Emergent Gameplay: Is there any left in P99?

[Morningbreath]

I watched some videos on EQNext and had to laugh when the developers talked about how great emergent gameplay is. Here I am playing a server where DOT damage is nerfed because the original Everquest developers jumped in and nerfed emergent gameplay at every turn.

On Live I played a wizard class that had been nerfed to oblivion because nuking is so OP but bards swarm kiting half a zone's worth of mobs? Eh, no biggie.

On P99 the spell aggro is so high that casting snare and a couple nukes can COMPELTELY negate the need for a healer in outdoor zones. From level 29 on, a warrior/wizard combo is completely viable thanks to the spell aggro. It's simple, and very effiicient.

Apart from newbie rogues wielding epics, what other emergent gameplay have you uncovered on P99?

[Tecmos Deception]

If by emergent gameplay you mean what wikipedia says it means (yeah, I wikipedia'd it), which is basically "complex situations in games that arise from interaction of multiple, simple mechanics" ... then newbie rogues wielding epics probably isn't really emergent gameplay... but basically a shitload of other stuff is:

chardok ae groups are a complex situation that is made possible by simple things such as DA spell, feign/gate, chardok having a faction, PBAE spells having no level limit, etc.

bard PL (even with new low-hp changes) again, relies on simple things like unlimited number of targets for PBAE and the huge aggro on snares compared to the damage done by a lower-level PLee

every difficult solo kill on the server results from a bunch of simple things... like a charm, or a slow, or a torpor, or a number of different basic clickies, etc.


That definition on wikipedia is pretty dumb though. Almost everything on p99 is "emergent gameplay" in that it is the result of the interaction of simple things like snare+fear or warrior+ch or tank+rogue or dungeon group+enchanter or whatever. This is also what makes classic EQ so amazing compared to modern shit bruteforce encounters. Classes in modern wow don't interact with each other hardly at all, they just do their individual things while dodging their own circles of fire on the ground. EQ classes do their own thing, but what that thing is varies widely (for most classes) depending on how big your group is and what other classes are with you.

[Swish]

chardok ae groups are a complex situation that is made possible by simple things such as DA spell, feign/gate, chardok having a faction, PBAE spells having no level limit, etc.

Just don't screw up or there'll be some intense nerd rage :D

[HalflingWarrior]

Just don't screw up or there'll be some intense nerd rage :D

Lol. They fuck up a pull and wipe and say "ok weve decided that pull counts now pay up." Yea. Ok guy. Im guessing his petition went nowhere

[Swish]

Plat hoarding knows no bounds in there. Once upon a time you'd let a monk loot his Chardok pipe... "some" people running the show in there charge the full MQ price for it.

[Tecmos Deception]

If you're gonna throw things crazy off topic because you want to bitch and moan about [economy, twinking, PLing, MQs, take your pick], you should at least supply a fun gif as well.

[loramin]

If you're gonna throw things crazy off topic because you want to bitch and moan about [economy, twinking, PLing, MQs, take your pick], you should at least supply a fun gif as well.

[Skittlez]

If you're gonna throw things crazy off topic because you want to bitch and moan about [economy, twinking, PLing, MQs, take your pick], you should at least supply a fun gif as well.

[Swish]

I remember some great duo/group times in Chardok, would be nice to get those back.

Here's your gif, haters :p

http://i33.tinypic.com/33o30it.gif

[kylok]

supply a fun gif.

[Tecmos Deception]

http://i33.tinypic.com/33o30it.gif

I'm too lazy to find an imagine, so I'll just say "hello pot, meet kettle" instead.

[Swish]

Now y'all encouraging a full derail...sorry OP.

http://i.imgur.com/mt7w2DV.gif

[Swish]

PS Tecmos you used to be cool, what happened? Why the hate? :(

[kylok]

http://i.imgur.com/mt7w2DV.gif

I like this one

[Tecmos Deception]

PS Tecmos you used to be cool, what happened? Why the hate? :(

Lol. I guarantee that if every other tell from you, back when we first met in CoM, had been "just be patient omg velious will come eventually" or complaints about PLing/MQing/NBG/whatever... I would have been hating then too.

[BahamutDF]

Lol. I guarantee that if every other tell from you, back when we first met in CoM, had been "just be patient omg velious will come eventually" or complaints about PLing/MQing/NBG/whatever... I would have been hating then too.

Playing devils advocate: Because it just couldn't be possible that any of those things actually are legitimate issues, right?

I don't tend to side with greedy behavior particularly because I've never been a greedy player in EQ.

I have to tell you, when I first learned that on this server a monk may be denied a chardok pipe for his epic in favor of someone's pocket I was a bit taken aback. Seems very antithetical to what this game is about. But I digress I don't see the point in complaining about something that won't change.

[Tecmos Deception]

This game is about what people MAKE it about. If a group of people who have organized and successfully run a chardok AE group want to greed roll an item, who the fuck is the one monk who needs the drop and is sitting FD at the entrance to be upset that they don't just give it to him?

Besides, if something is a legitimate issue, then it needs to be bug reported or petitioned or something, not used to derail a thread in server chat. Hence my "hating" on Swish in this thread.

[jaybone]

A team takes over another thread.

[BahamutDF]

This game is about what people MAKE it about. If a group of people who have organized and successfully run a chardok AE group want to greed roll an item, who the fuck is the one monk who needs the drop and is sitting FD at the entrance to be upset that they don't just give it to him?

Besides, if something is a legitimate issue, then it needs to be bug reported or petitioned or something, not used to derail a thread in server chat. Hence my "hating" on Swish in this thread.

'fraid you're not going to convince me, friend. Because if it were me, my first thought would be to find a monk that needs it. Every time.

I don't find this cutthroat mantra of loot and plat as appealing as the satisfaction of being in a position to help someone complete a difficult quest. But make no mistake, I don't expect you or anyone to feel the way -I- feel. It'd be nice, but just like in real life not everyone shares your beliefs. Is what it is.

[Tecmos Deception]

A team takes over another thread.

Lol. I'm the only person to post an ontopic reply in this thread, and Swish+Halfling are obviously the ones who derailed things by going off on a tangent about AE group rage and MQs when neither of those were mentioned earlier in the thread.

[Roth]

I think the problem here is no one really knows what emergent gameplay even means lol. I mean in the context of how it is used, I would think without looking up any definitions that it was gameplay arising from scenarios that wasn't foreseen or designed. But who knows.

[Tecmos Deception]

'fraid you're not going to convince me, friend. Because if it were me, my first thought would be to find a monk that needs it. Every time.

I don't need to convince you; you just agreed with my point that is the game is what we make it by stating what YOU would do in the situation. There's no problem that not everyone would do the same thing you would do.

[Swish]

No need to go full tilt and ask me to post fun gifs though, that was the final nail in the coffin :(

[HalflingWarrior]

'fraid you're not going to convince me, friend. Because if it were me, my first thought would be to find a monk that needs it. Every time.


See now this is how the majority of people on my live-classic server thought/played; and that server was tallon zek, pvp teams!!!

Face it....theres a LOT OF RMT going on involving this server, and its the driving force behind the server-greed. Its ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING AND SAD the way some many people on p99 act. Clearly the individuals who always got picked last, who never had a date for a school dance, and who now in their 30s dont even have minimum wage employment.

Youd think 3 years of monopolizing all kunark spawns would be enough; apparently not. Imagine how bad its gonna be when these individuals have full velious raid gear and easily can onegroup trak and vs.

I guarantee the same guilds will still be monopolizing vp, naggy/vox wifh alts, as well as all the epic mini-raid mobs.

WTS thurgadin BP MQ, 750kpp!!!!

[Tecmos Deception]

Talk about being offtopic. Jesus :p

[Fett]

Talk about being offtopic. Jesus :p

Jesus is definitely a little offtopic for this post. Though turning water in to wine, that sounds like some emergent shit going on right there

[jaybone]

Tecmos right in there after a RMT post. hmmmmm

[Hailto]

Going to have to agree that swish's constant anti-velious posts do get annoying.

[Swish]

I hope everyone trying to rush Velious will be on the beta server doing their bit to help :)

[Asap]

Halfling warrior is ruining my immersion

[Raavak]

Trying more with less is always "emergent".

[Hailto]

I hope everyone trying to rush Velious will be on the beta server doing their bit to help :)

It's been like 3 years, why do you have some illusion that its being rushed?

[loramin]

It's been like 3 years, why do you have some illusion that its being rushed?

Three years of an all volunteer staff of what: 2? 5? *maybe* a few more? developers working a few hours a day in their free time. Compare that to the original SOE team of some large number of people, working 40 hours a week, and it still took them a fair amount of time.

Now of course that's not quite a fair comparison, since the P99 team is just re-implementing, not implementing, but still the point is you have to consider the limited resources available. And if you do, then it's reasonable to let the devs release on their own timetable instead of acting like small children constantly asking "is it ready yet? how about now? now?", which is what a lot of the Velous posts amount to.

[gwideon]

Guarantee it is going to be faster than the next George R R Martin GoT release....

[Hailto]

Three years of an all volunteer staff of what: 2? 5? *maybe* a few more? developers working a few hours a day in their free time. Compare that to the original SOE team of some large number of people, working 40 hours a week, and it still took them a fair amount of time.

Now of course that's not quite a fair comparison, since the P99 team is just re-implementing, not implementing, but still the point is you have to consider the limited resources available. And if you do, then it's reasonable to let the devs release on their own timetable instead of acting like small children constantly asking "is it ready yet? how about now? now?", which is what a lot of the Velous posts amount to.

Im not complaining about the timeline, im simply saying that its ridiculous to claim the content is being rushed if its being released 3 years later.

[RiffDaemon]

Guarantee it is going to be faster than the next George R R Martin ASoIaF release....

*cough*

[Hailto]

*cough*

Much easier to just say GoT though, I do the same.

[Gadwen]

It's been like 3 years, why do you have some illusion that its being rushed?

I think he is referring to the players, not the actual development process.

[BigHurb]

its called Forumquest and the gfx are better

[Tiax]

I think to understand what emergent gameplay is, it will be helpful to consider emergent behaviors in other systems.

The classic example is nest building ants. You have 1000s of agents carrying out simple behaviors (foraging, carrying, depositing) without any overall plan, or understanding of how their actions is contributing to the whole. Yet from the simple interactions you get an emergent nest building behavior. Think also, flocking birds, and the behavior of human crowds.

So an example of this in a game would be the economy in EVE. This is a fundamental part of the game, established by the interactions of 1000s of players, which hasn't been 'planned' by the game designers.

The opposite would be a typical mmo boss mob encounter, where the ability of the mob and the players is strictly defined by the game creators, who have planned the correct way to win from the start.