Charmed Pets weight

[halason]

Do Charmed pets have a weight limit and can you over burden a charmed pet with enough weight? Also what are the best -MR items you can give to a pet that don't cost 300pp?

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

*REPLACEMENT TEXT FOR FUNCTIONALLY RETARDED POST MADE BY YUMUMS*

[halason]

negative MR not +

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

negative MR not +

Read wrong.

Derp

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

*REPLACEMENT TEXT FOR FUNCTIONALLY RETARDED POST MADE BY YUMUMS*

And then I misspelled my name because reasons

[Daldaen]

Rusty Spiked Shoulderpads are -10MR from Blackburrow named
Adamantite Bands are -10MR 75HP from reanimated hand in LGuk

Both aren't worth your time unless you're doing a solo artists challenge or they fix the server so that charmed pets drop the items you gave them upon death. (Given they don't die charmed and poof)

Charmers used to carry around a set of these and some solid weapons to hand them and recover when they kill their charmed pet if they are leaving the camp or getting a new pet. However here, mobs you charm won't drop the items you gave them. There was some exploit with Lynunga and duping plat iirc? But quest NPCs should just destroy quest items they're given anyways.

[halason]

My wife is a cleric so we just keep the pet for hours using CH. Those items are exactly what I am looking for!! thank you

[Castigate]

Wait, mobs equip items other than weapons that you give them? For sure?
I never knew about this if true.

[Tecmos Deception]

Wait, mobs equip items other than weapons that you give them? For sure?
I never knew about this if true.

Yes. I tested this giving a level 1 rat in EC a couple of 5/55 rings. The max HP on the mob won't update until you break charm, but they definitely do work. I don't whether or to what extent AC affects mitigation or dex affects proc rate or -MR affects resists though. Most of the solo artist challenge people swear by this, but I've never seen anyone with any data at all on the subject.

Maybe I'll motivate myself to go spam 100 roots on the undead foreman, then give him 10k in MR gear and spam another 100 roots to see what happens. Maybe :) (edit - guess this wouldn't be a good test, cause +mr and -mr gear could work differently... would have to test the -40 mr possible on a level 53 mob or something)


My wife is a cleric so we just keep the pet for hours using CH. Those items are exactly what I am looking for!! thank you

Imo those items aren't worth the effort for XP grinding. I've been buying them for years on my chanter and I think I only ever used them a couple of times. Even if we assume they do make a difference at all, it won't be a very big one on a long-term, grinding pet... probably similar to charming something 1-2 levels lower... a pet that hits for 128 instead of 120 (but then you'd have to use allure to charm instead of cajoling whispers!). Just my unscientific opinion though! Ench+cle duo doesn't need extra help to be a mob meatgrinder anyways :)


Edit - seriously doubt there is any kind of weight limit snare effect on charms, as hilarious as that would be.

[halason]

Well its my goal to gather as much information as possible for us chanters on the benefits of purchasing - magic res items. If you plan on six hours of grinding with a cleric or healer class with a fully equipped pet (mage mask included). I've read online that NPC's can only have 1 ring item is this correct?

[Tecmos Deception]

I read that too, but the test I did here on p99 showed both +hp rings worked on the mob in EC.

[halason]

How did you know the rings had both worked?

[Tecmos Deception]

Yes. I tested this giving a level 1 rat in EC a couple of 5/55 rings. The max HP on the mob won't update until you break charm, but they definitely do work.

A level 1 rat has like 15 hp. If only 1 of the rings gave him extra hp, he would have been at ~20% hp. But he was at only ~10%, indicating that he had gained both rings' worth of max hp.

You also could have tested by how many hp a cleric sees his heal landing for after, or how many hp it takes to kill the mob, etc.

[halason]

Perfect, I will attempt this with w -10 mr 75 hp rings to see if it is able to use both rings. If this works with a pair of shoulders that would make -30 MR which is 10 lower then our personal Debuff.

[Tecmos Deception]

Go do the tashania quest! :p

Eh, well. I guess you've only got one more level for tashanian. But shame on you for not doing that quest! :)

[halason]

I already have Tanshania, this is more about min-maxing pet for personal benefits when duo'ing with an enchanter/cleric combo. If I am able to keep my personal charmed pet longer with less breaks I find the amount of money I am spending to be justified by less annoying moments while xping. This has been used in the solo challenge, but I am more interested in a day to day use.

[Tecmos Deception]

Well if money is no issue, then give your pet a tola robe instead of a mage mask, a steel hilted flint dagger mainhand and a tome of the eternal offhand, a bunch of banded just incase AC boosts your pets mitigation, AND the -mr rings and shoulders. Then your pet will proc for hundreds a few times per minute and have crazy aggro, be almost 100% hasted with your buffs, take little damage so that your wife can nuke to help increase kill speed, and you'll still be getting about double the -MR that an enchanter can do alone.

I understand enchantering pretty well, I was just assuming that you are a typicalish leveling enchanter who would be better off just grinding xp than spending time and money to make the remaining time you have somewhat better... especially if you're in a location where your pet is likely only going to be used for 1 session before someone else kills it off.

edit - and stream it! It'd be fun to see what a level 45ish mob can do as a pet with all those bells and whistles.

[halason]

Well this is more of a Day to Day item list for normal chanters willing to spend like 700pp on a stack of items that he could use over a week period before going back to EC and grabbing more. So the rings and shoulder were what I was looking for and I appreciate the info.

[halason]

Tome of the eternal is another great item! with that plus the 2 rings and shoulder we are now at -40 + -40 debuff so -80 MR isn't to shabby for like 200 - 300PP. This could be invaluable for POH raiding as well, give an Abhorrent these items + malo + tash and you have a very dependable pet.

[Tecmos Deception]

Not sure how readily available the tomes are for purchase, but you shouldn't have (much) trouble finding several of the shoulders and rings.

Too bad you aren't on red! I had a pet that I used in HS north for WEEKS before a server reset killed him off. It'd be the perfect place for a duo to really, really pimp out a pet from the back of a zone and use it to grind for many sessions :)

[halason]

we've never done Red server before and I don't think we'd last very long against the insain twinks waiting to rape squishes around every corner ha ha. But seriously great information I am still looking for more - MR items that don't break the bank to make raiding and normal day to day grinding better if you've got some extra cash to spare.

[Daldaen]

Tome of the eternal is another great item! with that plus the 2 rings and shoulder we are now at -40 + -40 debuff so -80 MR isn't to shabby for like 200 - 300PP. This could be invaluable for POH raiding as well, give an Abhorrent these items + malo + tash and you have a very dependable pet.

NPCs only have a single ring, ear and wrist slot.

So you can only give them one ring. Anything else gets eaten.

[halason]

Yeah I figured as much, but some people have posted conflicting information about this so I am willing to waste 75pp to test it out myself.

[Tecmos Deception]

So you can only give them one ring. Anything else gets eaten.

I specifically tested this mechanic maybe a year or so ago. Have you specifically tested this and found the opposite of what I did since then?

[halason]

My wife and I are going to test this tonight, I will give a rat 2 rings -10 mr 75 hp and a full set of banded armor. I will slow the rat and my wife will make a level 1 alt fight it to see if the rat is taking less damage and has the full amount of hp.

[Tecmos Deception]

Make sure you charm it before you give it stuff (most NPCs won't take and equip stuff unless you charm them first, it seems) and that you break charm after you give them. When I did this the mob's HP didn't update to show they had extra until after the charm that I gave the items during broke... not sure if it was just a UI thing or if the extra HP actually weren't on the mob until after that charm ended.

[halason]

Ok tested this, Armor did in fact give the rat more mitigation with a full set of banded. Also only 1 ring slot for NPC charmed pets so this must have been updated on the server.

[Tecmos Deception]

Lol. You guys and your 1-ring-only crap. Screenshots and logs of mobs actually equipping two rings as of 2 minutes ago inc...

[Tecmos Deception]

About to give a level 1 decaying skeleton a 5/55 ring:
http://s29.postimg.org/hz8i29vs7/EQ001204.png

After I break charm so that HP update:
http://s9.postimg.org/hzwawkwwf/EQ001205.png

About to give the same skeleton a second 5/55 ring:
http://s15.postimg.org/d591hi1qz/EQ001206.png

And here you can see the current HP/max HP change as the skeleton has equipped the second ring:
http://s30.postimg.org/vz4zqcngx/EQ001207.png

55/.78-55=15ish hp base for a level 1 skele.
110/.88 (he healed a tick apparently)-110=15 hp base hp for level 1 skele.
Both rings gave the skeleton more max hp.


And then I let the skele heal up to full before beating him down. This screenshot shows him at 15% after having taking 110 damage (the first hit of 22 was me breaking mez up in the noobie yard to drag him into the tunnels away from some bard who was trying to XP), which is more hp than he would have had if he had only equipped one ring:
http://s23.postimg.org/gaipll94b/EQ001210.png

[halason]

I must have done something wrong, you are a god Tecmos!

[Tecmos Deception]

Not sure what the issue was with yours, if only one of that particular ring worked or if it was some issue with the timing of handing the items over while charming or what. But yeah, at least sometimes charms will definitely equip 2 rings.

[halason]

So tonight I am going to charm a Zol frog in seb and give him 2 - 10 MR 75 hp rings and the shoulders and see if I have a better night charming with my wife healing. Did you give each of the rings at once or did you charm. give ring. break. Charm give another ring. break?

[Daldaen]

http://samanna.net/eq.general/pets.shtml

1. Pets only have a single ring, bracer, and earring slot.

http://www.necrotalk.com/archive/index.php/t-844.html

All Pets (necro, magician, beastlord, druid, shaman, enchanter) have the same item slots as players, with the exception of the following: only ONE wrist, finger, ear slots. They also do not have a charm or powersource slot. While they do have a range slot, they will not use ranged attacks. Since pets are NPCs, they follow some unique rules while outright ignoring others.


Pets *shouldn't* equip more than 1 ring, ear or bracer. If they are, that is a bug.

And charmed pets shouldn't equip two of the same item (IE 2 Deadwood Staves), it will eat any duplicate.

[Nightbear]

Maybe do some testing? And get back to us with info

[baalzy]

Yes. I tested this giving a level 1 rat in EC a couple of 5/55 rings. The max HP on the mob won't update until you break charm, but they definitely do work. I don't whether or to what extent AC affects mitigation or dex affects proc rate or -MR affects resists though. Most of the solo artist challenge people swear by this, but I've never seen anyone with any data at all on the subject.

Maybe I'll motivate myself to go spam 100 roots on the undead foreman, then give him 10k in MR gear and spam another 100 roots to see what happens. Maybe :) (edit - guess this wouldn't be a good test, cause +mr and -mr gear could work differently... would have to test the -40 mr possible on a level 53 mob or something)




Imo those items aren't worth the effort for XP grinding. I've been buying them for years on my chanter and I think I only ever used them a couple of times. Even if we assume they do make a difference at all, it won't be a very big one on a long-term, grinding pet... probably similar to charming something 1-2 levels lower... a pet that hits for 128 instead of 120 (but then you'd have to use allure to charm instead of cajoling whispers!). Just my unscientific opinion though! Ench+cle duo doesn't need extra help to be a mob meatgrinder anyways :)


Edit - seriously doubt there is any kind of weight limit snare effect on charms, as hilarious as that would be.

Velious beta would be a great place to test these things. have to find appropriate mobs in a velious zone, but you're not losing items and can continously copy your character to restock them for new tests.

[Tecmos Deception]

http://samanna.net/eq.general/pets.shtml



http://www.necrotalk.com/archive/index.php/t-844.html




Pets *shouldn't* equip more than 1 ring, ear or bracer. If they are, that is a bug.

And charmed pets shouldn't equip two of the same item (IE 2 Deadwood Staves), it will eat any duplicate.

Not only are those sources from way past Velious (level 80s discussed in first link, 2004 posts in second link), but you are impeaching your own sources (you claim pets shouldn't be able to wield two of the same item, but that Samanna source says pets can equip two of the same LORE weapon even).


Did you give each of the rings at once or did you charm. give ring. break. Charm give another ring. break?

Lol. I posted descriptions and screenshots of exactly what I did :p


I wonder if I had broken charm again and given that skeleton a third ring if it would have equipped that too. What are the odds that someone ever actually tested charming a mob, giving 1 ring to it, breaking charm, and then repeating ad infinitum instead of just trying to give the same mob more than one ring during the same charm?

[Daldaen]

No... PETS are able to equip 2 of the same Lore weapon.

CHARMED PETS are not. I'll dig up some info on this. I know for a fact it was like this during PoP and on Mac server. That's why people have charmed pets different Mage summoned weapons and you NEVER saw them with the same one.

Yes, I realize their dates... But removing 1 item slot from pets does seem an odd change, no? Unless there was a clear exploit or reason to change it.

[Daldaen]

Druid groves post from 2002 about charmed pet weapons:

http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-2514.html

Just one thing to note, you CANNOT hand 2 of the same weapon to a pet. If you do it will only wield one of them, so the weapons need to be different to get full advantage.

From same thread 2 years later/necro bump:

NPC/charmed pets can only be given one of the same item. Dunno why, but if you give a charmed pet two identical weapons, one will poof, and it still won't be dual wielding.

Tl;dr - Charmed pets shouldn't wield two identical weapons. Regardless of lore status. You have to give them different ones.

[Tecmos Deception]

Come on, Dald. You either aren't even trying, or you're just a big fucking troll. You're posting a link to a thread where one guy agrees with your memory as if that proves it to be true... but the same fucking thread has a different guy in it who says the opposite. They're both just random dudes making a blanket statement without any specifics or proof. Oh, and did I mention that the guy who you are relying on also said that delay on weapons affects pet attack speed, in late 2002? Lol. Yeah. He's a reliable source!

Gnoll hide lariats being dual-wielded:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2665#m105785806640797
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2665#m103047286919377
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2665#m99108070366222

Search a number of different nice proccing weapons on zam and you find more comments about people giving TWO of them at a time to the same pet.

[Daldaen]

I'm quite positive about this lol. I know for a fact that CHARMED PETS ate a 2nd duplicate weapon.

Summoned pets could wield duplicates. The first post the only one talking about charmed pets, he says he gives one to his pet. The other two mention monk and air pets... Summoned pets.

[Tecmos Deception]

Ok, I missed you differentiating between summoned and charmed pets. But I'm still seeing people going both ways in your sources with regards to charms. Not sure how you can try to rely on a thread where two random guys with no real proof say A and three random guys with no real proof say B.

I noticed in that druidsgrove thread that someone mentioned how certain NPC types don't seem able to dual wield ever. Are you sure that all of these people claiming "charmed NPCs" can't wield two of the same item weren't just trying to give two of the same item to an NPC that can't wield two weapons at once ever or something?

[halason]

So far Tecmos's the only person here who has proven that a mob (not all mobs in project 1999) can in fact equip 2 rings. Don't believe it? well then you best submit some screen shots or video with evidence like tecmos did.

[Tecmos Deception]

I don't think dald is disagreeing with what actually happens on p99, hala, the screenshots I posted are pretty conclusive. He is arguing that it didn't work like this in classic and that it SHOULDN'T work like this now on p99. But it seems like the posts talking about this from back in the day aren't too supportive of either side, and the staff here have a "if you think something on p99 should be changed, the burden is on you to prove that it should be changed" policy.

[Velerin]

That would be funny if you could overload a charmed pet with heavy items to snare them. Unlimited time snare making for safe pets. Load up all the mobs in a zone with boulders and watch them all sloth around.

[Daldaen]

Aye I don't disagree with Tecmos' analysis of P99 mechanics.

I'm on the classic/"how it should be" end.

All pets *should* only have a single ring, ear and wrist slot
Charmed pets *should* only be able to wield 2 different weapons

The later I noticed a lot during my time on the Mac server where I charm killed most of the time. If I wanted my Diaku in tactics to DW he needed either a Mage blade + Mage fists or two different Mage blades. They NEVER used identical weapons (summoned weapons or otherwise). Which I confirmed on several occasions with different items.

Really neither are enormous issues. But they are classic mechanics.

That ring skeleton is curious though. I'd have figured pet slots were hardcoded and very difficult to change. I'm surprised they can equip two here.

[Tecmos Deception]

If I had a few fire opals on Tecmos I'd try my infinite-rings theory... lol. I should have done a new /beta to test it with the 2 opals I had and my djarns last night. Oh well.

[blondeattk]

best 2 hander to give a charmed pet? something with a proc?

experimental pet 01 :

http://wiki.project1999.com/A_Goblin_Backbiter

[blondeattk]

possible:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Man-o-War
http://wiki.project1999.com/Adamantite_Bo_Stick
http://wiki.project1999.com/Mithril_Two-Handed_Sword ?
http://wiki.project1999.com/Earthen_Blade *

best ones?

*might overwrite haste buff or just not stack?

[Jygia]

i tried giving 3 Golden Fire Wedding Rings to a charmed pet a year ago and the pet didn't gain any hps from the 3rd ring.