Resist issue since patch thread

[Tecmos Deception]

I dont remember changes to resists. I did optimize a lot of code that searches through spell effects. Its possible that i actually made a few things work, that were broke by accident. And vice versa.

H


Figured since people have only been posting issues about specific spells or spell types so far, we might as well make a thread to list any "odd" things that seem to be happening with resists since the patch.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1511798#post1511798

That is a thread from server chat where, among other things, a 60 ranger comments about green-con mobs nuking him even worse than they have before and a 30 necro gets a LIFETAP resisted by a level 8 mob. Definitely seems like something goofy is happening! Although, when I first saw a word breathed about a root change, I hopped on Tecmos in HS east and tashed a level 51 mob and fettered it... and fetter lasted the entire 3-minute duration for 2 roots in a row so I figured there must not have been a significant change (prior to the patch a tashed level 51 would basically NEVER break a root from a level 60 PC except from direct spell damage).

[Tecmos Deception]

Inc log of my level 50 necro casting on a level 30ish mob in TT just now:

[Thu Jun 26 08:12:11 2014] You forget Invoke Death.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:12 2014] spectral footman scowls at you, ready to attack -- You would probably win this fight..it's not certain though.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:15 2014] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:17 2014] Your spell is interrupted.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:24 2014] Beginning to memorize Lifetap...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:25 2014] You have finished memorizing Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:29 2014] spectral footman scowls at you, ready to attack -- You would probably win this fight..it's not certain though.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:31 2014] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:31 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:31 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:33 2014] Spectral footman's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:36 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:36 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:36 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:36 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:37 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:37 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:37 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:37 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:41 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:41 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:41 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:41 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:42 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:42 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:42 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:42 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:43 2014] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:43 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:43 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:44 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:44 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:44 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:44 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:44 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:45 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:45 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:45 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:46 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:46 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:46 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:46 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:49 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:49 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:49 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:49 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:51 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:51 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:51 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:51 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:53 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:53 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:53 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:53 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:54 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:54 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:55 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:55 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:55 2014] Your Paralyzing Earth spell has worn off.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:55 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:55 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:56 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:56 2014] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:57 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:57 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:57 2014] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Thu Jun 26 08:12:59 2014] Spectral footman's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:03 2014] Your feet feel quick.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:05 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:05 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:05 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:05 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:06 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:06 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:06 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:06 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:08 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:08 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:08 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:09 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:09 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:09 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:09 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:11 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:11 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:11 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:11 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:13 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:13 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:13 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:14 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:14 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:14 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:15 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:15 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:15 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:15 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:15 2014] You have become better at Alteration! (213)
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:17 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:17 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:17 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:17 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:18 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:18 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:18 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:18 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:19 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:19 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:19 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:19 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:22 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:24 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:24 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:24 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:24 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:27 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:28 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:28 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:28 2014] Your Paralyzing Earth spell has worn off.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:28 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:28 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:29 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:29 2014] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:29 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:30 2014] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:30 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:32 2014] Spectral footman's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:32 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:32 2014] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:33 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:33 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:33 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:34 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:34 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:34 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:34 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:36 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:36 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:36 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:37 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:37 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:37 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:37 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:38 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:38 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:38 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:38 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:41 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:41 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:41 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:41 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:43 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:43 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:43 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:43 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:45 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:45 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:45 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:46 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:46 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:47 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:47 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:47 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:47 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:50 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:50 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:50 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:50 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:52 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:52 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:52 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:52 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:54 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:54 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:54 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:54 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:55 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:56 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:56 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:56 2014] Your Paralyzing Earth spell has worn off.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:56 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:56 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:57 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:57 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:57 2014] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:58 2014] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:58 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:58 2014] Spectral footman hits YOU for 53 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:58 2014] Your spell is interrupted.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:58 2014] Spectral footman bashes YOU for 13 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:58 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:58 2014] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:58 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:58 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:59 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:13:59 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:01 2014] Spectral footman hits YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:01 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:01 2014] Spectral footman's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:03 2014] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:03 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:03 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:03 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:05 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:05 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:05 2014] Your Paralyzing Earth spell has worn off.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:05 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:05 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:05 2014] Spectral footman hits YOU for 70 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:05 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:06 2014] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:06 2014] Spectral footman bashes YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:06 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:06 2014] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:06 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:08 2014] Spectral footman hits YOU for 10 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:08 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:08 2014] Spectral footman's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:10 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:10 2014] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:10 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:12 2014] Solomancer beams a smile at spectral footman
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:12 2014] Solomancer says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:12 2014] Your Paralyzing Earth spell has worn off.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:12 2014] spectral footman was hit by non-melee for 5 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:12 2014] Spectral footman staggers.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:12 2014] Spectral footman hits YOU for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:12 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:13 2014] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:13 2014] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:13 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:13 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:14 2014] Your spell is interrupted.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:14 2014] Spectral footman bashes YOU for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:15 2014] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:15 2014] You can't use that command right now...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:15 2014] Spectral footman hits YOU for 70 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:15 2014] spectral footman says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:15 2014] You feel your lifeforce drain away. You have taken 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:15 2014] Spectral footman hits YOU for 47 points of damage.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:17 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:17 2014] Spectral footman's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:18 2014] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:19 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:19 2014] You begin casting Lifetap.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:19 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:20 2014] Your target resisted the Lifetap spell.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:22 2014] Taking a screenshot...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:25 2014] You begin casting Feign Death.
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:25 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:14:25 2014] You haven't recovered yet...


The 20th lifetap was a resist.

I had PE break 5 times, though I'm pretty sure none of them were "random" breaks but rather were all because of a DD spell landing. 5 PE breaks out of 20 lifetap casts seems appropriate if ANY direct damage is supposed to give an equal chance to break, but seems very high if the amount of damage being done is supposed to factor into the root break chance at all. I know it was only 20 casts, but like the level 30 necro said in the other thread, lifetap should literally never resist except on deep red cons.

[Tecmos Deception]

60 enc v level 50 mob:

[Thu Jun 26 08:26:35 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:37 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:40 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:42 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:44 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:46 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:48 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:49 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:51 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:53 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:54 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:56 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:58 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:26:59 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:01 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:03 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:05 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:08 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:10 2014] Your target resisted the Root spell.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:13 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:15 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:18 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:20 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:23 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:25 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:27 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:29 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:32 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:32 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:34 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:37 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:39 2014] Your target resisted the Root spell.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:41 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:43 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:46 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:48 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:51 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:53 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:56 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:27:58 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:00 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:02 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:05 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:07 2014] Your target resisted the Root spell.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:10 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:12 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:13 2014] Your Root spell has worn off.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:15 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:15 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:15 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:17 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:20 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:22 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:25 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:27 2014] Your target resisted the Root spell.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:29 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:31 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:34 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:36 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:38 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:40 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:43 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:43 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:45 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:48 2014] You begin casting Root.
[Thu Jun 26 08:28:50 2014] Iron Guardian's feet adhere to the ground.
...
[Thu Jun 26 08:29:07 2014] Your Root spell has worn off.


29 casts, 4 resists, 1 instant break, and the one time I cast a root without another one right after it, right there at the end, that root wore off early too. I didn't tash, and previous to the patch a level 50 WOULD resist some non-mez MR spells (or break root early without damage) without tash, so I'm not sure if I can make any statement based on this small sample.

[Daldaen]

All I gathered from this was that you LOVE to spam. "You haven't recovered yet..." X 100.

But really resists as far as mobs casting on you go, for green mobs, has been off for quite some time. Level 60s should basically be immune to level 1-35ish mobs casts. Level 35-45ish mobs should be pretty hit or miss and always partials when they hit. All of that is purely based off level differential, resists are sort of irrelevant at that point in time.

I had a root break 5-10s in on Peg Leg (level 15) yesterday. It was after I melee'd (no nuke)... So maybe it got messed up and counted a melee as a nuke and broke cause of that. Or maybe it's breaking early on mobs that shouldn't have a chance in hell at breaking early. Id need to test more.

[Tecmos Deception]

I do love to spam casting keys. Leftover from WoW raiding days I'm afraid. I even tried to stop being a spaz for the root spam and I still got those messages several times, lol :)

[Iumuno]

I do remember getting nuked a lot by green mobs back in 2000.

Also, root spells were breaking early a majority of the time, even on greens. A lot of people just kept using root instead of the higher versions because it would only last a few ticks anyway.

[zanderklocke]

I haven't tested on mobs past level 35, but I am now getting snare and dot resists on mobs level 35 and below. It seems like it's not super often (maybe 1 in 20-30 casts), but prior to the patch, I never ever got resists on mobs that were blue or green.

Not sure mobs 25 or more levels below should be able to resist my songs?

[Iumuno]

Classic EQ used to have a resist floor, which was a minimum resist % chance, regardless of level difference. So level 1 mobs could resist Ice comet.

This was removed later on but during Luclin in mid 2002.

[Daldaen]

Evidence?

[Hitpoint]

I haven't noticed any abnormalities on spells that I cast being resisted. Mobs vs me however, have always been able to land easily. Greens land nukes for full quite often. No idea if this is classic.

Are you sure that iron guardian isn't supposed to be resisting that much? Like how city guards are extra resistant. He is a guard pretty much.

Root has been broken on this server for a very long time. It was way too good. Those early breaks are far closer to classic than it was before the patch.

[tristantio]

As a level 57 necro fighting level 40/41 mobs (was light blue, now green con) I had a few Paralyzing Earth breaks as soon as the first server tick after the root landed occurred (with no dots or nukes on the mob).

As in, I opened with PE, and a regen tick happened and the PE fell off.

[Nirgon]

Gotta say I'm glad all this is getting adjusted.

Mezzes, charms and roots breaking and not lasting ridiculous periods = 8).

[Potus]

Resists are bugged, Lifetap line should not resist on green trash. I had this happen last night while farming Grachnist.

http://i.imgur.com/I5llJMK.jpg

[Scrubosaur]

Fix the resist rates on mobs please. Lifetaps should NOT be resisted by green trash mobs. Roots should not be breaking on green mobs not taking direct damage. Roots in general should be lasting full duration against normal mob much lower level than the player. The only exception would be named mobs or mobs with innately higher MR which was how it was working previously. It's painfully obvious that something was changed with resists when lifetaps are being resisted by green con mobs.

[Iumuno]

Evidence?

It's probably out there if you dig it... I won't because it's how it works currently and all I can say is that it feels classic, even if it's bad for my class (enchanter). I remember Aradune commenting on it back in the days about people complaining about greens resisting, saying that they didn't want guarantees in this game and that's why there was a minimum resist rate.

[Scoresby]

I'm 100% sure there has been a change to resist checks for some spells. Having rooted hundreds (if not thousands) of DB mobs as a l60 shaman with PE with 0 resists and full duration, I had a green con Kor Shaman in Lower Guk outright resist it yesterday. Not sure if classic or not, but definitely different than before the patch.

[derpcake]

Resists are bugged, Lifetap line should not resist on green trash. I had this happen last night while farming Grachnist.

http://i.imgur.com/I5llJMK.jpg

Can confirm, multiple lifetap resists vs droga mobs at lvl 55.

PE just broke on a lvl 35 mob in mistmoore, on the first tick.

Really needs looking in to.

[Daldaen]

Roots lasting full duration on blue+ con mobs wasn't classic. But on green mobs it shouldn't be breaking quickly at all. It should preform a resist check every tick and determine if it breaks that tick I believe.

I've never heard of a resist chance fail set at 5% for all mobs. Tradeskills had a 5% hardcoded fail for all combines that could fail... Never heard about it on spells though. A change like that needs some evidence though before I give it my classic stamp of approval.

[Iumuno]

Roots lasting full duration on blue+ con mobs wasn't classic. But on green mobs it shouldn't be breaking quickly at all. It should preform a resist check every tick and determine if it breaks that tick I believe.

I've never heard of a resist chance fail set at 5% for all mobs. Tradeskills had a 5% hardcoded fail for all combines that could fail... Never heard about it on spells though. A change like that needs some evidence though before I give it my classic stamp of approval.

Where's the 5% from?

[derpcake]

Gotta say I'm glad all this is getting adjusted.

Mezzes, charms and roots breaking and not lasting ridiculous periods = 8).

Mez never had a chance to break early through a resist.

Not for any class, not for any spell.

Basically stop trolling, being unhindered by knowledge of the topic, and being happy about adjustments that were made by accident, yea ..

[Daldaen]

Arbitrary number. The TS one is correct though.

You said there was a set % chance that was low for all spells to stick. I chose to represent that with 5%. I've never heard of that (any set % chance) referenced anywhere. And that shouldn't be the case until a bug report with evidence proves it classic.

[Nirgon]

Oh? Mez could never break early?

K

I remember screaming terror lasting various durations on mobs (usually very short) from necros.




And here's something along the lines of why I thought that:


Screaming Terror is now an all or nothing save. This should stop the
‘train’ problems that it was causing.



More (http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/soearchive/viewtopic.php?f=167&t=58877) on "I noticed mezzes are breaking early"


Found this in there too:

- Pets with less than 20 hit points cannot receive hit point buffs.


Didn't someone heroism their cleric hammer during cleric botb?

[Scrubosaur]

Paralyzing earth had a very slim chance of breaking in classic on dark blue mobs. I would sick for hours in Skyfire and root/rot mobs on my necro instead of fear kiting because root was much for mana efficient / effective than fear kiting due to resists. It break randomly / more often on even con and up mob though or certain named that were dark blue but seemed more MR. As far as this patch goes it looks like resists were set at a certain level for all /con mobs regardless of level, trash, or named.

[Nirgon]

Solo'ing mobs in seb on a wizard was way too easy here before. Still haven't had a chance to try it now. Every single root I casted pre-patch landed full duration, no problem. Trying to do this on live during this era was actually pretty risky even with epic.

[Iumuno]

Oh? Mez could never break early?

K

I remember screaming terror lasting various durations on mobs (usually very short) from necros.




And here's something along the lines of why I thought that:




More (http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/soearchive/viewtopic.php?f=167&t=58877) on "I noticed mezzes are breaking early"


Found this in there too:


Didn't someone heroism their cleric hammer during cleric botb?

Nah Mez never broke early, but the timing on the ticks could reduce duration by a few seconds. Screaming terror was particularly affected in that regard because it was such a short duration.

[John_Snu]

I've never heard of a resist chance fail set at 5% for all mobs.

Eh I have.

[Tecmos Deception]

Site you're looking at sounds like it probably has issues, Nirg. Cleric pet has more than 20 hp. Screaming terror has never behaved exactly like enchanter or bard mezzes. Someone randomly commenting that mezzes are breaking early, especially in the context of a short-duration mez like mesmerize or screaming terror, might just not have known about server-side ticks.

Saying that your 60 wiz never had a root break early on here means you were fighting a level 45 mob, just 1 level away from green. Before this patch, a level 50 would break on its own without damage without an MR debuff; you would also get initial resists. Start trying to root 52s or 53s as a 60 without tash AND malo and it will hardly hold for a few ticks if you're lucky and will have a lot of up-front resists ... about what a level 30 would experience if he were trying to root an un-debuffed mob that's level 26.

Aren't you supposed to be a champion of classic and research, not one of these "I THINK I MAYBE REMEMBER A MINOR DETAIL OF A GAME I PLAYED 15 YEARS AGO SO CHANGE IT PLOX!" people? The former probably wouldn't be mucking up a thread about admittedly unintentional changes and greens resisting lifetaps with off-topic and mostly-unsubstantiated claims.

[Nirgon]

I'm adding my "I remember this" to a thread instead of starting a new one saying "change this".

I see where you comin' from, but I'm truly just adding my 2cp into some bug threads.

When I really want something changed that hasn't been acknowledged, I make a thread about it.... probably bump it a lot too.

One thing is for sure, I took a wizard with epic at 60 and stomped my way all the way down to bridge area in seb here.

There is basically no way I woulda done that on live and I did solo in seb occasionally on live on my wizard. A fair amount of the time, I'd have to gate from a single mob. Here? Lol mash rend robe np was the case.

I'm not just trying to make shit harder here, although I do enjoy a challenge 8).

[Haynar]

Seb was hard at 60.

[Tecmos Deception]

Seb was hard at 60.

What kind of situation were you in doing seb at 60 15ish years ago, Haynar?

I'm trying to get at my (usual) argument that ALL of EQ was relatively more challenging for almost everyone (if not everyone everyone) back in the day than it is for the same players now. Even if you guys perfectly recreated resists and aggro ranges and AC mechanics and every other mechanic of the game, we still have people playing with fancy UIs and GTT and a decade+ of knowledge (and training, if you will) regarding how to get stuff done in EQ and the "every rogue an epic rogue" movement and such nowadays and stable, high-speed internet connections and etc etc etc.

How many people back in the day used clickies to refresh gems, out of all the players playing at the end of Kunark? How many people had the time to spend to learn how to solo or duo or trio most of the content in the game instead of just rolling in with a full group ... or joining a group that was already there since everything was always camped on those 3k primetime servers? How many rogues thought they were building a ninjatank who would avoid tons of attacks because they put 25 in agility at creation? OF COURSE seb was hard back then.

Even on p99 today, you'll see a solo enchanter die at NG, or entire groups trying to CR themselves after they somehow wiped back at chef. And the biggest zergs a p99 guild can throw down into myconid tunnels or tola/prot area can still get into trouble pretty easily.


I'm not trying to say that everything was correct before, just like Nirgon isn't trying to effect change based just on a couple memories. Just seems like tuning difficulty ... well I guess it's just another classic mechanics vs. classic experience thing. If you want to get closer to a classic experience then you will need to make resist rates and NPC damage and shit harsher than they were on live to make up for the perks players have fighting the environment today. Or if you want closer to classic mechanics, you need to be ok with players doing stuff day-in day-out on p99 that was basically unheard of on live. /shrug

[Potus]

Seb was hard at 60.

Apparently fighting green mobs at 60 is hard too, now?

Oh? Mez could never break early?

K

I remember screaming terror lasting various durations on mobs (usually very short) from necros.



No it had a fixed duration, you could time it perfectly and keep 2 mobs mezzed barring a resist. Never broke off early.

Also ST originally was a fear with mem wipe. It caused trains. Big time. They changed it to ghetto mez.

[Scrubosaur]

Seb was hard at 60.

Seb was NOT hard as a 60 necromancer. In fact, on P99 it is/was much more difficult for a necro due to pets being nerfed to crap (they used to be awesome back in the day). On live I could solo my way to the jail and solo the entire jail with EoT and roots. A lot less mobs saw invis in Seb than on P99 and resist rates worked a lot better if a mob was more than 5 levels below you.

With the new patch I am not saying that everything should land without resist if that mob is with in a few levels of the caster. But if you are significantly higher level than the mob you are casting on (5 level rule) the resist rate / break rate should be minimal. This should also be the case for npc caster mobs landing spells on players. If they are more than 5 levels below you there should be some adjustment to damage via partials or flat out resists. We already have to deal with NPC's having full spells books up to their level (on live npc's had 1 rank lower spells e.g. a 45 wizard npc had spells up to level 39).

[Nirgon]

Ya I readily concede the mez thing.

Upon consulting close pals from the era, it was that mez just didn't always land (does here) and the good ones had a longer recast.

I was asked also if tash has a rather high threat value here, because it did. Most times they said they'd try to mez then tash on raids. Sounds odd but worth mentioning since it came up in convo :).

[Tecmos Deception]

With 255 charisma and level 60, mez would (prepatch, dunno about now) literally never be resisted by anything below 50 (maybe even 50s also... can't remember for sure). 51s will resist pretty rarely, 52-53s occassionally, and once you're doing 54-55s you'll see 1 in 3 mezzes resist without MR debuff (and MR spells like roots/stuns will resist 1 in 3 even after a tash). Ballpark gut figures. Mez on p99 either has a resist mod built in or charisma helps to lower resists of mez spells or something.

Tash is high aggro here, though I don't think any/much higher than a slow or a cessation of cor or a lure of ice. I don't think I've ever seen any enchanter tash before mez in any situation on p99 (unless, like, you're able to tash at longer range then land a mez before you get nuked/meleed). At 60 if you have a nasty target, you rapture then tash+malo+slow then kill or transition to cheaper mezzes if possible, or just keep rapturing (or let the sham tank or whatever).


It's funny that you call the higher-level mezzes "the good ones." I never even mem mezzes except mesmerize, mesmerization, and occasionally rapture. There's nothing good about them, really. Unless you're a solo chanter trying to lock down half a dozen mobs that are spread out across a wide area (isle 5, for example ... though even there unless you're the only chanter and it's a small raid with a mediocre or worse puller, you STILL don't need to use longer single-target mezzes!), you're using a mez that casts slower, recasts slower, and costs the same mana per tick of mez as just using a lower mez, and takes up a spell slot that could be used for something more vital to avoiding death when stuff goes wrong.

[koros]

Apparently fighting green mobs at 60 is hard too, now?



No it had a fixed duration, you could time it perfectly and keep 2 mobs mezzed barring a resist. Never broke off early.

Also ST originally was a fear with mem wipe. It caused trains. Big time. They changed it to ghetto mez.

Exactly this.

[koros]

With 255 charisma and level 60, mez would (prepatch, dunno about now) literally never be resisted by anything below 50 (maybe even 50s also... can't remember for sure). 51s will resist pretty rarely, 52-53s occassionally, and once you're doing 54-55s you'll see 1 in 3 mezzes resist without MR debuff (and MR spells like roots/stuns will resist 1 in 3 even after a tash). Ballpark gut figures. Mez on p99 either has a resist mod built in or charisma helps to lower resists of mez spells or something.

Tash is high aggro here, though I don't think any/much higher than a slow or a cessation of cor or a lure of ice. I don't think I've ever seen any enchanter tash before mez in any situation on p99 (unless, like, you're able to tash at longer range then land a mez before you get nuked/meleed). At 60 if you have a nasty target, you rapture then tash+malo+slow then kill or transition to cheaper mezzes if possible, or just keep rapturing (or let the sham tank or whatever).


It's funny that you call the higher-level mezzes "the good ones." I never even mem mezzes except mesmerize, mesmerization, and occasionally rapture. There's nothing good about them, really. Unless you're a solo chanter trying to lock down half a dozen mobs that are spread out across a wide area (isle 5, for example ... though even there unless you're the only chanter and it's a small raid with a mediocre or worse puller, you STILL don't need to use longer single-target mezzes!), you're using a mez that casts slower, recasts slower, and costs the same mana per tick of mez as just using a lower mez, and takes up a spell slot that could be used for something more vital to avoiding death when stuff goes wrong.

Mezzes land(ed) too easily here. You shouldn't be getting many resists at 60 vs 51s/52s, but a level 54 enc should see a semi decent resist rate vs a 52/53. It's part of what made the higher duration mezzes worth it if you had to lock down 3 mobs. Too many resists when using a 24 second mez.

[koros]

Seb was NOT hard as a 60 necromancer. In fact, on P99 it is/was much more difficult for a necro due to pets being nerfed to crap (they used to be awesome back in the day). On live I could solo my way to the jail and solo the entire jail with EoT and roots. A lot less mobs saw invis in Seb than on P99 and resist rates worked a lot better if a mob was more than 5 levels below you.

With the new patch I am not saying that everything should land without resist if that mob is with in a few levels of the caster. But if you are significantly higher level than the mob you are casting on (5 level rule) the resist rate / break rate should be minimal. This should also be the case for npc caster mobs landing spells on players. If they are more than 5 levels below you there should be some adjustment to damage via partials or flat out resists. We already have to deal with NPC's having full spells books up to their level (on live npc's had 1 rank lower spells e.g. a 45 wizard npc had spells up to level 39).

EoT sucked on live too. If you were soloing to jail you were doing it with mostly dots. Pet would take a lot of damage from high 40s mobs. But Seb was not hard at 60. Hell, I could solo there as a 60 rogue during Luclin.

[Tecmos Deception]

Mezzes land(ed) too easily here. You shouldn't be getting many resists at 60 vs 51s/52s, but a level 54 enc should see a semi decent resist rate vs a 52/53.

When was the last time anyone who is reading this post saw a level 54 enchanter trying to CC ilis or reet frogs, golems in hole, HS south/east, etc? I'm pretty sure that 54 enchanter would have seen a lot of resists in those locations before the patch... not that anyone has done any of those things at 54 since the first weeks of Kunark :p

[koros]

When was the last time anyone who is reading this post saw a level 54 enchanter trying to CC ilis or reet frogs, golems in hole, HS south/east, etc? I'm pretty sure that 54 enchanter would have seen a lot of resists in those locations before the patch... not that anyone has done any of those things at 54 since the first weeks of Kunark :p

Fair enough. Resist rate on mez was ridiculously low tho.

[Tecmos Deception]

Resist rate on mez was ridiculously low tho.

What context are you talking about?

You made it sound like a 54 enchanter would be able to reliably mez level 52-53 mobs pre-tash before the patch... and that is just plain untrue. 53s resisted 60 enchanters at a fair clip; a 54 would have had a BOATLOAD of resists in places like HS east or the nasty parts of the hole. That's why you NEVER see chanters that low in those places.

I'm not arguing that CC couldn't use some intentional resist tweaks... but you're just making shit up or not understanding how things were working or something with the stuff you're saying.

[Bazia]

uh i grouped in seb all the time with encs and they did not have issues mezzing same level mobs and definitely not lower ones

[Ladytron]

screwball stuff going on and i cannot login to test myself as im suspended until further notice

[Tecmos Deception]

uh i grouped in seb all the time with encs and they did not have issues mezzing same level mobs and definitely not lower ones

There's a big difference between a level 45 enchanter CCing level 45 zol knights and level 54 enchanters mezzing level 53 illis knights. Furthermore, being able to fill a CC role in a group doesn't mean that there weren't still a lot of resists ... which is what we're talking about.

[koros]

What context are you talking about?

You made it sound like a 54 enchanter would be able to reliably mez level 52-53 mobs pre-tash before the patch... and that is just plain untrue. 53s resisted 60 enchanters at a fair clip; a 54 would have had a BOATLOAD of resists in places like HS east or the nasty parts of the hole. That's why you NEVER see chanters that low in those places.

I'm not arguing that CC couldn't use some intentional resist tweaks... but you're just making shit up or not understanding how things were working or something with the stuff you're saying.

I have a 40 enchanter. His mezzes get(got) resisted at a far lower rate than normal all or nothing spells. Perhaps resists are off for 51+ mobs. They didn't magically get a new resist modifier because they were over 50.

[Tecmos Deception]

I have a 40 enchanter. His mezzes get(got) resisted at a far lower rate than normal all or nothing spells. Perhaps resists are off for 51+ mobs. They didn't magically get a new resist modifier because they were over 50.

Like I said before, p99 mezzes seem to either have a built-in resist mod or charisma influences their resists similar to how it helps lulls/charms work better. It feels like casting a mez on an untashed mob is similar to casting a root/slow/stun on a tashed mob I guess. That's significant for sure, but I don't know about "far lower rate" or "ridiculously low" or "lol 54 enchanters can CC ilis frogs np np" or whatever.

And who said that 51+ mobs don't have a special resist mod? 51+ mobs "magically" started summoning. Almost ALL of the 51+ mobs were introduced with Kunark expansion. It doesn't seem very far fetched imo.

[Tasslehofp99]

off topic here, but seb on p99 is a lot harder than it was on live.


I solo'd the upper zone out for hours as a druid on live 58 to 60 and never once came across a summoning sebilite golem. On p99 it seems as if every sebilite golem summons, kind of irritating.

Anyway back on topic, something about green cons resisting dots and nukes from a 60 druid/sham seems wrong. Especially at the rate that its occurring, will post logs after work for reference.

[Scrubosaur]

You are preaching to the choir. Exit was always camped because the golem's didn't summon and were decent exp. I don't remember anything summoning until Disco, Bar and Crypt. If you look at the 2001 notes for the golem's it even says that a druid can solo upper seb and that a group of 50s can do exit golems.

[Potus]

Please bug report the Sebilis stuff in a new thread, because yeah that zone shouldn't be super difficult.

[Haynar]

Clearly it was not checked how often resists by greens were happening. And i see the value it was now. You all whine way too much over 1%. Thats it. 1% chance to resist. I adjusted it.

Blah.

H

[Scrubosaur]

Are you sure it wasn't higher than that? I spent a few hours killing green basilisks in RM and had quite a few resists on Deflux lifetaps. I mean yeah I know RNG is RNG but it felt like more than a 1% chance.

[Nirgon]

I hope these are the beginnings of a change I sense coming

[Tavrin]

Clearly it was not checked how often resists by greens were happening. And i see the value it was now. You all whine way too much over 1%. Thats it. 1% chance to resist. I adjusted it.

Blah.

H

Is this something that is adjusted pending the next patch, or is that something that is controlled server side?

[Erati]

Are you sure it wasn't higher than that? I spent a few hours killing green basilisks in RM and had quite a few resists on Deflux lifetaps. I mean yeah I know RNG is RNG but it felt like more than a 1% chance.

If i had a nickel for every Poker Hand I lost due to a 2 or 3 outer on the river.....

[Scrubosaur]

If i had a nickel for every Poker Hand I lost due to a 2 or 3 outer on the river.....

Based on your example that would be a 3%-4% chance; which is more in line with the resists rate :)

P.S. Don't slow play your hand; bet them out early unless you have the nuts.

[karsten]

going to just tag along on this thread and say that the resists are strangly different, and on my 54 chanter I have experienced, numerous times, tashing a green con mob and then having mezzes resist.

[karsten]

as an addition: with regular blue con mobs, i'm getting way more charm resists, charm breaks, root resists, etc, since the most recent patch. it takes a person playing an enchanter from "can probably solo" to "will die 90% of the time"

it ruins soloing. Whatever you guys did, it's ruined it.

[Potus]

as an addition: with regular blue con mobs, i'm getting way more charm resists, charm breaks, root resists, etc, since the most recent patch. it takes a person playing an enchanter from "can probably solo" to "will die 90% of the time"

it ruins soloing. Whatever you guys did, it's ruined it.

Yeah I am not enjoying mobs 5 levels lower than me chain-resisting shit. :(

[R Flair]

Resists were whacky here before this patch as I was noticing blue con mobs in sol a resisting 1-2 ice nukes almost every fight on my mid 30s wizard. As someone who mained a wizard for years on live, I know thats not how it worked on lower level mobs. Yellow/Red cons might resist a few nukes a fight, but not blue.

Now since this patch, its over the top. Fighting undead mobs @ in the 40s with my -50 resist mod undead nukes I'm getting resisted so often I'm running out of mana before mobs even come close to dying.. me having almost 200 wisdom.

Its way off. My horribly geared characters on live could solo yellow cons all the way up to the 40s but here its nearly impossible.

[Tewaz]

The yellow to blue con mob resists are off a bit, agreed, but the resists on green mobs is a bit ridiculous right now.

[Daldaen]

[Fri Jul 04 18:42:07 2014] a squallsurge seahorse regards you indifferently -- You would probably win this fight..it's not certain though.
[Fri Jul 04 18:42:08 2014] a soothebrine seahorse regards you indifferently -- You would probably win this fight..it's not certain though.
[Fri Jul 04 18:42:27 2014] a squallsurge seahorse begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Jul 04 18:42:29 2014] a soothebrine seahorse begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Jul 04 18:42:32 2014] You feel your skin combust. You have taken 529 points of damage.
[Fri Jul 04 18:42:35 2014] You have been struck by the wrath of the gods. You have taken 496 points of damage.


Green cons sticking for full damage two nukes. So very not classic. The green resists on spells and ability to stick spells on players 20+ levels higher is dumb right now :/.

[Potus]

Had another Lifetap resist today. This is ridiculous.

[Pullyn]

Had a green con kobold shaman pet resist 2 roots yesterday on my 54 cleric. Pretty retarded imo.

[Tecmos Deception]

Yes, yes, we all know this is very annoying. That's why Haynar quickly posted that he was looking into it, working on it, and fixing it.

Could you explain what the issue was though, Haynar? I mean, you were trying to make everyone look like drama queens over "1%" ... but this obviously wasn't a 1% end result or else it wouldn't have been noticed to quickly and by so many people. That's such a small difference that it should only have been noticable via parsing. How can a 1% error cause lifetaps to be resisted by greens without making a dark blue practically immune to normal spells?

Feel free to ignore me of course, just curious!

[derpcake]

If proof of resist rates is needed I can provide parses. Just let me know what desired nr of casts should be.

[Scrubosaur]

Vexing Mordinia resisted by a green trash frog (no buffs - killed after it spawned). Can we get a patch to this ASAP ? Blowing through half a mana bar due to a lifetap dd and lifetap dot resist = no bueno. Thanks.

[Haynar]

My change was 1% chance resist. Looks like some mob resists may have changed too.

Still going to leave in a min resist chance on spells, but will limit to ones without a (-)resist mod component.

H

[Scrubosaur]

My change was 1% chance resist. Looks like some mob resists may have changed too.

Still going to leave in a min resist chance on spells, but will limit to ones without a (-)resist mod component.

H

Thanks for the update. The sooner the better :)

[compulsion]

I am just going to guess that the level mod for resist checks has somehow been inverted so that the further the target is below the caster, the better chance of a resist. Soloing higher blue cons, I'm not having too much worse of a time, while clearing green trash has become a disaster. Died the other day to 4x 1-2 second root breaks(without any damage done) to a LB. Have had several 49 and 54 lifetaps resisted on sub level 5 frogloks in Innothule and not a single one on DB frogs in LGuk.

Same thing in HS. Rooting and camping my way past entry garbage I get regular root breaks in under 30 sec. Once inside I can count on full duration roots and few resists.

If the chance was a simple 1%, I should be seeing the exact opposite. I have killed hundreds of DB mobs in the last week and probably tapped no more than 10-20 moss snakes or pumas for quickie heals.

PS: Would also like to add that for the first time in 2+ years, I am being ghoul rooted regularly at 115-125 MR. Pre Kunark on red I could solo lguk all day with no problems with barely over 100 MR. Going to go see how often my 50+ chars get blinded by level 3 lizardman mystics in the Feerrott.

[BlkCamel]

My change was 1% chance resist. Looks like some mob resists may have changed too.

Still going to leave in a min resist chance on spells, but will limit to ones without a (-)resist mod component.

H

How does this effect roots like Paralyzing Earth which have a 3 minute duration. I am willing to accept breaks on root even if I didn't remember Malo'd mobs not having max duration for spells like Paralyzing Earth. But currently it breaks too often, even on green con mobs. I have had to re-root the same mob 5 times in a normal duration. Other mobs just fine this 1 mob constant breaks(talking bears in perma pits) even when I cast Malosinia or other debuff on it(and I am talking green con, its not once in a blue moon its every set of bears i try to quad), doesn't seem to matter. Chance to break on tick appears to need tweaking as well.

Glad to hear about above change though, should help with Malo, and Shaman epic being resisted when they have -neg resist mods and should be nearly un-resistable.:D

[Lisset]

I actually got a resist of Theft of Thought on a lich in Hate. First time anything but a high MR mob has resisted ToT.

[Bruno]

Vexing Mordinia resisted by a green trash frog (no buffs - killed after it spawned). Can we get a patch to this ASAP ? Blowing through half a mana bar due to a lifetap dd and lifetap dot resist = no bueno. Thanks.

Same thing is happening to me as well. Green mob life tap resists as well.

[Potus]

Just had 2 more lifetap resists on lowbie blues and greens.

You need to patch the server immediately.

[evilkorn]

I didn't remember Malo'd mobs not having max duration for spells like Paralyzing Earth

This. Guides about shaman root rotting tell you to debuff for full root duration. But that's mainly for exping but I doubt it should be needed for greens. Something about greens (level 34) breaking root in one tick on a level 60 doesn't feel like it should be.

[Wed Jul 09 12:42:09 2014] You begin casting Immobilize.
[Wed Jul 09 12:42:11 2014] Gornit's feet adhere to the ground.
[Wed Jul 09 12:42:17 2014] Your Immobilize spell has worn off.

[Deacon]

My 35 bard is getting upwards of 60-70% resists on mezzes in Crushbone, before the patch this was like a 95% success rate.

[zanderklocke]

My 35 bard is getting upwards of 60-70% resists on mezzes in Crushbone, before the patch this was like a 95% success rate.

Are you using AoE mez? That will get less effective the higher level you get, essentially requiring the use of single target mez.

[kaev]

As far as rooting blue-cons I have to say that the way it is now feels far more early EQ-ish than it did before. It may be a bit chancier than it was on live, but if so it's not a lot different, it really does "feel" now as it did then. During Kunark era on live I would root FM giants at the fort while soloing my paladin so I could med/heal during fights, and sometimes I'd be desperately strafing towards the OT zoneline. Soloing blues in SK on my cleric twink felt much the same the other day.

But, based on my (no doubt horribly faulty) memory, I would say that greens and very low blues seem to resist/break a bit much. As far as tweaking, to fit my recollection, I'd suggest holding at the current even-con/high-blue resist rate while adjusting to make relative level a little more significant. As I recall it, when resistable spells were important to combat resolution, fighting a high-blue with low(-ish) mana was begging for bad things to happen (unless you were a necro, damned cheatin' overpowered necros and their snare+fear overlordship, lol), and sometimes you didnt' realize that "this" mob was high blue instead of low blue until you got a few resists and noticed it hitting a bit harder and "oh shit dammit...."

[Alunova]

I only played during classic and I don't remember root ever being reliable. I was constantly on edge for root breaks and used snares whenever possible. Played shaman/necro and never even heard of anyone being able to keep 6-8 blues rooted at once, debuffed or not.

I remember barely getting to max spell casting range before most roots broke and not using the higher level roots because they would break just as easily for more mana.

[Ambrotos]

I only played during classic and I don't remember root ever being reliable. I was constantly on edge for root breaks and used snares whenever possible. Played shaman/necro and never even heard of anyone being able to keep 6-8 blues rooted at once, debuffed or not.

I remember barely getting to max spell casting range before most roots broke and not using the higher level roots because they would break just as easily for more mana.


You're right. You could keep three rooted, once you rooted the 4th one one of the others broke and the mob would walk away if it was green con. Once you killed one of the three it would come back. Why? I have no clue.

I remember this while dicking around on live on my wizard. I was medding up at gfay spires and having a newbie train me with the bandits and a orc onto me. Was very odd thing so I always remembered it. I tried it on blues in hopes of figuring out a exploit, but wouldn't work.

And root always sucked. Anyone on live who played a caster will attest to this.

[Potus]

Root was dependent on the caster and mob's level. You could root lowbie dark blues fairly reliably with Enstill and Paralyzing Earth and trust them to last significantly longer than Root (this was based off my experience solo'ing indoors on a Necro in places like HS and Seb).

Shit that was even con and above you're right, it'd break after a handful of ticks. Just use regular root for those.

Green mobs should not be resisting roots and should have it last nearly full duration. Malo'ed mobs as well, because their MR is practically negative.

[Scrubosaur]

I only played during classic and I don't remember root ever being reliable. I was constantly on edge for root breaks and used snares whenever possible. Played shaman/necro and never even heard of anyone being able to keep 6-8 blues rooted at once, debuffed or not.

I remember barely getting to max spell casting range before most roots broke and not using the higher level roots because they would break just as easily for more mana.

Correct, if you were using root it was very unreliable. Root was mostly used if you were going to DD stuff down as the mana cost was low due, cast time was fast but it had a short duration and low spell level. Once you reached the level that you could use Paralyzing Earth it was easy going for classes that could root/rot. The mana cost was high and the cast time was long but the duration was significant. Early guides mention that Paralyzing Earth had a lower resist level vs blues and usually lasted full duration. Paralyzing Earth was also a main source of CC due to the lack of people that played enchanters back in the day.

[kaev]

Correct, if you were using root it was very unreliable. Root was mostly used if you were going to DD stuff down as the mana cost was low due, cast time was fast but it had a short duration and low spell level. Once you reached the level that you could use Paralyzing Earth it was easy going for classes that could root/rot. The mana cost was high and the cast time was long but the duration was significant. Early guides mention that Paralyzing Earth had a lower resist level vs blues and usually lasted full duration. Paralyzing Earth was also a main source of CC due to the lack of people that played enchanters back in the day.

Even back then I wondered whether the higher level roots actually had a resist mod, or if it was just a matter of larger blue-range due to higher caster level plus better game knowledge that had the casters using their spells more effectively, i.e. killing low blues that had weak resists because of the level differential.

[fullmetalcoxman]

Just had an orc centurion in EC resist malosini(lvl 58) casted by my 60 mage.

[kevoh]

posted some constructive information below to display some of the resist issues ive personally encountered. thank you for all of your hard work to ensure we get this fixed.

[kevoh]

http://i.imgur.com/80USMsx.png


this mob was a green con...

instant duration drops like 50% of the time, if it doesnt drop instantly then its resisted typically.

[kevoh]

partial resists. full resist. partial resists. then full hit finally. same mob.

http://i.imgur.com/6tLfeOp.png

this mob was a blue con. . . .

[Nirgon]

^ That should be possible

[Daldaen]

Possibly but EXTREMELY unlikely. That is more what you'd expect out of a red con fight at that level.

Casters weren't nearly this gimp in classic. In fairness, they weren't nearly as OP with 3min roots lasting full duration every time on every mob. They'd last full duration on low blues... But blues close and anything 60+ it was very hit or miss.

[kaev]

You are one of many players. The RNG here can be outrageously streaky. Somebody's gonna have those results. You won the prize. v0v

[Tasslehofp99]

Just had an orc centurion in EC resist malosini(lvl 58) casted by my 60 mage.

Not Classic.

[Haynar]

Not Classic.

And how many in classic era would be casting that crap on orcs in EC?

Seriously? WTF are you casting that there for? To prove something there is not data to refute?

How many times as a 60, did you have some dumb ass green ghoul root you?

I am thinking a 5% chance to resist spells sounds good.

H

[koros]

I always remember hearing that it was min 5% base chance to fizzle, resist a spell, or have one land (sans immunity from mob resist/level). I'd have to check for a source on that but I was under that impression since classic/kunark. I feel like aradune/abashi confirmed that % at some point.

[Tasslehofp99]

I spent tons of time PL'ing in unrest, befallen, paw, highkeep, sol A on live as a lvl 60 druid to make plat since very few farming groups really ever invited druids. Can say with almost 100% certainty that I've never had a green con resist snare/root (While PL'ing I snare every single mob twice to maintain agro over whoever I'm PL'ing, and then root with lvl 5 root when they flee) if they were true green cons that weren't specifically high MR mobs. By true greens I mean mobs that are 30-40 levels lower than me.

Something does not seem right with the way greens are landing spells on 60's/resisting spells from 60's since the last patch. I mean, an evil eye charming a lvl 60 with 270 MR seems very broken. Just seems off is all, from someone's perspective who's been playing since 1999 and spent lots of time fighting green cons to make plat on live.

As far as root breaking early/having a chance to break each tick, THAT is classic. Green cons landing full damage nukes/resisting spells with the frequency that they currently are doesn't feel very true to classic.

Not a dig at you or anyone else on dev staff Haynar, just my honest observations is all.

[fullmetalcoxman]

And how many in classic era would be casting that crap on orcs in EC?

Seriously? WTF are you casting that there for? To prove something there is not data to refute?

How many times as a 60, did you have some dumb ass green ghoul root you?

I am thinking a 5% chance to resist spells sounds good.

H
The scenario was that I already had malosini mem'd and, being too lazy to switch to a lower level debuff, was using the spell to pull one of the orc camps for some low level player. Not trying to prove or disprove anything. It seemed odd to me, so I chimed in.

If you guys say there should be a chance for a mob to resist a spell no matter the level of the mob or player, then I guess I'll believe you. In this particular instance, it definitely struck me as strange because I've never seen anything like that on p99 before.

I guess I always assumed that resist likelihood was scaled somehow based on mob level, spell level, and player level.

[kevoh]

I am thinking a 5% chance to resist spells sounds good.

H

Sarcasm I hope? Because quad kiting is a nightmare right now. I remember getting an occasional resist here and there on Bonds back in the day on my wizard. But going through 50% mana just trying to get all 4 snared at once? No. Never. :(

[koros]

Sarcasm I hope? Because quad kiting is a nightmare right now. I remember getting an occasional resist here and there on Bonds back in the day on my wizard. But going through 50% mana just trying to get all 4 snared at once? No. Never. :(

.95^4 = 0.81450625

That's not why you're having issues.

[kaev]

.95^4 = 0.81450625

That's not why you're having issues.

Actually, with the RNG here I can believe he could have a run that bad with resists. I've had better streaks than that of success on low odds crafting combines, and failure on trivial combines. Had solo fights with my warrior where I beat the mob down steadily to ~50% with my war still at 80%+ and then had to flee at 25% health with the mob still at 40%, and similar reversals in my favor. Crazy luck, good and bad, happens here.

On Topic: I wish there was solid evidence as to where the minimum resist chance should be. I don't believe the minimum for full resist was as high as 5%, at least not in Kunark era when I started playing a couple caster alts. 1 in 20 seems too often for the reactions I remember having and seeing when a low green resisted a spell. It seems to me that 1 in 50 (2%) would be closer to the way it felt then, but all I have to go by are hazy memories. I never parsed this nor do I recall reading of anybody who did.

[Scrubosaur]

So it is going to be a flat 5% for mobs to resist spells + mob resists vs spell + level resist vs npc + partial resist = gg casters. And according to Haynar we never ran around killing lowbie greens so we can't know how resist rates worked..... I guess no one ever farmed silks or skins/hides at max level in classic Everquest.

[Velerin]

Sometimes I think the focus seems to be more on making the game more diffciult rather than more classic. The games a lot easier now because its 15 years old and all us nerds understand all the dynamics 100 fold.
Gotta be careful on statements like "I know it was so much harder to root rot mob XYZ back in classic" (when you were 12 years old, first ever mmo, and didn't have 1000 guides telling you exactly what to do).

[Scrubosaur]

Sometimes I think the focus seems to be more on making the game more diffciult rather than more classic. The games a lot easier now because its 15 years old and all us nerds understand all the dynamics 100 fold.
Gotta be careful on statements like "I know it was so much harder to root rot mob XYZ back in classic" (when you were 12 years old, first ever mmo, and didn't have 1000 guides telling you exactly what to do).

This ^ - Even with the root mechanics and spell mechanics before patch I managed to kill myself all the damn time. This game is more difficult than 99% of the MMO's out there. There is no reason to make it more difficult for the sake of "I remember" so it must be because there is no data showing otherwise.

[Priceline]

Chiming in with more anecdotal evidence...

"back in my day" pre-velious I precisely remember killing crocs in oasis on my DE Wizard. Deployed the root/nuke tactic, which was effective mostly. Root would break often because I was nuking obviously but I never got root resists on blue targets, only the occasional partial nuke.

in contrast here on my lowbie Human Wizard I'd be lucky if 1 in 4 nukes was for full damage.

[Scrubosaur]

Was playing on my rogue in a group with a 42 enchanter. The enchanter was CHA geared and was unable to keep a low blue Haze golem charmed for more than a minute or two at a time. Keep in mind that the golem had shaman and enchanter MR debuffed. When charm broke he was also unable to get a root to stick. It appears as if spells that have a per tick MR check are also really broken atm. I'm not really sure how CHA affected enchanter charm in classic ,but I thought it helped charms last for a longer duration, I am not sure if that is the case on p99.

[blondeattk]

this is messed up.

I got resists off dark blues but could land spells for FULL damage on yellow cons

thats not right. Useful bug to help me lvl faster, thanks for the exploit good job )

[Tasslehofp99]

Just had a green con Spectral Curate in Karnors resist winged death which is supposed to have a -100 MR check, lol.

[Sulfurian]

http://imgur.com/KsOVkX2

I love recasting charm 5 times in a fight with 219 cha.

[Potus]

Resists are simply absurd, don't play this game while Developers continue to ignore it.

[kaev]

Having every individual who has an anomalous result run to the forums to post it makes it seem like there's an issue when there is not. Sometimes things are going to go badly for some of us, the only way to avoid that would be if nothing could fail, which would be about as :notclassic: as you could get.

If it was 1/10th as bad as people are trying oh so hard to paint it my druid would've died half-a-dozen times root-rotting blues in the last fwe days. Amazingly, because I always kept a mana buffer and had a workable escape route for when multiple resists happen... you know, just the way we had to play back in the day ... he didn't die once.

This is much more similar to the way the game played back in the day than it was before the patch. Root & charm especially were way the hell too effective here. It's better now.

[Haynar]

It was 1:100. I coded to change to 1:200, when spell doesnt have (-) resist check. So coming soon.

I ran many tests and resists were rare. And everyone who saw a resist has run here whining.

[karsten]

as feedback:

it was screwy a few weeks ago when everyone was posting, it *seemed* like it got made better, but since the last time the server was down it's been back to bad.

Again: right now, charm breaks are so bad that it's the difference between "might die if you're not careful" and "probably going to die every time you charm something"

[karsten]

as further feedback:

i'm getting mez resists on high green/low blue cons AFTER HAVING TASHED THEM

hopefully this is helpful

[Haynar]

Interesting idea. Dump the always a chance to resist if stats are debuffed. Will look at that.

My goal this week is to get doors coded into LoS code. So wish me luck. Will do some resist tweaks first maybe.

H

[karsten]

I'll give some more feedback, if it's helpful:

with tash and 233cha:

two weeks ago when you got a bunch of "wtf is going on posts" the charm break rate went way up, for some reason. Something was done, and it went back to normal.

The exact, EXACT same thing is going on now. it's so bad that it's not worth charming anything now. My suspicion is that the server downtime reverted it in some way, but you guys might have other stuff going on.

My hope is that you guys are able to recognize that whatever tweaks you did massively messed up the resist/charm break rate.

hopefully this info is helpful!

[Babayaaga]

You're right. You could keep three rooted, once you rooted the 4th one one of the others broke and the mob would walk away if it was green con. Once you killed one of the three it would come back. Why? I have no clue.

I remember this while dicking around on live on my wizard. I was medding up at gfay spires and having a newbie train me with the bandits and a orc onto me. Was very odd thing so I always remembered it. I tried it on blues in hopes of figuring out a exploit, but wouldn't work.

And root always sucked. Anyone on live who played a caster will attest to this.

It's why chanters always mezzed instead of rooting, including non-casters. Predictable duration.

For the record, charming was never something we considered doing solo for xp until Dire Charm came along. There was a reason for this. I admit this "adjustment" would really tick a lot of P99 chanters off because *this* is what they're used to, but it wasn't like this on live, where I played a chanter from 99-03.

[karsten]

some more feedback after talking with other enchanters on the server about how the resist fiddling has affected charm:

"it's insanely bad"
"fucking terrible"
and
"I stopped soloing. Way too dangerous"

this is my experience as well, and it is also with the backdrop of having played an enchanter on live between 1998 and 2003 -- whatever you guys tweaked has resulted in a massive nerf: again, it's the difference between "might die if not careful" and "probably going to die every time"

[Tecmos Deception]

For the record, charming was never something we considered doing solo for xp until Dire Charm came along.

Speak for yourself. I charmed for XP during Kunark and Velious, and I was fucking terrible back then (plus 56k, parents picking up the phone on me, playing at 5 am before I had to go to school, etc).

Yeah, it was a lot safer with a duo, and yeah, p99 charm was almost certainly more powerful than it was on live. But if you didn't charm solo on live until dire charm, it's cause YOU were bad, not because live charm was bad.

[Crom]

Sometimes you just want to cry:
It's bad when low lev resist my lev 56 root spell but even my epic snare ?
it s a snare that basicly should land on anything that isn't 100% MR.

[Wed Jul 30 13:09:56 2014] Your Nature Walkers Scimitar begins to glow.
[Wed Jul 30 13:10:05 2014] Your target resisted the Wrath of Nature spell.
[Wed Jul 30 13:10:05 2014] a desert madman says, 'Damn my eyes! You're just another mirage!'
[Wed Jul 30 13:10:06 2014] A desert madman tries to hit YOU, but misses!

[Wed Jul 30 13:35:52 2014] You begin casting Engorging Roots.
[Wed Jul 30 13:35:54 2014] a desert madman is to the left.
[Wed Jul 30 13:35:54 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Wed Jul 30 13:35:54 2014] Your target resisted the Engorging Roots spell.
[Wed Jul 30 13:35:54 2014] a desert madman says, 'Damn my eyes! You're just another mirage!'
[Wed Jul 30 13:35:56 2014] a desert madman is straight ahead.
[Wed Jul 30 13:35:56 2014] a desert madman begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Jul 30 13:35:58 2014] a desert madman is straight ahead.
[Wed Jul 30 13:35:58 2014] Your skin freezes over. You have taken 3 points of

[BlkCamel]

Interesting idea. Dump the always a chance to resist if stats are debuffed. Will look at that.

My goal this week is to get doors coded into LoS code. So wish me luck. Will do some resist tweaks first maybe.

H

I love you.

[Daldaen]

Eh that would just unfairly favor enchanters and shamans. They really don't need any help.

If this is indeed a classic mechanic it should stay as is. Spells that are near unresistable (lifetaps, lures, swarm DoTs and the like) should have the chance removed. The overall chance could be lowered too I guess. I'm still waiting for one of these fabled "snake resists ice comet" screenshots though. Cause I really don't recall this being a classic mechanic.

[Haynar]

So overall, I don't like the way min resist chance has been working out. However, it is what is causing root to break early and charm to break early.

So with respect to charm and root, in the current iteration of the code, are they breaking too often? Or not often enough?

So I am trying to adjust charm breaks and root breaks now.

H

[Daldaen]

As a level 60, pre-patch, root almost never broke early on mobs 1-50. Mobs 50+ it would be a bit more dependant on magic resist. Stuff like fire giants and ice giants which are somewhat MR would break randomly around 30-60s or last full duration from my experience. Stuff in like the crypt or basement of sebilis would randomly break root as I would expect.

Charm again 1-50 would generally last full duration, though some of the high green (old light blue) and mid-high 40s (blues) would break randomly throughout their duration. I haven't charmed many 50+ animals since there aren't many in Kunark, but I feel like charms are pretty accurate, from a level 60 standpoint.

Post patch, the thing that bothers me the most is seeing level 1-40 mobs resist my roots outright. I don't recall that nor have I seen evidence that supports the global X% resist chance regardless of level. The funny thing is that I don't think I've seen many level 40-50 mobs resist my roots. But 1-40s I have seen a few times. Perhaps its just those ones that I am noticing and thinking "damn thats dumb".

Haven't seen too many early breaks on my druid roots recently, atleast that isn't something that's bothered me as much as initial resists on roots and such.

[Treats]

So overall, I don't like the way min resist chance has been working out. However, it is what is causing root to break early and charm to break early.

So with respect to charm and root, in the current iteration of the code, are they breaking too often? Or not often enough?

So I am trying to adjust charm breaks and root breaks now.

H

They should have a decent chance to break early though depending on level difference ;/

Debuffing something should only give an additional chance to not resist if the Target's resistance falls below 0.

Enchanters complaining about dying while charm soloing -- Seems classic to me.

Would only lower the Min Resist chance, it's at 5% now?

[Haynar]

Currently its doing 1% min chance to break charm per tick. Was thinking of scaling at 1% for even con down to 0% at mob level/4. So at 0 its based on cha and resists.

H

[Erati]

Currently its doing 1% min chance to break charm per tick. Was thinking of scaling at 1% for even con down to 0% at mob level/4. So at 0 its based on cha and resists.

H

so even when things are debuffed now ( current version we are using ) , the 1% always stands at 1%?

that would explain why so many complaints from shamans/enchanters about debuffed mobs

[Haynar]

so even when things are debuffed now ( current version we are using ) , the 1% always stands at 1%?

that would explain why so many complaints from shamans/enchanters about debuffed mobs
Yes. And you gave me a brilliant idea on how to add the debuff component to try and fix.

Hard to fix root/charm without breaking something else.

H

[BlkCamel]

so even when things are debuffed now ( current version we are using ) , the 1% always stands at 1%?

that would explain why so many complaints from shamans/enchanters about debuffed mobs

I agree this is a major issue with how things are now, I literally notice no difference when de-buffing beyond initial resist rate. De-buffing mob should lower the chance of roots/charms breaking. I am not against having some chance to break even while de-buffed but it should be a fraction of what it is today.

Fighting multiple LB(now green)/lowest blues and I am having major issues keeping multiples rooted. Just too many 1/2/3 tick breaks. It really makes the later roots pointless; slower cast, higher mana, no real benefit of longer duration because you can no longer rely on even getting more then 1 tick out of it, were back to root spamming with enstill.:D

P.S. I know Haynar is working on this though, and I trust he will get it right.

Yes. And you gave me a brilliant idea on how to add the debuff component to try and fix.

Hard to fix root/charm without breaking something else.

H

It was 1:100. I coded to change to 1:200, when spell doesnt have (-) resist check. So coming soon.

I ran many tests and resists were rare. And everyone who saw a resist has run here whining.

[Treats]

Currently its doing 1% min chance to break charm per tick. Was thinking of scaling at 1% for even con down to 0% at mob level/4. So at 0 its based on cha and resists.

H

I don't understand ;/

The duration of Root/Charm should be set when the initial spell is cast on the NPC.

It shouldn't calculate a break on each tic.

With my previous post I don't think I was very clear with the Debuff additional chance.

If you debuff something resist still will scale -- Like NPC 30 MR, 30% to resist -- NPC 20 MR, 20% to resist

If NPC resist falls below 0 should get additional to not resist I think

Like NPC 0 MR -- 2% to resist or something depending on level difference

[Nirgon]

Currently its doing 1% min chance to break charm per tick. Was thinking of scaling at 1% for even con down to 0% at mob level/4. So at 0 its based on cha and resists.

H

Keep in mind we didn't see charming like this during live until dire charm became prevalent.

It is WAY too reliable and ez mode here, like almost to the point every charm is a dire charm. Coupled with nearly guaranteed channeling in my experience, its just a little too WAY OP (and not classic btw, get yo game face on -> sig).

[Erati]

Keep in mind we didn't see charming like this during live until dire charm became prevalent.

It is WAY too reliable and ez mode here, like almost to the point every charm is a dire charm. Coupled with nearly guaranteed channeling in my experience, its just a little too WAY OP (and not classic btw, get yo game face on -> sig).

id argue that some enchanters make it 'seem' too easy bc they are always well prepared for a charm break with the proper stuns, quick mes, bedlam/rune, root nets, etc etc etc etc

back in the day people just tossed a charm on things and thought it was 'cool' then went about their group or whatever pretty casually

but now getting off topic

pras Haynar, hopefully his adjustments will be more in line with classic mechanics for resists etc

[Daldaen]

Do you even charm lol?

I have a 60 Druid and 34 enchanter. If I try to channel a charm on enchanter without stunning or mezzing, it's a solid 60-80% chance I don't channel if I'm standing not against a wall. This is for non-hasted, non-weaponized mobs. For those, forget about channeling.

Charms break just fine on mobs that are blue-red cons. Red cons are a total crapshoot and break very early very often. Mobs yellow-high blue will break pretty regularly. Low blues stick for awhile, and are pretty reliable to last full duration if you tash and/or Malo them.

Green cons should stay charmed full duration basically every time. Even still I had a high green break on my 60 Druid after 12 seconds yesterday... If anything those should not be breaking much at all and certainly not that quickly.

This is all pretty classic. Charming mobs 5-10~ levels lower than you and they are pretty damn reliable. If they are close to your level they break more often. It works like this now.

[Haynar]

I will make charming greens work better. I am working on this.

H

[Nirgon]

Do you even charm lol?

I have a 60 Druid and 34 enchanter. If I try to channel a charm on enchanter without stunning or mezzing, it's a solid 60-80% chance I don't channel if I'm standing not against a wall. This is for non-hasted, non-weaponized mobs. For those, forget about channeling.

Charms break just fine on mobs that are blue-red cons. Red cons are a total crapshoot and break very early very often. Mobs yellow-high blue will break pretty regularly. Low blues stick for awhile, and are pretty reliable to last full duration if you tash and/or Malo them.

Green cons should stay charmed full duration basically every time. Even still I had a high green break on my 60 Druid after 12 seconds yesterday... If anything those should not be breaking much at all and certainly not that quickly.

This is all pretty classic. Charming mobs 5-10~ levels lower than you and they are pretty damn reliable. If they are close to your level they break more often. It works like this now.

Ya and charming a dark blue at lvl 60 (even in plane of fear for instance) is np. We would roll like 3 druids charming monkeys in fear on red farming. That is in no way, shape or form a recreation of the classic experience. These were lvl 50 druids too. That charm should have resisted basically every time and never lasted more than 30 seconds (they were tashed, big f'in deal).

[Haynar]

Charming on raids should be last ditch effort to get extra dps. If charming on raids is common, then charm is broke.

H

[Daldaen]

Charming on raids is mentioned in several classic fear and hate guides. Atleast for Druids it is.

With Tashan and Malo it was reliable especially during Kunark once the mobs were all blue by 8-10 levels.

Classic Fear Guide (http://www.angelfire.com/games/EciRaids/PoFFaQ.html)

Druids and Shamans

Druids are essential for the raiding party. They can charm animal mobs that enter the camp without invitation, turning a foe into a nice level 50 pet. Shamans can Togor mobs and drastically reduce the amount of damage dealt by them, as well as Malosi them to allow the casters to work more effectively.

Necromancers

Necros perform a dual role in a break. First of all, the break involves having some key positions occupied by characters that are feigned; Second, necros can charm the undead mobs that enter the camp without warning, again turning a foe into a very nice pet.

Enchanters

Enchaters are the king of the debuffs, and this just may tip the scales in your favor, allowing you to eliminate a few mobs. They can also mezmerize mobs that enter the camp that cannot be charmed by either necros or druids (i.e. Scarelings and Amys). Clarity may also make the difference by allowing that one extra blast, or that one extra heal. Some battles last upwards of 10 minutes, and clarity is very effective in these circumstances.

50s charming fear should have a tough time holding it. Once you out level them a bit it becomes much easier, as is intended and as is classic.

[Haynar]

Charming on raids is mentioned in several classic fear and hate guides. Atleast for Druids it is.

With Tashan and Malo it was reliable especially during Kunark once the mobs were all blue by 8-10 levels.
Yes, with tash and malo. But without?

H

[Nirgon]

Charming on raids should be last ditch effort to get extra dps. If charming on raids is common, then charm is broke.

H

Drop a tash on a "lower con" shiver back. Charm with 50 druid a few times.

Tell me dat's working right.

Lots of personal gain will be lost with this change, so frankly I can't wait to see the people that come to defend the results of the charming plane of fear with druid charm 8].

TBH back in vanilla/Kunark I'm pretty sure you might have gotten kicked off most raids for trying to charm the mobs there.

Charming greens? K. Charming dark blues with notably high resists reliably for most of the spell's duration? Um no.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Do you even charm lol?

I have a 60 Druid and 34 enchanter. If I try to channel a charm on enchanter without stunning or mezzing, it's a solid 60-80% chance I don't channel if I'm standing not against a wall. This is for non-hasted, non-weaponized mobs. For those, forget about channeling.

Charms break just fine on mobs that are blue-red cons. Red cons are a total crapshoot and break very early very often. Mobs yellow-high blue will break pretty regularly. Low blues stick for awhile, and are pretty reliable to last full duration if you tash and/or Malo them.

Green cons should stay charmed full duration basically every time. Even still I had a high green break on my 60 Druid after 12 seconds yesterday... If anything those should not be breaking much at all and certainly not that quickly.

This is all pretty classic. Charming mobs 5-10~ levels lower than you and they are pretty damn reliable. If they are close to your level they break more often. It works like this now.

Basically this. Would like to reiterate that I often fail to channel through a non-hasted non-d/w pet while soloing. This is just to get a stun off let alone a full charm.

As Eratani pointed out people are just ready for a charm break now. Preparation is everything. I know that on my 56 enchanter my hand is hovering over my aoe stun hot key ALL the time and I'm ready for the usual stun-mezz-tash-charm combo.

[Nirgon]

Oh people 13 years ago playing EQ were ready for charms to break.

Basically every 6 seconds.

[Daldaen]

Without meh. As a 60 Druid I have shiverback last decent durations. Rarely does it last full duration. Rarely does it break in first few ticks. I'd say 2-3 min is normal for a charm. This is with Glamour (-10 MR Druid tash) and level 60.

If you want I can pull logs... Will be tough to remember what I got tashed or malo'd though.

[Daldaen]

[Tue Aug 05 19:51:30 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 19:57:17 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 5min 47sec
[Tue Aug 05 19:57:33 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 19:58:17 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 0min 44sec
[Tue Aug 05 19:58:26 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:07:36 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 9min 10sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:07:53 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:11:42 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 3min 49sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:11:56 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:16:18 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 4min 22sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:16:36 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:17:13 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 5min 47sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:17:28 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:19:43 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 2min 15sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:19:55 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:22:43 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 2min 48sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:22:55 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:29:07 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 6min 12sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:29:27 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:36:08 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 6min 41sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:36:31 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:42:36 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 6min 5sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:43:54 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:50:21 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 6min 27sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:50:43 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:51:03 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 0min 20sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:51:20 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:51:27 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 0min 7sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:51:44 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:52:51 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 1min 7sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:53:15 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:57:39 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 4min 24sec

These are all the values on a mob 11-12 levels lower than myself, not particularly MR and usually debuffed with -10MR, occasionally he had malo from random maloing mobs.

Average charm was about 4min 7s~

If this mob were several levels higher (52-53) that average drops down hugely down to 1-2min, maybe even worse. I'd have to pull up my logs from charming dire wolves in Kael to be sure.

Charm is working pretty close to classic.

[Man0warr]

Yeah charming stuff in Fear/Hate was dicey when the level cap was 50, because level difference makes the most difference in charm breaking. Now that we are 60, those mobs are 10-13 levels lower than the person charming.

[pasi]

Nirgon, the reason charm is more prolific over here than live (like many of unclassic behaviors on this server) is far more due to other factors than difference in game mechanics.

1) Stable Connection, both in terms of lag and disconnects. Self explanatory.

2) Technique for breaks not being common knowledge.

3) Levels. The vast majority of even the hardcore players in their server's #1 raid guilds weren't 60 until Mid-Late Velious. 55+ were fine in any zone. Kunark was mostly designed to get to 60, it was not designed for level 60 play. As such, the content (and prior content such as the Planes) is laughably easy to a group of 60s. The majority of the stuff that 60 enchanters are charming over here is level 45-50. 10-15 levels on a target will allow for a 5 minute or so average charm.


4) Complete knowledge of zones, accompanying npcs, and general lack of fear of CR. In my opinion, this is probably the biggest reason. I have 0 fear of death on Project 1999. Exp doesn't matter and I know there is no zone that I cannot CR myself out of with relative ease. Come Velious, you can drag my corpse to under Lady Nevedaria's belly on a full spawn - it won't matter to me, I'll fish it out.

In addition to the above, I don't believe players realized how powerful charm was until dire charm, but that is more of an opinion of mine.

The best resource that we have on charm during this era is Xornn's guide thats been posted before.

[Erati]

Dald, Glamour is -20 RM

[Daldaen]

Huh for some reason 10 stuck in my head, I thought it was crappier than it really is!

But still... Charm durations on planar trash works just fine for a level 60. I don't have a 50 to test it on though.

[Nirgon]

Nirgon, the reason charm is more prolific over here than live (like many of unclassic behaviors on this server) is far more due to other factors than difference in game mechanics.

1) Stable Connection, both in terms of lag and disconnects. Self explanatory.

2) Technique for breaks not being common knowledge.

3) Levels. The vast majority of even the hardcore players in their server's #1 raid guilds weren't 60 until Mid-Late Velious. 55+ were fine in any zone. Kunark was mostly designed to get to 60, it was not designed for level 60 play. As such, the content (and prior content such as the Planes) is laughably easy to a group of 60s. The majority of the stuff that 60 enchanters are charming over here is level 45-50. 10-15 levels on a target will allow for a 5 minute or so average charm.


4) Complete knowledge of zones, accompanying npcs, and general lack of fear of CR. In my opinion, this is probably the biggest reason. I have 0 fear of death on Project 1999. Exp doesn't matter and I know there is no zone that I cannot CR myself out of with relative ease. Come Velious, you can drag my corpse to under Lady Nevedaria's belly on a full spawn - it won't matter to me, I'll fish it out.

In addition to the above, I don't believe players realized how powerful charm was until dire charm, but that is more of an opinion of mine.

The best resource that we have on charm during this era is Xornn's guide thats been posted before.

Not buying any of this. What else you got?

I'm just still standing over here... ya know with the lvl 50 druids charming shiverbacks (ya the lower con one, fine) reliably in fear being completely f'd up. Or every enchanter on the server in seb grabbing a dar knight as a pet no problem like that shit's free.

In fact, every tick there should be at LEAST a 5% chance of the charm breaking (let's say just the base chance that should be working). Is that even the case right now? Doesn't seem like it. Same with roots lasting crazy durations.... even on, you guessed it planar trash which should be some of the most resistant mobs in the game outside of having an elemental affinity or being completely immune.

It's just wrong and the people doing it are defending their pixel gains. Period. Same as the previous issues with charming Sirran.

[Daldaen]

Provide logs and shit then Nirgon.

I provided mine, and 60 charming is working fine. If you think 50's are messed up provide a 2-3 hour clear of charming as a level 50 and how messed up that is.

And no. Planar trash should not be more resistant than basement Sebilis mobs or basically any mobs 55+.

[Potus]

Keep in mind we didn't see charming like this during live until dire charm became prevalent.

It is WAY too reliable and ez mode here, like almost to the point every charm is a dire charm. Coupled with nearly guaranteed channeling in my experience, its just a little too WAY OP (and not classic btw, get yo game face on -> sig).

Not true at all. People were charming during the game's beta.

Shit, Necromancers had the same charm line as Enchanters and it got taken out before game went live.

[Nirgon]

They had the enchanter charm line yes, I'm well aware at that time.

However, the shiverback charming I witnessed is just wrong and fucked up period.

[Daldaen]

THEN POST LOGS.

This is ClassicQuest, not rocket science. You think its wrong, stop complaining and post evidence. It is NOT that hard.

You've been going on and on about how easymode charms are here. Prove it and make the box more classic. Your memories aren't worth anything in these boards, only evidence.

[Tecmos Deception]

Prove it and make the box more classic.

http://bak2moi.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/gauntlet.jpg

[Haynar]

Blah blah blah. I already know changes coming for charm.

Lets argue about root.

H

[Nirgon]

I already know changes coming for charm.


Love dis guy.

Resta ya'll keep twistin'.

[pasi]

Not buying any of this. What else you got?

I'm just still standing over here... ya know with the lvl 50 druids charming shiverbacks (ya the lower con one, fine) reliably in fear being completely f'd up. Or every enchanter on the server in seb grabbing a dar knight as a pet no problem like that shit's free.

In fact, every tick there should be at LEAST a 5% chance of the charm breaking (let's say just the base chance that should be working). Is that even the case right now? Doesn't seem like it. Same with roots lasting crazy durations.... even on, you guessed it planar trash which should be some of the most resistant mobs in the game outside of having an elemental affinity or being completely immune.

It's just wrong and the people doing it are defending their pixel gains. Period. Same as the previous issues with charming Sirran.

I don't believe that 50 druids are reliably charming silverbacks here.

I have no idea where the 5% figure is coming from.

Anyhow, I do think that you're drastically underplaying how important levels are to the charm equation. The Dar's you mention are 45-50. Ideally, a 60 is looking for a 47-48 pet. Even Krups can be level 49. In general, the stuff that you're charming is 10-15 levels below you. Again, Planes weren't designed for 60 play. The vast majority of Kunark wasn't either. 60s are going to seem really strong in a playground of level 45-50 mobs, and they should.

At this point though, I'm jumping on the post logs bandwagon.

[Nirgon]

I'm jumpin' on the sounds like changes already comin' wagon.

Good one to be on.

Holocaust in fear on red used 50 druids with charmed shivers to clear. Was bout not classic as it comes. Glad to see it will be fixed.

I have a 60 enchanter on blue, I'm WELL versed in how OP this shit is.

See my reports on charming town front guards to kill epic NPCs and Sirran in sky. Know what I'm talkin bout.

[Potus]

Blah blah blah. I already know changes coming for charm.

Lets argue about root.

H

No offense, but if it's anything like the recent resist changes then please don't. :(

[Nirgon]

255 cap's comin'.

Time to help report anything that's off and help da project.

[pasi]

I'm jumpin' on the sounds like changes already comin' wagon.

Good one to be on.

I don't think the direction of charm/root changes has been stated. They were gutted last patch, and I'm not sure which way Haynar intends to adjust either.

So overall, I don't like the way min resist chance has been working out. However, it is what is causing root to break early and charm to break early.

So with respect to charm and root, in the current iteration of the code, are they breaking too often? Or not often enough?

So I am trying to adjust charm breaks and root breaks now.

The only real data provided since then was Daldaen's logs of a Glamoured 48(?) Revultant Rat.


Holocaust in fear on red used 50 druids with charmed shivers to clear. Was bout not classic as it comes. Glad to see it will be fixed.

I have a 60 enchanter on blue, I'm WELL versed in how OP this shit is.

I still don't believe that a 50 druid is reliably charming Shiverbacks. I have a 53 druid on blue that I can test this with some time. Charm is definitely overpowered, there is zero doubt about that. This game didn't even try to resemble balanced until Luclin (see: Complete Healing, Slow, /defensive, etc). I try not to fault the game on a mechanical level - EQ is what it is - the good and the bad.

See my reports on charming town front guards to kill epic NPCs and Sirran in sky. Know what I'm talkin bout.

Not really.

[Haynar]

No offense, but if it's anything like the recent resist changes then please don't. :(
Offense taken.

What class you play?

[Scrubosaur]

Blah blah blah. I already know changes coming for charm.

Lets argue about root.

H

Sweet charm is going to be fix! Now maybe they will last more than 10 secs on mobs 10 levels lower then yourself. And if we are going to talk about root then lets have spell level make a difference when rooting mobs. Obviously a high level root should not have the same chance to break as a low level root.

[Scrubosaur]

Offense taken.

What class you play?

Looks like Haynar skims the forums.....Potus is classic. You can find his posts all over the old classic eq forums and sites.

[Nirgon]

Offense taken.

What class you play?

He's an iksar necro on red.

High crimes of tricking Sundawg into making a guard (Ledshin) npc have a chance to spawn as either see invis or not see invis. This is also a great example of how people treat the evidence that IS available to suit their interests!

There is literally no other guard or in town NPC in the game that has a chance to either be see invis or not.

Some people think that there were literally no see invis npcs in any town.

Well... to them I'd say they never tried to make it through Freeport or Qeynos as a lowbie evil race back in the day.

(Fix that gatdayum necro healing recourse being dispellable god plz)

[Daldaen]

Beta Logs: Level 52-3 Drakkel Dire Wolf in Kael (near max level for druid charm)

Level 60 Druid
Level 52-53 pet (8-7 differential)
Likely had Tashan+Malo(sini). Possible breaks where it had just Glamour etc.

[Sun Mar 16 20:28:02 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 20:29:14 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 1min 12sec
[Sun Mar 16 20:35:52 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 20:38:57 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 3min 5sec
[Sun Mar 16 20:39:13 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 20:40:57 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 1min 44sec
[Sun Mar 16 20:41:08 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 20:46:40 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 5min 32sec
[Sun Mar 16 20:46:54 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf looks very uncomfortable. -- Malo
[Sun Mar 16 20:46:59 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 20:47:01 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf glances nervously about. -- Tash
[Sun Mar 16 20:48:10 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 1min 11sec
[Sun Mar 16 20:48:15 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 20:53:34 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 5min 19sec
[Sun Mar 16 20:53:49 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 20:53:53 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf looks very uncomfortable. -- Malo
[Sun Mar 16 21:05:29 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 9min 40sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:05:44 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:06:47 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 1min 3sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:06:54 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:07:05 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 0min 9sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:07:21 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:11:11 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 3min 50sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:11:22 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf looks very uncomfortable. -- Malo
[Sun Mar 16 21:11:30 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:12:05 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 0min 35sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:12:17 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf glances nervously about. -- Tash
[Sun Mar 16 21:12:17 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:16:17 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 4min 0sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:16:20 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:18:18 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 1min 58sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:18:20 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:21:12 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 2min 52sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:21:33 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:23:54 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 2min 21sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:24:06 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:26:42 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 2min 36sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:26:55 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:29:06 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 2min 11sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:29:13 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:31:42 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 2min 29sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:31:51 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:36:01 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 4min 10sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:36:32 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf glances nervously about. -- Tash
[Sun Mar 16 21:42:08 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf looks very uncomfortable. -- Malo
[Sun Mar 16 21:44:13 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:44:14 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf glances nervously about. -- Tash
[Sun Mar 16 21:47:49 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 3min 36sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:47:57 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:49:55 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 1min 58sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:50:09 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 21:55:26 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 5min 17sec
[Sun Mar 16 21:55:42 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:00:03 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 4min 21sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:00:44 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf looks very uncomfortable. -- Malo
[Sun Mar 16 22:00:52 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:07:03 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 6min 11sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:07:16 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf looks very uncomfortable. -- Malo
[Sun Mar 16 22:07:21 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:11:03 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 3min 42sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:11:33 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:14:03 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 2min 30sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:14:21 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:16:16 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 1min 55sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:16:27 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf looks very uncomfortable. -- Malo
[Sun Mar 16 22:16:44 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:17:46 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 1min 2sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:18:06 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:19:04 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 0min 58sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:19:15 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:22:04 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 2min 49sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:22:10 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:25:22 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 3min 12sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:25:48 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:34:53 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 9min 5sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:35:05 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:35:09 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf looks very uncomfortable. -- Malo
[Sun Mar 16 22:35:11 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 0min 6sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:35:28 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:35:41 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 0min 13sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:35:50 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:37:17 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 1min 27sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:37:24 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:40:47 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 3min 23sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:41:01 2014] A Drakkel Dire Wolf looks very uncomfortable. -- Malo
[Sun Mar 16 22:41:11 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:42:41 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 0min 30sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:42:55 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:48:18 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 5min 23sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:48:25 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:48:36 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 0min 11sec
[Sun Mar 16 22:48:46 2014] You begin casting Call of Karana.
[Sun Mar 16 22:50:42 2014] Your Call of Karana spell has worn off. -- 1min 56sec

And after getting through this, I realized that all those times should have 5 seconds removed from them since Call of Karana has a 5 second cast time.

[Haynar]

Should healing recourses be dispellable? Whats classic?

What about lifetaps? Any other issues besides not healing for full?

H

[Potus]

Offense taken.

What class you play?

I'm a monk..and I have a warrior alt! :D

He's an iksar necro on red.

High crimes of tricking Sundawg into making a guard (Ledshin) npc have a chance to spawn as either see invis or not see invis. This is also a great example of how people treat the evidence that IS available to suit their interests!

There is literally no other guard or in town NPC in the game that has a chance to either be see invis or not.

Some people think that there were literally no see invis npcs in any town.

Well... to them I'd say they never tried to make it through Freeport or Qeynos as a lowbie evil race back in the day.

(Fix that gatdayum necro healing recourse being dispellable god plz)

Don't start this shit again. I know you like to shit up bug threads with drama but please stop.

[Nirgon]

Should healing recourses be dispellable? Whats classic?


Should not be able to dispel recourse on necro heal. Since there was NOTHING in the one necro healing guide that was found about dispelling it, or anywhere else on the internet aside from when it was broken and quickly fixed... a botb necro champion from live came here and confirmed that it COULD NOT be dispelled. Period. Maybe its because of faster internet or google or everyone is suddenly better at EverQuest now or something, you guys can dream up any reasons you like that suddenly it should work differently.


Not really.

Yeah that's why its true and changed here. Not sure what line of thinking some of you follow.

Can't imagine trying to find a classic EQ server and making up bold faced lies or abusing something, knowing better and not reporting it.

My favorite quote is that charm was not used on heavy hitting mobs until Dire Charm. One would HOPE that would ring a few bells.

[Scrubosaur]

Should not be able to dispel recourse on necro heal. Since there was NOTHING in the one necro healing guide that was found about dispelling it, or anywhere else on the internet aside from when it was broken and quickly fixed... a botb necro champion from live came here and confirmed that it COULD NOT be dispelled. Period. Maybe its because of faster internet or google or everyone is suddenly better at EverQuest now or something, you guys can dream up any reasons you like that suddenly it should work differently.



Yeah that's why its true and changed here. Not sure what line of thinking some of you follow.

Can't imagine trying to find a classic EQ server and making up bold faced lies or abusing something, knowing better and not reporting it.

My favorite quote is that charm was not used on heavy hitting mobs until Dire Charm. One would HOPE that would ring a few bells.

hear·say
ˈhi(ə)rˌsā/
noun
information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

Can pretty much attach this to 90% of what Nirgon posts.

[pasi]

Yeah that's why its true and changed here. Not sure what line of thinking some of you follow.

Can't imagine trying to find a classic EQ server and making up bold faced lies or abusing something, knowing better and not reporting it.

My favorite quote is that charm was not used on heavy hitting mobs until Dire Charm. One would HOPE that would ring a few bells.

The "not really" was in response to "know what I'm talking about." With 15k posts on threads that I normally visit, you should know what positions that I have taken or at least not lump me into things. I think half your posts replying to me mention Sirran for some reason.

You're also taking the charm quote of mine out of context. Saying that it took Dire Charm for most enchanters to realize the power of charm doesn't mean that some players didn't realize this prior to dire charm.

I don't understand your need to troll bug forums though.

Haynar - as far as recourse goes, I don't know. There's some good information on the prior thread on this. What I do know is that if you had full buff slots, you could cast shadowbond or pact of shadow on a target and the recourse would not take hold on you.

[Tecmos Deception]

hear·say
ˈhi(ə)rˌsā/
noun
information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

Can pretty much attach this to 90% of what Nirgon posts.

To be fair, at least a couple of the exceptions to the hearsay rule would probably apply to a (good) classic-era guide :p

[karsten]

Haynar, people are getting lifetaps on green mobs resisted. I have no problem with you trying to work on resists, but A: it's getting fucked up and B: you're not telling anyone what you're doing before you do it.

So, now, on any given day, I log my chanter on and think "welp, i'll either be ok today, or i'll eat shit. Sorta depends on what Haynar's got going on today"

[Cenyan]

All I know is, I completely stopped playing my enchanter because of too many resists (in group and solo). I felt like I was worthless in a group because Mez would resist 2/3 times on blues and I have not played on P99 long so I don't have the uber twinked gear to survive those resists. I started a necro and now I'm getting lifetapped resists on green mobs and (ocasionally, maybe 1/15 mobs) i'm getting 5 darkness resists in a row to a mob 8 levels lower. Something needs to be done.

[Daldaen]

Should healing recourses be dispellable? Whats classic?

What about lifetaps? Any other issues besides not healing for full?

H
To start, there weren't many things that were not dispell able. I think Rez effects were the only thing.

It would be understandable that the detrimental effect to a very efficient heal would be required but I could also see people not thinking of dispell/posting it.

If evidence comes up that says "you cannot dispell the recourse" or something like that, nerf it. The evidence that is included in the necro heal guide just neglects to mention it.

July 2002 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020605a.html)

The Shadowbond series of spells can no longer be dispelled by the Necromancer.

Would be tough to argue against this IMO. Clearly states that the fix to dispelling was in Luclin.

Issue on lifetaps is them resisting on green mobs. They should basically be pretty damn close to unresistable outside of Magic immune style mobs I think.

[Technique]

Should not be able to dispel recourse on necro heal. Since there was NOTHING in the one necro healing guide that was found about dispelling it, or anywhere else on the internet aside from when it was broken and quickly fixed...Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

[Man0warr]

If Haynar is basing development decisions on stupid shit Nirgon comes up with no evidence, logs, or proof we are fucked.

[Nirgon]

Ya you are gonna have to play classic EverQuest. It might be painful.

And Dald? Someone can show me a necro healing guide where people talk about dispelling the recourse. Right back at ya. It's a no brainer to fix.

I imagine Haynar will make a fix for life taps and other obvious things not resisting on green mobs. It's Project 1999 aka a work in progress. Like, ya know, a project?

[BlkCamel]

If evidence comes up that says "you cannot dispell the recourse" or something like that, nerf it. The evidence that is included in the necro heal guide just neglects to mention it.

July 2002 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020605a.html)

The Shadowbond series of spells can no longer be dispelled by the Necromancer.

Would be tough to argue against this IMO. Clearly states that the fix to dispelling was in Luclin.

Issue on lifetaps is them resisting on green mobs. They should basically be pretty damn close to unresistable outside of Magic immune style mobs I think.

Nirgon this kind of proves you wrong, why patch it out if it wasn't possible, clearly you could dispell.

[Man0warr]

Ya you are gonna have to play classic EverQuest. It might be painful.

And Dald? Someone can show me a necro healing guide where people talk about dispelling the recourse. Right back at ya. It's a no brainer to fix.

I imagine Haynar will make a fix for life taps and other obvious things not resisting on green mobs. It's Project 1999 aka a work in progress. Like, ya know, a project?

Yeah but you make ridiculous claims and then ask us to disprove them as not Classic, instead of presenting evidence of your own proving they were Classic.

[Daldaen]

Ya you are gonna have to play classic EverQuest. It might be painful.

And Dald? Someone can show me a necro healing guide where people talk about dispelling the recourse. Right back at ya. It's a no brainer to fix.

I imagine Haynar will make a fix for life taps and other obvious things not resisting on green mobs. It's Project 1999 aka a work in progress. Like, ya know, a project?

I showed that in Luclin they removed the ability to dispell it. The onus is now upon you to prove that it could not dispell it before this, and that my patch note was just a crazy period where you could dispell it and they fixed that.

Currently the evidence does not support you Nirgon. Neglected to get mentioned in a guide would mean lots of things would have to be removed... Especially something so obscure.

[Haynar]

Wow you all jump to conclusions fast.

Dispell on yourself could be what they are talking abt. It may have been blocked dispell by others, but if u dispelled urself it dispelled. Why else would they refer to it that way.

Will look further.

[Haynar]

So my take, was others could not dispell. But if u cancel magic on urself u can remove your healing recourse. Doh! Not fixed til luclin.

H

[Daldaen]

It may have been that only Necromancers themselves could dispell the recourse effect. But it was dispellable is the point I think.

Basically it's working as intended on this server. Though it is stupidly OP IMO. Necromancers having a 125 HoT for like 70 mana is dumb. But, classic was dumb.

[Scrubosaur]

Ya you are gonna have to play classic EverQuest. It might be painful.

And Dald? Someone can show me a necro healing guide where people talk about dispelling the recourse. Right back at ya. It's a no brainer to fix.

I imagine Haynar will make a fix for life taps and other obvious things not resisting on green mobs. It's Project 1999 aka a work in progress. Like, ya know, a project?

Dald has already proved it with his link that a fix for dispelling the recourse was during the Luclin era. Case closed.

[Potus]

Nirgon's posted 2 threads already on Necro Recourse trying to get it nerfed, and both times people have posted that patch message.

Give it up, Nirgon, it's classic for this era. You're wrong.

[Treats]

Recourses were added and spell stacking modified on this patch:

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020904.html

Shadowbond no longer able to be dispelled on June 5, 2002.

Using the Trilogy client it was not possible to click off beneficial buffs from yourself that were cast by others.

While it could have been possible to dispel the icon from yourself, you would have still been forced to take the DoT if the icon was still on the target.

It was only one spell back then, there was no recourse.

Shadowbond showed up as "Shadowbond" on the buff bar for both the caster and the target.

In order to nullify the negative portion of the spell, both effects had to be removed.

[Wrench]

whenever i see treats name i think back to the pickpocket thread

he talks a good game but does some serious damage to p99 by getting people to buy in on his assumptions

[Nirgon]

Necro heal guide makes no mention. No posts anywhere saying to do it. Fast internet makes us smarter etc. Quit twisting!

Treats is a saint and was the best person I've ever seen test a game back when we thought EQ classic would deliver. His blood is pure.

[koros]

Recourses were added and spell stacking modified on this patch:

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020904.html

Shadowbond no longer able to be dispelled on June 5, 2002.

Using the Trilogy client it was not possible to click off beneficial buffs from yourself that were cast by others.

While it could have been possible to dispel the icon from yourself, you would have still been forced to take the DoT if the icon was still on the target.

It was only one spell back then, there was no recourse.

Shadowbond showed up as "Shadowbond" on the buff bar for both the caster and the target.

In order to nullify the negative portion of the spell, both effects had to be removed.

This... is wrong. It just applied the effect with a -1 multiplier. See siphon str, bond of death, etc. Those effects didn't wear off when mobs died.

[koros]

1. Necro casts siphon strength.
2. Target gets -str
3. Check is applied that type=lifetap
4. Effect is applied to the caster of the spell, and the effects are multiplied by -1
5. Necro gains strength for the same duration

1. Necro casts shadowbond.
2. Target gets +hp
3. Check is applied that type=lifetap
4. Effect is applied to the caster of the spell, and the effects are multiplied by -1
5. Necro loses hp for the same duration

Here's the raw data proving it used to be type=lifetap, changed at the very date the recourse was added. That's the flag that told the game to apply the effect in reverse to the caster.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=1717&source=Live

2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Target Type from Lifetap to Single

EVERY other type=lifetap with a duration could be dispelled. Every other type lasted after a mob no longer had the effect. They were NOT linked and were dispellable.

Case closed. I'm sick of reiterating this argument every few months.

[Scrubosaur]

Necro heal guide makes no mention. No posts anywhere saying to do it. Fast internet makes us smarter etc. Quit twisting!

Treats is a saint and was the best person I've ever seen test a game back when we thought EQ classic would deliver. His blood is pure.

/beating a dead horse gif.

[Nirgon]

Let me know where you find a reference to anyone dispelling the effect successfully anywhere.

It would have been widely known/used, and it wasn't.

Further if it had a visible effect to dispel and it was indeed dispellable, the first thing people would have tried to do was dispel it and there'd be mentions of it all over. Again, there isn't. It was briefly broken and quickly corrected outside of our time line.

[Velerin]

Problem is things that like are technically an exploit, so if it was the case back then the necros that knew about it I'm sure kept it hush hush as long as they could so it wouldn't be changed.
Was it a classic exploit that flew under the radar or was it not doable is the question?

The patch that made it no longer possible (that post from luclin or something) makes it sound like an exploit people used for a long time that was finally realized by Sony.

[derpcake]

1. Necro casts siphon strength.
2. Target gets -str
3. Check is applied that type=lifetap
4. Effect is applied to the caster of the spell, and the effects are multiplied by -1
5. Necro gains strength for the same duration

1. Necro casts shadowbond.
2. Target gets +hp
3. Check is applied that type=lifetap
4. Effect is applied to the caster of the spell, and the effects are multiplied by -1
5. Necro loses hp for the same duration

Here's the raw data proving it used to be type=lifetap, changed at the very date the recourse was added. That's the flag that told the game to apply the effect in reverse to the caster.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=1717&source=Live

2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Target Type from Lifetap to Single

EVERY other type=lifetap with a duration could be dispelled. Every other type lasted after a mob no longer had the effect. They were NOT linked and were dispellable.

Case closed. I'm sick of reiterating this argument every few months.

Good post.

[Nirgon]

It's just that if there was a recourse the first thing someone would have tried to do was dispel it. I tried dispelling res effects from myself on live just the same. Every classic necro I can find and talk to about this says you just absolutely could not. It's a stupid thing to rustle good posting pals like pasi/koros about, I'll let it go... but its wrong :P.

PS: Banishment of Shadows confirmed not allowed at necro botb :)

[Colgate]

did recourse effects even exist pre-luclin?

[Potus]

While it could have been possible to dispel the icon from yourself, you would have still been forced to take the DoT if the icon was still on the target.

It was only one spell back then, there was no recourse.

Shadowbond showed up as "Shadowbond" on the buff bar for both the caster and the target.

In order to nullify the negative portion of the spell, both effects had to be removed.

This is wrong and Necro dots never have worked this way ever on live. Not sure where you're getting this from.

Let me know where you find a reference to anyone dispelling the effect successfully anywhere.

It would have been widely known/used, and it wasn't.

Further if it had a visible effect to dispel and it was indeed dispellable, the first thing people would have tried to do was dispel it and there'd be mentions of it all over. Again, there isn't. It was briefly broken and quickly corrected outside of our time line.

Here you go, 2001 someone mentions just simply clicking the icon off. (http://web.archive.org/web/20010418040649/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=480)

I don't get why you keep bringing this up. Like I'm baffled you want this nerfed so bad.

[koros]

Necros didn't care about dispelling it Nirgon. They just used vexing/bod to heal instead of getting rid of all their damn buffs.

[koros]

From that same castersrealm snapshot. This is talking about impart strength. The same mechanics would apply. See how it mentions giving your whole party the effect and then cancelling it? It mentions 1. the recourse, 2. how the spell isn't gone from party members when it's removed from the caster, 3. how it can be clicked off the necro.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010418044926/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=389

THIS SPELL IS GREAT, By Azrel darkelf necromancer e'ci (1/28/2001)

you can give your whole party +str and then just left click the icon that is on your "effects" stack to turn it off and your party members still gain the bonus (it does override several str buffs cast on you, so just cast this on your party before they buff you)
SLIGHT BUG..., By Gnish (1/28/2001)

This spell will take 10 STR from you and give to another. Well, they fail to mention that it takes 10 from BASE STR without any buff spells on you. So, if your buffed STR (with magic buffs, not items) is 70, but normal STR is 60, then casting this spell will leave you with 50 STR. This is easily changed by casting Siphon Strength on your next target and then you'll be right back up to 70. A beneficial bug, is that you can cast this spell on multiple recipients

[SamwiseRed]

so this been broke for this long?

just came back a few days ago. a ton more resists for my roots lately but didnt think it was a big deal til I was getting a WD resist per hour.

http://i.imgur.com/XKbGNL9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qw7x2w4.jpg

dat aint right.

as for the off topic necro dispelling shit. buff stacking still isnt classic on this server. i cant find my old post but when you get buffed, it should always go on the first empty slot even if you already have that buff.

example:
[] empty
[] empty
[] skin like nerd
[] sow

someone casts sow on you and lands, it should look like this
[] sow
[] empty
[] skin like nerd
[]empty

worked like this on eq mac. i remember it this way in classic. I have screenshot proof somewhere but cant find. anyways bump.

[BlkCamel]

so this been broke for this long?

just came back a few days ago. a ton more resists for my roots lately but didnt think it was a big deal til I was getting a WD resist per hour.

http://i.imgur.com/XKbGNL9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qw7x2w4.jpg

dat aint right.

as for the off topic necro dispelling shit. buff stacking still isnt classic on this server. i cant find my old post but when you get buffed, it should always go on the first empty slot even if you already have that buff.

example:
[] empty
[] empty
[] skin like nerd
[] sow

someone casts sow on you and lands, it should look like this
[] sow
[] empty
[] skin like nerd
[]empty

worked like this on eq mac. i remember it this way in classic. I have screenshot proof somewhere but cant find. anyways bump.

Haynar has already mentioned next patch should fix spells with a -neg resist modifier like Winged Death to not be resisted. The last patch broke some things in regards to -neg resist modifiers. So this should be fixed.

[Sunderfury]

Moving to resolved due to age and the amount of patches since 'last patch', other data was sporadically listed throughout the thread. Can create any new/consolidated threads from the data to make it easier to interpret from the dev team.