The new EQ Live server will be a time locked progression server

[BuzWeaver]

Source (http://www.completeheal.com/)

[tj218]

That doesn't bode well

[Seeatee]

at this point fuck EQ live, for one its going to be filled with TONS AND TONS of people who play to level 10 or 15 then never log in again, everyone else will be an amalgamation of bleeding edge'ers trying to be the first to do everything, and to boot it will cost 15 bucks a month, where as P1999 is filled almost exclusively with people who love the game, is run by people who love the game, and is free to play.

so yea, way to little way way too late, seems like an easy choice for me as to where ill be playing at.

[tj218]

at this point fuck EQ live, for one its going to be filled with TONS AND TONS of people who play to level 10 or 15 then never log in again, everyone else will be an amalgamation of bleeding edge'ers trying to be the first to do everything, and to boot it will cost 15 bucks a month, where as P1999 is filled almost exclusively with people who love the game, is run by people who love the game, and is free to play.

so yea, way to little way way too late, seems like an easy choice for me as to where ill be playing at.


I agree with you 100%, but if anything causes Sony's legal team to come after P99...this server will be the cause and even though we are in the right, they could probably shut it down by burying Rogean and Co. in legal paperwork.

[Chrisjag92]

at this point fuck EQ live, for one its going to be filled with TONS AND TONS of people who play to level 10 or 15 then never log in again, everyone else will be an amalgamation of bleeding edge'ers trying to be the first to do everything, and to boot it will cost 15 bucks a month, where as P1999 is filled almost exclusively with people who love the game, is run by people who love the game, and is free to play.

so yea, way to little way way too late, seems like an easy choice for me as to where ill be playing at.

I agree with your point about the group of people who just want to be the first to down everything, but I'm pretty sure there will be a large population of people that will play it for what it is, much like p1999. If the population of the server is considerably larger than the one here, I will probably end up over there instead.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Another chance to go camp rubicite, manastones, and pre-nerf guises for those who missed it again this time around, haha.

[RKromwell]

Does that site even have a server up and running?


Honestly, I am sure there are lots of people who would like to try it out but I am not paying 15 bucks a month to do something I did 10 years ago.

[Seeatee]

its not even going to be something you did 10 years ago, it has the current models, current client, current exp rates, everything about it is current eq, you are just stuck to the original 3 continents, this server will be a far cry from classic.

[Malrubius]

I am not paying 15 bucks a month to do something I did 10 years ago.

I would, but that isn't going to be remotely close to what EQ was 10 years ago. P1999 is.

[Auvdar]

I'm no code monkey, but really? Second week of JANUARY Sony? How hard can it really be to re-release the old progression servers and just add a time-lock? Since you know that's all its going to be. A rehash. There will still be the new zones, new exp rates, new spells, new graphics, etc etc.

Especially right now since this is the down time era in the MMO world. Honestly Sony, way to ruin a great game. I hope someone from Sony reads these boards, because the way they run a company is just retarded. They have a golden chance right now to rake in some good cash, but they want to put it off till January? Isn't that when people will be playing the new WoW expansion? Good call!

[Aandolaf]

The thought of playing in the revamped zones makes me cringe.

[Malrubius]

The thought of playing in the revamped zones makes me cringe.

I actually use the term "devamped" to refer to those zones.

[BuzWeaver]

its not even going to be something you did 10 years ago, it has the current models, current client, current exp rates, everything about it is current eq, you are just stuck to the original 3 continents, this server will be a far cry from classic.

Most likely it will be very similar if not exactly like the previous progression server. I'm not sure if you'd even have the old world 'original drops such as the Mana Stone or Guise of the Deceiver. At least I don't recall the previous progression having it.

I do remember that within two to three weeks people had already managed to make Misty Thicket Picnic Baskets and Qeynos Afternoon Tea. The Stats on both of these items rival anything that would drop even from the Planes and or Kunark (they were being sold for as little as 1sp per item or 2gold a stack).

Personally I'm not in any hurry to start again. P99 has what most of the old school players are really looking for. In the mean time I'll keep an eye on Everquest Next.

[BuzWeaver]

I'm no code monkey, but really? Second week of JANUARY Sony? How hard can it really be to re-release the old progression servers and just add a time-lock? Since you know that's all its going to be. A rehash. There will still be the new zones, new exp rates, new spells, new graphics, etc etc.

Especially right now since this is the down time era in the MMO world. Honestly Sony, way to ruin a great game. I hope someone from Sony reads these boards, because the way they run a company is just retarded. They have a golden chance right now to rake in some good cash, but they want to put it off till January? Isn't that when people will be playing the new WoW expansion? Good call!

The new EQ Expansion and EQII F2P are coming out so they don't want to turn people's attention away from that just yet.

[Reiker]

We've had this thread before. I don't know why people confuse "progression" and "classic;" they're too completely different types of servers.

Progression in the original incarnation was like a "raider challenge" server - the entire ruleset was designed for competition among raiding guilds. The pace of the server in ways made raiding more fun than it was when the content was current. After a year Phinigel's not a blip on anyone's radar, but when you have 30 days to get your epic Phinny pieces before epics are released, some really crazy shit occurs in Kedge. And that's just one example. The chaos that occurs when you condense the expansions so much is very entertaining.

And as it ended up, the raiders loved prog (since this news my AIM has been blowing up with people trying to reconnect for this server), the casuals usually ended up bitching and talking about how the server was such a "failure" after playing for 6 months and dropping $90 on it.

There was a lot of shit that sucked about prog like the revamped zones, zones that were released too early, out of era loot, etc. Again, this affected the casuals more than the raiders as it was really easy to get awesome loot ie. worn haste from Greigs, but if you had raid gear this stuff wasn't very important (besides stuff like the required level 60 ranged item that I used from Kunark and never upgraded until GoD and that was more like a sidegrade). There was a thread started by a dev to collect a list of everything that shouldn't have been in prog and that was pretty complete. The only thing that could really ruin this server is if defiant armor is kept in; that stuff really can't be upgraded until Qvic+.

Some people will like it, others will hate it, thousands will play it. But to say "Progression sucks because it's not classic" is like saying EQ sucks because you don't like its PVP. Totally irrelevant.

[guineapig]

I do remember that within two to three weeks people had already managed to make Misty Thicket Picnic Baskets and Qeynos Afternoon Tea. The Stats on both of these items rival anything that would drop even from the Planes and or Kunark (they were being sold for as little as 1sp per item or 2gold a stack).


This right here.

SoE will not do it right. The mobs, the drops the non-classic quests. Just watch, they will all be in there.

For the most part they will just lock zones. Don't think for a second they have a development team re-coding the entire game for this niche server.

[sleepingwolf]

On their "checklist" they tell that almost everything's nearly done, but seems as though they have even more drama than p99, without a running server. I just brought it up because Sony did try to bury them in legal work, and got nothing out of it.

Either way, yeah, Sony would fuck up a "timed progression" server. You know one or two guilds will get to the caps within a couple weeks, and be bitching and moaning about how the other people, enjoying their gameplay, are holding back the "hardcores" from progression. I can't see it lasting more than a year before SOE buckles and speeds up progression on it.
Not even a year, the last time they did progression servers I resubbed and it was only a month or two before they took the time lock off.

[Ripcord]

I got the first phinny killshot on combine and as a monk no less! Even with all the messed up shit that shouldn't be there, all the guilds had the same uneven playground. It was fun for a while to see who could accomplish stuff first using anything and everything available. It was felt like a comic book cross over where aliens with laserguns invade king arthurs castle but batman appears and saves the day. Good for a few week side project but I'm not gonna leave p99 over it.

[Eternal-Elf]

I personally think it sounds great.

[Rogean]

I was in vegas for 7 days overlapping fanfaire and poked in there a few times. Through some connections I got to meet smedley face to face. Hes not interested in trying to do anything to us, as long as we don't charge / profit.

Notice I said trying.. because even if they did decide to, we really don't do anything illegal to begin with (Intellectual Property is only illegal to profit from).

[tj218]

I was in vegas for 7 days overlapping fanfaire and poked in there a few times. Through some connections I got to meet smedley face to face. Hes not interested in trying to do anything to us, as long as we don't charge / profit.

Notice I said trying.. because even if they did decide to, we really don't do anything illegal to begin with (Intellectual Property is only illegal to profit from).

Just curious....was he aware of P99? Did he compliment you?

[Rogean]

Yes, he knows about it. No compliments, but a "btw we're hiring".

[Dominick]

Yes, he knows about it. No compliments, but a "btw we're hiring".

Thats a compliment in this business.

[Cogwell]

As someone stated earlier, progression and classic are two entirely different rulesets. I enjoyed the first progression server thoroughly, but it was a much different experience than this.

[Ripcord]

Its no shock he would try to recruit you, p99 is more impressive then the last 5 years of his entire company

[Tiggles]

Yes, he knows about it. No compliments, but a "btw we're hiring".

Tell them you want a high position on the EQ next Dev Team.

[to0p]

Yes, he knows about it. No compliments, but a "btw we're hiring".

Thats a good note to end on.

At least you know you can have a direct impact on some game in the near future if you decide to :)

[Itchybottom]

Its no shock he would try to recruit you, p99 is more impressive then the last 5 years of his entire company

I really hope this is sarcasm.

[acrisius]

Another chance to go camp rubicite, manastones, and pre-nerf guises for those who missed it again this time around, haha.

This makes me want to punch babies.

[Hasbinbad]

too
two*

[Hasbinbad]

Yes, he knows about it. No compliments, but a "btw we're hiring".
Gratz dude(s?), I really hope that pans out for you.. Well deserved.

[Greyhands]

Ya piss on them im having way to much fun on 99

[Reiker]

to

too*

[toddfx]

I actually use the term "devamped" to refer to those zones.

That's how I felt about their newer character models too. Those things looked like stuffed puppets with sticks up their asses.

[Ripcord]

I really hope this is sarcasm.

Its not. Let's look at some of SOE's recent biggest accomplishments:

1. Start the card game crap and build RMT systems offering pixels for real money

2. Drive eq live further into the ground - every other update is just new marketplace items

3. Eq2/ SWG i cant really comment on because I cant stand either long enough to give them a fair chance, but I dont hear particularly good things about them (i.e star wars combat patch)

4. Vanguard Dies due to abysmal resource allocation

5. FreeRealms ('nuff said)

6. DC universe... really hope this will be great but I can see them dumping their whole budget on cinemas, voice acting, and advertisement and letting the actual game suck. No beta yet for a Nov. release which you can already pre-order? Sounds like Star Trek online's strategy and we all discovered why.

7. And most recently, what would potentially bring back a substantial bunch of box sales with the new server (if done it right) is getting put off till jan so they can focus on milking the newest expansion for whatever its worth. And even then im fairly sure they will fuck it up.

Smed only cares about money, which I can accept as they are a business, but I can't help but feel betrayed by the assfucking they repeatedly give to their (former) loyal customers. P99 however is driven by fans and for fans of the gaming experience we are all loved which to me is far more impressive then whatever profits SOE is pulling off.

[OngorDrakan]

I'd rather pay $12 monthly here :P

Even with all the assholes, the nice players make up for it :)

[Reiker]

Its not. Let's look at some of SOE's recent biggest accomplishments:

1. Start the card game crap and build RMT systems offering pixels for real money

2. Drive eq live further into the ground - every other update is just new marketplace items

3. Eq2/ SWG i cant really comment on because I cant stand either long enough to give them a fair chance, but I dont hear particularly good things about them (i.e star wars combat patch)

4. Vanguard Dies due to abysmal resource allocation

5. FreeRealms ('nuff said)

6. DC universe... really hope this will be great but I can see them dumping their whole budget on cinemas, voice acting, and advertisement and letting the actual game suck. No beta yet for a Nov. release which you can already pre-order? Sounds like Star Trek online's strategy and we all discovered why.

7. And most recently, what would potentially bring back a substantial bunch of box sales with the new server (if done it right) is getting put off till jan so they can focus on milking the newest expansion for whatever its worth. And even then im fairly sure they will fuck it up.

Smed only cares about money, which I can accept as they are a business, but I can't help but feel betrayed by the assfucking they repeatedly give to their (former) loyal customers. P99 however is driven by fans and for fans of the gaming experience we are all loved which to me is far more impressive then whatever profits SOE is pulling off.

Freerealms was really successful, and you can't completely blame SoE on Vanguard's failure.

[Itchybottom]

Alright Ripcord, let's look at Project 1999's recent accomplishments:

1. Take a database designed by someone else in the EQEMU community, and start to tweak it based on anecdote posts on Allakhazam and various resources on the Internet

2. Alter pre-existing EQEmulator source code to attempt to facilitate classic rule sets

3. Change a few text files for a client that wasn't designed by the developers to make it seem more classic

SoE has innovated new expansions, new content; this project is just attempting to rehash the glory days of burn outs, basement dwellers and/or people that never really found a gaming sense of accomplishment after EverQuest post-Velious. We're not creating our own game here, and we'll never have the quests that were never figured out on live here. Nor will this project ever reach the point of approximation parallel that Sony can do with a classic server if they so choose at a later date.

There is nothing really WRONG with Project 1999, or EQEmulator and it's goals, but it isn't anywhere near as committed as a single new expansion from Sony Online Entertainment. We don't have the creativity, assets and for the most part knowledge of the client. We don't even know most of the formulas used to calculate skills from live, aside from those that have been in dev discusion on Sony's forums! We can do some simple algebra to approximate things based on parses, but we don't have the answers. We only know what the client expects for the most part (and even then, I'm not sure everyone involved in this project, or ProjectEQ knows that much.) I've been reverse engineering eqgame.exe (and associated eqmain.dll for encryption) since late 1999 with Ashran, Megaton, plazmic (may he rest in peace), Tux, icon and Carpathian and I still don't know everything there is to know about Sony's client. Too much changes on patch day, and there are a lot of functions that were simply never implemented. The only real luck we've ever had at the holy grail, was when Sony leaked a PDB and MAP file during a patch for eqgame.exe. I really wish they screwed up more often like that ;)

I'm glad Project 1999 and EQ Classic exist, it gives me a reason to dig deeper into the lore on live that I missed out on because I was too busy making the client a challenge, rather than the actual game.

But don't try to knock Sony for it's accomplishments based on your personal taste, because you're dealing with a realm of fiction. Not disimilar to the constant World of Warcraft bashing. I'm not a big fan of the game either, but from a design point of view, and a 'fun' point of view (which is the point of games, as we 'hardcore' people often forget) it's objectively superior in game mechanics and re-playability. Even their engine uses game assets more efficiently. Hell, a great deal of the quests on WoW are more involving than classic EverQuest! We can put ourselves on pedestals all day and insist that we're smarter than the rest of the world/Internet for not playing WoW, or that Sony is ass raping it's loyal customers because they're making the game have more content, and implementing features to keep players from getting bored with things they've done dozens of times... but let's try to keep things in perspective here instead of stroking our egos. SoE continues to accomplish more than any of us will in the next decade.

[Elissa]

I was in vegas for 7 days overlapping fanfaire and poked in there a few times. Through some connections I got to meet smedley face to face. Hes not interested in trying to do anything to us, as long as we don't charge / profit.

Notice I said trying.. because even if they did decide to, we really don't do anything illegal to begin with (Intellectual Property is only illegal to profit from).

Very cool, but as an attorney I can tell you the caselaw is not quite so cut and dry as that... but I'm not worried :)

[eqdruid76]

For years I've felt that EQ Live has devolved into a coding/development sandbox for Sony new-hires/trainees who care more about virtual card games than MMOs. Of course, the same can be said (and much more deservedly) for Star Wars Galaxies.

[Zithax]

No compliments, but a "btw we're hiring".

LOL, I don't know how much I'd read into that pal. Considering SOE just laid off 35 people / 4% of their workforce in July.

[oldhead]

Yes, he knows about it. No compliments, but a "btw we're hiring".

You are not allowed... You work for them than this could be a breach of your employee contract.

[milsorgen]

For years I've felt that EQ Live has devolved into a coding/development sandbox for Sony new-hires/trainees who care more about virtual card games than MMOs. Of course, the same can be said (and much more deservedly) for Star Wars Galaxies.

This. I also believe they may of lost or not kept some of their own in house tools/data/talent.


We don't even know most of the formulas used to calculate skills from live, aside from those that have been in dev discusion on Sony's forums! We can do some simple algebra to approximate things based on parses, but we don't have the answers.

Oh yeah those super advanced formulas with their 'soft caps' and focus on one primary stat... Don't know if you ever bothered reading descriptions of classes, races, etc.. But there was a huge disconnect between the way things were describe and how they played out in game mechanics. So while your point is valid in that we won't have exact formulas until some past dev kindly dumps some info (like they did with Sonic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_X-treme#Post-cancellation); there is also a point you're overlooking and that is EQ just wasn't that advanced. Databases are a standard genre of computing programing, so are game engines and 3d worlds and the fact remains what we are trying to recreate here has no secret sauce, no magic. Just some data that we don't have... yet. Just take a look at sites like unseen64.net and you will realize there is a whole army of basement dwellers chomping at the bit to relieve old games, betas, engines, etc. and with all the people that worked on and loved EQ it's just a matter of time before we get true classic data (if it still exists).



But don't try to knock Sony for it's accomplishments based on your personal taste, because you're dealing with a realm of fiction.


But in reality I'm just going to call bullshit on Itchy's whole post, the fact remains EQ as software was in a piss poor fashion from day 1. There was nothing robust about the client and the server, especially in the early days. But what was there was magical but that is a testament to the original devs and designers, not Sony. They simply took a good thing, made a ton of money off it and then pissed it away. From the tons of promised features that never made an appearance to the constant crashing and network issues that took years to fix. They knew they had a cash cow on day one yet (seemingly) never scaled up any resources to deal with problems. From the busted boats to the lackadaisical attitude in adding major & minor quests/items/etc piecemeal, all one has to do is take a look at what Blizzard did better with WoW, they offered robust and well running game that when it comes down to brass tax is basically an EQ clone yet they completely dominated in subs and I think that is in no small part to how well the client runs on a myriad of hardware and their commitment to offering a consistent and working game environment.