Raid Progression Idea

[Gaunja]

I've been on server for about three months. I do not raid, so this whole thing may just get me flamed, but I was bored and was thinking about it. When I talk to people or read on forums about the raid scene, all I hear are horror stories. I'm curious if there is any plan implemented regarding Velious raid mobs? I'm not positive the difficulty of some of the Velious raid mobs, but I did some research and tried to list as many raid targets (excluding Sleeper's Tomb) as possible with difficulty in mind. I added a third class of raiding for entry level. Let me know what you think. Constructive criticism only. If a mob should be moved to another class please let me know. I did this really quick and just wanted to share my idea and perhaps get help organizing it by order of difficulty. At least some accurate information in regards to difficulty. Thank you for your time and responses.

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The idea behind splitting it up like this, and adding a third class is to give the players on this server more opportunity to perhaps do some progression. With the release of Velious, this could be a realistic idea given the significant increase in raid mobs (and not to mention their jumps in difficulty). Based off my understanding of the rotations already in place, there are also some mobs that are FFA. Please also suggest what mobs should pop onto a FFA cycle ect.

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Class B (Beginners)

Fire Giants

Vox

Nagafen

Plane of Hate (Trash Mobs)

Plane of Fear (Trash Mobs)

Plane of Sky (Trash Mobs)

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Class R (Restricted)

Maestro

Chardok Royals

Gorenaire

Severilous

Venril Sathir

Cazic Thule

Talendor

Faydedar

Dracoliche

Innoruuk

Trakanon

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Class C (Competitive)

Xygoz

Silverwing

Phara Dar

Hoshkar

Druushk

Kelorek'Dar

Wuoshi

Klandicar

Sontalak

Zlandicar

Velketor

Lord Yelinak

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Class H (Hardcore)

Derakor the Vindicator

King Tormax

Dain Frostreaver IV

Avatar of War

Tunare

Statue of Rallos Zek

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NTOV

Aaryonar

Cekenar

Dagarn the Destroyer

Jorlleag

Lady Mirenilla

Lady Nevederia

Lord Feshlak

Lord Koi'Doken

Lord Kreizenn

Lord Vyemm

Sevalak

Telkorenar

Zlexak

Vulak'Aerr

[Erati]

GEO could also just sign up for Naggy/Vox and attempt them when they are ready

if you are not ready when you time comes up, ( we have a forum where all this stuff is discussed ) you can inform the others and try again at a later time

its an idea as basically you dont need a class to attempt the Planar trash and or FGs, so this way you could be working towards killing a Class R Naggy/Vox

[Supaskillz]

I only half pay attention to raid rules and rarely make raids anymore, but I am interested to see how they carry over current system to velious. Does vp remain class c only, what velious content is class c?

I doubt they add more classes as you suggest. Also right now class R has a rotation but c does not. The only Gm enforced rotation is that mobs rotate between the classes and FFA with exception of vp being only class c. People know the content so well the concept of progressing in difficulty is basically lost. Casual guilds are capable of downing most raid targets if they had the time to prep and not rush to fte.

[Tiggles]

I do not raid,

Stopped right there. We do not need any more suggestions from armchair raiders who don't have any idea how the raid scene works on this server.

[Supaskillz]

Stopped right there. We do not need any more suggestions from armchair raiders who don't have any idea how the raid scene works on this server.

I am not so sure the term "armchair quarterback" carries over well to video games.

[Rhambuk]

tiggles plays 10 minutes a week, his opinion is the only one that matters

[Daldaen]

Come Velious, NToV should become VP. Class C only and Class C forcer.

VP should become Class R/C/FFA

For awhile everything in Velious should be opened up. All FFA. After awhile, stuff like... Kelorek, Wuoshi, Zlandicar, Velketor, *maybe* Tormax, Yelinak, Dain and Dozekar should be put on FFA/C/R

Derakor being a 12hr spawn can remain as is I think.

Statue/AoW, Tunare, Sontalak, WToV, could remain FFA. Since most of these are out of reach for Class R Guilds. The maybes above would fall in here after too if no Class R guilds can take them out.

After a year or two, Class R/C/FFA it all outside of NToV.

[Splorf22]

Gaunja, your entire problem is with the Kunark expansion. The problem we have been having for all these years of kunark is that when your entire force is L60 with an epic and full resist gear, a 32k raid target is just not challenging: you just need 30 people who can faceroll their keyboards. Because the number of these mobs in EQ is severely limited, we end up with jav-spamming, tracking, and poopsocking "competition".

Velious will fix all of this. The mobs have a natural progression (e.g. Vindi -> Statue -> AoW) and they are hard enough that the competition will turn to actually beating the encounters. TBH I wish they would just release Velious as is. Even an alpha version of Velious would fix the end-game climate of the server, and we have already had so many bugs that fucked up the server (e.g. invis pulling 5000 fungi tunics) that a few Velious bugs can't hurt too much.

Since Daldaen snuck in a post above me, let me give a quick response: I don't think the R/C/FFA system will be necessary in Velious. Maybe events will prove me wrong, though.

[Ravager]

I don't think the R/C/FFA system will be necessary in Velious. Maybe events will prove me wrong, though.

Time will tell on that, but if history on this server is any indication, one should never underestimate the power of the neckbeard.

[Daldaen]

Time will tell on that, but if history on this server is any indication, one should never underestimate the power of the neckbeard.

This is my thought.

Loraen you know well enough how many toons the Class C guilds have. They will still leave 1-2 toons for poopsocking the valuable Kunark targets. They can already do them with their 4-5th Alts. So getting Velious gear isn't really even necessary.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Stopped right there. We do not need any more suggestions from armchair raiders who don't have any idea how the raid scene works on this server.

Quickfingers (30)0% (60)11% (90)15% 07/04/11 04/07/14

All I'm saying is, do you even raid tiggles :3

[Gaunja]

Thank you for productive info. Was mostly bored at my desk thinking about it. I appreciate it sirs

[Erati]

I would like to see the Class C instant 'upgrade' removed from VP with Velious

I dont mean to put it on a FFA/C/R rotation but I would like to see it not flag your guild for Class C upon slaying one of the VP dragons

hopefully this will be considered

[Cecily]

I am not so sure the term "armchair quarterback" carries over well to video games.

The term is armchair philosopher and it carries over pretty well in this thread.

[SamwiseRed]

armchair raider tiggles needs to back away from this thread.

[Tiggles]

Quickfingers (30)0% (60)11% (90)15% 07/04/11 04/07/14

All I'm saying is, do you even raid tiggles :3

I'm on sabbatical because It's hard to stay motivated when I geared out all my characters 2 years ago when you where farming seb and whoring out your account info to everyone in your guild. I'll be back for velious along with all the rest of the old TMO that burnt out.

All I'm saying is that unless your in TMO and to a lesser extent IB you should have no say in the raid scene because you are insignificant and/or bad.

[Tiggles]

I would like to see the Class C instant 'upgrade' removed from VP with Velious

I dont mean to put it on a FFA/C/R rotation but I would like to see it not flag your guild for Class C upon slaying one of the VP dragons

hopefully this will be considered


i see youre having that problem again where u just skip over what the other guy said and went back to smashing buttons on your keyboard,




Dearest Chest, if you do not want restrictions on you, then you should not be in the Restricted Class.

<3
Sirks


There you have it, you are in the restricted class, you should not have the right to the same content as the competitive class. The GMs have already expressed disdain for your kind because they wanted Class R to be a way for guilds to gear up to try and compete and all you guys ever do is rotate mobs and cry for more hand outs.

[Erati]

There you have it, you are in the restricted class, you should not have the right to the same content as the competitive class. The GMs have already expressed disdain for your kind because they wanted Class R to be a way for guilds to gear up to try and compete and all you guys ever do is rotate mobs and cry for more hand outs.

not going to get into a trolling war here but when the next expansion is released it makes no sense that VP would still be the benchmark the upgrades you to Class C since that was the pinnacle of the previous expansion. Keyword is: WAS.

thats my opinion

[Tiggles]

not going to get into a trolling war here but when the next expansion is released it makes no sense that VP would still be the benchmark the upgrades you to Class C since that was the pinnacle of the previous expansion. Keyword is: WAS.

thats my opinion

We still need 2 dragons come Velious Sow swords for alts and Crowns for mains so maybe after Velious has been out for a year or two you can be allowed in but not before. If you want gear you should learn how to complete, Come velious you could clear a VP/Kunark dragon unmolested while TMO is in a 9 hour ToV clear. You don't want that though you want hand outs.

[Erati]

We still need 2 dragons come Velious Sow swords for alts and Crowns for mains so maybe after Velious has been out for a year or two you can be allowed in but not before. If you want gear you should learn how to complete, Come velious you could clear a VP/Kunark dragon unmolested while TMO is in a 9 hour ToV clear. You don't want that though you want hand outs.

last response:

VP would still be FFA IMO and you would still own PD and whats his face

but it would be nice to attempt them come Velious without being forced into Class C for any of the R guilds

/thread

[Splorf22]

Daldaen, my point was not that TMO/IB won't try to kill everything in Velious (and Kunark!) but that at least in Velious the competition is not about poopsocking and FTE spam.

[Daldaen]

If you want gear you should learn how to complete

I assume you meant compete.

But, I'd love to learn how to be competitive. Having a 3rd party program automate a target and ranged attack macro for 16 hours sounds pretty competitive.

[Daldaen]

Daldaen, my point was not that TMO/IB won't try to kill everything in Velious (and Kunark!) but that at least in Velious the competition is not about poopsocking and FTE spam.

You make a fair point. However Kunark still will be. The only thing Velious will help is more targets to distract from Kunark and devalued Kunark loot.

Kunark mobs will not be killed as quickly as they are only when Velious mobs of higher priority are being actively killed or pulled.

[Gaunja]

I assume you meant compete.

But, I'd love to learn how to be competitive. Having a 3rd party program automate a target and ranged attack macro for 16 hours sounds pretty competitive.

I know about the poopsocking camp FTE jav spam, but do people use a 3rd party program for real? Is that allowed?

[Daldaen]

That's how all outdoor FTE battles go.

People either macro keyboards or use an autofire program to hit both their /target raid_mob or F8 key, and their ranged attack/pet attack key.

It's pretty obvious. Especially for something like Faydedar. People using F8 will kill the fire gator the second it comes into range with their pet. I may or may not accidentally aggro the Iksar Master and Egress next time Fay is in window. It's really tough to avoid him you know!

[Tiggles]

That's how all outdoor FTE battles go.

People either macro keyboards or use an autofire program to hit both their /target raid_mob or F8 key, and their ranged attack/pet attack key.

It's pretty obvious. Especially for something like Faydedar. People using F8 will kill the fire gator the second it comes into range with their pet. I may or may not accidentally aggro the Iksar Master and Egress next time Fay is in window. It's really tough to avoid him you know!

No lie, if you see someone doing that TMO, IB, BDA whomever, fraps them instakilling mobs like that and send it to the GMS.

[Daldaen]

Tough to fraps it when it's legal.

Autofire macros are legal per the rules here. Since they can't stop people from using higher tech keyboards than we had in classic.

Thus why FTE battles are absolutely retarded. That and sitting on a spawn point for 16 hours straight.

1. Trackers shouldn't be able to tag raid mobs
2. Outdoor dragons should spawn randomly along their pathing nodes. Not at a fixed spawn point

If GMs enforced #1 and #2 that would make the outdoor mobs much more reasonable to "compete" on. Then it will just come down to who has 2 bards fastest in zone.

Indoor mobs will continue being stupid trainfests. Venril Sathir, and Naggy are both pretty terrible. People just derp root mobs and bum rush the boss. The other 100 people that run by the rooted mobs forget they got proxy agro even if the rooter camped out agro like a good non-trainer, and trains still happen.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Tough to fraps it when it's legal.

Autofire macros are legal per the rules here. Since they can't stop people from using higher tech keyboards than we had in classic.

The staff has commented that anything not actuated by human effort doesn't count. So, while it's an enforcement nightmare to police autofire keyboards, the staff has specifically said their use is not allowed. I suspect the .dll could be suitably modified to detect the frequency & duration of key presses to help police this.

[sanforce]

lolno

[Fountree]

The staff has commented that anything not actuated by human effort doesn't count. So, while it's an enforcement nightmare to police autofire keyboards, the staff has specifically said their use is not allowed. I suspect the .dll could be suitably modified to detect the frequency & duration of key presses to help police this.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/66/668d51c269f2c9541ab4cf960a563b183f18eb02a36223f2b8 70e24948dc167d.jpg

Didnt read most of topic but thread needed some lols injection

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I'm on sabbatical because It's hard to stay motivated when I geared out all my characters 2 years ago when you where farming seb and whoring out your account info to everyone in your guild. I'll be back for velious along with all the rest of the old TMO that burnt out.

All I'm saying is that unless your in TMO and to a lesser extent IB you should have no say in the raid scene because you are insignificant and/or bad.

Spose. I've heard some really, really, really stupid shit about how raids VP goes from people who have never been in VP. Just bizaare, really, that they'd even try to guess that kind of stuff.

[Clark]

Stopped right there. We do not need any more suggestions from armchair raiders who don't have any idea how the raid scene works on this server.

[Erati]

The staff has commented that anything not actuated by human effort doesn't count. So, while it's an enforcement nightmare to police autofire keyboards, the staff has specifically said their use is not allowed. I suspect the .dll could be suitably modified to detect the frequency & duration of key presses to help police this.

Frieza for GM 2015

this has been petitioned many times but all it takes for the spammer to 'prove' hes not doing anything wrong is to be simply at his keyboard. they seem to only police it when they are afk and the macro's/keyboards are firing. when a guide shows up and the offender is responsive there is literally nothing the guides can do besides say 'stop clicking so fast!'

fraps might get some people suspended over this but it wont solve the problem bc we have a glut of accounts here, people will just load up another unguilded toon

[Glenzig]

Frieza for GM 2015

this has been petitioned many times but all it takes for the spammer to 'prove' hes not doing anything wrong is to be simply at his keyboard. they seem to only police it when they are afk and the macro's/keyboards are firing. when a guide shows up and the offender is responsive there is literally nothing the guides can do besides say 'stop clicking so fast!'

fraps might get some people suspended over this but it wont solve the problem bc we have a glut of accounts here, people will just load up another unguilded toon

So suggestions like the ones found in this guide about using programmable keyboards are actually against server rules?
http://wiki.project1999.com/The_Techie%27s_Bard_AE_Kiting_Guide
I admit I had an uneasy feeling when I read it. Just not sure whether its an actual violation or not.

[Erati]

So suggestions like the ones found in this guide about using programmable keyboards are actually against server rules?
http://wiki.project1999.com/The_Techie%27s_Bard_AE_Kiting_Guide
I admit I had an uneasy feeling when I read it. Just not sure whether its an actual violation or not.

just feels dirty as hell

currently its not against anything that I know of, esp if you are just using it to level and kite stuff more effectively, but its a slippery slope and kind of ruins the gameplay here

i mean the game is 15 years old....its like teleporting back into the Dark Ages with Uzi's and semi-automatics

[Frieza_Prexus]

The staff has said that each single action must be the result of a single human keypress / actuation. The only exception is the use of in game macros that can tie multiple commands together like mapping sense heading to your movement keys.

Like I said, enforcement is a nightmare and it's VERY loosely enforced, but that's the rule.

[Tiggles]

I wonder if it's possible to make the server accept inputs from the client at a set max interval. If the game is accepting key presses 1000 per second reduce it to 10 per second.

[Glenzig]

The staff has said that each single action must be the result of a single human keypress / actuation. The only exception is the use of in game macros that can tie multiple commands together like mapping sense heading to your movement keys.

Like I said, enforcement is a nightmare and it's VERY loosely enforced, but that's the rule.

Hmm. That's pretty much what I thought. That being the case I think that the guide should be taken down.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I wonder if it's possible to make the server accept inputs from the client at a set max interval. If the game is accepting key presses 1000 per second reduce it to 10 per second.

Autofire will still be a huge advantage. The best idea is to change the raid rules to prevent situations where autofire rewards people so much.

That said, looking at a log from the modified .dll to detect autofire with 10,000 key presses all the exact same time interval apart would be pretty damning and lulzy when they decide to conduct the bannings.

[Daldaen]

My suggestion (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152513) would remove the need / advantage of FTE. It would retain the advantage of a fast Internet connection, but anything speed related (FTE) would. So that is unavoidable if you want to make the race/competition stay. Which is the goal.

It's difficult to block autofire as mentioned before, why not just make autofire irrelevant by taking the situation that makes it advantageous, out of the equation.

[Gaunja]

Thanks again for the input.