Group vs. Solo

[yaeger]

I browse through the forums and I see a huge non-classic trend, it's bizarre.

Everyone is concerned about picking the best solo class, about soloing to max level and then twinking and PLing out a group-oriented class. You can't go into a zone without tripping over a mage or druid.

Why this focus on solo play? This server has a good population, with lots of friendly people. Everquest's focus has always been about group interaction. Working together to camp current content.

The live server never had as many people exploiting solo classes to this extent.

Do the Devs have any intention of looking into the non-classic solo exp rates far exceeding group exp?

I remember none of these from Classic EQ. Solo play has always been a viable option, but it was never such a clear-cut advantage to grouping.

[XeldiablosX]

I love having a great community as much as they next guy but from my experience grouping has sucked thus far. I wanted to do a druid to group an heal with not solo but lower levels as a fresh start on the server grouping is non existent at least so far for me, and soloing is so dreadfully long i created a mage an it has leveled WAY faster. Just so I can get some gear for my other toons.

I might start a tank but only wanted a warrior but with a disadvantage as I hear from everyone else there is no point atm =-( These are all my experiences though so, many may differ from mine. It could be play times or just terrible luck I have no idea.

[azxten]

I remember none of these from Classic EQ. Solo play has always been a viable option, but it was never such a clear-cut advantage to grouping.

To be honest Mages are completely OP still. Their pets tank as well as an equal level and level appropriate geared tank except they can use fire pet and get a huge DS so it's the equivalent of being able to whip out a tank alt at any moment that has chloroplast and high level mage DS. Their DPS is classic but pets are supposed to get the shit kicked out of them more. A fire pet shouldn't be able to tank yellow/red cons without even getting a single heal. In classic you'd have to practically chain mage heals on fire pet if it was fighting a red not go AFK to get a drink while it solos.

If more groups were smart enough to use mage fire pet as tank using root proximity aggro to force it to tank this issue would get fixed when everyone realizes how OP it is. A mage in a group who doesn't do this is working at about 1/2 their solo ability.

Other than that everything appears to be going pretty much how classic did. Soloing as a solo class was ALWAYS better exp than grouping. Also, the emphasis on "soloing" you're describing is more just people asking questions on forum. Who is going to post a question asking which class can group the best? Actually, you do see these threads asking which class is needed at 50, etc.

There are tons of groups in game.

[azxten]

I love having a great community as much as they next guy but from my experience grouping has sucked thus far. I wanted to do a druid to group an heal with not solo but lower levels as a fresh start on the server grouping is non existent at least so far for me, and soloing is so dreadfully long i created a mage an it has leveled WAY faster. Just so I can get some gear for my other toons.

I might start a tank but only wanted a warrior but with a disadvantage as I hear from everyone else there is no point atm =-( These are all my experiences though so, many may differ from mine. It could be play times or just terrible luck I have no idea.

Low levels group in EC from 5-10, dervs from 10-14 or so, crushbone always has groups 24 hours a day for 5-14 or so. After that unrest is the hotspot until 20-25. Then you can do upper guk, MM, sol A, etc eventually getting to Sol B/LGuk. These zones basically ALWAYS have groups so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Have to remember this server doesn't have as many players as a classic server did. You aren't going to get groups in perma, runnyeye, kerra ridge, etc except on rare occasions. Be more active in putting groups together as well. I don't think I've ever wanted a group and not been able to find one or put one together by sending tells to people.. ESPECIALLY as a Druid because you can port people to the camp starting at 29.

[Infectious]

I joined and started on this serve with the idea of strictly soloin thru, gettin 50 and so on like you stated.... I completely switched that after lvl 10 when I found out how slow exp was and was pretty bored sittin there for a couple hours talkin to no one( no global ooc). I now strictly atleast group with one person mostly a full group. Thing is alot of people on this server are friendly and grouped up my exp is slightly less then if i was soloing( I play a necro). I think alot of people want the solo route cause they know no one here and once they start to play meeting people is as easy as being anti- social and not.

And for no groups is crazy... The second i log on i usually get tells if i want in on groups ( lvl 20) and goin to guk all u here is ... Group lf dps, tank and so on.

[Lucrio40]

The issue is that solo xp is better than group xp by a far and away margin. We've had several threads about it in the past but because verant hid actual xp numbers and calculations its hard to find real documentation to prove that group xp should be better than solo xp so nothing get changed.

I think its outright bullshit myself. People should be given incentives FOR grouping, not against it. If I wanted to play EQ solo, I'd play EZ server.

[Lucrio40]

Other than that everything appears to be going pretty much how classic did. Soloing as a solo class was ALWAYS better exp than grouping. Also, the emphasis on "soloing" you're describing is more just people asking questions on forum. Who is going to post a question asking which class can group the best? Actually, you do see these threads asking which class is needed at 50, etc.

There are tons of groups in game.

Totally agree with you about mage pets. This server is working with 2005 mage pets, not 1999 mage pets.

However, solo exp was only better than group exp on a per kill basis. A GOOD group should be able to at the VERY MINIMUM keep pace with a solo class, and then pass the solo player due to their down time. The downtime can be anything from getting mana to waiting on mobs to spawn. The only real exception to this rule seemed to be necro's due to their dark pact spell line.

Honestly, a warrior/2x rogue/ench/cleric/wiz group should never be out paced in exp by a solo mage.

[joran]

I get lotsa groups ... sometimes its a bad experience ... but most of the time its great ... sometimes it takes a while to find a group ... but pretty much all my xp since level 5 has been in groups... my friends list is getting pretty decent sized too so that helps... plus i dont really care what classes i group with the xp penalties dont bother me really ... raiding isnt my favorite part of the game and the journey is alot more fun than the destination imho... plus even if i could xp faster solo ... its alot more entertaining in a group ... usually...

[Troy]

Mage solo xp is insane but it would be kind of lame to nerf it at this point IMO.

[azxten]

Mage solo xp is insane but it would be kind of lame to nerf it at this point IMO.

Why? It's not classic.

Did you know that just a few weeks ago Ogre Warriors were like the fastest race/class combo in the game? Should it have been left like that since others got that advantage? There's tons of examples like that. If they never get fixed the server will never really be classic.

[Troy]

I don't know if it's classic or not. The only two classes I ever played were Paladin and Bard, both leveled extremely slowly back then and they seem the same here. Other than that, I've no clue.

It seems like my mage just kills faster than anyone else and with less downtime. If I'm fighting lower range dark blues one at a time I can kill 4 mobs every 6 minutes sustained indefinitely and this is at level 45. A full group would have to kill a mob every 15 seconds to keep up with that, which is pretty much impossible.

[Eternal-Elf]

exp sucks.....but it's not bout the grind to 50.....

It's about finding a class you really enjoy playing to 50 then having fun.

Ask a Paladin or Shadowknight....they didn't pick that class cuz the exp was great lol.

[yaeger]

The game 'should' be about picking the class you enjoy and then leveling to 50.

But the current trend is picking the fastest solo class, speeding to 50, farming money, then Twink/PL your chosen class to 50.

That's just fundamentally wrong.

[XeldiablosX]

Sad part is i got my druid to 17, and couldn't find a single group even as a backup healer ... an i played him 2 weeks. Yet I made my mage less than a week ago and hes 35 ... just solo'd it all and no need for a group. Yes I know the community is not THAT vast yet but still I have tried to find groups and put them together myself but to no avail so I stopped him for the time being to make a mage to earn gear for my other toons I do wish to level.

So I agree with Yaeger on this and yes it is wrong but that apparently is the way to go on this server so far.

[azxten]

Sad part is i got my druid to 17, and couldn't find a single group even as a backup healer ... an i played him 2 weeks. Yet I made my mage less than a week ago and hes 35 ... just solo'd it all and no need for a group. Yes I know the community is not THAT vast yet but still I have tried to find groups and put them together myself but to no avail so I stopped him for the time being to make a mage to earn gear for my other toons I do wish to level.

So I agree with Yaeger on this and yes it is wrong but that apparently is the way to go on this server so far.

You could easily find groups in unrest, oasis, and maybe even upper guk as a 17 Druid. Also, in 2 levels you get self ports so you can check more places for groups.

[Cyrik]

My fire pet requires healing against dark blues most of the time, and gets pwned by red cons. What red con mobs are you talking about where a mage can go afk and the pet can solo them??

[XeldiablosX]

I tried but nothing, more so its prolly my play times I will sit in the zone for 2 - 3 hours root rotting while i LFG an nothing especially unrest atm as well as oasis. After I get tired I just log out an get on mage to solo hehe.

[azxten]

I tried but nothing, more so its prolly my play times I will sit in the zone for 2 - 3 hours root rotting while i LFG an nothing especially unrest atm as well as oasis. After I get tired I just log out an get on mage to solo hehe.

Ah yeah if you play off peak like right now it's bad. I play now specifically so camps are open.

[Eternal-Elf]

My fire pet requires healing against dark blues most of the time, and gets pwned by red cons. What red con mobs are you talking about where a mage can go afk and the pet can solo them??

I was thinking the same thing.....my fire pet can kill a red...MAYBE if I burn my mana down on it and tank it or kite it somehow. but for the most part my abilities stop at even con if I wanna be mana efficient in any way

[Lucrio40]

My fire pet requires healing against dark blues most of the time, and gets pwned by red cons. What red con mobs are you talking about where a mage can go afk and the pet can solo them??

I got my first 1k pp off a mage who was afk xping guards. The guards were blue to him at least. He was also using a fire pet. I don't know about soloing red cons, but if a mage pet can solo blues without healing, then I'd not put it out of reach of a mage to solo yellows at least with heals and nukes.

[Eternal-Elf]

I got my first 1k pp off a mage who was afk xping guards. The guards were blue to him at least. He was also using a fire pet. I don't know about soloing red cons, but if a mage pet can solo blues without healing, then I'd not put it out of reach of a mage to solo yellows at least with heals and nukes.

How did you make 1kpp off of guards if you afk killing them? did you come UNafk to loot them ?

[Weekapaug]

Why this focus on solo play? This server has a good population, with lots of friendly people. Everquest's focus has always been about group interaction. Working together to camp current content.

The live server never had as many people exploiting solo classes to this extent.

Do the Devs have any intention of looking into the non-classic solo exp rates far exceeding group exp?

I remember none of these from Classic EQ. Solo play has always been a viable option, but it was never such a clear-cut advantage to grouping.

I can't speak for everyone but lately I've found myself soloing so much on my druid alt because group exp has tended to suck in comparison. Because there are so few warriors, "group" generally means "hybrid tank." "Hybrid" anything means 40% experience penalty. So, basicly, grouping means having to eat someone else's 40% experience penalty.

Why deal with that if you don't have to? I play a few classes and prefer grouping if I have time to sink in for a good session or if the GF is home and wants to get on and go get a group together. But if I'm not up for a long grind, which I haven't been lately due to RL stuff, I'd rather see my bar move during the short time I have to play....not crawl....So I solo my druid.

The reason this doesn't seem classic is because during the live classic era we didn't even know about the hybrid EXP penalty, beyond speculation. We do now, making it non-classic IMO (beyond being a really shitty decision for the health of grouping on the server) but it's not my server so I don't decide these things.

[Estu]

I agree with your sentiment, Yaeger, even though your post seems to be inspired in part by my post about druids and shamen. I'd like to point out that I have two characters (a cleric and a paladin) specifically for grouping. I don't know why, but everyone seems to think that all anyone does in this game is play a single character at a time: you have your main, which you level up exclusively, and then you use it to fund your alts, and so on (solo or not). Sounds boring as fuck to me. I like to have a pool of characters to choose from depending on what I feel like doing at the moment. So I might be playing my shaman solo the most, but that doesn't mean I don't hop on my cleric or paladin a good deal to group.

That being said, with the caveat that so far I've only really grouped in Crushbone and a little in Butcherblock, I've found soloing to be much faster exp. Here's what happens in a group:

Spend 5-15 minutes actually getting a full or almost-full group, or notice that Crushbone is full and log on to another character (sometimes you get a group immediately, but Crushbone gets absolutely packed at peak hours and I prefer to avoid that clusterfuck).
Get slow EXP.
Deal with people randomly leaving your group, going AFK for no apparent reason, playing badly.
Deal with trains and mob stealing.
Get considerably less money; wonder how you're going to buy your spells/gear/whatnot.

Maybe it's better at higher levels, but soloing has been in general a faster and more gratifying experience. I still like to group, but I spend most of my time soloing. I do agree that it's silly how people think they MUST TWINK THEIR CHARACTERS if they're going to play in a group. Twinking is gravy, it's not what you need to do whatsoever, with the possible exception of warriors since they have such a hard time holding aggro early on without good weapons.

[Overcast]

I browse through the forums and I see a huge non-classic trend, it's bizarre.

Everyone is concerned about picking the best solo class, about soloing to max level and then twinking and PLing out a group-oriented class. You can't go into a zone without tripping over a mage or druid.

Why this focus on solo play? This server has a good population, with lots of friendly people. Everquest's focus has always been about group interaction. Working together to camp current content.

The live server never had as many people exploiting solo classes to this extent.

Do the Devs have any intention of looking into the non-classic solo exp rates far exceeding group exp?

I remember none of these from Classic EQ. Solo play has always been a viable option, but it was never such a clear-cut advantage to grouping.

I kinda leaned on a class that could solo some - but it's a class I wanted to play and not really a primary soloer (Shaman).

I've found a few good groups over the last couple days, they are out there. No one LFMore? Then put a group together.

[Lucrio40]

How did you make 1kpp off of guards if you afk killing them? did you come UNafk to loot them ?

I wasn't the mage. I just noticed he was afk killing and saw at least 2 unlooted bodies rot. So I camped out near his pet and just started looting.

[Eternal-Elf]

I wasn't the mage. I just noticed he was afk killing and saw at least 2 unlooted bodies rot. So I camped out near his pet and just started looting.

lol bad ass way to make some easy lootz!

[XeldiablosX]

Hey thats the kinda loot Im talkin about and easy mode =p

[Elissa]

To be honest Mages are completely OP still. Their pets tank as well as an equal level and level appropriate geared tank except they can use fire pet and get a huge DS so it's the equivalent of being able to whip out a tank alt at any moment that has chloroplast and high level mage DS. Their DPS is classic but pets are supposed to get the shit kicked out of them more. A fire pet shouldn't be able to tank yellow/red cons without even getting a single heal. In classic you'd have to practically chain mage heals on fire pet if it was fighting a red not go AFK to get a drink while it solos.


Just FYI, they can't. My fire pet can't even solo a dark blue without a heal at 37 (takes at least 2, on average). If you're talking about strictly low levels, then it is a little bit easier, but to suggest "without a heal" is totally exaggerated. At level 12, my pet could perhaps solo a yellow without a heal if very lucky. It doesn't stay that way and it certainly doesn't get easier as the mage levels higher. Yellow/Reds eat my pet alive unless extremely lucky, and even when lucky, I have to burn my entire mana bar heal my pet, assuming it doesn't die while on cooldown (very common for upper cons). If I take the time to cast a nuke, it will likely die. It's simply not efficient to kill yellow/red cons at higher levels if there is a plethora of blues to kill instead.

Don't worry, Kunark is coming. We're much less "OP" then. I hardly think the state of the class now is OP at all though. Plenty of other classes can solo as well or better.

[Darenenski]

Do torch quest. Mem lvl 4 nuke, top pet heal, next best pet heal, burnout pet. Set cruise control for free xp.

[jhudson1]

I <3 grouping. It's seriously everything I've always wanted back, everything I loved about EQ classic. Grinding out EXP with a group of people you can just sit back and hang out with.

EDIT

Thank you so much Devs for doing this

[jeffd]

there are some seriously sandy vaginas in this thread.

mages can't "solo reds without heals" or "afk kill guards." give the sensationalist bullshit a rest.

[yaeger]

That's not what this thread is about. It's about discussing whether or not group and solo experience are roughly equal risk vs reward. It's also trying to discover if this is classic.

If not, what can be done to make it equal.

To use a previous example of mages, it's trying to decide at what point a mage will say "I think it would be better for me if I joined this group vs try to solo".

If that situation doesn't exist, why not? If that situation does exist, why? At what point does a group become a necessity for each and every class. At what point does each class 'balance' group vs solo, utility vs dps (for the most part it's awesome so far).

I don't want this to become a flame war, but a discussion about solo classes perhaps being overbalanced and ways to balance them out without nerfing it into obscurity.

If a class can easily achieve experience great than that of a group, that needs to be changed. The goal is that an exceptional group (constant pulls, raid geared, no downtime) will gain exp faster (even counting class penalties) than a soloer. The mantra that teamwork can achieve more.

That whole classic thing.

It seems like the same people that condemned the progression of EQ for making the live servers too easy, for trivializing content and effort are for some reason supporting the exploitation of solo classes. It doesn't make sense.

[Azazel]

Its pretty clear that mages are overpowered. This however is not in itself an issue. What the devs are concerned about is if this is classic or not.

I would disagree with them to a certain extent however. I think a significant part of the problem is the hybrid exp penalty being shared amongst the group. While this is stricly speaking classic I dont think it results in a more classic experience. From my experience it certainly makes grouping much less attractive to those classes that can solo well.

[fugazi]

Its pretty clear that mages are overpowered. This however is not in itself an issue. What the devs are concerned about is if this is classic or not.

I would disagree with them to a certain extent however. I think a significant part of the problem is the hybrid exp penalty being shared amongst the group. While this is stricly speaking classic I dont think it results in a more classic experience. From my experience it certainly makes grouping much less attractive to those classes that can solo well.

Classic my ass, just boost group xp and motivate people to stick together and unnerf hybrids somewhat :)

[odizzido]

40% shared across six people is hardly anything. Personally I don't worry about xp penalties or anything like that when forming groups. Besides, paladins/SKs can actually increase kill speed compared to a warrior due to them being able to keep agro off the casters/rogues so the 40% matters even less.

As for finding groups, you could always play two characters. The one that you want to group with, and another that can solo if you can't find/make a group.

[Estu]

As for finding groups, you could always play two characters. The one that you want to group with, and another that can solo if you can't find/make a group.

This. A thousand times this.

[Striiker]

As for finding groups, you could always play two characters. The one that you want to group with, and another that can solo if you can't find/make a group.

Yes, this is what I do. I have a character/characters I'd like to group with for playing when I can devote a lot of time and I have some classes which I play because I don't have a lot of time available or I can't find a group after a lot of trying..

[Azazel]

40% shared across six people is hardly anything

FYI - you often get more than one hybrid in a group

[VictoryARC]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but does the hybrid xp penalty stack with other hybrids in the group? Or is the highest penalty the only one applied? Just curious

[eqdruid76]

<Additional grossly exagerated point>

[Dantes]

I didn't solo at all during live because my gear sucked, but I have done some soloing here to finish off the last bubble in a level a couple times. I typically get half a blue bubble of exp per kill, and that's for a blue mob that poses almost no threat. Hell if I didn't have to sit for 20 minutes after ever 2 mobs I drop I might actually do it more often. Back when light blue mobs gave the same experience it was even better, I could kill 3-4 of those before I needed to rest.

[Shannacore]

Grouping is way more entertaining.

[nicemace]

i solo(d) in all games i play because after 12 years of playing MMO's and 16 years of online gaming... i have learnt one thing, general player bases are shit at games and are retard downies. so i play better and more efficiently on my own.

obviously ill try grouping here and there, meet some good players and then ill focus on re-grouping with them. but i much prefer doing shit on my own till i reach raid level, then join guild. i generally play games with friends too, so ill group with them more often than not.

[yaeger]

Well thanks for not insulting our community here Nicemace. But how about you add to the discussion of balance and the true-to-classic theme instead of telling us how you prefer soloing.

[nicemace]

whats there to discuss? nothing.. some people prefer soloing some people dont.

youre playing on emu server where everyone knows all the tricks in the book now, so obviously people will try to do things the best way rather than 10 years ago and EQ was 'a brave new world' when we first started.

methods change with experience.

[Harrison]

To be honest Mages are completely OP still. Their pets tank as well as an equal level and level appropriate geared tank except they can use fire pet and get a huge DS so it's the equivalent of being able to whip out a tank alt at any moment that has chloroplast and high level mage DS. Their DPS is classic but pets are supposed to get the shit kicked out of them more. A fire pet shouldn't be able to tank yellow/red cons without even getting a single heal. In classic you'd have to practically chain mage heals on fire pet if it was fighting a red not go AFK to get a drink while it solos.

If more groups were smart enough to use mage fire pet as tank using root proximity aggro to force it to tank this issue would get fixed when everyone realizes how OP it is. A mage in a group who doesn't do this is working at about 1/2 their solo ability.

Other than that everything appears to be going pretty much how classic did. Soloing as a solo class was ALWAYS better exp than grouping. Also, the emphasis on "soloing" you're describing is more just people asking questions on forum. Who is going to post a question asking which class can group the best? Actually, you do see these threads asking which class is needed at 50, etc.

There are tons of groups in game.

This is filled with gross inaccuracies. You didn't play classic, did you?

[Troy]

Part of the problem is only having to do 1 dmg to get full xp with a pet.

[Itchybottom]

Grouping is way more entertaining.

Yes, players that group provide me with a lot of entertainment as a rogue. Bad pull? Is the group near-by killing the same faction? Run next to them and tap Hide, wait a moment for the tank of the group to do some more damage, then split a single off of it! Even after the fight, the entertainment continues in /ooc.

[Troy]

Just got out of lvl 45, took about 7 hours solo. How long does it take in a group?

[Arclanz]

Agree with the op. Too many people being PL'd here with clarity,DS,regen,HP buffs. Oh, sorry, I meant "soloing."

[renegadeofunk]

Part of the problem is only having to do 1 dmg to get full xp with a pet.

Is this true? I was under the impression you had to do 51% to get xp. I know for sure that you do for charm pets (enc solo).

[Orruar]

Nice job bumping a 2 year old post. Pet xp has changed since then.

[Tecmos Deception]

Nm. Thread necro zomg.

[Tecmos Deception]

Nm. Totally missed how much of a necro this thread was.

[renegadeofunk]

Yeah I went away for a while and forgot I found the thread through searching for something else. Sorry!

[filthyphil]

I rolled a necro simply because it is all I ever played on live. I see more necros than anything on p99 and it makes me a bit sore, until I see twinks 4 levels higher than me dead at my camp. I've created a paladin alt to play when I got bored of kiting, and he has been level 8 for about a week & a half now because he can't get a group and soloing is not at all an option. On my main (now 34) I've found the best exp was soloing, it could only be beat by a group maintaining constant pulls with little to no downtime.

[Cippofra]

One of the things I like most about p99 is the ability to play one of my favorite games casually. No goals to work torwards, no frustration when I die. I dont have the time or ping to group as a monk. So I solo. Back when I made a mage we were under the 1 damage system. Now soloing as a mage is not an option. So I play the only real melee solo class (dont really consider bards melee). I absolutely agree eq is a game all about grouping, from level 5 to the end. But soloing should still be an option. Reward people for grouping, but punishing people for soloing is just a really bad idea

[Tecmos Deception]

Pretty sure a mage who gets 1/2 xp for every kill is still going to level faster than a solo monk, short of that monk being incredibly twinked. Well at least once you're up in the 45+ range.

[Estu]

Soloing a mage is absolutely an option. Just reclaim your pet once the monster is running and you'll get full EXP.

[Splorf22]

I think the problem here is that people expect EQ to be like Starcraft: log in, put up LFG, warp to well-balanced XP group within 5 minutes. Obviously you can start right away if you are solo.

Its not hard to find xp groups. My monk was in a great Nurga/Droga group last night. If you are L35, for example, you can do /who all 30 40 to find out where people are and /who all 30 40 lfg to find other people lfg. Head to the hot zones, and don't be afraid to form groups or play with 'nonstandard' class mixes. Sure it may not be optimal xp, but some xp is better than no xp and its fun to try and make something a little unorthodox work. For example, I did a warrior/enchanter 2-man group that worked ok once.

P.S. wow what a thread necro

[webrunner5]

Yeah I have really cut back on playing my Mage since the nerf, but is still faster than most classes to solo with.

But when you get past Unrest, Mistmoore etc there isn't really a lot of groups around. KC maybe. The damn Hybrid XP penality really hurts this server I think groups wise. Most of the mid level Tanks end up being SK's. Throw in a Bard, and God help you a Ranger, and you are doomed lol. :)

[Tecmos Deception]

I think the problem here is that people expect EQ to be like Starcraft: log in, put up LFG, warp to well-balanced XP group within 5 minutes. Obviously you can start right away if you are solo.

Its not hard to find xp groups. My monk was in a great Nurga/Droga group last night. If you are L35, for example, you can do /who all 30 40 to find out where people are and /who all 30 40 lfg to find other people lfg. Head to the hot zones, and don't be afraid to form groups or play with 'nonstandard' class mixes. Sure it may not be optimal xp, but some xp is better than no xp and its fun to try and make something a little unorthodox work. For example, I did a warrior/enchanter 2-man group that worked ok once.

P.S. wow what a thread necro

I don't really think anyone is arguing that there are no xp groups, or that some xp isn't better than no xp at all. But you can't help but admit that it just doesn't feel right that 4 times out of 5 a class like a cleric can go solo some undead for better xp than he would get in a group.

[Vicatin]

Were the xp penalties removed as soon as velious came out?

Any gm comments on when we would see it removed?

[Arrisard]

Were the xp penalties removed as soon as velious came out?

Any gm comments on when we would see it removed?

Roughly a month and a half after Velious comes out (January 17, 2001 patch)

[falkun]

Roughly a month and a half after Velious comes out (January 17, 2001 patch)

I sincerely hope they move it a bit faster, but at least do not drag it out according to some "relative" timeline (like how they are not implementing epic spawned mobs (Undead Bard, Venril Sathir Remains, etc.) because those are post-Velious). The exp-buff to hybrids, assuming its not too late, should greatly affect the mid-level group's access to tanks.

[Cippofra]

Soloing a mage is absolutely an option. Just reclaim your pet once the monster is running and you'll get full EXP.

At my level of 13 and income this isnt really an option.

[falkun]

13? Isn't that a perfect time for Nybright sisters? Money issues solved.

[Houdiny]

I prefer grouping opposed to soloing. I think most do. But it's not always an option. Some nights I wouldn't have to go LFG on my wiz. Some nights I would be LFG all night.

Being a solo class I had the luxury of soloing while waiting for a group. Best of both worlds. It's not really a matter of choice, it's what you are forced to do. Most people don't use the LFG function often. I don't know how many times I ran by a group that wasn't full and got an immediate invite, after sitting LFG for an hour or better.

Lot of circumstances involved. But I think most prefer a group to solo.

[Tecmos Deception]

At my level of 13 and income this isnt really an option.

Even if your pet eats half xp on every kill, you're still a better soloer than basically any other non-twink at your level.

Melee are all terrible untwinked.

Wis-casters can heal and dot and melee a bit but they won't kill half as fast as your pet does once their downtime factors in.

Necros and enchanters also have to compete with their pets for xp like you do, except that their pets are far inferior to yours so they can't just give up on full xp and let the pet do all the work... cause the pet will die. And wizards? You have as good of nukes as the wiz does, so you can just nuke down something for full xp with a bit of help from the pet and then while a wizard would be medding and earning no xp, you can be medding while your pet solos something else and you get half xp.


By the time other classes surpass your xp rate (ench charming, dru/sham root dotting, cle killing undead, melee still terrible without twinking, wiz terrible until tehy can quad, necro still competing with pet but it's not too bad), you'll be able to afford the few silver per mob to reclaim pet to get yourself full xp.


Also, kill wisps, loot GLSs, and then have more than enough money to spend a reagent per mob at level 13.

[Striiker]

Well, remember that everyone now knows all of the little secrets of the game's mechanics. The emphasis on soloing now comes from this understanding. Back when EQ launched, EVERYTHING was new. I remember accidentally walking in to Qeynos Hills from Qeynos and I ran back because it was I didn't know what was there (it was night and raining too).
Soloing on live in 1999 was challenging because nobody know how to do it well. Now, it's fairly trivial.

[Vicatin]

Well, remember that everyone now knows all of the little secrets of the game's mechanics. The emphasis on soloing now comes from this understanding. Back when EQ launched, EVERYTHING was new. I remember accidentally walking in to Qeynos Hills from Qeynos and I ran back because it was I didn't know what was there (it was night and raining too).
Soloing on live in 1999 was challenging because nobody know how to do it well. Now, it's fairly trivial.

Houdiny and I were just discussing this the other day. We both hit 50 recently and were commenting on the relative quickness to obtain it. Once you know where all the good spots are its not half bad.

Knowledge = power i reckon.

[Danth]

Old thread, but still relevant.

Vicatin: It helps leveling speed when the server has 1/4 the population that overcrowded Verant servers had, meaning the player can pull more mobs per unit of time due to less competition. Overcrowding alone may have doubled the average time to level on many servers.

I don't know that most players come here specifically to solo. I figure folks pick classes that can solo decently so as to hedge their bets. I've met relatively few people who refuse to group when asked. Having 1/4 the population means groups aren't always available, particularly during off hours.

Danth

[Houdiny]

Old thread, but still relevant.

Vicatin: It helps leveling speed when the server has 1/4 the population that overcrowded Verant servers had, meaning the player can pull more mobs per unit of time due to less competition. Overcrowding alone may have doubled the average time to level on many servers.

I don't know that most players come here specifically to solo. I figure folks pick classes that can solo decently so as to hedge their bets. I've met relatively few people who refuse to group when asked. Having 1/4 the population means groups aren't always available, particularly during off hours.

Danth

Agree with this as well. Sitting #9 on a list to get into guk just to get some exp was an exp hindrance to say the least lol

[robite234]

i love grouping in classic EQ. the community is my favorite aspect of this server. as a new returning player to EQ, i don't see a lot of guides on how to level up in group hot spots. can anyone guide me to a good guide on grouping? here's some info i've collected from this thread so far:

Level
5 - 14: Crushbone
15 - 25: Unrest
25+: Upper Guk
MM
Sol A
Sol B
Lower Guk

[SamwiseRed]

CB>Unrest>MM

at this point a little harder to find group. should be around 40. best place imo is solb but sometimes youll have to put the group together. you can also duo/trio specs in oasis/feerott or random mobs in OT.

[webrunner5]

This Thread. http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86713

Level 10: Qeynos Catacombs
Level 11: Qeynos Hills
Level 12: Blackburrow (elites)
Level 13: West Karana (bandits)
Level 14: North Karana
Level 15: East Karana
Level 16: Gorge of King Xorbb
Level 17: Runnyeye
Level 18: Highpass
Level 19: South Karana
Level 20: Lake Rathe
Level 21: Feerott
Level 22: CT
Level 23: South Ro
Level 24: Upper Guk
Level 25: WW
Level 26: Dalnir
Level 27: LOIO
Level 28: FM
Level 29: Nurga
Level 30: FV
Level 31: Unrest (hags)
Level 32: Mistmoore
Level 33: Kedge
Level 34: OT
Level 35: EJ
Level 36: TT
Level 37: Kaesora
Level 38: SolA (gnomes)
Level 39: Rathe Mountains (hill giants)
Level 40: Paw
Level 41: Oggok (guards)
Level 42: DL
Level 43: Droga
Level 44: Butcherblock (guards?)
Level 45: OoT (seafuries)
Level 46: Kithicor (undead?)
Level 47: Everfrost (ice giants)
Level 48: Permafrost (animals)
Level 49: Hole
Level 50: Lower Guk
Level 51: SolB
Level 52: CoM (upper)
Level 53: BW
Level 54: Skyfire
Level 55: TD Raptors
Level 56: KC
Level 57: Chardok
Level 58: Sebilis

Orruar's list and Idea. It is pretty much right on. The idea of the thread was just one area per level. But you could stay for several levels in each area. Some as much as 10 levels I would guess from my experiences.

[Vladesch]

5 - 14: Crushbone

Just a note that this will kill off your dark elf warrior faction.

[Cippofra]

Not entirely sure why this thread was revived but ok. I don't understand why everyone on this servers wants to make it so people who play outside of prime time, have bad internet connections, or dont have the time to group not able to play the game at all. Why do you have an inherent right to enjoy the game but I dont? Plus, right now I'm playing a shaman. Theres no way I'm going to stare at a screen for hours at a time and smash the heal button. Soloing as a shaman is more fun. I'm a shaman, not a healer. My enjoyment in this game comes from the idea that I will eventually reach a level where grouping is fun, has meaning, and doesn't end up in disastrous wipes with negative experience after hours of screwing around.

[vageta31]

I'm not sure what game OP was playing, but the Everquest I played at launch had a ton of solo players. I solo'd my first Druid to 50 before PoF opened up and it wasn't even my first character and I know a ton of others were doing it too because we always fought for the good spots and it wasn't the same people. Maybe due to the large amount of players you simply didn't notice the amount of people soloing but I assure you they were there in large numbers. If you were always grouped then most likely you simply wouldn't have took notice.

Why else do you think there were so many Druids, Necros and Shamans running around in classic?

[Snagglepuss]

I'm not sure what game OP was playing, but the Everquest I played at launch had a ton of solo players. I solo'd my first Druid to 50 before PoF opened up and it wasn't even my first character and I know a ton of others were doing it too because we always fought for the good spots and it wasn't the same people. Maybe due to the large amount of players you simply didn't notice the amount of people soloing but I assure you they were there in large numbers. If you were always grouped then most likely you simply wouldn't have took notice.

Why else do you think there were so many Druids, Necros and Shamans running around in classic?

I agree. I think for this server it's so much more obvious not only because we better understand game mechanics, but also, it's just such a larger portion of the population. People have always solo'd.

[Doors]

Do the Devs have any intention of looking into the non-classic solo exp rates far exceeding group exp?


Pet nerfs, 50% damage nerf, dot nerfs. Get a clue before complaining. Calling caster classes that can solo "exploiting" just because they can solo is retarded.

[Tecmos Deception]

Pet nerfs, 50% damage nerf, dot nerfs. Get a clue before complaining. Calling caster classes that can solo "exploiting" just because they can solo is retarded.

Calling out a dude on a 2.5-year-old post? Niiicce.

[Recusco]

As someone that made a CLR first and tried grouping, its not going well. At all.

[stormlord]

I think the problem here is that people expect EQ to be like Starcraft: log in, put up LFG, warp to well-balanced XP group within 5 minutes. Obviously you can start right away if you are solo.

Its not hard to find xp groups. My monk was in a great Nurga/Droga group last night. If you are L35, for example, you can do /who all 30 40 to find out where people are and /who all 30 40 lfg to find other people lfg. Head to the hot zones, and don't be afraid to form groups or play with 'nonstandard' class mixes. Sure it may not be optimal xp, but some xp is better than no xp and its fun to try and make something a little unorthodox work. For example, I did a warrior/enchanter 2-man group that worked ok once.

P.S. wow what a thread necro
I agree somewhat. This is mostly how I approach the game.

But I'll admit that I think it would be better with a new group experience system more similar to what it's on the live progression server. The first time i was exposed to this sort of experience system was when I was paying Shadowbane. So I was interested in it before they added it to the progression server. Basically, the experience you get for killing something is the same whether you're solo or group. So if you get 100 experience for a kill while soloing you'll get 100 for the same kill while in a group. However, since you can have up to 6 people, you can potentially earn up to 6x experience. The good thing is that no matter who you invite, they'll be able to add something and thus speed up the process. The system doesn't discriminate. The only problem is that it heavily favors groupers and makes soloers feel left out. It can also lead to PLing if not done right. I don't know exactly how they resolved all of hte probems on the live progression server. I myself still haven't considered all of the potential problems with it. But I"m sure with enough thought and foresight it could be very functional.

I'm fine with the experience penalties. I play a lot hybrids.

People have to realize that p1999 is top heavy. It has been top heavy for a while. There're still lots of new players, but you have to keep in mind that it's made worse because p1999 only has 300-1000 players at any single moment, while live had 1500-2500. For these reasons and potentially others, this causes a lot of players to select solo-classes because they can't find groups. And this is even more pronounced now than it might have been in the classic era because people have more knowledge about the game. It leads to hybrid groups.

I played a ranger during live. Created a couple. One in 1999 and one in 2001. I never looked at my experience bar. Played a stupid length of time and was still low level but never cared because it was truly amazing. I joined lots of different groups and soloed some too. Generally, soloing is effective because you don't have to group with dumb and deal with their problems and you keep more money/items/etc. But soloing gets boring pretty quick because it's so exact and there's a lack of communication. In a group there's a lot more surprises and more talking going on. Makes it a lot more interesting. However, sometimes the group wastes tons of time forming or reforming or making up for lost time because someone did something real real stupid.

I don't have a class on p1999 that's over 24. The vast majority aren't over 17. In total, I've probably played for a couple dozen days (or a bit more) on /played since I arrived here in late 2009. I'm not playing right now and haven't for almost a year. I love the -low- levels in EQ. Corpse runs are quick. I like to help the new players. I like being around the cities and doing the low level quests and learning the lore. I have group-based and solo-based alts. If I can't find a group on one or another I'll log on the soloer. There're always things to do. Twinking isn't something I did. I wanted to see the world from a new player perspective and group like that. And btw the results of all of it were that there're a surprising number of low level quests to do. I found that a lot of new players didn't know about them. I think that this kind of hurts things somewhat. But you have to keep in mind that classic eq, while it had a lot of quests, many of them were limited by spawn rates and/or congestion and/or other factors. If you were the only one doing it it could be very useful. And then there was probably the biggest problem that finding information for quest meant using allahkazam or asking in chat or being hte luckiest player alive. Generally, quests in classic eq aren't the intuitive sort... the items you need can be in all sorts of crazy out of the way places. With this in mind, the experience/item rewards are often too low.

Classic EQ is a beautiful game. I was just in the EQ1 and EQ2 forums and I have to say that those games are a total wreck. They're mudflated profit-driven disasters. I feel so much sorrow for them. I played on live until early 2010 so I'm not speaking from ignorance. Lots of players still play them and like them, but from my perspective they're intolerable. The tricks that the company plays, the sloppiness, the feel of everything, is dirty. Classic EQ is not a perfect game by any means. If I could remake it I'd change a lot. But there're a lot of things I do like. And classic EQ was a different game because it lacked all the instances and changes made to the game later on. Most of those changes were a response to the top-heaviness, but some were also a response to WoW and the easy-mode crowd of players. The game just evolved in a direction that doesn't interest me.

I'd say that the mudflation in old(er) games is the biggest turn off for me. I mean, if EQ2 had a progression server, I'd be a #%!! of a lot more interested. But they're not interested in making something like that. And with all the changes they've made to the game, I doubt they could do any kind of rollback.

I'll also admit there's some mudflation even in p1999. Kunark added some. Velious will too. But the distance between expansions is so great in classic and p1999 moves so slowly it's less severe. And there's the additional factor that without 10+ expansions, the old zones are still useful and you don't outlevel as fast.

In the end, the non-profit nature of p1999 is I think its most awesome feature.

[robite234]

This Thread. http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86713

Orruar's list and Idea. It is pretty much right on. The idea of the thread was just one area per level. But you could stay for several levels in each area. Some as much as 10 levels I would guess from my experiences.

thanks for the info, it helps but the problem is a new player can't afford all the frequent travel.

[formallydickman]

thanks for the info, it helps but the problem is a new player can't afford all the frequent travel.

Generally speaking if you tip what you can tip, folks won't be upset.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Don't worry all, I got this one. I bookmarked this thread, and I'll make sure to resurrect it by commenting on sometime late 2015. So, you can stop now.

[Resheph]

Why this focus on solo play? This server has a good population, with lots of friendly people. Everquest's focus has always been about group interaction. Working together to camp current content.

I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself. I think a lot of first-timers (or returning vets new to Project 1999) want a solo class so they can level one up and finance their alts. While the server has a good community and people are active, lower level zones will be less populated than higher level ones. It was true back in the day, it's true now on pretty much all MMOs.

[stormlord]

One of the problem is twinkies, err twinkers. They suit up in some fancy gear and then they go on a killing spree. They see a newbie and wonder if they should group with them. But then the thought is smashed as they contemplate that in this era each group member gives you 2% extra experience, for a maximum of 10%. However, this assumes that the other group member(s) are contributing to a kill equally. This means that if you make a 2-person group with somebody that's not a twink (and/or are unfamiliar with the game since they're a new player) that if they're only 33% of your output that the 2% experience bonus is destroyed by the relative difference in output. So instead of earning 2% extra, you're probably losing something on the order of 32% of your potential if the other person is only contributing 33% of your output. That's like not getting a 47% runspeed buff. So if you group w/ them you'll be thinking about that 47% gain you get be getting alone.

On p1999, I grouped my alts with new players without twinking. But when I was on live there were many times that I would twink an alt and ignore new players and go my own way. Sometimes I'd buff them.

Here's how I understand to do the math:

Solo (experience is not split):
kill - 100 experience
kill - 100 experience
total = 200 experience

2-person Group (other player is 1/3 of your output):
kill - 51
kill - 51
kill - 51
kill - 51
total = 135.66 (.665 x 204)

If all things are equal then both cases require the same amount of time. This means the other person is exactly the same output and you kill things twice as fast. In this case, you only kill at 1.33x, not 2x!

If you were solo you'd be at 200, not 135.66. 200/135.66 = 1.47. 1.47x!

Ya, the server is top heavy, but they make lots of twinks. Just wanted to address why that's not always helpful to new players. The more important thing is that servers tend to attract less players as they age. This is due to numerous factors, but the most important are that software ages and becomes too expensive to renovate effectively and that the companies developing the game carry with them a momentum that limits their ability to shift to changing trends. Basically, it becomes easier to start a new game than to improve an old one. Along with mudflation - increasing numbers of low level zones, devalued content, etc - this can make the low levels feel empty and shoddy. In this sense, some of the best gaming is found in fresh new games, not old ones.

[Kope]

One of the problem is twinkies, err twinkers. They suit up in some fancy gear and then they go on a killing spree. They see a newbie and wonder if they should group with them. But then the thought is smashed as they contemplate that in this era each group member gives you 2% extra experience, for a maximum of 10%. However, this assumes that the other group member(s) are contributing to a kill equally. This means that if you make a 2-person group with somebody that's not a twink (and/or are unfamiliar with the game since they're a new player) that if they're only 33% of your output that the 2% experience bonus is destroyed by the relative difference in output. So instead of earning 2% extra, you're probably losing something on the order of 32% of your potential if the other person is only contributing 33% of your output. That's like not getting a 47% runspeed buff. So if you group w/ them you'll be thinking about that 47% gain you get be getting alone.

I can't speak for anyone else but when I make alts (I have a lot of them actually...) I refuse to solo as soon as I can get consistent groups. It doesn't matter how geared I've had my twink, (quite twinked, not super uber though) or how much more uber exp I can get while soloing, I always prefer to group and have good times and memories with the other players. I've leveled a bard, monk, enchanter to 50+, and have twink pally, necro, shaman, ranger that I only group with.

This is an MMO, if I wanted to solo I'd go play a console RPG.

The bad side of this is when I'm on my bard and I get tells (daily) of other bards asking me to teach them how to AoE kite and I just say "I never learned, I only grouped." I get some funny responses :D

[stormlord]

I can't speak for anyone else but when I make alts (I have a lot of them actually...) I refuse to solo as soon as I can get consistent groups. It doesn't matter how geared I've had my twink, (quite twinked, not super uber though) or how much more uber exp I can get while soloing, I always prefer to group and have good times and memories with the other players. I've leveled a bard, monk, enchanter to 50+, and have twink pally, necro, shaman, ranger that I only group with.

This is an MMO, if I wanted to solo I'd go play a console RPG.

The bad side of this is when I'm on my bard and I get tells (daily) of other bards asking me to teach them how to AoE kite and I just say "I never learned, I only grouped." I get some funny responses :D
I agree and many do in fact. Twinks don't always stick to their own thing or to special groups. Instead they go out and group and don't care what the experience rate is. It's all about sharing the experience with others. But you have to keep in mind the game rewards people who ignore the new players and number crunch.

As for me, as a very low level character anyway, it may sound strange to you, but I specifically stayed away from twinks and handouts. I like to level slow and take it all in. Plvling is like gross genocide. Now, if I was on hte reverse and I had a max level main and wnated an alt for a guild then I'd probably be solely focused on the rate that I gain. Maybe hten I wouldn't desire so much to immerse myself in the low level game.

Some people you know only care about the rate they gain. For them it's max level or nothing. Max level for them is the access key to the raid scene. Or they play games that level you to max super fast, so when they come here that's what they expect and that's what they'll do if htey can twist the game in their favor. IMHO, max level is game over. Raiding doesn't interest me as much, as I've already tasted it on live. I'm fine if I never get past level 20 so long as I enjoy it. And as far as I played, I can tell you that I indeed enjoyed it. Only 1 or 2 of my characters was over 20. The highest was 24. The majority were less than 19. Rarely twinked.

You know a lot of the things in newer games attempt to address these issues. Issues like twinking and group experience and group versus solo play. There're a million different ways to go about solving them with varying amounts of success. You know what really separates players on different issues is HOW the problem is solved, not whether it's a problem or not. This is my principal disagreement with some of the newer games. It's how they go about solving them that gets me heated up and running away for a different game.

There's also the issue that in groups vender items don't often get distributed equally. One guy will grab a bronze weapon and a pearl and a jade ring and a gold medallion or who knows what and all of that's worth several plat at least but usually nobody says anything and he essentially gets a disproportionate share. Some games do away altogether with vender items or they'll have a complicated method to distribute the loot, but overall, this complicates the process of ensuring that everybody gets their fair share of the loot. This makes soloing better for money in most practical cases, except when the group gets rare loot from a named. In that case, the combined power of the group can be harnessed to grant access to "cash" items which receive a hefty sum. But in the low levels anyway, I can vouch that soloing is almost always better for money. There's also the issue that you can't just run away and sell for money without leaving your group for 20+ minutes and this tends to encourage you to loot less than you otherwise would alone, so that you don't interrupt the group.

We could go on and on about the problems. Some consider them features. For example, the need to actually travel and store our loot with limited numbers of slots and weight limitations makes hte game more interesting for me. However, there're places where I'd like to see things changed in the interest of playability and enjoyment. I am NOT an easy-mode fanboi, though. I am hardcore all the way. For me, strategy and details are more important than convenience. I want difficult travel if it adds strategy and depth, for example. I want weight limitations and bag limitations and travel limitations if I feel it adds to the experience. I'm so bad, so masochist, I'd probably want volume added to the classic eq inventory system, like in diablo I/II/III(?). I'm sure many players would hate it, but I love those kinds of things. I'm an engineer at heart; love details.