Raid Scene Questions

[Juevento]

For whatever reason, I don't have acces to the raid forum.

Why are there spawns exclusive to Class C? In retrospect that doesn't make any sense. We really ought to have Class R and FFA spawns. I don't care about the split. Make it 2 FFA to 1 Class R if that works. But it's sort of counterintuitive to the spirit of competition have spawns restricted to only Class C.

Also this is quoted from the raid forums:

"I like Catherin's modification to the original agreement.

1. Killing an OOA is punishable by GM staff with a minimum of 1 week suspension.
2. A guild under suspension is not able to kill Nobles/OOAs"

What the hell are we talking about with this? Killing a mob gets you suspended!? This can't be seriously under consideration. This is a game where you kill mobs for Chest's sake. This feels like a bridge too far. Everquest is and always has been a game of risks. You leave OOAs up to generate more nobles. You do so at the risk that one of the other participating guilds breaks their agreement and douches out or the server goes down or whatever. Either way it's rediculous to even consider this option.

[JayN]

no one should be able to kill anything without the consent of chest first otherwise they eat a 2 week ban

[Glenzig]

This should be fun.

[Ciroco]

Killing certain mobs already gets you suspended.

[Ele]

For whatever reason, I don't have acces to the raid forum.

Why are there spawns exclusive to Class C? In retrospect that doesn't make any sense. We really ought to have Class R and FFA spawns. I don't care about the split. Make it 2 FFA to 1 Class R if that works. But it's sort of counterintuitive to the spirit of competition have spawns restricted to only Class C.

Also this is quoted from the raid forums:

"I like Catherin's modification to the original agreement.

1. Killing an OOA is punishable by GM staff with a minimum of 1 week suspension.
2. A guild under suspension is not able to kill Nobles/OOAs"

What the hell are we talking about with this? Killing a mob gets you suspended!? This can't be seriously under consideration. This is a game where you kill mobs for Chest's sake. This feels like a bridge too far. Everquest is and always has been a game of risks. You leave OOAs up to generate more nobles. You do so at the risk that one of the other participating guilds breaks their agreement and douches out or the server goes down or whatever. Either way it's rediculous to even consider this option.

Just like killing a mob while locked out in Class R gets you suspended?

[Supaskillz]

Currently class c guilds would have to be part of the rotation then as well. I am not sure you would hear much argument from C guilds on them getting in the r rotation and having 2ffa for every rotation spawn as long as you leave vp all FFA.

Agreed that staff shouldn't ban for violation of player made agreement. Trigger strategy activated, cooperation failed, daily spawn becomes weekly. Shit happens. Could attempt again, but I don't think anyone has faith in it working again.

[Juevento]

Just like killing a mob while locked out in Class R gets you suspended?

There is a big difference between being suspended for killing a mob that you are not eligible for because of the server rules that someone else is designated to kill and anyone getting suspended for ever killing a specific mob.

[Ciroco]

The entire raid scene is a staff enforced player agreement; the players were just pushed into it. This should be less controversial because it benefits literally everyone.

[Shinko]

why don't you guys man up and come to class C?

if you want to play endgame p99 come play with the big boys

[arsenalpow]

merge your way to the top

P much

[Ele]

Agreed that staff shouldn't ban for violation of player made agreement. Trigger strategy activated, cooperation failed, daily spawn becomes weekly. Shit happens. Could attempt again, but I don't think anyone has faith in it working again.

Why shouldn't we allow 10 guilds to voluntarily agree to eat a suspension enforced by GMs (not that they would enforce) if a guild violates said agreement? Those guilds could not legitimately complain about guilds that do not join the contract a la Lord Bob raiding Class R without agreeing to the rotation.

[Ele]

There is a big difference between being suspended for killing a mob that you are not eligible for because of the server rules that someone else is designated to kill and anyone getting suspended for ever killing a specific mob.

Server rule is a server rule, no?

[Juevento]

I'll be Lord Bobs biggest cheerleader if this ridiculousness goes into effect.

The concept that you are suspended for killing a mob that no one plans on killing is simply absurd.

[Ele]

I'll be Lord Bobs biggest cheerleader if this ridiculousness goes into effect.

The concept that you are suspended for killing a mob that no one plans on killing is simply absurd.

If no one plans on killing it, then no one should be worried about eating a suspension.

PS

For whatever reason, I don't have acces to the raid forum.


Raid forum is restricted to guild representatives -- your guild already has 5 representatives.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1490697

Bregan D`Aerth
Leader: Chest (arsenalpow)
Leader: Sadad (Sadad)
Officer: Anichek (Anichek
Officer: Sanluen (sanluen)
Officer: Troubledour [Troubled)

[Supaskillz]

Why shouldn't we allow 10 guilds to voluntarily agree to eat a suspension enforced by GMs (not that they would enforce) if a guild violates said agreement? Those guilds could not legitimately complain about guilds that do not join the contract a la Lord Bob raiding Class R without agreeing to the rotation.
Actually I guess that's fine as long as staff is willing. It's actually a commitment mechanism for this prisoners dilemma. Everyone knows they are better off if no one kills ooa.

[ZumgrugDloc]

why don't you guys man up and come to class C?

if you want to play endgame p99 come play with the big boys

[Supaskillz]

I am actually surprised class r rotation has survived as long as it has. I expected a bunch of alt guilds by now

[Splorf22]

Word on the street is those alt guilds exist. Sirken even told me that TMO is infiltrating the A-Team (then he refused to tell me who they were).

[Supaskillz]

Why join existing guilds. Make 18 man guilds and maximize your loots

[Ambrotos]

If no one plans on killing it, then no one should be worried about eating a suspension.

PS



Raid forum is restricted to guild representatives -- your guild already has 5 representatives.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1490697

Should be updated. Still have people posting on there that their leadership removed. Only Rogean has access to update it.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1474980

Sirken made a post requesting each guild lower the number of representatives with access to this board to 3 maximum. Please post your removals as soon as possible so we can get everyone access who needs it.

When picking people with access to this board, please be selective and pick only people who can remain respectful and on topic. It is also very important that you pick people who have the authority to represent and speak for your guild. The purpose of this forum is to have people authorized to represent their respective sides, gather the opinions of their guild, and be an emissary for those thoughts/ideas to the rest of the raid community, so that we can have small, controlled discussions about those ideas.

The current Raid Discussion Roster will look something like this:

A-Team
Leader: Qelen (Qelen (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=14145))
Officer: Argh (Argh (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=8330))
Officer: Cobblestone (Wycca (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=112263))

Asgard
Leader: Artaenc (Artaenc (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=26096))
Officer: Pint (Pint (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=5235))

Azure Guard
Leader: Nemce (bktroost (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=18577))
Officer: Phiren (phiren (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=32981))
Officer: Yaolin (Yaolin (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=27842))

Bregan D`Aerth
Leader: Chest (arsenalpow (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=12562))
Leader: Sadad (Sadad (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=75))
Officer: Anichek (Anichek (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=19323)

Doljonijiarnimorinar
Leader: Hyjal (Hyjal (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=111491))

Divinity
Leader:Drakakade (Drakakade (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=19207))
Officer: Rawbster: (Rawbster (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=762))
Officer: Vehk (Dentalplan (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=9192))

Europa
Officer: Boilonjr (Boilon (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=15278))
Officer: Gaviilan (rafaone (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=8861))
Officer: Powtle (Powtle (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=33671))

Indigination
Leader: Elzhi (Jpetrick (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=34789))
Officer: Pulsate (Nightbear (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=21458))

Inglourious Basterds
Leader: Getsome (getsome (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=3954))
Officer: Hokushin (Hokushin (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=13524))
Officer: Lilyanna (lilyanna (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=11789))

Knights Who Say Ni
Leader: Stembolt (myxomatosii (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=15597))

Supremacy
Leader: Barahir (Barahir (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=14471))
Officer: Capco (Capco (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=32768))
Officer: Gaaven(Gaaaaavin (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=451))

Taken
Leader: Fearstalker (Striiker (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=2670))
Officer: Catherin (-Catherin- (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=17936))
Officer: Eratani (Erati (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=1080))

The Mystical Order
Leader: Zagum (bizzum (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=11194))
Officer: Mazam (Komodon (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=24337))
Officer: Unbrella (Ella`Ella (http://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=30369))

Edit: Got everyone's revisions, ty for being so quick.

[loramin]

I think you can take Supremacy off that list; when I left Barahir had stopped playing, Capco went to another guild, and I think Gaaven left also. AFAIK the guild is dead.

[Detoxx]

zerg recruit all the way to the top, obtain p much the biggest roster on server, refuse to compete for mobs and bitch and complain until we get our weekly welfare, complain that class c mobs shouldnt be restricted to class c and not have the balls to move up to class c

P much

[Ravager]

What was TMO like Pre-Kunark?

We couldn't break fear until papa Zeelot took over and we merged a few times

P much

[Auvdar]

Wipe it clean! (Am I doing this right?)

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I was reading my new modified lease agreement for my Toyota Camry, and then logged on, and realize my new modified lease agreement for my Toyota Camry was more exciting that this thread.

[Rourk]

Oh shit they better change the subject quickly

[fouts85]

/popcorn

[Clark]

Also this is quoted from the raid forums:

"I like Catherin's modification to the original agreement.

1. Killing an OOA is punishable by GM staff with a minimum of 1 week suspension.
2. A guild under suspension is not able to kill Nobles/OOAs"

[Cecily]

I agree with the Taken's suggestion because of the satisfaction I'd get knowing that these new pointless GM enforced raiding rules would infringe upon the guild responsible for championing our current pointless GM enforced raiding rules.

[Argh]

Well, this is a dumb thread.

[Pint]

Well, this is a dumb thread.

Nailed it

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Word on the street is those alt guilds exist. Sirken even told me that TMO is infiltrating the A-Team (then he refused to tell me who they were).

I'd say that class R guilds have characters in class C guilds, but they actually get loot here based on how much they show up and quickly leave that class R shit behind if they do play a decent amount.

[captnamazing]

One of my favorite meals to share with a guest is a dinner of steak, baked potato, and steamed kale. The potato and the kale are easy. Just set the shit to bake and steam and open a bottle of wine so it can breathe while it cooks. The trick is making the steak right.

Take your steak out of the fridge an hour before you cook it. Put some salt on both sides so that it can absorb the moisture. This is best to do before you prepare your vegetables.

If you're like me, you don't have a grill, so you have to cook it in a pan on the range. I use a copper bottom frying pan without a non-stick surface. I turn the heat up on the range to maximum and allow the pan to pre-heat to a healthy amount. Turning back to the steak, pat it down with a paper towel to remove the moisture. Then rub in your select seasonings. I tend to be very simple - salt and pepper.

I tend to use a pad of butter, but that's debatable. Especially if the steak is fatty, there might be absolutely no need for any additional cooking fats. Put the steak into the extremely hot pan and let it sizzle and smoke for four minutes. Don't be afrad- it's supposed to do that! Flip it and give four minutes to the other side. Then remove the steak and let it cool for 5-10 minutes.

If you time this well, the steak(s) will finish cooking at the same time the kale is done steaming and the potatoes are done baking. Pour yourself and your company some wine and then stretch, because soon you'll be visiting the land of Coitus.

[hivemind]

One of my favorite meals to share with a guest is a dinner of steak, baked potato, and steamed kale. The potato and the kale are easy. Just set the shit to bake and steam and open a bottle of wine so it can breathe while it cooks. The trick is making the steak right.

Take your steak out of the fridge an hour before you cook it. Put some salt on both sides so that it can absorb the moisture. This is best to do before you prepare your vegetables.

If you're like me, you don't have a grill, so you have to cook it in a pan on the range. I use a copper bottom frying pan without a non-stick surface. I turn the heat up on the range to maximum and allow the pan to pre-heat to a healthy amount. Turning back to the steak, pat it down with a paper towel to remove the moisture. Then rub in your select seasonings. I tend to be very simple - salt and pepper.

I tend to use a pad of butter, but that's debatable. Especially if the steak is fatty, there might be absolutely no need for any additional cooking fats. Put the steak into the extremely hot pan and let it sizzle and smoke for four minutes. Don't be afrad- it's supposed to do that! Flip it and give four minutes to the other side. Then remove the steak and let it cool for 5-10 minutes.

If you time this well, the steak(s) will finish cooking at the same time the kale is done steaming and the potatoes are done baking. Pour yourself and your company some wine and then stretch, because soon you'll be visiting the land of Coitus.

Good post, especially the seasoning the steak part. I cannot tell you how much I dislike over-seasoned steak. Do yourself a favor (as well as your company) and pay an extra few bucks on a nicer cut or a nicer cow, and savor the flavor. Don't drown that shit out with too much seasoning :(

Nice sides too, pretty neutral in flavor allowing the steak to really shine. I honestly would prefer something like a spinach or arugula salad to start things off, but that is probably because I'm hungry as fuck right now.

[hivemind]

Also, nothing will set you up for "Coitus" like a double sloth avatar. My fucking god man, this dude knows what's up. LAUNCH NOTEPAD AND START TAKING NOTES EVERYONE (no sarcasm).

[captnamazing]

Do yourself a favor (as well as your company) and pay an extra few bucks on a nicer cut or a nicer cow, and savor the flavor. Don't drown that shit out with too much seasoning :(

Yeah man, totally. It's worth it to get some really high quality grass fed beef and do this only once or twice a month.

[sanforce]

can we PLEASE bring training back to VP? none of that other stuff will do tho

[Sckrilla]

can we PLEASE bring training back to VP?

[Aeaolena]

One of my favorite meals to share with a guest is a dinner of steak, baked potato, and steamed kale. The potato and the kale are easy. Just set the shit to bake and steam and open a bottle of wine so it can breathe while it cooks. The trick is making the steak right.

Take your steak out of the fridge an hour before you cook it. Put some salt on both sides so that it can absorb the moisture. This is best to do before you prepare your vegetables.

If you're like me, you don't have a grill, so you have to cook it in a pan on the range. I use a copper bottom frying pan without a non-stick surface. I turn the heat up on the range to maximum and allow the pan to pre-heat to a healthy amount. Turning back to the steak, pat it down with a paper towel to remove the moisture. Then rub in your select seasonings. I tend to be very simple - salt and pepper.

I tend to use a pad of butter, but that's debatable. Especially if the steak is fatty, there might be absolutely no need for any additional cooking fats. Put the steak into the extremely hot pan and let it sizzle and smoke for four minutes. Don't be afrad- it's supposed to do that! Flip it and give four minutes to the other side. Then remove the steak and let it cool for 5-10 minutes.


Damnit Filbus. I want steak now :( And I can't have steak right now unless it's charred dead to hell and back. *shakes fist*

[Glenzig]

If you're like me, you don't have a grill, so you have to cook it in a pan on the range. I use a copper bottom frying pan without a non-stick surface. I turn the heat up on the range to maximum and allow the pan to pre-heat to a healthy amount. Turning back to the steak, pat it down with a paper towel to remove the moisture. Then rub in your select seasonings. I tend to be very simple - salt and pepper.

Cast iron my man. Gotta go cast iron.

[kaev]

Cast iron my man. Gotta go cast iron.

This man speaks truth!

[bigsykedaddy]

The whole raid agreement is stupid. I bet all of you people who wanted a loot vending machine are on food stamps too.

[Daldaen]

Part of the argument for the raid agreement was that not everyone is able to answer batphones 24 hours a day... Cause you know, they're working. So it was made to allow all to experience classic raiding given they can still field a raid force competent and geared enough to kill said mobs.

But yes, definitely food stamps thing too. God damn takers and this entitlement nation.

[Locust]

The whole raid agreement is stupid. I bet all of you people who wanted a loot vending machine are on food stamps too.

i bet you're on food stamps

"Psychological projection is the act or technique of defending oneself against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in oneself, while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude."

[Ravager]

I prefer my steaks grilled, but when I pan fry them, I like to make a blue cheese gravy to drizzle over the top with the drippings:

3/4 Can Beef Broth
1/4 Cup Brandy
4 Cloves Garlic, crushed or minced
1/4 Tsp Dried Basil
3 Tbsp Butter
1 1/4 Cup Blue Cheese

1.) Saute the garlic in the butter, set aside.
2.) Pan fry the steaks. When they're done, take them out of the pan, set them aside tented with foil.
3.) Add the broth, brandy and garlic to the pan drippings. Boil it down until it coats a spoon.
4.) Reduce the heat and stir in the blue cheese until it's melted evenly. Add the basil and salt and pepper to taste. Pour the sauce over the steaks.

It's a very rich sauce and definitely not healthy, but it sure is good on special occasions.

[quido]

young head doctor

[Dragonsblood1987]

For whatever reason, I don't have acces to the raid forum.

Why are there spawns exclusive to Class C? In retrospect that doesn't make any sense. We really ought to have Class R and FFA spawns. I don't care about the split. Make it 2 FFA to 1 Class R if that works. But it's sort of counterintuitive to the spirit of competition have spawns restricted to only Class C.

Also this is quoted from the raid forums:

"I like Catherin's modification to the original agreement.

1. Killing an OOA is punishable by GM staff with a minimum of 1 week suspension.
2. A guild under suspension is not able to kill Nobles/OOAs"

What the hell are we talking about with this? Killing a mob gets you suspended!? This can't be seriously under consideration. This is a game where you kill mobs for Chest's sake. This feels like a bridge too far. Everquest is and always has been a game of risks. You leave OOAs up to generate more nobles. You do so at the risk that one of the other participating guilds breaks their agreement and douches out or the server goes down or whatever. Either way it's rediculous to even consider this option.

TMO.

[Messianic]

Hilarious thread.

[fastboy21]

pie. pumpkin. pie.

you eat nasty chips...

[Ikonoclastia]

This would only apply to those who have agreed though surely? What if someone put together a PUG raid. Would they get suspended?

[fastboy21]

This would only apply to those who have agreed though surely? What if someone put together a PUG raid. Would they get suspended?

don't ask these questions! bad bad! no more questions! eeeeep.

[webrunner5]

Why join existing guilds. Make 18 man guilds and maximize your loots

Person has a point. If you have top tier gear on everyone in it and lots of plat among all, you are a Guild to kill about anything if everyone shows up.

[fastboy21]

Person has a point. If you have top tier gear on everyone in it and lots of plat among all, you are a Guild to kill about anything if everyone shows up.

the answer is that guilds aren't just a means to getting you the pixels of your dreams...

if the only reason you are playing eq after 15 years is to get your epic or some VP loot by joining a guild then wtf are you really doing here?

[Tecmos Deception]

if the only reason you are playing eq after 15 years is to get your epic or some VP loot by joining a guild then wtf are you really doing here?

Getting told how to have fun by someone else, apparently :)

[fastboy21]

Getting told how to have fun by someone else, apparently :)

its a sincere question, not a down the nose comment. if its actually "fun" for you to get gear that you've already gotten a dozen years ago in an mmo that you already played then more power to you.

i think what is interesting about how many people keep playing classic EQ is that there is more to it than just chasing pixels for many of us now.

my point isn't that "hard core" gaming is a waste of time or that you shouldn't be having fun doing it. my point was that the reason to join a guild doesn't necessarily have anything to do with getting loot---and for some folks, that is a completely perplexing statement.

i hope if you play any game you are doing it have fun. enjoy EQ how you like it...its what makes open ended sand box style MMOs so intriguing.

[webrunner5]

the answer is that guilds aren't just a means to getting you the pixels of your dreams...

if the only reason you are playing eq after 15 years is to get your epic or some VP loot by joining a guild then wtf are you really doing here?

I would agree with your assessment. But, as I guess you are aware of if you have played here since the start or close to it this has become some pretty boring shit. I have I think 7 toons over 50, at least 5 or 6 of them are total twinks pretty much, and probably hmmm, 9 more alts, what would you suggest I get excited about? Been there done that.

[Strifer]

no one should be able to kill anything without the consent of chest first otherwise they eat a 2 week ban

[Nietche]

The whole raid agreement is stupid. I bet all of you people who wanted a loot vending machine are on food stamps too.

Mainly in before RnF. But we should really go back to a time when pseudo-WoW instances weren't in effect with a CSR-enforced rotation. This "redistribution of the wealth" garbage was all one person's idea (hint: he's in BDA), and now we have a situation where a guild like Azure Guard can't kill a dragon because of a CSR rule--yet receives the blessing of every other Class R guild to do so--and gets suspended.

It's mind boggling that people who came to play the classic everquest on Project 1999 (thank you, Rogean; much pras) are quibbling about the classic experience. Go back to other MMO's. Stop ruining our land!

[Uteunayr]

Before RnF with RnF logic? Lol. Okay.

[Nietche]

Before RnF with RnF logic? Lol. Okay.

How is that RnF logic? I'm not the only person on the server who feels as if the "classic experience" on P99 has been muddied with rotations and the like, not to mention being forced to kill 90% of the dragons within a 1.5-day timeframe. It's basically a WoW-like lockout period.

[Uteunayr]

How is that RnF logic? I'm not the only person on the server who feels as if the "classic experience" on P99 has been muddied with rotations and the like.

Lets go through it step by step then.

Mainly in before RnF. But we should really go back to a time when pseudo-WoW instances weren't in effect with a CSR-enforced rotation.

Equating a class system to an instance is a terrible comparison. They are significantly different. Just because the Class R guilds came together to decide that they (with the exception of Dolj later on) wanted to rotate their mobs changes nothing. By the core of the raiding rules as laid down by Rogean, Class R mobs are competitive among Class R guilds.

It is a disservice to even put this in the same category as instancing, as it is still open world mobs, merely stipulating which of the guilds are permitted to go after it to prevent the complete domination of the content (something that can happen far easier due to numerous non-classic factors that define this server, not the least of which is the knowledge we have and the time frame). In an instance, you do not have competition against other guilds, you are in your own safe bubble focusing all your efforts against the PvE content. Class R is not a singular unit, and just because for 1/3rd of the kills, they have the chance to compete amongst themselves for mobs (which most of them have waived) does not an instance make.

This "redistribution of the wealth" garbage was all one person's idea (hint: he's in BDA),

The system of "redistribution", as you are labeling it (a label which I would also point out is severely faulted, as it suggests anyone prior to the agreement had ownership of the random spawns, and ultimately everything in this game is owned by the server owners), was from a class system put into place and proposed first and foremost by Rogean as the "Staff Proposal". The rotation was an agreement made by a wide assortment of Class R guilds, not "one person's idea".

and now we have a situation where a guild like Azure Guard can't kill a dragon because of a CSR rule--yet receives the blessing of every other Class R guild to do so--and gets suspended.

They can't kill a dragon because they had previously killed it and were on lock out. It's not to be maligned as being unable to take the thing down. They were restricted because they are Class R (class Restricted). If they want to have free access to those dragons at any point, they can just go to Class C. That's the incentive for not being Class R. If you want to get the full go-for-anything experience without lock outs, go Class C.

I agree, it sucks that you cannot have every other Class R guild agree to waive the rule, but to do so would allow a dominance over the content by the rotation, and damage the potential of other guilds like Dolj who do not seek to adhere to such things, and prefer the competitive side of Class R. While I dislike how it turned out (because I truly believe AG simply made a mistake in counting), I applaud the GMs, in the case, for possibly recognizing the potential for hegemonic domination over Class R that could have occurred should they be allowed every guild that was Class R simply waive it. Guilds would be able to stomp out any competing guild that wanted to join Class R by simply ignoring the lock outs and preventing them from being considered Class R.

It's mind boggling that people who came to play the classic everquest on Project 1999 (thank you, Rogean; much pras) are quibbling about the classic experience. Go back to other MMO's. Stop ruining our land!

Project 1999 is not, and could never be a classic experience. We know too much, and it has taken too long. On the Kunark timeline, we're in Planes of Power. This is not a classic experience, and it cannot be even close to that. We have seen this server go through dupers, through a much longer time table for patches, which ultimately leads to alt build up, a heavy clustering of 60s, and much greater competition over mobs.

If anyone is under the impression that this server pre-Staff Plan was Classic, they are terribly mistaken. What we have now is far from classic, perhaps just as much as what we had before. At least with what we have now, people are able to see the content at some point and experience what they may have missed out on back in the day. More people are seeing what the fights were like, and that is a good thing for a server that runs on and appeals new players on the grounds of nostalgia.

So, all around, things like saying that this was all one person's idea, that the system is a redistribution of wealth, equating a class structure to instancing... This all reeks of RnF logic.

[Nietche]

Equating a class system to an instance is a terrible comparison.

Read! But we should really go back to a time when pseudo-WoW instances weren't in effect with a CSR-enforced rotation.

The rotation was an agreement made by a wide assortment of Class R guilds, not "one person's idea".

You're wrong. One single person came up with this idea, and everyone else who currently supports it has drank the koolaid.

They can't kill a dragon because they had previously killed it and were on lock out...I agree, it sucks that you cannot have every other Class R guild agree to waive the rule, but to do so would allow a dominance over the content by the rotation, and damage the potential of other guilds like Dolj who do not seek to adhere to such things, and prefer the competitive side of Class R.

Competition is classic. Helping other guilds is classic. Unfortunately, clamoring for a vending machine is also classic. GM-enforced rotations are not classic.

Project 1999 is not, and could never be a classic experience.

Why couldn't it be?

What we have now is far from classic.

Correct.

At least with what we have now, people are able to see the content at some point and experience what they may have missed out on back in the day. More people are seeing what the fights were like, and that is a good thing for a server that runs on and appeals new players on the grounds of nostalgia.

Anyone could see any part of this game through the lens of the classic experience on Project 1999 if they put in the work. What you're on about is that people get to see the same content but with no work.

[Clark]

This thread f-ing sucks bro no offense.

[Splorf22]

How is that RnF logic? I'm not the only person on the server who feels as if the "classic experience" on P99 has been muddied with rotations and the like, not to mention being forced to kill 90% of the dragons within a 1.5-day timeframe. It's basically a WoW-like lockout period.

Sure, bring on the classic. No GM raid rules; no variance.

[Uteunayr]

Read!

Pseudo - "not genuine; sham.", Syn: "bogus, sham, phony, artificial, mock, ersatz, quasi-, fake, false, spurious, deceptive, misleading, assumed, contrived, affected, insincere;"

Attaching Pseudo to a word doesn't divorce it from the word and make everything not the word a pseudo- version of it. Saying it is a pseudo-WoW instancing is still attaching the rotation to an instance, but saying it is a phony, an artificial, a mock, a fake, a false, a deceptive, a misleading, or contrived version of an instance. But it is still defined as an instance, just a sham, lame attempt at it. An orange is not a pseudo-apple. Those fake fruits house sales people put on tables, those are pseudo-apples.

I did read.

You're wrong. One single person came up with this idea, and everyone else who currently supports it has drank the koolaid.

Based on... What? The idea of rotating mobs was not thought up by a single person, and it has been around since classic. It has been around in other forms of social distribution of resources throughout history. The idea of rotating mobs among the Class R guilds, further, could not have occurred without consent from those who have the most to gain from No rotation.

Lets just think about the logic here: If I am a profit maximizing asshole, a true to form Davos man, a Bentham utilitarian exemplar, I want what is going to give me the most at all times. If I am a guild like Bregan D'Aerth, or Taken, and so on, and I want to be the profit maximizing asshole, do I get any real benefit from a rotation?

Well, as we know, you get a kill, and you are locked out for 2 rounds. This means that Class R, as the rules are now, could be locked down by 3 strong guilds. Guild A, Guild B, Guild C. There is also Guild D, E, F, and G. But they do not have the numbers, the force, or the strength to take on that. Guild A, B, and C compete on the first spawn of Mob 1. Guild A gets it. They are now locked. Guild B and C and guild D compete on Mob 2, and C gets it. Then Guild B competes with the weaker Guild D & E to get it. So you get a rotation of A -> C -> B, and the only guilds that can compete for those mobs have to go against one of these top guilds to do it. Since A and C are not fighting over the same mob in successive attempts, comparable skill sets are not put against one another.

Now, what happened instead is that every guild in Class R decided that it was mutually beneficial to create a rotation. The higher, more powerful guilds gave up their chance at having 33% of all mobs.

The entire logic of a rotation works against you, as one single guild could not make that happen. It takes, at a minimum, one of the guilds in A/B/C to create a rotation with D/E/F/G. The very fact that the guilds in Class R that are powerful enough for this gave this up for the benefit of Class R guilds more generally is far from the act of a single individual.

Competition is classic. Helping other guilds is classic. Unfortunately, clamoring for a vending machine is also classic. GM-enforced rotations are not classic.

"Vending machine"... And you ask how what you said was RnF? Lol. And you say other Class R guilds drink the kool-aid.

Still beside the point though, this server isn't classic. There is far too much on this server for it to be anywhere close to it. This server would need a huge enema for it to even start to resemble classic. In lieu of that, at least people can feel their nostalgia again. The competition guilds are up against in this bloated server is far from classic.

Why couldn't it be?

Because time is linear to us at the moment?

Unless you can duplicate player's ignorance, the client, the connections, the lack of available information from outside a player's mind, and make it the late 90's again, you're not going to get classic. We know too much about how this game works for it to be a genuine classic experience. We don't have to pay for a subscription allowing for people to make dozens of accounts without issue. We haven't had less than a Year in Classic and in Kunark for that content to occur.

All of this directly cuts against any chance for this server to be Classic. It allows for the server to be bloated. What we have is Pseudo-Classic. But it's better than No-Classic.

Anyone could see any part of this game through the lens of the classic experience on Project 1999 if they put in the work. What you're on about is that people get to see the same content but with no work.

In a world where people think that accomplishing anything in EverQuest can be done with no work. There's a difference from the classic experience of grinding up to 60, joining a top raiding guild of people who were, more or less, on the same timeline on you. Now, you're grinding up and going against stuff that has been bloated for years worth of stale content.

As a quick side note, I will point out that this isn't something to be blamed on anyone, gods know the devs do great work and I offer them all the respect in the world, this is just the negative side effect.

Further, it was made rather clear that no, you wont get to see the same content with no work. That is yet another example of RnF logic, saying that it is "no" work, rather than "less" work. Those are two very different words, and they mean very different things. Being a Class R guild still comes with work. It may be "less work" (which I argue is not necessarily the case, merely a different type of work), but for that different work, you're Restricted. If you want to put in "more work", as you put it, then you can go to Class C. Additionally, if you want to stay in Restricted, you will never see Veeshan's Peak. You will never see the top of the line content.

So, again, RnF logic: "What you're on about is that people get to see the same content but with no work." It is neither the same content, nor is it no work.

That's why I commented that you were saying you were posting before RnF, but you were using RnF logic.

[Nietche]

I feel as if you agree with me, but with a lot of extra words.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Pseudo - "not genuine; sham.", Syn: "bogus, sham, phony, artificial, mock, ersatz, quasi-, fake, false, spurious, deceptive, misleading, assumed, contrived, affected, insincere;"

Attaching Pseudo to a word doesn't divorce it from the word and make everything not the word a pseudo- version of it. Saying it is a pseudo-WoW instancing is still attaching the rotation to an instance, but saying it is a phony, an artificial, a mock, a fake, a false, a deceptive, a misleading, or contrived version of an instance. But it is still defined as an instance, just a sham, lame attempt at it. An orange is not a pseudo-apple. Those fake fruits house sales people put on tables, those are pseudo-apples.

I did read.



Based on... What? The idea of rotating mobs was not thought up by a single person, and it has been around since classic. It has been around in other forms of social distribution of resources throughout history. The idea of rotating mobs among the Class R guilds, further, could not have occurred without consent from those who have the most to gain from No rotation.

Lets just think about the logic here: If I am a profit maximizing asshole, a true to form Davos man, a Bentham utilitarian exemplar, I want what is going to give me the most at all times. If I am a guild like Bregan D'Aerth, or Taken, and so on, and I want to be the profit maximizing asshole, do I get any real benefit from a rotation?

Well, as we know, you get a kill, and you are locked out for 2 rounds. This means that Class R, as the rules are now, could be locked down by 3 strong guilds. Guild A, Guild B, Guild C. There is also Guild D, E, F, and G. But they do not have the numbers, the force, or the strength to take on that. Guild A, B, and C compete on the first spawn of Mob 1. Guild A gets it. They are now locked. Guild B and C and guild D compete on Mob 2, and C gets it. Then Guild B competes with the weaker Guild D & E to get it. So you get a rotation of A -> C -> B, and the only guilds that can compete for those mobs have to go against one of these top guilds to do it. Since A and C are not fighting over the same mob in successive attempts, comparable skill sets are not put against one another.

Now, what happened instead is that every guild in Class R decided that it was mutually beneficial to create a rotation. The higher, more powerful guilds gave up their chance at having 33% of all mobs.

The entire logic of a rotation works against you, as one single guild could not make that happen. It takes, at a minimum, one of the guilds in A/B/C to create a rotation with D/E/F/G. The very fact that the guilds in Class R that are powerful enough for this gave this up for the benefit of Class R guilds more generally is far from the act of a single individual.



"Vending machine"... And you ask how what you said was RnF? Lol. And you say other Class R guilds drink the kool-aid.

Still beside the point though, this server isn't classic. There is far too much on this server for it to be anywhere close to it. This server would need a huge enema for it to even start to resemble classic. In lieu of that, at least people can feel their nostalgia again. The competition guilds are up against in this bloated server is far from classic.



Because time is linear to us at the moment?

Unless you can duplicate player's ignorance, the client, the connections, the lack of available information from outside a player's mind, and make it the late 90's again, you're not going to get classic. We know too much about how this game works for it to be a genuine classic experience. We don't have to pay for a subscription allowing for people to make dozens of accounts without issue. We haven't had less than a Year in Classic and in Kunark for that content to occur.

All of this directly cuts against any chance for this server to be Classic. It allows for the server to be bloated. What we have is Pseudo-Classic. But it's better than No-Classic.



In a world where people think that accomplishing anything in EverQuest can be done with no work. There's a difference from the classic experience of grinding up to 60, joining a top raiding guild of people who were, more or less, on the same timeline on you. Now, you're grinding up and going against stuff that has been bloated for years worth of stale content.

As a quick side note, I will point out that this isn't something to be blamed on anyone, gods know the devs do great work and I offer them all the respect in the world, this is just the negative side effect.

Further, it was made rather clear that no, you wont get to see the same content with no work. That is yet another example of RnF logic, saying that it is "no" work, rather than "less" work. Those are two very different words, and they mean very different things. Being a Class R guild still comes with work. It may be "less work" (which I argue is not necessarily the case, merely a different type of work), but for that different work, you're Restricted. If you want to put in "more work", as you put it, then you can go to Class C. Additionally, if you want to stay in Restricted, you will never see Veeshan's Peak. You will never see the top of the line content.

So, again, RnF logic: "What you're on about is that people get to see the same content but with no work." It is neither the same content, nor is it no work.

That's why I commented that you were saying you were posting before RnF, but you were using RnF logic.

^ fat

[Uteunayr]

From your first post, you are negative about what we have now relative to what went on pre-raid agreement. I am quite positive, all things considered. You pin this all on a single person, and I say it is a collective effort on the part of numerous actors as a single actor could not, in any way, force what is going on in Class R. We disagree on a number of key points, and they should be more than apparent from the recent posts. Hence, the reason for writing them. From what was written, I think the most we have agreed on, baring gaming ontological differences, is the challenges the server faces emulating classic.

[Jay F Kay]

I see a lot of people seem to refer to "handouts" and the all powerful "Loot vending machine" (can someone tell me where this is?) while talking about class R. I think we all seem to forget that the prerequisite for obtaining loot is being able to kill that which drops it; Not a competition of who has the most jobless people able to sit around and track at all hours (we all know who the winner is there). Perhaps velious will alleviate the issue once things become more difficult, but for the moment, all of us are stepping up to the same 32khp "vending machine" regardless of class.

[Daldaen]

I see a lot of people seem to refer to "handouts" and the all powerful "Loot vending machine" (can someone tell me where this is?) while talking about class R. I think we all seem to forget that the prerequisite for obtaining loot is being able to kill that which drops it; Not a competition of who has the most jobless people able to sit around and track at all hours (we all know who the winner is there). Perhaps velious will alleviate the issue once things become more difficult, but for the moment, all of us are stepping up to the same 32khp "vending machine" regardless of class.

I said the exact same thing when they were debating the class system. But this is the Internet. And much like Fox News, on the Internet your logic and reasoning have no place. Just repetition of warped realities that you believe you live in.