Sony unveils Everquest 1 reboot MMO

[Tiggles]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/111/1111108p1.html

Apparently they have been working on it since '03 in one form or another.

The answer too our prayers or another corpse on the bloated MMO graveyard?

According to the panel they said they want it to be a hardcore MMO with corpse run like mechanics

[Harmonicdeth]

Hmm interesting... I hope those are concept art not actual screen shots..that shit looks like WoW mixed with Guild Wars.

[azeth]

Everyone, everyone, is wondering and forming opinions regarding whether this will pan out with a classic EQ feel, or a modern MMO feel.

^ I don't care


I guarantee this absorbs the remaining 4 years in my 20's and hopefully burns out before I'm 40 and 700 lbs.

[liveitup1216]

I guarantee this absorbs the remaining 4 years in my 20's and hopefully burns out before I'm 40 and 700 lbs.

qft. and people who say they wont even atleast try it are lying to themselves.

[Tunarian]

I'll play. And if it challenges me I'll play for more than 10 minutes.

[UrsusMajor]

Can you please either enlighten us at work, as that page is blocked, or copy/paste the article here if that's allowed?

[liveitup1216]

its literally a one or two small paragraph article where smedley states "it'll be a 'reboot' of eq1 with extra lore, core class design, updated combat, and stylized graphics"

with like 2 concept art pictures, or 1 veeeeery early alpha shot

[Jarod]

"This past weekend the Sony Online Entertainment Fan Fair took place in Las Vegas. The show was packed with EverQuest news and among the announcements was the first mention of EverQuest Next. This is the working title for what will be a new installment in the series.

The site Massively has video of the panel where the game was announced. For now, we have one piece of concept art and a screen of the game early in its development.

We'll likely hear more about this latest trek into Norrath very soon. "




Also one blurry picture.

[Dantes]

its literally a one or two small paragraph article where smedley states "it'll be a 'reboot' of eq1 with extra lore, core class design, updated combat, and stylized graphics

This means bigger boobs on the female characters.

[Seeatee]

I just hope they include berserkers from the get go, while I loved my warrior, once I discovered the awesomeness of the berserker class I never looked back.

:cool:

[Traderseven]

P99 All the way! Fuck Sony! (Sony i love you for making EQ)

[Izzni]

I'll play it. And this time I'll play it from day 1, unlike EQ2 where I started playing it well after the second expansion. By the time it comes out this server will be well into Velious anyway.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

I see nothing to get excited about, for me anyway.

Re-imagining is a dirty word. When Smed and crew were talking, I was hearing "we're going to reuse a bunch of names and very broad strokes to attract players of a previous game to our game even though it will have virtually no resemblance to that game at all".

This most likely going to be another 72 abilities on 6 hotbars with a global cooldown, all classes play almost the same, hand-holding, easy-mode game. It might be fun. It might have some clever design in a few quests or raids, but at it's best, it will be WoW-like with EQ place names and prettier graphics. If WoW-like was what I wanted, I would still be playing WoW.

I can't wait for a company to really take a chance on a game with novel mechanics. I'm also much more interested in the next sandbox type game. I prefer real freedom of movement (fewer zones that are basically a channel or maze with pretty trees or hills for walls). I prefer having everything reachable or explorable. If there is a building, I expect it to have an interior and a way to get in it (even if it is locked or guarded by something nasty). Anyway, I could go on for way to long on this subject. Maybe I should just design my own game :-). If you're interested in funding my game, I accept PayPal.

Bottom line: I expected very little from EQNext, and even less after listening to that panel.

[Seritaph]

I don't know about this. I have very little faith in SOE. Corpse runs will make it hard core? Doesn't WoW have corpse runs? Isn't it the easiest game on the planet?

Easy is not always bad, but it usually becomes boring. Risk vs. reward is lost and people become apathetic and bored. Then they start acting like asshats because of it.

SOE has not impressed me with what they do, but their games still appeal to many so good for them. I enjoyed EQ until they wrecked it, and I enjoyed SWG until they wrecked it. I almost enjoyed EQ2 until I discovered it was already wrecked, and then they wrecked it some more (and this is years ago, not talking about the FTP stuff). Vanguard could have been EQ's true successor. All they had to do was finish it, but instead, they wrecked it. This is all opinion, mind you. I'm crabby today.

Normally, I'd be optimistic, but not with them. I imagine a FreeRealms with an EQ theme. Cash shops and kiddie graphics seems to be their new model (hello Asian MMO market, let us nudge in next to you here). I hope I am wro...naw, I'm right.

[Eyry]

P99 All the way! Fuck Sony! (Sony i love you for making EQ)

...Sony did not make EQ...

[Evilmog]

P99 All the way! Fuck Sony! (Sony i love you for making EQ)

Sony didn't make EQ, they bought it and destoryed it.

Eyry beat me to it :(

[Molitoth]

http://www.massively.com/2010/08/07/fan-faire-2010-john-smedley-and-the-soe-crew-talk-everquest-nex/


Here are the videos If you didn't figure out how to find them.

[Lusst]

This means bigger boobs on the female characters.

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg474/xLusstx/YesJackNicholson.gif

[Tiggles]

This most likely going to be another 72 abilities on 6 hotbars with a global cooldown, all classes play almost the same, hand-holding, easy-mode game. It might be fun. It might have some clever design in a few quests or raids, but at it's best, it will be WoW-like with EQ place names and prettier graphics. If WoW-like was what I wanted, I would still be playing WoW.

They mentioned they whole hot bar global cool down thing in one of the questions and it seemed like they wanted to avoid that type of game play.

While I want this game to be the second coming of EQ I understand that the chances of this being a wow clone are high.

[Agecroft]

Smedley: what if we had a hardcore server with raiding and corpse runs on its one server?
(huge applause)

/faint

http://eq2wire.com/2010/08/07/live-blog-eqnext-panel2/#more-5248

[mmiles8]

Sony has made a few attempts at recreating classic eq. They've halfassed it every time. I don't know if any of you actually follow any of the dev discussion on live, but you should spend some time reading over Ngreth's posts over on the eqtrader forums from the last classic attempt.

It was a big beaurocracy with lots of red tape and many large egos that prevented anything from ever getting done. One thing that this server has the advantage on is a clear mission statement, and public communication with the devs about game mechanics.

TL;DR:
Sony is too big for Everquest's britches.

[Ketsa]

It will take a lot more to get me excited.
2 screenshots of concept art and a few vague statements, thats all ?

See you in 4-5 years for Alpha, IF the project is not canceled.

[HippoNipple]

I see nothing to get excited about, for me anyway.

Re-imagining is a dirty word. When Smed and crew were talking, I was hearing "we're going to reuse a bunch of names and very broad strokes to attract players of a previous game to our game even though it will have virtually no resemblance to that game at all".

This most likely going to be another 72 abilities on 6 hotbars with a global cooldown, all classes play almost the same, hand-holding, easy-mode game. It might be fun. It might have some clever design in a few quests or raids, but at it's best, it will be WoW-like with EQ place names and prettier graphics. If WoW-like was what I wanted, I would still be playing WoW.

I can't wait for a company to really take a chance on a game with novel mechanics. I'm also much more interested in the next sandbox type game. I prefer real freedom of movement (fewer zones that are basically a channel or maze with pretty trees or hills for walls). I prefer having everything reachable or explorable. If there is a building, I expect it to have an interior and a way to get in it (even if it is locked or guarded by something nasty). Anyway, I could go on for way to long on this subject. Maybe I should just design my own game :-). If you're interested in funding my game, I accept PayPal.

Bottom line: I expected very little from EQNext, and even less after listening to that panel.


Its called Immortal, it just came out, supposed to be the next UO. For me though I need items to mean something.. this game is a little too sandbox for me, it seems like leaving real life to log in and... work like its real life.

[Toony]

Its called Immortal, it just came out, supposed to be the next UO. For me though I need items to mean something.. this game is a little too sandbox for me, it seems like leaving real life to log in and... work like its real life.

Link? I searched for "Immortal" and found all sorts of stuff

[Thorjorkill]

its literally a one or two small paragraph article where smedley states "it'll be a 'reboot' of eq1 with extra lore, core class design, updated combat, and stylized graphics"

with like 2 concept art pictures, or 1 veeeeery early alpha shot

It will also be f2p with a MASSIVE cash shop. Hardcore only if you don't get your wallet out to make it EZMode.

Its gonna suck, nothing to see here....

[Tronjer]

Q: travel is too easy
smedley: I personally want to explore very square inch of our worlds. I like to see everything. But we have a lot of players that want that convenience.
A: we can keep convenience and still make it feel like a large world. Waiting 15minutes to start a group is a problem.


I already stopped reading at this paragraph. Next EQ iteration will become the same shit as usual, by addressing to people with low attention span once again.

[Reiker]

Doesn't WoW have corpse runs? Isn't it the easiest game on the planet?

Since you're somehow the only person in the world who has apparently never played WoW, no, it does not have corpse runs. It has 15 second invulnerable ghost sprints.

[thxer]

If they manage to make it work like EQ with the polish of WoW, I'll probably play it forever and ever. I better start stocking up on Cheetos!

[Feather]

I will stay loyal to 1999. They won't make classic - - it is the NEXT step, but I don't know how they can dummy it down more....

[Tiggles]

It will also be f2p with a MASSIVE cash shop. Hardcore only if you don't get your wallet out to make it EZMode.

Its gonna suck, nothing to see here....

Its not going to be free to play and I doubt it will have a cash shop as since it is multi-platform Sony does not allow microtransactions for games that do not use its own system, same reason console games rarely get patches and bug fixes.

[Sinder]

P99 All the way! Fuck Sony! (Sony i love you for making EQ)

credit where credits due. give it to Verant and you can still give sony the big FU

[Malrubius]

If they manage to make it work like EQ with the polish of WoW, I'll probably play it forever and ever. I better start stocking up on Cheetos!

If by "EQ" you mean the EQ of today, then you're tastes are very different than most of our's. I would only need one Cheeto.

If by "EQ" you mean classic EQ, then you can forget about it. There will be little to no risk in anything you do.

[Sinder]

the issue with "rebooting" or remaking everyquest was that it was super hard and extremely anti-user to play. something that doesnt actually appeal to a mass market situation. many gamers are casual players. here are some thoughts that will make it tough do accomplish this project and i can bet that the opinions posted on this forum get read if the people at sony are smart.

-sony is a business and are there to make money. it has been a long time since the verant crew developed a game that they actually wanted to play and had that backing of being fans themselves. not looking at the financial potential and only solely looking at just receiving enough funding to make something they cared about. if the game had a limited budget with passionate people behind it then i could see it being able to recreate the original feel of everquest.

-if it had its own story line then it would probably be better than mimicking its predecessors. Why? because... things like being there for the kill of the sleeper dragon made the game unique. having victory over things that we were meant to be stopped from doing, fighting hard and earning every little bit of what we got. discovering how to earn an epic weapon in kunark expansion. heck the event when they introduced the froglok playable race was fantastic! completely unannounced, completely without expansion being purchased. huge ingame NPC battles that werent there the day before being released on the ingame populace without anyone having to pay another penny to watch and live it. Thats what i call role playing. when the story unfolds as your playing not in a preboxed set where we fork our $40 and then get to watch dragons fight eachother and then go do raids in an instanced zone where no other guilds are competing for access.

the glamor of vallon zek (my 1999 server) and im sure many other servers including blue servers was the ability for a guild to limit others progress through teamwork and dominate the content. yeah it sucked. but man did it make you work harder. Id try to get my corpse for 2, 3, 4 hours cuz a guy would be corpse camping me. on vallon zek the sleeper was triggered just so no one else could get the avatar weapons. it was a spite move so people could retain their prestige and power. same thing happened on many of the blue servers. Yet on the all vs all pvp server where no one should have probably been able to conquer any mob of that stature and difficulty, 3 competing guilds came together to do something and dominate all other servers and earn their prestige. the games about being the best and having earned it. the closest sony has come to mimicking this idea is their server firsts titles :/ token at best to the real accomplishments that we used to earn.

my dare to sony would be make it hardcore. bring it, and lets see what you can do. I want impossible mobs, guilds competing for respawn timers, dying on corpse runs, running across a whole continent to get to where theres no port and the best place to level and dying several times along the way, the feel that you are treading on new ground and that when you reached your goal you earned it and it wasnt a silver platter, to not have access to 1/2 the world if i choose a certain race(not speaking of horde/alliance... something more real where people can cross over if they choose but its almost impossible to do). soapbox is gonna break soon if i keep standing on it lol. as a guy whose played everquest since 1999 when i was only 11 years old... i suffered through it then and now im the age to be the "target market" for most games, id like to see something that is so tough and refining to the playerbase that the "ragequitters" do exactly that and get lost

[stormiejs]

It'd be really difficult to implement a lot of the features that EverQuest had, because many of those "features" were the lack there of. A lot of MMOs seem to be following Blizzard (obviously, look at all the money they're shoveling) by implementing enough user friendly functionality to take away from the community. You've got the LFG stone (which ports you to the dungeon with players you'll never see again), auctionhouse, mailbox, etc. All of these features let the casual player hop on and be playing within seconds, where as in EverQuest you could be spending a few hours just to get somewhere.

Is Sony really in any position to be working against the current generation norm? It seems like everyone fits the mold just to make sure they have subscribers, this seems like they're trying for a very small niche of the market.

That, or this was just clever marketing to generate interest in a game that will be nothing like EverQuest. ;)

[Tiggles]

I'm almost positive that the raid dungeons will be instanced so its a big turn off for me.

[garyogburn]

A new EQ restart huh?

Wait, do I see Sony in the title?

Failboat. Nothing will ever come close to original EQ, and by extension, p99, again. Anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves. Sony ruined eq to begin with, why would anything think this would be different?

I fully expect instances and buying in game items for real cash from the start.

[Cyrano]

If they could do EQ PVP in designated zones with areas that factions must build up (by funneling items and money) fortifications and progress in that would be awesome. The biggest danger though is having lopsided forces and I think WoW was smart when they buffed the lesser side to make the fights more interesting.

I love the idea of having a hold that you helped build up (this has to take a ton of work and time to be worthwhile to us MMO masochists) and then having to defend it. Perhaps if they had designated times two or three times a day when sieges are available.

While I'm not a hardcore PVPer, the outdoor PVP in WotLK was heading a direction that I loved. Now if only I had something invested in protecting my hold or help my faction advance.... such as time creating it.

I also hope they don't just instance everything, the long term camps in EQ are what help build community. Sitting at the same spawn point a few hours grinding exp or trying to get an item forces people to interact with one another in group and in zone via /shout or /occ whereas instances in WoW are so fast-paced that you never really talk with people around you unless it's about the instance.

I love the community aspect of EQ and hope they retain it instead of just making us players hellbent on efficiency 100% of the time in game (i.e. cramming 5 heroics into a 3 hour span, I'd rather go sit at a camp with people and shoot the shit and only go into "gametime" mode when a raid mob pops and I have to race).

So, if they could develop meaningful outdoor PVP, while maintaining the community that camping dungeons create, and continue to push true competition via non-instanced single target raid mobs... I think we'd have a great start given the modern capabilities of game designers.

[Cyrano]

Wow I'm brain-dead, that's a horribly written post.

[Overcast]

Wow I'm brain-dead, that's a horribly written post.

I understood it fine - and I agree on all those points.

Here's the thing. NO EASY MMO can build what EQ builds. Not necessarily for the 'in game' toon - it's what it builds for the RL person playing it...

Patience
Tenacity
Persistence
Diplomacy

Don't need to be patient in WoW - right? Everything's instanced - not long ago when you couldn't get in instances due to poulation, the community went ballistic.

Tenacity - you will get something every dungeon run in WoW now, no need to be tenacious for a single item that you want big time. There's always something just about as good. Or something you can get in the AH - maybe this changes *a bit* at 80 - but get in the right guild and just steam roll the same instance over and over. Crowd Control? Who needs it - WoW has 'gear score'.

Diplomacy - no need to worry in most instanced MMO's - you have your own zone. You can pretty much walk all over or piss off whoever you want, don't really matter a lot - unless maybe it's your own guild.

EQ offers the RL player more challenge... just by nature. Game mechanics aside. Sure some raids in WoW might be harder - but it's not like you get one shot with another guild behind you - you can do the raid non-stop 24x7 if you want.

[HippoNipple]

Link? I searched for "Immortal" and found all sorts of stuff

I failed, its called mortal online, not immortal, sorry for the mix up.

http://www.mortalonline.com/age_verification?destination=node/92

Its a complete sand box, you start out with a mining axe and nothing to fight with... no direction... you just gotta go up to a tree and start hacking cause thats all you can do... build up some str and get some materials and decide what to do from there. It is a cool concept but last I saw the actual game play was horrible, videos were enough to make me not want to play. Maybe they got their act together but I think the game was running out of funding and had to come out before it was all fixed.

[Xoremus]

P99 All the way! Fuck Sony! (Sony i love you for making EQ)

HeH Thank Verant ...not sony

[cured]

Tenacity - you will get something every dungeon run in WoW now, no need to be tenacious for a single item that you want big time. There's always something just about as good. Or something you can get in the AH - maybe this changes *a bit* at 80 - but get in the right guild and just steam roll the same instance over and over. Crowd Control? Who needs it - WoW has 'gear score'.

I agree with everything you said except this. At level 80 this is much, much worse. Just die your way through a heroic enough times and you'll have enough tokens to get something comparable to what the guild who one-shotted Arthas got. There are so many ways to get gear in WotLK that it ruins the specialness of actually getting anything at all.

[mmiles8]

I actually had to look up my old armory... I said to myself, when did 80 become the max level? Oh right...

It's only been two months since I stopped playing, and that's how far behind me it is.

[Aum]

Sorry to be the cynic but the magic MMO that everyones praying for will not exist. Games are not played the same as they were 10 years ago. This server is great, and playing through as a classic experience is a blast, but you will never find a new game to challenge you like this one did.

You're all experienced gamers now, and as such, you've ruined your future in finding a good game with the qualities most of you are looking for. You all know the mechanics of MMO's. There is only so much you can do with this concept before you're branching out so far that it's hardly even in the same genre. Information is easily spread, and no one likes to be out of the loop, so you seek it. That alone leaves only the exploration of a game world, most of which is also online and found fairly easy.

Find ways to enjoy new games, the ones that cater to an easier crowd, enjoy playing on this server, or give up.

Personally, I think vanilla WoW had it going on. Some fun instances to group in, pretty decent raiding, a few global targets, and mediocre PvP. Was it EQ? No. But gaming is dead. It's 2010 and every game is going to be easy to most people. You're playing on nostalgia, not challenge. Don't kid yourselves.

[Droxik]

This means bigger boobs on the female characters.

^^ Rofl

[Humerox]

Most of us who waited years for Vanguard to come out said the same things.

Brad tried hard to EQ it up...but when the funding poofed and he had to go to Sony, guess what happened? They gloriously fuxored it up.

Anything and everything Sony does is about the cash. Hardcore gaming != mass appeal. Therefore, not gonna fricken' happen.

[Tunarian]

Sorry to be the cynic but the magic MMO that everyones praying for will not exist. Games are not played the same as they were 10 years ago. This server is great, and playing through as a classic experience is a blast, but you will never find a new game to challenge you like this one did.

You're all experienced gamers now, and as such, you've ruined your future in finding a good game with the qualities most of you are looking for. You all know the mechanics of MMO's. There is only so much you can do with this concept before you're branching out so far that it's hardly even in the same genre. Information is easily spread, and no one likes to be out of the loop, so you seek it. That alone leaves only the exploration of a game world, most of which is also online and found fairly easy.

Find ways to enjoy new games, the ones that cater to an easier crowd, enjoy playing on this server, or give up.

Personally, I think vanilla WoW had it going on. Some fun instances to group in, pretty decent raiding, a few global targets, and mediocre PvP. Was it EQ? No. But gaming is dead. It's 2010 and every game is going to be easy to most people. You're playing on nostalgia, not challenge. Don't kid yourselves.

Well said. Sad but true.

Most of us who waited years for Vanguard to come out said the same things.

Brad tried hard to EQ it up...but when the funding poofed and he had to go to Sony, guess what happened? They gloriously fuxored it up.

Anything and everything Sony does is about the cash. Hardcore gaming != mass appeal. Therefore, not gonna fricken' happen.

Sony didn't fuck it up. Sony resurrected the game to a playable state. That game was doomed from the beginning because Brad, somewhere along the line, lost interest and stopped giving a shit about the game and instead saw dollar signs. They tried to appeal to a wider audience and screwed it all up. If you chase two rabbits you won't catch either of them. Unless you're Blizzard, then the experienced rabbit just gives up and settles for a sub par pursuer.

Did that make any sense? :eek:

[Humerox]

Sony didn't fuck it up. Sony resurrected the game to a playable state. That game was doomed from the beginning because Brad, somewhere along the line, lost interest and stopped giving a shit about the game and instead saw dollar signs. They tried to appeal to a wider audience and screwed it all up. If you chase two rabbits you won't catch either of them. Unless you're Blizzard, then the experienced rabbit just gives up and settles for a sub par pursuer.

Did that make any sense? :eek:

Meh. I may be misremembering...but I had some convos with Brad during beta, especially when he was wanting to make some changes to Diplomacy. He seemed really put off about being rushed to release faster than he wanted to be, and Sony was making demands for changes he really didn't like. Can't remember who was funding it before Sony, but when they pulled he didn't have much choice...I personally don't think he lost the vision, he just couldn't afford to keep it.

Just my humble opinion, tho.

[Tiggles]

Meh. I may be misremembering...but I had some convos with Brad during beta, especially when he was wanting to make some changes to Diplomacy. He seemed really put off about being rushed to release faster than he wanted to be, and Sony was making demands for changes he really didn't like. Can't remember who was funding it before Sony, but when they pulled he didn't have much choice...I personally don't think he lost the vision, he just couldn't afford to keep it.

Just my humble opinion, tho.


From what I heard Brad was a pain in the ass to work with never showed up for design meetings and never accepted ideas from others. Apparently, he thought since he made EQ he was above failure and he just cashed in on Vanguard and it crashed.

[cured]

I think the Vanguard team went through a few different sources of income, Microsoft was one of them, I believe. I had a friend who worked on the game, incidentally enough I think he was tasked with writing Diplomacy conversation exchanges, but the hours were murder. He worked, I think, 12-14 hours a day 6 days a week when development was really ramped up on it.

The game went through a few iterations of basic combat...nothing seemed to stick.

It seemed obvious to me when I tried it on launch, though, that the game was just not ready yet. Can't fault Blizzard for torturing their audience because they tend to release games after they've had tons of coats of refining and polish.

[oldhead]

not impressed.

Im here until Star Wars comes out... if that sucks ill be back... until jumpgate comes out... if that sucks ill be back.... or I get bant

[oldhead]

Vanguard was a great game with lots of potential.. brad just fucked up. he thought people would upgrade their shit to play his game. Times changed... more options now. blizzard made their game ready to play on any system.

The funding and a few of Brads errors due to his Ego is what fucked up Vanguard... it really is a great game, the launch screwed it horribly. it was over a year under developed.

Its a shame too... Brad had the chance to create his vision again and it failed. I doubt he will ever have that chance again and we all love his vision as we play this emulated version of it.

[Malrubius]

Sorry to be the cynic but the magic MMO that everyones praying for will not exist. Games are not played the same as they were 10 years ago. This server is great, and playing through as a classic experience is a blast, but you will never find a new game to challenge you like this one did.

You're all experienced gamers now, and as such, you've ruined your future in finding a good game with the qualities most of you are looking for. You all know the mechanics of MMO's. There is only so much you can do with this concept before you're branching out so far that it's hardly even in the same genre. Information is easily spread, and no one likes to be out of the loop, so you seek it. That alone leaves only the exploration of a game world, most of which is also online and found fairly easy.

Find ways to enjoy new games, the ones that cater to an easier crowd, enjoy playing on this server, or give up.

Personally, I think vanilla WoW had it going on. Some fun instances to group in, pretty decent raiding, a few global targets, and mediocre PvP. Was it EQ? No. But gaming is dead. It's 2010 and every game is going to be easy to most people. You're playing on nostalgia, not challenge. Don't kid yourselves.

Ehh, I've heard this argument before, but frankly I think it's a cop-out. One that's used by Sony too, fwiw.

A hardcore game that is every bit as challenging/frustrating/immersive/addicting to us (experienced gamers) as EQ was to us in 1999 - is certainly achievable if anybody had the balls to try it.

It hasn't been done because everybody is still trying to "be like WoW" in order to make $$$ - and failing miserably for the most part because the market is flooded with them.

It would be ironic if Blizzard were the first to "get it" and be the ones to make the first true hardcore fantasy MMO since 1999. :D

[Tiggles]

Speaking of Brad Mcquaid looks like he started another company that is focusing on making casual PC games.

Anyone up for some Bejeweled?

www.bradmcquaid.com (http://www.bradmcquaid.com)

[PhelanKA]

It would be ironic if Blizzard were the first to "get it" and be the ones to make the first true hardcore fantasy MMO since 1999. :D

I thought that was called "Diablo 2"

[XDrake]

its literally a one or two small paragraph article where smedley states "it'll be a 'reboot' of eq1 with extra lore, core class design, updated combat, and stylized graphics"

with like 2 concept art pictures, or 1 veeeeery early alpha shot

...So like EQII were they rediscover all of EQI each expansion? :D

[XDrake]

Vanguard was a great game with lots of potential.. brad just fucked up. he thought people would upgrade their shit to play his game. Times changed... more options now. blizzard made their game ready to play on any system.

The funding and a few of Brads errors due to his Ego is what fucked up Vanguard... it really is a great game, the launch screwed it horribly. it was over a year under developed.

Its a shame too... Brad had the chance to create his vision again and it failed. I doubt he will ever have that chance again and we all love his vision as we play this emulated version of it.

Very true. I feel bad the game's launch was so poor. The fact it got rushed is sad. I think it would have been what EQ was intended to become post-Velious.

[Troy]

Can't fault Blizzard for torturing their audience because they tend to release games after they've had tons of coats of refining and polish.

Truth. I had a friend working at Blizzard a while back and got into the friends and family alpha test for WoW. The game was already less buggy than Live EQ and this was late 2003 :cool:

I'll try this EQ Next since at this point in my life I don't have time to really play EQ classic as it's meant to be played. Between that, The Old Republic, and whatever else is coming out I should be able to find something fun for casual play.

[Levon]

Sorry to be the cynic but the magic MMO that everyones praying for will not exist. Games are not played the same as they were 10 years ago. This server is great, and playing through as a classic experience is a blast, but you will never find a new game to challenge you like this one did.

This. There will never be another 'Everquest circa 1999-2000'.

The circumstances surrounding EQ when it came out were perfect for hardcore gamers like us to fall head-over-heels for a game like it. MMO gaming was a brand new thing for most everyone at that time and the large open-ended game that EQ was took advantage of the MMO game type perfectly.

Most of us didn't even know how to play a game like EQ when it came out. I certainly didn't. I did not power through anything during those first two years. I can't count how many times I died just trying to explore the seemingly limitless world of EQ. I spent probably 1/10th of my time leveling and the rest of it just trying to figure out what was possible with such a large and open-ended game. In hindsight now of course I know all that exploring I did was pointless and if I wanted to really 'beat' the game as it were, I should have just been leveling. Now I know that and that's why the thrill is gone.

I just can't see a phenomenon like classic EQ ever happening again. Project 1999 is probably the closest we'll ever get because of the home-grown non-profit aspect of it except that we're all jaded to the experience now so there's no sense of awe that made EQ so enticing and addicting in the first place.

Plus, we'll all be micro-payment'd to death if the accountants have anything to do with it.

[Arclanz]

Vanguard was a great game with lots of potential.. brad just fucked up. he thought people would upgrade their shit to play his game. Times changed... more options now. blizzard made their game ready to play on any system.

The funding and a few of Brads errors due to his Ego is what fucked up Vanguard... it really is a great game, the launch screwed it horribly. it was over a year under developed.

Its a shame too... Brad had the chance to create his vision again and it failed. I doubt he will ever have that chance again and we all love his vision as we play this emulated version of it.

His big mistake was biting off more than he could chew. He admitted this in not-so-many words. "Let's make an EVEN BIGGER WORLD!!!" OMGdz! But as is painfully evident in the new Freeport...bigger means emptier. Vanguard never found the time to add content / npcs / storyline to the vast majority of the landscape.

Bigger is not always better.

The memory leaks; the occasional falling underneath the world; the hardware requirements did not cause me to stop playing. The linear questline requiring mere clicks was lame. What Vanguard did very well was the game mechanics. As a member of a group; you can see in an instance exactly where your groupmates are in relation to you; and exactly where aggro'd mobs are and who they are aggroing.

[Seritaph]

Vanguard. I was so hopeful, and it almost worked. I thought to myself, THIS is what EQ 2 should have been. And then the floor fell out. Yeah, it's still a game, and it's not terrible. But it comes nowhere near its potential.

[Crover_CT99]

His big mistake was biting off more than he could chew. He admitted this in not-so-many words. "Let's make an EVEN BIGGER WORLD!!!" OMGdz! But as is painfully evident in the new Freeport...bigger means emptier. Vanguard never found the time to add content / npcs / storyline to the vast majority of the landscape.

Bigger is not always better.

Do you mean in terms of release or to this day? What I've found coming back to VG now is that a majority (not all) of the game is populated and itemized. Some areas are itemized but need a second pass. Some areas need an epic quest or two to draw people to the area. But honestly, my brother and I have been overwhelmed with content so much that we often leave a level range with 1-2 dungeons we never touched (great replay value for other characters).

Part of the problem, which extends to the old ezmode argument, is that a majority of players do not seem to have any desire to try to find those great hidden areas with good content/rewards that just aren't very well known. We constantly have to link soulbound, above-average boss drops we are getting in some pseudo-obscure dungeon to convince people to venture out from the 'urt -> hunter's league -> celestine ward -> swamp armor' treadmill everyone does 1-50 like a religion.

This is a dead horse and I'm preaching to the choir, but I it gets frustrating knowing the popular opinion is that VG lacks content. It really doesn't.

[Tunarian]

Do you mean in terms of release or to this day? What I've found coming back to VG now is that a majority (not all) of the game is populated and itemized. Some areas are itemized but need a second pass. Some areas need an epic quest or two to draw people to the area. But honestly, my brother and I have been overwhelmed with content so much that we often leave a level range with 1-2 dungeons we never touched (great replay value for other characters).

Part of the problem, which extends to the old ezmode argument, is that a majority of players do not seem to have any desire to try to find those great hidden areas with good content/rewards that just aren't very well known. We constantly have to link soulbound, above-average boss drops we are getting in some pseudo-obscure dungeon to convince people to venture out from the 'urt -> hunter's league -> celestine ward -> swamp armor' treadmill everyone does 1-50 like a religion.

This is a dead horse and I'm preaching to the choir, but I it gets frustrating knowing the popular opinion is that VG lacks content. It really doesn't.

I've heard this from so many people, and I have said the same thing to so many people including yourself. I won't go back to VG because I'm afraid of it being shut down. I'm playing P99 a bit, and I'm playing WoW a lot because it's consistent. If they released VG with a new marketing strategy they would probably grab more players and I would probably be one of them.

[mimixownzall]

Instances? No thanks.

Instances are for lazy developers.

Instances ruined MMOs.

[eqdruid76]

Instances? No thanks.

Instances are for lazy developers.

Instances ruined MMOs.

False.

Instances brought in hundreds of thousands of casual players, which sustain MMOs long after the hardcore players jump ship for the next FOTM.

Hardcore players demanding rushed, incomplete content and mechanics are the ones who ruin MMOs.

[RKromwell]

I like doing dungeon crawls...I also like clearing them and not having the creatures spawn again twenty minutes later. That is what I liked about LDoN so much. Made me feel like I did something.

[Tiggles]

Instances are a necessary evil now. Thought instances that require flagging for raids would be awesome.

I do hope they do not instance dungeons and only raid content

[fugazi]

The key to non-instanced dungeons is to make them frikking huge and require you to wrestle yourself through them. Think Sebilis, the Sarnak city and those kind of EQ dungeons but bigger and with more content. Oh, and never ever implement (flying) mounts. Just introduce waypoints at inns and such and give a few classes phat teleportation spells that will make them desirable in groups.

[corradojeff]

One of the biggest resons we will never have the "Classic EQ felling" again is because in 1999 there really wasnt another option.

When you first logged in to EQ all you had was *a tattered note to go on. NOTHING ELSE. you had to figure it out for yourself. This is a difficult thing to do and to try and duplicate this today is impossible because of all the other options that are our there. Most people (and therefore most of the profit) will opt for a game that is a bit easier and that choice is a credit card payment away...

I think for the next MMO to be success full it will have to cater more to the casual player. If the new dungoens were instanced but required a flagging that would be great but I think it would cater better to the aforementioned player if that flag could be obtained in several small steps (ie: Logging in for 1-2 hours to obtain an item or kill a specific NPC and logging off) and then the final step to be a bit of a hard one (ie: Something that takes a group or two and 3-4 hours to kill). After that you would be flagged for this instance that your guild could get together for and accomplish in 4-5 hours.

This type of play would cater to a casual player a bit more. They wouldnt need to log on for hours and hours on end to experience content and it would still feel like you have worked for your end goal.

My 2 pennies...

[Tiggles]

One of the biggest resons we will never have the "Classic EQ felling" again is because in 1999 there really wasnt another option.

When you first logged in to EQ all you had was *a tattered note to go on. NOTHING ELSE. you had to figure it out for yourself. This is a difficult thing to do and to try and duplicate this today is impossible because of all the other options that are our there. Most people (and therefore most of the profit) will opt for a game that is a bit easier and that choice is a credit card payment away...

I think for the next MMO to be success full it will have to cater more to the casual player. If the new dungoens were instanced but required a flagging that would be great but I think it would cater better to the aforementioned player if that flag could be obtained in several small steps (ie: Logging in for 1-2 hours to obtain an item or kill a specific NPC and logging off) and then the final step to be a bit of a hard one (ie: Something that takes a group or two and 3-4 hours to kill). After that you would be flagged for this instance that your guild could get together for and accomplish in 4-5 hours.

This type of play would cater to a casual player a bit more. They wouldnt need to log on for hours and hours on end to experience content and it would still feel like you have worked for your end goal.

My 2 pennies...


I really liked the whole PoP Style of flagging

Casuals had a large portion of the zones to level in. Casual raiding guilds had those zones plus another section of zones to level in with the knowledge that people in these tier 2 zones had slight raid experience and knew what they where doing.

Then you had the elemental planes that mostly consisted of guild groups and soloers who can taken the time to raid full time.

Pop had tons of content for the entire spectrum and it was EQ's best Vision expac.


Also, I'm for the 75% Flag share thing to allow people to quickly flag newer guild members/public raids as well.


If NewEQ has that plus city sized non instanced zones like Seb, Chardok, Guk etc (the main draw of EQ for me) the game will hold my attention.

[Dominick]

They did it right once, Discord. That was a reboot that worked.

Abandon all hope ye who enter EQNExt:

Q: travel is too easy
smedley: I personally want to explore very square inch of our worlds. I like to see everything. But we have a lot of players that want that convenience.
A: we can keep convenience and still make it feel like a large world. Waiting 15minutes to start a group is a problem.

15 minutes to group is excessive?

Except for zones where you needed a raid party to enter, how many years did it take to really see every zone in Classic, Kunark and Velious? How many months did it take to see most everything in PoP? Most everything in the old world in WoW took what a month?

It sounds more like the take you by the nose and play the game for you, like WoW.

[Lagaidh]

Hardcore players demanding rushed, incomplete content and mechanics are the ones who ruin MMOs.

This is so true. I've always found it ironic that the EQ player base never took this to heart as a maxim. The vocal minority of true power gamers demanding new content always trumped the rest of the player base in live.

It lead to rushed expansions with incomplete or ill-conceived content as well as item inflation starting in Luclin.

In the rush to be the best there are so many that don't stop and smell the roses.

I used to say I was the master of wasting time. By the time the cap was L65, I had a couple hundred days played and was not level 65. I finally did reach the L70 cap in OoW.

There's so much charm in the game world to take it fast. Even in vanilla.

[Arclanz]

Do you mean in terms of release or to this day? What I've found coming back to VG now is that a majority (not all) of the game is populated and itemized. Some areas are itemized but need a second pass. Some areas need an epic quest or two to draw people to the area. But honestly, my brother and I have been overwhelmed with content so much that we often leave a level range with 1-2 dungeons we never touched (great replay value for other characters).

Part of the problem, which extends to the old ezmode argument, is that a majority of players do not seem to have any desire to try to find those great hidden areas with good content/rewards that just aren't very well known. We constantly have to link soulbound, above-average boss drops we are getting in some pseudo-obscure dungeon to convince people to venture out from the 'urt -> hunter's league -> celestine ward -> swamp armor' treadmill everyone does 1-50 like a religion.

This is a dead horse and I'm preaching to the choir, but I it gets frustrating knowing the popular opinion is that VG lacks content. It really doesn't.

I mean at launch and up to several months afterwards. My friend and I explored far and wide, and very few of the continent had content / npc / storyline. If it's filled out more now, maybe I'll check it out. For example, I played the wolf-people (forgot the official name) and a lot of the areas around it were empty. There were cool areas nearby like platforms and whatnot that looked like they should contain content; but didn't.

Another problem with vanguard is the zero downtime thanks to out of combat hyper regen. As a result, no one takes the time to get to know each other. It's just grind grind grind. I also didn't like how the numerical system was high. My 20th level shaman was critting for 1,120. I understand the mob has appropriate hit points but that 1,120 just seems silly to look at.

[Toony]

One of the biggest resons we will never have the "Classic EQ felling" again is because in 1999 there really wasnt another option.

To an extent I get that feeling every night I log in, is it as INTENSE or v-i-v-i-d as the first time? No but most things aren't, most, /wink

[Cyrano]

To an extent I get that feeling every night I log in, is it as INTENSE or v-i-v-i-d as the first time? No but most things aren't, most, /wink

Plus you guys all popped your MMO cherry back in the day. Your mind will never be blown like that again.

[Phelp]

Sony didn't make EQ, they bought it and destoryed it.

Eyry beat me to it :(

Actually pretty sure 989 studios was a subsiderary of SOE. 989 Studios/VI made EQ so theirfor SOE would have made EQ

[Arclanz]

My understanding was 989 made this cool proof of concept; but Sony funded the actual development. Why else would Qeynos be named as such?

So, who do you give credit to? The money that made the game a possibility or the programmers who made the game a possibility? Because both of them were 100% necessary to the birth of EQ.

[oldhead]

I give credit to programmers always. Investors are just that.

[PhelanKA]

Instances? No thanks.

Instances are for lazy developers.

Instances ruined MMOs.

I think what you mean is that instances ruined EQ. Which they did in more ways than one.

[Tiggles]

I think what you mean is that instances ruined EQ. Which they did in more ways than one.

The game will have instances I have no doubt in my mind that this will happen. What remains to be seen is that will they instance the entire game like wow and make the over-world just a piece of scenery to cross till you raid or will they just instance certain raids and keep the dungeons uninstanced.

[Izzni]

The game will have instances I have no doubt in my mind that this will happen. What remains to be seen is that will they instance the entire game like wow and make the over-world just a piece of scenery to cross till you raid or will they just instance certain raids and keep the dungeons uninstanced.

Nah, normal grouping instances didn't ruin EQ. Raid instances on the other hand made gear require no competing. LDoN was probably one of my most favorite expansions. In any case, the best gear still came from non-instanced raids during LDoN.