were the leader it would display in your character info window. Classic UI did have some great features!

[Daldaen]

Bump, added pet window to this mix! I forgot that was a Luclin addition!

[drelk001]

I'd be happy with a transparent classic UI that can work with HD resolutions.

As far as UI display settings:

You should not be able to adjust spell particle settings beyond on/off.
You should not be able to adjust environment or weapon particles at all.
Shadow option should be forced off.

I agree totally, I dont remember shadows in classic EQ :P

[SyanideGas]

STOP TRYING TO FORCE NEW THINGS ON THE SERVER FOR ME TO LEARN. NERDS.


If they patched any of that stuff in I would prolly die irl. My comp is shit and cant handle all those shiny particles!

[Daldaen]

But forcing these things would make playing so much more classic. People having multi-chat windows and multi-Hotbutton windows gives them an advantage that classic players never had. Which is bad and gives them inflated egos about how much better at EQ they are as compared to themselves 14 years ago.

Classicizes UIs and see how people adapt to true classic play.

[Ambrotos]

So as everyone knows. We should be rolling with classic UIs:

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x205/Daldaen/EQ0000000_zpsaf404b17.png
!

F10 was an amazing aspect to that UI. Why do people forget about the F10?!

[Pudge]

make sure you put in the limit of 1 chat box. should also force ppl to play with 200 ping and 800x600 resolution. cap their fps to 40. and have their mom make them to go to bed at 11:00 on weeknights.

don't forget to remove item linking, mortgage payments, a job, or wife and kids (granted, those last two might already be done)

[Haynar]

make sure you put in the limit of 1 chat box. should also force ppl to play with 200 ping and 800x600 resolution. cap their fps to 40. and have their mom make them to go to bed at 11:00 on weeknights.

don't forget to remove item linking, mortgage payments, a job, or wife and kids (granted, those last two might already be done)
1 chatbox? Maybe for non-staff. Heh.
Debated throttling ppl to 56k equivalent. Nah.
Item linking? No. CS total nightmare with trade scammers.
Cap FPS? Thought about it, nah.
800x600? Hah. In a viewport too. We are getting older. I dont know abt ur eyesight, but i am getting close to 50. Hell no.
Mortgage payment? Hoping to have house paid off in next 5 years. Check.
Kids? Started over. Again. Youngest is 1. Nope.
Bedtime at 11? See age again. Check.

H

[SyanideGas]

I can't live with just 1 chatbox... Nothx

[Daldaen]

You did 15 years ago NP. You will again when the great classic patch occurs. Oh the the fun it will be!

[Mindif]

You did 15 years ago NP. You will again when the great classic patch occurs. Oh the the fun it will be!

i was also forced to use my hand as my only sexual gratification.I dont want to go back to that either

[Daldaen]

Indeed.

But you chose to come back to this 15 year old game. You could also choose to go back to when you were 15 years old, with no game. But... You don't, cause boobs.

[Nirgon]

I want the rear view mirror in the top right while I'm looting SOMEONE (hint) or something.

Shit's immersive.

[Potus]

Yes, wasting valuable developer time on this is a great idea. Shadows ruins my immersion, and there's literally nothing I can do besides turn it off in the options. Please bring down servers until this is remedied.

[Daldaen]

Shadows meh.

Stuff that allows you do more things more quickly like having multiple chat windows or have multiple hotbutton windows simultaneously should be burned with fire.

Or have multiple bags open. Weren't you limited to a single bag being opened and you had to close it to open another?

[Lopretni]

I would quit if the old UI was forced on me, and I'm sure a ton of others would too :D

Classic mechanics are one thing, but shitty UI design does not need to be replicated.

I wouldn't leave but making the game play worse for the sake of MUH CLASSIC is beyond stupid, people can gimp their own games if they want.

make sure you put in the limit of 1 chat box. should also force ppl to play with 200 ping and 800x600 resolution. cap their fps to 40. and have their mom make them to go to bed at 11:00 on weeknights.

don't forget to remove item linking, mortgage payments, a job, or wife and kids (granted, those last two might already be done)

This.


People advocating for forcing this on others have brain damage.

[Daldaen]

Whether you understand it or not, many of these UI features are power gains. It would be like allowing extended target window or health of target's target window or debuff window in game. Cause those certainly improved gameplay. Lets have those even though not classic...

[Daldaen]

Added #10.

Should not be able to cycle NPC or PC with a hotkey. This totally trivializes CCing on a chanter/bard. It is extremely non-classic. Also makes gameplay easier for healers and debuffed etc. And it makes powerleveling very easy when it shouldn't be.

Let's disable those hotkeys if possible. Then we can see who are the good enchanters and who rely on this non-classic crutch too much.

[Raev]

Which is bad and gives them inflated egos about how much better at EQ they are as compared to themselves 14 years ago.

I'm pretty sure you are the only one who cares there.

GUI features make the game, you know, fun. Because I can actually chat with my friends while watching battle spam scroll by. If we were limited to one chatbox I think I would quit on the spot.

/makeleader should go though, I bet that's really easy to do.

[khanable]

I care too :(

[Daldaen]

Don't need battle spam at all. Just chat, and your own messages.

All classic screenshots support this.

Multi chat bars is far less powerful than multi Hotbutton bars, and cycle targets. Those getting nuked would be good for the server.

[Nirgon]

Hey Dald here's one


You shouldn't be able to see your mana as a numeric value

Your thought`s?

[Daldaen]

Hey Dald here's one


You shouldn't be able to see your mana as a numeric value

Your thought`s?

See #4 of my OP.

[Crom]

unless the original UI is forced on everyone, NONE of the above changes are classic!
and it would be very UNclassic to add any of them.

(forgot to add I approve 100% of the orginal UI)

[Nirgon]

See #4 of my OP.

attempt at Sirlious reference 8]

[Daldaen]

Ahh lol wasn't really paying attention.

But yea, so many changes that would make this box much harder to play. $$$

[Daldaen]

Bump.

Classic UI changes for a Classic Experience.

Let us see who are the true ClassicQuesters among us. Those who can't CC without a cycle hotkey. Those who can Canni Dance without a mana value shown. Those who will exp without seeing a % increase in their exp total. Those who can bard with a single hotbar window. Those who can PvP without non-classic Chatboxes for /who. Those who can be EQ Fat Cats without item linking.

So many aspects of the game will improve with truly classic interface changes. Amen.

[Nirgon]

HP meters changing gradually instead of instantly :)

[Lunababy]

I'm going to oppose this and say the goal of the server should be Classic Gameplay, not Classic Everything. Please, having to manually stand up, not seeing shit due to the resolution, etc does not benefit anyone and is just frustrating.

It was that way in 1999 due to restrictions, not intentional design.

[Daldaen]

Interface features impact gameplay.

A bard with access to 20 or 30 hotbuttons without having to switch pages has more power than one limited to the classic 10. This is wrong, they shouldn't have this extra power until well after Velious.
A PvP player with access to multiple chat boxes can devote one to whos and one to casting messages, allowing you to more effectively keep track of who is in zone and who is doing what in a battle. This is not classic.
A player able to know exact mana values based on the value shown in their UI, can more precisely know when they have gained a meditation tick and stand to cast a mana they barely have mana for, again unclassic.
Combat ability window, again you should be limited to 10 hotbuttons until you switch pages.
Buff duration... again, very powerful to know how much time you've got on your SoW before you begin a kite with a simple mouse over.

etc. etc.

Quite a few of these were by design. The discipline system/10 hotbuttons for example. They were designed like that, just like spells were designed with 8 slots available. You had to pick what was important to you and use those, or if you wanted to swap inbetween different abilities or hotkeys, you had to tab and shuffle through them.

Every one of these allows you to play the game more easily than you did in P99. Things that could theoretically be limited unlike Monitor Size or Internet Speed.

Too many people play MetaQuest, worrying about BIS gear, maximizing efficiency in meditating, only killing in high ZEM areas where you get 1%+ a kill... they need these UI changes to get Classic Gameplay back.

[Lunababy]

Having 10 hotbar buttons and having 20 hotbar buttons on two different pages that have to be tabbed through are not the same. One is design restriction, one is an inaccessible (annoying) UI.

[Jimjam]

The find button should be a who button.

I hate that find button.

[Daldaen]

Bump.

Too many players forget what playing classic was like.

Can we nuke certain key binds like cycle NPC/PC at the very least. Determine who the good enchanters are among us?

[wycca]

I'm all for Velious ui!

Coth chains and makeleader - you can invite anyone you have targeted, so theres a way around that, just get a target first before re-forming. That's classic.

These things aren't classic and should be changed too -

- /assist should have unlimited range and no LoS barriers
- /tells should not be queue'd, zoning? you don't get a tell!

[Pint]

If these issues are ruining your classic experience you could always just not use them, nobody is forcing anyone's hand here

[Sage Truthbearer]

Someone probably already mentioned it, but if I remember correctly the classic client did not allow you to play in Windowed mode or be able to alt+tab without crashing.

[Weidar]

Can someone inform me on what is considered classic eq?

I read all suggestions and i can understand the points but what exactly is classic, everything up until the very first patch, the first month of play or everything up until but not including the first expansion?

Or is EQ + the first two expansions classic? What date in time did classic end?

Please enlighten me.

[Paleman]

is it possible to make it so we can only play on p99 through a CRT monitor?

[Kender]

is it possible to make it so we can only play on p99 through a CRT monitor?

CRT monitors are no longer produced. obtaining one can be difficult

[Paleman]

CRT monitors are no longer produced. obtaining one can be difficult

maybe we can go even further and make the client only runnable on 3dfx cards

[AtlasMinor]

Can someone inform me on what is considered classic eq?

I read all suggestions and i can understand the points but what exactly is classic, everything up until the very first patch, the first month of play or everything up until but not including the first expansion?

Or is EQ + the first two expansions classic? What date in time did classic end?

Please enlighten me.


Good Lowly Molly ,

whew, talk about some classic indecision ....

Think i can lead you in the right direct Weider.

To start "The original design is credited to Brad McQuaid, Steve Clover, and Bill Trost. It was developed by Sony's 989 Studios and its early-1999 spin-off Verant Interactive, and published by Sony Online Entertainment (SOE).

Its acquisition of Verant in late 1999, SOE develops, runs, and distributes EverQuest.

The UI thats being discussed is the old Verant design that sony slowly changed over the course of time for technology / monitor resolution purposes.

pic here of a in-game velious scrennie. Sony had RIGHTS to this game at this time, no one forget that, don't care who thinks who is.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10/12/the-game-archaeologist-a-history-of-everquest-expansions/

Look for The Tattered Notebook, its been passed around a lot and ended up in joystiqs hands, its truly tattered. If anyone cared to know what happened to it, its found there with joystiq. Joystiq is big players now bought tons of stuff, anyways....

Dig through that you will find every answer ever needed. Stepping into SoV is now stepping into Sony territory. For what ever reason someone decided to not like them it shouldn't be the UI's fault, it was about the only improvement the player base eventually saw.

The game while in Verants hands only ran at 640x480 resolution, the UI was broken apart to allow max resolution of 800x600

What you would need to actually pull that off... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Graphics_Array

If the game is still going to support the higher resolutions there shouldnt be any problems, if someone trys to change whats built into titanium_Client don't worry, the servers wont even connect to players with file sets so far off. Thats a server-to-client fact, hopefully new game files will be released, they would have to.

Its a very classic experience, people should say thankyou for just seeing it don't knock it if you haven't tried it, this game used to be very fun
with a real feel to it that i found while enjoying myself on a free server players won't find on any live server.

I played with the default old.ui until the live servers forced my hand into playing with the new one.

My2Cents.

[Thulack]

CRT monitors are no longer produced. obtaining one can be difficult

i got about 30 15" crt monitors. 150$ each and there is no bay for these bitches!!!

[Weidar]

AtlasMinor. Thanks for your input.

I have now read the faq and according to that the years 1999-2001 are considered classic on this server.

"Shadows of Luclin was released in December 4th 2001, so almost everything from 1999 through 2001 is considered classic"

Now there is the word almost thrown in there, so im not sure what parts might not be considered classic, regarding UI and gameplay and so on, but its nice to have a reference because classic seems to differ from person to person.

[AtlasMinor]

AtlasMinor. Thanks for your input.

I have now read the faq and according to that the years 1999-2001 are considered classic on this server.

"Shadows of Luclin was released in December 4th 2001, so almost everything from 1999 through 2001 is considered classic"

Now there is the word almost thrown in there, so im not sure what parts might not be considered classic, regarding UI and game-play and so on, but its nice to have a reference because classic seems to differ from person to person.

NP, glad to help .

Iv'e been one person lucky enough to see EQ live for almost all its years, different subs for different SOE games, but it was always a All-Access Pass back before it it is now, now All-Access pretty much allows every game not just the games owned, anyways.

If i wasn't on EQ is was on EQ2, if not EQ2 it SWG till closing/re-opening of SWGEmu :) but always keeping up with all 3.

Tattered Notebook is hard to find, any original content from the past would be nice they have achieved / deleted most of the past Kind of like EQ forums now, not even a Class discussions thread.


NOTE Classic UI was still the Verent UI even during Velious, SOE broke it apart right before Luclin or a little sooner but it was that or there was a none-released patch with optional website download at first, SOE wasn't sure something like that but i definitely remember using the Old Solid Verent Design until Luclin. I always thought of Luclin the clear type UI, because it makes you feel like your in space, Just look at the Spell book, its defiantly Sci-Fi Kitty stuff. Clear UIl like staring out of a Astronaut helmet. I picture putting in a respirator when i use those type of UI's and when i look at the retail box i say to myself "Look at them moon boots"! Thats Luclin.

Only thing i liked about Luclin was introduction to bazaar and those Hoppy hopping little mushrooms that always trained the front door to the actual planet, and the funny noises they made when players smacked them, Ha.

[Thulack]

AtlasMinor. Thanks for your input.

I have now read the faq and according to that the years 1999-2001 are considered classic on this server.

"Shadows of Luclin was released in December 4th 2001, so almost everything from 1999 through 2001 is considered classic"

Now there is the word almost thrown in there, so im not sure what parts might not be considered classic, regarding UI and gameplay and so on, but its nice to have a reference because classic seems to differ from person to person.

Pre-AA is Classic.

[Daldaen]

Bumping this post back up as it seems there some hunger for these changes among the developers.

I think a logical next step would be removing the ability to display Mana value in your UI which wasn’t doable until LoY era. You still have your mana bar of course you just can’t see your actual mana value, which most people currently exploit looking at to more easily canni dance or med kite.

Another big one would be the removal of the cycle target hotkey. This makes certain CC roles much easier as a single button allows you to seemlessly cycle through any number of mobs and apply whatever Debuff you are trying to. It also makes powerleveling too easy as you can guarantee you get one hit in on a train of mobs with this button. It would be great if this button could be disabled to emulate a classic experience which was often a struggle trying to target the correct mob quickly.

[Dolalin]

Super advanced classic change would be to remove the reverse follow mousebutton-down camera. It makes a lot of things like bard swarming much easier on p99 than it ever was in classic.

[Ruhtar]

Bumping this post back up as it seems there some hunger for these changes among the developers.

I think a logical next step would be removing the ability to display Mana value in your UI which wasn’t doable until LoY era. You still have your mana bar of course you just can’t see your actual mana value, which most people currently exploit looking at to more easily canni dance or med kite.

Another big one would be the removal of the cycle target hotkey. This makes certain CC roles much easier as a single button allows you to seemlessly cycle through any number of mobs and apply whatever Debuff you are trying to. It also makes powerleveling too easy as you can guarantee you get one hit in on a train of mobs with this button. It would be great if this button could be disabled to emulate a classic experience which was often a struggle trying to target the correct mob quickly.

Why?

[Haynar]

Another big one would be the removal of the cycle target hotkey.
Are you spying on me?

I am trying to figure this one out.

H

[shoestring]

What a great list of fixes to relive the truly classic experience. Thank you for all your efforts, amazing work devs!

[Daldaen]

EverQuest is a game of information and a game of actions based on that information.

Classic UIs limited the information you had access to in a single frame.

Only one chat window so if you wanted to see group chat, zonewide chat, and still fight in combat you had to filter out certain pieces of text so that you wouldn’t be spammed out. This reduced incoming information you may have access to for example you may not see someone else getting hit from a mob behind you.

Inability to display a true max and current mana value, or display percentages of bars in your interface window meant you weren’t able to be precise with spell casting when near low on mana. You’d have to eyeball your mana bar and guess when you had meditated enough to cast another spell. Remember when everyone would talk about bubbles of EXP or bubbles of mana. It’s because they couldn’t see the percentages or the raw values and those 20% bubbles were the clearest descriptive device they could use to articulate their current EXP or Mana.

Having no buff timers means you need to be more cautious when entering into big fights or beginning to kite. Nothing is worse than losing an HP buff or a run speed buff mid fight or kite. This leads to rebuffing more frequently, leading to requiring more frequent med breaks, slowing down your gaming experience in general.

Having no pet window limits your access to your pet and your targets HP levels simultaneously. This makes specific high EXP rate solo strategy’s like reverse charming or swarm kiting to be more challenging to pull off, which is a good thing. Some of the highest EXP methods outside of AE groups shouldn’t be easymode.

Inability to scroll from 1st to 3rd person limits your access to visual information. Is something coming up behind me? Are people in the back of my group being attacked? Is there a train coming? Yes you can use various F9 views but many of these are cumbersome and not intended for regular gameplay. For the most part, players used the first person view for almost all of their gameplay from Classic-PoP, switching the F9 rarely mostly in open zones when kiting, or in dungeons when trying to pause and look around corners or into new rooms etc. By being limited in your access to easily expanded views of the game you have less visual information to make the correct choices. If you try to use F9, you spend valuable time cycling between views and panning just right to look at the spot you want to look.

All of this leads us to the second portion of this. With less information available we still have to make actions. Sending pets, moving our characters, targeting mobs, and using hotkeys/spells/attacking mobs.

By being limited to a single hotbar you are forced to choose a total of 10 (6 if classic) hotkeys you want available immediately. Being forced to choose limits the number of clickies, abilities, and macros you have on hand. You can use the Shift # hotkey to cycle between pages of your hotbar to gain access to another 10 hotkeys. But this is another key stroke that slows you down and it adds potential for human error to catch up with you. Perhaps 1 is your CH macro on your Cleric on page 1 but on page 2 that same 1 hotbutton has you open your spellbook. You are forced to be accurate with your keystrokes to perform the correct action at the correct time to respond effectively to the situation in front of you. Having a single hotbutton page will increase player error which results in a more difficult game.

No Combat Ability window is a similar argument. You’re forced to make /discipline defensive macros and put them in your hotbar somewhere. Again you need to put it somewhere you have easy access to but not somewhere you will accidentally click too early. Furthermore it won’t display the progress of the discipline and give you a visual cue when the discipline is at half duration or almost over. Again lack of information and limited action potential makes the game harder.

No Makeleader command makes the formation of CotH chains more difficult in many scenarios where you cannot pop an eyeball to an entrance of a zone.

No Pet Window forces pet classes to dedicate several hotkeys to controlling their pet which limits the additional macros and clickies they have immediate access to. See above hotbutton discussion about why this makes the game harder.

No Cycle Target Hotkey is a huge change that will impact the power of the most overpowered class, Enchanters. One of the reasons they are overpowered on P99 is due to the easy of mezzing multiple mobs in a pile and trivializing areas. Targeting was actually a tedious process in classic, limited to only your mouse, F8 or manually typing out /target XYZ (which doesn’t work well with multiple mobs of similar/same names). This means that locking down packs of multiple mobs with mez or pacifying multiple mobs before breaking s room is a process that takes longer, limits the time you are able to meditate or may prevent you from being able to actually lock things down at all before they go out of control.

In summary, these “QoL changes” as many refer to them, are actually huge gameplay changes that make P99 far too easy compared to the classic experience.

[Sunderfury]

Deleting a bunch of replies that are just complaints. Limit to evidence based discussion in bug forums please, RnF is for complaints.

[Damarous]

Is the intended behavior of disciplines for melees to have to recreate the hotkeys every time you log in, zone, or reload your UI? I feel like this is not classic, as I never recall on live during classic hearing people having to recreate discipline buttons multiple times per raid/encounter.

[nilbog]

Is the intended behavior of disciplines for melees to have to recreate the hotkeys every time you log in, zone, or reload your UI? I feel like this is not classic, as I never recall on live during classic hearing people having to recreate discipline buttons multiple times per raid/encounter.

What kind of button are you using? Have you tried using /disc disciplinename?

[Damarous]

What kind of button are you using? Have you tried using /disc disciplinename?

I have not. I was using ctrl + c and creating a button. I never played a melee on live prior to the luclin era UI, so I have no idea how disciplines work in classic.

I will test and verify if the issue is i'm just dumb. Thank you for the suggestion.

(E-Marr forever!)

[Daldaen]

So there were no disciplines in classic. It wasn’t until Kunark when disciplines came in.

When they came in every Melee could type the command:

/Discipline

Doing so will give you back a list of the disciplines your class has access to and it will say either you are ready to use your discipline or you need to wait XYZ time until you are ready to use your discipline.

To activate a discipline, you simply make a hotkey that has one line:

/discipline Defensive

Or

/discipline Duelist

Those will activate those disciplines.

The Ctrl + C command for the Combat Ability window was a Gates of Discord addition to the game.

[Damarous]

So there were no disciplines in classic. It wasn’t until Kunark when disciplines came in.

When they came in every Melee could type the command:

/Discipline

Doing so will give you back a list of the disciplines your class has access to and it will say either you are ready to use your discipline or you need to wait XYZ time until you are ready to use your discipline.

To activate a discipline, you simply make a hotkey that has one line:

/discipline Defensive

Or

/discipline Duelist

Those will activate those disciplines.

The Ctrl + C command for the Combat Ability window was a Gates of Discord addition to the game.

Since this is in the bug forum, on my 60 warrior typing /discipline gives no result. I have made a hotkey for /discipline defensive. Just letting you know that the /disc doesn't result in a list of disciplines.

[Damarous]

Since this is in the bug forum, on my 60 warrior typing /discipline gives no result. I have made a hotkey for /discipline defensive. Just letting you know that the /disc doesn't result in a list of disciplines.

Now it works. SO I guess case closed?

[Damarous]

Now it works. SO I guess case closed?

Correction, /discipline only shows the list when you have a cooldown. It does NOT show the disciplines unless there is a cooldown in effect

[Daldaen]

What you should see when just hitting /discipline when off cooldown:

[Mon Jun 24 19:00:49 2013] Usage:/discipline <resistant|fearless|evasive|charge|mightystrike|def ensive|furious|precise|fellstrike|fortitude|aggres sive>.
[Mon Jun 24 19:00:49 2013] You are ready to use a new discipline now.

What you should see when you hit /discipline when on cooldown:

[Mon Jun 24 19:05:53 2013] Usage:/discipline <resistant|fearless|evasive|charge|mightystrike|def ensive|furious|precise|fellstrike|fortitude|aggres sive>.
[Mon Jun 24 19:05:53 2013] You can use a new discipline in 5 minutes 24 seconds.

Sounds like the former has some issues?

[Damarous]

This is what I get when I have used a discipline:

[Wed Sep 11 21:55:37 2019] You can use the ability Resistant Discipline again in 3 minute(s) 3 seconds.
[Wed Sep 11 21:55:37 2019] You can use the ability Fearless Discipline again in 3 minute(s) 3 seconds.
[Wed Sep 11 21:55:37 2019] You can use the ability Evasive Discipline again in 3 minute(s) 3 seconds.
[Wed Sep 11 21:55:37 2019] You can use the ability Charge Discipline again in 3 minute(s) 3 seconds.
[Wed Sep 11 21:55:37 2019] You can use the ability Mighty Strike Discipline again in 3 minute(s) 3 seconds.
[Wed Sep 11 21:55:37 2019] You can use the ability Defensive Discipline again in 3 minute(s) 3 seconds.
[Wed Sep 11 21:55:37 2019] You can use the ability Furious Discipline again in 3 minute(s) 3 seconds.
[Wed Sep 11 21:55:37 2019] You can use the ability Precision Discipline again in 3 minute(s) 3 seconds.
[Wed Sep 11 21:55:37 2019] You can use the ability Fellstrike Discipline again in 3 minute(s) 3 seconds.
[Wed Sep 11 21:55:37 2019] You can use the ability Fortitude Discipline again in 3 minute(s) 3 seconds.
[Wed Sep 11 21:55:37 2019] You can use the ability Aggressive Discipline again in 3 minute(s) 3 seconds.

If I have not used a discipline, I see nothing when typing /disc.