Hell level(s) Myth?

[skyseyes]

I believe that hell levels are a myth and I have a solid supporting theory.
Do you believe in Hell levels?
Why do you believe in hell levels?
Is there hard evidence that a or multiple hell levels exist?

Comment below and let me know if you believe in hell levels and why.

Thank you. :cool:

[Jimjam]

Level 1 is easy enough (once you managed to get a name!), its down hill from there though :p

[skyseyes]

That is really not very applicable.. But thank you for your input. :cool:

[Byrjun]

30, 35, 40, 45, 51, 54, 59.

[Hollywood]

Better question is do hell levels exist on P99 and are they identical values to original EQ?

[Swish]

Getting to 60 wasn't this time consuming on live during Kunark. There, I said it :p

[quido]

Don't believe the mumbo-jumbo! It has never been proven

[Tecmos Deception]

Anyone who has leveled 1-60 knows hell levels exist.

XP formulas on wiki seem accurate.

[TWDL_Prexus]

All you need to use is an UI that shows your exp in %. Not hard to tell whats a hell level when you go from 2% a kill, to 1% a kill the next level, then 2-3% a kill the following level. They do exist, and no exp on here is not the same as live.

[Pablo999]

45 was WAY harder than 46. that's my proof

[Cecily]

There's no such things as hell levels. Not for the first 60 levels at least.
Hell is every level you get after that, literally chasing the dragon, in a Sisyphean nightmare called alts.

[radditsu]

I am an atheist. I dont believe in hell levels.

[Cecily]

My cleric alt will pray for you.

[Rasah]

Die in the following levels: 45, 46, 47. See how much exp you lose in each. That is all the proof you need.

[Tealia]

hell level is a silly name cause you play to have fun and you get to have twice the fun in those levels. I call them extrafuns levels

[Pint]

hell level is a silly name cause you play to have fun and you get to have twice the fun in those levels. I call them extrafuns levels

[Jimjam]

hell level is a silly name cause you play to have fun and you get to have twice the fun in those levels. I call them extrafuns levels

I kinda agree. And Hybrids don't get xp penalties, they get fun bonus!

[myriverse]

Anyone who has leveled 1-60 knows hell levels exist.

XP formulas on wiki seem accurate.
Heck, you can even tell in level 30 that something is not right.

[myriverse]

hell level is a silly name cause you play to have fun and you get to have twice the fun in those levels. I call them extrafuns levels
If that's your attitude, just keep dying.

Next time someone trains you, give them some plat for giving you extrafun.:D

[Tealia]

If that's your attitude, just keep dying.

Next time someone trains you, give them some plat for giving you extrafun.:D

Sometimes i think about it because lots of the time you outlevel where you want to go explore because you were having fun in another place of similar level at the time.

[Wip3ou7]

Hell levels exist and there is proof. It's in the game's code, which we have access to and have analyzed. Thus P99 exists. With hell levels.

[Nisei]

I kinda agree. And Hybrids don't get xp penalties, they get fun bonus!

Winner

[skyseyes]

Okay, Thank you for all of the input! :cool:

My theory is that if you can find mobs, either in dungeons for ZEM or just regular zones that can give you even 1% exp and you keep finding mobs or an area that has mobs that are giving you 1% exp at each level as you progress, it will always take 100 of those mobs to kill before you level no matter what level you are. With that said.. The only thing to be considered hell or to fit the description of a hell level would be increased experience loss upon death. You would only have to kill 5900 mobs giving you 1% exp at each level to reach 60 and it would be even across the board on each level granted that you don't die! :p

Obviously there is the challenge of finding those mobs and you will likely have to solo to get that kind of exp all the time. Dying will slow this process down obviously.

That's my theory.

I have never leveled a Character to 60 on p99 or live so I honestly don't know yet if you can constantly find mobs to give you 1% exp in the higher levels, however I have been consistently following this theory and have been leveling at a considerable rate. Soloing has been my best method for achieving this amount of exp and I often push for mobs that are giving 2-4% exp by soloing in Dungeons for ZEM.

Please leave applicable replies below. :cool:

[Thulack]

your not going to find mobs that give you 1% a kill at 54 or 59.

[myriverse]

That's my theory.
You can just put your theories away. What have been affectionately called "hell levels" have been proven to exist for 12+ years.

It doesn't always take the same amount of mobs to level. For "hell levels" it takes approximately double the number of even con mobs than it does for the levels before and after them.

[Briscoe]

Okay, Thank you for all of the input! :cool:

My theory is that if you can find mobs, either in dungeons for ZEM or just regular zones that can give you even 1% exp and you keep finding mobs or an area that has mobs that are giving you 1% exp at each level as you progress, it will always take 100 of those mobs to kill before you level no matter what level you are. With that said.. The only thing to be considered hell or to fit the description of a hell level would be increased experience loss upon death. You would only have to kill 5900 mobs giving you 1% exp at each level to reach 60 and it would be even across the board on each level granted that you don't die! :p

Obviously there is the challenge of finding those mobs and you will likely have to solo to get that kind of exp all the time. Dying will slow this process down obviously.

That's my theory.

I have never leveled a Character to 60 on p99 or live so I honestly don't know yet if you can constantly find mobs to give you 1% exp in the higher levels, however I have been consistently following this theory and have been leveling at a considerable rate. Soloing has been my best method for achieving this amount of exp and I often push for mobs that are giving 2-4% exp by soloing in Dungeons for ZEM.

Please leave applicable replies below. :cool:

I read this, then carefully reread it, and I still have no idea what the fuck you are trying to say. Hell levels exist.

[sox7d]

Level 2 is a hell level. Takes about an hour of killing blues, you don't have anything interesting about your class yet and you can't go to orc hill until lvl 3.

I swear level 2 was put in to prevent people from playing EQ.

[skyseyes]

I read this, then carefully reread it, and I still have no idea what the fuck you are trying to say. Hell levels exist.

Reading comprehension. I also feel this reply is rather coarse in nature.

You can just put your theories away. What have been affectionately called "hell levels" have been proven to exist for 12+ years.

It doesn't always take the same amount of mobs to level. For "hell levels" it takes approximately double the number of even con mobs than it does for the levels before and after them.

Another rough response. I never said "It always takes the same amount of mobs to level." I said in theory a mob that is giving you 1% exp per kill would result in you leveling after killing 100 of those mobs no matter what level you are.

According to the wiki reference table its not always twice the amount of even con mobs, in fact the "Hell" multiplier does not get to 2 until level 55.

My theory as a theory is legitimate based on the numbers implied.
All that matters is that the mob is giving you 1% exp, not what it cons to you.

This cannot be denied as numbers do not lie, and that is no theory. :cool:

I also have to encourage both of you to refrain from being so Crude, its not very becoming.

I am looking for applicable responses, not trolling or biased opinions. Perhaps even field testing as I am currently doing to credit or discredit the theory. Especially not foul language. :cool:

[Tecmos Deception]

They are telling you that your theory sucks.

[Nisei]

They are telling you that your theory sucks.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Fame]

They are telling you that your theory sucks.

A deeper shade of red every day

[Thulack]

A deeper shade of red every day

If you know Tecmos that wasn't a newer side of him :D

[Tecmos Deception]

Yeah I've always had a knack for getting rustled randomly here or there on the forums.

[skyseyes]

Honestly.. That's just down right rude.
Certainly a knack.. keep it up, you lead by a great example.

[skyseyes]

Go some where else if you want to troll people on some captain obvious post with no respect for others like a child or is that just how you contribute to p99? Rhetorical though I would think someone who is so attentive of the obvious would get that.

[Bolix]

See the info on the wiki on hell levels
http://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics#Hell_levels

It sets out some data backing up the subjective feeling that there are hell levels.

[justin2090]

Level 59 can turn a healthy man into a neck beard.

[Clark]

30, 35, 40, 45, 51, 54, 59.

[myriverse]

Another rough response. I never said "It always takes the same amount of mobs to level." I said in theory a mob that is giving you 1% exp per kill would result in you leveling after killing 100 of those mobs no matter what level you are.
Well, duh. 1% is 1%. By definition, 100 of them will give you 100%. That's a mathematical law. It's irrelevant to the topic though, because that is not what defines a "hell level."

According to the wiki reference table its not always twice the amount of even con mobs, in fact the "Hell" multiplier does not get to 2 until level 55.
First, I said approximately double. It's not precisely double, it's slightly more than double, and second, the multiplier doesn't have everything to do with this, because of the differences of mob exp values.

For a Human Warrior:

@ level 29, it takes about 34 even cons to ding.
@ level 30, it takes 70 even cons to ding. Slightly more than double, hence "hell level."
@ level 31, it takes 38 even cons to ding, which shows the return to normalcy.

@ level 34: 38
@ level 35: 80 Again, more than double.
@ level 36: 42 Aaaand, the return to normalcy.

@ level 39: 42
@ level 40: 90 Again...
@ level 41: 45

@ level 44: 45
@ level 45: 99 And again...
@ level 46: 49

@ level 50: 49
@ level 51: 110

After this all levels are "hell," and 54 and 59 are "double hell" levels.

My theory as a theory is legitimate based on the numbers implied.
All that matters is that the mob is giving you 1% exp, not what it cons to you.
It just becomes harder and harder to find mobs giving the same level of exp.

[webrunner5]

Level 59 can turn a healthy man into a neck beard.

What he says. Scary level. :eek:

[Bazia]

54 is the worst, at least at 59 you know you're close to being done so it's easier to stay motivated.

[Cecily]

59 is horribad. My advice is wait for the server to go crazy and Rogean gives us 2x EXP. Absolute best way to get through it.

[Jimjam]

That is really not very applicable.. But thank you for your input. :cool:

Ah, I didn't realise you were seriously calling in to question the existence of hell levels. I grabbed a bunch of 44s and hit CoM. Good XP, we all hit 45 close to the same time, once we were 45 things slowed down a lot. Once we all hit 46 things seemed to speed up a bit as we were securing level before log off. The Pre-Kunark hell levels really aren't that bad if you don't clock watch. An long evening or two is normally enough to get over a level of xp if you are organised.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

59 is horribad. My advice is wait for the server to go crazy and Rogean gives us 2x EXP. Absolute best way to get through it.

Both Nef and Kry did 59 in 1 day. Just got to pray to do the chardok gods.

[Bazia]

chardok should be nerfed just like the skyfire aoes

[Daldaen]

Not classic.

I really wish I knew where that NOT CLASSIC milk gif was.

[Quineloe]

How do hell levels work on a technical point of view, in that exp calculator thing I noticed that the difference between 29 and 30 was just a bit less than between 30 and 31. Is there a penalty applied to exp gained?

I have never leveled a Character to 60 on p99 or live

We know, man. We know.

[Tecmos Deception]

Just go read the wiki entries about XP, people!

http://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics#Experience_Requirement_by_Level

[skyseyes]

The wiki's reference page on leveling game mechanics is definitely helpful in terms of understanding the math behind it.

Hell levels definitely exist, this is to be sure.

However my theory is all about attaining the same amount of exp per kill no matter what level you are. Using dungeon soloing to make use of ZEM is key for the Hell levels. So unknowingly I have been flying through my early hell levels with out realizing it was a hell level because I was getting the same amount of exp merely by utilizing ZEM.
This is why I felt as if hell levels were a myth and some backwards way of rationalizing why its taking so long to level.

So to sum up my theory.. Its been manifested in attempt to bypass the penalties applied during certain levels, making it seem as if there is no such thing as a hell level.
How could it feel or seem like a hell level if you are always getting the same amount of exp in percentage?

I do appreciate all of the constructive feed back from everyone.

Also I want to add that some of you who will remain unnamed should really consider being more respectful about the words you choose when making a reply.
Now I understand that hell levels do exist but during the process I did feel as if some were more or less verbally attacking me for even questioning its existence.
I am pretty new to p99 and am still learning the game as I am sure everyone was once new to this game during live or now and that respect should be given to all.

[Gaffin 7.0]

Both Nef and Kry did 59 in 1 day. Just got to pray to do the chardok gods.

u pl'd gaf half of 59 to ding 60 in like 4-5 hrs was fun not that bad

[Quineloe]

The wiki's reference page on leveling game mechanics is definitely helpful in terms of understanding the math behind it.

Hell levels definitely exist, this is to be sure.

However my theory is all about attaining the same amount of exp per kill no matter what level you are. Using dungeon soloing to make use of ZEM is key for the Hell levels. So unknowingly I have been flying through my early hell levels with out realizing it was a hell level because I was getting the same amount of exp merely by utilizing ZEM.
This is why I felt as if hell levels were a myth and some backwards way of rationalizing why its taking so long to level.

So to sum up my theory.. Its been manifested in attempt to bypass the penalties applied during certain levels, making it seem as if there is no such thing as a hell level.
How could it feel or seem like a hell level if you are always getting the same amount of exp in percentage?

I do appreciate all of the constructive feed back from everyone.

Also I want to add that some of you who will remain unnamed should really consider being more respectful about the words you choose when making a reply.
Now I understand that hell levels do exist but during the process I did feel as if some were more or less verbally attacking me for even questioning its existence.
I am pretty new to p99 and am still learning the game as I am sure everyone was once new to this game during live or now and that respect should be given to all.

So your idea is that from let's say 20-29, you should find some shit light blue mob in an outdoor zone and kill that until you're 30, then kill blue cons in a 130 ZEM dungeon until you ding so you can maintain the same amount of mobs per level?

Basically, level at hell level speed throughout the entire game?

You should learn the game, not how to "master" that yellow and blue bar in your inventory.

Just cut this whole thing short: What are you trying to accomplish?

and the reason some people were hostile from the start was because your post opened with this gem "I believe hell levels are a myth and I have a sound theory as proof"
So for a start, you don't know what "theory" means, and the troll vibe was very strong with that post.

[Gaffin 7.0]

op thinks hell levels can be avoided by killing in zem dungeons, basically dum and never lvled to 60 because they sure as hell exist

[Nisei]

op thinks hell levels can be avoided by killing in zem dungeons, basically dum and never lvled to 60 because they sure as hell exist

POW!

[oil]

xp isn't by percent, its a raw number

you can get 0.0001% in an experience trigger

i dont really know how you'd use this theory other than going to 2x ZEM to counter-act the 2x requirement for hell levels... why wouldnt you just go to the 2x ZEM on every level?

[stonez138]

I have a theory. Now I might be crazy but I think if you could find 1 mob to give you 100% experience it would take 1 kill to gain a level EVEN in hell levels! Or maybe, if I may elaborate, you find a mob that gives 50% a kill you can level up by killing 2 monsters NO MATTER WHAT LEVEL YOU ARE!

Discuss....

[Kekephee]

The wiki has a pretty good formula for this.

-Kill mobs that give the most exp possible
-Kill as many of them as you can
-If you have to kill mobs that give lower exp, kill a lot more of them to make up for it.

[Shaakglith12194]

The wiki's reference page on leveling game mechanics is definitely helpful in terms of understanding the math behind it.

Hell levels definitely exist, this is to be sure.

However my theory is all about attaining the same amount of exp per kill no matter what level you are. Using dungeon soloing to make use of ZEM is key for the Hell levels. So unknowingly I have been flying through my early hell levels with out realizing it was a hell level because I was getting the same amount of exp merely by utilizing ZEM.
This is why I felt as if hell levels were a myth and some backwards way of rationalizing why its taking so long to level.

So to sum up my theory.. Its been manifested in attempt to bypass the penalties applied during certain levels, making it seem as if there is no such thing as a hell level.
How could it feel or seem like a hell level if you are always getting the same amount of exp in percentage?

I do appreciate all of the constructive feed back from everyone.

Also I want to add that some of you who will remain unnamed should really consider being more respectful about the words you choose when making a reply.
Now I understand that hell levels do exist but during the process I did feel as if some were more or less verbally attacking me for even questioning its existence.
I am pretty new to p99 and am still learning the game as I am sure everyone was once new to this game during live or now and that respect should be given to all.

Yeah, you must not be 30 yet. I look back at 30, 35, 40, 45, and 51-53 with fondness. The higher level you get, the harder the mobs are. You go to seb and try to solo even cons, see how that works out. Or Chardok. When you hit 54+, you'll really know what hell levels are. It's sitting at the keyboard for 12+ hours straihht in a kickass experience group to come away with 30% of a level, if you're lucky. That is literally hundreds, if not thousands, of mobs killed. And the farther you go towards 60, the worse it gets. Doesn't sound bad until you realize that logging on and getting into a group immediately doesn't happen that often for most players, and then you think about how many sessions like that it will take to hit 60. And then revise that number of sessions and increase it every time you level u, because "omg, how is this level possibly worse than the last one??? It's so much worse!". EverQuest!

[Vindor]

My theory is that if you can find mobs, either in dungeons for ZEM or just regular zones that can give you even 1% exp and you keep finding mobs or an area that has mobs that are giving you 1% exp at each level as you progress, it will always take 100 of those mobs to kill before you level no matter what level you are.

Well yes of course :eek:

With that said.. The only thing to be considered hell or to fit the description of a hell level would be increased experience loss upon death.

Well actually you dont lose more xp on death on hell level. That is why % wise you lose less.

You would only have to kill 5900 mobs giving you 1% exp at each level to reach 60 and it would be even across the board on each level granted that you don't die! :p

I dont think its possible, but even so : :confused:



Obviously there is the challenge of finding those mobs and you will likely have to solo to get that kind of exp all the time. Dying will slow this process down obviously.

That's my theory.

I have never leveled a Character to 60 on p99 or live so I honestly don't know yet if you can constantly find mobs to give you 1% exp in the higher levels, however I have been consistently following this theory and have been leveling at a considerable rate. Soloing has been my best method for achieving this amount of exp and I often push for mobs that are giving 2-4% exp by soloing in Dungeons for ZEM.

Please leave applicable replies below. :cool:

So your "theory" is that if you find mobs that gives you more xp you wont feel the effect of hell level ? Well yes ... but they do exist, no myth there.

[Afene]

The theory is correct, but the conclusion is false.

If I have to kill a blue con at a certain level to get 1% per kill, but would need a yellow con for 1% at a "hell" level, it means it takes longer to level, since killing a yellow con mob takes longer then killing the blue con mob.

[Tankdan]

Anyone who has leveled 1-60 knows hell levels exist. XP formulas on wiki seem accurate.


I surely don't remember no hell level at 30 back in the day. but I trust the Devs did their research.

As for leveling speed, its much faster now since we actually know the world of Norrath and know where to go, what to buy, etc. Unless your play time is very limited, of course. But then again I wouldnt play P99 if my playtime was very minimal, like less than 10 hours a week..

[skyseyes]

and the reason some people were hostile from the start was because your post opened with this gem "I believe hell levels are a myth and I have a sound theory as proof"
So for a start, you don't know what "theory" means, and the troll vibe was very strong with that post.

Use real quotes please.

the·o·ry
ˈTHēərē,ˈTHi(ə)rē/
noun
noun: theory; plural noun: theories

1.
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

I believe that hell levels are a myth and I have a solid supporting theory.
Do you believe in Hell levels?
Why do you believe in hell levels?
Is there hard evidence that a or multiple hell levels exist?

Comment below and let me know if you believe in hell levels and why.

Thank you. :cool:

My theory to rule out the idea of hell levels was obviously wrong as I admitted many posts ago.

I was just trying to accomplish a better understanding for the game and its mechanics through personal intervention and it worked. Thank you everyone for your input!

It is always good to be aware of the idea that someone may be trolling you.
I however am not trolling and have come to a better understanding with the aid of this community and am grateful for that even if I took some flak for it. :cool:

[Clark]

30, 35, 40, 45, 51, 54, 59.

[Mirana]

My theory is that if you can find mobs that can give you even 1% exp, it will always take 100 of those mobs to kill before you level.

HOW CAN YOU BE SURE?!?!?!?

[Vidar]

The level of stupid in this thread...

Here's a theory for you. If you could create a medicine that cures cancer...not nearly as many people would die from cancer...

Here is another one.

If you paint your living room wall blue, then you will have a blue wall in your house.

If a tire goes flat on your car YOU HAVE A FLAT TIRE!! OMG OMG

[mgellan]

(A post from Halcyon on eqclassic that explains it well)

Hell levels were just the result of the formula used to calculate how much experience you needed to level. If you look at the formula you can see why those specific levels take that much longer.

http://www.webslinky.com/darkomen/xp/eqexp3.html

Also, looking at the formula, I would make an educated guess and say that they did not intend for the hell levels to be there, but rather for sets of levels to take longer. i.e.: The experience required to level from 35-39 should increase at a faster rate (or accelerate quicker for people that understand that) than the the experience required to go from 30-34. A side effect from that paradigm is that the first level in the new "block" will take that much longer.

As for being built into the client, I 'm guessing it was to save time on calculations or they used it as reference or something like that. Since there is a formula for levels and it differs based on race and class I can't see any other purpose for it to hard coded in the client. I doubt it was in there as "hell level, this should take longer" or anything like that.

This easier formula should explain it better. Say the forumla for the experience required to be a level (L) is as follows:

expNeeded = L * x
From levels 1 - 4, x = 1 and from levels 5 - 9, x = 2.

The amount of exp you need to be the level L is then as follows:


Level Total Exp Exp needed to
Required complete level
-----------------------------------------------------------------
1 1 1
2 2 1
3 3 1
4 4 1
5 10 6 <--- Hell Level
6 12 2
7 14 2
8 16 2
9 18 2


Regards,
Mg

[Lyrith]

Both Nef and Kry did 59 in 1 day. Just got to pray to do the chardok gods.

I did 54 and 59 1 day each. Chardok is the way to go, if you can get into the group.

[Atmas]

What was the point of this thread again? On live they definitely existed, their existence was even confirmed by the development team at one point. I believe it was something to the effect of a badly written equation that was supposed to create a gradual increase in XP needed to level but produced those "hell levels" with drastic spikes. They decided to just keep them. Also they are definitely here.

On both classic live and here the changes in xp necessary for leveling are very noticeable when death occurs on the following level. Losing 10% of the xp for the previous level is much more detrimental to your xp bar when you die in a 36, 41, etc..

[Zoolander]

I believe that hell levels are a myth and I have a solid supporting theory.
Do you believe in Hell levels?
Why do you believe in hell levels?
Is there hard evidence that a or multiple hell levels exist?

Comment below and let me know if you believe in hell levels and why.

Thank you. :cool:

ill lift the myth for you. look closely at the numbers between lvl 40 and lvl 41

http://i58.tinypic.com/208iout.jpg

[skyseyes]

You guys got to read the entire thread before posting anymore lol is there some way I can like deem this case to be resolved? Because at this point I am either getting flammed and trolled or having the facts reiterated to me.

I do appreciate those who actually seek to enlighten. :D