Question about xp penalty in groups

[Chahir]

Hello!

I am playing a Troll Sk, gf playing HEF cleric. I get -68, she gets +-0.

Can someone please explain to me roughly how these three scenarios will pan out?

We kill a mob thats higher than us both. (me 13, she 10, mob 15)

We kill a mob that is between our level. (me 13, she 10, mob 12)

We kill a mob thats below both of our levels. (me 13, she 10, mob 8)

Just the basics so I get an idea of what to hunt :)

Thanks in advance

[Lyrith]

Depends on how efficiently you can kill the mob and the downtime between them. Killing a higher level mob with the same amount of downtime of a lower level mob would be the way to go.

It all really comes down to keeping your downtime at a bare minimum and constant reliable kills/pulls going.

[lecompte]

The exp from every kill is reduced 68% than split between you and the cleric. You'll level at the same rate so long as every kill is grouped. The most efficient way to level would be to find a high dps class like a rogue or enchanter w/ charmed pet and have them DPS the mobs you're tanking. The ideal exp is as Lyrith mentioned. Minimum downtime, constant kills.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

The exp from every kill is reduced 68% than split between you and the cleric. This is absolutely incorrect.

You'll level at the same rate so long as every kill is grouped. This is correct.

For the skinny on xp penalties, please read the my post which is linked within the FAQ stickied at the top of the Library forum.

Link to FAQ... http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1002

Link to my post... http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24405

[Quineloe]

This is absolutely incorrect.


That sounds like a damn nightmare. More than three times the kills to exp just because one character in the group is a troll SK? no one would group these, ever.

[sox7d]

As far as I can tell, the exp is equal to as if the highest level character solo'd it (because if it's green to one person, no one gets exp) and then that experience is split amongst the group. The racial penalty is divided throughout the group so you would get 34% less exp and she would get 34% less exp. Then the group exp bonus (2% per member) would increase it.

So, if you (highest level) kill a mob that yields (figuratively) 100 xp points if you solo'd it, you would both receive (100/n) * (1-%penalty/n) * 1.02.

n = people in group.

Might be wrong, though.

[Danth]

The exp from every kill is reduced 68%.

Huh? I don't think you worded that correctly.

Experience is divided based on total experience of the characters in question. It doesn't matter what level mobs you kill; it works the same regardless. The game doesn't care what level you are either**, only how much experience you have. A Troll Shadow Knight has 68% more experience than a High Elf Cleric of the same level, so it receives proportionally more experience from a battle. However, since the Troll requires that much more experience to level, the two characters level at the same rate while grouped.

Try to keep your girlfriend's Cleric equal level or better relative to your Shadow Knight if possible. Increasing a character's experience total is the only way of improving its cut of the experience while grouped. The fastest way to level is to keep busy and minimize downtime. With a Shadow Knight/Cleric duo you'll tend to favor fighting undead when possible because it'll make your damage spells and fears more efficient.

**Assuming blue-con or higher mobs. Light blues or green monsters to the highest groupmate of course have diminished or no returns.

Danth

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

...stuff...Might be wrong, though.No need to speculate. Read my post in the FAQ

[baalzy]

Huh? I don't think you worded that correctly.

Experience is divided based on total experience of the characters in question. It doesn't matter what level mobs you kill; it works the same regardless. The game doesn't care what level you are either**, only how much experience you have. A Troll Shadow Knight has 68% more experience than a High Elf Cleric of the same level, so it receives proportionally more experience from a battle. However, since the Troll requires that much more experience to level, the two characters level at the same rate while grouped.

Try to keep your girlfriend's Cleric equal level or better relative to your Shadow Knight if possible. Increasing a character's experience total is the only way of improving its cut of the experience while grouped. The fastest way to level is to keep busy and minimize downtime. With a Shadow Knight/Cleric duo you'll tend to favor fighting undead when possible because it'll make your damage spells and fears more efficient.

**Assuming blue-con or higher mobs. Light blues or green monsters to the highest groupmate of course have diminished or no returns.

Danth

The one thing I've never quite understood is, what happens if both characters group starting at level 1 and neither of them kills a single mob solo? It would stand to reason that they'd end up splitting the xp 50/50 because they both have 0 xp to start with. This would mean that the cleric would gain levels faster than the SK because their XP totals are the same, but the total xp required to level for the cleric is significantly lower than the SK. Eventually the cleric would outlevel the SK to the point where they couldn't gain xp together anymore.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

The one thing I've never quite understood is, what happens if both characters group starting at level 1 and neither of them kills a single mob solo? It would stand to reason that they'd end up splitting the xp 50/50 because they both have 0 xp to start with. This would mean that the cleric would gain levels faster than the SK because their XP totals are the same, but the total xp required to level for the cleric is significantly lower than the SK. Eventually the cleric would outlevel the SK to the point where they couldn't gain xp together anymore.An interesting corner case. I would be happy to spend a coupe hours testing it with you one day. It should work the way you are describing it though.

[Quineloe]

The one thing I've never quite understood is, what happens if both characters group starting at level 1 and neither of them kills a single mob solo? It would stand to reason that they'd end up splitting the xp 50/50 because they both have 0 xp to start with. This would mean that the cleric would gain levels faster than the SK because their XP totals are the same, but the total xp required to level for the cleric is significantly lower than the SK. Eventually the cleric would outlevel the SK to the point where they couldn't gain xp together anymore.

They probably put some exception in there for very low levels because if they didn't, a level 2 grouping with a level 1 would get all the exp and the level 1 zero.

[drktmplr12]

Eventually the cleric would outlevel the SK to the point where they couldn't gain xp together anymore.

This wouldn't happen. If they leveled together.. once the cleric reached level 50, the SK would still be level 44.

The SK would be starting 56 by the time the Cleric finished 60.

[Chahir]

This is absolutely incorrect.

This is correct.

For the skinny on xp penalties, please read the my post which is linked within the FAQ stickied at the top of the Library forum.

Link to FAQ... http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1002

Link to my post... http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24405

Very informative FAQ, thank you!

So I should stuff the cleric full of CB belts so she becomes approx 1 level higher than me to be sure?

[Lune]

Eventually the cleric would outlevel the SK to the point where they couldn't gain xp together anymore.

An interesting corner case. I would be happy to spend a coupe hours testing it with you one day. It should work the way you are describing it though.

This wouldn't happen. If they leveled together.. once the cleric reached level 50, the SK would still be level 44.

The SK would be starting 56 by the time the Cleric finished 60.

Doesn't work like that. Level 1~ might be an exception because of oddities in the exp pool.

The experience system is implemented the way it is because the developers intended a group of people to be able to level together as a cohort, in spite of differences in leveling speed.

Individuals who require more experience to level consume a larger portion of the experience from any given mob, to the effect that a level 10 troll shadow knight and a level 10 high elf cleric will level at the same pace when grouped. As long as they stay grouped, the cleric will not outlevel the SK.

The F.A.Q and pie metaphor helps elucidate how XP sharing behaves when you have hybrids of different levels, etc, but the important thing to take away is that all members of a group gain experience at the same rate. The cleric would be level 50, and the SK would be level 50, as long as they stayed grouped.

At least, this is the way I understand it based on heaps of research and experience. Correct me if I'm wrong and you know what you're talking about.

In regards to the sharing of the experience penalty, it was apparent in beta, before the penalty was shared, that those playing characters without an experience penalty leveled faster than those that did. It was obvious that this would occur, but it was to the extreme that a group of friends, all playing together, would become separated to the point that they could no longer group efficiently in the mid to upper-mid levels. So we chose to distribute experience in the group on the basis of the total experience of each member rather than the level, in order to keep groups together.

As such, a level 20 Troll SK, having more experience total than a Human Wizard of the same level, would get more experience from each kill, while the total experience for the kill was unchanged. Essentially, the SK would take part of the Wizard's share were everything distributed equally to begin with.

[lecompte]

An interesting corner case. I would be happy to spend a coupe hours testing it with you one day. It should work the way you are describing it though.

I duo'd an enchanter and ranger from 45 to 52 exclusively. We level'd at the exact same rate.

And I'm sorry, I was incorrect on the Xp penalty thing. Lune hit the nail on the heal. The penalty class just takes a proportionally larger % of the exp in order to move the xp bar.

Wasn't there a web based calculator where you could put in everyone's level, class and race and it would tell you what % of the exp each person would get from each kill?

[baalzy]

Right, I was only saying/wondering in regards to if 2 people starting with 0 exp grouped together forever. They'd also have to never die, or else it would cause them to have unequal amounts of xp.

[Brocktree]

Regarding two chars that are always grouped. It should work like this and they will level at the exact same speed.

EX: SK needs 150 exp to level
Cleric needs 100 exp to level.

You kill a mob that nets 10 group exp, cleric gets 4 exp SK gets 6 exp. After 25 mobs, both of you ding. etc. etc.

[Lune]

Wasn't there a web based calculator where you could put in everyone's level, class and race and it would tell you what % of the exp each person would get from each kill?

There was... I had to bookmarked for a long time, but it stopped working a while ago.

[Ahldagor]

There was... I had to bookmarked for a long time, but it stopped working a while ago.

way back machine resurrection possible?

[Lune]

way back machine resurrection possible?

It's something I've only known about on P99. I dug around the forums and tried to find the link. This might be it:

http://stdlib.info/eqxpcalc/

but it doesn't work and doesn't seem to be archived

*edit* In the thread where I found the old link to the webhosted calculator, I also found a downloadable version, posted by Wisteso, here:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95427

[Lune]

lul

http://i.imgur.com/6Mm6Wmh.jpg

[webrunner5]

The reason nobody REALLY wants Hybrids in a group is it takes a LOT more kills to reach say 2 bars on your XP graph than if the hybrid is not in the group. Then if you are the low end of the level in your group and the Hybrid is at the top level you are further screwed because the mob maybe Light Blue or even green to him. And if more Hybrids come in it is even worse.

I have been in groups in KC with a lot of Hybrids where I got maybe 5% gain in 4 hours playing. It sucked experience wise but was fun.

Sort of applies to the old joke in EQ if 6 Troll SK's grouped together they would loose XP. :eek: Probably not far from the truth if you we the lowest one in it.

[Ciroco]

The reason nobody REALLY wants Hybrids in a group is it takes a LOT more kills to reach say 2 bars on your XP graph than if the hybrid is not in the group. Then if you are the low end of the level in your group and the Hybrid is at the top level you are further screwed because the mob maybe Light Blue or even green to him. And if more Hybrids come in it is even worse.

I have been in groups in KC with a lot of Hybrids where I got maybe 5% gain in 4 hours playing. It sucked experience wise but was fun.

Sort of applies to the old joke in EQ if 6 Troll SK's grouped together they would loose XP. :eek: Probably not far from the truth if you we the lowest one in it.

So many inaccuracies in one post.

[webrunner5]

So many inaccuracies in one post.

Well its true. :D Please do tell us your account.

[Ciroco]

Read the wiki or even the rest of this thread. Adding a hybrid to your group doesn't necessarily slow your exp at all.

Misinformation like this is why we can't get groups.

[Quineloe]

with the exp calculator, the biggest jump I can see is having a troll SK or a halfling warrior as your tank. If you take a troll SK, the experience loss is around 11% for everyone else.
So basically, instead of two yellows, you'd only make 1 yellow 4 blues. If you replace the rogue with a ranger, the drop goes up to 15%, so you'd make 1 yellow and 3,5 blues. Make the shaman a troll, too, you drop by 16%.

How terrible.


On the other hand, if you invite someone to your group who is a few levels higher, you get the same effect. Last night, my low 20s grouped replaced our 22 cleric with a level 30 cleric. THAT resulted in an exp loss of 20% for everyone. Somehow, that didn't bother anyone.

[NextGenesis88]

I care more about the fun I am having than denying people from groups. Now of course it's always good to make sure people are within healthy ranges. Level 30's should not be grouping with level 22's IMO. I mean why is a level 30 joining such low level groups? Damn. Nut up. Or they probably know that they will be getting the good majority of the pie.

You could negate an XP penalty by having the hybrid be a couple levels lower or so, but even then no groups happen where everyone is completely equal like in these calculators. Especially when each race/class can have many variances in penalties or gains. It ain't that serious. Just stay within reason I say and keep the mobs a flowin. With a SHD or PAL other group members will likely take much less damage and less deaths because they are so good at quickly grabbing aggro on the fly and from a distance. There are benefits.

[Quineloe]

according to that tool, that was pretty good exp for him.

And for us, it was either that or having no healer in unrest.

[myriverse]

There was... I had to bookmarked for a long time, but it stopped working a while ago.
http://www.webslinky.com/darkomen/

http://web.archive.org/web/20010804022525/hackersquest.gomp.ch/html/xp/xpchart.html

nm -- those are for solo

[Sarajo]

Every argument about "But they'll take XP away from the group!" is flawed.
Case 1) Group wants a tank. Troll SK applies. Group lies to troll ("NO WE JUST FOUND A HFL WAR SORRY") or tells the 'truth'("You aren't worth it. We lose enough XP when we die, thanks a-hole") and proceeds to stay the course.

First of all, why are you in a group if all you care about is min/maxing XP? I get that for some people, the game is about the outcome-based grind to 60 and nothing else. If you are really this person, you know that grouping is slower than playing a twinked solo class or buying a powerlevel. You have no ground to refuse someone a group just because of some perceived throttling of the XP flow.
Your behinds are just sitting there fear/aggro kiting light blues while you look for a tank. You're not fooling anyone. Or maybe you're half AFK, half spamming /ooc that you're looking for a warrior tank. How would it be "losing" XP to start gaining it, with an actual tank actually tanking? Stop being so boring.

Gaming is a social activity. I know this goes against the stereotype of poopsocking virgins in mom's basement, but all games with more than one player mean you're building bonds of trust by agreeing to a ruleset, building a vast social network, and becoming actual friends. Nowhere was a better environment for this than classic EverQuest. You needed friends to get anything done, and there was going to be downtime at low levels. If you ended up meeting up with the same people over and over in the under-level-10 dungeons, then stuck together through your 30s (the big test), your friendship was unstoppable and enduring. These became the people you'd follow to other MMOs because they were such good players who just "get it", something we don't see in the WoW generation.

The real game of EverQuest is what's going on in between fights. That's the part we most fondly remember. Sure you might remember a wipe or two, or an epic win when your skeleton pet proc'd ykesha when only the necro was left alive and killed the Emperor, but mostly the game was about sitting around getting to know each other and traveling to far off places together in search of fscking adventure that nothing else has ever compared to, or else we wouldn't be back on Project 1999 wondering just what's on the other side of that next hill.

So the game isn't about finding the fastest or most efficient way to get to 60, and it is in fact a huge social activity facilitated by being forced to spend time together and occasionally spend time sitting around with nothing to do but play /gems or talk while you wait for rez sickness to fade. (look at us, talking in a forum right now, having a conversation!)

Saying "I don't want a hybrid in group" is like saying
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdveikLISk1qlevvpo2_500.gif
because you find the prospect of having to talk to another human being with similar interests so insulting that you should really go play a console RPG to avoid the possibility. Stop focusing on what you'll "lose", and think about your GAINZ

[drktmplr12]

I'm under the impression they are leveling together from 0 xp which is why I stated the cleric and sk would level a different rate. They should receive a 50/50 split of xp.. and continue to split down the middle since their total xp is equal. Different story otherwise.

Would be interesting to see exactly how experience is divided up in that case.

[Dangermouse]

Gaming is a social activity. I know this goes against the stereotype of poopsocking virgins in mom's basement, but all games with more than one player mean you're building bonds of trust by agreeing to a ruleset, building a vast social network, and becoming actual friends. Nowhere was a better environment for this than classic EverQuest. You needed friends to get anything done, and there was going to be downtime at low levels. If you ended up meeting up with the same people over and over in the under-level-10 dungeons, then stuck together through your 30s (the big test), your friendship was unstoppable and enduring. These became the people you'd follow to other MMOs because they were such good players who just "get it", something we don't see in the WoW generation.

The real game of EverQuest is what's going on in between fights. That's the part we most fondly remember. Sure you might remember a wipe or two, or an epic win when your skeleton pet proc'd ykesha when only the necro was left alive and killed the Emperor, but mostly the game was about sitting around getting to know each other and traveling to far off places together in search of fscking adventure that nothing else has ever compared to, or else we wouldn't be back on Project 1999 wondering just what's on the other side of that next hill.

THIS, RIGHT HERE

[Jimjam]

I'm under the impression they are leveling together from 0 xp which is why I stated the cleric and sk would level a different rate. They should receive a 50/50 split of xp.. and continue to split down the middle since their total xp is equal. Different story otherwise.

Would be interesting to see exactly how experience is divided up in that case.

I don't think you are right. The way xp is split means they will level up at the same rate (provided they gain xp from no other source, and no one loses xp).

The way I understood it: cleric needs around 100n xp to level, the sk needs around 168n. Once they kill 268n xp of mobs they will both ding. Each level the value of n will change, but the principle remains.

Is this right?

[Dangermouse]

I don't think it is right.

Because xp split in a group is based on the total xp of the characters. If the cleric and SK started together at 0 xp, they'd be getting a 50/50 split from each mob. So the cleric would level after they'd killed 200n, and the SK after 336n.

And the cleric dinging wouldn't change matters, as xp split is based on total xp, not level.

It does seem to be an interesting theoretical situation - if these two characters only ever grouped together, they'd gain xp at exactly the same rate - but the hybrid would level more slowly.

[drktmplr12]

The way xp is split means they will level up at the same rate (provided they gain xp from no other source, and no one loses xp).

Right. Just to be clear:

Exp. split is determined by total accumulated XP. Add the entire group's XP together, then slice the pie up according to how much each member has contributed to the total. Assuming the SK has 168n xp and the Cleric 100n xp (they are exactly the same level) they should continue to level at the same rate (relative to each other). The SK will be getting 62.6% of the pie, leaving the remaining 37.4% for the cleric. The pair (2.68n xp to level) is effectively taking 34% longer (2.68/2.00) than they would being a pair (2.00 xp to level) without a penalty killing merbs at the same rate.

The way I understood it: cleric needs around 100n xp to level, the sk needs around 168n. Once they kill 268n xp of mobs they will both ding. Each level the value of n will change, but the principle remains.

Is this right?

This is correct, but all under the assumption that they are exactly the same level.

If you upset that balance and the SK has, for example twice the xp total compared to the cleric (SK has 200n, cleric has 100n), The xp/kill distribution changes to 66.7% to the SK and 33.3% for the cleric. Once they gain 268n experience, the sk will have absorbed 178n (and leveled) and the cleric will have absorbed 89.2n (did not level)

Add 4 more clerics to the group, all with 100n xp. The SK has 168n xp. Everyone is exactly the same level. The total xp in the group is 668n. The group has total now the distribution looks like this:

Cleric A - 15%
Cleric B - 15%
Cleric C - 15%
Cleric D - 15%
Cleric E - 15%
SK - 25%

Make the SK a warrior with 90n xp. The total xp in the group is 590n:

Cleric A - 16.95%
Cleric B - 16.95%
Cleric C - 16.95%
Cleric D - 16.95%
Cleric E - 16.95%
Warrior - 15.25%

Comparing the situation for Cleric A:

Before: 15%
After: 16.95%
An 11.3% increase in exp rate.

This should prove that people do not level at the same rate unless they are exactly the same level. It also proves that if you add players to the group, the penalty will be split. There is a 11% increase in xp rate for Cleric A when switching from SK to Warrior, meaning hybrid penalty is not negligible for a full group of same level players. This is a a fact. But who would kick a SK for a warrior simply for a 11.3% xp bonus? I wouldn't.. but that's cause I'm not a selfish dick. How do you feel about 11.3% more xp when that warrior dies because he pulled extra mobs and now we have to rez him, wait for sickness, buff, etc when the SK could have just FD. Point being just cause it costs you more, doesn't mean you can ignore the benefits of grouping with hybrids.

edit: Added calculation for other extreme.

Assuming a full group of SKs (168n) and one Cleric (100n)...total xp of 940n:

SK A - 17.9%
SK B - 17.9%
SK C - 17.9%
SK D - 17.9%
SK E - 17.9%
Cleric - 10.64%

Not such a good deal for the cleric.

[Quineloe]

that would be remarkably easy to verify. What happens if a SK and a warrior grouped together at level 1 with no exp earned each.

[Quineloe]

It's something I've only known about on P99. I dug around the forums and tried to find the link. This might be it:

http://stdlib.info/eqxpcalc/

but it doesn't work and doesn't seem to be archived

*edit* In the thread where I found the old link to the webhosted calculator, I also found a downloadable version, posted by Wisteso, here:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95427



What do you need to make that work? It ran on my work computer, but not at home.

[Lune]

What do you need to make that work? It ran on my work computer, but not at home.

Try getting the most up to date version of Java runtime environment if you haven't already. Beyond that, I don't know. I also had trouble running it the first time I tried, back when that thread was made.

[baalzy]

drktmplr12,
Warriors get a 10% xp bonus (halfling warriors get even higher), so that throws your numbers slightly off.

Otherwise, great post.

[Dirtnap]

I don't know what you guys are smoking, you can obviously tell from the way exp works that group members will not level at the same rate.

The higher the gap in your levels, the more exp the higher level person takes. The exp penalty just makes them take more of the experience.

You can be grouped in HHK for example and have an SK tank taking 60% of the xp for himself, and he would out level everyone else because he gets 2-3% per kill while everyone else is getting less than 1%.

EDIT: This happened to me on my bard, and the exp was extremely slow for the entire group except the SK, who ended up leveling too high for out lowest member.

[Lune]

I don't know what you guys are smoking, you can obviously tell from the way exp works that group members will not level at the same rate.

The higher the gap in your levels, the more exp the higher level person takes. The exp penalty just makes them take more of the experience.

You can be grouped in HHK for example and have an SK tank taking 60% of the xp for himself, and he would out level everyone else because he gets 2-3% per kill while everyone else is getting less than 1%.

That's now how it works, though. You should actually read the thread. The SK is taking 60% of the xp for himself, because it takes 60% of the XP for the SK to get the same 1% everyone else is getting.

[Juhstin]

These numbers hurt my head. Just group with whoever and enjoy the journey

[drktmplr12]

drktmplr12,
Warriors get a 10% xp bonus (halfling warriors get even higher), so that throws your numbers slightly off.

Otherwise, great post.

Thanks for pointing that out, I updated the numbers. And thanks for the compliment! :D

[drktmplr12]

You can be grouped in HHK for example and have an SK tank taking 60% of the xp for himself, and he would out level everyone else because he gets 2-3% per kill while everyone else is getting less than 1%.

This is absolutely false.

[webrunner5]

This is absolutely false.

You win a Cigar. You are right. Crazy people.

[Dirtnap]

I've done my own tests and this is the way it is. You can sit there and watch your experience bar in a duo, and the person with more exp (either by level or penalty) will take more exp, and will leave the other person behind in levels over time.

Go check it out in game over the course of just 10 mobs. You will see that I am right.

[Quineloe]

Your statement would indicate that when both start with an empty exp bar, your SK would ding when the other person only made 2 yellows. I don't think you actually tested that.

[innocent51]

This is absolutely incorrect.

It is mathematically correct. Bigger xp bar = drains more xp on the split. That technically means an even con troll SK will take more of the share than a hobbit warrior, so you will take less xp.
Every mob will give the same xp, hybrid penalty only means the character with xp malus will take more so mathematically "sharing" his malus.

Like drktmplr12 said, you generally don't see any difference when your tank is a troll SK or a hobbit warrior (maybe a 10 levels higher SK makes you notice) but last time in MM I had a good group of Ranger/Bard/Ikky Monk/Troll SK and I as cleric and it REALLY was slower.
But nice people are always nice :)

[Glain]

To male up for your xp loss you have to work 68% harder on keeping pulls steady and fast which is better than 50% of tanks lvling up

[Quineloe]

To male up for your xp loss you have to work 68% harder on keeping pulls steady and fast which is better than 50% of tanks lvling up

No, as explained above, you only lower the experience the other members of the group get by 11%, so you only need to work those 11% harder to justify your hybrid penalty (assuming full group)



Like drktmplr12 said, you generally don't see any difference when your tank is a troll SK or a hobbit warrior (maybe a 10 levels higher SK makes you notice) but last time in MM I had a good group of Ranger/Bard/Ikky Monk/Troll SK and I as cleric and it REALLY was slower.
But nice people are always nice :)

were they also higher level? because at same levels, you'd have received 14.5% exp per kill, which makes it sound like the group wasn't that good.

[innocent51]

Slightly but my "normal" friend group is rogue/war/monk/enc with no malus race (and no bonus).

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

That is absolutely incorrect
It is mathematically correct.
You failed at understanding what I declared to be incorrect. iecompte said that a troll sk caused his party to get 68% less xp for each kill before the xp is split. That is a completely inaccurate statement. Each players' share is based on their total xp, nothing else. The amount of xp the mob gives doesn't ever change based on the class or race of the pc killing it.

[nndiro]

just curious... how far advanced velius is the xp penalty removed?

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

just curious... how far advanced velius is the xp penalty removed?

On live it was about 1 month into velious... and it only removed class based penalties, not racial penalties.

[Dirtnap]

I can't explain the math behind what I am saying, because it SHOULDN'T be that way. It doesn't change the fact that this is how it works.

Taking a couple levels 1 characters wouldn't show this, because they would have the same total exp gained. The problem comes up when you have someone with a much larger total exp gain, like with a troll SK paired with a halfling warrior.

The SK takes the majority of the split, and will see higher % gains on his exp bar than the warrior will.

Go give it a try, team up with someone and check your exp totals. Kill 10 mobs and then see if you both went up the same %.

You will see that you wont go up the same % even though the math says you should.

[Danth]

On live it was about 1 month into velious... and it only removed class based penalties, not racial penalties.

Note that the racial penalties are also made self-only at the same time, so groups shouldn't care about them.

Danth

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

I can't explain the math behind what I am saying, because it SHOULDN'T be that way. It doesn't change the fact that this is how it works...

Go give it a try, team up with someone and check your exp totals. Kill 10 mobs and then see if you both went up the same %.

You will see that you wont go up the same % even though the math says you should.
Well, to be fair, I should have disclaimed that I was describing how xp worked on live. Way back when, I was contacted by server staff and shared my research and info with them. I have not ever systematically tried to verify the mechanics on P99.

[Ofaelol]

I rolled a Half-Elf bard as my first p99 toon. Should I be worried about not being able to get exp groups?

[fadetree]

If you actually play a bard well : No
If you suck : Yes
If you swarm kite to 50 : Yes, but you probably won't care until then.

[webrunner5]

If you actually play a bard well : No
If you suck : Yes
If you swarm kite to 50 : Yes, but you probably won't care until then.

Pretty much sums it up. :p

[Lune]

I rolled a Half-Elf bard as my first p99 toon. Should I be worried about not being able to get exp groups?

No. People on the forums overstate the anti-hybrid bias.

The only time I've been rejected from groups specifically due to class hate was when I played a ranger, and that was only when the people didn't know me.

In two cases I remember, it caused an argument in the group about whether to invite me, one of which led to a breakup and reformation.

You'll be fine as a bard.