A Plea to the Staff of Project 1999

[Otto]

To the GM Staff of Project 1999:

I understand all of the hard work you've put in for this server to be what it is.

Actually, I don't. And I sincerely doubt ANYONE here can fully understand the amount of work you have put in for well over a year on this project. I would like to think that everyone is grateful for your work, but as we have seen over the past 2+ months, some people don't care.

There are your MacroQuesters, your Dupers, your two-boxers, your exploiters & cheaters. These individuals are specifically going against your wishes and destroying the integrity of the server. You have dealt with many of them, and some have been given second chances. However, some have not been dealt with. This is where the issue arises.

If you would stop sticking your heads into the raid target situation, you could deal with factual evidence of people exploiting, server development, and maybe even have a moment or two of relaxation!

Lets look at how this developed:

Raid targets begin as IB downs naggy 2x.
Server attack, Trans gets a shot at naggy.
Aeolwind pulls myself and Allizia aside to see if we can come to agreement.
One is not set in stone, but an idea is layed out.
IB moves on to kill vox, clear fear, kill Draco + CT. IB then downs naggy again.
Trans moves in to Permafrost for 14 hours.
Trans wipes to Lady Vox.
We were prepped and ready to go should this be the case, but we decide against it due to lag from DDOS (in good faith, in the spirit of fairness, and against our own self-interest).
After 3hours of patiently waiting for them to have a fair attempt, we leave. The ddos lag was too bad.
I receive a call at 1ish in the morning saying Trans had just killed a Vox that wasn't AEing. Rather than Tibador logging on his GM and reloading the PL (as has been done with us SEVERAL times), they just kill him.
They act as if its a legit Vox kill, and don't petition until afterwards. Whatever, deep breath, moving on:
Fear goes down for maintenance.
Trans moves into solb for 14 hours.
We decide to move in and attempt to be first to engage as the rules imply that we should.
Wenai steps in and sets up a server rotation with Aeolwind.
At no point in that pile of nonsense was there ever word to me about a rotation being enforced. I don't know who were the ones QQing and whining to you, but it certainly wasn't IB. It was a one sided complaint that you gave in to. It was only after this stupid rotation that you've implemented in which we started to bring our concerns to you. It seems to me that rather than dealing with the problem properly, you gave into people whining about not getting content handed to them. If you left it to the guilds, it would always be a competition for mobs; first prepared and first to engage.

I don't understand why the rotation was such a priority. We had shown good faith when we dealt with Lady Vox during the DDOS. On the other hand, there has been documented proof presented of Allizia and Tibador exploiting after specifically being warned about the Phinny pull. Then, on top of that, not fixing an obviously broken Vox before they downed her.

These issues have been brought to your attention as of one week ago today. A Whole week, and no repercussions. This is _sad_ when you consider the fact that we now have a 14 day MINIMUM ban hammer over our heads for handling raid targets in the classic manner.

Rather than giving it time to play out and see where it would lead, we've had to watch the GM's waste huge amounts of their time developing a very poor rotation which we are forced to follow for fear of a 14 day ban. This is just causing more ungratefulness for the server, and even more complaints. Please focus on the server, the broken content, and those who are exploiting it rather than the guild drama that is extremely one sided.

[Hasbinbad]

Instead of moving otto's post without addressing it, can we take a minute and address these very valid concerns?

[Wenai]

-Timeline is missing the fact that IB also showed up to Nagafen 5 hours early and claimed Nagafen. Proving that they were willing to operate under the system as long as it benefited them.
-Timeline is missing the fact that IB also showed up to Nagafen after Trans had been there for 14 hours early. Also missing the fact that you guys decided that the system that you guys were operating under should no longer apply to you.

At no point in that pile of nonsense was there ever word to me about a rotation being enforced.
When it became apparent that you guys were unable to co-exist we decided that something had to be done. It was decided that the only fair way to handle it was to ensure that both guilds split everything 50:50. So that meant that a rotation would be going in.

I don't know who were the ones QQing and whining to you, but it certainly wasn't IB.
I heard plenty of whining from IB when Trans started showing up 8++ Hours in advance for a spawn. In fact, that was the entire reason you guys decided you didn't want to follow the system anymore. You guys decided that the rules didn't apply to you anymore and wanted to just "engage first." You decided you wanted to write the server rules, sorry that isn't going to fly.

The implementation of the rotation solved two issues:
1) No longer need to show up 14 hours in advance.
2) No longer afraid of another guild rushing your target and KSing you.

The only way to get you guys to abide by these rules is with some form of leverage. That leverage was a 14-day ban. Ever since the rotation was announced, I have been very clear that we would be open to further suggestions and systems that people wanted to propose. Up until today the only suggestions we have really been told were, "Who ever engages first and does the most damage should get it!" Uhhh. Ya. No.

It seems to me that rather than dealing with the problem properly, you gave into people whining about not getting content handed to them.
Not at all. I feel the rotation fixed both of the gripes that both sides had. (See Above)

It seems to me that rather than dealing with the problem properly, you gave into people whining about not getting content handed to them.
First of all, don't assume your opinion is the only answer. Second of all we came up with a system that fixed both of the major issues that both sides were having. We are a PVE server, we need some form of order here on this server. It sounds to me like you have a severe case of PVP-Mentality. As far as I know, VZ/TZ is doing a fresh wipe. I suggest you guys check it out because your ethics aren't going to fly here. KSing, not respecting camps and not respecting your fellow players are not viable options here.

If you left it to the guilds, it would always be a competition for mobs; first prepared and first to engage.
No. If I left it up to the guilds, and your "first to engage" system, we would have 50-60 people sitting on top of Naggy's spawn point. With no one sure who really tagged it first. Then when it is all said and done, it turns out one Guild KS'd the other, you call for a GM to come revoke and re-distribute the loot dropped. Seriously dude, if you think everything would be roses; you are dead wrong.

I don't understand why the rotation was such a priority. We had shown good faith when we dealt with Lady Vox during the DDOS.
Yet you showed such bad faith when you attempted to go outside the current system and basically told me directly that you didn't care and that the guilds were "even." That is the thing about a system. If you start following it, you have to keep following it. Unfortunately you decided (as a guild apparently) that it was alright to go outside of the system that both guilds had been following for a few weeks because it no longer benefited you. That is why the rotation went into place. We need some form of order.

Want to know why the rotation was a priority? I have had a rather peaceful week and a half because there was no fighting over the spawns. There was no one asking me to come watch the raid and make sure nothing shady happened. I don't even know who has been killing what. That is how it should be. If it is FFA, it CAN'T be like that.

On the other hand, there has been documented proof presented of Allizia and Tibador exploiting after specifically being warned about the Phinny pull. Then, on top of that, not fixing an obviously broken Vox before they downed her.
What does this have to do with the rotation?

Rather than giving it time to play out and see where it would lead, we've had to watch the GM's waste huge amounts of their time developing a very poor rotation which we are forced to follow for fear of a 14 day ban.
Lol? Rather than giving it time to play out? We gave it probably three weeks or more. What more do you want? I had enough of asking you guys to play nice. Both parties have acted like complete children at one point or another. I guess this is your guys' turn to wear the tin foil hat. Enjoy it while you can, it seems to change heads quite quickly on this server.

Please focus on the server, the broken content, and those who are exploiting it rather than the guild drama that is extremely one sided.
I will. With the rotation in place, perhaps I will actually have time to look at issues at hand instead of babysitting you guys every few nights whenever a mob spawns.

It is really getting old. You have a chance to get rid of the rotation. You have a chance to help develop a system that we feel is fair. Grasp that chance. Embrace it. Make it the best you can that emphasizes competition and fairness.

[Keystone]

It isn't just a "PVP server mentality" to want to compete. I wish you'd quit fucking saying that stupid shit.

[Wonton]

When it became apparent that you guys were unable to co-exist we decided that something had to be done.

blah blah blah blah blah. lets the players play. you're only making a headache for yourselves by interfering.

[Supreme]

Rotation is what has worked over MANY servers for MANY years. Other than selfishness and immaturity their is no reason to protest a rotation.

[Wonton]

First to engage is what has worked over MANY servers for MANY years. Other than selfishness and immaturity their is no reason to protest a first to engage.

[Otto]

You keep painting the picture as if we had an agreed set of rules as to *whoever gets their first* gets the first shot.

Once again, it was an idea, a framework. It was never agreed upon and I wish you'd stop painting the picture that way.


You said, "-Timeline is missing the fact that IB also showed up to Nagafen after Trans had been there for 14 hours early. Also missing the fact that you guys decided that the system that you guys were operating under should no longer apply to you."

You missed quit a bit there. Not only was that in my post (IE numbers 13 and 14), I had informed Allizia over 5 days before that naggy kill that we would not be following the framework we had started working on.

You demean myself and my guild and our concerns and say we are missing all the facts. Don't get so high and mighty... you're missing them too.



As far as the rotation fixing both the gripes, you are sorely mistaken.

You stepped in the moment our first framework had failed. You didn't even give us the time to try out another solution.

I had my qualms with first to engage to begin with as well, but the more I looked back at live, the more I realized it was and is the way things were intended to be. For some reason though we are stuck on this idea that it'll just be a massive zerg fest in which we can't police ourselves on the first to engage thing.

On live this is exactly how it was. Guilds A, B, and C have their tracker locate a mob. Guild A and B mobilize instantly, C is late. Then, Guild A and B begin to buff. Guild A finishes first and engages. Guild B then has to wait, and C is just finally zoning in. Should Guild A wipe, Guild b gets a shot, if guild b wipes, then guild C (So long as they are prepared before guild A finishes their corpse run).

Anything short of this is not live-like. If you truly feel you have to police us, put in variance and remove the rotation. You'll be proven wrong.

[Supreme]

First to engage is what has worked over MANY servers for MANY years. Other than selfishness and immaturity their is no reason to protest a first to engage.

Is this your modus operandi?

[Deanob]

SOLUTION-

GM's just wash your hands clean of any spawn competition. Why do you care anyway? So as long the spawns are not being exploited in any way it shouldn't really matter to you...

Let the guilds duke it out, were all ADULTS, we don't need to be hand held.

100% of your time will be freed if you just walk away. Let it be FFA, let the spirit of the competition and game play it self out. No intervention is sometimes a good intervention. IMHO of course

[Bubbles]

First to engage is what has worked over MANY servers for MANY years. Other than selfishness and immaturity their is no reason to protest a first to engage.

There's no reason to protest it as a player.

From a GMs perspective, it's entirely reasonable to assume inmates running the assylum is something you'll go to great lengths to prevent.

[Hasbinbad]

-Timeline is missing the fact that IB also showed up to Nagafen 5 hours early and claimed Nagafen. Proving that they were willing to operate under the system as long as it benefited them.
-Timeline is missing the fact that IB also showed up to Nagafen after Trans had been there for 14 hours early. Also missing the fact that you guys decided that the system that you guys were operating under should no longer apply to you.

We never agreed to any system. There was one talked about but it was never agreed to because Allizia wanted the second guild to wait outside the zone and we wouldn't agree to that (as a guild).

I heard plenty of whining from IB when Trans started showing up 8++ Hours in advance for a spawn. In fact, that was the entire reason you guys decided you didn't want to follow the system anymore.
There was no system, we never agreed to any system.

You guys decided that the rules didn't apply to you
There was no system, we never agreed to any system.

..and wanted to just "engage first." You decided you wanted to write the server rules, sorry that isn't going to fly.
Maybe if *you* had written some server rules, we wouldn't have had to.

The only way to get you guys to abide by these rules is with some form of leverage. That leverage was a 14-day ban. Ever since the rotation was announced, I have been very clear that we would be open to further suggestions and systems that people wanted to propose. Up until today the only suggestions we have really been told were, "Who ever engages first and does the most damage should get it!" Uhhh. Ya. No.
I honestly have nothing to say about this, as it is pretty much on target.

We are a PVE server, we need some form of order here on this server.
Agreed.

It sounds to me like you have a severe case of PVP-Mentality.
Wenai, honestly, if you think the mentality we've shown is severely PvP, you're a carebear. We're trying to compete with, not kill, trans. I think you're under a lot of false assumptions as far as what our positions are, and if you had ever bothered to talk to us, you would know that. Unfortunately our only communications with you has been you joining our guild to inform us of how it was going to be.

As far as I know, VZ/TZ is doing a fresh wipe. I suggest you guys check it out
I herd that advertising for other servers wasn't allowed here. BAN!!

because your ethics aren't going to fly here.
FUCKING ROFFLECOPTERS!!! You are SERIOUSLY accusing _US_ of having faulty ethics while you ignore and defend PROVEN EXPLOITERS ON YOUR GM STAFF AND IN THE LEADERSHIP OF THE GUILD YOU ARE CATERING TO?!?!? Sounds like YOU need to put the pocket dictionary down and maybe attend a class on ethics so that you might have the hope of having some clue of the meaning of the words you throw around in ignorance.


KSing, not respecting camps and not respecting your fellow players are not viable options here.
We do NOT KS, we DO respect camps, and we DO respect our fellow players to the extent that they respect US. This has been shown time and time again and if you cannot see that you are BLIND. If there has been issue, it is because the GM staff has dragged ass on giving us some server rules and forced us to try and help shape them ourselves and THEN RIDICULES US FOR ATTEMPTING TO DO SO. We are sorry we haven't come to the forums to engage in your carebear tea party, but we've been busy levelling, farming, raiding, and helping people to bother. We've preferred to lead by precedent in the past, but obviously that is not going to work, so I for one will be much more vocal on the forums from now on to try and work this out. But Wenai do not fucking accuse us of shit that didn't happen. If you do, bring proof. Oh, wait, you have NONE, so tits or gtfo imho.

No. If I left it up to the guilds, and your "first to engage" system, we would have 50-60 people sitting on top of Naggy's spawn point. With no one sure who really tagged it first. Then when it is all said and done, it turns out one Guild KS'd the other, you call for a GM to come revoke and re-distribute the loot dropped. Seriously dude, if you think everything would be roses; you are dead wrong.
Honestly, I completely agree.

Yet you showed such bad faith when you attempted to go outside the current system
Every time you try and say there was a system from now on, I am going to retort that there was no system.

That is the thing about a system. If you start following it, you have to keep following it. Unfortunately you decided (as a guild apparently) that it was alright to go outside of the system that both guilds had been following for a few weeks
There was no system. We never agreed to any system.
The facts HAPPEN to have fallen into place as if we were following a system, and so your timeline elements are correct, but no such system existed.

Want to know why the rotation was a priority? I have had a rather peaceful week and a half because there was no fighting over the spawns. There was no one asking me to come watch the raid and make sure nothing shady happened.
Cute.
I guess when it's your buddies doing the shady shit (exploiting encounters, GM's not repopping mobs that are obviously broken) then it's not worth your time to look in to?

Lol? Rather than giving it time to play out? We gave it probably three weeks or more.
This was none of our faults, but it needs to be recognized that those two weeks were fraught with issues on the spawns and ddos attacks. We didn't really get a fair shake to work it out on an even playing field.

What more do you want?
I want you to do your job. Punish the people taking unfair advantage of the system and blatantly scoffing at GM edicts while simultaneously blaming us for their issues.

I had enough of asking you guys to play nice. Both parties have acted like complete children at one point or another.
You're right, and some of us in Inglourious Basterds who have been letting our less restrained members speak for us are acting now for change. I can only say wait and see to this, but I hope for better in the future.

I guess this is your guys' turn to wear the tin foil hat.
You can't seriously be implying that there is some kind of similarity between the kind of completely unfounded, totally baseless, and 100% unsupported slew of outright lies and blatant speculation that trans harped on for WEEKS about GM favoritism, hacks, and exploiting and the EVIDENCE we have provided to the leadership of this server regarding the obviously exploitative methods that GM-led trans used in the recent past to obtain loot from at least two boss encounters. I really thought your critical thinking skills were better than this Wenai, your posts are usually pretty well thought-out.

I will. With the rotation in place, perhaps I will actually have time to look at issues at hand instead of babysitting you guys every few nights whenever a mob spawns.
By your own admission, you had a half a week of peace before evidence was placed at your feet on a silver platter and you've had a week of peace since, and yet nothing has been done.

It is really getting old.
I agree.

You have a chance to get rid of the rotation. You have a chance to help develop a system that we feel is fair. Grasp that chance. Embrace it. Make it the best you can that emphasizes competition and fairness.
I've posted an alternative system here (http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1489). Please review it and say what you think.

[axius]

we know that in classic eq, on live servers, there IS precedent for raid targets / distribution being handled in at least TWO different ways. call them the "rules" if you want.

1) the most uberest guild (dedication, time, gear, skill) gets what the most uberest guild wants. the server i was on was like this (the nameless, guild: legacy of steel). competing guilds would sneak in a kill here and there but for the most part LoS was getting whatever they wanted because they were the most dedicated. you had semi-brief periods of head-butting with other guilds which would result in long as fuck camps, training, ks'ing and general ass-hattery but usually this would go away once it was clear WHO was more dedicated. if one guild keeps getting the lions share of the kills even DESPITE your membership spending countless hours waiting / getting fucked over... well that guild doesn't hold up over the long run and the situation sort of just resolves itself - the uberest guild wins. this isn't just a pvp thing, this was the case on a lot of pve servers as well

2) there are 2-4 "uber-capable" guilds that are constantly racing to spawns, camping shit for hours, and more or less dealing with all the shit i explained above. however, the stars have aligned and the different guilds are able to work it out amongst eachother to "share" the targets, and a raid target rotation is setup. this way ppl get loots over time and they dont have to sock out quite so hard to get them. i know this was the case on karana where a buddy of mine played in classic, and im sure several other servers as well. i know in some cases you'd even end up with scenarios where members of the individual guilds end up raiding with eachother from time to time, etc. there's also of course the scenarios where one of the guilds steps out of line on the rotation and you have a drama bomb, people get butthurt for awhile, and eventually that guild (usually) gets ground into dust and it stops being a problem.

so i think we can all agree that there is precedent for both and we should thus all be able to agree that it's plausible for ones mans "classic" isn't anothers, and so on.

where i think there's a special wrinkle here is that in true live classic it wasn't the gm's that were enforcing this stuff per-se ... at least not until after agreements had already been made between the player bases. in this case you have gm's enforcing the rules - that's not quite so classic by most ppl's recollections.

HOWEVER

there's another wrinkle here which is - let's not forget, this is a fuckin free emu server, you ARE in THEIR world now and they more or less have the freedom to make the rules how they see fit. now you can say that's not classic or w/e and we can debate that but ultimately it's tough shit.

when i played EQ i participated in scenario 1) above, and i thoroughly enjoyed my time. but i gotta say, at this juncture in my life, and i would assume in a lot of our lives, doesn't option 2 sound reasonable?

this isn't 1999 where uber guilds are trying to be internet famous (remember the big guild sites everyone always checked, to see what all the leets were doing? foh, los, al, etc).. let's face it that shit is over with. you're not gonna be internet famous, no one gives a *real* shit about any of this, the primary focus should be on having a good time. option 2 facilitates that with (hopefully) a lessened degree of poop-socking which is ultimately probably going to make this a more enjoyable overall experience.

this shit's capping at velious anyways. you're only racing towards *so much*

[Supreme]

just going to leave it at that.

[Otto]

For the record:

No one has addressed the situation of exploiting and cheating still. Been a week.

That was the main goal of this post anyway.

[Wenai]

We never agreed to any system. There was one talked about but it was never agreed to because Allizia wanted the second guild to wait outside the zone and we wouldn't agree to that (as a guild).


There was no system, we never agreed to any system.


There was no system, we never agreed to any system.
Both guilds were asked to respect each other if they were there first. Both guilds were asked not to engage if the other guild was there first. Both guilds followed these instructions up until a point.

Maybe if *you* had written some server rules, we wouldn't have had to.
Server rules were written a long time ago. They were on the original forums in the News section. Basically that entire forum was deleted some how (no idea how, I had no control over this) and they never got migrated to the new forums. All we had was an older rough draft of the rules which actually to be honest, I wrote the majority of the rules which were then passed on to and approved by Nilbog.

Wenai, honestly, if you think the mentality we've shown is severely PvP, you're a carebear. We're trying to compete with, not kill, trans. I think you're under a lot of false assumptions as far as what our positions are, and if you had ever bothered to talk to us, you would know that. Unfortunately our only communications with you has been you joining our guild to inform us of how it was going to be.
If I had bothered to talk to you guys? I tried to talk to Otto on a few occasions, never really got anywhere. I know Aeolwind had tried to talk to Otto as well and also got no where. Talking to 20+ people at one time is really not efficient nor effective. It is up to your leader to go into discussions with myself or another member of the team and speak for your guild as a whole. Otto has talked to many of us on the team. It seems that your guild's opinion is that you are not happy with anything.

FUCKING ROFFLECOPTERS!!! You are SERIOUSLY accusing _US_ of having faulty ethics while you ignore and defend PROVEN EXPLOITERS ON YOUR GM STAFF AND IN THE LEADERSHIP OF THE GUILD YOU ARE CATERING TO?!?!? Sounds like YOU need to put the pocket dictionary down and maybe attend a class on ethics so that you might have the hope of having some clue of the meaning of the words you throw around in ignorance.
Not even going to address this as it is really not relevant at all. If you feel that you need to attack me personally then so be it, but not relevant to this thread whatsoever.

We do NOT KS, we DO respect camps, and we DO respect our fellow players to the extent that they respect US. This has been shown time and time again and if you cannot see that you are BLIND. If there has been issue, it is because the GM staff has dragged ass on giving us some server rules and forced us to try and help shape them ourselves and THEN RIDICULES US FOR ATTEMPTING TO DO SO. We are sorry we haven't come to the forums to engage in your carebear tea party, but we've been busy levelling, farming, raiding, and helping people to bother. We've preferred to lead by precedent in the past, but obviously that is not going to work, so I for one will be much more vocal on the forums from now on to try and work this out. But Wenai do not fucking accuse us of shit that didn't happen. If you do, bring proof. Oh, wait, you have NONE, so tits or gtfo imho.
You guys did respect myself and your fellow players up to a point. It got to a point where it was apparent that your group was not willing to follow directions anymore and wanted to write your own rules basically. Dragged ass on giving you server rules? I am not really following what you are talking about. The rules were posted during the beta for weeks, and then they were posted on these forums.

I have said time and time again that you guys never KS'd. The issue was that you were threatening to. You can call foul and say that it isn't KSing and it isn't camp stealing or whatever. Fact of the matter is that you were going outside the realm of what this server is about. That is not conduct we condone nor allow. We stepped in and stopped you from even having a chance to do that.

I guess when it's your buddies doing the shady shit (exploiting encounters, GM's not repopping mobs that are obviously broken) then it's not worth your time to look in to?
My buddies? Lol. Do you realize that I have been duoing/soloing ONLY for the past month and a half or more? I have one person on the server that I am in contact with regularly. I really have no ties and for the time being that is how it has to be.

If you want the truth, I have a hell of a lot more ties in IB than I do in Trans. I don't talk with anyone in Trans at all. I am really not sure if you were intending to suggest I have friends in Trans or not. But if you were you are severely mistaken.

This was none of our faults, but it needs to be recognized that those two weeks were fraught with issues on the spawns and ddos attacks. We didn't really get a fair shake to work it out on an even playing field.
You guys still can work something out. I think the spawn variation is a good starting point and we will need all the input we can to make that work. Until then the rotation is staying.


I want you to do your job. Punish the people taking unfair advantage of the system and blatantly scoffing at GM edicts while simultaneously blaming us for their issues.
Ok?


You're right, and some of us in Inglourious Basterds who have been letting our less restrained members speak for us are acting now for change. I can only say wait and see to this, but I hope for better in the future.
I hope that the future is better than the past month or so has been. I defended you guys for weeks when you guys were being slandered for everything. I stood up and answered the call whenever GM favortism claims came into play. You guys had no favortism and I know it was driving you guys nuts when people made these claims. The exact same situation is happening here. Claims that Trans wrote the rules etc etc etc. It is all the same repeated bullshit.


You can't seriously be implying that there is some kind of similarity between the kind of completely unfounded, totally baseless, and 100% unsupported slew of outright lies and blatant speculation that trans harped on for WEEKS about GM favoritism, hacks, and exploiting and the EVIDENCE we have provided to the leadership of this server regarding the obviously exploitative methods that GM-led trans used in the recent past to obtain loot from at least two boss encounters. I really thought your critical thinking skills were better than this Wenai, your posts are usually pretty well thought-out.
Yep. I am implying that this is the exact same completely unfounded, totally baseless, 100% unsupported slew of outright lies and blatant speculated bullshit.

Sorry if you feel that my posts are not well thought-out but there is an easy explanation why you are feeling this way. When your group of individuals are the ones being on the other side of the argument you are going to get defensive. When I was defending you and sticking up for your group of people you thought it was great. When you guys disagree with my stance on anything I am the devil and I should go die. Whatever.


By your own admission, you had a half a week of peace before evidence was placed at your feet on a silver platter and you've had a week of peace since, and yet nothing has been done.
I am in the middle of exams. Kind of not really in the mood to deal with this stuff and decide which brand of diapers I need to wrap around your soft, delicate, slightly rashed bottom. I am not sure if you guys are still rockin' the Huggies or if you are ready for the Big Boy Pullups yet.



I've posted an alternative system here (http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1489). Please review it and say what you think.
Going to be honest. I don't think this really has any place on our server. I haven't really read it in full detail at this time.

[Bubbles]

this isn't 1999 where uber guilds are trying to be internet famous (remember the big guild sites everyone always checked, to see what all the leets were doing? foh, los, al, etc).. let's face it that shit is over with. you're not gonna be internet famous, no one gives a *real* shit about any of this, the primary focus should be on having a good time. option 2 facilitates that with (hopefully) a lessened degree of poop-socking which is ultimately probably going to make this a more enjoyable overall experience.


That is so perfect in every way. /slow clap.

[Wonton]

Server rules were written a long time ago. They were on the original forums in the News section. Basically that entire forum was deleted some how (no idea how, I had no control over this) and they never got migrated to the new forums. All we had was an older rough draft of the rules which actually to be honest, I wrote the majority of the rules which were then passed on to and approved by Nilbog.

So where are they?


I hope that the future is better than the past month or so has been. I defended you guys for weeks when you guys were being slandered for everything. I stood up and answered the call whenever GM favortism claims came into play. You guys had no favortism and I know it was driving you guys nuts when people made these claims. The exact same situation is happening here. Claims that Trans wrote the rules etc etc etc. It is all the same repeated bullshit.

Added headache?

Sorry if you feel that my posts are not well thought-out but there is an easy explanation why you are feeling this way. When your group of individuals are the ones being on the other side of the argument you are going to get defensive. When I was defending you and sticking up for your group of people you thought it was great. When you guys disagree with my stance on anything I am the devil and I should go die. Whatever.

Added headache?

I am in the middle of exams. Kind of not really in the mood to deal with this stuff and decide which brand of diapers I need to wrap around your soft, delicate, slightly rashed bottom. I am not sure if you guys are still rockin' the Huggies or if you are ready for the Big Boy Pullups yet.

Added headache?

[Matrim]

If the only purpose here is to have casual fun, why is your guild pulling mobs passed content through the floor and claiming bugged Vox kills as legit?

EQ is the best of the 'hardcore' mmo's. The nature of the game inspires crazy high play times and a competitive spirit. To my mind, those are good things. They keep this 10 year old game truly *exciting*.

A GM-enforced rotation, where there is no rush to compete, and everyone always gets an equal chance at raid mobs... that is NOT Everquest, and it's certainly not exciting.

[Wenai]

So where are they?
http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1057

[Wonton]

Thank you GM-Wenai. Also, thanks for trying to help me kick out a bugged character of mine.

I lost a 'bearskin potion bag' in a bugged trade during a phinny raid a few days ago. Any chance I could get reimbursed for the container? Much less the items inside.

[Kantan]

Thank you GM-Wenai. Also, thanks for trying to help me kick out a bugged character of mine.

I lost a 'bearskin potion bag' in a bugged trade during a phinny raid a few days ago. Any chance I could get reimbursed for the container? Much less the items inside.

Now for something important are you an aggie, a horn toad, or a cow?

[Hasbinbad]

Both guilds were asked to respect each other if they were there first. Both guilds were asked not to engage if the other guild was there first. Both guilds followed these instructions up until a point.
Granted.

Server rules were written a long time ago. They were on the original forums in the News section. Basically that entire forum was deleted some how (no idea how, I had no control over this) and they never got migrated to the new forums. All we had was an older rough draft of the rules which actually to be honest, I wrote the majority of the rules which were then passed on to and approved by Nilbog.
Regarding raid encounters, I have not been made aware either through my own research or the company of my peers of any guidance previous to the enforced rotation of vox and nagafen. Maybe this is my failure, but I consider myself a fairly thorough person, and if I missed it, many others may have as well.

If I had bothered to talk to you guys? I tried to talk to Otto on a few occasions, never really got anywhere. I know Aeolwind had tried to talk to Otto as well and also got no where. Talking to 20+ people at one time is really not efficient nor effective. It is up to your leader to go into discussions with myself or another member of the team and speak for your guild as a whole. Otto has talked to many of us on the team. It seems that your guild's opinion is that you are not happy with anything.
I think this is unfair. Unless Otto has been less than truthful, the times he has been contacted have been more about informing him as opposed to seeking input. Otto can you speak to this? Other GM's?

Not even going to address this as it is really not relevant at all. If you feel that you need to attack me personally then so be it, but not relevant to this thread whatsoever.
I apologize for the enthusiasm with which I responded to that comment, and you're right it does resemble a personal attack and I am wrong for that. That being said, I do think it is relevant to the topic because I am directly replying to your accusation against our ethics.

Our ethics are fucking unquestionable dude.

Reiker is the example brought up over and over but we almost didn't take him over that MQ shit. The guy did some stupid shit a long time ago when he was an officer in <Fine Steel Long Swords>, which was a different organization with different goals and different leadership. We gave him a chance, with the express knowledge that if such an incident happened in the future there would be a guild ban with no questions asked. If you don't have more evidence than that please stop beating that drum once and for all, it's getting to be like we're a married couple bringing shit up from 10 years ago.

People also talk about rogues using poisons.. All rogues used poisons up to a certain point. It was accepted. I talked with several GM's about it. They all seemed fine with it, and I was never told to post about it being bugged. Several GM's beisdes Xzerion have GLADLY benefitted in groups with their play-characters while I was using poisons. The very instant Xzerion said that the word came down that they were not to be used by anyone else, I as well as all IB rogues stopped using poison. Period. End of discussion. ..and we continued to not use them as per GM orders. This is more than I can say for some rogues in other organizations.

So yeah, excuse me for the tone of my voice, that was wrong, but do not dismiss the content of my words please, you questioned our ethics. I may tend to get heated when people question my ethics, and I apologize, but let me be absolutely clear:

We are an honorable organization that seeks to play this game by the rules as set out for us by the original intent of the developers of everquest as merged in philosophy with the GM team led by Nilbog. If we do something and you don't like it, give us options or tell us to stop. We will. We may fight like raptors to find some workaround, but we will stay within the lines when we color. Please stop trashing ethics without evidence. It's libel and we don't appreciate it.

You guys did respect myself and your fellow players up to a point. It got to a point where it was apparent that your group was not willing to follow directions anymore and wanted to write your own rules basically. Dragged ass on giving you server rules? I am not really following what you are talking about. The rules were posted during the beta for weeks, and then they were posted on these forums.
Your directions were allowing trans sick advantage and everyone knows it. This is the ugly elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring. You gave them power, without any agreement from us, to camp dragons for 14 hours. It's the end of the world, and Kutles is going to gate.

I have said time and time again that you guys never KS'd. The issue was that you were threatening to. You can call foul and say that it isn't KSing and it isn't camp stealing or whatever. Fact of the matter is that you were going outside the realm of what this server is about. That is not conduct we condone nor allow. We stepped in and stopped you from even having a chance to do that.
We were under no circumstances threatening to KS. We were intending on engaging the mob first as per our understanding of the rules of engagement on this server. Do we really need to argue out the semantics of KSing or can you concede that this was a solid premise to operate under given the lack of other guidance? If they were there doing the same thing, that is fine, but if the group that engaged first is not the group that got the kill, then a KS would have involuntarily occurred and it would require GM intervention to sort it. Yes we were trying to force your hand, but we knew that trans was about to start doing exactly what they proceeded to do and camp mobs for insane amounts of time because they recruit any scrub in ec tunnel without a tag (no offense to the good members of trans, but you know damn well what I'm talking about).

My buddies? Lol. Do you realize that I have been duoing/soloing ONLY for the past month and a half or more? I have one person on the server that I am in contact with regularly. I really have no ties and for the time being that is how it has to be.
Ok, maybe buddies was off target, but you can't tell me that you really don't see how biased this whole "system" is.

I generally hate entitled people, but we did kick ass in this server to be first with the gods and the dragons, and we really did get the rug pulled out from under our feet. We were raid ready and stuck farming rubi for weeks while the rest of the server caught up to dragon and possibly planes ready. For a new guild to just demand equal treatment right away when we were stripped of the rights at our first shot is demoralizing frankly. I think a little acknowledgment is due here. Look the fact is that while many of our guild are clamoring for pvp or whatever, a lot of us really don't mind sharing, but let's get real. We're the lion, trans is the hyena. Yeah, a pack of hyenas can kill a lion, but there is only one king of the jungle.

We have dominated every shred of content presented to us in a matter of fact way that speaks of skill. We've worked with every extra limitation you've placed on us and followed the rules. We've gone the extra mile in many cases and shown respect where no respect has been shown.

We've seen trans flounder even while exploiting and zerg every moderate success they can lay claim to. We've seen them endlessly troll, whine, beg, snivel, enter contortions of self-loathing, and generally squeak a lot over a long period of time. We've seen a few members of Trans show remarkable patience with the rest of their guild, seriously we don't understand how you guys put up with it.

The point is that you're showing favoritism to them by treating them fairly. They don't deserve it. They have lied, cheated, and stole their way to #2, and they will be #3 very quickly when Divinity spreads it's wings. They deserve suspensions or even bans in my opinion, although I hesitate at the brink of telling you how to do your job. Although we have butted heads, we deserve your respect Wenai, we have earned it, and you know it, which is the infuriating thing.

I had a lot more to say to the rest of your posts, but I think that last paragraph about does it for me today. I hope something comes of this.

[douglas1999]

lol

[Zexa]

Reiker is the example brought up over and over but we almost didn't take him over that MQ shit. The guy did some stupid shit a long time ago when he was an officer in <Fine Steel Long Swords>, which was a different organization with different goals and different leadership. We gave him a chance, with the express knowledge that if such an incident happened in the future there would be a guild ban with no questions asked. If you don't have more evidence than that please stop beating that drum once and for all, it's getting to be like we're a married couple bringing shit up from 10 years ago.

I'd like to double emphasize this since Reiker has become a red herring whenever IB tries to bring something relevant forth. Perhaps he would like to defend himself on any personal attacks, as it's not my place to do it for him, but I do admire that he did not try to hide who he was when he returned, even after creating a completely new character to play as a main. I want to go into depth on this because I find it comical that I was there when Tiki was banned(By Tumpy Tonic Tantalar). The reason I find humor in this is that he was in the middle of a long bug post on how to help fix the pathing in Lower Guk. I don't find the fact that he was trying to contribute to making this a better server for us all while while being banned comical. I find the fact that Tibador brought this up to defend himself funny. A GM himself exploiting the server's lack of pathing.

As long as he plays on this server Reiker will carry this brand, but he continues to do a lot to contribute to the server. I suppose it would have been easier to release your IP and create a new character on the server like some of the banned people I know did, but luck was on his side and it seems he'd rather not break connections and take the approach of atonement.

I don't intend to look like I'm blindly defending anyone who has violated the server rules, but I wanted to point out that any guild decision in this matter was -very- carefully thought out, and it has paid off well for us.

[Reiker]

I'd like to double emphasize this since Reiker has become a red herring whenever IB tries to bring something relevant forth. Perhaps he would like to defend himself on any personal attacks, as it's not my place to do it for him, but I do admire that he did not try to hide who he was when he returned, even after creating a completely new character to play as a main. I want to go into depth on this because I find it comical that I was there when Tiki was banned(By Tumpy Tonic Tantalar). The reason I find humor in this is that he was in the middle of a long bug post on how to help fix the pathing in Lower Guk. I don't find the fact that he was trying to contribute to making this a better server for us all while while being banned comical. I find the fact that Tibador brought this up to defend himself funny. A GM himself exploiting the server's lack of pathing.

As long as he plays on this server Reiker will carry this brand, but he continues to do a lot to contribute to the server. I suppose it would have been easier to release your IP and create a new character on the server like some of the banned people I know did, but luck was on his side and it seems he'd rather not break connections and take the approach of atonement.

I don't intend to look like I'm blindly defending anyone who has violated the server rules, but I wanted to point out that any guild decision in this matter was -very- carefully thought out, and it has paid off well for us.

I've defended myself on the Macroquest thing several times. Do a search and you'll find one of them easily. It's just getting annoying writing the same thing over and over. The difference between me and Tibador is I come forward and admit I fucked up, and try to offer up a defense. I've never once seen Tibador defend the Phinigel exploiting, and no, "but Reiker used MacroQuest over 2 months ago!" is not a defense.

[Wonton]

The whole phinny wall pulling exploit has been basically swept under the rug. gratz

[Supreme]

I'd like to double emphasize this since Reiker has become a red herring whenever IB tries to bring something relevant forth. Perhaps he would like to defend himself on any personal attacks, as it's not my place to do it for him, but I do admire that he did not try to hide who he was when he returned, even after creating a completely new character to play as a main. I want to go into depth on this because I find it comical that I was there when Tiki was banned(By Tumpy Tonic Tantalar). The reason I find humor in this is that he was in the middle of a long bug post on how to help fix the pathing in Lower Guk. I don't find the fact that he was trying to contribute to making this a better server for us all while while being banned comical. I find the fact that Tibador brought this up to defend himself funny. A GM himself exploiting the server's lack of pathing.

As long as he plays on this server Reiker will carry this brand, but he continues to do a lot to contribute to the server. I suppose it would have been easier to release your IP and create a new character on the server like some of the banned people I know did, but luck was on his side and it seems he'd rather not break connections and take the approach of atonement.

I don't intend to look like I'm blindly defending anyone who has violated the server rules, but I wanted to point out that any guild decision in this matter was -very- carefully thought out, and it has paid off well for us.

1000 attaboy does not make up for 1 awshit.

Sad fact of life.

[Supreme]

The whole phinny wall pulling exploit has been basically swept under the rug. gratz

Nah if enough people keep crying and complaining i am sure we can get a rotation of people to make posts to keep bringing it up.

[Wonton]

I think its a big deal when a GM / Guild leader sits back and O.K.'s something like that. enough of a deal for me to post 3 lines of mediocre thought

[Reiker]

I think its a big deal when a GM / Guild leader sits back and O.K.'s something like that. enough of a deal for me to post 3 lines of mediocre thought

+ when nothing is done, it sets the precedent that hey, exploiting is a-okay!

[Supreme]

+ when nothing is done, it sets the precedent that hey, exploiting is a-okay!

Of Course!!!

Thats why the GMs have acted so fast to take care of it..OMG!

Wait a min..maybe the GMs have acted and have recognized that it was not an exploit!

/GASP!

[Zexa]

1000 attaboy does not make up for 1 awshit.

Sad fact of life.

Thankfully we're here discussing Norrath. I'm not asking anyone to extend forgiveness onto anyone else. In fact I was if anything, I was attempting to condemn Tibador and it sounds like your logic is totally with me.

It sounds like we can make an agreement. We'll agree that neither Reiker nor Tibador can just make the past go away. No matter how many "attaboys" they perform. The only problem I see left is that one of those people is in a position of authority on the server...

[Supreme]

The only problem I see left is that one of those people is in a position of authority on the server...


But that is your problem and your perception.

[Hasbinbad]

But that is your problem and your perception.

It is not a perception, it is a fact. Tibador is A.K.A. GM-Zyrek and has a non-theoretical position of authority on this server which he has been shown to abuse several times when he has aided the exploitative downing of more than one boss encounter for loot.

It is not Zexa's problem, it is all of ours. If this is the precedent that is being accepted, there is no reason anyone should not exploit any and all content on this server. If they are going to let people who have been shown without any trace of doubt (video proof, admissions, what more do you want?) to be exploiting get away with it, we should all start exploiting everything right now. If "nothing" is what they do to tibador and allizia, then EXPLOITING IS OK BY THE DE FACTO RULES OF THE SERVER.

Again, this is everyone's problem. This server will be ruined by people exploiting mobs at every turn.. duos or even solos on raid bosses? sure! Why not if you can exploit the geometry or some bug? Sound good? Yeah, doesn't sound good to me either.

[Supreme]

It is not a perception, it is a fact. Tibador is A.K.A. GM-Zyrek and has a non-theoretical position of authority on this server which he has been shown to abuse several times when he has aided the exploitative downing of more than one boss encounter for loot.

It is not Zexa's problem, it is all of ours. If this is the precedent that is being accepted, there is no reason anyone should not exploit any and all content on this server. If they are going to let people who have been shown without any trace of doubt (video proof, admissions, what more do you want?) to be exploiting get away with it, we should all start exploiting everything right now. If "nothing" is what they do to tibador and allizia, then EXPLOITING IS OK BY THE DE FACTO RULES OF THE SERVER.

Again, this is everyone's problem. This server will be ruined by people exploiting mobs at every turn.. duos or even solos on raid bosses? sure! Why not if you can exploit the geometry or some bug? Sound good? Yeah, doesn't sound good to me either.

/facepalm

It is his perception that it is an exploit because no GM has stated anything to reinforce the accusation! Someone using MQ to warp/target/whatever and a player dealing with buggy pathing on a raid mob is much different. They still had to fight the boss they still had to do the work. This is not High Keep bards we are dealing with where there was no risk. It was bugged pathing and it was reported many times on these forums by a representative of Transcendence.

You guys are really grasping at straws here. You are using "phinny pulled through a wall" as a effigy for your frustrations that you will have to actually accept a compromise. It is not working out for you guys.

Stop trying to over think the issue and shift the discussion to something that matters.

Like a solution for how to handle raid mobs.

[Zexa]

Supreme. You seem to be misinformed on this situation. There has been a warning given to Trans already about how the encounter is supposed to work. Aeolwind replied to a post about it not being legit.

[Hasbinbad]

/facepalm

It is his perception that it is an exploit because no GM has stated anything to reinforce the accusation! Someone using MQ to warp/target/whatever and a player dealing with buggy pathing on a raid mob is much different. They still had to fight the boss they still had to do the work. This is not High Keep bards we are dealing with where there was no risk. It was bugged pathing and it was reported many times on these forums by a representative of Transcendence.

You guys are really grasping at straws here. You are using "phinny pulled through a wall" as a effigy for your frustrations that you will have to actually accept a compromise. It is not working out for you guys.

Stop trying to over think the issue and shift the discussion to something that matters.

Like a solution for how to handle raid mobs.

You're an ignorant troll trying to get a rise, but in case others who are not so quick to make judgements based on ignorance are reading, I will explain.

Phinny is a pushover. He is the easiest "boss" in classic.

The four seahorses guarding phinny are *MUCH* harder to break and kill than phinegal.

We are *not* disputing trans's ability to kill phinegal, should they meet him in a proper encounter. What we *are* disputing is the method they used to pull phinegal past the seahorses without killing them. The bypassed the encounter as it was intended and on top of that they were warned about this specific behavior prior to doing it.

When trans killed "vox," she had no ae. Instead of stopping the encounter, repopping vox properly (which is well within tibador's powers and scope), and then continuing on a non-bugged vox, they killed her and looted her and waited until later to petition it.

trans and divinity attempted mayong, but he had no ae. secrets stopped the encounter and repopped mayong (again buggy, without the script as set by aeolwind after our last encounter with him).

When trans killed "mayong," he had no ae (sound familiar?). Instead of stopping the encounter, repopping mayong properly (which is well within tibador's powers and scope), and then continuing on a non-bugged mayong, they killed him and looted him (sound familiar?). The fact that secrets set the precedent for stopping the enounter should have sent a signal to trans that mayong was buggy and was supposed to have an ae. At this point apparently secrets logged. Tibador still had the opportunity to do the right thing, but chose to let his exploitative raidforce finish the encounter and obtain loot.

[Taluvill]

I'm not trying to cause a issue, but some people bringing up the Phinny encounter with Tibador+Allizia and others bringing up the whole Reiker deal seems like *somewhat* close to the same deal.

Both sides are being extremely hypocritical IMHO, regardless of which side I belong to. We all sound like high school girls rather than grown human beings. fuckin a haha :)




PS: I'm not an authority on either situation as I barely know Tiki/Reiker and have yet to be at a Phinny encounter here due to school and other RL things, so don't condemn me on either part, just trying to point out something :)

[Nizzarr]

For the records, it would have been highly unlikely for them to be able to do phinny legitly that night with their nine poeple present, only 2 pet classes and no tank.

even if they did split the 4 pull, killing 4 CH'ing mob with just 1 basher and so little dps under 22 minute is very very very unlikely.

IB did it with 8 poeple once, we had a cleric, 4 mages, 1 necro, 1 wizard and a druid. Respawn was very tight and we barely pulled it off.

[Xzerion]

Of Course!!!

Thats why the GMs have acted so fast to take care of it..OMG!

Wait a min..maybe the GMs have acted and have recognized that it was not an exploit!

/GASP!

Don't fool yourself

[Hasbinbad]

I'm not trying to cause a issue, but some people bringing up the Phinny encounter with Tibador+Allizia and others bringing up the whole Reiker deal seems like *somewhat* close to the same deal.

While I agree that the offenses are somewhat similar, there are two VERY important distinctions between the two situations.

One one hand you have Reiker. Reiker is a jackass. A very smart, very shrewd jackass. Reiker was a player on p1999 when he cheated. Reiker was caught and banned, and then unbanned due to the "letting the terrorists win" actions when they unbanned everyone.

Reiker was found to be cheating on MUCH less evidence that we have provided and banned immediately.

On the other hand, you have Tibador. Tibador is a GM. A very sloppy, very uncoordinated GM. Tibador was a GM when he cheated. Tibador was caught and admitted wrongdoing, but so far nothing has been done.

On the other hand, you have Allizia. Allizia is the guildleader of the guild which the GM's are so concerned about being fair with. Allizia was a guildleader when he cheated. Allizia was caught and admitted wrongdoing, but so far nothing has been done.

Tibador and Allizia are in positions of power. People in positions of power who abuse this power to break rules should be punished in a harsher way that normal people who break rules. YET NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE. Reiker was a player. HE WAS BANNED INSTANTLY.

You really don't see the issue here?

[Hasbinbad]

So another bugged vox killed by Trans. Great work here guys. Way to be on the ball.

Can you do something now?
Do we need to get you more videos?

[Reiker]

I can't even sleep without Trans exploiting raids. Think I gotta hand over my fraps cam before I go to bed.

Whoever said I used MQ to warp, fuck you. I've never used any hard hacks on any emu server ever. I had MQ loaded well over 2 months before IB was even a guild and the worst things I did were invite someone to my group who wasn't near me and /target a mob through a wall to lull. Big fucking deal. I've apologized and admitted my wrongdoings 10,000 times over, had an extremely difficult app process to IB and I'm still getting persecuted, which I expect. I also expect you to give the same scrutiny to your leadership who have so far OK'ed exploiting at least 2 Phinnies, 2 Voxes, and 1 Mayong Mistmoore. I'm sure once you get to Fear and realize you have no chance of killing Cazic Thule, all of his abilities will be removed as well. Cheating is being rewarded on Project 1999 and if any of you were in our shoes you'd be just as frustrated.

[Bigcountry23]

Cheating is being rewarded on Project 1999 and if any of you were in our shoes you'd be just as frustrated.

Yep, only one solution.

http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/data/roadbike/500/NukeOrbit.jpg

[Taluvill]

While I agree that the offenses are somewhat similar, there are two VERY important distinctions between the two situations.

One one hand you have Reiker. Reiker is a jackass. A very smart, very shrewd jackass. Reiker was a player on p1999 when he cheated. Reiker was caught and banned, and then unbanned due to the "letting the terrorists win" actions when they unbanned everyone.

Reiker was found to be cheating on MUCH less evidence that we have provided and banned immediately.

On the other hand, you have Tibador. Tibador is a GM. A very sloppy, very uncoordinated GM. Tibador was a GM when he cheated. Tibador was caught and admitted wrongdoing, but so far nothing has been done.

On the other hand, you have Allizia. Allizia is the guildleader of the guild which the GM's are so concerned about being fair with. Allizia was a guildleader when he cheated. Allizia was caught and admitted wrongdoing, but so far nothing has been done.

Tibador and Allizia are in positions of power. People in positions of power who abuse this power to break rules should be punished in a harsher way that normal people who break rules. YET NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE. Reiker was a player. HE WAS BANNED INSTANTLY.

You really don't see the issue here?

alright, the only part of this i have an issue with is this:

A very sloppy, very uncoordinated GM.

I guess this isn't exactly an "attack" at someone, but you knew what was happening and when was meant when you said it, and i can't just sit back and watch someone bitch and complain about the guild leader.

I hate to bring this up, but Did you guys give back the loot for the first naggy kill when you had the hacked characters with you? I dont think you did, may be wrong though. I'm pretty positive we would give the loot back from the kills where we had any issues with, Phinny and Vox included(although don't let me speak for the guild...), seems close to the same situation, but with different technicalities obviously.

And Vox is supposed to be 6pm central tonight, So idk if they killed it, but i'll have to get on and see.




About the Reiker and Tib/Allizia thing, Yes, IMHO its the same situation. Yes he was cheating. Yes, Tib and Allizia Exploit pulled. Big fucking whoop. Does that mean that any encounter with reiker or group with reiker should have experience/loot gained revoked? No. Is the loot for phinny going to get revoked? most likely no.

Both situations were wrong, and all that i'm saying is that people keep dragging both situations up because its one of the few provable greivances we have with each other. We both know other things happened, just don't *always* have proof.

hehe Im just saying lets stop our fighting and complaining bullshit.

PS: go read Hasbinbads post on the idea for spawns, looks pretty tight. His idea (with my obvious modifications hehe) is my Number one, and Bubbles idea is my Number 2. Fun stuff tbh = D

[Zarniwooop]

First to engage is what has worked over MANY servers for MANY years. Other than selfishness and immaturity their is no reason to protest a first to engage.


Flat out wrong.

[Taluvill]

and 1 Mayong Mistmoore.

BTW, Technically its the same MM that you guys got loot from too, so its tough to bring that one up, whether you were testing or not.

Blame Secrets for the wrong repop on that one.

[Penoy]

To the GM Staff of Project 1999:

I don't understand why the rotation was such a priority. We had shown good faith when we dealt with Lady Vox during the DDOS. On the other hand, there has been documented proof presented of Allizia and Tibador exploiting after specifically being warned about the Phinny pull. Then, on top of that, not fixing an obviously broken Vox before they downed her.



Both guilds have cheaters/exploiters... Like i said before IB had a charmed Amgydalia Knight or however you spell it, that was Harmtouching every 2 seconds, and was going around killing mobs. That is very well an exploit, but we still used it. I know that some players in IB have used hacks IE Tirooph, was using speed hacks...... but Otto... i seen you kill yourself down from 48 to like 42.... just to do gnomes...and get rezzes when finished, as well as using poisons that were too strong...not sure if thats an exploit.

[Zexa]

Both guilds have cheaters/exploiters... Like i said before IB had a charmed Amgydalia Knight or however you spell it, that was Harmtouching every 2 seconds, and was going around killing mobs. That is very well an exploit, but we still used it. I know that some players in IB have used hacks IE Tirooph, was using speed hacks...... but Otto... i seen you kill yourself down from 48 to like 42.... just to do gnomes...and get rezzes when finished, as well as using poisons that were too strong...not sure if thats an exploit.

Tirooph was with us, what? 1 day before he was banned. He wasn't a member and you won't find anyone arguing that someone using speed hacks should not be banned. You seem pretty butt hurt all of a sudden. You know that the second poisons were stated to be over powered Otto and Hasbin both banked all their poisons(even though other rogues were still seen using them and nothing was done about it). Don't drag those two through the mud just because you are upset. Neither one of them complained at all when they were told poisons were off the table. I was there in vent when it happened. Sorry you couldn't see it on DACRUSHA.

[Penoy]

Tirooph was with us, what? 1 day before he was banned. He wasn't a member and you won't find anyone arguing that someone using speed hacks should not be banned. You seem pretty butt hurt all of a sudden. You know that the second poisons were stated to be over powered Otto and Hasbin both banked all their poisons(even though other rogues were still seen using them and nothing was done about it). Don't drag those two through the mud just because you are upset. Neither one of them complained at all when they were told poisons were off the table. I was there in vent when it happened. Sorry you couldn't see it on DACRUSHA.

Well technically he was a member...the trial period was used after Cohort and draum. and the poisons used on Naggy!.. they said they were overpowered and still was used... anything about deleveling?.... just letting people know from someone who was on the inside...and i still havent heard a response for using a bugged mob as a pet

[Zexa]

I'm telling you about facts that I know, discrediting rumors you are spreading. From the very second they were told not to use poisons they banked them until they were told it was allowed again.

[Penoy]

I'm telling you about facts that I know, discrediting rumors you are spreading. From the very second they were told not to use poisons they banked them until they were told it was allowed again.

i dont doubt that....but thats the same as doing the tumpy tonic quest...until a higher figure told them to stop...i guess its ok to do... and still any word on why a bugged mob was charmed...seeing that transc was roasted for charming a kunark mob... using a mob that HT every second to kill mobs in fear is ok

[Allizia]

i dont doubt that....but thats the same as doing the tumpy tonic quest...until a higher figure told them to stop...i guess its ok to do... and still any word on why a bugged mob was charmed...seeing that transc was roasted for charming a kunark mob... using a mob that HT every second to kill mobs in fear is ok

With a Dev/GM present I'm sure (No I'm not going to point fingers), imagine that. Lets call it even and stop all the drama? If we pointed out every screw up anyone has ever committed we would be here for a long time and get nowhere. Not going to raze the forums and mass harass other players like what happened with my Phinny pull.

I still skip seahorses when I kill Phinny, I just do it a different way (it's actually easier and less painful then the pull you saw, unless you are a gnome).

You still would have cleared fear/got level 50 it would have just taken longer and it was fixed.

[Otto]

I think its funny the situations have been put on a level ground, as we reported the bug and twas fixed right away and were not directly disobeying poison usage after it was decreed by GMs not to use them.

Nice try penoy =p

[Hasbinbad]

Yeah, that knight was used until it was determined to be completely fucked by the gm we told to come look at it iirc Rogean? We might have gotten through ten trash mobs a twitch faster. Are you fucking kidding me about Draum? Those scrubs had bronze on and hardly even contributed. Any two other people would have filled their shoes. We didn't know they were hacked and they didn't use any hacked methods beyond the ability of 2 undergeared players. They were in the wrong, IB has nothing to apologize for here.

Obviously on the same level as knowingly exploiting pathing to bypass an encounter and allowing players to kill and loot raid bosses with completely non-functioning scripts.

People keep bringing up our Mayong kill, but one very important difference between that situation and the ones we present is that we were cooperating with a dev GM who was actively tweaking the encounter based on our engagement. Call it beta testing or whatever, whine all you want. The fact is that we actually killed a pretty buff Mayong before the GM decided the script needed to be overhauled. That GM decided that our efforts warranted a reward and granted the item. Call it favoritism or whine however you want, this is the way it is. It most certainly is not however, an exploit. I just cannot believe that you people will just make shit up and spout it as if it is truth.

If you weren't there, shut your fucking mouth.

We WERE there, we DID see, we GOT IT ON VIDEO.

[Penoy]

Yeah, that knight was used until it was determined to be completely fucked by the gm we told to come look at it iirc Rogean? We might have gotten through ten trash mobs a twitch faster.


so its ok to use an exploit til its deemed completely fucked... so its ok that magic leveled his druid to 50 with tumpy tonics... it wasnt deemed completely fucked until GMs got it... and we used the knight..til it eventually got us wiped....

[Penoy]

I think its funny the situations have been put on a level ground, as we reported the bug and twas fixed right away and were not directly disobeying poison usage after it was decreed by GMs not to use them.

Nice try penoy =p

i remember you saying the poisons were too OP... and still using them.. yes GMs didnt say anything yet..and its probably why we kileld Naggy the 1st time maybe..but you never know..and it doesnt matter

[Hasbinbad]

so its ok to use an exploit til its deemed completely fucked... so its ok that magic leveled his druid to 50 with tumpy tonics... it wasnt deemed completely fucked until GMs got it... and we used the knight..til it eventually got us wiped....
Meh, you can try and draw false analogies all day long Penoy, but I think we both know that's beneath you. I know you're a dick but you never seemed petty to me. I'm not defending the use of the Knights, I didn't think that was right; to say that charming a mob we had to face (risk vs. reward ethic) (and which like you said ended up wiping us) is anywhere near the same as using an obvious bug to gain 50 levels.. ..that's just retarded. I don't think you're a retard Penoy, but you're doing retarded things and I wish you would stop. If you honestly have or ever had a gripe about how IB runs things, you would and should have reported it long before now. That you are doing it now signals to everyone involved that you are doing it simply to spite us. That's kind of messed up man. I know everyone hates you, and yeah, I even hate you kind of. But you know this and you fostered it - it was fun. I understand it. You know this. You don't need to turn on everyone just because some people couldn't take your shit anymore. I would fight for you if I could man, but what they say is true and I don't really have a leg to stand on. Please don't start throwing false and overblown accusations at all of us because you have issues with some of us.

[Penoy]

Meh, you can try and draw false analogies all day long Penoy, but I think we both know that's beneath you. I know you're a dick but you never seemed petty to me. I'm not defending the use of the Knights, I didn't think that was right; to say that charming a mob we had to face (risk vs. reward ethic) (and which like you said ended up wiping us) is anywhere near the same as using an obvious bug to gain 50 levels.. ..that's just retarded. I don't think you're a retard Penoy, but you're doing retarded things and I wish you would stop. If you honestly have or ever had a gripe about how IB runs things, you would and should have reported it long before now. That you are doing it now signals to everyone involved that you are doing it simply to spite us. That's kind of messed up man. I know everyone hates you, and yeah, I even hate you kind of. But you know this and you fostered it - it was fun. I understand it. You know this. You don't need to turn on everyone just because some people couldn't take your shit anymore. I would fight for you if I could man, but what they say is true and I don't really have a leg to stand on. Please don't start throwing false and overblown accusations at all of us because you have issues with some of us.

you know your my homie since day 1 hasbin since gnomercys silent treatment and the JV groups in crushbone(which i was never in!)...... i just wanted everyone to know the WHOLE truth ... ya the "risk reward" might be totally different with my analogy but an exploit is an exploit...

[Hasbinbad]

you know your my homie since day 1 hasbin since gnomercys silent treatment and the JV groups in crushbone(which i was never in!)...... i just wanted everyone to know the WHOLE truth ... ya the "risk reward" might be totally different with my analogy but an exploit is an exploit...
Penoy, your logic as I see it is as follows:

All ants are animals.
All elephants are animals.
Therefore, all ants are elephants.

This is a classic breach in logic, and is used to show people how ludicrous it is to extrapolate the general from the specific.

[Zexa]

Thread derailed. Recovery impossible.

Perhaps the mods thought this was the Rants & Flames section.

[Hasbinbad]

Thread derailed. Recovery impossible.

Perhaps the mods thought this was the Rants & Flames section.
Disagree:
To the GM Staff of Project 1999:

I understand all of the hard work you've put in for this server to be what it is.

Actually, I don't. And I sincerely doubt ANYONE here can fully understand the amount of work you have put in for well over a year on this project. I would like to think that everyone is grateful for your work, but as we have seen over the past 2+ months, some people don't care.

There are your MacroQuesters, your Dupers, your two-boxers, your exploiters & cheaters. These individuals are specifically going against your wishes and destroying the integrity of the server. You have dealt with many of them, and some have been given second chances. However, some have not been dealt with. This is where the issue arises.

If you would stop sticking your heads into the raid target situation, you could deal with factual evidence of people exploiting, server development, and maybe even have a moment or two of relaxation!

Lets look at how this developed:

Raid targets begin as IB downs naggy 2x.
Server attack, Trans gets a shot at naggy.
Aeolwind pulls myself and Allizia aside to see if we can come to agreement.
One is not set in stone, but an idea is layed out.
IB moves on to kill vox, clear fear, kill Draco + CT. IB then downs naggy again.
Trans moves in to Permafrost for 14 hours.
Trans wipes to Lady Vox.
We were prepped and ready to go should this be the case, but we decide against it due to lag from DDOS (in good faith, in the spirit of fairness, and against our own self-interest).
After 3hours of patiently waiting for them to have a fair attempt, we leave. The ddos lag was too bad.
I receive a call at 1ish in the morning saying Trans had just killed a Vox that wasn't AEing. Rather than Tibador logging on his GM and reloading the PL (as has been done with us SEVERAL times), they just kill him.
They act as if its a legit Vox kill, and don't petition until afterwards. Whatever, deep breath, moving on:
Fear goes down for maintenance.
Trans moves into solb for 14 hours.
We decide to move in and attempt to be first to engage as the rules imply that we should.
Wenai steps in and sets up a server rotation with Aeolwind.
At no point in that pile of nonsense was there ever word to me about a rotation being enforced. I don't know who were the ones QQing and whining to you, but it certainly wasn't IB. It was a one sided complaint that you gave in to. It was only after this stupid rotation that you've implemented in which we started to bring our concerns to you. It seems to me that rather than dealing with the problem properly, you gave into people whining about not getting content handed to them. If you left it to the guilds, it would always be a competition for mobs; first prepared and first to engage.

I don't understand why the rotation was such a priority. We had shown good faith when we dealt with Lady Vox during the DDOS. On the other hand, there has been documented proof presented of Allizia and Tibador exploiting after specifically being warned about the Phinny pull. Then, on top of that, not fixing an obviously broken Vox before they downed her.

These issues have been brought to your attention as of one week ago today. A Whole week, and no repercussions. This is _sad_ when you consider the fact that we now have a 14 day MINIMUM ban hammer over our heads for handling raid targets in the classic manner.

Rather than giving it time to play out and see where it would lead, we've had to watch the GM's waste huge amounts of their time developing a very poor rotation which we are forced to follow for fear of a 14 day ban. This is just causing more ungratefulness for the server, and even more complaints. Please focus on the server, the broken content, and those who are exploiting it rather than the guild drama that is extremely one sided.

[Zexa]

I'm talking about Penoy trying to continue bringing up anything he can to ease his butt-hurtitits.

[Hasbinbad]

I'm talking about Penoy trying to continue bringing up anything he can to ease his butt-hurtitits.
You're further derailing this thread! :P

Let's focus on the Kool-Aid Krew exploits and rouse rabble to get something done about it instead.

RABBLE, RABBLE, RABBLE!!

[Penoy]

just bringing up that even the mighty IB has used exploits...and that theres alot of nerdraging but GM favoritism has been going on for both parties... they let some things slide

[Zexa]

Ohh I get what you were doing now Hasbin. I thought you were saying it was all on topic with what you quoted, but you were redirecting us.

Got it. Back on track. Penoy ignored. Problem solved.

[Hasbinbad]

RABBLE!!

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!

Do something about GM's exploiting mobs please.

At this point, I don't even care if there's a punishment, I just want it to stop.

[Penoy]

I think its funny the situations have been put on a level ground, as we reported the bug and twas fixed right away and were not directly disobeying poison usage after it was decreed by GMs not to use them.

Nice try penoy =p

i understand you stopped when GMs told ya... but what about you deleveling yourself like 5 levels just to do gnomes and rez yourself to 50 Otto.... Im not sure if thats an exploit but... if anyone is stuck around level 48 and cant xp fast enough... Otto yourself to 50!

[Otto]

i understand you stopped when GMs told ya... but what about you deleveling yourself like 5 levels just to do gnomes and rez yourself to 50 Otto.... Im not sure if thats an exploit but... if anyone is stuck around level 48 and cant xp fast enough... Otto yourself to 50!

baw baw baw

[Penoy]

baw baw baw

:) is there a GM that can tell me if this is legal? Xzerion?

[Otto]

:) is there a GM that can tell me if this is legal? Xzerion?

I'm amazed you need clarification on whether or not saving corpses to res later is legal or not.

We're past page 8 and there is still no GM response on what this topic was about.

[Penoy]

I'm amazed you need clarification on whether or not saving corpses to res later is legal or not.

We're past page 8 and there is still no GM response on what this topic was about.

ok great..so anyone in a hell level 44... delevel yourself to 40... and i will power level you back to 44 doing gnomes...and ill get ya rezes!!! PST

[Wenai]

:) is there a GM that can tell me if this is legal? Xzerion?
I would say it is not an exploit but kind of reminds me of something that I had forgotten about. Corpses are only supposed to have a 3 hour /played time to get an exp rez. So in a sense it should not be possible, but due to this timer being missing it is possible. Certainly not something I would punish someone for.

[Penoy]

I would say it is not an exploit but kind of reminds me of something that I had forgotten about. Corpses are only supposed to have a 3 hour /played time to get an exp rez. So in a sense it should not be possible, but due to this timer being missing it is possible. Certainly not something I would punish someone for.

So to reiterate what i was saying, if anyone stuck on level 44.. delevel yourself to 40... and i will personally level you to 44 and pay for your rezzes!!! and i will give you a manastone!... strike while the rez timer is still missing and its un punishable!

[Wenai]

So to reiterate what i was saying, if anyone stuck on level 44.. delevel yourself to 40... and i will personally level you to 44 and pay for your rezzes!!! and i will give you a manastone!... strike while the rez timer is still missing and its un punishable!
It is no different from someone saving a collection of corpses and then paying a CLR to run around rezzing them all with like 24hrs left until it expires.

That being said.. What would the point of this method be? Sol A isn't the only zone with a ZEM anymore? /boggle.

[Penoy]

It is no different from someone saving a collection of corpses and then paying a CLR to run around rezzing them all with like 24hrs left until it expires.

That being said.. What would the point of this method be? Sol A isn't the only zone with a ZEM anymore? /boggle.

its the best imo.. its empty now... and theres a bunch of mobs...but now instead of having a hell level you can skip it!

[Witness]

It is no different from someone saving a collection of corpses and then paying a CLR to run around rezzing them all with like 24hrs left until it expires.

That being said.. What would the point of this method be? Sol A isn't the only zone with a ZEM anymore? /boggle.

I think his point may be that certain easy camps may become green at 48/49 and instead of moving to a harder camp (which is the way a game was intended) delevel back down to level 44..stay at the same, easier camp til 48 and then rez to 50.

[Wenai]

I think his point may be that certain easy camps may become green at 48/49 and instead of moving to a harder camp (which is the way a game was intended) delevel back down to level 44..stay at the same, easier camp til 48 and then rez to 50.
I understand. It is something I took note of a long time ago. I personally do not handle source issues but I will see what I can scrounge up in terms of begging folk to take a look at it for me. ;)

[Goobles]

The fact of the matter is, there is NOT enough content for the raiding guilds to kill.

Amendment: release hate/sky/solro.. give them something to do..

Before long, there will be another 2-3 high level guilds competing for the same mobs. Then guilds will only have a shot at Naggy/Vox once a month?!!

Either lower spawn times to 3.5 days each, and keep your rotation.. or release more shit.

Thanks.

[Goobles]

And gdi, please answer my petition - it's been in queue for 3 days, and takes 5 minutes to resolve!

[Hasbinbad]

The fact of the matter is, there is NOT enough content for the raiding guilds to kill.

Amendment: release hate/sky/solro.. give them something to do..

Before long, there will be another 2-3 high level guilds competing for the same mobs. Then guilds will only have a shot at Naggy/Vox once a month?!!

Either lower spawn times to 3.5 days each, and keep your rotation.. or release more shit.

Thanks.
I am so glad Goobles is not in IB anymore. Enjoying our rejects, Trans?
Also:
To the GM Staff of Project 1999:

I understand all of the hard work you've put in for this server to be what it is.

Actually, I don't. And I sincerely doubt ANYONE here can fully understand the amount of work you have put in for well over a year on this project. I would like to think that everyone is grateful for your work, but as we have seen over the past 2+ months, some people don't care.

There are your MacroQuesters, your Dupers, your two-boxers, your exploiters & cheaters. These individuals are specifically going against your wishes and destroying the integrity of the server. You have dealt with many of them, and some have been given second chances. However, some have not been dealt with. This is where the issue arises.

If you would stop sticking your heads into the raid target situation, you could deal with factual evidence of people exploiting, server development, and maybe even have a moment or two of relaxation!

Lets look at how this developed:

Raid targets begin as IB downs naggy 2x.
Server attack, Trans gets a shot at naggy.
Aeolwind pulls myself and Allizia aside to see if we can come to agreement.
One is not set in stone, but an idea is layed out.
IB moves on to kill vox, clear fear, kill Draco + CT. IB then downs naggy again.
Trans moves in to Permafrost for 14 hours.
Trans wipes to Lady Vox.
We were prepped and ready to go should this be the case, but we decide against it due to lag from DDOS (in good faith, in the spirit of fairness, and against our own self-interest).
After 3hours of patiently waiting for them to have a fair attempt, we leave. The ddos lag was too bad.
I receive a call at 1ish in the morning saying Trans had just killed a Vox that wasn't AEing. Rather than Tibador logging on his GM and reloading the PL (as has been done with us SEVERAL times), they just kill him.
They act as if its a legit Vox kill, and don't petition until afterwards. Whatever, deep breath, moving on:
Fear goes down for maintenance.
Trans moves into solb for 14 hours.
We decide to move in and attempt to be first to engage as the rules imply that we should.
Wenai steps in and sets up a server rotation with Aeolwind.
At no point in that pile of nonsense was there ever word to me about a rotation being enforced. I don't know who were the ones QQing and whining to you, but it certainly wasn't IB. It was a one sided complaint that you gave in to. It was only after this stupid rotation that you've implemented in which we started to bring our concerns to you. It seems to me that rather than dealing with the problem properly, you gave into people whining about not getting content handed to them. If you left it to the guilds, it would always be a competition for mobs; first prepared and first to engage.

I don't understand why the rotation was such a priority. We had shown good faith when we dealt with Lady Vox during the DDOS. On the other hand, there has been documented proof presented of Allizia and Tibador exploiting after specifically being warned about the Phinny pull. Then, on top of that, not fixing an obviously broken Vox before they downed her.

These issues have been brought to your attention as of one week ago today. A Whole week, and no repercussions. This is _sad_ when you consider the fact that we now have a 14 day MINIMUM ban hammer over our heads for handling raid targets in the classic manner.

Rather than giving it time to play out and see where it would lead, we've had to watch the GM's waste huge amounts of their time developing a very poor rotation which we are forced to follow for fear of a 14 day ban. This is just causing more ungratefulness for the server, and even more complaints. Please focus on the server, the broken content, and those who are exploiting it rather than the guild drama that is extremely one sided.

[Goobles]

You're such a douchebag Hasbin. How is that working out for you? You must have successful relations irl and such, right? Or is maintining a douchebag attitude on a character in EQ the only thing that is important to you?

[Hasbinbad]

You're such a douchebag Hasbin. How is that working out for you? You must have successful relations irl and such, right? Or is maintining a douchebag attitude on a character in EQ the only thing that is important to you?

I am so glad Goobles is not in IB anymore. Enjoying our rejects, Trans?
Also:
To the GM Staff of Project 1999:

I understand all of the hard work you've put in for this server to be what it is.

Actually, I don't. And I sincerely doubt ANYONE here can fully understand the amount of work you have put in for well over a year on this project. I would like to think that everyone is grateful for your work, but as we have seen over the past 2+ months, some people don't care.

There are your MacroQuesters, your Dupers, your two-boxers, your exploiters & cheaters. These individuals are specifically going against your wishes and destroying the integrity of the server. You have dealt with many of them, and some have been given second chances. However, some have not been dealt with. This is where the issue arises.

If you would stop sticking your heads into the raid target situation, you could deal with factual evidence of people exploiting, server development, and maybe even have a moment or two of relaxation!

Lets look at how this developed:

Raid targets begin as IB downs naggy 2x.
Server attack, Trans gets a shot at naggy.
Aeolwind pulls myself and Allizia aside to see if we can come to agreement.
One is not set in stone, but an idea is layed out.
IB moves on to kill vox, clear fear, kill Draco + CT. IB then downs naggy again.
Trans moves in to Permafrost for 14 hours.
Trans wipes to Lady Vox.
We were prepped and ready to go should this be the case, but we decide against it due to lag from DDOS (in good faith, in the spirit of fairness, and against our own self-interest).
After 3hours of patiently waiting for them to have a fair attempt, we leave. The ddos lag was too bad.
I receive a call at 1ish in the morning saying Trans had just killed a Vox that wasn't AEing. Rather than Tibador logging on his GM and reloading the PL (as has been done with us SEVERAL times), they just kill him.
They act as if its a legit Vox kill, and don't petition until afterwards. Whatever, deep breath, moving on:
Fear goes down for maintenance.
Trans moves into solb for 14 hours.
We decide to move in and attempt to be first to engage as the rules imply that we should.
Wenai steps in and sets up a server rotation with Aeolwind.
At no point in that pile of nonsense was there ever word to me about a rotation being enforced. I don't know who were the ones QQing and whining to you, but it certainly wasn't IB. It was a one sided complaint that you gave in to. It was only after this stupid rotation that you've implemented in which we started to bring our concerns to you. It seems to me that rather than dealing with the problem properly, you gave into people whining about not getting content handed to them. If you left it to the guilds, it would always be a competition for mobs; first prepared and first to engage.

I don't understand why the rotation was such a priority. We had shown good faith when we dealt with Lady Vox during the DDOS. On the other hand, there has been documented proof presented of Allizia and Tibador exploiting after specifically being warned about the Phinny pull. Then, on top of that, not fixing an obviously broken Vox before they downed her.

These issues have been brought to your attention as of one week ago today. A Whole week, and no repercussions. This is _sad_ when you consider the fact that we now have a 14 day MINIMUM ban hammer over our heads for handling raid targets in the classic manner.

Rather than giving it time to play out and see where it would lead, we've had to watch the GM's waste huge amounts of their time developing a very poor rotation which we are forced to follow for fear of a 14 day ban. This is just causing more ungratefulness for the server, and even more complaints. Please focus on the server, the broken content, and those who are exploiting it rather than the guild drama that is extremely one sided.

[Bodeanicus]

Being completely new, and objective, to this server, I'm sitting here thinking "What a bunch of crybaby bitches."

Here's a solution: total server wipe.

Won't mean shit to me. And I'll still play. Because it's a fucking game, and nobody gives a shit about who fucked who.

Jesus christ, grow up, you bunch of pussies.

[Widan]

How come every thread on these forums is just Hasbinbad posting useless shit over and over again. Is anyone modding the forums?

[Goobles]

Being completely new, and objective, to this server, I'm sitting here thinking "What a bunch of crybaby bitches."

Here's a solution: total server wipe.

Won't mean shit to me. And I'll still play. Because it's a fucking game, and nobody gives a shit about who fucked who.

Jesus christ, grow up, you bunch of pussies.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/RiddlN/issue.jpg

Just fucking nailed it, sir.

[Bigcountry23]

How come every thread on these forums is just Hasbinbad posting useless shit over and over again. Is anyone modding the forums?

Should be ended. From the history/FAQ post.

I have recently started a blitz campaign on your forums because I saw nothing happening to address valid issues.

Now that I see this, I will stop. Thank you for at least acknowledging that there is a problem.

[darkkor]

On live this is exactly how it was. Guilds A, B, and C have their tracker locate a mob. Guild A and B mobilize instantly, C is late. Then, Guild A and B begin to buff. Guild A finishes first and engages. Guild B then has to wait, and C is just finally zoning in. Should Guild A wipe, Guild b gets a shot, if guild b wipes, then guild C (So long as they are prepared before guild A finishes their corpse run).

I have been following this entire situation for a few weeks now. I must say I agree with this quote completely. But....

The problem is it just doesn't work out like that (at least it hasn't from everything I've been hearing about all the GM intervention that was going on before this rotation). 2 giant groups of people both trying to hit something first, there's no way to tell who tagged it. Then it turns into who has the most DPS and that could mean the first to engage might lose the kill. This is the exact basis of many petitions from weeks ago from what I hear.

It's messier than what you're admitting it to be. The GM's had to take action multiple times due to complaints from both sides. Maybe I have my information completely wrong. Regardless, below is how I feel it would work best while still retaining the whole "racing for mobs" classic-ness.

From what I remember on my old server, whoever GOT THERE first got the first shot, then it would go back and forth after until someone killed it. There were some time specific rules too I think, IE - you cant get there 14 hours early to claim it, only scouts could be there extremely early and the guild could only mobilize once the target actually popped (via being told by the scout). That made it a true race and eliminated "who smacked it first" and the crying because of disagreeing about "who smacked it first" after.

That's really the only way to maintain the classic competition of racing for spawns without turning it into a cluster duck of 90 people not sure who tagged what first and then complaining about the outcome after.