Hot Patch: Monday, February 24th, 2014

[Rogean]

Code
Haynar: Fixed the missing, miss messages from combat.
Haynar: Fixed lich breaking invis.
Haynar: Attacking another mob will no longer break sneak.
Haynar: Fixed sitting aggro.
Haynar: Added proximity aggro for undead.
Haynar: Pathing fixes for transition from noded area to open area.

[Lagorto]

Prexus be praised!

[Sirviver]

Thank you, as always!

[DarthKraze]

Thanks!

[Sirken]

pras ninja patch

[Niples]

nice job indeed

[hoots123]

im getting way more sit aggro now.. and not doing a single thing. i never noticed it before this patch.

[Teako]

I'll be so happy when the update fixing the monk epic particle rolls out.

but for now.. this'll do. (:

[Juhstin]

Pras for sitting aggro

[Callon]

Hip Hip Hooray!

Thanks again Rogean for everything

[Vlak]

Stupid question time: this being a Hot Patch, does that mean I have to re-download the patch file? I downloaded the .zip last night and just put it all in my EQ folder before reading about the new code added today.

[Garmr]

aaaahh thank you

[Man0warr]

Stupid question time: this being a Hot Patch, does that mean I have to re-download the patch file? I downloaded the .zip last night and just put it all in my EQ folder before reading about the new code added today.

No, this is most likely all server side changes.

[SwordNboard]

Thanks Haynar!

[odiecat99]

Derpaderpa Good worka worka.

[Juhstin]

No, this is most likely all server side changes.

Correct.

[AmukTZ]

So for those of us at work. How is the sitting aggro fix?

[Vlak]

No, this is most likely all server side changes.

Thanks for the answer!

Also, thanks to Rogean and the other devs who work on this stuff for all of us! All Hail the IT Lords of EQ!... or something

[scarletghost]

/cheer

[jarshale]

So does sitting get you more aggro or less now? I'm not sure how it was broken before.

[Splorf22]

Is there any way we could get even a small amount of testing for these things? I mean things like 'I never miss in combat' and 'sit aggro is more than tash' aren't exactly difficult to find. If the staff whipped up some toons and played on a test server for 30 minutes before releasing a patch this kind of stuff would come out immediately.

[Wrench]

Is there any way we could get even a small amount of testing for these things? I mean things like 'I never miss in combat' and 'sit aggro is more than tash' aren't exactly difficult to find. If the staff whipped up some toons and played on a test server for 30 minutes before releasing a patch this kind of stuff would come out immediately.

newsflash: your playing on the test server

[fastboy21]

newsflash: your playing on the test server

oh snap.

[Haynar]

Is there any way we could get even a small amount of testing for these things? I mean things like 'I never miss in combat' and 'sit aggro is more than tash' aren't exactly difficult to find. If the staff whipped up some toons and played on a test server for 30 minutes before releasing a patch this kind of stuff would come out immediately.

Thanks for your insight in providing a solution for this issue.

Haynar

[Humerox]

Thanks for the quick action guys! Rock on!

[pharmakos]

Is there any way we could get even a small amount of testing for these things? I mean things like 'I never miss in combat' and 'sit aggro is more than tash' aren't exactly difficult to find. If the staff whipped up some toons and played on a test server for 30 minutes before releasing a patch this kind of stuff would come out immediately.

i'd be willing to play on an official P99 Test server.

[Nuggie]

So does sitting get you more aggro or less now? I'm not sure how it was broken before.

I believe they changed it so you got more aggro. but it came out to too much. so they toned it down a bit. I remember getting raped in PoFear trying to med during pulls on live, back in the day.

edit - also, this is not the first time lich has started breaking invis. those code gremlins hate us.

[Buellen]

Hello everyone ran some test just tonight.

Class : enchanter pet: animation test area: Qeynos Aquaducts

Prior to first patch adding increase sit agro I would pull with weaken spell and let animation attack mob till it was at 10 to 15 % then i could sit freely without pulling the mob of my pet.


after first patch adding sit agro. Same mob same spell to pull i would have to wait till animation did 30 percent of mob health to be able to sit freely without puling mob of pet.

After 2nd patch last night same mob same spell to pull. I would have to wait till mob was reduced in health by 16 % and could then sit freely.

Also a very cool thing is mob now has to have line of site to gain agro from sitting to early. If my mob is around corner and being tanked by my animation and i sit it will not rush over to attack me if pet has not done 16% of mob health yet. If I am in line of sight of mob and i sit to early then mob will come over to beat on me.

Read some post that people where still getting agro from sitting from mobs not in line of sight. wonder if those zone have some issues with geometry not blocking line of sight.

[Vindor]

Why fix something that is not broken just for the sake of classicness. Are you going to go back to the meditate in your spellbook too ? or force people to play on 10go hard drive ?

[Ihova]

The aggro from sitting is still broke.

I damage mob with bow for pull, casters are sitting in camp, but still get
aggro even though they have not cast anything.
If i bring mob to close it bee lines for them (and im talking 10 feet close).
Simple spells, (slow/snare/heal) are still gaining aggro after mob has been beat
down to 80 percent.

Is sit aggro accumlating or what?
Example, I pull mob, dps down to 90 percent of its health, cleric who was sitting
stand cast heal (small heal), gains aggro immediately. This is at low lvl mind you but
still. As a warrior, with this patch, it has made the game almost unplayable.

Sit aggro is classic, but what we have here is not.

[Asap]

Why fix something that is not broken just for the sake of classicness. Are you going to go back to the meditate in your spellbook too ? or force people to play on 10go hard drive ?

Yes actually...

[Tecmos Deception]

Why fix something that is not broken just for the sake of classicness

Cause that's pretty much the point of the server.

[Juhstin]

Cause that's pretty much the point of the server.

[Haynar]

Hello everyone ran some test just tonight.

Class : enchanter pet: animation test area: Qeynos Aquaducts

Prior to first patch adding increase sit agro I would pull with weaken spell and let animation attack mob till it was at 10 to 15 % then i could sit freely without pulling the mob of my pet.


after first patch adding sit agro. Same mob same spell to pull i would have to wait till animation did 30 percent of mob health to be able to sit freely without puling mob of pet.

After 2nd patch last night same mob same spell to pull. I would have to wait till mob was reduced in health by 16 % and could then sit freely.

Also a very cool thing is mob now has to have line of site to gain agro from sitting to early. If my mob is around corner and being tanked by my animation and i sit it will not rush over to attack me if pet has not done 16% of mob health yet. If I am in line of sight of mob and i sit to early then mob will come over to beat on me.

Read some post that people where still getting agro from sitting from mobs not in line of sight. wonder if those zone have some issues with geometry not blocking line of sight.
With no significant actions done to mob, would like to get pet hate generation so you can sit fairly quick after engaging. Somewhere in 2-5% range of damage done to mob by pet.

Haynar

[Haynar]

And if we could easily force looking at spell books to med, thats what casters would be doing.

H

[nndiro]

The aggro from sitting is still broke.

I damage mob with bow for pull, casters are sitting in camp, but still get
aggro even though they have not cast anything.
If i bring mob to close it bee lines for them (and im talking 10 feet close).
Simple spells, (slow/snare/heal) are still gaining aggro after mob has been beat
down to 80 percent.

Is sit aggro accumlating or what?
Example, I pull mob, dps down to 90 percent of its health, cleric who was sitting
stand cast heal (small heal), gains aggro immediately. This is at low lvl mind you but
still. As a warrior, with this patch, it has made the game almost unplayable.

Sit aggro is classic, but what we have here is not.

dude, my cle always got almost instant aggro if i healed while in combat. that is why i did not heal while mob engaged unless the players life was in danger. if not, would heal after the fight. I can not tell if now there's far much worse, as i haven't played my cle since the new patch, but players need to learn the tricks of their trade or get owned.

[scarletghost]

And if we could easily force looking at spell books to med, thats what casters would be doing.

H

Thank God, I thought I was the Only one who when they say the Love something they mean it , even if there are Negative Consequences.

More Kunark Plz :)

And my 2 Mains are Both Casters

[odiecat99]

And if we could easily force looking at spell books to med, thats what casters would be doing.

H

No thx.

pet hate fix Plz

[Nirgon]

Liking everything I see from Haynar posts

[Vellaen]

dude, my cle always got almost instant aggro if i healed while in combat. that is why i did not heal while mob engaged unless the players life was in danger. if not, would heal after the fight. I can not tell if now there's far much worse, as i haven't played my cle since the new patch, but players need to learn the tricks of their trade or get owned.

In classic I never had issues healing mid-fight in a typical single-group grinding situation, unless I dropped a big heal like Superior or Complete very early on. Since I used to play a game of "how low can the warrior get before CHeal lands", I'd typically throw on Celestial if I needed to buy some time after a pull, and that one was almost no threat at all.

[Nirgon]

Sitting aggro is more than a single bow shot. Seriously you are claiming "broken" over that? Lawd.

[Skydash]

Mobs would never start attacking other players when I pulled them with my monk on live during this period. Even body pulls would not stop and attack sitting players.

The only time sitting mattered is when you had a bard in the group. Otherwise, sitting never generated this type of agro.

Just because you cannot remember the past, doesn't give you a right to stomp all over the future!

[Nirgon]

I charmed Sirran the Lunatic all the time with my enchanter etc

YAWOK

[Danth]

dude, my cle always got almost instant aggro if i healed while in combat.

If this was your experience, you were grouping with some woefully incompetent tanks.


Danth

[odiecat99]

If this was your experience, you were grouping with some woefully incompetent tanks.


Danth

Or low level warriors with turrible non procing weps?

[Haynar]

Mobs would never start attacking other players when I pulled them with my monk on live during this period. Even body pulls would not stop and attack sitting players.

The only time sitting mattered is when you had a bard in the group. Otherwise, sitting never generated this type of agro.

Just because you cannot remember the past, doesn't give you a right to stomp all over the future!
Were you the tank too? Or were mobs being tagged by an sk or pal on incoming?

Too many details missing.

Body pulls almost guaranted a sitter getting beat on, unless they were out of the way enough.

[Vellaen]

Or low level warriors with turrible non procing weps?

White damage was better for threat on live. As a warrior during Velious, I had no problem holding aggro with a Sebilite Croaking Dirk and an offhand Frostbringer. While the axe had a nice DD/debuff proc, I used it for the ratio and the AC, and didn't make any effort towards stacking Dex.

[baalzy]

With no significant actions done to mob, would like to get pet hate generation so you can sit fairly quick after engaging. Somewhere in 2-5% range of damage done to mob by pet.

Haynar

What about significant action but not sitting? Lots of evidence has been provided to demonstrate that pet hate generation should be able to overcome 2-3 detrimental spells being cast on a mob at the very start of the fight and the pet either maintaining agro or very quickly regaining it.

[Haynar]

What about significant action but not sitting? Lots of evidence has been provided to demonstrate that pet hate generation should be able to overcome 2-3 detrimental spells being cast on a mob at the very start of the fight and the pet either maintaining agro or very quickly regaining it.
And as long as pets can be adjusted without them becoming tanks for raids, they will.

[whitebandit]

And as long as pets can be adjusted without them becoming tanks for raids, they will.

Praises! (death to pras)

[Asap]

And as long as pets can be adjusted without them becoming tanks for raids, they will.

What's the best way to implement this change? Max 4 pets per mob?

[nilbog]

What's the best way to implement this change? Max 4 pets per mob?

When we used to kill Dain with 6 mages, the actual caster could perform no action. No pet heals, buffs, anything, or Dain would kill the mage that tried. fwiw.

[Asap]

When we used to kill Dain with 6 mages, the actual caster could perform no action. No pet heals, buffs, anything, or Dain would kill the mage that tried. fwiw.

So if pet tanking raid mobs is classic, why was it nerfed? This is a legit question, not trolling 1 bit.

Edit- you don't have to answer, you don't owe me or anyone any explanation, it's your project after all

[nilbog]

So if pet tanking raid mobs is classic, why was it nerfed? This is a legit question, not trolling 1 bit.

There's a difference in pet tanking raid mobs, and what I said. I wanted to point out that the pets alone would be okay, but as soon as any PC attempted anything to benefit the pets, or detrimental to the npc in any way, the npc would kill the PC.

I don't want to convolute this process at all, just providing some historical data. NPC seemed to always want to choose a PC if it at all possible.

[Asap]

There's a difference in pet tanking raid mobs, and what I said. I wanted to point out that the pets alone would be okay, but as soon as any PC attempted anything to benefit the pets, or detrimental to the npc in any way, the npc would kill the PC.

Via summoning or just straight up instant aggro?

[Buellen]

With no significant actions done to mob, would like to get pet hate generation so you can sit fairly quick after engaging. Somewhere in 2-5% range of damage done to mob by pet.

Haynar

for completeness sake ill run same test with a thrown dagger as that is far less hate generation than weakness spell. ill post it later when i get it done.

[Buellen]

Hello


Just finished my test on using thrown dagger instead of pulling with weaknes like in my previous post.

zone: qeynos aquducts

Class: enchanter Pet : animation

Pulled mob with a thrown dagger with a missed throw i pulled mob back till animation engaged. I could sit down immediately in mob line of sight without puling agro from my animation.

More info:

Pulled mob with thrown dagger hit for max 10 pts damage. pulled mob back and pet engaged. Had to wait mob was 5 percent to sit down without pulling mob of pet.

[Teerian]

There's a difference in pet tanking raid mobs, and what I said. I wanted to point out that the pets alone would be okay, but as soon as any PC attempted anything to benefit the pets, or detrimental to the npc in any way, the npc would kill the PC.

I don't want to convolute this process at all, just providing some historical data. NPC seemed to always want to choose a PC if it at all possible.

I'm not sure what era of EQ you're thinking of, but this was not the case for all the way up to Planes of Power at the very least. Beyond that, my memory gets fuzzy due to my slowly losing interest in the game. I was a magician from day 1 of EQ all the way up to the end of Omens of War. I joined a raid guild that ended up becoming the top guild of the server, and I was present for just about every raid done up until GoD/OoW. The last time I checked my mage's /played before quitting, it was (sadly) around the 800 days mark. I don't say this in an attempt to brag but rather to express that I've been around and know a fair amount about the class.

Due to having some of the best gear a mage could have at my disposal, I often went out of my way to solo (and sometimes duo with a warrior friend) targets that most would have deemed impossible or at least not worth the risk. I often succeeded. I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that pet aggro here on p99 is absolutely wrong. It's not even CLOSE to correct. If live aggro during late Kunark/early Velious was like p99, I would have failed many of my solo attempts. I likely would not have even stuck with the magician class. I can understand the desire to keep pets from being raid tanks and such, but there are other solutions to that issue besides pissing all over the one class who relies on pets for ALL of their defense and a fair chunk of their damage.

Countless times I chain healed pets and nuked in the same manner I would with a PC tank without stealing aggro from my pet, and even chain-casted pets and had them - newly summoned - gain aggro off of me despite actions taken previously assuming I didn't unload half a bar of mana trying to fry my target. Unfortunately, I can't back my knowledge up with any kind of visual proof as I didn't record things back then (nor do I now really), and I doubt random screenshots showing my pet tanking while I cast would be sufficient proof. Then again, all you've done so far is pulled from your own memories as well. I have to say, though, yours aren't even close to the same experiences I had. Only reasons I could think of that you would have pulled aggro from a tanking pet would be the following:

A) Standing too close to the target. I doubt this one is the case. The way this particular mechanic works on 99 is how it worked on live. If PC and pet are in melee range, NPC will always target PC first.

B) Sitting too quickly after one too many nukes/heals putting you on the threshold of stealing aggro.

C) Healing/nuking too early. As with a PC tank, pets needed time to get some damage in. Combined with B seemed to be a mistake a lot of mages made.

D) Pet taunt turned off maybe?

E) Wonky NPCs. Some targets just behaved oddly. I recall Dain being one of these, so that might be why you had issues with him in particular.

If none of those, I'm not sure why you had issues. All I know is any aggro issues I ever had were usually brought on my my own lack of judgement rather than mechanics. Here on this server, it's the opposite. The current pet aggro mechanic makes the magician class completely unenjoyable, especially when combined with the Kunark era pet experience sharing crap that, like racial/class penalties, should have never have been classic to begin with. If I have to dig up those old screenshots to convince you to fix it, I'll be glad to to exactly that.

[bartly]

There's a difference in pet tanking raid mobs, and what I said. I wanted to point out that the pets alone would be okay, but as soon as any PC attempted anything to benefit the pets, or detrimental to the npc in any way, the npc would kill the PC.

I don't want to convolute this process at all, just providing some historical data. NPC seemed to always want to choose a PC if it at all possible.

Wasn't it hard capped at any more than 4 people on the hate list and pets were totally ignored?

I know I could pet tank with my enchanter and druid, solo or duo, but in say a full group you had to have an actual tank. Pets couldn't hold a mobs attention with 4 or more people unless the mob was rooted.

I didn't know you could get around the restriction with a group of pet casters who just stayed off the hate list.

[nilbog]

@Teerian:
That's how Dain Frostreaver worked, in probably early Luclin, on eqlive, with 6 mage pets attacking him. That's it. I don't have some type of agenda with it, and went as far as to say I didn't want to convolute the process. Could have been because he's a raid npc, because of the rule of 4, or who knows what. I posted it fwiw.

@bartly:
That seems like a good explanation of what I was describing.

[Yoite]

posted this in bug forums but posting again here for more view

did some testing again tonight. I did each of these multiple times to prove repeatability before coming here to post.

case 1 - Body pulling.

can body pull and bring mob into camp. Before mob has a chance to attack sitters I would engage with a taunt, bash, and attack. Even when taunt worked (got you will not evade me soandso) and even when bash landed and stunned them, and even when both of those worked and mob was attacked by my melee dmg before bash stun wore off, the mob will still attack sitter before returning to me.

In this case where the taunt landed, and then I was the only one to perform actions after mob was taunted and while it was stunned with bash, I should have been at the top of agro via taunt and well above anyone else with the bash and attack since no one had done anything to the mobs at this time.

Case 2 - Attacking mob with melee attack and bash.

In this case i would bash and then attack the mob with 1 melee round before bringing into camp. In most cases this would still result in the mob attacking ALL sitting players before coming back to me.

The only exception was if my bash and attack round did enough dmg to lower the mob past appox 85% hp.

case 3 - attacking mob for several rounds before pulling into camp.

If i soloed the mob to 50% of hp before then pulling back to group, it would stay on me and not attack any sitters.
If i soloed the mob to 85% of hp before then pulling back to group it may or may not attack sitters.
If i soloed the mob to 95% of hp before then pulling back to group it would still attack sitters before returning to me.

While this is by no means a viable way to pull as you will usually die trying to solo a mob before bringing in I was able to test this using a twink that could take the hits and do enough dmg.


This shows a few things to me. One is the sit agro is still way to high, on live a single attack was enough to hold the mob on you over sit agro. remember agro from melee attacks does not matter if you miss or hit. The other is sit agro is either so high or is not taking into consideration taunt or something else weird. I cant understand how the mobs are still attacking sitters even after a successful taunt, bash stun, and melee round.


i hope this helps =)

[Nuggie]

This shows a few things to me. One is the sit agro is still way to high, on live a single attack was enough to hold the mob on you over sit agro.

From my memory, which is admittedly weak, I find this innacurate. casters/healers used to get hit during pulls if they were sitting when mobs came into camp. Whether they wre pulled with a bow, spells, or proxim aggro. On live I played a paladin, if I pulled with a stun the casters were getting up, one way or another, when mobs entered the camp.

But like I said, my memory is weak.

[Danth]

On live I played a paladin, if I pulled with a stun the casters were getting up, one way or another, when mobs entered the camp.

That's not the best way to do it. On live back then, as on P1999, the first attack on a mob generated miniscule aggro. Hence pulling with a high-aggro spell as a tank was a waste. Aggro the mob first, then hit it with a high hate ability. Better yet, have someone else pull and simply peel the target off once it reaches camp.

For what its worth, when fighting random junk since the patch, my wife's Shaman can be as careless as usual and we don't notice anything different relative to a week ago. As per our norm, I'll pull something, and she can Malo it as soon as it's in range, then spam Turgur's--multiple times if necessary--followed maybe by Cripple and spamming her damage over time spells until they stick. Then she'll sit down three feet from the thing and not get touched, same as pre-patch. That's just my own experience, but it hardly seems like the end of the world. Just one more thing to be aware of, really, even before any additional tuning we may see.

Danth

[Yoite]

there doesnt seem to be any change in sit agro as far as once the mob is on you. I can still hold agro with a single flash of light in most cases. once its on me, its on me and the group can cast away. But what seems to be off is the mobs attacking on inc.

I posted so more stuff in the bug thread regarding intercepting the mobs with bash and attacks while in sit agro range but before they can reach the sitter.

[Teerian]

@Teerian:
That's how Dain Frostreaver worked, in probably early Luclin, on eqlive, with 6 mage pets attacking him. That's it. I don't have some type of agenda with it, and went as far as to say I didn't want to convolute the process. Could have been because he's a raid npc, because of the rule of 4, or who knows what. I posted it fwiw.

I don't believe you have an agenda or anything. I just felt you might be remembering wrong or recalling certain, specific incidences as the way pet aggro worked in general. What Bartly posted makes sense. It would explain both why your 6-man mage crew had threat issues and why I rarely seemed to encounter any since I was usually solo or in a group of under 4 people. I didn't see issues in normal experience groups either since pet tanking was rarely needed, so that could explain why I never noticed such a mechanic.

Also, it was too late at night for me to put two and two together to figure out what that acronym stood for.

[Skydash]

Were you the tank too? Or were mobs being tagged by an sk or pal on incoming?

Too many details missing.

Body pulls almost guaranted a sitter getting beat on, unless they were out of the way enough.

I tried searching everywhere.. I read all the old 2001 Monkley Buziness threads about pulling: no where in all those discussions do they bring up sit agro, except one place which mentions sitting increased proximity agro for pulling (http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8933&highlight=pulling+sitting+players), and another: sitting under mob's belly to pull agro from tank (http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8590)

Then I found another place discussing two agro lists for mob's. One proximity and one Hate, once the Hate agro has been established by anyone it turned the Proximity off.

From my memory, pulling for a long time in Lower Guk, only a body poll(proximity pull), had a chance of going after someone else with a higher proximity agro. But once the mob gained ANY hate, by throwing 1 shiruken.. it would stay chasing.

The reason mobs attacked sitting people when they got back to group in raids etc, is because a bard would be in the group and put everyone on the Hate list once the song hit the puller... sitting on the Hate list moved the casters up and pulled the mobs to them.

Heres some druids griping in 2003 about how agro is busted now (http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-5646.html)

This guy is baffled by a new agro mechanic in 2010, and much discussion follows about SNAFU. And someone made this quote (http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/soearchive/viewtopic.php?f=1414&t=166287),

"If you are saying that you pulled a mob over a group of people which were not currently engaged with another mob that is social with the one you pulled over them, that none of the people in that group did anything to the mob chasing you and none of them cast a benefical spell on you (or anyone else who was already on the mob's Hate List), and that you did not somehow dump your aggro (FD, Fade, Evac, etc.) while the mob was in proximity aggro range of the group, yet the mob stopped to attack them along the way then...yes, that is definately not normal behavior. "


Anyways, hope you look at some of these posts. Very interesting stuff.

[Danth]

But what seems to be off is the mobs attacking on inc.

For the life of me I can't replicate the behavior you describe unless I specifically try to do so (ie, if I deliberately pull without generating hate which would be highly abnormal for me). Not 5 minutes ago I told the wife to sit while I pulled a Cliff Golem directly over her and it completely ignored her. Whatever tweaks may be forthcoming, I think in the meantime it's best to get used to generating some hate upon pull.

Danth

[scarletghost]

I tried searching everywhere.. I read all the old 2001 Monkley Buziness threads about pulling: no where in all those discussions do they bring up sit agro, except one place which mentions sitting increased proximity agro for pulling (http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8933&highlight=pulling+sitting+players), and another: sitting under mob's belly to pull agro from tank (http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8590)

Then I found another place discussing two agro lists for mob's. One proximity and one Hate, once the Hate agro has been established by anyone it turned the Proximity off.

From my memory, pulling for a long time in Lower Guk, only a body poll(proximity pull), had a chance of going after someone else with a higher proximity agro. But once the mob gained ANY hate, by throwing 1 shiruken.. it would stay chasing.

The reason mobs attacked sitting people when they got back to group in raids etc, is because a bard would be in the group and put everyone on the Hate list once the song hit the puller... sitting on the Hate list moved the casters up and pulled the mobs to them.

Heres some druids griping in 2003 about how agro is busted now (http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-5646.html)

This guy is baffled by a new agro mechanic in 2010, and much discussion follows about SNAFU. And someone made this quote (http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/soearchive/viewtopic.php?f=1414&t=166287),

"If you are saying that you pulled a mob over a group of people which were not currently engaged with another mob that is social with the one you pulled over them, that none of the people in that group did anything to the mob chasing you and none of them cast a benefical spell on you (or anyone else who was already on the mob's Hate List), and that you did not somehow dump your aggro (FD, Fade, Evac, etc.) while the mob was in proximity aggro range of the group, yet the mob stopped to attack them along the way then...yes, that is definately not normal behavior. "


Anyways, hope you look at some of these posts. Very interesting stuff.


/applaud

[pharmakos]

From my memory, which is admittedly weak, I find this innacurate. casters/healers used to get hit during pulls if they were sitting when mobs came into camp. Whether they wre pulled with a bow, spells, or proxim aggro. On live I played a paladin, if I pulled with a stun the casters were getting up, one way or another, when mobs entered the camp.

But like I said, my memory is weak.

its because your stuns didn't do any damage.

[Blasted]

I tried searching everywhere.. I read all the old 2001 Monkley Buziness threads about pulling: no where in all those discussions do they bring up sit agro, except one place which mentions sitting increased proximity agro for pulling (http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8933&highlight=pulling+sitting+players), and another: sitting under mob's belly to pull agro from tank (http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8590)

Then I found another place discussing two agro lists for mob's. One proximity and one Hate, once the Hate agro has been established by anyone it turned the Proximity off.

From my memory, pulling for a long time in Lower Guk, only a body poll(proximity pull), had a chance of going after someone else with a higher proximity agro. But once the mob gained ANY hate, by throwing 1 shiruken.. it would stay chasing.

The reason mobs attacked sitting people when they got back to group in raids etc, is because a bard would be in the group and put everyone on the Hate list once the song hit the puller... sitting on the Hate list moved the casters up and pulled the mobs to them.

Heres some druids griping in 2003 about how agro is busted now (http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-5646.html)

This guy is baffled by a new agro mechanic in 2010, and much discussion follows about SNAFU. And someone made this quote (http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/soearchive/viewtopic.php?f=1414&t=166287),

"If you are saying that you pulled a mob over a group of people which were not currently engaged with another mob that is social with the one you pulled over them, that none of the people in that group did anything to the mob chasing you and none of them cast a benefical spell on you (or anyone else who was already on the mob's Hate List), and that you did not somehow dump your aggro (FD, Fade, Evac, etc.) while the mob was in proximity aggro range of the group, yet the mob stopped to attack them along the way then...yes, that is definately not normal behavior. "


Anyways, hope you look at some of these posts. Very interesting stuff.

Honestly, all of this sounds accurate to the best of my memory from classic through PoP. I played a paladin and a warrior, so I had experience pulling in a variety of ways. With exceptions caused by bards, if someone hasn't engaged a mob, he shouldn't cause a mob to peel off someone who has engaged, just because he's sitting nearby. As I'm typing this, I'm imagining how easy it would be to train people if anything else were the case.

Am I reading something incorrectly, or are we really debating this mechanic?

Edit: Undeads may have behaved differently at times. Memory is fuzzy there.

[Clark]

"Fixed sit aggro."

Woot thanks!