Time to give America a raise!

[JayN]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTEXh8jIeHuh9vVGcX3mo2-No0ZfR1kbmiMyP5Y8iwHcbtsv7c

pras Obama commander in chief no one who works full time should have to live in poverty and driven to RMT!

its time for a raise America, its also a time for a raise in Norrath!

I call for an EXP bonus, lets have one please in celebration.:D

[baalzy]

Bush Towers only real option.

[Rheaume]

Minimum wage is wrong.

[JayN]

Minimum wage is wrong.

I heard some republicans want to repeal minimum wage; do you agree with these baby murderers ?

[Champion_Standing]

Raising the minimum wage is just a scam to get more money into government coffers, if they really gave a shit about working people they would eliminate the bottom 3 federal income tax brackets.

[Swish]

Bush Towers only real option.

+ XP bonus on red before any bonus on blue :p

[Quineloe]

Raising the minimum wage is just a scam to get more money into government coffers, if they really gave a shit about working people they would eliminate the bottom 3 federal income tax brackets.

How much taxes do you pay on a minimum wage job?

[Portasaurus]

Need to establish and then lower the maximum wage.

[Champion_Standing]

How much taxes do you pay on a minimum wage job?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2014+federal+income+tax+brackets

[baalzy]

^ this guy doesn't understand progressive taxes.

Edit: Nvm, did the math. Apparently I'm just an asshole. My argument was much better before I remembered to include SSi & Medicare taxes.

Federal minimum wage = 7.25 / hour. 7.25 * 40 hours a week * 52 weeks = 15080/year.
Tax rate on SSi/Medicare = 7.65% = 1153.62 taxed on that = 13926.38 net income before income tax
2014 standard deduction = 6200 = 7726.38 taxable income.

Lowest income tax bracket of 10% ends at 9075. 7726.38 < 9075
10% of 7726.38 = 772.64

772.64 + 1153.62 / 15080 = 12% effective tax rate

(2014 rates & deductions)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2013/10/31/irs-announces-2014-tax-brackets-standard-deduction-amounts-and-more/

(Note: Assuming single and no children).

[Quineloe]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2014+federal+income+tax+brackets

If you can't even tell how much taxes you're talking about, seems to be a bit stupid to talk about them being too high.

[Champion_Standing]

If you can't even tell how much taxes you're talking about, seems to be a bit stupid to talk about them being too high.

I never said anything about them being too high, I said they shouldn't exist.

[Quineloe]

What shouldn't exist?

[Champion_Standing]

What shouldn't exist?

Raising the minimum wage is just a scam to get more money into government coffers, if they really gave a shit about working people they would eliminate the bottom 3 federal income tax brackets.

[Quineloe]

Again, it's a simple question. Someone works a full time job at minimum wage, so how much is being taken out of his paycheck due to income tax?

I'm not even disagreeing with you there, I'm just curious because here such poorly paying jobs are already exempt from income tax.

[Champion_Standing]

Again, it's a simple question. Someone works a full time job at minimum wage, so how much is being taken out of his paycheck due to income tax?

I'm not even disagreeing with you there, I'm just curious because here such poorly paying jobs are already exempt from income tax.

If you work full time and make minimum wage you make enough money to be put into the lowest tax bracket. baalzy is far more motivated than I and he broke it down on page 1.

[Vilkata]

Deflate instead of inflate.

[baalzy]

Considering that most of America carries high amounts of debt, deflation would ruin us.

Inflation is about the only thing keeping us afloat.

[Swish]

^ this guy doesn't understand progressive taxes.

Edit: Nvm, did the math. Apparently I'm just an asshole. My argument was much better before I remembered to include SSi & Medicare taxes.

Federal minimum wage = 7.25 / hour. 7.25 * 40 hours a week * 52 weeks = 15080/year.
Tax rate on SSi/Medicare = 7.65% = 1153.62 taxed on that = 13926.38 net income before income tax
2014 standard deduction = 6200 = 7726.38 taxable income.

Lowest income tax bracket of 10% ends at 9075. 7726.38 < 9075
10% of 7726.38 = 772.64

772.64 + 1153.62 / 15080 = 12% effective tax rate

(2014 rates & deductions)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2013/10/31/irs-announces-2014-tax-brackets-standard-deduction-amounts-and-more/

(Note: Assuming single and no children).

http://media.giphy.com/media/WotHgjtqxZwfS/giphy.gif

[Champion_Standing]

Best sig yet swish, lol'd hard


btw stop derailing threads with your sigs

[Quineloe]

didnt see he edited his 1 line post :)

6200 really is a horribly low deduction.

[Bazia]

lets raise minimum wage and get a bunch of people working mcjobs fired

[baalzy]

Love me some Jenna Marbles.

[Quineloe]

lets raise minimum wage and get a bunch of people working mcjobs fired

a job that is paid so poorly, the employee is still on benefits and food stamps, isn't worth preserving.

[Potus]

Look at these liberal bourgeoisie and their minimum wage.

Seize means of production. Full unionization. Everyone in Wall Street put up against the wall and shot.

[baalzy]

didnt see he edited his 1 line post :)

6200 really is a horribly low deduction.

It's basically a bone thrown at the people too lazy/stupid to itemize.

[Quineloe]

Look at these liberal bourgeoisie and their minimum wage.

Seize means of production. Full unionization. Everyone in Wall Street put up against the wall and shot.

Mr Obama, Tear Down This Wall Street!

[Champion_Standing]

It's basically a bone thrown at the people too lazy/stupid to itemize.

Thanks bud

[Swish]

Look at these liberal bourgeoisie and their minimum wage.

Seize means of production. Full unionization. Everyone in Wall Street put up against the wall and shot.

Spirit of 1917 :p

[Vilkata]

Maybe people are in debt because the money they make cant buy as much as it used to?

[Swish]

Maybe people are in debt because the money they make cant buy as much as it used to?

That, plus every time the Federal Reserve (or other other equivalent) prints money it attaches a small extra amount to each dollar (not quite $1.01, but more than $1)... so the debt cycle isn't breakable, there'll always be more debt than people can pay off. If everyone paid off all their debts across the world, the world would still be in debt.

More here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve_banking) if interested... its pretty dry stuff though :/

[Kevris]

No.

Everquest live may be all about grinding max level to raid, but 99 is all about the journey.

No bonuses!!

[Aaron]

Maybe people are in debt because the money they make cant buy as much as it used to?

The dollar is worth more today than almost anytime throughout history, except for the mid 60s when it was at its highest.

[Vilkata]

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

http://www.onlygold.com/TutorialPages/prices200yrsfs.htm

[Leeyuuduu]

Despite all the QE, US inflation is also very low right now, as with almost all first world countries (Japan has been in deflation for almost 20 years and parts of Europe could follow soon), due to low demand/austerity policies, so the FRB's "money printing" is not actually having as adverse an effect on the US economy as some think. It's actually affecting developing economies more, as it's an easy source of money for them, and as QE keeps getting curtailed the USD will get stronger and these developing economies may panic a little.

Minimum wage has become a question of politics now rather than economics. Is it worth having +X amount of people laid off if the rest of the workers can have a higher quality of life? It's the price you must pay with wage floors, but politicians won't confront it.

[loramin]

That, plus every time the Federal Reserve (or other other equivalent) prints money it attaches a small extra amount to each dollar (not quite $1.01, but more than $1)... so the debt cycle isn't breakable, there'll always be more debt than people can pay off. If everyone paid off all their debts across the world, the world would still be in debt.

More here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve_banking) if interested... its pretty dry stuff though :/

I'm not sure that's quite right: normally inflation helps people with debts, and hurts debtors.

Let's say I borrow a buck from you, and then the Fed makes a bunch of money, inflating the economy and making the real value of a buck $0.99. Now I pay you back that buck, but as I just said it's really only worth $0.99. I as debtor got $1 of real value from you, but I only had to pay you back $0.99 of real value.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the Fed, but based on my radical left-wing highschool history teacher's explanation of things I do believe printing money hurts debtors, not debtees.

[Swish]

Let's say I borrow a buck from you, and then the Fed makes a bunch of money, inflating the economy and making the real value of a buck $0.99. Now I pay you back that buck, but as I just said it's really only worth $0.99. I as debtor got $1 of real value from you, but I only had to pay you back $0.99 of real value.

We're further down the chain than that, a dollar passed between two people is still a dollar. On its creation it had the slightest amount of debt added to it. Between two people its value doesn't change, we can never escape that extra fraction of a sent that was added to it even if we gave it back to the Federal Reserve. On a scale of trillions, that really begins to sting all societies.

I'm no economist, but watch as much as you can of this: http://youtu.be/EewGMBOB4Gg?t=4m25s

[JayN]

Please just give us hard working common men a lil exp bonus, in remembrance of brother zade

[Potus]

Spirit of 1917 :p

One can only hope

http://i.imgur.com/sjfoHIu.gif

[joe426]

controlled inflation def helps the people paying back their debts. the average american isnt paying attention to extra fractions, but the banks are because theyre dealing with millions of people and that shit adds up.

usa is a huge consumer market, raising the minimum wage and giving ur people more money to spend(buy prodcuts promotes good business) or save(pay back banks so they can loan out more money) would be good.

First question, how much? $10.00 seems a lil too much barack but i like how u negotiate. $7.25 minimum wage is kinda low and could use a bump. not sure what it compares to other countries and their cost of living.

The second question is who will pay for this increase in wage? there has to be a balance of businesses laying off a few workers, businesses increasing their prices a bit(pass on the increased price to the manufactures), and forced innovation from businesses to figure out how to do business better.

[Quineloe]

I'm not sure that's quite right: normally inflation helps people with debts, and hurts debtors.

we no longer have a normal situation. We have the absurd situation of "creating" billions, but not getting these billions into circulation. All this money does right now is create more debt and interest.

I'd say a minimum wage of around $15 sounds reasonable for any sort of trained work, $12 for untrained work. Don't say we can't afford that, we easily can, we just choose to make more millionaires billionaires. Ask yourself, do you want a downward spiral on wages so your country can remain competitive on exports until the competing countries adjust their wages downward so they're competitive again or do you want a strong demand for your products at home.

I'll repeat what I said before, a job that pays so little, the employee is still entitled to welfare benefits, is an anti-social job (the employer has the entire society pay part of the wages) and it's anti free-market (the employer beats the competition that pays more than minimum wage and doesn't rely on society to pay for his employees). Therefore, for a true capitalist, these jobs are not worth preserving and if they're lost due to a higher minimum wage, nothing of value is lost.

[myriverse]

Why xp bonus?

There's no sense in rushing into that great wall at the end game. It'll always be there.

We need xp penalty to make the fun of leveling last as long as possible.

And in a completely unrelated topic, I agree, Quineloe.

[Khaleesi]

I'd say a minimum wage of around $15 sounds reasonable for any sort of trained work, $12 for untrained work. Don't say we can't afford that, we easily can, we just choose to make more millionaires billionaires. Ask yourself, do you want a downward spiral on wages so your country can remain competitive on exports until the competing countries adjust their wages downward so they're competitive again or do you want a strong demand for your products at home.




Good companies pay well, if your company doesn't, find another job.

Minimum wage is a massive flaw in western capitalism. It's no longer necessary, just like unions are no longer necessary.

[justin2090]

They should take all the social program funding and give it to the working class. Want food stamps? Get a job and then we'll talk.

[JayN]

They should tax the rich 80% and give everyone a college education, internet and food

[Quineloe]

Good companies pay well, if your company doesn't, find another job.

Minimum wage is a massive flaw in western capitalism. It's no longer necessary, just like unions are no longer necessary.

I accept your blank statement without anything to back it up and am now shrugging it off

..... /shrug

[myriverse]

Good companies pay well, if your company doesn't, find another job.

Minimum wage is a massive flaw in western capitalism. It's no longer necessary, just like unions are no longer necessary.
Without unions, slavery returns. They will always be necessary.

[Sarajo]

Two important pieces of information:
1) instead of asking for an xp bonus, ask for a level playing field by eliminating class penalties.
2) inflation, deflation, debt etc.: the reason that the dollar is the world currency standard isn't because of the value of each dollar, but because of the dollar's ability to keep a relatively stable value over time. It doesn't fluctuate the way others do. All those federal reserve scams, borrowing against future prosperity by selling bonds to banks who cash them in at the treasury, all leads to that singular outcome: the value of the dollar declines, but it does so steadily.

[ibso]

Without unions, slavery returns. They will always be necessary.

Unless that's a clever joke about the Union army, it may be the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

[ibso]

They should take all the social program funding and give it to the working class. Want food stamps? Get a job and then we'll talk.

But the working class might not vote the way they want. It's a lot easier to buy votes by making the working class pay for free stuff for non-workers.

[Quineloe]

It's really sad how the corporate media has managed to convince a lot of people that unions are evil per se and serve no good purpose.

[chtulu]

Let take a huge scale union like the phone company here.

I can speak from personal experience that people on the union hardly work, are not educated and basically no nothing of their own craft.

Where as me, the contractor, knows far more, will do more (faster), and i am completely accountable for any issues or failures that I cause on the job.

The upside is that I get paid for what I know and do, so sure they get benefits and hourly, but they bring home less than 1500 a week where as I've been pulling 2500-4k a week for the last month.


TL;DR

Unions protect lazy, uneducated slobs and punish the actual hard working people that keep that business afloat.

[uygi]

Protest vote due to wrong forum.

[myriverse]

It's really sad how the corporate media has managed to convince a lot of people that unions are evil per se and serve no good purpose.
Indeed. Businesses are a bigger threat to freedom and democracy than Al Qaeda, Russia, China, and Vietnam put together. Left to their own devices, they would (and still do) bring back debtors prisons, child labour, 80-hour work weeks, etc.

[Jaylafein]

Stop devaluing our currency and no one would care about making 1.25 an hr.

[JayN]

bump

the exp is to damn low

[Erydan Ouragan]

Indeed. Businesses are a bigger threat to freedom and democracy than Al Qaeda, Russia, China, and Vietnam put together. Left to their own devices, they would (and still do) bring back debtors prisons, child labour, 80-hour work weeks, etc.

I agree, without systems in place to keep human greed in check, human greed grows exponentially.

If you're paid minimum wage, your boss is basically telling you that if he could pay you less, he would.

It has nothing to do with innovation and competition and whatever "market stratergery" mumbo-jumbo. It's all about money and they always want more of it and they will do anything to get it.

They don't give a fuck about you.

[Garg]

I don't understand how people still fail to see that raising minimum wage really doesn't equal more money in your pockets. Sure your check will be a little higher, but when you go to the store so will all of the products. If a business has to pay you more, they have to recoup that money somewhere. Only logical place to recoup that money is to raise prices.

You want to make more then minimum wage? Get off your ass, get an education or find a trade job where they will teach you via on the job training. Stop expecting handouts and everyone else to take care of you. Be responsible for your own life and make the change that you want.

[Catashe]

^ this guy doesn't understand progressive taxes.

Edit: Nvm, did the math. Apparently I'm just an asshole. My argument was much better before I remembered to include SSi & Medicare taxes.

Federal minimum wage = 7.25 / hour. 7.25 * 40 hours a week * 52 weeks = 15080/year.
Tax rate on SSi/Medicare = 7.65% = 1153.62 taxed on that = 13926.38 net income before income tax
2014 standard deduction = 6200 = 7726.38 taxable income.

Lowest income tax bracket of 10% ends at 9075. 7726.38 < 9075
10% of 7726.38 = 772.64

772.64 + 1153.62 / 15080 = 12% effective tax rate

(2014 rates & deductions)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2013/10/31/irs-announces-2014-tax-brackets-standard-deduction-amounts-and-more/

(Note: Assuming single and no children).

I honestly don't know whats more sad... That you did the math or you did the math and still did it wrong... I mean unless your claiming the standard deduction and not claiming yourself lol.... Otherwise subtract another $3,950 from your taxable income...(Yet another reason why america isn't smart enough to even do their own tax returns... *sigh*)

[Glenzig]

The dollar is worth more today than almost anytime throughout history, except for the mid 60s when it was at its highest.

This guy definitely smokes crack.