How important is Haste for a Paladin leveling up?

[Smalls]

For a Paladin that tanks and occasionally solos, is a Haste item extremely important to have in comparison to a Warrior, SK, or other melee class?

[radditsu]

Things die faster. Its kinda a big deal.

[Heavenzoutcast]

Haste is a good addition to any Melee. If you can get your hands on an item I'd suggest you do it. If not, make sure your geared and start saving for one. Myself, I focus Gear > Weapon > haste. Obviously spells are in there as well and you should get them when you can.

[Yoite]

its not that big of deal, you main threat is from flash of light and stuns. Your weapon and offensive skills are not as good as rogue/monk/war which results in bad dps.

Haste helps, but its not required by any means

[Alanus]

Leveling up on live, I didn't have a haste item until well after I reached 60 (max at the time). It's not a huge deal, and certainly helps, but your DPS is low anyway and it won't make a huge difference.

I never saw the appeal of FBSS since it had no other stats (and as a paladin, my DPS sucked anyway), and never had luck on any high-end haste item. I ended up winning a roll on an ebon mace which I traded for a RBG, which was nice.

[Nightbear]

Things die faster. Its kinda a big deal.

[Kekephee]

One thing I never understood on live was the willingness of tanks to throw away stats and AC for haste items like FBSS. Having a 0ac, 0 stats belt because it gives 21% haste always seemed to me to do more harm than good. You're tank; above all else, you need tank stats. That said, once you can get your hands on haste items that DO have ac and stats, that shit is indispensable. Like someone else said, your aggro mainly comes from flash of light and stuns (especially after Velious hits) but faster kills are, you know, important.

[captnamazing]

One thing I never understood on live was the willingness of tanks to throw away stats and AC for haste items like FBSS. Having a 0ac, 0 stats belt because it gives 21% haste always seemed to me to do more harm than good. You're tank; above all else, you need tank stats. That said, once you can get your hands on haste items that DO have ac and stats, that shit is indispensable. Like someone else said, your aggro mainly comes from flash of light and stuns (especially after Velious hits) but faster kills are, you know, important.

It's worth mentioning that on p99 you almost need a haste item to hold aggro over all the twinks

[kaev]

When you're stuck soloing it helps by increasing the chance the mob will die before you fall asleep at the keyboard. Likewise when you're in a group without any decent damage dealers. Other than that, upgrading your damage output from terrible to mostly terrible doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

Haste is strictly the cherry on top for a sensible (i.e. grouping) Paladin. Make sure you've got a top quality banana (weapon), plenty of ice-cream (AC), as much whipped cream (HP) as you can get, and maybe some tasty crushed nuts & candy sprinkles (resists, esp. MR), before you worry too much about the cherry on top. Hell, having a good 1-hander+shield combo in addition to your primary 2-hander (or vice versa) is likely to be more useful than haste.

Things die faster. Its kinda a big deal.
Sadly, you're not going to see much of anything die noticeably faster from a ~1% (or less :() increase you'd see in a good group's damage output.

[Quineloe]

One thing I never understood on live was the willingness of tanks to throw away stats and AC for haste items like FBSS. Having a 0ac, 0 stats belt because it gives 21% haste always seemed to me to do more harm than good. You're tank; above all else, you need tank stats. That said, once you can get your hands on haste items that DO have ac and stats, that shit is indispensable. Like someone else said, your aggro mainly comes from flash of light and stuns (especially after Velious hits) but faster kills are, you know, important.

we are talking about an item that gives you 20% more dps as an auto attacking paladin. What belt would possibly out-do 20% dps?

[Erati]

just get a Mithril 2 hander

its like super cheap ( maybe around 500 plat or less ) and has haste on it !

its actually a great sword to level up with as your 2hander

[kaev]

One thing I never understood on live was the willingness of tanks to throw away stats and AC for haste items like FBSS. Having a 0ac, 0 stats belt because it gives 21% haste always seemed to me to do more harm than good. You're tank; above all else, you need tank stats. That said, once you can get your hands on haste items that DO have ac and stats, that shit is indispensable. Like someone else said, your aggro mainly comes from flash of light and stuns (especially after Velious hits) but faster kills are, you know, important.

Melee agro generated per second IS a tank stat. You aren't tanking if the mob is attacking somebody else. A Warrior needs the haste, he's crippled without it. For Paladin & SK a 21% increase to melee agro generation is still more useful than a few AC or HP, it's just that with the smaller relative benefit (compared to Warrior) the cost of a twink belt in the EC tunnel looks a lot steeper from the knight perspective.

[Kekephee]

Melee agro generated per second IS a tank stat. You aren't tanking if the mob is attacking somebody else. A Warrior needs the haste, he's crippled without it. For Paladin & SK a 21% increase to melee agro generation is still more useful than a few AC or HP, it's just that with the smaller relative benefit (compared to Warrior) the cost of a twink belt in the EC tunnel looks a lot steeper from the knight perspective.

Aggro isn't really an issue for a paladin. Not having the ac/hp to take a mob is.

At least, I never had any problems, at all, ever, with aggro. Maybe at this stage in the game (pre-velious, pre-luclin, pre-pop) it's different. Paladins do still have stun, flash of light, and taunt, right?


As for warriors, well, I thought we were talking about paladins? I never played a warrior, so I couldn't tell you what it's like for them. I see a lot of warriors with a lot of great dps gear doing a shit job holding aggro. I guess you're never going to outdps the people in your group whose job is "do dps" so, I dunno, seems like kind of a weird thing to try to stack up. Seems like the real aggro comes from proc items, which have nothing to do with your haste.

[Danth]

As a Paladin, if you solo or duo you'll want haste. No other stat (aside from having a nice weapon) will improve your killing power as much. If you group, you can live without it and in truth probably won't even notice lacking haste.

Danth

[Raavak]

Haste items are expensive. As a hybrid and you are looking to buy I'd wait until you can afford the good stuff and not settle on a FBSS (http://wiki.project1999.com/Flowing_Black_Silk_Sash) or Sash of the Dragonborn (http://wiki.project1999.com/Sash_of_the_Dragonborn). You'll get more bang for your buck with other items. And don't wear like a Hangman's Noose (http://wiki.project1999.com/Hangman%27s_Noose) or Swirlspine Belt (http://wiki.project1999.com/Swirlspine_Belt) at all unless soloing or something... the haste is so low on those they are near useless (even then a TBB (http://wiki.project1999.com/Thick_Banded_Belt) might be better).

[Mirana]

Haste items are expensive. As a hybrid and you are looking to buy I'd wait until you can afford the good stuff and not settle on a FBSS (http://wiki.project1999.com/Flowing_Black_Silk_Sash) or Sash of the Dragonborn (http://wiki.project1999.com/Sash_of_the_Dragonborn). You'll get more bang for your buck with other items. And don't wear like a Hangman's Noose (http://wiki.project1999.com/Hangman%27s_Noose) or Swirlspine Belt (http://wiki.project1999.com/Swirlspine_Belt) at all unless soloing or something... the haste is so low on those they are near useless (even then a TBB (http://wiki.project1999.com/Thick_Banded_Belt) might be better).

Disagree with basically everything you've said. Buying an FBSS, even if it isn't the "optimal" purchase, does nothing to set you back, because it can always be resold.

Hangman's noose is 17% haste, which is a 17% increase in melee dps, which is nowhere near useless. TBB will not give you even half that dps increase.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Haste items are expensive. As a hybrid and you are looking to buy I'd wait until you can afford the good stuff and not settle on a FBSS (http://wiki.project1999.com/Flowing_Black_Silk_Sash) or Sash of the Dragonborn (http://wiki.project1999.com/Sash_of_the_Dragonborn). You'll get more bang for your buck with other items. And don't wear like a Hangman's Noose (http://wiki.project1999.com/Hangman%27s_Noose) or Swirlspine Belt (http://wiki.project1999.com/Swirlspine_Belt) at all unless soloing or something... the haste is so low on those they are near useless (even then a TBB (http://wiki.project1999.com/Thick_Banded_Belt) might be better).

This.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Disagree with basically everything you've said. Buying an FBSS, even if it isn't the "optimal" purchase, does nothing to set you back, because it can always be resold.

Hangman's noose is 17% haste, which is a 17% increase in melee dps, which is nowhere near useless. TBB will not give you even half that dps increase.

Not this.

If you have a limitless supply of cash then sure. If you're stretching a 15k budget and 11k is fbss then definitely not worth it.

[Rheaume]

SoulFire or Mithril 2 hander at level 20?

[Shamalam]

Seems like the real aggro comes from proc items, which have nothing to do with your haste.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but doesn't more attacks = more procs? Seems like haste would affect it in that regard, unless there is something like a set number of procs per minute regardless of number of attacks?

[Splorf22]

I see a lot of warriors with a lot of great dps gear doing a shit job holding aggro. I guess you're never going to outdps the people in your group whose job is "do dps" so, I dunno, seems like kind of a weird thing to try to stack up. Seems like the real aggro comes from proc items, which have nothing to do with your haste.

Kaev is totally correct here. Something like 2/3 of a warrior's threat comes from swings; more haste = more swings. Procs just get the credit because they have a tendency to vault the warrior 'over the top' as it were. Also warriors can do 80-90% of a monk's dps when well geared, so that isn't trivial either.

Aggro isn't really an issue for a paladin. Not having the ac/hp to take a mob is.

I mean what belt would you wear that has such awesome tanking stats? BiS for stats is an RBG, which has 27% haste. I mean if a paladin is wearing banded in his other slots to save up for an FBSS he's probably doing it wrong, but really paladin gear advice is the same as every other melee class: grind it out to 46, join a guild, get a fuckton of planar armor including a 41% haste belt from Sky.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but doesn't more attacks = more procs? Seems like haste would affect it in that regard, unless there is something like a set number of procs per minute regardless of number of attacks?

It's not a dumb question but it is a misconception.

You proc x rate per minute based on Dex and base proc mod% for the wep (which should now be properly set to 0 during this era) regardless of the number of swings.

Used to be a pretty OP strat to have a Barbarian Spiritist Hammer, slow yourself and melee every 10 seconds or whatever between jbb casts or med ticks. You effectively proc'd 50% of the time.

[Shamalam]

Ah, I had no idea! Thanks for clearing that up.

[lecompte]

It's not a dumb question but it is a misconception.

You proc x rate per minute based on Dex and base proc mod% for the wep (which should now be properly set to 0 during this era) regardless of the number of swings.

Used to be a pretty OP strat to have a Barbarian Spiritist Hammer, slow yourself and melee every 10 seconds or whatever between jbb casts or med ticks. You effectively proc'd 50% of the time.

I used to do some fairly broken ranger dps with flint dagger and spamming nukes. So the procs per minute thing... Is there an explanation somewhere of how it currently works?

Can I still run the procs per minute timer by nuking between attackers? Or even switching a non-procing weapon in and out? I imagined there was a forumla that increased the chance of a proc every second until one occurred then it reset.

[kaev]

SoulFire or Mithril 2 hander at level 20?

Without another haste item it's not even close, m2h over soulfire at pretty much any level. With a budget haste item like the FBSS it's still not close, m2h > soulfire. But with an FBSS I'd go Baton of Faith over m2h.

Soulfire is pretty weak as a weapon for most of the EQ timeline, basicly from the day Kunark releases (see http://wiki.project1999.com/Axe_of_the_Iron_Back). As Paladin 2handers go at this point in the timeline it's an exceptionally shitty weapon.

[kaev]

I used to do some fairly broken ranger dps with flint dagger and spamming nukes. So the procs per minute thing... Is there an explanation somewhere of how it currently works?

Can I still run the procs per minute timer by nuking between attackers? Or even switching a non-procing weapon in and out? I imagined there was a forumla that increased the chance of a proc every second until one occurred then it reset.

Assuming proc frequency mechanics work same as live (seemed to when I was active here)...

As long as you're not delaying your swings with your spell casts they won't affect the chance of a proc in any given minute. Weapon proc chance is per minute, and is adjusted only by DEX so far as I know (since they've removed proc mods from the weapons that had them.) The proc chance per swing is calculated by the game engine based on your current adjusted attack delay. That's how Shakerpaging and the BSH trick YumYums mentioned above works. Your proc chance per swing will be 100% if your adjusted weapon delay causes your swings/minute to be <= to your proc rate per minute (i.e. if you are slowed.)

AFAIK there is no accumulation or reset in the mechanic, proc chance remains constant so long as your DEX and adjusted swing delay remain constant. The fact that your last swing proc'd, or didn't, has no effect on the chance of your next swing proc'ing.

[Mirana]

Not this.

If you have a limitless supply of cash then sure. If you're stretching a 15k budget and 11k is fbss then definitely not worth it.

You are arguing against a point that i didnt make. Im simply saying that there is no need to wait on an "uber" haste item as states by the person i quoted, as a sub par haste item can simply be resold.

Also, fbss are not 11k.

[Pint]

Didn't get my first haste item on my paladin till the mid 50s, you'll live

[Buellen]

Heya

Like many have said haste is not needed as a paladin, until Possibly later 50 plus. At that point you will be raiding with a guild and will acquire you haste item their.

I level a paladin on live and eq mac and both paladin's didn't get a haste item till post 50.