End-Game Shadowknight: Race Differences?

[Trillian]

Hey there, so I've poked around a bit on the forums and the wiki and it seems that people settle into one of two camps. Iksar is the Best camp vs the Ogre is the Best camp, with both agreeing that people should play whatever they enjoy the most.

I understand that Iksars get an AC bonus, but I haven't seen any real calculations on how much of a bonus this is. They also have regen, which is especially nice while leveling, but it doesn't seem like it'd matter at the high-end or if you were in a group with a healer. Sure, it's nice, but it hardly seems like a 'stand out' ability, with the exception of soloing. Oh, and yes, they get Greenmist during Velious, a very nice weapon.

I also understand that Ogres get relative stun immunity, which is quite nice as well in certain situations and the ability to Slam.

My question is, do the stats really matter?

But my real question, as above, is this. In the end, with gear bonuses taken into account, does an extra 60 strength and 50 stamina really make that big of difference? I was looking at Velious-era gear and the bonuses you get from Strength and Stamina would push even an Erudite over the 200 mark and there seems to be a 'soft cap' for most stats.

[Nogdar]

Objectively, Ogre >*. Is not relative immunity, it's just constant as long as you're facing the mob. It's a huge advantage, honestly, and the stats do matter and Ogres get the best. Trolls get great stats and regen and access to plate so way better than iksars too, atm. The only reason to go iksar over troll is for greenmist, and style preference.

My advice is always to just play what you think looks coolest/is most fun. But if you're into min max, my opinion is Ogre>Troll>Rest

[Trillian]

So do stats never hit a soft cap? It's just that looking at certain combinations of gear, at Velious release at least, you're going to have over 200 in Strength and Constitution even as an Erudite.

[Nogdar]

You'll be stat capped in Velious for sure from what I hear, and Iksars lose their major inconvenient in Velious. If you're looking at Velious, it's indeed more of a tie between ogres and iksars, if you account for the natural AC bonus and Greenmist :)

Remember though that having higher stats gives a much larger freedom of gearing letting you wear more resists, HPs etc. than being forced to focus on STA gear.

Just follow the best advice: play what you think is cooler :p At the end of the day, everything's viable.

[BlkCamel]

Its between Ogre and Troll. You have to ask yourself. Do you want to do crazy solo stuff, or do you want to tank for group? If you want to solo crazy stuff go Troll, if you want to tank for raid/highest end groups go Ogre.

[Peon25]

If you want to stand there scratching your ass and looking like a total retard, Ogre is the right choice for you! =)

[Iphice]

For min/max race choice its always any class that can be an ogre is best on an ogre. Frontal stun immunity is just too strong, and they have the best stats.

Other than that, most races come out pretty close near the end of the game so play whatever you think is coolest/most fun.

[Tecmos Deception]

Imo it isn't that ogre's racial trait is so incredibly strong ... it's that it cannot be duplicated. It is always that one thing, even if it is just a relatively minor thing, that ogres will have that no other race ever will.

[Daldaen]

No race will ever have Iksar AC/Regen though.

Standing in equal gear, Iksar will have better defensive stats in max gear compared to an Ogre.

However there are few times when that makes a difference. Feign Death getting stunned out and you dying on the other hand, may occur more often.

[Brut]

Not sure if the ikky AC bonus actually does anything, was some debate about it in one the oomphzillion other threads regarding this. Noidea if Greenmist is going in, but prty sure Velious has multiple better ratio SK weapons than 18/22 anyway. Guess there's the regen, which scales into a permanent fungi or something at 60, but when talking endgame regen doesn't do much but reduce downtime slightly.

Ogre SK caps Str and hits somewhere near 200sta endgame Kunark already. Velious both oughta be capped unbuffed, dex nearly capped, agi lingering around the 120s region. 60str/50sta is crazy huge bytheway, majority of the stats among races are around the same numbers, so that ogre advantage is pretty immense. Basically higher str/sta means you can work your gear pieces on other stuff while those ikky SKs are sporting stamina earrings and str rings.

Front stun immunity biggest deal anyways. Played troll SK on red for a while, just felt awkward - fighting single mob 1v1 had to time spells around bashes. As ogre when you get 2-3 mobs on you you just cast FD and channel it no problems, while troll would apparently have to run away to get enough distance to cast it before they come bash interrupt. /cringe

[Tecmos Deception]

Not gonna lie. When I back my ogre SK into a corner and cast with impunity... it's sweet. I don't think it is an overpowering racial feature, but it is pretty fucking cool nonetheless. AC and regen, or regen and ugly as fuck, there's something to be said for those things also. But ogres, man. Ogres! Especially shrink potion ogres.

[Nogdar]

For min/max race choice its always any class that can be an ogre is best on an ogre. Frontal stun immunity is just too strong, and they have the best stats.

While this might be true for many people, I wouldn't be so categorical tbh. In my personal opinion, it's a no-brainer for SK and WAR, but Trolls or iksars (cept no JBB!) arguably make as-good if not better shamans, since regen is a fucking huge deal when you can canni. It's more like the best solo shaman is Ogre, because you need to get those spells off uninterrumpted, but the best group shaman is troll, since you shouldn't be getting hit until you slow and once you did it's all good... Then that s true for soloing too... Honestly trolls arguably are better shammies :)

What's for sure, like Brut pretty well summed up, is that when you've gotten used to the luxury of frontal stun immunity, it's a nightmare trying to play any other race. That, and never being encumbered. xD

[Iphice]

I still think Ogres are the better shamans because regen doesnt really matter when you are 60 with torpor. Sure, while leveling trolls are prob better for groups but I think that is kind of a small factor overall. At high levels while grouping or soloing difficult mobs you are going to get some resists and are going to pull aggro sometimes and have a mob/mobs beating your face down. In these situations, being an ogre really helps b/c you dont have to worry about bash timings interrupting your spells.

[Lojik]

I still think Ogres are the better shamans because regen doesnt really matter when you are 60 with torpor. Sure, while leveling trolls are prob better for groups but I think that is kind of a small factor overall. At high levels while grouping or soloing difficult mobs you are going to get some resists and are going to pull aggro sometimes and have a mob/mobs beating your face down. In these situations, being an ogre really helps b/c you dont have to worry about bash timings interrupting your spells.

Lol did you even get Zizz torpor yet?

[Iphice]

Lol did you even get Zizz torpor yet?

YES!! What kind of person do you think I am!? :P

[Trillian]

Well, I'm fairly certain that I'm going with an Erudite Shadowknight. Any advice? I read that it can be difficult to get out of the starting zone due to the location of the port.

[Nogdar]

Any advice err.. DON'T! Haha j/k.

Just good luck man :) Not an easy combo but good looking for sure :)

[kaev]

Not sure if the ikky AC bonus actually does anything, was some debate about it in one the oomphzillion other threads regarding this. Noidea if Greenmist is going in, but prty sure Velious has multiple better ratio SK weapons than 18/22 anyway. Guess there's the regen, which scales into a permanent fungi or something at 60, but when talking endgame regen doesn't do much but reduce downtime slightly.

Ogre SK caps Str and hits somewhere near 200sta endgame Kunark already. Velious both oughta be capped unbuffed, dex nearly capped, agi lingering around the 120s region. 60str/50sta is crazy huge bytheway, majority of the stats among races are around the same numbers, so that ogre advantage is pretty immense. Basically higher str/sta means you can work your gear pieces on other stuff while those ikky SKs are sporting stamina earrings and str rings.

Front stun immunity biggest deal anyways. Played troll SK on red for a while, just felt awkward - fighting single mob 1v1 had to time spells around bashes. As ogre when you get 2-3 mobs on you you just cast FD and channel it no problems, while troll would apparently have to run away to get enough distance to cast it before they come bash interrupt. /cringe

I'm curious about this, not having played an Ogre on p99. On live the immunity was to frontal melee stun, but the bash would still cause an instant interrupt if the mob landed it mid-cast. Is that not true on p99?

[Brut]

No it didn't. I played an ogre shm on live since january 2000, getting that Gate off in a corner while 10 mobs wailed on you was the best thing about the race.

[Daldaen]

I'm curious about this, not having played an Ogre on p99. On live the immunity was to frontal melee stun, but the bash would still cause an instant interrupt if the mob landed it mid-cast. Is that not true on p99?

There are other references that allude to this. For example stuns would interrupt Lady Vox CH, though it wouldn't actually stun her. Just break the cast. I thought that's how it worked as well.