Mistmoore is not classic.

[Wip3ou7]

In classic EQ, some of the mobs in Mistmoore would charm players and even walk them back to their spawn points. Why don't they do that on P99? Mistmoore used to be a relatively dangerous place to xp, but on P99 its an overcamped cakewalk. It's standard routine for anyone lvl 20-35 to just be in mistmoore the entire time, leaving many other dungeons underplayed, and rewarding players with high a Zone Experience Modifier, in a zone that is not nearly as difficult as it was intended to be and originally was. What gives?

[Fregar]

Enchanter mobs don't charm on P99?

This remind me of a fun even on live:
Lady Nevederia charmed a paladin. He was still charmed after she died, and whole guild attacked and killed him just for giggles.

If I remember well, the soul seductress were the ones charming.
They are tagged as necro on wiki though...

[Castigate]

There's actually a lot more than just charming that isn't classic about Mistmoore. While most people seem to praise the fixes, pathing both in in MM and Kedge are extremely non-classic here, and the castle emptying trains because mobs couldn't figure out how to reach the door and through wall/floor agro that the zone was known for just don't seem to happen. While I can't claim to know how MM any of the horrendously pathed zones worked on live, I think anyone that played in them on live during this era recognizes that they aren't classic.

[Quineloe]

since pathing was also subject to constant patching, there's no "this is classic pathing" you can point out. I'd rather not have stupid pathing bugs in the game because between may and july of 2000, mobs warped through the floor in a certain dungeon and agroed the entire next level. If it was a bug back then, it shouldn't be recreated here.

[Iumuno]

Assist and aggro range in MM seem significantly smaller to me than they were on live.

[Rec]

I want EQ p98, now that was classic.

[Castigate]

since pathing was also subject to constant patching, there's no "this is classic pathing" you can point out. I'd rather not have stupid pathing bugs in the game because between may and july of 2000, mobs warped through the floor in a certain dungeon and agroed the entire next level. If it was a bug back then, it shouldn't be recreated here.

Yeah that seems to be the general consensus on it, and while it's not completely accurate it is nice to actually be able to play in areas where pathing was a mess.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=3805 has mention of them charming in 2000, also mentions that they are more tanky than other mobs which makes me think their HPs might off. On the other hand though On the other hand http://titanshall.yuku.com/topic/950/MistMoore-Castle#.Uy2BeoUtE9p states that there are only 2 Enchanters in the zone, so maybe this was either changed between 2000 and 2001, or people are just remembering getting charmed by Mynthi.
It also mentions Magreck, who doesn't seem to be in P99 at all, and provides pretty solid proof that he still existed, just probably with the haste belt instead of the chest piece as of Luclin.

[Nuggie]

Mm is a cakewalk, but consider that your average player here isn't your average player in 99. We are leaner, meaner, and much more knowledgable about not only that zone but also how our classes are played and their short comings. It's like comparing pro ball players with those in the minors. Apples to oranges.

[Alanus]

negotiator could charm. I don't think anything else could

[Swish]

Pull a couple of ancille cooks and tell me its easy :p

...and if it really is too easy, why not try and get a non-twink group together and head into Sol A/Nurga/etc? Fun is where you find it.

[webrunner5]

I have my doubts about people that THINK they remember how things were 15 years ago. :D

[SwordNboard]

MM does not have a 'high' ZEM. There is a slight one, but by no means one of the best.

[myriverse]

I only remember mez/charm being an occasional problem in MM, like when someone would train to zone.

[Quineloe]

MM does not have a 'high' ZEM. There is a slight one, but by no means one of the best.

Crushbone and Befallen usually are pretty bad exp at 30+

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Crushbone and Befallen usually are pretty bad exp at 30+

sol a can cover up to a similar range, and has a far, far higher ZEM. Trash that gnome faction bros.

[Erati]

Classic MM had any Vampire with the ability to charm.

The old 'fears' about the zone was your character would be dragged back to the castle then killed.

What actually happened was a vampire charmed you after a train and as it's pet you walked back to the castle til charm broke.

Mistmoore was so freaking scary during this time, however it did not last long as they removed vampires ability to charm. Someone can look up the patch notes.

[Clark]

negotiator could charm. I don't think anything else could

MM does not have a 'high' ZEM. There is a slight one, but by no means one of the best.

[fastboy21]

pathing is not classic...but, to make it classic you would have to intentionally "break" it to get it to be the buggy state it was on classic.

as for charming, yes. there are 1 or 2 mobs in zone that should be able to charm in era. more that should have been able to charm at launch. however, it doesn't substantially make the zone super easy "cake walk" mode.

as for ZEM, I believe this is actually classic.

the biggest issue for those in hunt of the classic experience is that you are playing with people who know the zone in and out. know how to pull it very efficiently. you are also playing with toons (even if you aren't) that are more than often VERY well geared and twinked. want a classic exp? only grp with folks wearing bronze and banded armor. zone will seem a lot more classic.

most of us play for fun...not in pursuit of some mythical classic unicorn we wish to catch a glimpse of.

[Hollywood]

pathing is not classic...but, to make it classic you would have to intentionally "break" it to get it to be the buggy state it was on classic.

as for charming, yes. there are 1 or 2 mobs in zone that should be able to charm in era. more that should have been able to charm at launch. however, it doesn't substantially make the zone super easy "cake walk" mode.

as for ZEM, I believe this is actually classic.

the biggest issue for those in hunt of the classic experience is that you are playing with people who know the zone in and out. know how to pull it very efficiently. you are also playing with toons (even if you aren't) that are more than often VERY well geared and twinked. want a classic exp? only grp with folks wearing bronze and banded armor. zone will seem a lot more classic.

most of us play for fun...not in pursuit of some mythical classic unicorn we wish to catch a glimpse of.

Maybe, but then we go right back to the question of what is and isn't classic - and more to the point what do they and what don't they have control over?

I can agree that technically speaking, they can't make the pathing terrible when they don't know exactly how it was before. But they could make mobs charm, and have chosen not to.

This is a pretty simple and good example where something has been left out, despite it being classic without dispute.

[fastboy21]

Maybe, but then we go right back to the question of what is and isn't classic - and more to the point what do they and what don't they have control over?

I can agree that technically speaking, they can't make the pathing terrible when they don't know exactly how it was before. But they could make mobs charm, and have chosen not to.

This is a pretty simple and good example where something has been left out, despite it being classic without dispute.

I'm not certain that I would jump to the conclusion that Nilbog intentionally left out charm from NPCs in mistmoore on purpose, unless he has said this somewhere already himself.

From the past experience, I would more likely think that there is a 1) a reason he couldn't do it, 2) there wasn't enough evidence in the research to do it, or 3) he hasn't gotten to it yet.

[Hollywood]

I'm not certain that I would jump to the conclusion that Nilbog intentionally left out charm from NPCs in mistmoore on purpose, unless he has said this somewhere already himself.

From the past experience, I would more likely think that there is a 1) a reason he couldn't do it, 2) there wasn't enough evidence in the research to do it, or 3) he hasn't gotten to it yet.


I would disagree with your number two. The information regarding whether the mobs charm or not is widely available and pretty much without dispute.

Unfortunately I have never seen any of the developers take details from threads like these and compile them into a large public viewable list, with an annotation or note next to each entry, saying :

1) I couldn't do it
2) There wasn't enough evidence in the research to do it
3) I haven't gotten to it yet


That would go a long ways to not only keeping the community appraised, but also encourage them to be involved more, as opposed to just chipping in now and again when one of the developers says 'working on Velious mob, can't find such and such information, any one have stats/details?'

[Castigate]

There is plenty of evidence out there showing that at very least A Negotiator and Mynthi Davissi could charm, can they not on here? I honestly can't remember

[fastboy21]

There is plenty of evidence out there showing that at very least A Negotiator and Mynthi Davissi could charm, can they not on here? I honestly can't remember

They don't...which is why, of the three options, 1 and 3 are the most likely.

The three options aren't about mistmoore. They are about non-classic things in general here.

I also disagree that Nilbog hasn't been open with the community. He posts very frequently in threads (just like this) explaining why things are the way they are, how he would want them, etc. He is very much in dialogue (as is Rogean) with the community.

[Rhambuk]

unrest hags don't charm here either, not sure of any mob that charms players so tech issue?

[JayN]

Melee are post upgrade on p99 and hit way to often compared to classic; some shit will just never be how it was.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131116013643/legomessageboards/images/8/85/Deal_with_it.png

[Erati]

unrest hags don't charm here either, not sure of any mob that charms players so tech issue?

hags are wizards...

Dragons will def charm players as will any enchanter npc that is aggro d before they summon their pet

[Striiker]

I recall getting charmed in Mistmoore and walking back to the castle, praying charm would break. I always wondered why they didn't implement that here. The Noble in SolB charmed as well. I haven't gone up against him on P99 so I don't know if he does here. I assume he does (Wiki says he does). The roaming Eye in East Karana also charmed. I recall having a warrior in my group charmed as he was smacking me back on classic live.

[nilbog]

Is there a bug report somewhere in here?

class [enchanter] npcs I see in Mistmoore are Mynthi Davissi and a negotiator. If they do not charm, let me know and I'll look into it.

As far as vampire charm, are you sure? I spent a lot of time there in classic, and only personally got charmed by the negotiator, who promptly buffed me to full and proceeded to send me to a group which I soloed, as a paladin lol.

[Shamalam]

unrest hags don't charm here either, not sure of any mob that charms players so tech issue?

Borxx in Runnyeye definitely uses charm, so the code does exist somewhere.

[lecompte]

Is there a bug report somewhere in here?

class [enchanter] npcs I see in Mistmoore are Mynthi Davissi and a negotiator. If they do not charm, let me know and I'll look into it.

As far as vampire charm, are you sure? I spent a lot of time there in classic, and only personally got charmed by the negotiator, who promptly buffed me to full and proceeded to send me to a group which I soloed, as a paladin lol.

.... I don't know, but I'm going to be experimenting with this on my ranger. See about getting Malo, Tashed, then pulling negotiator to every group in MM. If you see me -- run, level 60 charmed ranger.

[nilbog]

If npcs aren't charming properly, I'll bother people until it works. Charm should turn you into super AI killing machine. Also, PC pets charmed by npcs should remain charmed indefinitely. I had a water pet taken by a siren in cobaltscar that remained up for a couple days.

[lecompte]

My bad. I forgot about nilbog's desire to see corpses littered across Norrath.

[Wip3ou7]

I remember it being fairly common to get charmed in MM.

The "Vampiric Ancilles" must not have been Warrior-class in classic live, because I have fairly vivid memory of the mobs who did the charming being the platemail-wearing female darkelves that spawn starting as early as the castle moat/pit area at the bottom of the ramp just past the grave yard on the way to the castle entrance.

[Wip3ou7]

Classic MM had any Vampire with the ability to charm.

The old 'fears' about the zone was your character would be dragged back to the castle then killed.

What actually happened was a vampire charmed you after a train and as it's pet you walked back to the castle til charm broke.

Mistmoore was so freaking scary during this time, however it did not last long as they removed vampires ability to charm. Someone can look up the patch notes.

This

[evan1612]

Classic MM had any Vampire with the ability to charm.

The old 'fears' about the zone was your character would be dragged back to the castle then killed.

What actually happened was a vampire charmed you after a train and as it's pet you walked back to the castle til charm broke.

Mistmoore was so freaking scary during this time, however it did not last long as they removed vampires ability to charm. Someone can look up the patch notes.

That would lower MM's average player count if implemented heheh. Plus would make the zone actually interesting, only fear there currently is getting trained without a warning.

[XDrake]

Can confirm in 2000. :) Walked in on a giant MM train where castle was pulled to the entrance and that damn negotiator charmed me. Dragged lvl 18 me right into the castle. Charm broke on the bridge and she recharmed me. :p Almost got me back to her room before it broke and gargs slaughtered me.

By far one of the scariest EQ Live moments for me. :) Had no clue what was in that castle... Never been past the graveyard. Being charmed is a frightening experience.

[Wip3ou7]

Can confirm in 2000. :) Walked in on a giant MM train where castle was pulled to the entrance and that damn negotiator charmed me. Dragged lvl 18 me right into the castle. Charm broke on the bridge and she recharmed me. :p Almost got me back to her room before it broke and gargs slaughtered me.

By far one of the scariest EQ Live moments for me. :) Had no clue what was in that castle... Never been past the graveyard. Being charmed is a frightening experience.

Being charmed in MM was also one of the most impressionable moments I've ever had in EQ. This should really be fixed.