PvP pnp policy clarification please (GMs, devs, guides?)

[Softcore PK]

Gonna keep this short.

1. Fearing pets in dangerous dungeons, etc.
2. Fearing NPCs pvp targets are engaged with in dangerous dungeons, etc.
3. Fearing NPCs near pvp targets (not engaged) in dangerous dungeons, etc.

Kosher? From where I'm sitting it looks like training/intentional xp loss.

A heartfelt thank you in advance to the staff! We try not to let you go completely unappreciated :)

[HippoNipple]

I like the fearing of the pet play, because the pet owner can do something about that, but running up and fearing a mob sounds pretty shitty.

[Softcore PK]

I like the fearing of the pet play, because the pet owner can do something about that, but running up and fearing a mob sounds pretty shitty.

Pet owner can do something, but if they don't notice soon enough/aren't fast enough the result is still a train and probably xp loss.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[R Flair]

Fearing a pet is pet owner responsibility. Fearing a mob someone is fighting is their problem as well. If someone just fears a mob in a dungeon near other players creating a train, thats training and great wrath should fall upon their anus.

[Xer0]

Pet owner can do something, but if they don't notice soon enough/aren't fast enough the result is still a train and probably xp loss.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Feels like if you aren't quick enough to react that shouldn't be on the other person. Even so I personally think it's nice when people don't start trains, but at the same time what's a person to do? Should a cleric facetank and waste mana nuking a necro pet? or use a simple crowd control spell to his advantage, one way or the other? None of the former are really strategically sound, so I personally wouldn't find any fault in a person for the latter.

[Softcore PK]

Fear classes all have other means of CC, like root and mez. Except I guess SK if we're not counting snare, but do we really need to allow them to fear pets and FD?

[Salaryman]

Training is part of what gives depth to pvp, I would not have rolled the class I have month back, before PnP bs, if I knew this would be banned its an intergral part of EQ.
If you wanna ban trains in pvp might aswell disable monks, necros and sk because they become so much less usefull.

[Youlath]

Fear classes all have other means of CC, like root and mez. Except I guess SK if we're not counting snare, but do we really need to allow them to fear pets and FD?

clerics have fear and root, and pets still cast shit while they're rooted. fear is one million times better. just be faster at recognizing fear and dispel your pet faster or you deserve to die

[Not Salem]

fearing afk players pets is my go to strat

[Bazia]

Sirken has confirmed to me multiple times fearing mobs isn't training.

Or at least it wasn't before PnP

[LulzSect]

You better believe I am fearing a fucking pet when I engage a pet class target.

[Kergan]

Depends on one thing really, is the player fearing the mob in range of the group? If the answer is no, that isn't allowed. If the answer is yes Sirken has stated in the past that is ok if I'm not mistaken. As for pets, you have to be in range so PVP is an option and it's legit. Honestly if you can fear and you aren't fearing pets in PVP you're doing something wrong.

[Nirgon]

So someone can send a suicide pet (training everything on its way) after you in a dungeon but god help you if you fear it? Naw.

If they are in pvp range, allow it. Fearing mobs that lowbies are trying to kill? PNP VIOLATION.

[Bamz4l]

iv never NOT feared a pet in a dungeon

[no chewie dont]

Pras ct and his infinite wisdom to grant his soldiers the fear spell

[Softcore PK]

You guys bad :O

[no chewie dont]

misunderstood*

[Tassador]

Fearing of pets should always be 100% legal unless breaking Lns.

[Mac Drettj]

Fear is a tool a few classes have access to. Legit strats.

[hivemind]

Fear does not work on players and OP is wanting to not *allow* the use of it on pets or mobs either? What the hell?

[Softcore PK]

Sorry to bug staff and I'm sure you're all quite busy. There's no rush ofc, but would like a bit of clarification since everyone here is saying it was okay to fear NPCs and pets BEFORE the new pnp came in.

Is it really still okay to fear NPCs like this? Not a huge deal either way because it won't happen too often, but trains are wrong imo.

[R Flair]

Training is part of what gives depth to pvp, I would not have rolled the class I have month back, before PnP bs, if I knew this would be banned its an intergral part of EQ.
If you wanna ban trains in pvp might aswell disable monks, necros and sk because they become so much less usefull.

This is all kinds of dumb. Theres always ez ways to make everyones life miserable in an mmo. If we take it upon ourselves to capitalize on each of these nuances at every opportunity, no one would play games like EverQuest (may also account for your lack of RL friends). Blatant training has always been punishable by suspensions if not bans, though it has seldom been so stringently enforced.

Theres plenty of more honorable ways to defeat your opponents without having to wonder if its ok. Sure you should be able to fear peoples pets, or put them in a situation where they are liable to die or train themselves, but training players instead of engaging them in pvp is pansy shit that Rick Flair does not approve of.

[Derubael]

Fearing of a pet, OOR of it's master: Not allowed (or even possible?)
Fearing of a pet, in range of it's master: Allowed
Fearing of an NPC someone is fighting, player OOR of caster: Not allowed
Fearing of an NPC someone is fighting, player in range of caster: Allowed*
Fearing NPC's near PvP targets: Not allowed. I would say this is OK if you intend to engage the mob, but who opens with Fear? Just don't do it. If you train someone you might get b& b&.

As always, all other forms of training are against the rules.

*Be aware that if you're going to fear a mob someone is fighting, you are responsible for the trains that mob brings. So if you fear someones target in Seb and it goes tearing off and brings back 50 friends, that's your train and you could be subject to disciplinary action. And don't /petition to the staff when your opponent gates out and drops that train right on top of you.

If a pet draws a train after being feared, that's no ones fault. The reason why a feared pet bringing a train being OK, while a feared npc bringing one is NOT, is because when you have a pet up you are assuming a certain amount of risk while someone else is in the area. The same could be said for fighting NPC's, of course, but where fighting an NPC is a fundamental and necessary part of the game, using a pet is not. Use them when others are around at your own risk.

Please note that the above statement does not mean it is "ok" to train with pets - it's only provided here under a very specific set of circumstances. Don't go fearing your guildies' pets to drop a train on another guild and then get mad when you reference this post and get raid suspended anyway. I doubt this disclaimer needs to be here but I'd rather not take any chances.

Training is part of what gives depth to pvp, I would not have rolled the class I have month back, before PnP bs, if I knew this would be banned its an intergral part of EQ.
If you wanna ban trains in pvp might aswell disable monks, necros and sk because they become so much less usefull.

We had rules against training prior to the PnP going in. And with the exception of Necros, the classes you listed are already at the top of the PvP food chain without needing to train. So, yes, we do want to ban for trains, and always have. Don't do it.

[Bazia]

Not to be a douche or anything but the old policy was definitely that fearing NPCs was allowed even if they created trains and the person didn't have to be in range.

Pretty ridiculous how long that was allowed to happen.

[Mac Drettj]

Fearing of an NPC someone is fighting, player in range of caster: Allowed*

- but the fear-er is going to get banned for training? I don't get it...

It's the responsibility of the pet owner to dispell the fear or 'pet go away' on his pet. Plain and simple.

[Azure]

Fearing a mob to intentionally cause exp loss is still intentionally causing exp loss. Can it happen, does it happen. Yes.

But doing it because your OOR and mad, or bad and trying to cause exp loss is a violation of the PnP. If your going to at least try to seriously kill a player and YT them. Sure Fear mobs away.

But don't be a fucking slathar and fear mobs while levid up on the top of CoM with every intention of feighning off the agro after the players are trained/zone. Especially if your OOR.

I mean, u can do it, but players like me will tell the whole world we think ur dumb and boring to play with.

[R Flair]

Fearing of an NPC someone is fighting, player in range of caster: Allowed*

- but the fear-er is going to get banned for training? I don't get it...

It's the responsibility of the pet owner to dispell the fear or 'pet go away' on his pet. Plain and simple.

This is correct. You cant exactly say something is OK, but then say you will punish a player because the pet owner was careless or inept. Any player with a pet that isn't ready at all times to dispel or release it while in hostile areas deserves to die.

[Clark]

iv never NOT feared a pet in a dungeon

[Softcore PK]

Thank you, Derubael.

[Not Salem]

http://i.imgur.com/judoRh1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/l5xXLEZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RorltKH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Dcdovg8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dY0bIu6.jpg

[Azure]

I feelers bad for Iccabod, guy is just trying to scrape it to 60 and everyone wants to be mean to them :(

[doughboy]

I don't think it violates the PNP to kill lowbies, but it sure isn't playing nice :P

Edit: Oh I didn't realize that this server had item loot. I think the wiki is outdated

[LulzSect]

pic related, its OP

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b5f4d1ba9b64a2022741656bb3f2e8b5/tumblr_mninajgAXO1sodo64o1_500.gif

[Softcore PK]

pic related, its OP

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b5f4d1ba9b64a2022741656bb3f2e8b5/tumblr_mninajgAXO1sodo64o1_500.gif

wtf?

[Softcore PK]

Don't be weird, Kimm.

[Tradesonred]

Fearing of a pet, OOR of it's master: Not allowed (or even possible?)
Fearing of a pet, in range of it's master: Allowed
Fearing of an NPC someone is fighting, player OOR of caster: Not allowed
Fearing of an NPC someone is fighting, player in range of caster: Allowed*
Fearing NPC's near PvP targets: Not allowed. I would say this is OK if you intend to engage the mob, but who opens with Fear? Just don't do it. If you train someone you might get b& b&.

As always, all other forms of training are against the rules.

*Be aware that if you're going to fear a mob someone is fighting, you are responsible for the trains that mob brings. So if you fear someones target in Seb and it goes tearing off and brings back 50 friends, that's your train and you could be subject to disciplinary action. And don't /petition to the staff when your opponent gates out and drops that train right on top of you.

If a pet draws a train after being feared, that's no ones fault. The reason why a feared pet bringing a train being OK, while a feared npc bringing one is NOT, is because when you have a pet up you are assuming a certain amount of risk while someone else is in the area. The same could be said for fighting NPC's, of course, but where fighting an NPC is a fundamental and necessary part of the game, using a pet is not. Use them when others are around at your own risk.

Please note that the above statement does not mean it is "ok" to train with pets - it's only provided here under a very specific set of circumstances. Don't go fearing your guildies' pets to drop a train on another guild and then get mad when you reference this post and get raid suspended anyway. I doubt this disclaimer needs to be here but I'd rather not take any chances.



We had rules against training prior to the PnP going in. And with the exception of Necros, the classes you listed are already at the top of the PvP food chain without needing to train. So, yes, we do want to ban for trains, and always have. Don't do it.

all these clarifications should be stickied and compiled on top

[Farzo]

LOL look at the /guild messages in the first pic - someone burning TMO on blue?

[Clark]

PnP not classic.

[hivemind]

PnP not classic.

This x100. Even players that have been playing here still cannot understand how LNS (or PnP) works, or worse yet--try to abuse PnP to support their anti-PK agenda and try to get notable PvPers banned from the server.

[Softcore PK]

anti-PK agenda

Who told you about The Agenda? :mad:

[hivemind]

Who told you about The Agenda? :mad:

The fact that it is a "FFA" pvp server means that it is an Anti-PK server. The two are the same thing.

[Tradesonred]

This x100. Even players that have been playing here still cannot understand how LNS (or PnP) works, or worse yet--try to abuse PnP to support their anti-PK agenda and try to get notable PvPers banned from the server.

The most damning parts to me are how hopelessly unintuitive the whole system is, and un-sandboxy. I gave up on trying to get it scrapped.

Next best thing would be to pin the clarifications as they come up, on top.