Offhand Choice

[Misfitz138]

Green Jade Axe or Blade of the Green Dragon Eye. Discuss.

[Sheriff]

Higher the damage the better.

[Cecily]

Higher the damage the better.

http://i.imgur.com/VpBeZkj.gif

[Cecily]

This is assuming we're talking about rogues. You didn't specify class.

Divide damage by delay. The higher ratio wins for offhand. There's nothing else to consider when picking out a rogue offhand, unless the weapon ratios are very similar. In that case you just pick the delay you prefer.

17/34 = .5
13/24 = .541

That might not seem like a big difference, but the best Kunark rogue offhand has a .615 ratio. The blade is significantly better.

[Calabee]

i like highest hits for duelist disc personally seeing mobs die so fast it's not a speed fight atm

[Waedawen]

Delay doesn't mean shit in the offhand.

Green Jade Axe BiS forever.

[Gafador]

So Green Jade Axe > Edge of the Nightwalker?

[Cecily]

If you like doing sub par damage, yes. Main hand delay is independent of off hand delay. Delay does matter. Unless you're on red. Then damage > all for jousting.

[Waedawen]

Dual Weild has to a check on main hand swings.

[Cecily]

Nope.

[Thulack]

Dual Weild has to a check on main hand swings.

From wiki:

Dual wield affects the chance for an equipped offhand weapon to swing. Whenever the delay requirement for the offhand weapon is met, a check is made versus your dual wield skill to see if the offhand weapon will successfully swing.

[mnemonikos82]

^^^^^^^^
This

Proc matter though. A offhand weapon with a slightly worse ratio with a good proc is better than an offhand weapon with a slightly better ratio.

[Supaskillz]

Procs matter in that they draw aggro. Let's not advocate proc weapons for rogue offhands.

[falkun]

This isn't Live. You don't want to be proccing anything as a rogue (in Kunark). Come Velious, the only proc rogues will want is Avatar from Primals.

[Cecily]

Proc matter though. A offhand weapon with a slightly worse ratio with a good proc is better than an offhand weapon with a slightly better ratio.

Sorta. 9 times out of 10, maybe more, you'll want no procs and highest ratio. In certain situations tash, slow, or snare might be called for. Snare being the absolute most important and most common of these. Slow and tash will almost never be required of a rogue.

Procs matter in that they draw aggro. Let's not advocate proc weapons for rogue offhands.

You know as well as I do that rogues, provided someone else has aggro, can shed any amount of aggro with a successful evade. Yes, you risk generating massive threat. Does the situation call for it?


This isn't Live. You don't want to be proccing anything as a rogue (in Kunark). Come Velious, the only proc rogues will want is Avatar from Primals.

That's not true :)

[baalzy]

Keep in mind, pure DD procs only give 1 hate per point of damage. It's procs with negative effects that generate massive amounts of hate.

Example:
http://wiki.project1999.com/Inferno_Shock

The proc on this will cause approx 230-250 hate every time it goes.

Compared to:
http://wiki.project1999.com/Sword_of_the_Shissar
The proc produces something like 780 hate each time.

230-250 is not super super huge unless you get lucky and proc multiple times in a row and are dual wielding pure DD procs. However if you're evading correctly it shouldn't cause you to spike above the warrior and if you're smart you'd turn auto attack off until you get a successful evade.

[Cecily]

Exactly. No one is gonna turn down a MHT because *gasp* it procs 182 points of fire damage. Just as it stands in Kunark, there's no DD proccers worth using. Excluding Blood Points maybe... I don't like the junk ratio on them.

[Malone88]

230-250 is not super super huge unless you get lucky and proc multiple times in a row and are dual wielding pure DD procs. However if you're evading correctly it shouldn't cause you to spike above the warrior and if you're smart you'd turn auto attack off until you get a successful evade.
Having to evade even once during at fight seems to blow a big hole in your DPS for that fight. Would rather keep evades to a minimum, myself.

Anyone notice that BS seems to refresh a lot faster or is it just me?

[Ele]

Having to evade even once during at fight seems to blow a big hole in your DPS for that fight. Would rather keep evades to a minimum, myself.

Evading should take less than half a second, what are you doing?

[Freakish]

You should constantly be evading. If you're in an exp group? Its less damage for the cleric to heal when you pull it and it turns. If you're on a raid? Good job on turning that enraging dragon, the melee dps died and he just gated. The dps loss of turning off attack, hitting hide and attack again is minimal.
You look stupid when you tank monsters as a rogue.

[Malone88]

Evading should take less than half a second, what are you doing?
Typically, I stop and restart attack. Takes a little more than half a second and then it's not always successful...

Maybe I am doing something wrong...

[Malone88]

You should constantly be evading. If you're in an exp group? Its less damage for the cleric to heal when you pull it and it turns. If you're on a raid? Good job on turning that enraging dragon, the melee dps died and he just gated. The dps loss of turning off attack, hitting hide and attack again is minimal.
You look stupid when you tank monsters as a rogue.
Kinda depends on the tank don't you think? I can get through many fights without having to use Evade at all in a exp group. Why should I blow my DPS and evade constantly? A good chunk of damage can be done between stop attack, evade, start attack don't you think? And to do that 2 or 3 times a fight?

[Cecily]

Meh. It's situational. The concern isn't so much whether or not you lose damage, it's whether or not you want aggro.
There's times that you do want to keep yourself higher up on the aggro list, and there's times you absolutely don't.

Evade mashing isn't absolutely required, excluding raids. Don't evade your evade key all together though.
It will barely touch your damage, if at all.

[baalzy]

The real answer would be to keep track of how many times you've proc'd vs how many times your tank has proc'd. Evade accordingly. In Velious it will definitely be much more important to make sure you never take aggro (since you will stand a very good chance of being 1rounded) then it is to lose out on .05% of your DPS in a parse.

[Sheriff]

So based off of long discussion, what are the best off hand weapons for red and blue?

[Cecily]

Smoldering Cudgel and RSSS, respectively.

[Freakish]

Smoldering Cudgel is .52 ratio. Razor Fang of Xygoz is better.

Outside of VP: Edge of the Nightwalker / Sebilite Croaking Dirk / Jagged Blade of Mourning are all very good.

[Cecily]

It's a terrible ratio, but 18 dmg for jousting would be great.