Zoning at low HP / buff removal

[Daldaen]

Zoning while you are under the HP value that your gear provides in HP, should strip you of all buffs. Beneficial and Detrimental.

IE - If you have +500 HP in gear. And you zone with 450 HP, you should lose all your buffs. This mechanic was in game to save people from DoT deaths post-zoning.

Evidence:

EQClerics Post in 2002 (http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5738&highlight=ZONING+LOW+HEALTH+buffs[/url)

PET PEEVE: The bug that causes you to lose all your buffs when you zone with less hit points than you have +hit point gear.

I can't be alone in this one.

According to magelo, I have roughly +900 in direct hp gear, and another +270 in non-direct hit point gear.

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=38518

I am roughly your average equipped level 60 cleric.

What is my beef? Everytime I zone with about 1 1/2 red bubbles of health, I lose ALL my buffs.

Yes this bug has been around for a long long time, but with Luclin and the items available, suddenly a LOT more people have massive +hit point gear.

A long time ago someone posted on the dev boards about it and Absor dismissed it as saying something like "Well if you zone with low hitpoints you were going to die so this is better than dying".


Mechanic Removed in 2003 (http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15422&highlight=ZONING+LOW+HEALTH+buffs)

Zoning and losing your buffs - There has been a long-standing problem that could cause all of the buffs to be stripped from a character if they zoned with fewer hit points than they had bonus hit points granted by items. For example, if your character had only 10 hit points left when zoning, and had an item that granted +15 hit points, all of your character?s buffs may have been stripped when you completed zoning. We have fixed this bug. You should now retain your buffs in this situation.

[Daldaen]

Bump.

How difficult is such a code change to make?

[Haynar]

Its been discussed.

Answer is, very easy to put in.

However, the decision was that it was a stupid bug. And won't be implemented at this time.

H

[Daldaen]

Ah lame. It was very annoying sometimes. However other times it stripped a DoT that would've killed you had you zoned and kept it.

But okay :/.

[Ele]

Its been discussed.

Answer is, very easy to put in.

However, the decision was that it was a stupid bug. And won't be implemented at this time.

H

oh Fizzlethorpe, here comes the anti-recharge/soulfire brigade

[Supaskillz]

Ah lame. It was very annoying sometimes. However other times it stripped a DoT that would've killed you had you zoned and kept it.

But okay :/.

Died just last night to a dot after zoning

[Wrench]

Died just last night to a dot after zoning

betcha didnt lose xp

[Haynar]

betcha didnt lose xp
But you will when u should soon. Dots keeping track of whether they should cause exp loss death, across zone lines, will patch soon.

H

[Pint]

But you will when u should soon. Dots keeping track of whether they should cause exp loss death, across zone lines, will patch soon.

H

Ugh, how can you simultaneously be so good to us and yet so cruel..

[Potus]

Melees used to exploit the hell out of this. As a Necromancer I approve.

[Scrubosaur]

Ya common strat was to fight a dotting caster at the zone line that way if things got hairy you could zone out at low health and all the dots would drop.

[TWDL_Prexus]

But you will when u should soon. Dots keeping track of whether they should cause exp loss death, across zone lines, will patch soon.

H

How come you are changing the exp loss but not fixing this bug and making it classic. Doesn't seem right.

[Crom]

But you will when u should soon. Dots keeping track of whether they should cause exp loss death, across zone lines, will patch soon.

H

Actually you do sometimes still loose exp now, it's a bit random, changing it to allways will only benefit one class that can cast a DOT and Rez them selfs...(here is a clue, he was the one supporting it a few posts earlier, wonder why he was supporting this change...)

[Haynar]

How come you are changing the exp loss but not fixing this bug and making it classic. Doesn't seem right.
Classic, was you always lose exp if you die from a dot on blue. I dont know what pvp servers were like.

If you died from a dot in a duel or in the arena, it was a exp loss death. This was true at least into PoP.

H

[Nirgon]

PvP = no xp loss from environmentals like burning/falling/drowning/bleeding out. I linked evidence in one of the red threads about 4 level range being classic iirc. Zoning from NPC dot would also be no xp lost, death to dot from npc otherwise would do it.

PvE = xp lost on fall/drown/burning. Dots from NPCs too after you zone... but I cannot comment on dots from players after you zone.


I think pain and suffering if it ever managed to hit you (never in my experience) would always cause xp loss but that needs research.

[Daldaen]

While we are on the topic of deaths... I need to find some evidence in favor of knocked unconscious HP (or purple HP).

I recall you being allowed to go to -10 HP at which point you would die. And at -6 or -8 you were starting to bleed to death which I think acted to counteract your innate regen and eventually kill you unless you got a heal.

But here on low levels I've gotten hit for 5 with 4 HP left and died. When I should've just got knocked unconscious with -1 HP and been allowed the chance to regen and get back up and fight if the mob missed a few times in a row.

That deserves it's own post and research though.

[Nubben]

While we are on the topic of deaths... I need to find some evidence in favor of knocked unconscious HP (or purple HP).

I recall you being allowed to go to -10 HP at which point you would die. And at -6 or -8 you were starting to bleed to death which I think acted to counteract your innate regen and eventually kill you unless you got a heal.

But here on low levels I've gotten hit for 5 with 4 HP left and died. When I should've just got knocked unconscious with -1 HP and been allowed the chance to regen and get back up and fight if the mob missed a few times in a row.

That deserves it's own post and research though.

This is so classic and definitely deserves a thread. I definitely remember laying there unconscious, and getting lucky with a few misses, popping up, and landing the killing hit. Several times. I also got saved from a well-timed bandage by a higher level player while I was unconscious once.

It shouldn't be too hard to prove the -10 HP for being unconscious part, since they later added AA's to increase the amount below 0 that you can go. The hard part might be figuring out when the bleeding to death starts.

[BlkCamel]

While we are on the topic of deaths... I need to find some evidence in favor of knocked unconscious HP (or purple HP).

I recall you being allowed to go to -10 HP at which point you would die. And at -6 or -8 you were starting to bleed to death which I think acted to counteract your innate regen and eventually kill you unless you got a heal.

But here on low levels I've gotten hit for 5 with 4 HP left and died. When I should've just got knocked unconscious with -1 HP and been allowed the chance to regen and get back up and fight if the mob missed a few times in a row.

That deserves it's own post and research though.

I have purple club'd on this server, so I know it works. Was in perma bear pits, hit the floor and popped up. Purple club does exist.

[TWDL_Prexus]

Classic, was you always lose exp if you die from a dot on blue. I dont know what pvp servers were like.

If you died from a dot in a duel or in the arena, it was a exp loss death. This was true at least into PoP.

H

What is in the OP is also classic. Only fair to leave the no exp death in, if you are going to leave the buff/dot stripping out.

[Crom]

While we are on the topic of deaths... I need to find some evidence in favor of knocked unconscious HP (or purple HP).

I recall you being allowed to go to -10 HP at which point you would die. And at -6 or -8 you were starting to bleed to death which I think acted to counteract your innate regen and eventually kill you unless you got a heal.

But here on low levels I've gotten hit for 5 with 4 HP left and died. When I should've just got knocked unconscious with -1 HP and been allowed the chance to regen and get back up and fight if the mob missed a few times in a row.

That deserves it's own post and research though.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7619

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20481&highlight=purple+club

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15225&highlight=purple+club

(I admit being one of the posters in some of the threads :) )

[Rhambuk]

What is in the OP is also classic. Only fair to leave the no exp death in, if you are going to leave the buff/dot stripping out.

You're livin in the past man! you're hung up on some clown from the 60s man!

[Shift]

This is very annoying to a warrior since we get the best damage at low health I ride my health bar down to the bare minimum like 5% so i can pull some crits and crippling blows but as i zoned out of blackburrow my buffs was gone wtf

Please fix this Zone crashing

Please fix buffs disappearing during zoning or randomly disappearing in zones because of low health below 30 percentage of health this is not cool.

We got alot of bug issues with debuffs and for zone crashing all the time.

Can you please be attentive to these very evil bugs. This still would make a eq veteran quit really fast because lack of time to play and so much down time taken out because of crashes back to back.

And I know it;s not my PC since i don't got a dinosaur.

I computer Designed to Play a Heavily graphic game called Age of Conan with max graphics and not low fps at raids.

So it's within your Infostructure.

I am a Casual Donator because I love this Server and staff is tip top shape.

Thanks Sincerely , KiShift GL of Crypt Raiders

[Daldaen]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201530

Rogean has addressed the issue with zone crashing, they are working on a solution and have a ticket in with one of their providers to help fix it.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150044&highlight=Buff+zone

The buffs being removed is classic. I made sure to post evidence of this anomaly so that it could be properly replicated on P99.

Any time you zone with less HP than you have in total +HP from items, your buffs will disappear. Both good buffs and bad buffs (like DoTs which could have killed you if they ran their course).

So if you don't want to lose your buffs, look at your gear and total up your HP items and make sure you zone before you drop below that value. Example:

You are wearing two 55 HP rings and a Skull Shaped Barbeute (35). And that's it as far as raw HP gear goes (Stamina is irrelevant here).

55+55+35=145

Zoning with 1-144 HP will lose your buffs
Zoning with 145+ HP you will keep your buffs

Know your number and plan accordingly. Losing buffs is better than dying when things are dire.

[Colgate]

nvm

[mdogornone]

We were running at ~20% health (i zoned with 19%) and after we zoned out of CB (Crushbone) i noticed i had lost ALL of my buffs. I had skin line nature, clarity, brilliance, strength, dex, and SoW, after zoning i had 0 buffs......... I checked to make sure they weren't dispelled (they weren't), i checked to see if any of them faded (one had), but magically i just "lost" the other 6................................................. . Can we get this looked at pls?

[Barkingturtle]

This happens if you zone with fewer HP's than you have HP's derived from items.

[Ele]

Classic functionality, it prevents you from zoning while dead.

Can be used to your benefit to stripped dots that would kill you otherwise.

[Daldaen]

Check your gear.

Add up all the +HP

If you zone with an HP amount below the above value, all your buffs will get removed.

You can use this information to a benefit. Flee and zone before you drop below this value to save your buffs. Or drop below the value and zone to remove a nasty DoT or debuff.

[Buhbuh]

I'm wondering how this will play out in PvP with like double the HP from gear. I lose them all at 27% so far. It'll probably just get bigger. Gonna be kind of funny.

[mdogornone]

That can't be an intended function???? Having someone lose all their buffs when they don't die..... Surely that's a mistake or a failure in coding...

[4WOFURY]

It's classic - prevented deaths from DOTs when you zoned.

[Ele]

That can't be an intended function???? Having someone lose all their buffs when they don't die..... Surely that's a mistake or a failure in coding...

It may not have been original intent of the EQ devs, but it is how it worked back in the day, which is why it is replicated here.

The game would load your character naked, then populate your items after zoning. If you zoned with less hp than what your items provided, you would be dead since you essentially had negative hp. Instead of this outcome, the game instead strips your buffs and loads you fresh.

It was eventually removed beyond the server's proposed timeline due to mudflation of gear adding so many HPs that you could zone at 40-50% hp and get your buffs stripped.

[Toodles]

I received a Spirit of Wolf and a Strength Buff from a level 10 Shaman before entering East Cabilis. Once zoned in, the buffs were gone. We repeated the process and it happened again.

The only oddity to my character's status is that I am overweight 208/86.

[Daldaen]

List all of your equipment with +HP.

Total up the +HP total. IE wearing 2 of the 55HP earrings would be +110HP.

Check if when you're zoning you are zoning with less HP than the above value. If you are, this is working as intended. The game does it because it loads your character before your gear. When it does this, it loads you, finds you have less HP than you character does without that HP gear, considers you as dead person and strips all your buffs.

It worked like this in EQ until around 2003.

[Toodles]

Thanks for the reply and explanation. I will check the numbers later.

Though this doesn't happen on all zones, just East Cabilis so far. I also don't believe I fully understand what you are saying.

[Daldaen]

If you zone with less current HP than you have +HP (combined across all slots) in gear, you will lose your buffs and debuffs when zoning.

IE if you are only equipping two 55HP rings, your total +HP from gear is +110. If you happen to zone with between 1-109 HP, you will lose your buffs.

Figure out what your number is with current gear and try to not zone if you are under that number and want to keep your buffs.

[syztem]

Happened by accident, wasn't sure how or why. Normally you lose all your buffs and are basically dead or something. This happened to me today, I was finally able to re create it 2 out of 10 times after figuring out what happened. Not sure if this is red specific, or both servers since I don't play blue I don't know if the same mechanic is in.

http://i.imgur.com/ni710C9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/386XRwP.jpg

[Daldaen]

The only time you lose buffs is if you zone with less HP than you have in raw HP gear. It looks like you did this in the screenshots provided. May be something weird with zoning while unconscious though?

But if you're in full cloth, you can zone with 1 hitpoint and keep your buffs because you have no HP gear.

[syztem]

yeah i understand that. but healing back to full and retaining aegolism etc was what was different. it has no real abuseable function that ive found since its hard to re create.

[JDFriend99]

Hi. I am no good at posting bug reports, but i have a lvl 15 enchanter alt i mess around on, and recently as in last month or so, i've seen when i zone on her, she is at 45-60 % hp and it wiped all my buffs.

I know normally this is for 25% hp or under it occurs, but i'm certain as i'm testing it it is wiping out buffs when im 45% and 50% and 60+ %.

Is this a new bug? Can anyone else verify this by posting your lvl of enchanter and buffs wiped out?

It needs to be said i am playing in Antonica specifically NRO oasis SRO HH keep and pass, EC, WFP , WC, NFP, Ekarana, Lavastorm, Najena. Happened in those zones that i have caught.

[loramin]

I may be mistaken, but when you zone I think it's based on your HP value, not percentage. As a result lower level characters (with lower HP totals) will lose buffs at higher percentages than higher-level characters.

[aaezil]

If you zone with less hp than the amount of extra hp your gear gives you then all your buffs will poof on the other side

[loramin]

If you zone with less hp than the amount of extra hp your gear gives you then all your buffs will poof on the other side

Ah yes that's it: +1 what Aaezil said.

[Erati]

Eratani cant zone at 42% health or boom he loses all buffs.

QQ

[joppykid]

Is this new? I don't ever remember this happening (on this server) and it has been happening to me a lot while leveling my ranger. I assume it's a classic thing I just don't remember. Definitely sucks though haha.

[loramin]

Is this new? I don't ever remember this happening (on this server) and it has been happening to me a lot while leveling my ranger. I assume it's a classic thing I just don't remember. Definitely sucks though haha.

It might suck now, but when you have a DoT on you that will kill you, and it goes away when you zone, you'll appreciate it ;)

[Erati]

It might suck now, but when you have a DoT on you that will kill you, and it goes away when you zone, you'll appreciate it ;)

Ironically this change made it more difficult to kill yourself in order to corpse something using dots. If you dot yourself then zone the dot is no longer attributed as having an owner and would not cause exp loss. No idea if thats proper mechanic or if it even still works as I havnt corpsed anything in forever with this method, but it certainly used to. Its sorta similar to dotting a mob up then zoning while plvling, the other person just needs to deal 1 pt of damage for exp not out damage the dot nor could the person who applied the dots simply zone back and gain exp if the mob died to their dots after they zoned out and back in.

So after this change you would need to understand what your health needed to be at to properly zone to retain the dot on you.

[majorpsych]

My warrior loses all of his buffs whenever I zone out from uGuk into Innothule

[elwing]

Classic, or the best dev came up with... Basically if you zone with less hp than your +hp item, you get stripped. I think it has to do by the fact that you get instantiated dead, then items are added... This "bug" comes up every now and then... I guess you could check before posting and report bug using the recommended form...

[loramin]

https://i.imgur.com/yEQ4Miq.gif

But seriously, it will feel like a feature when you zone at low life with a DoT on you that would have killed you ... if not for this "bug".