Guard Ledshin WFP currently has See Invis

[Imago]

Is this classic? Makes running through WFP rather dangerous for the darker varieties.

[Potus]

Nope, but one poster named Nirgon used EQMac as evidence that was and got it changed.

Here is my bug thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141941) that got it reduced to a "chance" of him seeing invis, although I killed him a dozen times and he didn't see invis only once.

And I've never heard of a monster either spawning with or without the chance to see invis, especially not a guard who patrols the gatehouse in the most heavily traveled city in the game.

[Nirgon]

Also used a classic post as evidence. He's a see invis guard.

(try the sewers)

[Bamz4l]

further evidence to support the classicness:

Illia's Bestiary circa April 2000, players discuss /conning Guard Ledshin while invis:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020124053217/http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=1084

[Potus]

Also used a classic post as evidence. He's a see invis guard.

(try the sewers)

Casters using sewers not classic. Also your commentor posts were wrong and never verified by Allakhazam.

further evidence to support the classicness:

Illia's Bestiary circa April 2000, players discuss /conning Guard Ledshin while invis:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020124053217/http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=1084

I addressed this in bug post. Allakhazam never updated Ledshin to see invis (but they did Fikus). Everlore has 0 comments on Ledshin seeing invis. EQAtlas doesn't mention him either. If Ledshin had seen invis during classic everyone would have known about him. Every mob post for him on Everlore/Alla/SK and Necro sites would have said THIS GUY SEES INVIS. He would have been a bigger jerk than Sgt. Slate. People would have posted on all the sites warning people not to run invis through West Freeport. Why do we not see any of this shit on the various websites? Because Ledshin never saw invisibility.


TLDR; Ledshin never saw invis. Not classic. Nirgon bad poster.

[Nirgon]

This isn't hard to understand (for anyone).

I found a comment from the classic era supporting my claim. It was verified on EQ Mac, where the NPC exists unchanged.


-- Begin --

Ledshin:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020124053217/http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=1084


For some reason this guard can see invisible


Fikus:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020124190217/http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=1100


This is the guard that stands just inside the militia house near gates that always blows invis. :)


Now we just need to beef up their resists from my other thread :).

-- End --


For some reason this guard can see invisible. I am KOS in west freeport and everytime I con him, its scowls ready to attack, while the others are indifferent. So keep an eye out for him if you are KOS. He usually walks around near the Freeport Militia House entrance.


End of story. Comment matches my memory, verified on EQ Mac.


One player specifically agrees:
Indeed I remeber this on live, I always had to kill him to then single lucan (yes u could! %$%$## agro chain mechanics!!!)

but anywho..yeah it was annoying that this dude would sit there and be like "hit!"



If you want him to "sometimes" see invis, I suggest that you shoulda killed him a couple times to prove he can spawn without see invis or asking someone on EQ Mac to do the same. There is NO mistake he is a see invis guard.

I let this go because, at first, you weren't a huge cry baby and stalked my threads about it and I'm not here to dog the devs to undo something they did to alleviate some tears. It's supposed to be a patrolling see invis guard, learn to use the sewers as a dark race (intended/classic).

We have a dark race/necro not using the sewers claiming necros were useless in PvP in classic. Enough with trolling bugs because you got splatted and don't read patch notes/didn't traverse classic Freeport enough as a dark race. K?

[Potus]

Guard Ledshin's Everlore (http://web.archive.org/web/20010611041541/http://everlore.com/bestiary/beastdetails.asp?mode=show&BID=316020). No See Invis.

Guard Fikus's Allakhazam. Confirmed sees invisibility. (http://web.archive.org/web/20020223094421/http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=1123) No confirmation on Ledshin ever by Allakhazam. No further posts after your magical two talking about his see'ing invis.

Sorry, you're simply wrong, all you have is 2 posts from people that were never verified by Allakhazam throughout the entire history of West Freeport. It should have never been changed by the developers here.

[Colgate]

the argument that no one on everlore said he sees invis comes no where close to trumping the mountains of evidence suggesting that he does

[Potus]

What mountain of evidence. Also Colgate white knighting Nirgon? Why I never.

[Potus]

Mountain of evidence: two anonymous posts that even the Allakhazam mods ignored.

MOUNTAINS of EVIDENCE guys. MOUNTAINS.

[Nirgon]

I didn't code EQ Mac (or change it some how before whoever looked) and had no idea if it was working there. It is an untouched area and working as we remember it.

What a coincidence.

Please be sure to attack Xadion too, since he backed me up... and the dev who investigated this on EQ Mac. Gotta share that hardon you got when the Militia took you down, darkie.

It's not that it's so much of a mountain of evidence but exactly what is needed to make this change. I'd suggest he not spawn as a non-see invis version until proof is some how offered otherwise as that was never confirmed (see invis was confirmed and the case).

[Potus]

Who is we? Everyone in my thread doesn't remember him seeing invis. And I don't see any of your evidence from EQMac.

[Nirgon]

Indeed I remeber this on live, I always had to kill him to then single lucan (yes u could! %$%$## agro chain mechanics!!!)

but anywho..yeah it was annoying that this dude would sit there and be like "hit!"

You can't read :(

Dunno what to say

I believe some of the devs found him to be see invis on EQ Mac. Perhaps the dawg or whoever investigated can fill this in for you. Or, I know! How about screech at them rather than stalk my threads with your tears over 1 (oh wait it was two, you said it got you again in another thread, quick learner here) xp death? The fact you've cried to them and gotten this guard to sometimes spawn without see invis is disgusting and sad.

Just use the sewer (or don't move through at derp speed/necros can harm shield and fd...), get the fix for these guards to always see invis and move on with your life.


Edit: go bother Sundawg or Xadion for a while instead

[Potus]

I didn't make this thread. Some one else did who didn't think it was classic. Plus this person doesn't think it was classic. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1357086&postcount=7) And this person, too (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1350287&postcount=2). And then this post calling your EQMac evidence a bug. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1381216&postcount=17)

Xadion is probably talking about Fikus who hangs out right next to Sir Lucan and is there to pop people trying to invis pull him. Notice he mentions Lucan.

[Nirgon]

Sees invis. Get some elder beads and dispel yourself or somethin'.

:cool:

[Bamz4l]

There seemed to be a lot of confusion as to how/why some mobs sometimes see invis. You can see the exact same discussion on other NPCs.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=465#m101570975790634

In the above link, they decided that "players were the ones casting see-invis on mobs".

Right now on P99 we believe its part of the spawn - either they spawn with see invis or they don't.

That should have been very easy to document and prove - someone could have figured this out in many scenarios simply by camping one of those mobs - but no one ever seems to do that. There's always a mystery behind them.


Why?


I found this thread that discussed Pandos in West Freeport doing the same thing.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=611
(search for "The Real Story")


Is it a West Freeport thing???

But then someone weighs in on the REAL reason why some mobs see invis sometimes....

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=611#m106110796936653

There's a bug that's been around for years. When you charm a mob and then let the charm go, that mob now sees invisible. It wont be listed on thier buffs list but from then on till you kill them, that particular npc can see invis. Responsible charmers kill off their old pets , but this is a faction mob so thats not so simple. But this is why he sometimes sees and sometimes doesnt. When he does, someone was there before you trying charm.

Meredeth, Coercer, Tunare

[Bamz4l]

^ Guard Ledshin was a regularly camped NPC, being one of the lowest level guards to drop the helm for the quest. No one has ever documented "he sometimes respawns with see invis" but im sure as hell he was frequently charmed.


Nirgon was definitely correct about Fikus, but seeing as theres little evidence to support Ledshin, along with new evidence that supports a "See invis bug", its hard to say about Ledshin.

Also think about it.. Fikus should see invis - he always does. But Ledshin only gets it randomly?

That "see-invis bug" could have potentially caused other mobs to incorrectly been flagged on p99 as see-invis, and this is something we should be looking into the validity of existence.
Any old-school enchanters around?

[Zalaerian]

your all sick for arguing over this non factor shit

[Loto]

Ledshin shouldn't see invis. I hunted Kroon all through 54 and Ledshin never once saw though my Selo's Song of Travel.

[heartbrand]

I played a dark elf Necromancer for my first three months of eq back in 1999. I never had an issue being able to invis and run through wfp to efp for the docks.

[Nirgon]

I remember it, I find a comment, it works like that on EQ Mac... and yet...

(Getting an erudite necro through Qeynos was a bitch on live too. I might test that next.)

[TWDL_Prexus]

Ledshin Reply... By: Ediena
Posted @ Sat, Apr 22nd 9:42 AM 2000 Score: Decent[2.50]
For some reason this guard can see invisible. I am KOS in west freeport and everytime I con him, its scowls ready to attack, while the others are indifferent. So keep an eye out for him if you are KOS. He usually walks around near the Freeport Militia House entrance.

Plus all the other evidence. Working as intended.

[Nirgon]

Should have tested the charm bug or something? HIGHLY DOUBT the stumbled upon eq mac version had this going on :P.

[Potus]

Ledshin Reply... By: Ediena
Posted @ Sat, Apr 22nd 9:42 AM 2000 Score: Decent[2.50]
For some reason this guard can see invisible. I am KOS in west freeport and everytime I con him, its scowls ready to attack, while the others are indifferent. So keep an eye out for him if you are KOS. He usually walks around near the Freeport Militia House entrance.

Plus all the other evidence. Working as intended.

That's the only evidence. That's it. All we have is that one comment to support Ledshin see invis.

And against that we have no other website saying so, Alla's mods not labeling him see invis, EQatlas saying invis running through FP is safe, and a dozen people posting here that Ledshin seeing invis isn't classic.

Add in the charming mobs makes them see invis bug and it's quite clear that Ledshin never saw invis. That poster was just wrong.

[Nirgon]

What a coincidence he saw invis on eq mac tho right haha

[Potus]

Bamz4l's post is pretty well-laid out and this forum needs a lot more stuff like that. Has anyone been able to replicate the bug here?

If we're going to make Guard Ledshin see invis based upon 1 Allakhazam poster's comment, then by that logic Pandos Flintside should be see invis, as well, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[heartbrand]

That's the only evidence. That's it. All we have is that one comment to support Ledshin see invis.

And against that we have no other website saying so, Alla's mods not labeling him see invis, EQatlas saying invis running through FP is safe, and a dozen people posting here that Ledshin seeing invis isn't classic.

Add in the charming mobs makes them see invis bug and it's quite clear that Ledshin never saw invis. That poster was just wrong.

[phacemeltar]

Also used a classic post as evidence. He's a see invis guard.

(try the sewers)

the fkn sewers wont open up at the casters guild

[Bamz4l]

the rabbit hole gets deeper

http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5358

it is verified that sometimes, under some conditions, mobs gain the ability to see invis. Not for someone on their hate list already, but for everyone.

I don't have the references, but a search here should get you the original posts.



http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/soearchive/viewtopic.php?f=167&t=58970

This happens more often then not when your ex pet has residual agro on other mobs in the zone. Another fun thing to do, is say go to Plane of fire, charm a spider, to make life easier cast NDT on it for easier identification later(it matters not, shrink works just as well for that purpose) , then send it out to agro a few mobs. Zone out, then back in again to "clear" your agro. Pet will no longer be fighting, go recharm it and watch the fun begin - every mob that the pet was agro on, will again have agro - and as an added bonus, every mob that those mobs run past, will also chain agro. Most impressive trains can thusly be created. Note that indeed, most of the time (oddly, not all the time) your ex pet will now have the wonderful ability to see invis, weather or not you left zone via gate, or via a dirt nap

^ interesting tidbit, suggesting that a hatelist bug is triggering the see-invis bug.

(same thread)

This is an old old bug, happened using charm pre-luclin even, altho I don't know what specifically causes it. But yes, pretty much any charmed pet randomly gains the ability to see invis after it is released from charm.

... my personal experience is just as a druid with animal charm, but it works the same way.


It is common knowledge by 2004, but my initial finding (and one above) suggest that the bug "existed for years". i'll keep digging later

[Nirgon]

No mobs in EverQuest saw invis because of maybe a charm bug :)

Care to explain why he saw invis on EQ Mac and why that comment is there?

Hint: not a charm bug

[Potus]

Do you have any proof of him seeing invis on EQMac? A screenshot? Chatlog? Some EQMac posters warning people about him?

What I'm asking is do you have any proof at all besides an Allakhazam post.

[Nirgon]

One of the devs here I believe investigated. Not sure who. Sundawg mentions this and is responsible for the change. I'd take it up with him.

I have evidence saying he did see invis and they saw him as a see invis NPC on Mac... which matches the comment... on an untouched NPC.

If he COULD spawn without see invis, and that's classic... I'd be happy with that and such a thing WAS possible (like seb entrance). However, I am adamant this mob always saw invis and there should be no upcoming change.

[Potus]

Ok so no you have nothing to stand on except that lone Allakhazam post.

[Nirgon]

And Sundawg or someone seeing it on EQ Mac, which was an untouched NPC.

Maybe you shoulda asked them to kill it a few times to see that one that doesn't see invis would never pop. Hence what YOU say is conjecture.

Over 1 xp death people. 1. xp. death.

[Bamz4l]

ok... then I will take another approach, showing detailed descriptions about people camping Guard Ledshin, and using tactics involving invis:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=2#m100034270357839

Thats weird that no one posted about this. Well here is what I do (GREAT kiting for level 29+ if you have the mana!!)I don't recommend this for warriors though. If you are a cleric or pally, replace all "snares" with "roots".

Go to the arena, not the PvP part either, and not if you arent liked by the Steel Warriors. If the latter applies, just stay away from the wall seperating the Arena from the rest of freeport. If you are KOS to the Steel Warriors, just stay in that big open space between the Steel Warriors building and the Arena.

For us who are liked by the warriors (and after you turn in a farkload of Militia Helms, they will like you. I have gone from Apprehensive to Amiably in 3 days)this is easy as Pie...after its been cooked and has cooled a little bit. Because when it is still frozen its kinda hard. But anyway, from 29-33 I recommend Hrakin (don't know about higher yet) and Ledshin. Hrakin spawns 30, Leshin 27. This only will work with a sow, snaring early or rooting early will only make a train. But, you pull your guard from where you see him (get him at his closest point to the Arena. Follow them around either invis or on a non-kos character to see it all) and run like a ranger on a bad raid to the arena. Get on the top riser where Jakom patrols, and run either left or right to where it meets the wall. Turn around and cast Snare, Ensnare, or Root as soon as you can, I click the little gem madly until it starts casting. As soon as it either lands or they look to close, run off to the next lowest riser...NEVER ENTER THE PVP AREA!! That will be death from the guard and maybe even other people because it is so small and hard to escape. As soon as you are on the next riser, if they are not snared or rooted yet (Snare if you can, root makes this difficult)keep attempting until it lands or they make it to 90 degrees away from you in the circle around the arena. If they make it there, continue to run around and cast. Do the same if snared, only cast your most mana efficient DD. Repeat until guard is dead. With snare, as you may have noticed, the point at which they normally run, their AGI is too low to move. This gives you free med time before the next guard. Simply cast a DoT, and med. If you are a ranger, cast ignite and use your bow until he gets close enough to fight. As a pally, when he hurts too much, root, run back and heal. Rangers can do the same but with him still snared it will work fine.

What happens if I run oom? Just run back up to where you started this, that corner on the top level by the wall, and sit and med. If the guard is snared and still on the lower level when you start, count to 12, if unsnared, count to 4, then stand, check him (if he is still far enough way, med another tick) and if close enough go back down to the lower level, sit med and count again to twice what you counted before. Then stand and repeat the DD process.
What happens if I get an add?
RUN!! Run to the EFP zone line with Guard Imillin...the one at the end of the street going to the arena. Be warned you will lose about a bubble of HP zoning...they get a few hits in.

I hope this helps you in killing the dirty dirty humans (humans are bad, m'kay). Any other questions email ben_nageru_hito@msn.com please subject your message something like "YOU #!$%! YOU GOT ME KILLED IN FREEPORT" so I know its an EQ thing and not more porn (yes its lovely, but "too much of a nude thing" really exists) I have been killing freeport guards in EC, WC, EFP, WFP and I hope to expand into Nro soon.

Thronscape - 31 Druid of Torvo. Hateful of humans, hated by humans, destroyer of the human race (can I get banned for that? jk)

[Nirgon]

Follow but doesn't say anything about don't get to close.

But you'd think he WOULD say something about "btw this one sees invis" if he did.

Still, I recall him patrolling around and having to avoid him.

[NegaStoat]

I played a dark elf Necromancer for my first three months of eq back in 1999. I never had an issue being able to invis and run through wfp to efp for the docks.

From early game pre Kunark through Velious release I never, ever, ever had a problem running Invis through WFP on Brell Serilis. If making one or more patrolling guards see invis will make P1999 "more classic", I'll add my voice to beg to differ with it.

[Potus]

More good research from Bamzal.

Can we get a developer to respond to this? It's pretty clear that Ledshin never saw invisibility and should be reverted back.

[Bamz4l]

Care to explain why he saw invis on EQ Mac and why that comment is there?

Ya,

One of the devs here I believe investigated. Not sure who. Sundawg mentions this and is responsible for the change.

[Imago]

Over 1 xp death people. 1. xp. death.

Thus, worthy of repair.

[Nirgon]

Except he saw invis when checked on eq Mac. What were the odds lol. I can follow a see invis npc while invis all day as long as I'm not too close to it, even through a sea of non see invis mobs.

Imagine my surprise when the grobb in town guards post I made was spot on too.

[Sundawg]

This is the 3rd thread on this bug/fix/feature, please search the forums before making a new bug report. The issues and evidence has been brought up already in the other two threads.

I played a dark elf Necromancer for my first three months of eq back in 1999. I never had an issue being able to invis and run through wfp to efp for the docks.

Very few PC toons start out kos to the militia, and most of them involve ogre/troll/iksar.

Everyone should keep trolling out of the bug section, thank you.

[Nirgon]

There's at least 2 forum accounts that require 5 across the eyes for threatening classic development.

[Potus]

This is the 3rd thread on this bug/fix/feature, please search the forums before making a new bug report. The issues and evidence has been brought up already in the other two threads.



Very few PC toons start out kos to the militia, and most of them involve ogre/troll/iksar.

Everyone should keep trolling out of the bug section, thank you.

Thanks for responding. Did you or another developer see the supposed EQMac evidence?

I'm not trolling but it's pretty flimsy to make a guard KOS over one Allakhazam post. Especially after all the stuff posted regarding see invis and charm making mobs bugged.

[Sundawg]

I did, and by that stage in EQmac history I don't think anyone was xping in Freeport. The server was down to 7 or 8 players on average and got reset/rebooted regularly.

I know everyone won't be a fan of some changes that go in. I know some hated the see invisible changes to Old Sebilis and the rest of Kunark. But if enough evidence points to a change that is classic and reasonable, we must do it.

[heals4reals]

Powerful.

Thanks for keepin it real, classic.

[Nirgon]

Yaw and pls do not put in that sometimes to not see invis change. That was more dungeon/xp area type stuff and in no case I can think of applied to static NPCs in towns.

[Potus]

I did, and by that stage in EQmac history I don't think anyone was xping in Freeport. The server was down to 7 or 8 players on average and got reset/rebooted regularly.

I know everyone won't be a fan of some changes that go in. I know some hated the see invisible changes to Old Sebilis and the rest of Kunark. But if enough evidence points to a change that is classic and reasonable, we must do it.

Alright, well thanks. There weren't any random see invis guards on live, at least when I played.

I don't see how the Ledshin change is reasonable or there's enough evidence except that one post. Considering Bamzal has a post that says the opposite, and you have tons of people here saying it isn't classic, and you have Everlore/EQatlas saying he isn't, it's pretty clear he should not see invisible.

You're just going to get more bug reports from confused people who get attacked by him, I'm afraid.

[Alunova]

Whenever there is conflicting or absent data we will almost always veer toward the more annoying/difficult option. This slightly combats the fact that players know most of the mechanics and nearly every drop and strategy is documented somewhere.

Consider it a replication of some random guy charming and casting see invis on guards if you need. There is no point arguing or trying to get the last word in against developers, because you won't get it.

[Nirgon]

I'd like to see an example of 2 other NPCs that only sometimes spawn with see invis in towns vs always before we make the sometimes change personally.

[Potus]

The sometimes change is already live. Don't worry, he sees invis way more than he doesn't, so you'll still get to kill lots of people at the gate.

[Nirgon]

Whether he kills people or not I don't care. Maybe dark races will use the sewer aka classic EQ.