Bard's AOE Snare

[Daldaen]

Bard's level 54 PBAE snare (Selo's Assonant Strane) should randomly break, similar to a charm or more obviously a root. Evidence:

Thott's Musing on Bards (http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/retune.php)

Bard snares where changed a year or two ago to match all other snare effects, meaning they no longer would break randomly, but would last the full duration. Even with this change, bard snare effects are the least reliable of them all, because the snare has to be reapplied every 12 seconds. Random snare breaks happen when a mob resists the snare effect that's active, for bards, this is always true: if the mob resists the reapplication of the song, it will break snare.

The level 54 snare, Selo's Assonant Strane, was missed when this change was done. It still breaks randomly, giving it a double penalty where other classes have none at all. I was told it would be fixed, but since then, the person that said that has moved on to another department/job. I can only assume this was lost in the shuffle.

Pretty sure it doesn't work like this currently and it should. Because classic.

[Daldaen]

More Evidence, October 2000 (https://web.archive.org/web/20020613101829/http://eqsongs.com/NewsArchive/Oct2000.htm)

* Selo’s Assonaint Strane (54) – An AE slow song intended to be upgrade to level 20 AE slow song. The problem: Instrument has no effect on 54 song, resulting in a 20% slow versus 35% from level 20 song.
[Wrinn, Gordon] -- I'll ask testing to check instrument effectiveness.

In summary, this song should:


Drop randomly based off a resist check similar to roots.
Not be modified by stringed instruments or epic. The snare and slow should be a static amount.

[zanderklocke]

They only mention the slow aspect in that quote directly above and not the snare portion of the song. Perhaps only the slow portions is not affected by strings or epic?

Can we find any info related to them testing instrument effectiveness related to the song or later patch notes regarding the snare or slow component?

[Daldaen]

I've looked and if it was fixed at a later date, it went unmentioned in patch notes and on their website.

Though it wouldn't be the first bard song where 1 part is modified and 1 part isn't (see Cantata where HP regen is modded and Mana isn't)

But I assumed both were unmodded since it's pretty easy to see them slow down physically with Runspeed, and then see that a stringed instrument doesn't change that. As compared to judging the melee speed of a mob.

[zanderklocke]

https://web.archive.org/web/20010208234003/http://eqsongs.com/Songs/song54a.htm

This page's last update, shortly after Velious is released.
Update: 01/25/2001 08:27:28

"SELO's ASSONAIT STRANE

Level: 54

Effect: ?

Skill: String

Target: ?

Location: Firiona Vie

Does not stack with: ?

Taunt: ?

Quantified: ?

Analysis by Ziann DeZane <Divine Vengence>, Terris-Thule server

Comments: Great song. One of the best over 50 IMO. I use this often during pulls when grouped with an enchanter. With a lute it slows the movement of the mobs to a slow walk allowing easy mezzing and staggering. It does prevent slows/snares (unless the slower is level 60 I believe, <- theory)."

Lute should still have an effect on the song's snare component.

[Tecmos Deception]

More Evidence, October 2000 (https://web.archive.org/web/20020613101829/http://eqsongs.com/NewsArchive/Oct2000.htm)



In summary, this song should:


Drop randomly based off a resist check similar to roots.
Not be modified by stringed instruments or epic. The snare and slow should be a static amount.


It doesn't sound like it should function like a root break, at least not according to the source in your original post. That post specifies "if the mob resists the reapplication of the song, it will break snare." That makes it sound like only when a mob has already been snared and then it resists a subsequent snare application attempt while it is already snared... THEN the original snare will wear off, not that it randomly drops because of some hidden resist check the way that a root often will on p99 right now.

[Daldaen]

Sounds like it was fixed in early Velious with the instrument mod. Time to see what patches occurred in that range.

And I don't know how you're reading it that way Tecmos. What he is saying is that due to 12s, the snare is breaking because resists allow minimal time to get another cast in.

The bolded part in the quote explicitly states it breaks randomly.

[Exmo]

It doesn't sound like it should function like a root break, at least not according to the source in your original post. That post specifies "if the mob resists the reapplication of the song, it will break snare." That makes it sound like only when a mob has already been snared and then it resists a subsequent snare application attempt while it is already snared... THEN the original snare will wear off, not that it randomly drops because of some hidden resist check the way that a root often will on p99 right now.

This. Resisting a re-application risks hitting the 12 second duration.

[Tecmos Deception]

And I don't know how you're reading it that way Tecmos. What he is saying is that due to 12s, the snare is breaking because resists allow minimal time to get another cast in.

The bolded part in the quote explicitly states it breaks randomly.

He uses the word randomly, but he doesn't actually mean that at an entirely arbitrary point in time during the duration of the snare, it will wear off.

"Random snare breaks happen when a mob resists the snare effect that's active, for bards, this is always true: if the mob resists the reapplication of the song, it will break snare.

The level 54 snare, Selo's Assonant Strane, was missed when this change was done. It still breaks randomly, giving it a double penalty where other classes have none at all. I was told it would be fixed, but since then, the person that said that has moved on to another department/job. I can only assume this was lost in the shuffle."


You just focused on the ONE time the word "randomly" was used without the context of this guy giving "random snare breaks" a specific defintion.


This. Resisting a re-application risks hitting the 12 second duration.

I also didn't get this from that quote. It doesn't say that when the song is resisted, it then wears off before you can try to stick it again. It DOES say if the song is resisted, the existing snare breaks. It says it like the resist causes the break, because of some weird coding thing that later was fixed.

[Daldaen]

I still think that "if the mob resists the reapplication of the song, it will break snare." refers to the short duration of the song and the inability to refresh it in time.

[zanderklocke]

I kind of interpret and imagine the break being at a tick of the song. Perhaps the song does a resist check on each tick since bard songs are 3 ticks?

[Torven]

I'm just sorry I didn't know this kind of bard kiting was going on here before the Al'Kabor shutdown or I'd have made videos proving it didn't work.

Part of the problem is that mobs 'ball up' much, much tighter here than they ever did back then. Also bard songs aggro way too much here. P99 so EZ-mode.

[wimlin]

I'm just sorry I didn't know this kind of bard kiting was going on here before the Al'Kabor shutdown or I'd have made videos proving it didn't work.

Part of the problem is that mobs 'ball up' much, much tighter here than they ever did back then. Also bard songs aggro way too much here. P99 so EZ-mode.

Would really love to see this fixed because I never saw bard AE kiting entire zones in classic the way they do here. Its annoying 90% of your server population to benefit a very small portion of players who decide its cool to take entire zones of mobs and kite them around for 30 minutes while everyone else sits around twiddling their thumbs waiting on respawns. This explains why it never happened on classic servers, because clearly however bards are working here is not what they were like on Classic.

[Teako]

Had a 60 bard in velious era classic.. 100% PBAE kited Uthork's with a wizard friend of mine to make mad lewts... It was effected by lute, and the "randomly breaking snares" aspect of his post is that it would over-write existing snare effects. (Snare, ensnare, wizard snare, lower level bard snare, etc)

Definitely worked in kunark era, aswell.. Though I didn't have a partner to do it with.


Oh, and PS - Mob "balling" as you put it, is 100% definitely classic. If anything, the mob movement speeds on this server are wonky as hell.. Tigers magically faster than jboots? Rhinos faster than other mobs for no reason? Drolv hitbox being twice the size to hit you than you to hit them? Naw trick.

Anyway, this is working as intended until Luclin era when the song's threat component was significantly dropped... Which /should/ never happen here, since it's beyond the scope of the timeline.

[jooo]

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