Sit aggro

[Arterian]

Haynar: Aggro checks on mobs that are engaged, will no longer ignore players that are sitting. Sitting will add you to their list. Bumped up the temporary hate from sit aggro, to have a more significant impact on sitting while a mob is being pulled.

Don't recall this being classic...and makes game almost unplayable. Please patch ASAP.

[Swish]

Ever been in Plane of Fear?

[Ando]

Yeah this is a bit ridiculous. It is literally impossible for my charmed pets to hold aggro, even if I have cast ZERO spells on the other mob.

[JayN]

its bad for raids thats for sure!

[Kazi]

Are you kidding? No one sat on pulls in classic because the first thing a pulled mob would do is run around smacking everyone.

[hernathil]

We are pulling having sitting people taking agro off a Warrior that has taken the mob he's fighting to 50% health. Is this working as intended ?

[Crawdad]

Something is very wrong.. A caster sitting down is pulling aggro over me when charm breaks.

[Kazi]

Sit agro should dissipate around 90% mob hps or so and if a caster has built up enough hate, he should pull agro if he sits down. This is what I remember from live.

[hernathil]

This is no spell casting whatsoever , just sitting when the pull occurs. Warrior is taunting and doing damage to the mob till 50% at times , and its still ripping it away.

[Grydworn]

Are you kidding? No one sat on pulls in classic because the first thing a pulled mob would do is run around smacking everyone.

Thats simply not true. If incoming and you pulled OVER someone medding, he could be agroed. That has nothing to do with this new agro situation.

[Arterian]

Can literally ping pong a mob around your camp indefinitely via sitting. Has moderate entertainment value.

[Daldaen]

So this is going to go from low HP bard kiting to PBAEing a train while people bounce sit aggro?

[Velerin]

Sounds like someone put the decimal in the wrong place in the code. Hopefully get fixed soon.
I don't think this was ever a factor for any exp camps. Just some raid mobs in certain zones like fear/hate.

[Pringles]

Thats simply not true. If incoming and you pulled OVER someone medding, he could be agroed. That has nothing to do with this new agro situation.

Wrong. Frequently "sitters" would pull agro on pulls on live. There is a reason people stood on inc. I was a main puller for our guild..... you didnt have to "pull across" someone sitting for them to get agro, the inc mob would literally B-line for someone a significant distance away if they were sitting.

Now, from the sounds of it, agro maybe a bit too high here, but sit agro was *HUGE* on live.

[Swish]

Mounts fixed a lot of sit aggro iirc...not that it helps us :D

[CodyF86]

Everyones going to hate me, but this is way more like live now and it doesn't seem
to be as bad as people are making it sound.

I can pull the dino with malo, run away with my pet wacking him and sit,
and my pet will still pull him off me by the time he gets to me. So I don't
really think it's as bad as people are making it sound, but this is the only
merb i've been able to play around with it on, so your miles may vary.

p.s. This makes using capped initial aggro even more critical btw.

p.s.s. Initial aggro is capped!

Although that doesn't really help others who are sitting any.

Aaradin
Aaradone
The A-Team

[Vexenu]

This is very broken. Pre-patch soloing on my Mage, I could pull with lvl 1 nuke and pet would grab agro with 2 good rounds of melee, allowing me to sit. Post-patch pet won't hold agro allowing me to sit until the mob is at around 50% hp.

[jaybone]

Make mages even more fucking useless soloing. Thanks guys!!!

[Ajkuhuun]

It's pretty bad. Necro in my group + pet is getting the mob down to 50-30% range on his own and if I sit, it runs over and smacks me with no heals on him and no damage done to the mob. Definitely worse than live by far.

[Swish]

Doom/gloom etc.

If its definitely wrong they'll sort it. Remember mobs fleeing at 25% at sow speed a year or more back? :p

[Rhambuk]

Sit agro is classic, to the point a warrior is taking it to 50% and you have done nothing but literally sit within agro range and pull agro....if true wrong, but I highly highly doubt this.

[Menaan]

Yes, when I read that patch note I literally face palmed because I knew this was going to happen. They really should work on fixing the screwed up aggro on this server before adding things that screws up aggro more.

From what I've been able to determine white damage aggro is nearly non existent. Way way lower than it should be. And now sit aggro is way to high for there to be near non existent white damage aggro.

Yes on live back in the day if the puller didn't do anything at all to the mob when he pulled you could get aggro when the mob got into camp from sitting. However, if the puller hit it with a couple ranged weapons or meleed it a few times, it was a non issue. I've been a monk since 99 so that comes from experience.

Also just to note, if you built up enough aggro from casting nukes you could pull aggro when you sat but were fine as long as you were standing, but you should NEVER pull aggro if you wait till the mob is past 95% before you sit and haven't cast anything at all. And pet aggro just seems beyond pointless atm. Definitely not classic style pet aggro since you can't really do anything at all to a mob being tanked by a pet without pulling aggro.

[Halaman]

Agro is not at all like classic. I'm am sure they'll adjust this because it can make things easily exploited, right?

[Hollywood]

Ever been in Plane of Fear?

Really? Just because Fear is a cluster fu** doesn't mean lowbie areas should be.


Yes sitting increases threat, but this is terrible. You can do significant damage to a mob, through various means, from several individuals and then with 30% life on the mob, ONE person sits down and it goes clear across the room chasing after them until they stand.


What?


Agro is not at all like classic. I'm am sure they'll adjust this because it can make things easily exploited, right?


Exactly. Someone is dying? Everyone keep sit/standing to pull thread

[baalzy]

Sounds like its time to aoe everywhere by putting two people on opposite ends of a party and teeter tottering while the casters nuke. Do this for a few hours and it'll get fixed

[Callon]

Yeah, I bet complaints/petition about trains will increase now due to someone kiting/pulling mobs and they aggro you while minding your own business.

Time to adjust and make due. Like someone mentioned when flee was added in they ran at sow speed and was fixed. I'm sure adjustments will be made to make things better.

[Hollywood]

Yeah, I bet complaints/petition about trains will increase now due to someone kiting/pulling mobs and they aggro you while minding your own business.


Wow didn't think about that!


Thing is, this is not new territory and it wasn't done under huge management pressure and as a result a slip up was made. This is a simple numerical value that should have been tested locally. How could they thought it was meant to be like this?

[Painperdu]

Haynar: Aggro checks on mobs that are engaged, will no longer ignore players that are sitting. Sitting will add you to their list. Bumped up the temporary hate from sit aggro, to have a more significant impact on sitting while a mob is being pulled.

It's unplayable. If adds, casters cannot med. Mobs aggro from too far away when you sit.

And you really gotta tell me how it's classic, it's never been like that.

[baalzy]

Body pulling a mob over near a sitting person and that person getting agro is classic. Doing a bit of damage to that mob and then having a person who has done nothing else shouldn't be getting hate.

[Painperdu]

The point is that I still get aggro when the mob has been hit and is 95% hp. I'll get the logs.

[Hollywood]

Aye, we've got mobs that have been stun locked for minutes racking up huge threat and when it breaks it's all over the ENC. One person sits and vroom off goes the mob after them. Root just became the new mez.

[Buellen]

chello

Ok enough drama on sit agro.

PRIOR to patch chanter using animation pull with weakness step back then animation engages wait for 10 to 15 percent of mob health before sit or i would pull agro.


AFTER patch same animation same mob pull with weakness step back till animation engages. wait till 15 percent health of mob down try to sit and the mob immediately moves toward me stand back up goes back to animation. Wait till 22 to 25 percent of mob health and sit safely.


trying to sit close to mob or far away same results. You can successful ping pong mobs now with the new sit agro mechanic. Used to do this on live so very similair agro as live.

another thing is you can use this sit mechanic to position mob safely now so that it is not in a soothed mob agro range like before since pet animation cannot be back off.

[Learuis]

Forget root, just set up one person at each end of the camp and have them sit-kite the mobs back and forth. That's the new mez.

[Hollywood]

chello

Ok enough drama on sit agro.

PRIOR to patch chanter using animation pull with weakness step back then animation engages wait for 10 to 15 percent of mob health before sit or i would pull agro.


AFTER patch same animation same mob pull with weakness step back till animation engages. wait till 15 percent health of mob down try to sit and the mob immediately moves toward me stand back up goes back to animation. Wait till 25 percent of mob health and sit safely.


trying to sit close to mob or far away same results. You can successful ping pong mobs now with the new sit agro mechanic. Used to do this on live so very similair agor as live.

Rationalize all you want, when a mob is pulled into a room on the far side, gets slammed to 80% within mere seconds and then debuffed, I'd say one person sitting down who hasn't engaged the fight, is not a threat...

And yet here we are pingponging mobs.

[Learuis]

In unrest we have mobs running from one end of the courtyard to the other to attack a sitting person in another group. Seems like there's no radius on it?

[Hollywood]

Aye, the yard is crazy, but not that crazy.

[odiecat99]

Why not posted in bug forum?

[Mithan]

I do think the sit aggro is a tad overtuned. What's odd to me, is that, When I'm sat when the tank go pull, bring the mob back, the mob will beat on the tank for 2-3 sec, then run for me (at that point i have done nothing but being sat). As if sit aggro was calculated on server ticks, not just when doing the action of sitting, I don't recall that from the old days (could be faulty memory)

[Quineloe]

Why not posted in bug forum?

because this is intended?

[Buellen]

Rationalize all you want, when a mob is pulled into a room on the far side, gets slammed to 80% within mere seconds and then debuffed, I'd say one person sitting down who hasn't engaged the fight, is not a threat...

And yet here we are pingponging mobs.

I just did a very easy test any pet class can do. why the heck would i fabricate this information. here is an idea run the same test yourself and then you can see how it work for single person no one around.


Now as to mob running all over because they have someone who was sitting near them on the pull or by their path that i cannot test yet but i will.

[odiecat99]

because this is intended?

To this extreme?

I didnt realize you did the coding here.
thanks for confirmation

[Crawdad]

I just did a very easy test any pet class can do. why the heck would i fabricate this information. here is an idea run the same test yourself and then you can see how it work for single person no one around.


Now as to mob running all over because they have someone who was sitting near them on the pull or by their path that i cannot test yet but i will.


Doing ledge group in OT right now. Warrior/Monk/Charmed pet beat mobs down to <50% (Just had one at 35% do this) and cleric/wizard/me(the ench) sitting down is enough to draw aggro.

Edit: Like somebody else said I'm sure this is just compounding the fact that aggro is all wonky on this server to begin with.

[Quineloe]

To this extreme?

I didnt realize you did the coding here.
thanks for confirmation

you read nilbog's replies yet? Don't sit on pulls.

[odiecat99]

Thanks for confirmation

totally classic

[Hollywood]

I just did a very easy test any pet class can do. why the heck would i fabricate this information. here is an idea run the same test yourself and then you can see how it work for single person no one around.


Now as to mob running all over because they have someone who was sitting near them on the pull or by their path that i cannot test yet but i will.

My point was that you chose a specific and acute scenario to explain or justify the symptoms we are experiencing.

you read nilbog's replies yet? Don't sit on pulls.


Don't think they know what actually has happened here. pulling a mob on top of a sitting person, with a near empty threat list, will get them attacked = classic. Killing a mob to near death and randomly sitting and getting aggro is NOT classic.

[Buellen]

Second expirement.


1 chanter and my animation <pet>

1 melee class

engage with weaken pul mob pet engages melee hit mob i pull back and sit mob comes towards me . melee sits i stand and mob goes toward melee. this is repeated till animation <pet> does 25 percent of mob health mob stays on pet.

I can see how if a mob hates anyone ie undead come to mind then they could ping pong all over dependent on who is on its hate list when its pulled.

[odiecat99]

My point was that you chose a specific and acute scenario to explain or justify the symptoms we are experiencing.




Don't think they know what actually has happened here. pulling a mob on top of a sitting person, with a near empty threat list, will get them attacked = classic. Killing a mob to near death and randomly sitting and getting aggro is NOT classic.

This^

[SirAlvarex]

My anecdotal memory remembers having to stand on pulls and apologizing when I accidentally was caught sitting.

Pulls were also generally slower, so there was time to med in between pulls. It's been too long for me to be sure, but something reasonable like 25% of the HP done to a mob by a single player should be enough to keep a healthy balance of fun and classicness.

[odiecat99]

I understand the keep your distance, dont sit on incoming, but shits just wrong here.

whether not its working as intended or not is stupid.

I remember sitting and gettin hit on raids..
dont remember tank doing 60% of damage before I could sit or nuke.

its whatevs.

[cdawgz28]

This is a joke, i dont see myself playing like this...Ill be back when it's fixed

[Bazia]

If you played live you know that almost nobody was meditating during a mob encounter.

Shit's classic, deal with it.

[Hollywood]

If you played live you know that almost nobody was meditating during a mob encounter.

Shit's classic, deal with it.

Nonsense. I can easily see in my mind a poor little dwarf cleric sitting with us in the backroom of Unrest, no one was twinked and no one had breeze. He was sitting so much during each fight trying to claw back mana, that people were complaining he wasn't healing.

He was stuck apologizing for trying to save mana to heal! Now that's classic.

[odiecat99]

Bazia sucks anyway disregard what he says.

I just get "this message is hidden because the person is on your ignore list" when he posts.

[Colga]

Slightly off topic, but I can remember watching casters sit near the wall at the zone in for PoH not knowing any better. It was all slow motion before we were raped by ghouls.

[Zapatos]

I'm confused. There seems to be some mixup between proximity aggro and sit aggro. It sounds like you guys finally fixed proximity aggro, but made it to sitting players only? All players nearby an engaged mob should be put on the aggro list via proximity aggro. See the fansy the bard thing.

Sitting did give you more aggro, like an aggro multiplier, but not something a disease cloud/flame lick or whatever couldn't take care of intially. You wouldn't sit on inc because a lot of the time the puller wouldn't have more than proximity aggro... so your sit proximity aggro would be higher than the puller's low aggro. Later in the fight I'm sure while you sat it was still just a multiplier of whatever aggro you had, until you stood again.

[Clark]

Sit agro should dissipate around 90% mob hps or so and if a caster has built up enough hate, he should pull agro if he sits down. This is what I remember from live.

+1

[Quineloe]

Don't think they know what actually has happened here. pulling a mob on top of a sitting person, with a near empty threat list, will get them attacked = classic. Killing a mob to near death and randomly sitting and getting aggro is NOT classic.

nilbog was actually standing in our camp, watching what was happening on three pulls before he left.

If you played live you know that almost nobody was meditating during a mob encounter.

Shit's classic, deal with it.


please explain how chain pulls were possible then when every caster was regenerating 10 mana per minute through standing.

[TanDemain]

Root just became the new mez.

As a wizard all I can say is ~ hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnrgghghhhhh yes! 60wiz lfg.

[Hollywood]

nilbog was actually standing in our camp, watching what was happening on three pulls before he left.




please explain how chain pulls were possible then when every caster was regenerating 10 mana per minute through standing.

Wow one person watched three pulls that could have been any type of pull.
What a great test bed that was - talk about digging deep for samples.

[Naena]

I used to play a wizard on live, there were many times where I'd med/afk through pulls and not have to worry about anything hitting me on the pull. After the patch today it seems like if anyone pulls something anywhere near you it will attack you, I've had people fighting things near me and have them at around 80% life and I'd sit down and they would come over and hit me.

Pretty sure the sit aggro went a little over the top with the patch today.

[Hollywood]

I used to play a wizard on live, there were many times where I'd med/afk through pulls and not have to worry about anything hitting me on the pull. After the patch today it seems like if anyone pulls something anywhere near you it will attack you, I've had people fighting things near me and have them at around 80% life and I'd sit down and they would come over and hit me.

Pretty sure the sit aggro went a little over the top with the patch today.


Thank you for mentioning wizard (both of you), this is extremely poignant because often people complained that all wizards (Alarti) and mages do/did was sit around and afk the whole time.

If THIS sitting aggro is classic, how come they never get/got attacked????

[Quineloe]

Wow one person watched three pulls that could have been any type of pull.
What a great test bed that was - talk about digging deep for samples.

you said they don't know how the changes played out yet, I just told you they do. The point of being so aggressive now is...?

We had everything, ping pong on pull, late sit agro on 30% hp mobs. What else do you want?

[bartly]

Sit aggro borked.

My pets hold zero aggro even if I do nothing to the mob.

[BahamutDF]

This is a classic mechanic. I distinctly remember medding during pulls being a big no no.

[bartly]

This is a classic mechanic. I distinctly remember medding during pulls being a big no no.

Yeah, only because of the off chance the warrior would fail to tag with his bow or whatever. Once the tank was on it there was no ping pong from sitting.

[Danth]

Just ignore the brown-nosers. They start chirping up with the "it's fine!" drivel any time anything gets broken. Obviously casters weren't pulling sit aggro on engaged mobs at 1/2 or 1/3 life. Everyone knows it, the devs know it, it'll get fixed.

In the meantime, the wife is glad she plays a Shaman and doesn't have to sit to maintain useful mana regen.


Danth

[Ajkuhuun]

In the meantime, the wife is glad she plays a Shaman and doesn't have to sit to maintain useful mana regen.

FML I just rerolled.

[StigIrish]

I was killing a level 6 bear on my level 7 druid. I had the bear down to about 20% health.

A level 36 necro sits down to med about a dozen or so feet away. Bear immediately bee lines it to the necro and is killed by his pet.

This is nothing like live.

Has anyone tested sitting down in the LGuk bedroom? Probably pull half the zone.

[element08]

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if dozens of mages suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.

[EvaShogouki01]

This is a classic mechanic. I distinctly remember medding during pulls being a big no no.

I remember this too. However there are lots of posts here talking about mobs turning on someone who has generated no aggro after being stunlocked by others or beaten down large percentages of their health. If this is happening then not only is this not like classic but this is a huge problem.

[kotton05]

Thank you for mentioning wizard (both of you), this is extremely poignant because often people complained that all wizards (Alarti) and mages do/did was sit around and afk the whole time.

He's not afk, he's posting on the forums or sending tells I bet

[fishingme]

If sit aggro was this bad in live, I would never ever of made a monk to FD train people. /thread

[DarthKraze]

Anyone have any idea how long it takes for stuff like this to get fixed?

[Frieza_Prexus]

Anyone have any idea how long it takes for stuff like this to get fixed?

Huge problems are generally solved within a day or less. I imagine the staff are going over their options for this right now.

[Rec]

Definitely not classic

[DarthKraze]

Huge problems are generally solved within a day or less. I imagine the staff are going over their options for this right now.

Awesome thanks, guess I'll go on a fap spree till things get sorted.

[fastboy21]

It sounds to me like they are trying to tweak aggro to approximate raid encounters for velious (heard about this coming soon anyone? hmm).

Aggro on p1999 is 100% exploitable compared to how it worked on live...the only good thing I can say about it right now is that devs are working on it and the devs here are really good. It might be bumpy, but they will fix the problems.

[Lisset]

Whether anyone wants to admit it, this whole thing is classic.

The devs would make this patch with changes that nobody really thought were necessary and then when it screwed everything up, nilbog, I mean Abashi would come back and say "it's working as intended, so you're just going to have to get used to it."

Yeah, it's classic.

[mreynert]

Whether anyone wants to admit it, this whole thing is classic.

The devs would make this patch with changes that nobody really thought were necessary and then when it screwed everything up, nilbog, I mean Abashi would come back and say "it's working as intended, so you're just going to have to get used to it."

Yeah, it's classic.

That's so meta...

[bomaroast]

Ya, this is fucked. This is not how its supposed to be. If someone pulls with a high agro spell they should be able to pull past sitting people.

[Swish]

It needs tweaking, I never remember it being this bad.

[Lisset]

It's ridiculous is what it is. There are people in unrest getting agro from different groups.

[casdegere]

Sitting agro past 75% pet damage is not classic, spin it however you want. I see a fundamental difference than I was used to.

my 60 toon agros entrance mobs in Sol A if he just passes by them. That is also inaccurate.

[HalflingWarrior]

Wrong. Frequently "sitters" would pull agro on pulls on live. There is a reason people stood on inc. I was a main puller for our guild..... you didnt have to "pull across" someone sitting for them to get agro, the inc mob would literally B-line for someone a significant distance away if they were sitting.

Now, from the sounds of it, agro maybe a bit too high here, but sit agro was *HUGE* on live.

I used to main tank during velious, and I remember this being PARTICULARLY TRUE on Vindicator pulls.

Monks would pull and FD....I would bowtag...and bring him to corner but if ANYONE WAS SITTING it would fuck the whole thing up every time. Vindi would B-Line for the sitter then proceed to go around wrecking non-tank-faces!

[Erasong]

bowtag was such light agro it happened sure but a sit shouldnt be pulling from say.. full on paly stun agro on a pull.

[Tasslehofp99]

Should a mob agro a sitting player if they haven't even engaged that mob?

[Swish]

Should a mob agro a sitting player if they haven't even engaged that mob?

Not that I remember. One guy in our raid earlier took a faction hit just by sitting there.

Guilty by association isn't classic.

[Humerox]

I don't remember having to stand in classic on INC...except in Fear.

I DO remember if you generated enough threat the mob would come to you when you sat down, then you'd have to stand until the tank peeled it off.

[Lisset]

Think about this for a minute. Sitting down is tons more agro than actually nuking. Whoever said it earlier is right, sitting down will become the new taunt, unless this is severely rolled back.

They need to reduce the amount of hate that sitting causes but most importantly the range.

[Kaldyn]

This makes medding impossible.

[Altair]

Look at it this way, any one can be the group puller now, Just make the warrior/tank sit and instant agro grabber....

Patch day, that's classic

P.S. Just DS the warrior/tank and make sure they are the only one sitting. Better than taunt;) heh

[fastboy21]

as soon as the mob hits him he will stand and pong the aggro to the next sitter...

[paulgiamatti]

I don't remember having to stand in classic on INC...except in Fear.

I DO remember if you generated enough threat the mob would come to you when you sat down, then you'd have to stand until the tank peeled it off.

Agree with this a lot. Please fix devs! I would gladly trade many hours of server downtime for it.

[Daysprung]

Gunna throw my hat in the ring here too...this new mechanic sucks. When pulling I can take the mob down 10% and bring it into camp and it will still agro someone sitting, that's just retarded. Poor warriors that already have a hard time keeping agro are sit dancing now to keep it. I'm seeing a lot of unhappy people and a mechanic thats not working as intended imo...

[webrunner5]

Well you people bitched because Taunt didn't work now you bitch because it does. :D:D:D

[Deanob]

I concur, counter productive on the dev team for something like this to go in. imho of course.

[Tuffpuppy]

I know some people are frustrated over the changes but I hope everyone knows that nilbog was on right when the patch went up and he witnessed the changes. I am sure if they need to be tuned they will be.

[DarthKraze]

Med please!

[BarackObooma]

Rogean BROADCASTS 'Just a notice, we'll be tweaking the sit aggro a bit. Hopefully a small patch later tonight for various fixes.'

[Yoite]

i dont know if this was mentioned already ( i didnt see it) but you are taking faction hits from sitting now, even if you did nothing to the mobs. Its like sit is consider an attack on the mob.

[StinkyGreenBud]

i dont know if this was mentioned already ( i didnt see it) but you are taking faction hits from sitting now, even if you did nothing to the mobs. Its like sit is consider an attack on the mob.

This right here is my biggest concern. Not cool getting negative faction hits being INVIS while someone else kills a guard...

[rooro]

i started an enchanter a few days ago. Being able to sit and swap spells was a necessity.

Sitting down when im like a mile away from the Bear im fighting, with its back towards me, and it turns to charge as soon as i sit, is so not realistic and completely breaks immersion.

i use to be amazed how realistic the mob AI was in this game . Now its like im fighting a futuristic, robotic , cyborg Bear with omniscient AI. Sooo ridiculous, its laughable!

This patch has made people who leveled up before the patch have such an advantage, its almost like it was an exploit.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

ok this is gotta be easily exploited. needs changed back asap!
i just figured out i can use sit to ping pong mob between me and my pet. it is like having a Toggle Taunt skill. ITS OVERPOWERED !!!! TAKE SERVER DOWN!!!

[Majnaurd]

This Sucks..Full on paly stuns, Flash of light Beat the damn thing to 15% and the god damned thing runs across the zone to hit someone medding..WTF?!?!? THIS is NOT Classic..Ive played since 96..NOT CLASSIC !!

[Lisset]

This Sucks..Full on paly stuns, Flash of light Beat the damn thing to 15% and the god damned thing runs across the zone to hit someone medding..WTF?!?!? THIS is NOT Classic..Ive played since 96..NOT CLASSIC !!

That must have been some time machine you had since the came didn't come out until 1999.

Here's the real shocker and you need to brace yourself. Project 1999 has the same number as the year Everquest was released.

Mind. Blown.

[Majnaurd]

So I mad e fek typo and didnt catch it..99 if that fekking soothes your panties

[baalzy]

Maybe he was an alpha tester?

[Quineloe]

This right here is my biggest concern. Not cool getting negative faction hits being INVIS while someone else kills a guard...

exactly, I don't ever recall eating a faction hit while doing nothing just because a mob was killed nearby. All people who agree with this change is have "you have to stand in Fear". Fear didn't work like the rest of Norrath :-/

[Sinestria]

exactly, I don't ever recall eating a faction hit while doing nothing just because a mob was killed nearby. All people who agree with this change is have "you have to stand in Fear". Fear didn't work like the rest of Norrath :-/

Devs are aware that it is screwy. They are working in it.

[Quineloe]

Devs are aware that it is screwy. They are working in it.

it doesn't really matter if you get a faction hit for the death of a mob you never touched because you're on the hate list for 1 point of agro or 1000 points of agro.

[justin2090]

Good news folks. Instead of low hp kiting there is sit kiting now. All your zones are now pulled.

[BahamutDF]

Servers down. Looks like they're tweaking it now.

I truthfully didn't notice it being all that abnormal today while grouping, but certainly other people's experiences in this thread indicate there are some issues. Hopefully they successfully tweak it and this becomes a non-issue asap.

[HawkMasterson1999]

Broken for sure. I like it but maybe at a third of its current potency

[Dakidd4990]

Some of you have pretty fuzzy memories. Classic was NOT like this. Not even CLOSE to like this. The only way sit aggro was ever a factor is if you body pulled shit or used a low dmg throwing weapon and dragged a mob OVER somebody sitting down then they'd get smacked. If the mob was dmg'd 5-10% and you did nothing to it then sit aggro was a non-factor even if it was dragged past your face. I played from beta phase 3 til prophecy of ro expansion and NEVER in regular exp groups did I have to stand up on every god damn pull to avoid being hit and I played almost exclusively casters that were sitting on every inc.

[Man0warr]

^^^^

[Juhstin]

Its fixed, everyone can rest easy.

[Andragore]

For sure? Died three times last night from people training SG's in oasis - I am hoping it was unintentional and the sit agro thing had their plan all jacked up. Was sitting on the end of the dock to memm spells after second body recovery - SG standing on other side of the stone pillar doing nothing (mind you I have done this many times on live back in the day and recently with NO problem at that distance), the second I sat and my spell book popped up - he made a beeline for me and smoked me again. Also note that I was not hunting or swinging at the SG's at any point, only level 13.

[Lyrith]

Its fixed, everyone can rest easy.

It's so hard to trust you... but you might... just... make me.... a... Juhstin Beliber!

[Juhstin]

For sure? Died three times last night from people training SG's in oasis - I am hoping it was unintentional and the sit agro thing had their plan all jacked up. Was sitting on the end of the dock to memm spells after second body recovery - SG standing on other side of the stone pillar doing nothing (mind you I have done this many times on live back in the day and recently with NO problem at that distance), the second I sat and my spell book popped up - he made a beeline for me and smoked me again. Also note that I was not hunting or swinging at the SG's at any point, only level 13.

You said last night so that makes sense.

Try today and see if you encounter the same problems.

[Andragore]

........you first.......ha ha. Will do, going to have SoW this time though just in case.......<fingers crossed>

[Nirgon]

Can't wait to click around and see this in action.

Would be even more excited to see a mob rampage demo.

[Gadwen]

Sit aggro is definitely classic, it has been almost non-existent on this server for a long time. Anyone else remember actually having to wait for the tank to get aggro before you could cast and sit down safely...shit I remember just attempting to slow 1 time and getting a resist would make it impossible for me to sit down through entire fights.

I haven't seen how it has been implemented now as I haven't played since the patch so I'm not sure how close it is to live.

[Yoite]

i remember casters not being able to sit the whole fight due to slow resist and the like and/or bad tank threat, but i dont recall so much ping pong agro on all people sitting when the mob is incoming. maybe if the puller just used prox agro to pull, but usually at least some dmg or spell would "claim" the mob to that player and it would not do like it is doing right now. too much ping pong.

[Nirgon]

The ping ponging is people learning not to sit on pulls.

[jarshale]

My necro and a mage (both of us around level 20) ping ponged Slate back and forth near the tunnel for close to an hour once. Now that they made this change, will this work with any mob and it won't aggro pets?

[August]

Last night on my monk in lguk I pulled a mob and began killing it. Got it to around 40%.

Enchanter walks up next to me, not in group. He sits to med a spell (I think a haste!) , mob peels off of me and starts wailing on him.

Totally classic

[Kazi]

Same time in lguk last night, sit agro worked pretty much as it did on live even before the hot patch. I don't know why the experiences would be so disparate.

[fadetree]

The mechanic itself is classic. The implementation here needs some tweaking.

[nilzark]

The mechanic itself is classic. The implementation here needs some tweaking.

Agreed. Sitting was dangerous near any mob, even greens. But I do not remember Ping-Pong being a tactic.

[Skydash]

Some of you have pretty fuzzy memories. Classic was NOT like this. Not even CLOSE to like this. The only way sit aggro was ever a factor is if you body pulled shit or used a low dmg throwing weapon and dragged a mob OVER somebody sitting down then they'd get smacked. If the mob was dmg'd 5-10% and you did nothing to it then sit aggro was a non-factor even if it was dragged past your face. I played from beta phase 3 til prophecy of ro expansion and NEVER in regular exp groups did I have to stand up on every god damn pull to avoid being hit and I played almost exclusively casters that were sitting on every inc.

This is true.

People have bad memories after 10+ years, but this guy is dead on.
The only time sit agro was a problem was when a monk would body pull (I played a monk from Classic to Velious).
Sitting on a pull from Hate/Fear was always worse, because usually a monk would bring 2+ on a body pull.

When someone is fighting near you, the mob never added you to the hate list if you were sitting and not in the group.

I tried posting the relevant patch notes in the game mechanics thread about this to show that Live had significantly screwed up agro at one point and had to fix it. I warned not to implement bugs as features of classic garbage. But there are squeekier wheels then mine on this bus.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

This is true.

People have bad memories after 10+ years, but this guy is dead on.
The only time sit agro was a problem was when a monk would body pull (I played a monk from Classic to Velious).
Sitting on a pull from Hate/Fear was always worse, because usually a monk would bring 2+ on a body pull.

When someone is fighting near you, the mob never added you to the hate list if you were sitting and not in the group.

I tried posting the relevant patch notes in the game mechanics thread about this to show that Live had significantly screwed up agro at one point and had to fix it. I warned not to implement bugs as features of classic garbage. But there are squeekier wheels then mine on this bus.

Going to have to 3rd this. The change brought it to the forefront but I would hazard a guess to say that classic was closer to pre-patch then it was post-patch.

This thread should be stickied and serve as a reminder/evidence why staff is reluctant to use conjecture with regards to changing mechanics. Sometimes it's the only option but nevertheless, read back the 13 pages or so and count out how many people parroted the "SHITS CLASSIC STOP QQing!!".

[Kazi]

Lol because your recollections of live must be truer than others' because they're not parroting what you're parroting? Sit agro was a fact of life if, as the guy you're quoting quoted, the mob didn't have sufficient agro developed on the puller.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Lol because your recollections of live must be truer than others' because they're not parroting what you're parroting? Sit agro was a fact of life if, as the guy you're quoting quoted, the mob didn't have sufficient agro developed on the puller.

Which is likely the reason 5% assist was something common on live as an arbitrarily low amount of damage was apparently sufficient to overcome sit-agro (even with warriors who generate the least amount of agro). And it's not a matter of my memory being better than others - it has everything to do with the fact that if conjecture created it, conjecture will correct it. The level of support for/against in this case would definitely play into the speed or priority it gets fixed in. If this mechanic were not responsible for creating some extremely obvious exploits how fast do you think it would have been corrected?

My apologies for sounding condescending - the overwhelming feeling I get from reading a thread like this is a good amount of very vocal players value other players' tears over getting something that was very obviously true on live to work correctly.

[Velerin]

I think the people saying that change was classic didn't play yesterday. It was hilarious and crazily exploitable. Haven't tried since the fix today. Hope its much better.

[Nirgon]

Try not sitting so close to the mob and you will have that classic memory again :P.

[Callon]

The mechanic itself is classic. The implementation here needs some tweaking.

Was just watching a stream of guy in a OT group near FM zoneline. Guy outside of group nukes a mob (believe was down to ~85% after nuke) and run pasts group. Chanter in group gets aggro instantly because medding in path of mob and resulted in guy claiming they just stole his mob. The group then retorts back that he trained the mob on them.

Luckily they all now know sit aggro was added, but still caused accusations to be made initially.

[Haynar]

I think the people saying that change was classic didn't play yesterday. It was hilarious and crazily exploitable. Haven't tried since the fix today. Hope its much better.

All the deaths from sitting were classic. The changes were off. So adjustments were made. We are observing those results and will make addition tweaks as we see fit.

Haynar

[Velerin]

Good to hear. Yeah will be nice to have classic sit aggro mechanics. Just meant it was funny how extreme it was yesterday. Look forward to seeing the new adjustments. I understand its a work in progress. Thanks for the all the hard work!

[Andragore]

Good to hear. Yeah will be nice to have classic sit aggro mechanics. Just meant it was funny how extreme it was yesterday. Look forward to seeing the new adjustments. I understand its a work in progress. Thanks for the all the hard work!

/agree - you are really doing something awesome that I could not pull off - so thanks!

[Juhstin]

All the deaths from sitting were classic. The changes were off. So adjustments were made. We are observing those results and will make addition tweaks as we see fit.

Haynar

So far so good. But can you set it so if you sit in Old Seb you aggro the whole zone? But only for that zone.

[fadetree]

Nobody is saying that the mechanic itself is not classic. If they are, they're wrong. What we are saying is that its implemented badly here on p1999 currently; the aggro is too high.

THE AGGRO's TOO DAMN HIGH!

*edit*

err unless they just fixed it. Anyone check recently?

[Haynar]

Nobody is saying that the mechanic itself is not classic. If they are, they're wrong. What we are saying is that its implemented badly here on p1999 currently; the aggro is too high.

THE AGGRO's TOO DAMN HIGH!

*edit*

err unless they just fixed it. Anyone check recently?
Patched last night.

[Kender]

not sitting on raid pulls was essential and caused huge problems on live if 1 or more of the healers were sitting on the pull. It generally became a non issue ion luclin when you could sit on your mount and not get the sorta agro that would make you a target

[Hollywood]

Patched last night.

Really, cause it's pretty much the same.

Again, is there some confusion over proximity range and sit aggro?

And why did we get this now?

[Swish]

Played a bit on my cleric earlier for the first time in months... its funny how sit aggro means you gotta group heal everyone way more often than before.

Hope it gets tweaked, nobody should ever take a faction hit if they didn't engage a mob.

Could I technically pull an EC guard to the tunnel, kill it and give everyone negative FP faction?... needs fixing :p

[Haynar]

You still got faction hits? That should not happen after patch last night.

H

[Haynar]

Might get faction hit if u heal urself. Not sure. Need to look at that.

H

[Burt]

Some of you have pretty fuzzy memories. Classic was NOT like this. Not even CLOSE to like this. The only way sit aggro was ever a factor is if you body pulled shit or used a low dmg throwing weapon and dragged a mob OVER somebody sitting down then they'd get smacked. If the mob was dmg'd 5-10% and you did nothing to it then sit aggro was a non-factor even if it was dragged past your face. I played from beta phase 3 til prophecy of ro expansion and NEVER in regular exp groups did I have to stand up on every god damn pull to avoid being hit and I played almost exclusively casters that were sitting on every inc.

^^ This. Not sure what game some of you were playing back then, but this is how it was in classic. I have fond memories grouping in OT on my troll warrior chain pulling 3-4 mobs at a time with just a bow shot and pulling them all into camp with a bunch of sitting casters with them glued to me till the chanter CC'd em.

[hoots123]

played in an guk group as a chanter since the patch, its game breaking to me. if the tank is pulling you cant med. so if the tank is chain pulling 200 mobs an hour i have to stand 200 extra times.. we even hid the druid behind a wall and mobs hit me then run over and hit him behind the wall. it really kills the mana regen. i had no issues with sitting and getting aggro before this patch hit last night. but the way it is now is game breaking to me :( we should all play bards or melee since they dont have to sit. every single pull it aggros. had a guy login beside our group and he died from our pull for no reason at all.

if you want it exactly like classic i guess we should also add in we all get max bandwidth of a 28.8 modem since we all used dialup back then. and add in some lag as well.

[Vellaen]

Some of you have pretty fuzzy memories. Classic was NOT like this. Not even CLOSE to like this. The only way sit aggro was ever a factor is if you body pulled shit or used a low dmg throwing weapon and dragged a mob OVER somebody sitting down then they'd get smacked. If the mob was dmg'd 5-10% and you did nothing to it then sit aggro was a non-factor even if it was dragged past your face. I played from beta phase 3 til prophecy of ro expansion and NEVER in regular exp groups did I have to stand up on every god damn pull to avoid being hit and I played almost exclusively casters that were sitting on every inc.

Going to agree with this as well. Things may have worked different in Fear - enough people are remembering that specific example to convince me - but that doesn't mean it was the same everywhere. Fifteen-year-old memories are always fuzzy, but I don't recall having to stand on incoming for every pull of every XP grinding group from Crushbone Hill on up.

As I recall, sit aggro was a multiplier, not a taunt. If a cleric sat too soon after an early heal, or a wizard after nuking, it would be enough to draw aggro even if the spell itself didn't do it. But until you actually did something to get on the mob's hate list, you were safe to sit as long as you weren't too close (read: within the mob's normal aggro radius).

This was how folks trained back in the day: get proximity aggro on a mob and run it into sitting players, who would draw aggro not solely because they were sitting, but because they were sitting and the original aggressor hadn't done enough to overcome the multiplier. It was not a mechanic that the average player in a group grinding in Overthere had to account for during pulls.

[Danth]

Serious gamers had broadband in 1999. Game lagged sometimes anyway because the host servers used ancient technology compared to modern hardware.

The main side effect of this patch is that it renders Warriors even more helpless in experience groups than they were before. It gives groups a good reason to invite those Paladins and Shadow Knights!

Danth

[Splorf22]

Patched last night.

We killed the bees right before the patch and it was obnoxious as hell. I don't think the new patch will change it all that much; the key thing is everyone will still be on the hate list.

Are you going to flag them as mezzable/charmable now (it's classic!) ?

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

This is unfortunate to hear. Haven't logged on to see the changes but it's pretty game breaking.

[Yoite]

ok everyone remember Fanzy the bard right? trained sand giants on everyone and was a funny guy. His trains would work, work in that they would attack others, because all he would do is run past them, not doing any dmg.

In that case and pretty much only in that case, proximity agro pull, should sitters get agro.

Were you ever agroed by the mob a druid or necro was kitting? No. But currently you can dmg a mob to even 50% alone then bring it into camp and bam he attacks sitters. This is just way too high. You should only have to do a single attack basically, not even 2% or even 1% of its hp in dmg, just attack it with a hit or spell, and its after you now and your agro will overcome anyone's sitting agro.

[odiecat99]

Agreed. Sitting was dangerous near any mob, even greens. But I do not remember Ping-Pong being a tactic.

yup

[Fysts]

Sitting increased your agro range and was like a taunt. However sitting did not automatically add you to a mobs hate list. When you proximity aggro a mob you are added to the hate list, but you do not generate hate. If a mob does not aggro you from say range 50 and you sit, the mob might then aggro you because you have become an easier target. Anyone who played classic can tell you a green mob might not aggro you, but if you sat down, he would walk up and hit you. Sitting however DID NOT, overwrite a person who had generated hate with damage or a spell. Playing a SK on live, I COULD pull all day long with a debuff and the people sitting in my group would NEVER get aggrod on my pull. Now if i proximity aggrod a mob, or picked up a 2nd mob, then the sitter might draw aggro on the 2nd mob. Sits biggest aggro effect was after casting a spell, but it seemed p99 was already pretty in tune with that and it worked extremely fine, the only thing p99 failed was sitting aggroing mobs that were simply pulled by proximity aggro. Reason being is you can open an encounter log but never generate hate with proximity aggro, but as soon as you start beating on a mob and generating hate, simply sitting or running into someone sitting should never cause the mob to disengage off you. The sitting aggro mechanic is WRONG on p99 currently. BTW sitting mechanic has never changed on live, simply log on and try it, it still works as it did in classic.

[Penish]

I, for one... Love this change (Its definitely classic) And is really going to help rid this server of its mouth breather's and generally useless rejects.

This is a GOOD change, and it definatly feels more classic. Time too buck up .

[Fysts]

4. If you sit down WHILE you are on a mob hate list, you will infuriate the mob.\

Aggro can be broken down into Hate + bonus

The hate portion is what you would commonly call aggro by itself, this is
the actual value of hate you have.
The bonus part, varies with a few things, like distance to mob, if you are
sitting or not etc. The closest person to the mob gets a bonus for proximity
more than others. (Low hp aggro is also a result from a huge (would say
almost infinite) bonus)

What this basically means is, you can have less hate than a caster who is
sitting far away, and more aggro - but - when they sit for example, their
bonus takes them over you're total aggro, and the mob makes a beeline for
them.

Taunt as a skill, puts you to the top of the hate list. Chaining taunt when
you have aggro already is pretty much futile, it does nothing if you are the
one at the top. However, periodically taunting can be a good thing, as this
makes sure that its not just bonus thats keeping the mob fixed on you.

This is from old school everquest live, it specifically states sitting just modifies the hate you currently have generated on the mob.

Therefore, on a pull only proximity aggro mob would go after a person sitting, as both people would have generated 0 hate, but the sitting person bonus hate would make them the target. If warrior has 200 hate generated and healer generates say 170 hate then sits he draws aggro due to the sitting bonus, but HE HAS TO BE ON HATE LIST!

[Fysts]

Quote:
Melee Hate: Dmg + Dmg Bonus*class modifier = hate per swing (before hate mods/buffs)
(the class modifier is different for every class, and is fairly small so not significant for the purposes of 'fuzzy math' calculations of hate per swing or hate per minute via swing.)
NOTE: tests have shown that you generate hate per swing based on the above formula - how much hate you generate is NOT changed by whether you 'hit' or 'miss', it is NOT changed by how much damage you do in the hit - ie, a low damage or high damage hit, or a crit, etc.
Quote:
How Hate and Aggro works:
All mobs have a Hate List. Think of this as a spreadsheet - the spreadsheet has the name of every person the mob AI is aware of, and a numeric value assigned to them. The person with the highest number is the person who the mob attacks.

Special notes and rules about hate and how it works:
1. The person with the highest numeric value on the hate list is who gets attacked.

2. To make a mob change who it is attacking, you need to have +3 hate more than the currently highest person on the hate list (ie, if a rogue gets aggro and has 1000 hate, you need to generate 1003 hate to make it attack you)

3. Taunt sets your hate as equal to the highest person on the list +1 - meaning that taunt, by itself, can NEVER change aggro from someone else to you.

4. Pressing taunt when you're already on aggro does nothing.

Special notes and rules on how mobs deal with hate and how their AI works:
1. The first action you performed on a mob with no hate list is hard capped - you can not generate more than 150 hate on the first action against a mob. There are 3 exceptions to this rule, and 3 exceptions only: Sk terror spells, paladin stun spells (not AAs), and paladin crush spells - these all bypass the hard cap and give you the full amount of hate listed in the spell, so these should *always* be the first thing you use against any mob.

2. Mobs have a dynamic hate modifier based on several factors and actions, and certain types of mobs have additional rules. Example: mobs assign dynamic hate values based on proximity, so moving away from a mob actually reduces your hate on it and gives bonus hate to people closer to it. Undead and animals have a double value for this proximity bonus. sitting gives you bonus hate, but only while you're sitting. certain mobs are flagged as 'smart' and assign bonus hate to heal spells and debuffs.

3. pets and hate: this is somewhere between a bug and just a quirk of how the game works.
a pet (mage pet, necro pet, bst pet, etc) can and will tank if two conditions are met: it's highest on the hate list, and no PCs are in proximity.
if a player is in proximity of an NPC, the NPC will attack the player regardless of its position on the hate list relative to the pet.
(ie, if the pet has 1500 hate and the player has 500 hate, it will still attack the player)
this can result in the following scenario:
player A and pet B are attacking mob C, with tank D standing a short distance away.
tank D uses spells/discs to generate hate on mob C, to the point where they have more hate than player A.
however, pet B is attacking and has taunt on, meaning it keeps pulling aggro, but since player A is in proximity the mob keeps attacking player A, even though tank C has more hate.
Quote:
Generating Hate: the numbers behind the sparkles.

1. DD spells give 1 point of hate per 1 point of *base* damage - ie, the number listed in the spell. Bonus damage from focus effects/mods do NOT cause additional hate. bonus damage from critical hits do NOT cause additional hate (this includes procs).

2. Heal spells give 1 point of hate per 1 point of healing done - the bigger the heal, the more hate it generates. A heal cast on someone with full HP will generate effectively 0 hate.
(Note that some mobs are coded to have a hate modifier regarding heals, but these inconsistent in the game world and not something you normally need to worry about)

3. Rune spells give 2 points of hate per 1 point of rune to every NPC that has you on its hate list - meaning that runes (and rune procs) are basically AE hate.

4. Stuns scale really weird and are very difficult to figure out how much hate they generate. Basically, stun spells generate hate based on a formula which uses the mob's max HP as a modifier, so it's functionally impossible to work out the exact hate value of a stun spell. Also there are lots of weird rules about whether the stun lands, or if the mob is immune, or level capped (exception to this being #6 below).

5. Melee gives a set amount of hate *per swing* regardless of whether you hit, miss, are dodged, parried, riposted, how much you hit for, and whether you get a critical hit (ie, how much damage you do per hit, and even if you hit at all, means nothing - it's a set amount of hate per swing).

The formula for how much hate you generate per swing is: damage + damage bonus (times hate mod, if applicable) = hate per swing.

6. The exception to ALL of these rules are what are called 'hate override' spells.
These are: SK Terror spells, pal crush and stun spells, war aggro disciplines.

*If you go to lucy.allakhazam.com, you will see these spells have a special 'hate generated' field, any spell with this field bypasses all other normal rules for hate generation and always gives the amount listed.

7. Hate mods (ie, from masks or buffs) add their listed % to *everything* that you do... spells, melee, healing, everything.

[Quineloe]

We killed the bees right before the patch and it was obnoxious as hell. I don't think the new patch will change it all that much; the key thing is everyone will still be on the hate list.

Are you going to flag them as mezzable/charmable now (it's classic!) ?

and people called me out for being wrong about this, lol.

[Ihova]

This needs to be fixed..........

As a warrior, pulling with a bow, im losing aggro as soon as i get mob to camp b/c casters are sittn it over rides what little aggro i get from the damn bow....

Sit Aggro (Classic or otherwise) only put you on the list if you got x distance to a mob, not over riding minor damage done or the proximity of the puller to the add.

The only other thing sit did was act as a multiplier of some type if you sat after casting spells.

Fix it please.....

[fastboy21]

the hot fix def made it better, but i think there is still some tweaking needed.

[Volkier]

This is getting ridiculous. Sure sitting should generate a bit of aggro to put a player on their aggro list (which seemed to already be the case, and which was the case in classic) - but the state it's currently in is completely broken. Warriors cannot pull, their taunt doesn't put him above the sitting players aggro wise on the aggro list, and sitting seems to generate more aggro than 20% worth of damage done to the mob. Please for the love of everything holy fix this bug. And yes - that's exactly what it is - a bug, simply because there is no way this makes any sense.

[coki]

hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr fix fix fix

[Yoite]

posted this in bug forums but posting again here for more view

did some testing again tonight. I did each of these multiple times to prove repeatability before coming here to post.

case 1 - Body pulling.

can body pull and bring mob into camp. Before mob has a chance to attack sitters I would engage with a taunt, bash, and attack. Even when taunt worked (got you will not evade me soandso) and even when bash landed and stunned them, and even when both of those worked and mob was attacked by my melee dmg before bash stun wore off, the mob will still attack sitter before returning to me.

In this case where the taunt landed, and then I was the only one to perform actions after mob was taunted and while it was stunned with bash, I should have been at the top of agro via taunt and well above anyone else with the bash and attack since no one had done anything to the mobs at this time.

Case 2 - Attacking mob with melee attack and bash.

In this case i would bash and then attack the mob with 1 melee round before bringing into camp. In most cases this would still result in the mob attacking ALL sitting players before coming back to me.

The only exception was if my bash and attack round did enough dmg to lower the mob past appox 85% hp.

case 3 - attacking mob for several rounds before pulling into camp.

If i soloed the mob to 50% of hp before then pulling back to group, it would stay on me and not attack any sitters.
If i soloed the mob to 85% of hp before then pulling back to group it may or may not attack sitters.
If i soloed the mob to 95% of hp before then pulling back to group it would still attack sitters before returning to me.

While this is by no means a viable way to pull as you will usually die trying to solo a mob before bringing in I was able to test this using a twink that could take the hits and do enough dmg.


This shows a few things to me. One is the sit agro is still way to high, on live a single attack was enough to hold the mob on you over sit agro. remember agro from melee attacks does not matter if you miss or hit. The other is sit agro is either so high or is not taking into consideration taunt or something else weird. I cant understand how the mobs are still attacking sitters even after a successful taunt, bash stun, and melee round.


i hope this helps =)

[Juhstin]

the hot fix def made it better, but i think there is still some tweaking needed.

[Tecmos Deception]

What more tweaks you do non-insane (OMG MY WARRIOR IS BROKED CAUSE MY GROUPMATES ARE ALL DUMB) people think this needs?

I duod with a 32 sham on my 33 necro yesterday. No matter how he pulled a mob, if I was sitting I would get aggrod. But it only took like 2 rounds from his GFG or 1 more spell and I could sit freely right on top of the mob (which would still be at like 90% or higher hp). What is so brutally gamebreaking about that? Lol.

Even my shitty little light-blue necro pet did enough threat at the start of a fight that within 10 seconds or so that I could sit near him without getting sit aggro.

[1203jjt]

the hot fix def made it better, but i think there is still some tweaking needed.

+1 The only way we could do it last night was for me to use my snare/slow combo song, which really pisses them off. Our poor warrior was useless running in circles between all the sitting casters.

[Tecmos Deception]

Recurring theme here is, "warrior can't keep aggro off of the sitting casters at the start of the pull."

Why not just stand up for a tick or two? Or find classic evidence that warriors were snap aggro gods? :rolleyes:

[Yoite]

Tecmos while its not really game breaking, its def not classic, and its extremely annoying. It is also imo a bug, since taunt should put you at the top of the list, and being at the top + a bash and attack should put you well ahead everyone else, and in this case the only other people on the agro list would be the people sitting, since no one had taken any actions at all on the mob.

I dont see how sit agro should be higher than a taunt, bash, attack. I understand wanted to get this implemented but it still needs tweaking.

[Juhstin]

Why not just stand up for a tick or two? Or find classic evidence that warriors were snap aggro gods? :rolleyes:

How dare you ask casters to be considerate and stand for a moment longer than they normally would. How DARE you!

[odiecat99]

Troof^

[Tecmos Deception]

Tecmos while its not really game breaking, its def not classic, and its extremely annoying. It is also imo a bug, since taunt should put you at the top of the list, and being at the top + a bash and attack should put you well ahead everyone else, and in this case the only other people on the agro list would be the people sitting, since no one had taken any actions at all on the mob.

I dont see how sit agro should be higher than a taunt, bash, attack. I understand wanted to get this implemented but it still needs tweaking.

You got a taunt success message and the mob still ignored you for the sitting folk?

[Yoite]

You got a taunt success message and the mob still ignored you for the sitting folk?

yes, i posted a breakdown in the bug section, but he is a short recap.

Using a 24 pally to pull and tank with.

pull mob with prox agro only. When mob is coming into camp i intercept it before it can attack the sitters as i ran up ahead of them. Taunt DID work (you will not evade me soandso) Bash DID work, mob was stunned and did not move or attack. During time it was stunned I also attacked it.

Even with all 3 actions it STILL attacked ALL sitting players. Once it had attacked the sitters it came back to me.

Im leaving work right now, ill be back in about an hour to discuss more.

[Tecmos Deception]

Using a 24 pally to pull and tank with.

pull mob with prox agro only. When mob is coming into camp i intercept it before it can attack the sitters as i ran up ahead of them. Taunt DID work (you will not evade me soandso) Bash DID work, mob was stunned and did not move or attack. During time it was stunned I also attacked it.

Even with all 3 actions it STILL attacked ALL sitting players.

Here's the thing about your taunts it looks like: timing.

If you stopped to taunt before you were at the camp, then you were the only person on the aggro list and taunting the mob didn't do squat. Remember, taunt only puts you up to a threat level equal to JUST higher than the highest person on the list.


Maybe what is on the server right now isn't classic, but if that is the case you guys need to find proof of that to convince the staff to implement a change.

[Fysts]

Tecmos I did post proof, straight on how aggro works from a everquest classic dev. Sit was a bonus to aggro, WHILE on the hate list. Meaning it only increased your already aggro on a mob. The only way a sitting player would get aggro on an inc mob, is if that mob was aggro by proximity only, then if the tank was fast enough to step infront of the sitting players and generate aggro, they would not even get aggro then. Basically sitting really only came into play majorly after casting a spell and then sitting because if say heal did 400 aggro and you sat it would bonus it out to say 550 aggro, but the bonus would disappear soon as you stood. Also it seems they added sit aggro, but they never added the proximity aggro bonus. Read my earlier posts, it explains all this.

[Fysts]

4. If you sit down WHILE you are on a mob hate list, you will infuriate the mob.\

Aggro can be broken down into Hate + bonus

The hate portion is what you would commonly call aggro by itself, this is
the actual value of hate you have.
The bonus part, varies with a few things, like distance to mob, if you are
sitting or not etc. The closest person to the mob gets a bonus for proximity
more than others. (Low hp aggro is also a result from a huge (would say
almost infinite) bonus)

What this basically means is, you can have less hate than a caster who is
sitting far away, and more aggro - but - when they sit for example, their
bonus takes them over you're total aggro, and the mob makes a beeline for
them.

Taunt as a skill, puts you to the top of the hate list. Chaining taunt when
you have aggro already is pretty much futile, it does nothing if you are the
one at the top. However, periodically taunting can be a good thing, as this
makes sure that its not just bonus thats keeping the mob fixed on you.

This is from old school everquest live, it specifically states sitting just modifies the hate you currently have generated on the mob.

Therefore, on a pull only proximity aggro mob would go after a person sitting, as both people would have generated 0 hate, but the sitting person bonus hate would make them the target. If warrior has 200 hate generated and healer generates say 170 hate then sits he draws aggro due to the sitting bonus, but HE HAS TO BE ON HATE LIST!

[Fysts]

Quote:
Melee Hate: Dmg + Dmg Bonus*class modifier = hate per swing (before hate mods/buffs)
(the class modifier is different for every class, and is fairly small so not significant for the purposes of 'fuzzy math' calculations of hate per swing or hate per minute via swing.)
NOTE: tests have shown that you generate hate per swing based on the above formula - how much hate you generate is NOT changed by whether you 'hit' or 'miss', it is NOT changed by how much damage you do in the hit - ie, a low damage or high damage hit, or a crit, etc.
Quote:
How Hate and Aggro works:
All mobs have a Hate List. Think of this as a spreadsheet - the spreadsheet has the name of every person the mob AI is aware of, and a numeric value assigned to them. The person with the highest number is the person who the mob attacks.

Special notes and rules about hate and how it works:
1. The person with the highest numeric value on the hate list is who gets attacked.

2. To make a mob change who it is attacking, you need to have +3 hate more than the currently highest person on the hate list (ie, if a rogue gets aggro and has 1000 hate, you need to generate 1003 hate to make it attack you)

3. Taunt sets your hate as equal to the highest person on the list +1 - meaning that taunt, by itself, can NEVER change aggro from someone else to you.

4. Pressing taunt when you're already on aggro does nothing.

Special notes and rules on how mobs deal with hate and how their AI works:
1. The first action you performed on a mob with no hate list is hard capped - you can not generate more than 150 hate on the first action against a mob. There are 3 exceptions to this rule, and 3 exceptions only: Sk terror spells, paladin stun spells (not AAs), and paladin crush spells - these all bypass the hard cap and give you the full amount of hate listed in the spell, so these should *always* be the first thing you use against any mob.

2. Mobs have a dynamic hate modifier based on several factors and actions, and certain types of mobs have additional rules. Example: mobs assign dynamic hate values based on proximity, so moving away from a mob actually reduces your hate on it and gives bonus hate to people closer to it. Undead and animals have a double value for this proximity bonus. sitting gives you bonus hate, but only while you're sitting. certain mobs are flagged as 'smart' and assign bonus hate to heal spells and debuffs.

3. pets and hate: this is somewhere between a bug and just a quirk of how the game works.
a pet (mage pet, necro pet, bst pet, etc) can and will tank if two conditions are met: it's highest on the hate list, and no PCs are in proximity.
if a player is in proximity of an NPC, the NPC will attack the player regardless of its position on the hate list relative to the pet.
(ie, if the pet has 1500 hate and the player has 500 hate, it will still attack the player)
this can result in the following scenario:
player A and pet B are attacking mob C, with tank D standing a short distance away.
tank D uses spells/discs to generate hate on mob C, to the point where they have more hate than player A.
however, pet B is attacking and has taunt on, meaning it keeps pulling aggro, but since player A is in proximity the mob keeps attacking player A, even though tank C has more hate.
Quote:
Generating Hate: the numbers behind the sparkles.

1. DD spells give 1 point of hate per 1 point of *base* damage - ie, the number listed in the spell. Bonus damage from focus effects/mods do NOT cause additional hate. bonus damage from critical hits do NOT cause additional hate (this includes procs).

2. Heal spells give 1 point of hate per 1 point of healing done - the bigger the heal, the more hate it generates. A heal cast on someone with full HP will generate effectively 0 hate.
(Note that some mobs are coded to have a hate modifier regarding heals, but these inconsistent in the game world and not something you normally need to worry about)

3. Rune spells give 2 points of hate per 1 point of rune to every NPC that has you on its hate list - meaning that runes (and rune procs) are basically AE hate.

4. Stuns scale really weird and are very difficult to figure out how much hate they generate. Basically, stun spells generate hate based on a formula which uses the mob's max HP as a modifier, so it's functionally impossible to work out the exact hate value of a stun spell. Also there are lots of weird rules about whether the stun lands, or if the mob is immune, or level capped (exception to this being #6 below).

5. Melee gives a set amount of hate *per swing* regardless of whether you hit, miss, are dodged, parried, riposted, how much you hit for, and whether you get a critical hit (ie, how much damage you do per hit, and even if you hit at all, means nothing - it's a set amount of hate per swing).

The formula for how much hate you generate per swing is: damage + damage bonus (times hate mod, if applicable) = hate per swing.

6. The exception to ALL of these rules are what are called 'hate override' spells.
These are: SK Terror spells, pal crush and stun spells, war aggro disciplines.

*If you go to lucy.allakhazam.com, you will see these spells have a special 'hate generated' field, any spell with this field bypasses all other normal rules for hate generation and always gives the amount listed.

7. Hate mods (ie, from masks or buffs) add their listed % to *everything* that you do... spells, melee, healing, everything.

[Tecmos Deception]

Sit was a bonus to aggro, WHILE on the hate list. Meaning it only increased your already aggro on a mob. The only way a sitting player would get aggro on an inc mob, is if that mob was aggro by proximity only, then if the tank was fast enough to step infront of the sitting players and generate aggro, they would not even get aggro then.

I don't see how this description isn't what is happening now. When sitting, aggro radii are huge on p99 (since a patch like... I dunno... 3-4 months ago I think?), so when you pull a mob into camp and people are sitting, they get added to the aggro list and then the hate modifier for being sitting is tacked on immediately.

I don't see anything in your posts about how classic warriors could intercept a mob with a round or two of melee, as they dash towards sitting casters, and pull aggro. I also don't see any proof that this stuff applies to classic-kunark EQ; the posts are discussing spells that don't exist until after Velious and AAs and stuff.

Not trying to be a troll, just working with my less-than-complete knowledge of this entire monster of a thread :p

[Juhstin]

Need more data

[Yoite]

Here's the thing about your taunts it looks like: timing.

If you stopped to taunt before you were at the camp, then you were the only person on the aggro list and taunting the mob didn't do squat. Remember, taunt only puts you up to a threat level equal to JUST higher than the highest person on the list.


Maybe what is on the server right now isn't classic, but if that is the case you guys need to find proof of that to convince the staff to implement a change.

in regards to the timing, the mob was close enough in camp that it would agro the sitters. Additionally, the mob was already in route to a sitter when i preformed this series of actions( i waited for it to come around the corner and down the hallway and as it came into the room and started to head for the closest sitter i ran forward and did taunt bash attack. I also did this multiple times to be sure it was repeatable.

After the taunt, bash, attack, it went for the sitters right away, i didnt drag it any further, at that point it was already in the camp. I just ran up and did taunt, bash, attack before it had to chance to reach the 1st sitter it was trying to attack. Alas, it did still went for the sitter and only came back to me once all sitters had been hit.

While i understand that a taunt alone would not be enough, that is why i did a bash and attack as well. At this point since it was in camp, the sitters were on its agro list before i taunted. So that should have put me 1 point above the sitters and the bash and attack should have been enough to keep the mob on me since no one had done anything else yet.

[Yoite]

something else to consider is that if you body pull and run over a sitter with your mobs, they will attack them and stay on them.

In this case it would appear i did build hate, and i would appear i was #1 in the list, but sit agro seems to be over-ridding the hate list. In this case, the mob did return to me once it had hit all the sitters


From my testing last night, it would seem that only way to avoid mobs attacking sitters on incoming is to dmg the mob past a certain hp threshold. no other actions seem to override sit agro. Only once the sitters have been hit and standing will it go back to normal functions

[Volkier]

Recurring theme here is, "warrior can't keep aggro off of the sitting casters at the start of the pull."

Why not just stand up for a tick or two? Or find classic evidence that warriors were snap aggro gods? :rolleyes:

They were not. They were by far the worst sustain aggro class of all tanks. But their taunt would put them on top of aggro list for that one moment - they just perhaps would not keep aggro straight after if someone in the group is dumb and doesn't control their aggro.

If you are going to suggest that classic bugs are brought in on the grounds that they existed in classic - this is DEFINITELY not the way sit aggro worked. The only time I clearly recall EQ having a similar issue, was after luclin expansion and after SOE took over, when they tried to mess around with some numbers. It lasted for about three hours before the problem was rectified. It might also have existed for a short time during EQ beta (which I wouldn't know, and if one existed back in those days since I don't recall games being in public open beta all that much).

Regardless all of the above, having to solo a mob to 90% before pulling to the group, and the mob blatantly ignoring actual aggro generation mechanic because someone somewhere is sitting, is a broken mechanic. That definitely did not exist through the working definition of classic, non classic, or any subsequent sensible train of thought - unless in a state of a significant bug. As such, if this is an introduced mechanic on the grounds of "classic" - it's not and needs to be fixed. If this is an introduced mechanic on the grounds of that the server is not as strictly "classic" as some people tend to assume it is - which in all fairness, is very reasonable and there is nothing wrong with minor tweaks and changes to an Emu server - it's a stupid mechanic that needs to be fixed. If it's a bug - which is what it feels like by any level of imagination - it needs to be fixed. Please :)

[Fysts]

I don't see how this description isn't what is happening now. When sitting, aggro radii are huge on p99 (since a patch like... I dunno... 3-4 months ago I think?), so when you pull a mob into camp and people are sitting, they get added to the aggro list and then the hate modifier for being sitting is tacked on immediately.

I don't see anything in your posts about how classic warriors could intercept a mob with a round or two of melee, as they dash towards sitting casters, and pull aggro. I also don't see any proof that this stuff applies to classic-kunark EQ; the posts are discussing spells that don't exist until after Velious and AAs and stuff.

Not trying to be a troll, just working with my less-than-complete knowledge of this entire monster of a thread :p

If you have 0 hate and bonus it guess what you have 0 hate........so pulling a mob with a hate spell or dmg generating hate, outdoes sitting aggro.

[Bill Tetley]

As a warrior the only big/annoying difference with sit aggro I've notice is that when I taunt a mezzed mob and then break the mezz the mob goes right for somebody sitting 100% of the time instead of me. I use to have a good chance of taunting a mezzed mob and then breaking the mezz and having it attack me. Now I can't seem to avoid the mob from attacking a sitting player on mezz break despite taunting prior to the break.

[dbouya]

on sunday it was broken. on monday the hotfix just made things more classic'er... yes sitting was a bitch back in the day you couldn't sit under a mob and expect it not to thwap you once.


all that said aggro through walls is problematic but is perhaps a separate problem than the amount of aggro sit gives?

[Volkier]

on sunday it was broken. on monday the hotfix just made things more classic'er... yes sitting was a bitch back in the day you couldn't sit under a mob and expect it not to thwap you once.


all that said aggro through walls is problematic but is perhaps a separate problem than the amount of aggro sit gives?

I never recall mobs ignoring all the aggro that has been generated by the tank and go smacking a sitting caster just because he is sitting in classic. Yes - it was dangerous to sit as it added a significant portion of 'bonus' aggro, but this was added to all the damage through spells and actual aggro you already had - NOT proxy aggro. The bonus to proxy aggro was minimal enough that a taunt or any other form of damage would prioritise that cause as the top of the hate list. You WOULD get hit if the mob is getting proxy-pulled, because everyone at that moment is on proxy aggro - but you are sitting so you have more, but not when damage has been done to the mob, or the mob has been taunted etc. You WOULD draw a good chunk of aggro for sitting after dealing damage or debuffing etc. but that is not the problem here. There's been countless proof of this mentioned repeatedly in this thread, along with EQ's developers' quotes. I don't understand what more explanation is required that this was not how classic functioned. Yes, sit aggro existed, but completely differently to how it is currently implemented in p99

[Danth]

Sit aggro may or may not need further tweaks--I won't make a claim either way. that being said it's not really that bad. It was pretty broken for about a day. Since then, claiming that mobs ignore all aggro and beeline to any sitting caster is not accurate. I can pull stuff directly over the wife when she's sitting and she doesn't get touched.

I posted in another thread, but I have a suspicion that part of the problem (at least with respect to tanks losing aggro to sitting casters) may not be the sit aggro at all. Rather it's possibly because normal melee aggro has always felt low here on P99, and this new patch really shows that for all to see.

Danth

[Volkier]

Sit aggro may or may not need further tweaks--I won't make a claim either way. that being said it's not really that bad. It was pretty broken for about a day. Since then, claiming that mobs ignore all aggro and beeline to any sitting caster is not accurate. I can pull stuff directly over the wife when she's sitting and she doesn't get touched.

I posted in another thread, but I have a suspicion that part of the problem (at least with respect to tanks losing aggro to sitting casters) may not be the sit aggro at all. Rather it's possibly because normal melee aggro has always felt low here on P99, and this new patch really shows that for all to see.

Danth

I don't know, unless there has been changes since yesterday, mobs were running right for me while I was sitting the moment they saw me - after being bashed around by the melees and having 80-90% hp. This is AFTER the mob has been bash-stunned a few times on the way to me, and the tank landed taunts in the process of doing this. All because I was sitting, and before I did a single thing to the mob. Perhaps this is less noticeable at higher levels where one hit from a melee does more damage than 20% of the low level mob - but then the mechanic is STILL broken as it should scale with level, and not be broken at lower levels.

Granted - I do admit that the aggro radius of when the mob goes for you seemed significantly less than previously - but the mechanic itself functions pretty much the same in my experience.

[Danth]

Taunt does nothing when the tank using it is already being hit/at the top of the hate list. Your tanks shouldn't waste it while pulling. The stun from bash develops essentially no special hate and should be ignored. In addition, as noted above I've always thought white damage aggro feels low on P1999.

Danth

[Volkier]

Taunt does nothing when the tank using it is already being hit/at the top of the hate list. Your tanks shouldn't waste it while pulling. The stun from bash develops essentially no special hate and should be ignored. In addition, as noted above I've always thought white damage aggro feels low on P1999.

Danth

Yes - he is taunting after the mob is running for the sitting casters. Just like it's already been mentioned repeatedly in this thread. Which is the exact mechanic that is broken, as it is not doing what it should - ie. it is not putting the tank one point on top of hate list. Sitting currently does that instead.

[Danth]

Yes - he is taunting after the mob is running for the sitting casters. Just like it's already been mentioned repeatedly in this thread. Which is the exact mechanic that is broken, as it is not doing what it should - ie. it is not putting the tank one point on top of hate list. Sitting currently does that instead.

As a guess--this is speculation only--I suspect taunt is taunting off the base hate of the caster in question, not the sit multiplier, so even after a successful taunt the caster still gets whacked. In the meantime just don't rely on white damage for hate. I've made no claim that it's fine as-is, only that it's not crippling if folks behave with it in mind.

Danth

[Volkier]

The other thing that I've just noticed, and this is MORE proof that the current mechanic is broken, is I've just noticed I lost a bunch of faction just by sitting next to someone killing a mob. I have not touched the said mob at all, the guy is not in the same group, he just happened to chase it when it was low hp past me while I was meditating. This was an Orc faction. My Dervishes faction has taken a hit too in the past two days - just because I tend to meditate at my hunting spot. This is the only explanation as neither I nor my group of dark elves, who are not KOS to dervishes to begin with have ever touched a single one of them.

Anyone else care to lie about how "this was what it was like in classic" ?

[Danth]

Full agreement there, the faction hits just from being in the vicinity is silly and broken to the extreme. I assume the final line of your post is not directed at me since I've not made such a claim.

Danth

[bartly]

Tecmos I did post proof, straight on how aggro works from a everquest classic dev. Sit was a bonus to aggro, WHILE on the hate list. Meaning it only increased your already aggro on a mob. The only way a sitting player would get aggro on an inc mob, is if that mob was aggro by proximity only, then if the tank was fast enough to step infront of the sitting players and generate aggro, they would not even get aggro then. Basically sitting really only came into play majorly after casting a spell and then sitting because if say heal did 400 aggro and you sat it would bonus it out to say 550 aggro, but the bonus would disappear soon as you stood. Also it seems they added sit aggro, but they never added the proximity aggro bonus. Read my earlier posts, it explains all this.


This makes the most sense. I would never get sit aggro on a pull unless a bard was doing something. I would med up, get up, throw a couple nukes, sit down, then "you will not evade me Bartly!" Take my lumps get called a noob get a rez, med up, nuke some more.

[Quineloe]

taunting isn't guaranteed, but if the taunt is on top of the hate list, but a caster is just below and then sits down, is he moved above the warrior on the hate list? Or is he still second, and therefore taunt cannot work?

[Volkier]

Full agreement there, the faction hits just from being in the vicinity is silly and broken to the extreme. I assume the final line of your post is not directed at me since I've not made such a claim.

Danth

Not at all. Just at the numerous people who go on about how "this was classic - suck it up", when it wasn't :)

EDIT:
Point is - the faction hit is proof that Sitting generates aggro by itself, instead of being the correct mechanic as to where it boosts the existing aggro of a player.

[baalzy]

Not at all. Just at the numerous people who go on about how "this was classic - suck it up", when it wasn't :)

EDIT:
Point is - the faction hit is proof that Sitting generates aggro by itself, instead of being the correct mechanic as to where it boosts the existing aggro of a player.

I think the problem is the way they're using proximity aggro. Instead of being added to the 'awareness' list they're being added to the normal hate list. The awareness list should mean the mob is aware of that person and will go murder them as soon as he's done murdering his current target.

Who is actively being pummeled still matters who has the higher number regardless of which list they're on, so a sitting player who is on the awareness list can still have a higher amount of hate than someone who threw a dagger at the mob and missed. The sitter shouldn't receive faction hits if they didn't do anything else.

Faction hits should only be given if the person took a negative action against the mob (either assisting a player fighting the mob, or fighting the mob yourself).

[Nirgon]

Everything about my experience last night was very classic as far as sit and proximity aggro.

I think we need the faction hits removed from indirect hate, though.

Getting used to it after having played so much P99 EQ without it took just a little adjusting.

I hope pet aggro fixes are next!

[Tecmos Deception]

I think we need the faction hits removed from indirect hate, though.

I laughed out loud last night when I got summoned by a 95% mob in south purely because of sit aggro, heh :)

[Yoite]

Nirgon plenty of people have posted evidence via links from 99 era showing that sit agro is not correct. If you really think its correct why dont you post some evidence proving so?

[casdegere]

Is this still a question at this point? There is definitely a separation between live and P1999 as far as Sit agro and faction hits.

[Colga]

Over the past couple of days, I have made some errant pulls and informed my party to just let me die (warrior so no FD). So the party does nothing, and the mobs will run to them if they're sitting down.

This definitely isn't right since the party shouldn't even be on the agro table. Example, I was pulling an Orc Centurion from the tents in CB to my party at the bridge by trainer hill, and accidently grabbed 3 legos. I died at the tents, and the pull ran all the way around by the cabin to the bridge to kill my party who was just sitting down.

I didn't start playing EQ until Dec 99 so maybe this was "classic" for March 99, but it sure as hell isn't Kunark mechanics. I had to play ghetto monk many times when I would screw up a pull in KC/Seb.

[fadetree]

It's not classic. Sit aggro is putting pc's on the wrong list.

[Ofaelol]

In East Commons, I've accidentally trained orc camp groups by running to close to them with my wolves, spiders etc. They do not touch the mobs, but are sitting and aggro when mobs that I've damaged path too close.

[Swish]

Over the past couple of days, I have made some errant pulls and informed my party to just let me die (warrior so no FD). So the party does nothing, and the mobs will run to them if they're sitting down.

This definitely isn't right since the party shouldn't even be on the agro table. Example, I was pulling an Orc Centurion from the tents in CB to my party at the bridge by trainer hill, and accidently grabbed 3 legos. I died at the tents, and the pull ran all the way around by the cabin to the bridge to kill my party who was just sitting down.

Seems fishy to me. I took a faction hit the day after the supposed fix from just sitting near drolvargs being killed in KC (ungrouped). For those preserving their faction that'll sting if it happens too often. Maybe something got patched in but sit aggro still needs a tweak :s

http://www.teen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/that-aint-right-and-she-aint-right-funny-mtv-girl-code.gif

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Seems fishy to me. I took a faction hit the day after the supposed fix from just sitting near drolvargs being killed in KC (ungrouped). For those preserving their faction that'll sting if it happens too often. Maybe something got patched in but sit aggro still needs a tweak :s

http://www.teen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/that-aint-right-and-she-aint-right-funny-mtv-girl-code.gif

Iirc that should happen if you sit around max-kos NPC's. You get added to their agro list as a result of being close regardless of whether you engage. It's broken if you get added to the agro list when the mob is non-kos to you.

[Colga]

Seems fishy to me. I took a faction hit the day after the supposed fix from just sitting near drolvargs being killed in KC (ungrouped). For those preserving their faction that'll sting if it happens too often. Maybe something got patched in but sit aggro still needs a tweak :s

http://www.teen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/that-aint-right-and-she-aint-right-funny-mtv-girl-code.gif

I thought it was weird, too. Now I tell my friends just to stand up when I give my incoming message. Kind of a pain in the ass for the casters, but we have to make lemonade with the lemons until it gets fixed.

[Tzeriel]

Just gonna say. This sit aggro is NOT classic, it IS stupid, and it IS making playing a caster on this server not fun at all.

[Volkier]

Iirc that should happen if you sit around max-kos NPC's. You get added to their agro list as a result of being close regardless of whether you engage. It's broken if you get added to the agro list when the mob is non-kos to you.

I've worked on a crap tonne of factions in 99's and 2000's playing EQ. And I don't ever remember having someone else screw my faction up just by me sitting near where they kill a mob, or near where they pathed a mob and killed it. Don't know about max KOS, but people have had faction hits from mobs which where threateningly (though I don't really haven't been in a situation where this would have been possible in the last few days since the advertised fix).

Point is, if the P99 devs like the change and want to keep it - that's great, it's their project, their server, and ultimately their decision. But can we please quit lying and pretending this somehow resembles "classic" ? To be fair, it does feel like it's being tweaked, but with that it feels like all that the tweaks are doing, is decreasing the sit aggro range instead of fixing the actual sit aggro problem. So you still have the same broken mechanic - just within a lesser radius - which is not really fixing anything imho.

[Flip]

I am more curious as to why this was ever considered to be placed on P99 in the first place.

I came to play on P99 due to the overwhelming attempt the staff has made on preserving the integrity and game play of the original classic EverQuest. As many have already mentioned, the amount of threat that sitting now generates was never this high on live, at any given point.

So really, what was the main reason for doing it?


~Flip

[Infuriati]

I don't remember casting on a mob, and while its inc having it train onto someone else from social agro. If classic, it fucking sucks.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I've worked on a crap tonne of factions in 99's and 2000's playing EQ. And I don't ever remember having someone else screw my faction up just by me sitting near where they kill a mob, or near where they pathed a mob and killed it. Don't know about max KOS, but people have had faction hits from mobs which where threateningly (though I don't really haven't been in a situation where this would have been possible in the last few days since the advertised fix).

Point is, if the P99 devs like the change and want to keep it - that's great, it's their project, their server, and ultimately their decision. But can we please quit lying and pretending this somehow resembles "classic" ? To be fair, it does feel like it's being tweaked, but with that it feels like all that the tweaks are doing, is decreasing the sit aggro range instead of fixing the actual sit aggro problem. So you still have the same broken mechanic - just within a lesser radius - which is not really fixing anything imho.

You need to read my post again bro - shits not classic at all.

There are two reasons oasis trains worked:
1) mobs were considerably higher level than the rest of the zone (sg's and spectres).
2) max kos allowed them to be dragged over players and dropped on their heads.

As I understand it, you can body pull a guard and drag it over someone transferring the agro. That shouldn't work if the target has faction with the guard.

[Yoite]

hops this isnt just being forgotten now that velious beta is out.

Plenty of links and such have been posted showing its not correct. Any update from dev team on this issue?

[Gaffin 7.0]

this def still isnt working right i was just sitting at the zone in my war in mm and a ranger pulled with nuke to zone in and it hit me, a druid, another war just sitting there then went back to aggro him after stand. when i sat again he went for me. wtf

[Swish]

Accidentally trained castle entrance at MM the other day. Was clearing the blood wolves by where black dire spawns, except I managed to get the dark elf and her gargs too...wasn't impossible but I was like #yolo and feigned death.

That should have been the end of it, but there were people medding up in the CE area, and after 5-6 seconds the mobs decided they weren't going back to their positions but would go and add on the CE group.

Think it killed 2-3 people. Something isn't right with it, shouldn't affect the Z axis that much?

[Marglar]

Accidentally trained castle entrance at MM the other day. Was clearing the blood wolves by where black dire spawns, except I managed to get the dark elf and her gargs too...wasn't impossible but I was like #yolo and feigned death.

That should have been the end of it, but there were people medding up in the CE area, and after 5-6 seconds the mobs decided they weren't going back to their positions but would go and add on the CE group.

Think it killed 2-3 people. Something isn't right with it, shouldn't affect the Z axis that much?

I've seen that happen a few times now in MM the past couple of nights.. lol. the trains are pretty ugly and everyone is confused as to all hell how it started :)

this sit aggro is really odd. seems a little overly done, I hope there are plans to revise it.