So torn! (ROG/MNK)

[Tzeriel]

Working on my Wizromancer main(Go LFG on Wizzie, if nothing for 30 mins I go solo on my necro). But I've been dying to go back to my melee roots a bit. I played a Rogue on Live from 2000-2004. Was pretty good at it, did well, good reputation for knowing my class. That said, utterly stuck whether to roll a rogue here or a monk. Either would be non twinked... Well, Rogue might have fine steel and banded from Mistmoore, monk might have the 2hb from my non played Paladin. But that's about it. Not looking for class rundowns. I know what they do. Just bored at work, figured maybe I could drum up my interest for one or the other, cause once I roll this, my main/alt combo will be set!

[Ele]

Monk does great grouping or soloing with minimal twinking and bandages.

Rogue will need a group or at the very least duo, if you don't have fungi/epic. Even then groups will want the epic rogue twink over a fine steel banded one. :(

[Tzeriel]

My ONLY concern with a monk is the numbers. Are there really as many monks as there seems to be?

[Ele]

My ONLY concern with a monk is the numbers. Are there really as many monks as there seems to be?

Yes, yes there are. However, since they can pull, tank, and dps having multiples in groups isn't a problem.

[Tzeriel]

Ok. I know my rogues well, but one last monk query. Race. My necro is a lizard because there is truly no better. Does it really matter as a monk? Ikky have perks sure, but I assume it isn't like it is with a Necro where it is the clear cut best.

[Scikala]

Iksar is the master race

/thead end

You'll level a bit slower, but ac/avoidance and regen will help soloing. You also look better.

[Tzeriel]

Female iksar it is!

[Scikala]

....Gimme back that FS I gave you for playing a Female Iksar =P

[Tzeriel]

Why? =( Is this a bad choice? I don't see many ladylizards

[Swish]

Roll a rogue for Velious, you won't regret it.

[Tzeriel]

Swish. Swish. y u do dis. I almost made the monk. Now I'm hovering over Rogue. My old Rogue fun is coming back to me. swish stahp. Argh..... Roooogue.

[justin2090]

Monk does great grouping or soloing with minimal twinking and bandages.

Rogue will need a group or at the very least duo, if you don't have fungi/epic. Even then groups will want the epic rogue twink over a fine steel banded one. :(

Fine steel rogue still 2nd best dps.. right next to epic rogue..

[Nightbear]

Roll a rogue for Velious, you won't regret it.

What about dat triple attack tho

[Tzeriel]

So I was dead set on the Rogue, thinking about my time on live and how good they are. But I thought about this server. Rogues are all twinks. I cannot compete with this, as my main is a simple level 30 wizard. I'm gonna do a human monk for faster leveling and better non-twinked lifestyle. Bleh Ragebringer MQ. Really just brought down my rogueboner.

[Pint]

Rogues are so very boring, at least on a monk you feel like your doing something other than pressing backstab and reading numbers

[Scikala]

Everything they wear is pinkish...doesnt fit the master race.

[Tzeriel]

The master race levels too damn slow. Though if someone has goodies for the master race, I SUPPOSE I could roll one :O

[Donruss]

I get annoyed having to always pull for groups. That is why I rolled a rog for my third character :)

[Lyrith]

The master race levels too damn slow. Though if someone has goodies for the master race, I SUPPOSE I could roll one :O

Stop asking for handouts... =D

I only support Monk if you play Iskar, the downtime will be less due to better damage mitigation and Regen allowing you to kill more mobs quicker. It's not like your playing an Iskar Shadowknight....


If you loved the rogue originally then play that, it's not like you are twinking out the monk anyways.

[Lyrith]

Roll a rogue for Velious, you won't regret it.

Wasn't there just a forum on this the other day about how monks out dps high end rogues in velious? But for the normal player they end up about equal?

Am I missing something? People hiding rogue infos?

[Tzeriel]

I have to ask for handouts! See, I have this bad habit. Amass wealth -> buy stuff for say paladin -> quit paladin, not what I hoped -> handout all of his stuff to players who DO enjoy the class.

I'm poor from giving so much of myself.
<rattles a tin cup> I wonder if this is a viable 1hb...
You have become better at begging(2)!

In all seriousness I'd like to roll ikky. But getting the little gear I do have and bandage plat to Kunark is... Tedious, to say the least.

Also in seriousness not begging. I like making my way.

[mtb tripper]

rogue

[Velerin]

How do the rogues here deal with the less than stellar hide? There should be less see hide mobs in the game than see invis (e.g. sol b kobolds could see invis but not see rogue hide in classic, but sonic bats saw both). That alone has kept me away from playing rogues here. Hide should be better than normal invis.

[Tzeriel]

I did more reading the Hide issues, poison issues, pickpocket issues and the lack of piercers to twink with led me to Monk. I just don't get it. Pally weapons are cheap, ranger weapons are cheap. Rogue weapons are expensive as balls.

[Scikala]

Simple, the market for the first two basically isnt there, so you try to get what you can. Someone is always making a rogue.

[Tzeriel]

Trust me, I get the high high end market. I'm talking the mid level stuff. It makes no sense. UberRich buy Ragebringer. Middlings buy Croaking Dirk, Rapier, etc. why are the mid-range rogue weapons so high still? Real twinks don't want them. People within a few hundred can't afford them. This server is just very Rogue unfriendly.

[Malone88]

Not sure I would qualify seb croaking dirk as "mid-level". Still one of the best offhands for high-level rogues. "Mid-level" is more like bone razor/trak tooth/CSS and all those are around 1.5-2k each.

Yes, Hide/Sneak isn't "uber" like it may have been at one time, but for most zones is still pretty much 100% good. Just more of a challenge now to do CR in high-lev zones like Sebilis where RandomMerbX can see through any inviz.

[Smalls]

I did more reading the Hide issues, poison issues, pickpocket issues and the lack of piercers to twink with led me to Monk. I just don't get it. Pally weapons are cheap, ranger weapons are cheap. Rogue weapons are expensive as balls.

Lamentations aren't cheap, especially if you want two (which I consider better at 20+ than Woodsman Staff).

[Cecily]

Compared to rogue weapons, yes Lammies are cheap. And no, Lammies are not good weapons.

[Smalls]

Compared to rogue weapons, yes Lammies are cheap. And no, Lammies are not good weapons.

They're better than a Woodsman's Staff for a Ranger.

[Cecily]

Low delay, low damage weapons are only nice for extra aggro and damage bonus. You can't dual wield super well at 20, and you have no damage bonus. Woodsman vs X has been argued quite a bit on this forum. Woodsman always wins. I don't care to prove this.

Jade Mace is better than a Lammy. Lupine Dagger is better than a Lammy. If you're gonna go against conventional knowledge grain, at least pick some better cheap(ish) weapons to dual wield.

[JayN]

play an iksar monk youll be much happier then playing any rogue.

I know I play both

[Smalls]

Low delay, low damage weapons are only nice for extra aggro and damage bonus. You can't dual wield super well at 20, and you have no damage bonus. Woodsman vs X has been argued quite a bit on this forum. Woodsman always wins. I don't care to prove this.

Jade Mace is better than a Lammy. Lupine Dagger is better than a Lammy. If you're gonna go against conventional knowledge grain, at least pick some better cheap(ish) weapons to dual wield.

Neither of those have Strength, Stamina, or HP.

[Cecily]

Which, of course, are the primary things you're looking to have on your damage dealing slots.

[Barkingturtle]

Nothing is sexy as a lammy.

[Smalls]

Which, of course, are the primary things you're looking to have on your damage dealing slots.

If I'm gonna pick weapons, they're gonna be weapons with stats, not just raw damage/delay. And Lammies have good twink stats.

[Cecily]

That's the wrong priority for a DPS class :(

Stats are fairly meaningless in EQ. Get them on your other pieces. Otherwise you're just hurting your damage.

[Smalls]

That's the wrong priority for a DPS class :(

Stats are fairly meaningless in EQ. Get them on your other pieces. Otherwise you're just hurting your damage.

Right, having Strength on a weapon, a stat that directly increases the overall damage you deal (how hard you hit and your accuracy) is meaningless.

[Cecily]

Yes it is.

[Smalls]

Yes it is.

9/19 with an extra 12 strength is gonna result in more overall damage than a 9/18 with no strength.

[Cecily]

Right, having Strength on a weapon is meaningless.

[Smalls]

*shrug* Whatever buddy, if you want to waste your money on inferior weapons, go for it.

[Barkingturtle]

9/19 with an extra 12 strength is gonna result in more overall damage than a 9/18 with no strength.

You can read about how you're wrong here. (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwLk00fzuQQMZ3VlbjBhd0ZVd2c/edit?pli=1)

[Smalls]

You can read about how you're wrong here. (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwLk00fzuQQMZ3VlbjBhd0ZVd2c/edit?pli=1)

Thank you for proving that I'm right.

[Barkingturtle]

You can't argue with a spreadsheet, pal. Evidently you can't manage to read one, either.

No skin off my back, jack.

[Smalls]

You can't argue with a spreadsheet, pal. Evidently you can't manage to read one, either.

No skin off my back, jack.

I can if the spreadsheet is wrong. And it is.

[Barkingturtle]

I will pray for you.

[Smalls]

I will pray for you.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6l6o8EiMJ1r0bbrto1_1280.png

[Tzeriel]

Working on both classes. Both are as fun as always. Difference seems to be in a group as a monk, people expect a lot, you can do a lot. As a rogue, nobody expects shit. Just stand here and stab stuff other people being and be in is between pulls so even bad pulls don't concern you. I like lazy. Most times. At night I usually play in my laptop while watching movies, so lazy is good. Weekend play tends to get more involved. Yay melee! Boo Wizard! Just kidding. I love my wizard, just nobody wants to group :(

[Vayder]

Smalls best young troll in the biz!

[Cecily]

He's not that subtle. Stats vs ratio is something worth discussing though.

[Lyrith]

No one ever really talked about who was really the best DPS end game Kunark VS. end game Velious

[justin2090]

imo for velious..

Its not really the fact that monks and rogues are neck and neck dps wise. It's that monks can pull/tank and do rogue-like dps at the same time. Rogue is still king dps for now though.

[Hailto]

No one ever really talked about who was really the best DPS end game Kunark VS. end game Velious

This.

Does the claim that high end monks out dps high end rogues in velious hold any water? They should not be neck and neck given the utility differences between the classes.

[Tecmos Deception]

I don't know from experience, but it certainly seems like monk DPS takes a bigger jump up than rogue DPS does. Rogues are still stuck with 15-damage piercers, albeit with better ratios for both mainhand and offhand. Monks, however, go from 9/16 and 16/22 to 15/18... plus they gain triple attack, right?

[Ryndar]

Roll a rogue for Velious, you won't regret it.

You will if they don't fix stealth.

[Freakish]

I have a 60 monk and a 60 rogue. Both very well geared. In dps the rogue blows the monk away but its very repetitive and your utility is limited. Monks can fool with pulling and feigning and its fun as help to run from seb ent to whatever camp just flopping past any see invis. rogues can't do that with the stealth nerf.

[Clark]

If you plan to raid monk is def more difficult.

[SyanideGas]

Dorf Rogue ftw.