Fellow wizards, how to remain an asset in groups?

[Aborath]

I know, I know; wizards should be quadding. But what about those times when all the good quad locations are camped, or you just feel like grouping instead? How do you make yourselves an asset to the group--and not a fifth wheel. I ask because this is the way that I often feel when grouped. Sure, I nuke, root, stun, etc. as required, but eventually my mana tank hits "e" and I'm forced to sit and med, nuke once in a while, but otherwise be perpetually at 10% mana. Meanwhile, waves of melee damage are just scrolling by while I look on in quiet envy. So does anyone have tips on what I might do extend my usefulness? For example, how should grouping wizards nuke? Just spam our most mana-efficient nuke 1-2 a fight (ex., Coinflag, IC)?

[Kazi]

First off, I try to never go below ~40% mana because the true power in a wizard is the ability to nuke down fast. If you get a few too many adds, it's invaluable CC in the absence of a mezzer. Root adds. Make use of Immobilize. Also, wizards can pull tricky mobs like SKs or the top of the spec tower in Oasis with Eye of Zomm. It's unfortunate that rogues can just spam backstab and out DPS a wizard in their sleep, but we do have utility.

[phacemeltar]

ive been thinking about this and i have come to the conclusion that the appropriate role is to DS the tank and nuke down large groups. by this i dont necessarily mean to AE them, but instead to save your mana for when a bad pull could turn into a potential wipe.

when your tank is expecting a fight to last for 5 mins but you end it in 45s, then that opens up the ability to pull another camp/more mobs.

[Kazi]

It's interesting you brought up the DS as I had that question tonight. I was DS'ing him, but unless I missed a spell or two, it only does 2 dmg. Not sure if it was even worth it.

[Aborath]

It's interesting you brought up the DS as I had that question tonight. I was DS'ing him, but unless I missed a spell or two, it only does 2 dmg. Not sure if it was even worth it.

I thought this exactly. We get the level 4 O'Keils Radiation, and don't get an upgrade until Velious. According to the wiki, OKR does a max of 10 points at level ten. Is this amount of damage even worthwhile? I mean, a tank gets hit, what, eight to ten times (less?) over the course of a fight when you're chain pulling blues. That's one-hundred points of damage for fifteen mana, a dynamite ratio, I'll admit... hmm, maybe I'll start doing this.

First off, I try to never go below ~40% mana because the true power in a wizard is the ability to nuke down fast. If you get a few too many adds, it's invaluable CC in the absence of a mezzer. Root adds. Make use of Immobilize. Also, wizards can pull tricky mobs like SKs or the top of the spec tower in Oasis with Eye of Zomm. It's unfortunate that rogues can just spam backstab and out DPS a wizard in their sleep, but we do have utility.

That's a really good point; always have a significant mana reserve for emergency burn-down situations. As far as Eye of Zomm goes... I have never messed with it, though I recall wizards pulling with it in classic.

In short: Damage shield the tank; have roots/stuns ready to go, and be sparring with nukage = valuable wizard :).

Great advice, folks. I understand that I'll never have the output of a rogue (or warrior, or monk, or... ), but it's good to know that there are effective ways of grouping as a wizard. Man, I've been a slacker wizard all this time :p.

[fishingme]

In groups on my wizard I'm able to use my highest damage nuke one to two times per mob and still stay above 50% mana. Personally I prefer to use my stun line nukes over just my normal direct damage nuke, I find that the more an enemy is stunned the less damage the tank takes. One of my large nukes takes out about 35% of a mobs health (pit mob in mistmoore, the finely plated women) I don't tend to nuke until mob is 50% hp. I tend to keep getting invited back to groups but I think people are just warming up to wizards again. Which makes me kind of sad because this sit aggro makes me want to strip my wizzy and put his gear on my mage hehe. Then I remember that my Enchanter can charm a pet that deals at least 2x the damage of a mage pet and I get sad about it. But then I remember the competition for wizard gear in raids is less than mages but mage pets look terribly fantastic.

[Raavak]

Wizard can be CC and even pull if wily enough.

[Buriedpast]

and be sparring with nukage = valuable wizard :).

.

Your one, class defining job. ....


Wow. You fail.

Ok good wizard 101:
Bind sight is your most powerful spell. Abuse it. Know exactly whats happening, chain sight around zones for pullers, let them know named are up, repops etc. You can easily do your job with assist/tab/nuke/sit/combat log without watching a fight. Bind sight is my favorite spell in the game, its nearly as good as having SEQ, and combined with fraps is f*cking amazing for catching cheaters and intentional trainers.

Evacuate is your 2nd most powerful spell. Who cares if you end up in WK instead of with a dead cleric in crypt.

Stuns are amazing on wizards. Nothing should gate, CH, charm or ice comet, ever.

Your CC is incredible. Stuns, flux staff, atols/bonds. A chanter charming with a good wizard will never take a hit from their pet. Take the load off chanters/clerics by CC'ing. A pull inc with an extra caster and GC to blow means pre cc'd mobs. Be proactive.

Your DS is the most useless inefficient shit in the world, I dont know who ever has a spell gem for that crap.

Having reserve mana to blow shit up is ok, but lets be honest. when shit is hitting the fan 9x out of 10 you are better off AE snaring 2 or 3 times and kiting while you or someone else roots mobs.

[Buriedpast]

Also eyes, eye splitting is excellent. Scout, pull, have pretargets selected to root and root with cycle previous target key.

[Buriedpast]

Also, a wizard DPSing conventionally does far less than a monk, pulling, while letting the monk do nothing but dps once a camp is split is leagues more efficient.

[Pullyn]

Wizard can be CC and even pull if wily enough.

This. The most fun I've had playing my wizard is from playing wrecklessly, CCIng, pulling etc.

[Buriedpast]

Reckless and proactive are two very different things. An assertive player changes the group for the better. This points to clerics, bards, chanters, wizards and druids who are typically reactive and submissive class roles. Done right, it isn't reckless, its very efficient.

[thieros]

Stuns stuns stuns. Use your stun line to interrupt casters in groups were stuns and pushes may be lacking. interrupt those heals and big boy dd's!

Edit: dang, between the time i wrote this and the time i submitted it, this thread filled up nicely. everything they said above me!

[Lojik]

I know, I know; wizards should be quadding. But what about those times when all the good quad locations are camped

Scout out different quad locations. This is an emulated server, with a peak population of 1/2 that on live. There are exp spots open you just gotta look for em. DL, BW, Dwarves, Spirocs, Tigers in OT, Bloodgills, and I'm sure there are others for your level. Wizard is really specialized for quadding, aoe groups, raid bosses.

But what about those times when... you just feel like grouping instead? How do you make yourselves an asset to the group--and not a fifth wheel

Play another class. Even if you do all the stuff Motec is saying and do it perfectly, there are still a handful of classes that will fill that group slot better than you if they are an average player or better. If we were on a classic timeline then wizard would be more valuable in groups, but since we've been in kunark for 3 years and classic for 2 years before that or however long it has been, most characters have pretty good gear and wizads don't really benefit groups with better gear, as their DPS won't improve, unless they have epic +manastone or manna robe, or solists robe. However, if they do get rid of duck interupting and put in spell gem refresh on clickies that would be a different story.

[Buriedpast]

This^

" there are still a handful of classes that will fill that group slot better than you if they are an average player or better"

It is that simple. Well worded and succinct sir.

But a wizard played well to the extent of the class is capable of is involving, entertaining, and rewarding to do so. At most a selfish endeavour. While other classes do not need to justify their existence, a wizard does. However, the group would be better just inviting a ranger.

Come velious, things do not change either. However soloing and duo opportunities present themselves, and in more popoular spots with more popular port locations so that Clarity bumming becomes less of a hinderence (to the wiz!).

Stick with it, at 60 the class is extremely rewarding, with huge opportunity to minmax, a large assortment of equipment you can swap and change per encounter, and extremely precise play to be effective at your role. Like anything though, get out of it what you put in to it.

[Lojik]

This^

" there are still a handful of classes that will fill that group slot better than you if they are an average player or better"

It is that simple. Well worded and succinct sir.

But a wizard played well to the extent of the class is capable of is involving, entertaining, and rewarding to do so. At most a selfish endeavour. While other classes do not need to justify their existence, a wizard does. However, the group would be better just inviting a ranger.

Come velious, things do not change either. However soloing and duo opportunities present themselves, and in more popoular spots with more popular port locations so that Clarity bumming becomes less of a hinderence (to the wiz!).

Stick with it, at 60 the class is extremely rewarding, with huge opportunity to minmax, a large assortment of equipment you can swap and change per encounter, and extremely precise play to be effective at your role. Like anything though, get out of it what you put in to it.

Wizard is actually a great duo partner with rogues or monks, bards too for pbaoe kiting i think. Standard xp group...not so much.

[Buriedpast]

Wiz and bard is probably the highest xp per hour duo in the game. Right to 60 it's just amazing.

And a solo 59+ bard can PL a wiz in KC basement fairly hardcore.

[Aborath]

Cool, page two. Some solid gold advice in this thread. Now to find a bard to duo to sixty with.

[Vexenu]

Wasn't the Wiz/Bard duo dependent on low HP kiting to be effective? (i.e. Bard agros huge swarm while low HP to keep full agro, runs mobs through Wiz while he PBAOEs). As far as I know this was supposed to have been nerfed.

Is there some other method that is equally as effective? Or does that still work the same way?

[Kazi]

I wouldn't let the min/maxers sway you from enjoying a full group.

[Aborath]

Wasn't the Wiz/Bard duo dependent on low HP kiting to be effective? (i.e. Bard agros huge swarm while low HP to keep full agro, runs mobs through Wiz while he PBAOEs). As far as I know this was supposed to have been nerfed.

Is there some other method that is equally as effective? Or does that still work the same way?

I'm not sure if this is equivalent, but a guild bard PL'd me for a couple levels by just grabbing a zone of mobs and running them in a tight circle around me, while I PBAoE'd the mobs. Seemed to work fine, other than my running out of mana. I would do something similar with a bard of my level, only we'd be talking three or four mobs, not three hundred.

Not sure if this would work, but I'm anxious to give it a try.

[Buriedpast]

I'm not sure if this is equivalent, but a guild bard PL'd me for a couple levels by just grabbing a zone of mobs and running them in a tight circle around me, while I PBAoE'd the mobs. Seemed to work fine, other than my running out of mana. I would do something similar with a bard of my level, only we'd be talking three or four mobs, not three hundred.

Not sure if this would work, but I'm anxious to give it a try.


This. No need for low HP kiting.

Just ae snare/slow for aggro and unleash hell.

The most memorable doing this was with Kets (hello #1 bard on server by such a huge margin its not funny). AE'ing all of KC basement, IN verix's room, 2man. Just amazing.