2HS vs dual wield

[Pinolian]

When is it better to go with duel wield vs 2 handed as a warrior? I thought I read that duel wield at lower level levels (prior to 30) is not as much damage as duel wielding because of there being such a slim double attack chance on the off hand

And this piggy backs on the answer..
Do you have to use dual wield to generate more hate for tanking?

Thanks in advance

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

When is it better to go with duel wield vs 2 handed as a warrior? I thought I read that duel wield at lower level levels (prior to 30) is not as much damage as duel wielding because of there being such a slim double attack chance on the off hand

And this piggy backs on the answer..
Do you have to use dual wield to generate more hate for tanking?

Thanks in advance

There is a damage bonus applied sometime after the release of Velious which will put 2h on par with 1h in terms of raw output. Staff of battle has one of the best DPS ratings of warrior 2h weps and so in terms of agro generation via melee damage, this comes out on top. At around 37 high agro 1h weps begin to proc drastically levelling the playing field on terms of agro but not necessarily in damage.

I believe the overall best combo (blended: DPS and agro) with the current mechanics would be:

1-20: 1h fast and no more than 14 DMG (10 damage if under 10). Melee best primary agro.
20-37: 2h but only if you possess a decent one (staff of battle). Melee best primary agro.
37-50: 1h is on par with 2h and is likely better by 50. Also 1h has more options in terms of procable weps. Proc best primary agro.

It's all really subjective and really depends on the scenario.

Flame on warriors!!

[williestargell]

It's not just about dps. If you're not the warrior MT'ing then you shouldn't be getting unwanted agro and should put away your agro procs. In that case 2H becomes very attractive.

[Pinolian]

Thanks for the replies.

I understand those mechanics. If I am not the MT, I don't want attention. I played a ranger in a former life, so aggro management is built in.

[baalzy]

Kunark also brought a change to the damage bonus for 2h weapons which helped to catch them up with 1handers.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1327888&postcount=21

This is how it was before the changes, using ranger weapons.

Warriors don't get easy access to as good of a weapon as the Woodsman Staff (.89 ratio). Staff of Battle is the best 2hander easily available (.84 ratio) but warriors do get access to better 1handers for less (fist of zek is .53 and a great offhander if you're not tanking or if you can spare the agility to not drop below 75). Sebilite Croaking Dirk is a fantastic main hander (.56 ratio) for DPS'ing with while dual wielding.

Damage bonus' currently follow this rule for 2handers so it also increases their viability.

else if (RuleI(Combat,TwoHandedDmgBonus) == 2)
{
if (Weapon->Delay <= 27)
return (GetLevel() - 22) / 3; // Just 1h bonus + 1.

int32 base;
if (GetLevel() > 50)
base = ((GetLevel() - 7) / 3);
else
base = ((GetLevel() - 25) / 2);

if (Weapon->Delay <= 39)
return base;
else if (Weapon->Delay <= 42)
return base + 1;
else if (Weapon->Delay <= 44)
return base + 3;
else
return base + (Weapon->Delay - 31)/3;


I'll use SBC + FOZ vs SOB @ lvl 60
http://wiki.project1999.com/Fist_of_Zek
http://wiki.project1999.com/Sebilite_Croaking_Dirk
SBC = 10/18 + 11point dmg bonus
FOZ = 16/30 (no bonus applies to the offhand)

SOB = 31/37 + 17 point dmg bonus

in 60 seconds the SBC will swing 33 times
The SOB will swing 16 times

Going to ignore the FOZ for now.

max damage (not counting Str which can push it up I believe) is weapon dmg * 2 + damage bonus
Damage potential (all hits for max dmg, no misses) is:
20*33 + 33*11 = 1023 for the SBC

16*62 + 16*17 = 1264 for the SOB

As you can see, the FOZ at level 60 only needs to do 241 additional damage to surpass the SOB.

The FOZ can swing up to 20 times (if every round procs dual-wield)
Putting its damage potential at 32*20 = 640

Total max dual wield damage = 1663 (realistically about 1535 cause dual-wield isnt 100%)
As long as dual wield is firing 60% (which I think it fires like 80% of the time at skillcap) of the time this dual-wield combo is better DPS then the Staff of Battle.

Probably 50+ you won't notice a difference damage wise between the two setups but as you get higher and higher the dual wield combo will pull away.

To answer your question about aggro. Aggro generation is basically the maximum potential damage of your swings (whether or not you hit), so these 'max damage calculations' correlate directly to how well a weapon combo would hold aggro. As you can see, over the course of a whole minute a warrior is only generating 1400-1500ish aggro using a powerful damage combo while dual wielding and even less when using the SoB. A single proc of Yak, Snare, Stun ect... will add 500+ aggro and will proc 2-4 times per minute per hand depending on dex. Which is why proc'ing weapons are so important 37+ when the ratio on ones that do good procs starts to get better.

[Pinolian]

Awesome post, thank you. I understand a lot better. Love the code; you are talking my language! =)

Can you help me understand the difference between a lets say a 14/28 1HS vs a 9/18 1hb?

Same ratio, but is the 9/18 better just because its faster? Is there a level where the results would change and it would be more desirable to switch?

[baalzy]

It's because the damage bonus is a static amount of damage added to each attack. The bonus for 1handers is the same regardless of delay.

So that extra 11 damage that gets added to each attack occurs much more often with the 9/18 than it does with the 14/28.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

My post was so limp dick

[OneKillQuota]

I always liked 2H tanking all the way up to PoTime mostly because part of being a tank is holding aggro, but also finding ways to mitigate damage. I like 2H tanking because you end up taking less riposte overall. It's not that give of a deal right now, but once Velious comes out...it'll help. Again, the priority is holding aggro, if you can hold it with a 2H, then you'll also mitigate damage.