Charmed Pets should drop items given to them

[Daldaen]

September, 2001

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4261

No, I have tried giving these to pets, but since they're a throwing weapon, not a meelee weapon, the pets can't equip it. If it's a charmed pet, however, you can actually loot it off the pet's body when charm breaks and you kill it. Wish pets could use ranged items, like bows, shurkins, shattering hammers.

I'll add more evidence as I search. But this is to get the ball rolling. I've mentioned it a few times, just wanted a legit bug post about it.

[Tecmos Deception]

I've gotten the impression that the staff definitely know about this and maybe even would like to implement it... but that it doesn't work because it opened up some dupe/exploit issues and they don't have fixing it as a high priority right now.

Not that I wouldn't love to be able to give my pets a steel hilted flint dagger and an obtenebrate shortsword, mind you. Lol :)

[Rettj]

Ya let's trade no drops I'm in

[Daldaen]

Ya let's trade no drops I'm in

Wat....

NPCs destroy no drop items given to them.

The exploit issue I seem to recall arising from charming a quest NPC and doing turnins (aka Lynunga), then killing her and looting the rubies. If they could code it to destroy items that yield a quest reward that'd be awesome.

Maybe there is another reason though.

[Haynar]

I have thought about revisiting this.

Known issue.

H

[Ele]

I have thought about revisiting this.

Known issue.

H

pras the high priest

[Supaskillz]

Wat....

NPCs destroy no drop items given to them.


This does not sound right. So are you saying npcs cannot wield no drop weapons?

There was at least a short time on live you could hand npcs random items and they would drop them even if the npc was not charmed ( although not sure if this worked for no drop items).

In any case wtb steel hilted daggers

[Daldaen]

There was a time perhaps...

But that was way early on and was removed due to the obvious exploit of transferring No Drop items.

[Wrench]

I've mentioned it a few times, just wanted a legit bug post about it.

oh daldaen, thank god you finally made a legit bug post about this



http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11427
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11412
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85294
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12436

[Daldaen]

3 of those were from 2010, and Loraen's from 2012.

But mine has a quote from 2001 (Classic Era) as evidence!

[Wrench]

3 of those were from 2010, and Loraen's from 2012.

But mine has a quote from 2001 (Classic Era) as evidence!

newer?

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120677

i shouldnt complain tho, you caught the attention of the haynar

[Potus]

Yeah I used to carry around weapons to give charmed pets.

I hope this gets fixed. Gnoll Hide Lariats are fun.

[Detoxx]

When on my enchanter, it always eats any no drop weapon i give to my pet

[Potus]

On live all npcs ate no drop items you gave them. It was to prevent no drop being traded.

NPCs didn't eat droppable weapons. They usually equipped them, which was why the Priest of Discord always had a ton of bronze plate and ykeshas.

[Haynar]

The issue is the way the perl code handles quest items.

I have worked on it before, and I dont want to rewrite a ton of quests to get it to work. I do have some ideas. Will give it a look this weekend if I get some time.

Getting the perl to report back to the c++ which items were quest consumed is the key i think.

H

[koros]

I'm currently procrastinating on writing a perl script by reading this thread. Feel free to post snippets if you want some extra assistance on it.

[Daldaen]

Bump. Since we are having the discussion on torches.

Haynar have you made any headway in this by chance? I'm sure you're busy with other stuffs, just curious how this looks.

[Haynar]

Havent even looked. I think its still possible.

[Daldaen]

Friendly bump!

Save GM's time in petitions. If you gave an item to an NPC you should just have to slay him to recover it! Quest items should obviously poof.

[Nirgon]

Found evidence at one point that no drop items would not be wielded by pets if given to them.

Obvi can't find it now :(.

Would be a great change.

[Erati]

Found evidence at one point that no drop items would not be wielded by pets if given to them.

Obvi can't find it now :(.

Would be a great change.

pretty sure thats how this works now

I dont know of anyone using no drop items as pet weapons

maybe an example of an item you seen people use ?

[Nirgon]

Nah I remember trying to give the dispel sword from kael to a mob we charmed during Velious and it wouldn't take it oddly enough. Subsequent efforts with other no drop weapons also always failed :(... and yet... NPCs wield them if they spawn with them? It's intredasting for sure.

What we did succeed in doing was putting a Muzzle of Mardu and 2 summoned daggers on Dain :). Pic of that success is on the Ascending Dawn archives (they killed it, fuckers).

[Daldaen]

No drop items were insta-destroyed by mobs very early on because of the obvious exploit where you could charm a mob, give it uber no drop item, then kill and let someone else loot. Effectively transferring that no drop item.

To combat this they made it so that all no drop items given to NPC are instantly destroyed... Unless it's part of a quest MQ, then it just sits in limbo until the MQ is complete. If he mob is killed before then the item just disappears from limbo and isn't dropped by that NPC.

[koros]

Nah I remember trying to give the dispel sword from kael to a mob we charmed during Velious and it wouldn't take it oddly enough. Subsequent efforts with other no drop weapons also always failed :(... and yet... NPCs wield them if they spawn with them? It's intredasting for sure.

What we did succeed in doing was putting a Muzzle of Mardu and 2 summoned daggers on Dain :). Pic of that success is on the Ascending Dawn archives (they killed it, fuckers).

I don't think it's under dispute that mobs didn't equip no drop items... MAYBE in the extremely like fall 99 days and before (I vaguely recall that, but I don't trust it). Best combo was glowing black sword and velium swiftblade (preferably on an unslowable mob that flurried)

Edit: ok yah it was true. I think that's how furor got his serverwide first level 50 rogue banned.

[Erati]

and yet... NPCs wield them if they spawn with them? It's intredasting for sure.


I agree with this. CT should not be holding Soul Leech when he has it. Nor should Inny be holding his no drop weapons either.

Keldor Dek Torak's Orb should not be visible. The Dread Widow's Thyxl should not appear as a 'glowing pulsating orb' underneath its belly.

I could go on and on. Cleric of Innorruk in Hateplane should not have orb visible when they have shield.

Many violations of this which I chalked up to the Titanium client I assume.

However as far as I know, you cant hand a pet a no drop weapon and they wield it. The NPCs holding those items I listed upon spawning is a horse of a different color, but in the same barn.

[koros]

I agree with this. CT should not be holding Soul Leech when he has it. Nor should Inny be holding his no drop weapons either.

Keldor Dek Torak's Orb should not be visible. The Dread Widow's Thyxl should not appear as a 'glowing pulsating orb' underneath its belly.

I could go on and on. Cleric of Innorruk in Hateplane should not have orb visible when they have shield.

Many violations of this which I chalked up to the Titanium client I assume.

However as far as I know, you cant hand a pet a no drop weapon and they wield it. The NPCs holding those items I listed upon spawning is a horse of a different color, but in the same barn.

Dain always held his heckle hammer if he had it. Mobs who could duel wield just wouldn't equip 2 handers ever.

Here's alla's picture of dain holding his no drop shield:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5486

edit: You're probably right. Those are probably titanium client issues. I don't think the models you mentioned supported weapons/items being shown/equipped.

[Nirgon]

I'll take no drop weapons that drop from humanoid NPCs for 800....

8]

[Zaela]

edit: You're probably right. Those are probably titanium client issues.

Nope. Server code. The client doesn't know anything about a mob's loot before it dies. If you see a weapon on 'em, it's because the server sent out an appearance packet for it.

edit: and old models were very rarely changed; they've probably had weapon attachment points on them since forever. Some of them double up as points to emit spell particles from.

[Rais]

Could put no drop items on npcs and they would weld/show it. The old days of velious upgrades and handing the thurg guards old armor/robes/weapons so they look cool was all the craze.

[Erati]

Nope. Server code. The client doesn't know anything about a mob's loot before it dies. If you see a weapon on 'em, it's because the server sent out an appearance packet for it.

edit: and old models were very rarely changed; they've probably had weapon attachment points on them since forever. Some of them double up as points to emit spell particles from.


Well whats unique about my memories and this project is I did not play a lick of Luclin.

So when I remember things it happened strictly in Classic trilogy.

CT never ever held his shit in hand, much like the Avatar of Fear did not wield the claws.

Same goes with Inny. Same goes with the Kael 'noble npc' Keldor showing his Orb.

Same goes for Chief in Droga should not be showing the Essence of Dol, nor should Pyzjn be showing the GBS.....

Many of these graphics must have been added later in terms of 'npc models showing them'.......I could go on some more.

Dartain the Lost should look the same with each of his drops equipped. The spectral turnkey in KC AND froglok zol knight (or whatever type of frog drops it) in Sebilis should not be 'wielding' the Book of Obulus when they have it. Same goes for Najena and froglok tactician when they have the Black Tome with Silver runes.

The shimmering orb graphic, GBS graphic, Book graphic simply did not appear on any npcs in the Classic Trilogy. CT/Inny models did not graphically appear to hold weapons.

[Zaela]

It's far more likely that the server simply excluded certain NPCs/models from having weapon display packets sent than any client change. What appears or does not appear is 100% up to the server.

Whether an NPC "equips" a weapon, from their loot table or otherwise, is up to the server too. No fundamental reason it has to equip something in its loot table, nor (more to the point in this thread) put something in its loot table just because it has it "equipped."

[Erati]

so what ur saying is this could b an easy "fix"?

[Zaela]

Yeah. The server's rules for when something in a loot table should show up in the NPC's hand is wrong, evidently. What the rules should be (exclude no drop? exclude lore? exclude by NPC race? specific exclusions in certain cases?) I dunno.

[Erati]

Yeah. The server's rules for when something in a loot table should show up in the NPC's hand is wrong, evidently. What the rules should be (exclude no drop? exclude lore? exclude by NPC race? specific exclusions in certain cases?) I dunno.

well for starters, I dont remember any 'non' weapon graphics showing up in NPCs hands in Classic

Which is why I remember the Book graphics, the Orb graphics, and the GBS graphics not being on NPCs so vividly.

Bilge for example should also not be holding a Dolly when he has the PKT.

[koros]

well for starters, I dont remember any 'non' weapon graphics showing up in NPCs hands in Classic

Which is why I remember the Book graphics, the Orb graphics, and the GBS graphics not being on NPCs so vividly.

Bilge for example should also not be holding a Dolly when he has the PKT.

Guards held shields... I'm pretty sure pyzjin held the orb too.

[koros]

Zaela,

It's possible the client was set to exclude certain races from displaying items and it was changed by the Titanium release... which could be checked by going on live today. However, I definitely concede it's more likely it was server side.

[Erati]

Guards held shields... I'm pretty sure pyzjin held the orb too.

Pyzjn did not show the GBS.

What era did you start / finish in.

Its easy to forget how silly stuff like this was very early on, especially when things got changed so often and quickly. It would be easy to think 'this was how it always was' once alot of this stuff got put in.

Froglok Scryer did not show the orb when he had it. If he didnt show the Orb, Clerics in hate and the Kael giant should not be showing it either.

If the Dread widow did not show the GBS graphic on her belly, Pyzjn should not be showing it either.

Nothing is more classic than having NPC's with a lil mystery to their drops.....make this so

I will try later to find some quotes and see the earliest entry of people even mentioning the glowy thing in her hands.

[Daldaen]

All that's cool... But I want to be able to loot the items I give my charmed pet.

It was fun to give random items to a charmed rat in Freeport or bat in GFay for some noob to find.

I remember on the Mac server, people who would farm Lodizal would give the spells/section of shell/boots/ring to a random panther and gate out. Since it was all junk except the regen belt. It was cool when noobs would kill a panther with all those items on em.

And for keeping charmed weapons, it adds a bit more of a dynamic for charming. Adding in reusable items like conflagration dagger, tash stick, etc. Or just making it easier to recover gnoll hide lariats / deadwood staves.

[koros]

Pyzjn did not show the GBS.

What era did you start / finish in.

Its easy to forget how silly stuff like this was very early on, especially when things got changed so often and quickly. It would be easy to think 'this was how it always was' once alot of this stuff got put in.

Froglok Scryer did not show the orb when he had it. If he didnt show the Orb, Clerics in hate and the Kael giant should not be showing it either.

If the Dread widow did not show the GBS graphic on her belly, Pyzjn should not be showing it either.

Nothing is more classic than having NPC's with a lil mystery to their drops.....make this so

I will try later to find some quotes and see the earliest entry of people even mentioning the glowy thing in her hands.

Started release month, ended around the end of PoP. But you're entirely right. I don't trust my recollection of that enough, and it may have been affected by p99s mechanics being different.

However, I find it a little dubious that npcs would hold regular shields, but not other non weapon offhands.

[Zaela]

It's possible the client was set to exclude certain races from displaying items and it was changed by the Titanium release...

Yeah certainly possible. Although if it was the case, they would have been stupid to have the server sending out packets they knew for certain would be ignored by their own client.

edit: actually I guess since they would have only sent them in the spawn packets and not in the separate WearChange packets they would have been no worse for wear. So ignore that one! Although it would still be a bit of unnecessary processing on the server side... plus they would have to sync up the damage message types as well (slash versus hit, etc), normally equipped weapons take precedence. Although I suppose that wasn't necessarily always set serverside... dunno.

However, I find it a little dubious that npcs would hold regular shields, but not other non weapon offhands.

Shields have their own specific item type ID (8) which is also what enables bash when they are equipped. Weapons have particular item type IDs as well which wouldn't be shared by non-weapon stuff that can go in primary and secondary. It's conceivable that they checked for these as far as whether the NPC should "equip" them.

[Nirgon]

U will not refer to the sacred classic code as stupid

[blondeattk]

I agree with this idea, would end the need to carry torches about.

[Arterian]

Let's keep this going.

[Daldaen]

Just think of all the petitions you could begin to ignore when someone turns in the wrong items to an NPC... Now you could just kill them and loot em back!

[Daldaen]

Bump. Enchanters should have a set of solid weapons they carry around and maybe -MR gear, like classic.

[Nirgon]

Would quest items still filter out / be consumed some how? Iirc they should be.

Carrying serrated bone dirks is a time honored classic EQ tradition for skilled charm users.

[Daldaen]

Quest items definitely were filtered out. Charm pets from day one til now on live still wield and drop when kill most all items given to them.

No Drop items they immediately destroy (fixed in early classic to prevent trading no drops)
Quest Items I believe either go into a hidden inventory that the game holds onto until the quest is completed and then that inventory is flushed. Basically this is what allows Multi-Questing to occur.

Once one of our clever devs has time to test some things and figure out how to handle thre quest item issue, this would be a great fix. Plus it would save GMs from some petitions (err mer gerd I have my CoF to a snake... Well then kill it).

Plus it will be fun for higher levels to dump off random lore items that they let rot on snakes and bats. Tons of Chardok weaponry for example that rots will find its way onto random mobs as a free prize to noobs who slay these mobs.

[Wrench]

also makes a great rmt cover

[Crom]

coding for this is prolly a mess, when is a ruby a quest item, only when given to this and that npc or allways ?

[Haynar]

I can make it work pretty easy for mobs that don't have any quests associated with them. Its the quest item handling that complicates other mobs.

H

[Daldaen]

If you can make it work for mobs with no quest attached to them, do that IMO. Quest mobs are a semi small fraction of the game and not many are usually charmed or killed.

Gues like undead foreman in OT would be an exception I suppose, but 99% of normal charm targets working classicly is pretty good.

[Buellen]

imagine new players starting out slaying the mighty kicking snakes and finally beating it wiping the blood from his chest and kneeling to loot the body. where he finds 4 pieces of bonze armor and a fine steel sword. that is a mighty reward for one starting out8).

I remember this because it happened to me when I made a new cleric on the rathe. I was like "what the heck is all this " as I was jus used to fangs, skins, and eggs as loot. I used the bronze amor into my 20's. I always wandered how a snake earned that much loot but then again if a snake can learn to kick then nothing is out of its realm of possibilities 8)

[Haynar]

I coded it to allow charmed pets to add items to their loot table, if they don't have a quest that uses items. If it there are no issues on beta, it will get pushed live maybe.

H

[Buellen]

woo hoo sound awesome !

[Fysts]

I actually remember how you could transfer no drop items on live, as we did it with a few planes items. NPC's would immediately destroy no drop, but originally summoned pets would equip the., but originally summoned pets poofed when they died. What you had to do was have a mage give his pet a no drop item, then duel an enchanter. Enchanter would then charm mages pet, and have mage zone. When the mage zoned and ench charm wore off, the pet became a NPC which allowed him to drop no drop loot. This was later changed to summoned pets being coded same as npc . which meant they would destroy no drop items, but you could give them regular loot then reclaim your loot when they died. Pets got stat improvements from armor etc.

[Fysts]

Also you could always give NPC droppable loot and they would drop with when killed. We did his many times in EC to hook up new players, and I also used this several times to do item transfers.