It's funny how the times have changed...

[Trelaboon]

And MMO's with them....

I remember when EQ came out, I was completely awestruck by the great men and women of Norrath who had achieved the highest of quality in character development.

I specifically remember a handful of characters who I was so deeply fascinated by, that I felt we were divided the way the President and I might be divided if ever we were to meet. I would see these people day in and day out, and imagine what kind of spectacular lives they must lead outside of Norrath, for surely someone so great as they must have a truly magnificent livelihood outside of the game. I wouldn't even send them a tell, because the uber/non-uber segregation had taken its natural course.

As I grew older, I began to realize, that the players who were the absolute best inside a video game, had to almost be the complete opposite outside of the land of EverQuest. Traits that often included: unemployed, disabled, retired, rejected, anti-social or in many cases; a criminal in house arrest. Those were often the greats of our time....the ones who first saw Nagafen lay belly up, who ran around in golden shoes, while the rest of us paraded our cloth along the uneven cobblestone floors of Qeynos city.

I realize this was not 100% accurate in all cases, but it was definitely the most common denominator among the elite. I was thinking the other day about modern MMO's and how being unemployed is no longer what gets you on top of the fantasy food chain. In the current state of online gaming, the most powerful of all players, are often the ones who can spend thousands of real dollars on in-game, pay-to-play perks. While being a hermit certainly offers you the same potential advantages, there are no longer quite such large divides in the player base of modern games.

In its own way, it makes me sad. Something about giving up real life time and social activities in order to become the best, is something that I wish had not yet gone away.

My father always told me nothing was free, and that doesn't change with the name Free-to-play. There are always costs to success, but real life money should never have become one of them. This sad state of affairs, is one of the many reasons I no longer play Modern MMO's, and why I'm so captivated by P1999.


Thank you to all of the developers that give up *their* free time in order for us to walk into a living, breathing time-machine. I'm genuinely grateful for the last 4+ years I've had on this server, and hope to get at least 4 more.

<3

[Trelaboon]

Why? Lol

[Roth]

I get you but it's not really like that yet. You forget that wow still exists and has a lot of subs and is not pay to win yet(as far as I know).

[HeallunRumblebelly]

>Log in to kill mob in about 30 seconds

>Have no life.

[Roth]

I felt eq was more about persistence. How much could you put up with before you just quit. Wow and some other games were more the no-life phase because they didn't actively try to make you quit. wow was an easy game to play for years because nothing ever happened really that made you feel like "wow I give up". Eq does that to me every day. When I die and respawn zones away and losing a few hours of exp it makes me want to just not play anymore at all. But then I remember there is nothing else like eq so I calm down and try again the next day or in a few hours.

I would have liked an mmo that captured the essense of eq while cutting down the brutality of the game. A lot of times when I play everquest the game tries really hard to make me quit. And my 12 year old self did end up quitting because I didn't have the ability to deal with all the crap the game threw at me at that age. Now that I'm older I'm better able to deal with the challenges in the game but at times I still make mistakes and feel crushed.

[Vidar]

I get you but it's not really like that yet. You forget that wow still exists and has a lot of subs and is not pay to win yet(as far as I know).

You can buy accounts so money can get you what you want.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I felt eq was more about persistence. How much could you put up with before you just quit. Wow and some other games were more the no-life phase because they didn't actively try to make you quit. wow was an easy game to play for years because nothing ever happened really that made you feel like "wow I give up". Eq does that to me every day. When I die and respawn zones away and losing a few hours of exp it makes me want to just not play anymore at all. But then I remember there is nothing else like eq so I calm down and try again the next day or in a few hours.

I would have liked an mmo that captured the essense of eq while cutting down the brutality of the game. A lot of times when I play everquest the game tries really hard to make me quit. And my 12 year old self did end up quitting because I didn't have the ability to deal with all the crap the game threw at me at that age. Now that I'm older I'm better able to deal with the challenges in the game but at times I still make mistakes and feel crushed.

If you die and respawn zones away you were unprepared. Most people on p99 are still just fucking terrible, really. Even leveling pre kunark, it was rare to die if you leveled with the right people and took the right precautions. And our kill ability by kunark standards was just terrible.

[Roth]

If you die and respawn zones away you were unprepared. Most people on p99 are still just fucking terrible, really. Even leveling pre kunark, it was rare to die if you leveled with the right people and took the right precautions. And our kill ability by kunark standards was just terrible.

Right, it's human nature to make mistakes. Sorry to inform you that people aren't perfect. I was hunting in lower guk live side entrance, where I had never happened to solo before as a level 36 iksar shaman ever before. So guess what? I have to learn the respawn times and the pulls. I have to learn how my own strength stacks up against the mobs. And sometimes if things aren't as they should be I will take a risk and die for it because I am not risk adverse enough. There is also rng in the game so sometimes things don't always go as you expect.

If you always play 100% perfect with no emotion, and play as risk adverse as possible of course you will make it and it will be fine. But usually people will die at some point along the way to their own mistake or someone else's mistake.

I'll also add that a large portion of playing "perfect" in this game is being 100% focused and aware of what's going on. Having the spawn timers of every mob, paying attention for trains, paying attention to all of these things... never dying involves putting a lot of focus on multiple factors. You can also dc midfight and that's game over. So sometimes things happen and you die.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Right, it's human nature to make mistakes. Sorry to inform you that people aren't perfect. I was hunting in lower guk live side entrance, where I had never happened to solo before as a level 36 iksar shaman ever before. So guess what? I have to learn the respawn times and the pulls. I have to learn how my own strength stacks up against the mobs. And sometimes if things aren't as they should be I will take a risk and die for it because I am not risk adverse enough. There is also rng in the game so sometimes things don't always go as you expect.

If you always play 100% perfect with no emotion, and play as risk adverse as possible of course you will make it and it will be fine. But usually people will die at some point along the way to their own mistake or someone else's mistake.

I'll also add that a large portion of playing "perfect" in this game is being 100% focused and aware of what's going on. Having the spawn timers of every mob, paying attention for trains, paying attention to all of these things... never dying involves putting a lot of focus on multiple factors. You can also dc midfight and that's game over. So sometimes things happen and you die.

Right, but why not be bound in innothule. You have no training to do 36+ on shaman except maybe alchemy? Which is generally a 60 man's game given the cost.

[Rararboker]

Formula to stop dying.

Buy a WC cap + right click it before dying = success.

[Clark]

try livejournal.com

lol

[Aeaolena]

try livejournal.com

Was this comment really necessary?

http://i.imgur.com/a58haOW.jpg

[fadetree]

And MMO's with them....

I remember when EQ came out, I was completely awestruck by the great men and women of Norrath who had achieved the highest of quality in character development.

I specifically remember a handful of characters who I was so deeply fascinated by, that I felt we were divided the way the President and I might be divided if ever we were to meet. I would see these people day in and day out, and imagine what kind of spectacular lives they must lead outside of Norrath, for surely someone so great as they must have a truly magnificent livelihood outside of the game. I wouldn't even send them a tell, because the uber/non-uber segregation had taken its natural course.

As I grew older, I began to realize, that the players who were the absolute best inside a video game, had to almost be the complete opposite outside of the land of EverQuest. Traits that often included: unemployed, disabled, retired, rejected, anti-social or in many cases; a criminal in house arrest. Those were often the greats of our time....the ones who first saw Nagafen lay belly up, who ran around in golden shoes, while the rest of us paraded our cloth along the uneven cobblestone floors of Qeynos city.

I realize this was not 100% accurate in all cases, but it was definitely the most common denominator among the elite. I was thinking the other day about modern MMO's and how being unemployed is no longer what gets you on top of the fantasy food chain. In the current state of online gaming, the most powerful of all players, are often the ones who can spend thousands of real dollars on in-game, pay-to-play perks. While being a hermit certainly offers you the same potential advantages, there are no longer quite such large divides in the player base of modern games.

In its own way, it makes me sad. Something about giving up real life time and social activities in order to become the best, is something that I wish had not yet gone away.

My father always told me nothing was free, and that doesn't change with the name Free-to-play. There are always costs to success, but real life money should never have become one of them. This sad state of affairs, is one of the many reasons I no longer play Modern MMO's, and why I'm so captivated by P1999.


Thank you to all of the developers that give up *their* free time in order for us to walk into a living, breathing time-machine. I'm genuinely grateful for the last 4+ years I've had on this server, and hope to get at least 4 more.

<3

I don't know what makes you say that early ubers were all some kinds of lamers/no lifers. I knew quite a few on Fennin in the early days that were RL professionals and/or really great people. Is this just your impression or do you have anything to back that claim up with? Also, to include 'disabled' with the other derogatory terms you used kind of sucks in my book. I assume you didn't mean it that way, but you should be more careful with your language.

[Duckwalk]

All of the people "ub3r" people I knew through PoP we're young proffessional types many working in IT, programming, computer related fields not criminals as you suggest.

Actually you're description is more appropriate for P1999 as it takes a special kind of person to cockblock content for 3 plus years in an attempt to "dominate" a free emulator version of a 15 year old game..

[Fett]

Also, to include 'disabled' with the other derogatory terms you used kind of sucks in my book. I assume you didn't mean it that way, but you should be more careful with your language.

Is there a more PC word than disabled? What should he have called them, wheel chair jockeys?

[koros]

Your post is filled with platitudes, superlatives, and unnecessary "anecdotes". As far as poorly written, tangential soapboxes go, I give it 2/10.

[Ugrask]

Was this comment really necessary?

Not sure someone claiming anyone who managed to do end game content fifteen years ago was some kind of pathetic degenerate deserves defending.

[skipdog]

You say all MMOs are pay to win, yet to me(and according to subscription numbers), it's actually the worst and least popular MMOs that are pay to win.

WoW is not pay-to-win. Want to be the BEST at WoW? You gotta be an amazing player willing to play perfectly on a consistent basis and yes, dedicate a huge chunk of your free time to play almost every day.

What really confuses me about this post, is that you act like RMT doesn't exist on this server. Heck, you can buy more advantages on THIS SERVER with real money than you can on WoW or most MMOs. You can buy your entire fleet of epic'd 60s and enough plat to deck them all out. No reason to pretend like it isn't an option for some.

[Aeaolena]

Not sure someone claiming anyone who managed to do end game content fifteen years ago was some kind of pathetic degenerate deserves defending.

Meh, the original post seems harmless enough to me. Lots rambling followed by thanking of server staff. Please understand, my dissent is not with the accuracy of the 'livejournal.com' comment, but the appropriateness of it in this specific subsection of the P1999 forum.

It just seems like these days the second someone posts in this discussion forum they are met with a quick jab to the ribs followed by expected cheers from the audience.

The server staff have asked time and time again to keep jabs in RnF where they belong.

My exasperation was not meant to paint Mr. Chewie as the poster child for trolls - he certainly isn't the only one who has fallen in with the current trend on Server Chat.

It seems I am not immune either, actually - and thus I have updated my graphic
http://i.imgur.com/a58haOW.jpg

In hindsight, it was too peppery :)
http://img2.timeinc.net/health/images/slides/peppermint-candy-gerd-400x400.jpg

[Bill Tetley]

I knew a few of these "early ubars" in real life. They were in 11th grade with me and slept through classes, left school early unannounced and nearly didn't graduate. They did have some awesome pixels and they gave me free stuff so it's cool

[Ugrask]

Oh I agree with your original statement(And further explained sentiment). Just the topic at hand wasn't placed in the right area due to the way it was written and the responses it would invoke.

Can't have derogatory comments and rambling in server chat and not have people jump all over it...it is the internet after all.

[Faerie]

The person who got me into EQ was an uber, and he was one of those annoyingly successful people. Straight As in high school while working, playing sports and doing tons of volunteer work while managing to have a great social life. I never understood how he did it, but somehow he spent his time very well in EQ and in all things. Very goal oriented and whatever.

[fadetree]

Is there a more PC word than disabled? What should he have called them, wheel chair jockeys?

You miss my point, which is that you included them in a list with criminals, low lifes, etc. Also you never answered my question: I was wondering what makes you say this when I have had kind of a different experience. I don't really care if you don't want to elaborate, I was just curious what you based it on.

[Roth]

As I grew older, I began to realize, that the players who were the absolute best inside a video game, had to almost be the complete opposite outside of the land of EverQuest. Traits that often included: unemployed, disabled, retired, rejected, anti-social or in many cases; a criminal in house arrest. Those were often the greats of our time....the ones who first saw Nagafen lay belly up, who ran around in golden shoes, while the rest of us paraded our cloth along the uneven cobblestone floors of Qeynos city.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYF7H_fpc-g&feature=kp

[Cecily]

OP is RnF to begin with. Hey while you're at, bash on some poor people too. Cause P99 is free, y'know?

[Cyrano]

There's plenty of successful people who play MMOs. They just know how to manage their time and be efficient in their opportunities.

[Arterian]

I think we all remember the players that were 38 after 5 years. They ran around in bushes and tried to climb trees in WK. They were the true ubers.

[Tankdan]

There's plenty of successful people who play MMOs. They just know how to manage their time and be efficient in their opportunities.

Define plenty.

I know of plenty of people that dropped out of high school/college and are millionaires. Doesnt tell you jack all.

[Cyrano]

Define plenty.

I know of plenty of people that dropped out of high school/college and are millionaires. Doesnt tell you jack all.

Well in my guild alone we have two dental students (myself being one), a medical student (think he just got licensed), lawyers, CPAs, investment bankers, day traders, a couple guys that own their own business, a PhD, etc. Most of us in this capacity are married or in longterm relationships.

I don't think this is anything unique to my guild; I think every larger guild will have people who are successful by typical American standards.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Not sure if the Cyrano above me is real cyrano or zombie cyrano, but for TMO, there's tons of people doing super well. I'm not one of them :3 But for the most part it's surprising. That said, most people also don't play the hours I do--most just answer batphones when they can :p

[Akuma]

Nice post OP....:p

[phacemeltar]

try livejournal.com

i peed

[Akuma]

i peed

i dribbled

[bktroost]

Everything said after OP

Welcome to the Jungle, we've got trolls and flames.

[Clark]

OP is RnF to begin with. Hey while you're at, bash on some poor people too. Cause P99 is free, y'know?

[feste]

I think we all remember the players that were 38 after 5 years. They ran around in bushes and tried to climb trees in WK. They were the true ubers.

truth lol

[Toehammer]

The person who got me into EQ was an uber, and he was one of those annoyingly successful people. Straight As in high school while working, playing sports and doing tons of volunteer work while managing to have a great social life. I never understood how he did it, but somehow he spent his time very well in EQ and in all things. Very goal oriented and whatever.

That's the key, focused on goals! A lot of it has to do with maturity and the realization that while it is fun to waste time, it is better to waste time after you have accomplished something.

Also, it is very tough to maintain a high level of success at everything for many years. You see it a lot in high school and college because, well, those times are actually quite easy compared to later life, and also there are lots of avenues to excel in and be perceived as successful. Once people actually grow up, it becomes much more time-consuming to excel at many things.

I remember in high school and college having so much free time, even after school/sports/work and now (kids, family, demanding job) I don't have as much time for things like sports/video games. I am lucky if I can squeeze in 3 hours of video games and 5 hours of sports per week. Sometimes I miss those times (grad school was a good example) where I was doing really well in school/research, training (judo/grappling/weight lifting/soccer) 12 hours a week, and could squeeze in 2 nights going out per week. But in the grand scheme of things, it is always good to switch up your goals and change focus every 3-5 years on the big things in life, or else an active mind starts to become stale.

[Shiftin]

Well in my guild alone we have two dental students (myself being one), a medical student (think he just got licensed), lawyers, CPAs, investment bankers, day traders, a couple guys that own their own business, a PhD, etc. Most of us in this capacity are married or in longterm relationships.

I don't think this is anything unique to my guild; I think every larger guild will have people who are successful by typical American standards.

Not sure if the Cyrano above me is real cyrano or zombie cyrano, but for TMO, there's tons of people doing super well. I'm not one of them :3 But for the most part it's surprising. That said, most people also don't play the hours I do--most just answer batphones when they can :p

It's the real (old) Cyrano. Still protecting that sunder.

I agree that there's a very poor correlation between being a worthless person and successful in game. I'd argue that, at least among the people I associate most with, it's quite the opposite. In 1999 I was a soph/jr in high school. I managed to lead raids on Tunare while playing football, acting in plays and being a national merit scholar. I used my time in a focused and directed way when I could because i'm extremely type-A, did research and prepared before jumping into things.

A person who is not type-A in real life can easily succeed* in this game by brute forcing it with time. However, it's very hard for someone with my personality to log in and do nothing, level alts for fun, wander around and complete unnecessary quests, etc. It's not how my brain works, and for many of my guildmates, the case is the same.

*I think we need to be very clear here that I'm purposefully defining success in a way that aligns with OPs 1999 view of game success for this analogy. I fully acknowledge and support that this is a game, and everyone plays for their own reasons. Thus, everyone defines success in their own way. To some people, logging in and escaping real life for 2 hours to chat with friends in EC is success. To others, it may be tradeskills, how many new players they helped, how many alts they have, how many mobs they can swam kite, or ANY personal measure of success or fun. I think that is actually what made everquest so incredibly successful in the first place - it was the first huge virtual world with so many possibilities and ways for people to make it their own.

[koros]

Worked investment banking for a year. You have no time for real EQing unless work + eq are the only things you do. Maybe if they're a director+ but otherwise...

[Cyrano]

Worked investment banking for a year. You have no time for real EQing unless work + eq are the only things you do. Maybe if they're a director+ but otherwise...

I was walking around a trading floor after hours a few years back and saw people with Xbox's on their desk and WoW boxes. These games can be played passively, control is the key. Also, recognizing opportunity and risk vs reward goes a long way too.

[Toodles]

I don't know what makes you say that early ubers were all some kinds of lamers/no lifers. I knew quite a few on Fennin in the early days that were RL professionals and/or really great people. Is this just your impression or do you have anything to back that claim up with? Also, to include 'disabled' with the other derogatory terms you used kind of sucks in my book. I assume you didn't mean it that way, but you should be more careful with your language.

FoH, is your answer.

[Nisei]

The person who got me into EQ was an uber, and he was one of those annoyingly successful people. Straight As in high school while working, playing sports and doing tons of volunteer work while managing to have a great social life. I never understood how he did it, but somehow he spent his time very well in EQ and in all things. Very goal oriented and whatever.

Jelly

[JPMorgan]

I've only met one FoH member in real life. The guy was pretty successful for his age at the time: he had his own house and a really well paying job.

However, he was always by the most socially awkward individual at any event that I ever encountered him. I wouldn't say he was necessarily a degenerate, although he did once make an undead priest named Lynched because "he was black in his past life."

[Briscoe]

I remember when EQ came out, I was completely awestruck by the great men and women of Norrath who had achieved the highest of quality in character development.


Judging from some of the responses in this thread, it looks like there is plenty of this awe still to go around (whether it is folks in awe of others, or of themselves).

Also,

...those times (grad school was a good example) where I was doing really well in school/research, training (judo/grappling/weight lifting/soccer) 12 hours a week, and could squeeze in 2 nights going out per week.

What the hell were you doing in grad school? I'm jelly of your experience. By the time I got out of grad school, I had about 50 extra pounds I had to burn off.

[Toehammer]

Also,



What the hell were you doing in grad school? I'm jelly of your experience. By the time I got out of grad school, I had about 50 extra pounds I had to burn off.

I had a very regimented life and was extremely focused, that's it. I was getting a PhD in physics, and had a crazy advisor (Korean guy) so I had to learn to optimize my time really well. I would wake up at 8AM, eat oatmeal with nuts/raisins, wheaties type cereal with a banana. Get to the lab around 8:45-9 and go very hard with experiments (no email/reading/whatever) until 12-12:30. Eat lunch 1. Work until 4-5. Eat lunch 2. Work until 7, and then sprint out of the lab before my boss could hold me up. At 7:30 (or 8, depending on the day) I would get to Judo, train for 2-2.5 hours. Go home, eat dinner, make lunch for next day and go to bed... rinse/repeat Mon, Tue, and Thu. Lunchtime or evenings, on Fri or Sat, Sundays, and usually Wednesday, I would lift weights hard with 2 other physics grad students for 1-2 hours, usually try to go hard for 1.25 hours only doing functional lifting, no bodybuilding crap. In the fall/spring would play intramural soccer, so I would do 1 less day of weightlifting. Usually either Friday or Saturday I would go out with friends, and once I got a girlfriend (now wife) would go out with her on Wednesdays after judo, and Fri/Sat.

I would try to maximize efficiency in the lab, although it was not easy. I would get behind from time to time, but if I lightened up on my physical/eating/sleeping routine, that was the worst solution. Certain things prevented me from keeping a regimented schedule from time to time, like qualifying exams (if you don't pass with flying colors you get the boot) which I had to study for like 5 hours a day for 5-6 months.

I tried to really rest my brain on Saturdays/Sunday... but that was not always possible... sometimes I had to play catch up on the weekend in the lab. But if I couldn't rest, my brain would just be sapped for the next whole week and I would struggle. I tried as much as possible to make the weekend just about sleeping, eating, and maybe just lying in the grass for 2-3 hours, or sitting on a bench outside, letting the stress dissipate.

However, being extremely focused with little wiggle room really helped me out. I was a machine for a few years... a good example is that I didn't eat any sugar (besides fruit) for like 2-3 years. Then one day I had a piece of cake at a birthday party, and I had to go home and sleep for like 12 hours lol. I ate really clean the whole time... probably only had 2 beers a week or less, and just pushed the pace.

The funny thing though, is that it was one of the happiest times of my life... I felt satisfied in everything I was doing. While the pace was high, I rarely noticed how busy I was because I really loved everything I was putting valuable time into (although weightlifting gets boring, besides deadlifts!). Now, with a kid/married/both of us working... I have less time to focus on me... however I do some squats/lunges with my daughter on my back while we play at the playground. More fun now :)

[fadetree]

FoH, is your answer.

And we know FoH were all degenerate neckbeard basement dwellers how?

[Ugrask]

And we know FoH were all degenerate neckbeard basement dwellers how?

I lived with one of their WoW ilk for a few years. Can verify Neckbeard basement dweller.

Had zero social ability, would often stare full on at my GF's chest, walk in on sex no knocking. Not clean up his messes in kitchen, barely ever worked. Proper grooming/laundry were not high priority.

Now this isn't all of them, or their EQ ones...but this guy was a major raider in EQ and EQ2 prior to WoW...sooooo.

[Danth]

I take the "You see me putting in 70 hours a week in EQ but I'm still super successful outside game and dating a supermodel too!" crowd with a grain of salt. A few of them may be on the level but most aren't. This may be a shock to some, but people have been known to lie on the internet.

Folks riding the coattails of the high-hours players can achieve "success" in EQ with mild time investment (a few hours an evening) but it comes with its own costs--ie, largely relegating oneself to being a pawn in someone else's game.

Danth

[thefloydian]

Man the lifeboats!

[myxomatosii]

I think we all remember the players that were 38 after 5 years. They ran around in bushes and tried to climb trees in WK. They were the true ubers.

Hahaha