Need blue advice for future teams PvP server ruleset

[Aenor]

I'm posting this here because this has been discussed to death on the PvP forum and I'm looking for fresh ideas and perspective. Many of you would never take part in a discussion on the PvP forums because it's a giant flame/troll fest. So I'm bringing the discussion here, and I don't consider it out of place because I'm specifically seeking the input of players who do not play on the current Red99 server. It is my hope that an ideal teams PvP ruleset would attract numerous players who have no interest in the current free-for-all ruleset on Red99.

Regarding a future teams PvP server, Sirken stated on one of his twitch streams that all discussion on the part of the staff has been tabled until after Velious release. You can expect plenty of trolls to reply to this thread stating teams will never happen, but nobody on the staff has said that. I hope Velious launch is smooth and the current beta server will be left up to try out teams PvP rulesets.

The staff has further stated that they are considering dividing the teams on the basis of race (like Vallon Zek and Tallon Zek), religion (like Sullon Zek) or starting city. I've been pushing for a city-based teams ruleset but have run into some difficulty providing each team with all the necessary PvE classes. Here's what I've come up with:

Human faction:

Erudin
Qeynos (includes Surefall Glade)
Halas
Freeport

Evil faction:

Neriak
Paineel
Grobb
Oggok

Elf and shortie faction:

Rivervale
Kaladim
Kelethin (includes Felwithe)
Ak'Anon

The issue is that such a division would deny essential raid classes to certain teams. The evil team would lack monks and bards while the Elf/shortie team would lack shaman and monks. So here are some questions I had that I wanted to bring to the general community:

1. Are shadowknights a legitimate FD pulling class? I've never played a SK so I have no idea how they stack up to Monks as pullers. Evil I'm not really worried about because they will get monks once Kunark is released and Iksar are added to the Evil faction. However, what if SK's were the only FD class the Elf/shortie faction would ever get? Would that be game-breaking?

2. Would non-classic race/class combos like Halfling Shaman or Gnome Monk ruin your immersion? I really like the regional division above with one faction controlling Faydwer, Evil controlling East Antonica and Human faction controlling West Antonica. Each faction would have one city outside its sphere of influence (Rivervale, Paineel and Freeport), so that aspect would equal out. It would be very easy to know who is in your faction via racial division (humans/erudits/barbs on one faction (humans only in Surefall), elves and shorties on another, then evils. It's basically like Race War with elf and shortie teams combined).

3. If you just can't deal with the thought of non-classic combos, what would you think about the idea of making Freeport a wildcard city where all three factions could start? This would open up the bard class to the evil team and allow monks to choose the Elf/shortie team. Under this scenario I would recommend allowing barb shaman to start in freeport as well to give the neutral team access to the class. My suggestion would be to copy spell merchants and quest gives for levels 1-19 from Halas to Freeport, but make those renegade Shaman traval to Halas for any further questing/spells.

Since humans would now be on all three factions, the only way to tell who is on your team would be via player name color. My personal preference would be to simply bite the bullet and let halflings be shaman. Simply port all the halas trainers, shaman spell merchants and quest givers over to an available spot in Rivervale and change them to halflings with new names. I'm hopeful that the Elf/shortie team can get by with gnome SKs as their only FD class because that would save us all from the gnome monk. Thanks in advance for your input and let the trolling begin!

[Faerie]

It would be sad to see half elves on human team, especially when human team gets every class already. They should have to deal with being blind and vanilla lol. On live (VZ/TZ) half elves could only worship Tunare, which forced them all to start in gfay.

Cazic erudites on evil team is a great idea for RP purposes and kinda helps to balance things out by giving each team a single race option that starts in enemy territory, but does evil team really need more race/class combinations than they had on live? This would give them 3 out of the 5 necro races, and 5 out of the 7 SK races (including gnomes). Human team is already the most boring, it seems kind of unfair to take away their coolest SKs and necros and force players on that team to be human for those classes. If all the Nihilum types planned to go human team for the class benefits this would be okay... I guess it would work out either way, really.

Obviously elf team needs gnome SKs/paladins and halfling rangers/paladins. This goes without saying for any server, really. It would be good to see dwarves put onto another team (human I guess) because dwarves suck and I want to kill them.

The solution to elf team shaman is clear: Vah Shir, perhaps starting out on a custom Kerra Isle. This would also give each team the beastlord class, which isn't completely necessary but good for team balance regardless.

I dunno if dark team really needs bards. They already have what players consider to be the best race/class combinations possible for key classes. If they do need bards they should only be allowed human bards. Or maybe they could allow dark elf bards... you see tons of them all over anyway :P

[JPMorgan]

Make half elfs be able to be the classes that each faction lacks access to and put a half elf trainer of those classes in Neriak, Freeport and Kelethin.

[Faerie]

Make half elfs be able to be the classes that each faction lacks access to and put a half elf trainer of those classes in Neriak, Freeport and Kelethin.

I think you mean human? Half elves belong exclusively on elf team ;)

[Quineloe]

Stay away from fixed teams.

[JPMorgan]

I think you mean human? Half elves belong exclusively on elf team ;)

While my own half elf would be on team elf, I think this would add a nice bit of integrity to immersion while solving the problem.

Bards/Shadow Knights: Half elfs are the only other race capable of wearing the Tier'dal armor. Does this suggest that there might be half-dark-elfs among the half elf population?

Monk: Half human, the original monk race.

Shaman: While I can't really think of anything off of the top of my head to support them being half barbarian, the fact that they start in Felwith as paladins does support that they might be half high elf. High elfs aren't all that much smaller than barbarians (same height as humans), and both have the concepts of justice and honor ingrained into their cultures. A little High-barb romance might not be that far fetched, despite each race's superiority complex.

[Quineloe]

What the hell is a night elf?

[JPMorgan]

What the hell is a night elf?

Ah shit, good catch.

[Zoolander]

2 Teams would be more than enough with the current playerbase interested in this imo

[Rhambuk]

teams will be better than red.

still a fail server because, eq pvp is awful. goodluck though.....

[Swish]

The evil team is gonna be oversubscribed.

[Rec]

4 teams more fun than 3

[Quineloe]

Maybe split Dark Elves from Ogre / troll team.

[Daldaen]

4 teams more fun than 3

This.

Evil - Iksar, Troll, Ogre, DE
Human - Barb, Human, Erudite
Short - Gnome, Halfling, Dwarf
Elf - Wood Elf, High Elf, Half Elf

For great justice. Make it like classic Vallon/Tallon.

If you try to put elves and short races together, doom is inevitable.

[fadetree]

1. Are shadowknights a legitimate FD pulling class? I've never played a SK so I have no idea how they stack up to Monks as pullers. Evil I'm not really worried about because they will get monks once Kunark is released and Iksar are added to the Evil faction. However, what if SK's were the only FD class the Elf/shortie faction would ever get? Would that be game-breaking?

2. Would non-classic race/class combos like Halfling Shaman or Gnome Monk ruin your immersion? I really like the regional division above with one faction controlling Faydwer, Evil controlling East Antonica and Human faction controlling West Antonica. Each faction would have one city outside its sphere of influence (Rivervale, Paineel and Freeport), so that aspect would equal out. It would be very easy to know who is in your faction via racial division (humans/erudits/barbs on one faction (humans only in Surefall), elves and shorties on another, then evils. It's basically like Race War with elf and shortie teams combined).

3. If you just can't deal with the thought of non-classic combos, what would you think about the idea of making Freeport a wildcard city where all three factions could start? This would open up the bard class to the evil team and allow monks to choose the Elf/shortie team. Under this scenario I would recommend allowing barb shaman to start in freeport as well to give the neutral team access to the class. My suggestion would be to copy spell merchants and quest gives for levels 1-19 from Halas to Freeport, but make those renegade Shaman traval to Halas for any further questing/spells.


1. Yes, SK's are a valid FD pulling class.
2. Well, my immersion would be fine but its not classic. IF we are going to start customizing for PvP there's a lot that would be more important that this.
3. See #2.

[tristantio]

How about pair up the gods/deities and let that be the deciding factor on teams (obviously remove the Agnostic option).

Faction is already split up that way in game (goods, evils and neutrals of the same race).

Then you could have team Cazic-Thule, team Rallos Zek etc.

[innocent51]

Why trying to balance PvP in a game where PvP was never balanced and it makes its only originality?

[Swish]

Can you put "Project 1999" in front of a pvp teams server with a custom ruleset?

http://media.giphy.com/media/73BfcEjxLNzuE/giphy.gif

[Faerie]

Why trying to balance PvP in a game where PvP was never balanced and it makes its only originality?

They're trying to balance the teams with pve in mind, not pvp. You try playing without the shaman/monk classes available and see how you like it!

To those saying deity and 4 teams, Nilbog really seemed to be pushing for region-based teams. This might be partly because he wants to give the low levels a chance to get to know each other and xp it up before needing to venture over into the dangerous areas. It's a good idea, getting you bluebies invested so you're less likely to quit when the action happens :P

It seems to be pretty much decided now that there will be 3 teams, though Sirken said that nothing is absolutely set in stone yet.

[Juevento]

Just make it FFA until a toon is guilded and then the teams part is guild vs guild. Nothing else makes sense. One of the worst parts of VZ was the tool sheds that resorted to immortal healing.

[Gadwen]

Two teams.

Team 1: Wood/high/half elves, gnomes, dwarves, barbarians, erudites, iksars

Team 2: Human, Ogre, Troll, dark elf, vah shir, froglock

[Swish]

Just make it FFA until a toon is guilded and then the teams part is guild vs guild. Nothing else makes sense.

So red server then?

[Juevento]

Red was broken because for some strange reason you lost exp from a PvP death. That lead to some toxic behaviors (corpsing camping, etc) being ingrained in the population that have permanently ruined that server.

And forgive my ignorance, but are guild teams hard-coded?

[tristantio]

On red you just call LNS (loot-n-scoot) and you can get your body without issue (pretty sure its part of the PNP, but it seems everyone I've come across abides by it)

[Juhstin]

Gnome Monks? I'm okay with that or Halfling Shaman

[Yonkec]

Gnome monks. Problem solved.

[Vexenu]

EFFORT POST

I've been kicking around an idea to make a cities/regional Teams split fit in with existing EQ lore, with the goal being to create three teams that have access to every class without introducing custom race/class combinations.

I call the concept "Norrathian World War". The teams breakdown would be as follows:

Northern Alliance
Qeynos
Erudin/Paineel
Halas
Surefall Glade

Neriak & Allies
Neriak
Oggok
Freeport
Rivervale

Gnomish Axis
Ak'Anon
Kaladim
Kelethin
Felwithe
Grobb

Cabilis
Iksars would be able to pledge their allegiance to any of the three warring factions by turning in a book to an emissary from that faction. They would have to choose a side in order to progress past level 10.

Lore Backstory of the Norrathian World War

One day in Innothule Swamp, a young Troll Shadow Knight named Shuzrukk was hunting Froglok Tads. Just as he was about to attack his next target, an Ogre named Mugurg burst through the underbrush and charged the unfortunate Tad, cleanly slicing it in half with his axe. Shuzrukk took exception to Mugurg having stolen his kill of the Tad, and they got into a heated argument, which eventually ended with the Ogre's axe buried in the Troll's skull. When news of Shuzrukk's death reached Grobb, the Shadowknights of Knight Keep were outraged, and demand revenge for the death of one of their own. They immediately set out for the Feerrott and killed young Mugurg, who himself was a young Shadowknight and a member of Oggok's Green Blood Knights. The deaths of Shuzrukk and Mugurg spiraled into continued bloodshed between the rival Shadowknight guilds. When a Troll Shaman of the Dark Ones was killed, the Troll Shamans entered the fight as well. Before long the entire cities were dragged into the conflict, and Oggok and Grobb were involved in a heated war.

Far away in Ak'Anon, Hagglebaron, the richest Gnome (and some say the richest person in Norrath) monitored the Grobb/Oggok war carefully. Ever since his childhood, when his brother was eaten by an Ogre while his family vacationed in Oasis, the Hagglebaron has harbored a special hatred for all Ogres. He would have loved to see the Trolls (who he had no special love for, but who he regarded as useful tools) wipe out the Ogres entirely. Unfortunately, the latest reports showed that the Ogres were getting the best of the war, and were expected to be victorious within a few weeks. Sensing an opportunity to make money while serving his own personal agenda, the Hagglebaron reached out through his black market connections and established an underground trading route to Grobb, through which he sold the Trolls magical weapons and armor. Thus fortified, the Trolls began to beat back the Ogres, and the war began to turn in their favor.

In Neriak, the Dark Elves had been following the war closely as well. The Trolls and the Ogres had both long been allies of Neriak, so the Dark Elves had remained neutral, hoping the war would peter out quickly with as little damage as possible to each side. When reports of the new weapons and armor of the Trolls reaches Neriak, the Dark Elves knew some third party had begun meddling in the war. Dispatching their Rogues of the Ebon Mask to learn more, their intelligence quickly pointed to the supplies coming from Ak'Anon and the Hagglebaron. The Dark Elves knew that Hagglebaron was a Gnome of immense wealth and power, and had the ear of King Ak'Anon himself. They assumed that if he was supplying the Trolls he must be doing so on the King's orders, and that the Gnomes had some ulterior motive behind a Troll victory, perhaps laying the groundwork for an invasion of the Commonlands. Neriak did not want to see this happen, and merely wanted to preserve the existing balance of power. They began quietly funneling arms shipments to Oggok.

With the arms provided by the Dark Elves, the Ogres again began to gain the upper hand. Hagglebaron became desperate, and hired a band of Gnomish mercenaries to disguise themselves as Halflings and make raids on the Dark Elvish supply convoys running from Neriak to Oggok. Numerous Dark Elves were killed by the "Halflings" (Gnome Rogues), and Neriak was furious with Rivervale. For their part, the Halflings denied all involvement, terrified that the Dark Elves would invade Rivervale and Misty Thicket in retaliation. However, investigation by the Ebon Mask eventually revealed the subterfuge concocted by the Gnomes and cleared the Halflings of culpability.

As a result, Neriak declared war on Ak'Anon. Knowing nothing of the Hagglebaron's plot, King Ak'Anon assumed Neriak invented the story as a casus belli and had been secretly planning a war for some time. The Dwarves, High Elves and Wood Elves, fearing a Dark Elf invasion of Faydwer, quickly allied themselves with Ak'Anon to discourage this from happening, hoping to scare Neriak into abandoning the war by uniting all of Faydwer against them. Unfortunately, the Faydwerians miscalculated, and their quickness to form a defensive alliance looked a little too convenient from the perspective of the Antonicans. From their point of view, it looked like this had been the plan all along: a Gnomish conspiracy to destabilize Neriak's Troll and Ogre armies, leading to an invasion of Antonica by a united Faydwer alliance. Following these events, a fearful Freeport quickly allied herself with Neriak. The Halflings of Rivervale already felt betrayed by the Gnomes, who had framed them for the massacres of the Dark Elf convoys. Now, news of the Faydwerian alliance and a rumored invasion of Antonica pushed the Halflings to do the unthinkable. Overcome with fear and anger, they too allied themselves with Neriak.

Far in the North, the Barbarians, Erudites and residents of Qeynos looked on the recent happenings with great confusion. Being remote from the emerging conflict, these three cities pledged to remain neutral. And so the war began, with Neriak, Freeport, Rivervale and Oggok fighting against united Faydwer and the Trolls of Grobb, who had grown dependent on Gnomish supplies by this point. The war raged for months, the Commonlands and much of Faydwer being stained in blood. Neither side could gain the upper hand.

Meanwhile in the North, Barbarian excavators had uncovered some kind of ancient artifact in the ice caverns of Everfrost. They called in an Erudite Wizard to identify it, but he couldn't make sense of the artifact, except to note the immense magical power it contained. As more Wizards came to examine the artifact, they began to notice that after being around it their physical and magical powers were heightened for several days afterward. Magic users spells became more powerful, and Warriors stronger and more durable. Fearful that news of this discovery might spread to the warring factions, the Wizards resolved to keep the artifact a secret.

Unfortunately, such things rarely stay secret for long. News of the artifact and its power leaked out to both Neriak and Ak'Anon. Each side knew that if they could possess the artifact they could use it to enhance their armies and claim victory in the war. However, each side also knew that to obtain the artifact they would have to attack the Neutral Alliance and thereby open up a second front in the war. Neither Neriak nor Ak'Anon wanted to risk this, and so they both began a stealth campaign to steal the artifact for themselves while maintaining deniability. And so Neriak dispatched Halflings dressed like Gnomes, while Ak'Anon sent Gnomes dressed like Halflings. Each side blamed the other for attempting to steal the artifact. The Neutral cities of the North felt under attack from both factions, and in order to defend the artifact they banded together to form the Northern Alliance and declared themselves hostile to both Neriak and Ak'Anon until the cessation of the war between the two.

And so the Norrathian World War raged on for months. When the lost continent of Kunark was discovered in the middle of the conflict, the Iksar had no horse in the race. The leadership of Cabilis took no official position on the Antonican/Faydwyer war, viewing conflict between smoothskins as beneath them. Iksar adventurers were free to sell their blades, fists or magical skills to whichever army they pleased, even if this meant Iksar slaying their fellow Iksar. Such a culling of the weak would only strengthen the Brood over time, the Iksar elders thought.

Notes


The power of the Northern Alliance artifact would grant the entire team a +15% experience bonus and +5 to all starting stats. This helps to compensate them for weaker racial choices and a weaker geographical stronghold compared to the other factions.
Some Human Monks from Freeport had been working to establish a small monastery near Kelethin when the war broke out. Having a strong affinity for Elven culture, these monks chose to side with Faydwer in the war. (Result: Human monks on the Gnomish team, they can start in Gfay and there is a GM Monk trainer in the corner of Gfay)
Iksars can turn in a PoD style book to a faction emissary in Cabilis to pick their team. XP is disabled at level 10 until the book is turned in, and once done there is no switching teams.
This ruleset would give each team access to every class, and would also give each team a geographically contiguous stronghold for leveling. It would make Kunark totally FFA rather than having one team own it like happened on SZ. Kunark would truly have a Wild West feel, with every faction battling there and the bloodthirsty Iksar reveling in the slaughter.


Thoughts?
I believe this would provide a good gameplay balance for Teams and that the backstory of the concept provides rationale for those teams within the lore of the EQ universe. Thoughts?

[Yonkec]

+1 for the above post

[Faerie]

Gnomish Axis

I actually laughed when I read this!

[Glissando]

Notes


Some Human Monks from Freeport had been working to establish a small monastery near Kelethin when the war broke out. Having a strong affinity for Elven culture, these monks chose to side with Faydwer in the war. (Result: Human monks on the Gnomish team, they can start in Gfay and there is a GM Monk trainer in the corner of Gfay)


Thoughts?


iirc Master Wu had a camp in Lfay so you could easily move the squatter DEs elsewhere in order to have a monk trainer and merchant there. Yes... not classic but it works nicely for your idea.

That said, the old Evils, Humans, Shorties/Elves teams works pretty well too, especially if you let Iksar choose a team once Kunark is discovered. Evils still don't get Bards, Rangers, Paladins or Druids but shorties and humans get everything. This makes up for the evils better min/max capabilities.

So the teams for the sake of convenient lowbie grouping, NPC factions and trying to balance the inherent advantage of evils would be:

Erudites, Barbs, Humans, Halflings

Trolls, Ogres, Darkies

Gnomes, Elves, Dwarves

Iksars choose their own team at level 10.

[rollin5k]

I think if its not region based its loses the owned territory feel. The lack of classes is ok its countered by the good territory owned by evils. iksars being mixed faction is also kind if lame they'll basically be ffa at ten. I think they should just be evil

[Swish]

Cabilis
Iksars would be able to pledge their allegiance to any of the three warring factions by turning in a book to an emissary from that faction. They would have to choose a side in order to progress past level 10.

I liked most things in that post, however... surely this makes the iksar look weak. The iksar should have races trying to join them instead :p

[Vexenu]

If you go by EQ lore, the Iksars really aren't Evil in the sense that they would ally themselves with other Evil races. They're Evil in the sense that they view themselves as the master race of Norrath and view every other race as beneath them and worthy of death. So really, it wouldn't make sense for Iksars to officially ally with Neriak any more than it would make sense for them to ally with the good races.

From a lore perspective it makes much more sense for the Iksar to just kill whoever they want. This would also apply to Iksar killing other Iksar, as the Iksar culture is all about purging its weak members. In a happy coincidence, allowing Iksars to choose their team also turns out to be good from a balance perspective, as it denies any one team a monopoly on Kunark, which is an enormously powerful advantage (as SZ showed) and quickly leads to imbalanced teams.

[JPMorgan]

This ruleset would give each team access to every class, and would also give each team a geographically contiguous stronghold for leveling. It would make Kunark totally FFA rather than having one team own it like happened on SZ. Kunark would truly have a Wild West feel, with every faction battling there and the bloodthirsty Iksar reveling in the slaughter.


All your ideas are awesome, but this one takes the cake. I think this could make for a really fun server.

[Wrench]

I'm posting this here because this has been discussed to death on the PvP forum and I'm looking for fresh ideas and perspective

knew as soon as i read this that more than half the responses would be from red

lmfao

[Fuzy]

Make an exact copy of Tallon Zek... end of story! Best server in the history of the game.

[Aenor]

Stay away from fixed teams.

Thats server has already been done. It's available at log in. This is a discussion of the teams server proposed by the staff.

1. Yes, SK's are a valid FD pulling class.

Awesome, that's what I needed to know.

Can you put "Project 1999" in front of a pvp teams server with a custom ruleset?

Well, the staff is not redoing Sullon, Tallon or Rallos. So that decision has already been made at the top of the food chain. We're not debating if P99 can do a custom ruleset. We're debating which custom ruleset P99 should do.

Thoughts?

Shortie team still doesn't have monks.

Thanks for the responses everyone! Halfling shaman it is!

[Fame]

You still don't know teams was a troll to counter a dip in rmt kickbacks?

[Vexenu]

Shortie team still doesn't have monks.

Thanks for the responses everyone! Halfling shaman it is!

I know it was a wall of text, but you really should read to the end.

[Fael]

Two teams: Evils and goods. Allow humans and barbs and eruds to pick sides based on diety.


Dolic

[JPMorgan]

Two teams: Evils and goods. Allow humans and barbs and eruds to pick sides based on diety.


Dolic

Humans, Iksars and Eurds would make more sense.

But, I personally like the concept of 3-4 teams better.

[Faerie]

While halflings would obviously be cooler shaman, wouldn't it make a bit more sense to give the class to the wood elves?

[Aenor]

You still don't know teams was a troll to counter a dip in rmt kickbacks?

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that your conspiracy theory is valid. How would announcing a new server increase RMT sales on the existing server? Wouldn't it have the opposite effect? If people thought that the population of the existing server was going to drop as a result of players leaving to try the next new thing, in what way would that encourage RMT sales on a population-challenged server?

[Fame]

You already have the answers that you seek.

[Clark]

What the hell is a night elf?

lol

[fadetree]

How bout we just get rid of the miserable halflings all together. Turn Rivervale into a city of very short, hairy undead with ridiculously cheerful music.

[Mirakk82]

Elf and shortie faction:

Rivervale
Kaladim
Kelethin (includes Felwithe)
Ak'Anon


This is not ideal, considering all of that continent is one faction. They'd be able to level relatively un-molested by comparison to folks in say... Freeport.

Neriak and Grobb aren't too far away from Freeport and it could lead to them getting pinched pretty hard. Especially with the Elf faction coming in via boat from the sea as well. Pretty much sucks to be them.

[grenravenlock]

Make it diety based on the same concept of good/evil/neutral. This is assuming it is possible to add in a forced a diety choice. It also adds to the classic nature since people cannot take the easy road and be agnostic so the good/evil/neutral setting will actually be felt everytime you travel.

[Faerie]

i hope they find some unbiased gms for teams

Sirken's been nicer to us than we've deserved.

[Fael]

you tards dont realize that if the teams arent absolutely balanced, its a disaster.

you can't balance 4 teams and allow each team to retain the essential raid classes: specifically bards, monks, shamen, etc.

The only way you can do that is go 2 teams or have diety based teams (maybe).

Dolic

[Champion_Standing]

Teams server will never keep a big enough playerbase to have more than 2 teams. I give the server 3 months of decent life if it has 3 teams, 5-6 months maybe if it has two teams and you split min/max options evenly.

Eventually it will deteriorate into a single dominate team and you all know it, 2, 3, 4 or 5 teams. It's going be another back ally for the biggest degenerates of the gaming world.

[Absenthe]

I don't know what everyone's experiences were like on pvp teams but I played on Tallon Zek which was DE/TRL/OGR/IKS, ELF/HEF/HIE, DWF/GNM/HFL, HMN/ERU/BAR and the game never seemed unbalanced. Usually it was all of the good races vs the evil races in big pvp interactions. People still grouped together despite their alignment and often times you'd see things like a troll helping a wood elf fight a barbarian etc.

When going by Good/Evil/Neutral, people seem to flock to all going Neutral and it makes things a bit boring I think.

[Yonkec]

Everquest 2 was a decent study in such things as well on the Nagafen server. Initially was good vs evil, and the class limits were imposed and enforced. After or around Kingdom of Sky it became a G v N v E setup that resulted in much lolz as the Neutral faction took over the server with their superior "All classes here" setup.

Raiding with "Good" guilds and you lost Bruisers / Defilers / SK's or whatever. Evil raiding guilds lost their counterparts. No idea if the devs ever actually gave a thought to balancing the classes with that in mind as the server was such a small subset of the overall game, but it was possible and likely resulted in some ingenuity and creativity on the larger guilds who still got it done. I'm not trying to directly compare this with that because EQ2 obviously has a much more spread out class structure and lots of overlapping skills between Good/Evil type classes that EQ certainly does not have in this era.

Finally they decided to implement a third faction, "Exiled" which consisted of removing all the benefits and "safety" of a real city, and throwing you into a hole under Nektulos that contained the bare essential merchants / tradeskill shit, and making it so the rest of the world hates you. The sole saving grace of the Exiled faction aside from making you feel cool was that you could have any class/race combo in the game, in your raiding guild. What happened? Come Kingdom of Sky expansion, the top Good guild and a top Evil guild rolled into this new "Neutral" Faction, merged, had much class sex, and basically took a shit on the rest of the server. For a while we were server firsting raid targets while simultaneously pvping a rival guild.


Moral of the story? Give everyone a choice between SemiGimped Faction A, SemiGmped Faction B, or Everything Faction C, and the hardcore of the server roll with Everything Faction C, min/max to the max, , and profit.

I believe, but I could be wrong, that EQ2 solved the issue by letting everyone make any race/class combo within reason(To give each faction access to each class) and not adhere to the traditional setup that is just not viable in a PvP environment.

[Vega]

I like the standard 3 team divisions (humans, evils, shorties). Although they may need to add back in gnome SKs to give the shorties a pulling class. I can't imagine adding that back in would be easy though, since the data base has probably been adjusted for each item to strip them out.

[Aenor]

This is not ideal, considering all of that continent is one faction. They'd be able to level relatively un-molested by comparison to folks in say... Freeport.

Neriak and Grobb aren't too far away from Freeport and it could lead to them getting pinched pretty hard. Especially with the Elf faction coming in via boat from the sea as well. Pretty much sucks to be them.

Yeah Freeport is screwed no matter what. Few would play evil Erudites so that's kind of a dead city for the evil team as well. Shortie/elf team would certainly have an advantage with exclusive access to Mistmoore and Unrest. But evil team has a much larger advantage with the closest bind points to sol a, sol b, Najena, Guk and CT. Human team gets Perma and Splitpaw.