Bards & AE in zones where players XP.

[Tubben]

Since a few days there is a high lv bard who AE Kites in Lake of Ill Omen, a zone where allways alot of player lv 20-30 do xp.

For what reason he do this (wanting an certain item drop) i dont know, but the problem is that he a pulls half the zone letting no mobs to kill up, and worser lags the zone out.

I fearkite as an rogue if i dont find an group, and i am unable to hit the mobs, because they are often out of range, even if i am standing right in them, the server just have them somewhere else. Mobs warp short distances and things like this happen:

You begin to sneak...
You begin to hide...
You have moved and are no longer hidden!!
You are as quiet as a cat stalking its prey.
You have hidden yourself from view.

This 5 lines took around 2 seconds, and thats serverlag, my ping was at ~100.


My wish would be, that bards dont ae kite in zones where player do xp. I had to leave the zone now.

I know its a viable tactic, but in my opinion not where other groups xp, and LoIO is something like an xp-hub for players between 20 and 30.

I know, its like a whine, but i just dont like such behavior.

[Teppler]

I can confirm, I've been in the LoIO recently and it's sucked.

[baalzy]

Send them a tell or use /ooc if you can't figure out who they are. If they don't/won't change anything, petition them.

8. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.

- Deliberately blocking a doorway or narrow area so other players cannot get past.

- Refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by a P99CSR.

- Making excessive and inappropriate use of public channels of communications (/shout, /ooc, etc.).

- Intentionally causing excessive zone latency (creating excessive corpses, abusing spell effects, etc.).

- Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.).

[Daldaen]

If he is doing it to farm the goblin gazughi ring he should only be doing one kite them isolating the PHer. If he is PLing off a Sarnak fort train meh. LoIO is a bad zone anyways :/. Sucks when you get lag from someone's train though.

[tristantio]

Sounds like bard PL, and its way more $ / hour than farming most drops (most of the bards charge 3k/level, which for 10 to 30 would be about every 15 to 30 minutes, making them 6k+ hour).

[fastboy21]

If he is doing it to farm the goblin gazughi ring he should only be doing one kite them isolating the PHer. If he is PLing off a Sarnak fort train meh. LoIO is a bad zone anyways :/. Sucks when you get lag from someone's train though.

this is not best way to get ring...if he doing it for this reason he is a jerk AND dumb :p

[applesauce25r624]

shit sounds pretty classic to me, dawg

[Cookiefist]

I hate bards.

[reborn649]

the problem is that he a pulls half the zone letting no mobs to kill up

Just curious, but where is the other half of the zone. Instead of making the 7 millionth complaint about bards, why aren't u attacking and killing the other half not being pulled? Bards swarm kite, its a mechanic since classic live. From my understanding, bards have backed off plvling in heavily populated dungeons for the most part and have even started vanishing from dreadlands, burning woods, and are "less" of an annoyance in overthere. Tell ya what...you list other places that bards can swarm kite from 1-60 so they don't bother players and I will list 5x as many places for each set of levels you could go also. If you don't agree with whats happening in a zone, move on.

Disclaimer: Not mad, just annoyed between these type of posts and "what class should i play" posts lately haha..

[Swish]

Amelinda didn't get much right during her time as a GM/CSR but she was quite clear about bards not pulling 90% of the zone to swarm kite it during peak hours.

[Tubben]

Just curious, but where is the other half of the zone. Instead of making the 7 millionth complaint about bards, why aren't u attacking and killing the other half not being pulled? Bards swarm kite, its a mechanic since classic live. From my understanding, bards have backed off plvling in heavily populated dungeons for the most part and have even started vanishing from dreadlands, burning woods, and are "less" of an annoyance in overthere. Tell ya what...you list other places that bards can swarm kite from 1-60 so they don't bother players and I will list 5x as many places for each set of levels you could go also. If you don't agree with whats happening in a zone, move on.

Disclaimer: Not mad, just annoyed between these type of posts and "what class should i play" posts lately haha..

a.) The other half of the zone is green
b.) The mobs are green to the bard, he's 50+
c.) If there are 30 players 20-30, the bard should move to an different zone, and not the 20-30 players.

[reborn649]

a.) The other half of the zone is green
b.) The mobs are green to the bard, he's 50+
c.) If there are 30 players 20-30, the bard should move to an different zone, and not the 20-30 players.

Yet you're the only one here complaining...

Whether the bard is lvl 60 or lvl 20...swarming is swarming at any lvl. Bards are gonna swarm and their options are limited unlike you. 20-30? Unrest, Mistmoore, Guk, Highkeep, Najena, Sol A, etc... You have a plethora of more options for nearly every lvl. If a bard wants to swarm kite, they have a pretty set path for a handful of zones to get to 60. These posts are pointless when you literally have countless options to level at from 1-60 and yet still complain because someone leveling a bard is just ruining your day when you can practically cross 1-2 zonelines and get the same XP in another zone.

[Bodybagger]

Yet you're the only one here complaining...

Whether the bard is lvl 60 or lvl 20...swarming is swarming at any lvl. Bards are gonna swarm and their options are limited unlike you. 20-30? Unrest, Mistmoore, Guk, Highkeep, Najena, Sol A, etc... You have a plethora of more options for nearly every lvl. If a bard wants to swarm kite, they have a pretty set path for a handful of zones to get to 60. These posts are pointless when you literally have countless options to level at from 1-60 and yet still complain because someone leveling a bard is just ruining your day when you can practically cross 1-2 zonelines and get the same XP in another zone.

Your argument is stupid and invalid. I'm sorry, but telling someone about places a bard can swarm kite for xp, when mobs are green, is about the dumbest shit I have seen on forumquest lately, and I've been playing/forumquesting red99....

That has nothing to do with swarm leveling a bard, which is legit (and still stupid in a full capacity zone)

Get real.

[reborn649]

Your argument is stupid and invalid. I'm sorry, but telling someone about places a bard can swarm kite for xp, when mobs are green, is about the dumbest shit I have seen on forumquest lately, and I've been playing/forumquesting red99....

That has nothing to do with swarm leveling a bard, which is legit (and still stupid in a full capacity zone)

Get real.

I don't know if its just me...but i literally didnt understand 80% of what you just tried to say...

Only thing i kind of gathered was something about swarm kiting stuff that is green? At least I think thats what you were trying to say? My point to this was whether a bard is lvl 1 or lvl 60, swarm kiting is a legit mechanic. There are not a lot of places they can swarm and there are TONS of places for people who cannot swarm to choose from. That's my only argument here. If you cant grasp that concept and you believe this to be the dumbest thing you have seen on forumquest in awhile, then you clearly need to l2understand simple concepts and forumquest more...

This is just my opinion on the subject after playing 3 bards from 1-60 and multiple other classes from 1-60, so I feel fairly confident I have a dog in the fight.

[baalzy]

Just curious, but where is the other half of the zone. Instead of making the 7 millionth complaint about bards, why aren't u attacking and killing the other half not being pulled? Bards swarm kite, its a mechanic since classic live. From my understanding, bards have backed off plvling in heavily populated dungeons for the most part and have even started vanishing from dreadlands, burning woods, and are "less" of an annoyance in overthere. Tell ya what...you list other places that bards can swarm kite from 1-60 so they don't bother players and I will list 5x as many places for each set of levels you could go also. If you don't agree with whats happening in a zone, move on.

Disclaimer: Not mad, just annoyed between these type of posts and "what class should i play" posts lately haha..

What, you mean the half of the zone that is either too high level or too low level for someone to xp on?
Most outdoor zones do not have a uniform distribution of mob levels. Burning Words/Sky Fire are all I can think of off the top of my head where mob lvls are roughly the same throughout.

Getting into groups to gain your levels, or charm kiting a few at a time as a bard is also classic as shit and doesn't flip the middle finger to everyone else in that level range at that time.

[Bodybagger]

come to red... kill the bard.... nothing stops a swarm kite like a 6 second stun ;)

[Drummond]

This is just my opinion on the subject after playing 3 bards from 1-60 and multiple other classes from 1-60, so I feel fairly confident I have a dog in the fight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship

[reborn649]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship

I lawl'd...

[Drummond]

I lawl'd...

I bet you did.

[reborn649]

I bet you did.

Indeed I did! You know another form of sportsmanship? Going 1-2 zones away to be fair to the bard who has limited places to go at that lvl to swarm.

If you don't or never have played a bard, you will never get it. Play one, learn to swarm, come back to this post in a couple weeks and tell me if your opinion has changed.

[manwithaplan11]

The bard was 50+. Swarming in a 20-30 zone. You keep arguing that the poor bard is limited in his places to swarm for xp. Are you retarded?

[Drummond]

Indeed I did! You know another form of sportsmanship? Going 1-2 zones away to be fair to the bard who has limited places to go at that lvl to swarm.

If you don't or never have played a bard, you will never get it. Play one, learn to swarm, come back to this post in a couple weeks and tell me if your opinion has changed.

I don't need to.

I inherently understand why it's selfish for 1 player to claim 100 mobs at a time and lag or starve out an entire zone for everybody else.

Just as I understand other unwritten rules of sportsmanship. Not training, respecting first to engage and even dare I say it, curbing how many mobs I swarm out of respect to the other players in the zone.

[fastboy21]

The bard was 50+. Swarming in a 20-30 zone. You keep arguing that the poor bard is limited in his places to swarm for xp. Are you retarded?

Why do you have to bring retards into it?

[manwithaplan11]

Just callin it how I see it!

[loramin]

Not to get all PC, but "retard" is the new "******", "spic", or "kike". Let's face it: mentally handicapped people have life hard enough without being compared to jerk offs like that guy.

Personally I think using a phrase like "mentally deficient" works better as an insult than "retard" anyway. "Retard" is an insult a 10 year old would use; "mentally deficient" makes you sound like you're actually smarter than them.

[manwithaplan11]

Lol seriously? Retard, dumb, stupid. I'm not trying to be nice to the guy lol, I think he's an idiot. /shrug

How is mentally deficient or mentally handicapped more PC anyway? They're all insults.

[Hollywood]

What is with all this defense of the swarm kite, and pity-pooing bards as not having many levelling options?

The majority of bards did and still do gain experience from grouping.

The only reason that Swarmkiting is such a problem here is because it goes unchecked, primarily in that there's not enough server activity.

High server activity = low amount of mobs = bard goes somewhere else more bespoke to get his kills.


People are also conveniently leaving out that a lot of swarmkiting issues are caused by Bard's running a PL service.

Not to get all PC, but "retard" is the new "******", "spic", or "kike". Let's face it: mentally handicapped people have life hard enough without being compared to jerk offs like that guy.

Personally I think using a phrase like "mentally deficient" works better as an insult than "retard" anyway. "Retard" is an insult a 10 year old would use; "mentally deficient" makes you sound like you're actually smarter than them.

Wait what?
Retard is retard.
Mentally deficient does nothing but make you sound like some spineless douchebag PC liberal.

Well played.

[indiscriminate_hater]

shit sounds pretty classic to me, dawg

lol @ thread

dealwithit.gif

[Crawdad]

Its awful. The only classic mechanic I would love to see removed. Adds nothing but animosity and greed to the server. I played a Bard on live and loved it..and I just can't enjoy it here because I hate seeing bards Swarm/AE kite so much. Most people are cool and will leave the area for you, but its still a pain and just causes bickering in zones.

1) It takes forever. I appreciate you telling me I can pull mobs off you, I'll Be Damned if it doesn't take you 20mins to kill anything, making it impossible to find spawns anywhere else.
2) You're taking all the mobs. This isn't So bad in and of itself, but see point one. You're getting a level per hour or whatever and ruining it for everyone else.
3) Half the time the bard is a 60 PLing someone with too much money. You're 60. You can literally go into Any zone and PL your customer, stop going to the super populated ones.

[reborn649]

The bard was 50+. Swarming in a 20-30 zone. You keep arguing that the poor bard is limited in his places to swarm for xp. Are you retarded?

This guys characters names...and I'm the retard lol

[NextGenesis88]

This is petitionable so yeah not sure why anyone would be on the bards side who is swarming a large amount of GREEN mobs during peak hours with a bunch of people appropriately leveled. You said you played 3 Bards so clearly biased. Sounds troll worthy for sure.

Bards don't NEED to swarm kite.. they can also group too and I would applaud a bard who groups and plays his role there well. I do not applaud this scenario though and I don't see how anyone could except the guy doing it, but hey reputation is all on you and that's one repercussion if not being petitioned. If anything swarm kiting goes against what classic EQ is all about whether it's classic or not. It's basically the same category as the huge swarming on the live servers just in the realm of what you can do in classic. I am not against it, but I am against certain actions no matter what class you are. It's not solely against bards, it's just simple manners and respectful actions. This is just a completely selfish thing to do and you cannot claim half of a whole zone or a whole zone unless there isn't anybody there or they have no problem with it.

It's like this guy would be standing up for the bard in any case. When do you draw the line? I'm not afraid to stand out against this because anyone in their right mind should see why this cannot always fly. If nobody mentions any issues during these occasions then okay, then don't expect anything to change and don't come to complain about it after. First step should be to politely ask the person if he could leave a fair amount of mobs up for everyone else. Stay respectful no matter what and if they tell you no or keep ignoring you then petition.

Also would like to state that I played a bard to 49 without swarming once. Doesn't have to mean anything. Just grouping as a bard can be fun. :)

[Kazi]

I think it's funny this guy is basically saying bards can only level by swarming. Ever try grouping?

[loramin]

Wait what?
Retard is retard.
Mentally deficient does nothing but make you sound like some spineless douchebag PC liberal.


Ok, don't use "mentally deficient" then; that was just an example.

I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll keep it simple: I personally don't see a need to use words that offend groups of people. I was pointing out the fact that the term "retard" has been singled out by the mentally handicapped community. If you don't believe me google "retard offensive".

But look, use whatever words you want to express yourself. All I'm saying is, some people might get offended when you do.

[Unidus]

Sure it's classic but on live it was a rare sight so it wasn't a big deal. On this server most bards know about it and how to do it because of Youtube and all the forum posts about it. So it is now a non rare sight and is freaking annoying and it needs to be banned.

[Shaniril]

I think it's funny this guy is basically saying bards can only level by swarming. Ever try grouping?

The rampant bard-hate makes it difficult to find a group willing to take you. Speaking from experience (though I've yet to find a group that DIDN'T like me being there after inviting!)

[reborn649]

Just for clarification... I never once have spoken against bards being in groups. I grouped on 2 of my bards and loved it way more than swarming. Not sure how everyone's panties got in a twist bcuz I'm not necessarily defending this swarming bard. I'm simply proposing the argument of there being way more places to level in groups versus areas a bard has to swarm in. Simply looking at this whole scenario from a different perspective instead of joining the typical bandwagon of the last 5000 posts about bards swarming. No trolling intended ladies and gents. Didn't realize throwing something out for arguments sake would cause such an outrage for the forum trolls..

[veejur]

I'm not necessarily defending this swarming bard. I'm simply proposing the argument of there being way more places to level in groups versus areas a bard has to swarm in. Simply looking at this whole scenario from a different perspective instead of joining the typical bandwagon of the last 5000 posts about bards swarming

Backpedal much?

[Sarajo]

I really want to answer this all. I typed up a two page reply and everything. But my painkillers kicked in and I have no idea what I'm saying anymore.

Here's some thoughts though:

-I don't AoE kite anymore. Look at the trend: The more there are, the more lag there is, the worse you'll get at it --> the more you'll die and the more XP you'll lose. It's like those painkillers I took tonight; I have a cousin who's been addicted to pills for years now; the more you take, the more your dopamine receptors burn out and the more you need to trigger those dopamine receptors which you can only do by taking more of what triggers your dopamine which is less pleasurable than the time before because now you're an addict.
Sucka.

-Charm kiting and chanting and snaring and all that is so much more interesting, and you're not fucking everyone else who plays in the zone. Hence, you're not fucking yourself as often, because you're not succumbing to the lag that you helped create.

-You can make almost as much XP by charming mob a, snaring mob b, letting mob a beat mob b to death, then charming mob c, beating mob b, etc. in a technique called "Recursive slaughter is recursive". Later, when you can pull 5 things and have 4 of them attack 1 of them, you'll definitely get XP as fast as pulling half the zone. Why? Because when you're doing your AoE kiting, you're spending 20 minutes out of each hour gathering spawns to burn down. Then a wizard mob gets social aggro, or you notice that something in the pack has a name, and when you ALT-TAB to the wiki on autorun, you find out it's 15 levels above you, so now you have to drag that pack 5000 meters to a zoneline just to come back and waste another 10 minutes getting the swarm back together. This reminds me of people who spend $2000 on graphics cards to daisy-chain to farm bitcoins, because they might manage to crack $135 worth of encryption someday.

So bottom line: charm kiting and chanting are almost as good in XP per hour, and you're not contributing to the lag that is going to come right back to haunt you and start you moving in the wrong direction. But sometimes you just feel like you have no other option, and I get that; first charm at level 27, first chant at 30? Practice charming and chanting because there are wonderful things that happen when you charm casters, and now you can hunt stuff that you'd never be able to kill with your groping-range AoE! (like Frost Giants)

[indiscriminate_hater]

^ Don't snare the mob. Let your pet gain aggro so they beat each other up. Break charm when one gets below 5%

[fastboy21]

If anything swarm kiting goes against what classic EQ is all about whether it's classic or not.

O rlly? Says you...

I'm pretty sure I remember Nilbog saying that this server was going to be about making classic EQ "the good with the bad". People being dicks and jerks is a big part of what classic eq was in reality (not the romanticized vision folks want to recall). You want classic eq? Get ready for a game where you can be a good guy or a jerk off without the mechanics of the game stopping you. P1999 wins here, and I love it.

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27260

But, I guess its not about that according to some.

[radditsu]

Where are bards supposed to level/powerlevel? LOIO is the worst newbie zone in kunark unless you are killing bloodgils. It seems to me he was trying to be the least disruptive he could be in regard to everyone. Whine more guys.

[Destron]

Jealousy is clearly the culprit for all the bard hate on this server.

[rollin5k]

If that was the case we'd all roll bards and do the same thing.
But not everyone wants to be a d. Is disruptive as hell and selfish

[Rararboker]

Not that I am defending bards but why would anyone want to level in LOIO? Horrible ZEM on the zone. I can safely say that when I was grouping there at sarnak ledge it was the slowest exp I've ever experienced in the game. If your lvl 20-ish, do yourself a favor and go to Guk or SolA. Both zones have better exp modifiers and better chances for making plat.

[bartly]

Not that I am defending bards but why would anyone want to level in LOIO? Horrible ZEM on the zone. I can safely say that when I was grouping there at sarnak ledge it was the slowest exp I've ever experienced in the game. If your lvl 20-ish, do yourself a favor and go to Guk or SolA. Both zones have better exp modifiers and better chances for making plat.

Its pretty good for druids because of the charmable tigers.

[Ravager]

Bards should be an instanced class until level 50.

[Mickets]

F bards.

[klemenis]

until velious comes out.. bards that swarm for exp will not stop. 95% of groups reject them until 55 when they get cantana.. before then people will do their best to keep any hybrids out of the group. unless u have friends its near impossible. some of u will say this is not true.... for those of you who say this isnt true... your full of crap lol.

as for bards that swarm to pwrlvl... keep up the good work!! dont give up the outdoor zones to these crybabies :)

[klemenis]

for all the real bards out there... u deserve the spoils of being a bard :)

for all those that leveled by cheating and doing low hp kiting.... i hope yo.....wait, we'll save that for another day when this finds its way into rnf ;)

[Endurance]

This seems like a good thread to ask for advice.

Where should I be swarm kiting at level 14?

thanks in advance!

[klemenis]

north karana is still good at this level.. around 18 once u get your new song hit up ot. noob side till about 25-27. should keep ya busy for a couple hours.

[klemenis]

or nk then do ek hounds until about 20.

[baalzy]

Once I level my druid up enough, I'm just going to go to bard kite zones, charm & sow random animals then gate anytime I see a bard gearing up to swarm. That kinda shits classic too.

[Drummond]

Once I level my druid up enough, I'm just going to go to bard kite zones, charm & sow random animals then gate anytime I see a bard gearing up to swarm. That kinda shits classic too.

How many animals can a Druid charm at once?

[jaybone]

Just tag mobs off the bards train .

[fishingme]

Just curious, but where is the other half of the zone. Instead of making the 7 millionth complaint about bards, why aren't u attacking and killing the other half not being pulled? Bards swarm kite, its a mechanic since classic live. From my understanding, bards have backed off plvling in heavily populated dungeons for the most part and have even started vanishing from dreadlands, burning woods, and are "less" of an annoyance in overthere. Tell ya what...you list other places that bards can swarm kite from 1-60 so they don't bother players and I will list 5x as many places for each set of levels you could go also. If you don't agree with whats happening in a zone, move on.

Disclaimer: Not mad, just annoyed between these type of posts and "what class should i play" posts lately haha..

there's a difference between swarm kiting and aoe kiting. Second, aoe kiting is not classic because no computer hardware back in 99-(whenever luclin came out) could handle it. When you died, you stayed dead.

[fishingme]

Once I level my druid up enough, I'm just going to go to bard kite zones, charm & sow random animals then gate anytime I see a bard gearing up to swarm. That kinda shits classic too.

There's lots and lots of things that you can do to kill a bard aoe kiting for example, draw aggro on or or two of his/her mobs and pull two or three mobs near him so his aoe hits them, then zone out. Of course do the last one while he is still fresh into doing his AoEs. I don't think enough of you guys really realize that you can do this, sure it will take some time out of your day, but you're losing anyways. Be a winner.

Also what you can do, take like oh, a few mobs from him run them to OT outpost, get all the guards to aggro and then train them out towards the bard.

[Hollywood]

Ok, don't use "mentally deficient" then; that was just an example.

I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll keep it simple: I personally don't see a need to use words that offend groups of people. I was pointing out the fact that the term "retard" has been singled out by the mentally handicapped community. If you don't believe me google "retard offensive".

But look, use whatever words you want to express yourself. All I'm saying is, some people might get offended when you do.

I guess my response is more of a mock that you bothered to make that clarification here where unfortunately it goes unappreciated.

Well I suppose it didn't hurt for you to try.

[Buffet_Shammy]

Outdoor zones I can see, but the AOE pulls are a bit much in dungeons. When 1 Druid pulls the entire bottom and 2nd Floor of Unrest at once to PL one player it's wrong. Watched it happen for 4 hours straight the other night.

Just my opinion. Taking exp from potentially 18 players to accelerate the leveling speed of 1 is about as selfish as it gets.

[Quineloe]

speaking of PL, I just love when a PL team shows up in unrest. Hi, I have a level 60 druid PLing me, I could go just about anywhere and farm an empty zone! But I only know unrest, so let's go to where there's already 20 people competing for spawns!

Outdoor zones I can see, but the AOE pulls are a bit much in dungeons. When 1 Druid pulls the entire bottom and 2nd Floor of Unrest at once to PL one player it's wrong. Watched it happen for 4 hours straight the other night.

Just my opinion. Taking exp from potentially 18 players to accelerate the leveling speed of 1 is about as selfish as it gets.



glad I'm not the only one annoyed by this. Even worse is the audacity these PLees show, they actually claim all the shit they're killing as their camp.

[Buffet_Shammy]

speaking of PL, I just love when a PL team shows up in unrest. Hi, I have a level 60 druid PLing me, I could go just about anywhere and farm an empty zone! But I only know unrest, so let's go to where there's already 20 people competing for spawns!

What he said

[NextGenesis88]

O rlly? Says you...

I'm pretty sure I remember Nilbog saying that this server was going to be about making classic EQ "the good with the bad". People being dicks and jerks is a big part of what classic eq was in reality (not the romanticized vision folks want to recall). You want classic eq? Get ready for a game where you can be a good guy or a jerk off without the mechanics of the game stopping you. P1999 wins here, and I love it.

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27260

But, I guess its not about that according to some.

I think your making your own argument here and we are actually on the same side. I'm saying I don't agree with the way some people do this technique. I never said it should be removed and I don't have a problem with it as a whole. Like I said, it's all on the person how they handle their reputation. For the most part people are pretty awesome here, but when you find people who are assholes then that's perfectly fine because that's up to them if they care they will be avoided by certain people. If it's not important for them to build a good reputation then sure by all means keep it up, but they will only be digging themselves a grave in the community.

And frankly I would be interested in trying a good PVP server. I rolled a Shaman on Red, but I just haven't dedicated much time into him yet.

[NextGenesis88]

It's not the bards that should be "hated", it's the player. The bard is an amazing class. I don't think people should have prejudice toward all bard's, but of course prejudice is never good. You can swarm without stepping on anyone's toes.

[Kekephee]

It's not the bards that should be "hated", it's the player. The bard is an amazing class. I don't think people should have prejudice toward all bard's, but of course prejudice is never good. You can swarm without stepping on anyone's toes.


AE kited half the time from 16 to 40 and the only complaints I ever got were from other bards who wanted the whole zone to themselves and one or two groups who were camping shit like the giant fort when I accidentally social aggrod their mobs. Not all bards are the enemy and some of us really did go out of our way to make sure there were plenty of mobs for everyone else.

[bartly]

there's a difference between swarm kiting and aoe kiting. Second, aoe kiting is not classic because no computer hardware back in 99-(whenever luclin came out) could handle it. When you died, you stayed dead.

Yeah, AOE kiting wasn't really a thing until POP AAs and instruments. But then it got so rampant they put random summoning mobs into zones to combat it.

I still did bugs/golems in POV though, was about 2AA per kite if I pulled the whole area.

[Vumnaydar]

come to red... kill the bard.... nothing stops a swarm kite like a 6 second stun ;)

/\ Love it!

[Ahldagor]

kiters gonna kite

[Drummond]

kiters gonna kite

Yes -but there should be strings attached to both.. ;)

[Ahldagor]

Yes, and there should be strings attached to both.. ;)

but there are

[Hailto]

Bards can only effectively kite in a handful of zones, a well rounded group can xp in tons of places. I don't see the problem.

[Babizul]

Can I just say I've never had a problem with a kiting bard?

[Ahldagor]

Bards can only effectively kite in a handful of zones, a well rounded group can xp in tons of places. I don't see the problem.

there isn't if the players offended by the acting bard follow the procedures that gms have outlined. whining won't change anything, and the fact that "zones where players XP" encompasses every zone in the game suggests that the title of this thread is discriminatory to the abilities of the bard class.

[Nephazz]

Yeah, if you're in a cinema and there is one asshole constantly talking on his cellphone, why don't you just leave?? There's only a handful of other cinemas this guy can take a call in, but you can go to any cinema you want, you selfish prick!

[Hailto]

Yeah, if you're in a cinema and there is one asshole constantly talking on his cellphone, why don't you just leave?? There's only a handful of other cinemas this guy can take a call in, but you can go to any cinema you want, you selfish prick!

Failed analogy, i'll give you a C for effort though.

[Nephazz]

Failed analogy, i'll give you a C for effort though.

It's pretty accurate. One guy ruining the show for a bunch of other people, yet some comments suggest they should just go somewhere else.

[Ahldagor]

It's pretty accurate. One guy ruining the show for a bunch of other people, yet some comments suggest they should just go somewhere else.

no. you notify management of what that patron is doing, and have them, the authority figures of the theater, deal with the patron who is causing you discomfort. if they have grounds then they will more than likely ask that patron to cease their actions.

your logic is what leads people to shoot strangers in a theater over cell phone talk.

[Sarajo]

It's pretty accurate. One guy ruining the show for a bunch of other people, yet some comments suggest they should just go somewhere else.

1) You didn't pay for a ticket but want to complain about the quality of the movie.
2) The one guy who is enjoying the show thought the theater was empty and there are no rules against what he's doing in this particular theater because it was built before cell phones became popular.

As it turns out, you can make an analogy about just about anything, and it's still making a comparison to make it sound like you have a point. We can do this all day, and it doesn't change the fact that the complaint is about (a tiny minority of) bards on the server whose alternative playstyle offends someone else who can't play the same way and therefore blames every server problem(lag, lack of social opportunities, EverQuest classic not meaning that you're entitled to. Group) on those individuals.

There are abusive and rude people playing every class... it's classic, unfortunately. We seem to have forgotten the part of classic wherein people didn't act like this is an XBoxLive chat simulator, because being toxic meant people wouldn't want anything to do with you when you hit the endgame dungeon/epic/raid scene.

[Nephazz]

no. you notify management of what that patron is doing, and have them, the authority figures of the theater, deal with the patron who is causing you discomfort. if they have grounds then they will more than likely ask that patron to cease their actions.

What do you mean "no"? The rest of your post has nothing to do with mine. I was just stating that it is stupid to say "go somewhere else then" to everybody else. I was referring to previous posters that said just that.

[Nephazz]

1) You didn't pay for a ticket but want to complain about the quality of the movie.
2) The one guy who is enjoying the show thought the theater was empty and there are no rules against what he's doing in this particular theater because it was built before cell phones became popular.

As it turns out, you can make an analogy about just about anything, and it's still making a comparison to make it sound like you have a point. We can do this all day, and it doesn't change the fact that the complaint is about (a tiny minority of) bards on the server whose alternative playstyle offends someone else who can't play the same way and therefore blames every server problem(lag, lack of social opportunities, EverQuest classic not meaning that you're entitled to. Group) on those individuals.

There are abusive and rude people playing every class... it's classic, unfortunately. We seem to have forgotten the part of classic wherein people didn't act like this is an XBoxLive chat simulator, because being toxic meant people wouldn't want anything to do with you when you hit the endgame dungeon/epic/raid scene.

1) The show is pretty good, just a handful of audience members suck because they have no regard for others.
2) A quick /who might provide him some insight. And a rule against it should not be required, it should be common sense to avoid being a jerk to a whole zone.

I'm talking circles here, it doesn't lead anywhere. Just one last point: we are not talking about one bard disrupting another player, we are talking about one bard who basically locks out a majority of other players on the field (if we take OT as an example here) so he can play choo choo train. How can there be an argument for the bard here?

Edit: And now I'm double-posting, too.

[Psionide]

Give it up your not gunna win against the legion of swarm kiting bards but can take solace in the fact that almost all of them will stop playing their class once they get post 50.

[phacemeltar]

Bards can only effectively kite in a handful of zones, a well rounded group can xp in tons of places. I don't see the problem.

i think the problem is that some people use these zones to solo, and there arent any mobs when the bard is running them in circles. but that was 8 pages ago so maybe i missed something..

[Ahldagor]

What do you mean "no"?

http://nomadiknation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/do-you-speak-english-e-verilen-salak-cevaplar_129733.gif

The rest of your post has nothing to do with mine. I was just stating that it is stupid to say "go somewhere else then" to everybody else. I was referring to previous posters that said just that.

then i played out the courteous scenario of which an authority in the theater takes care of the issue.

http://robdyoung.com/images/2012/09/metaphors-be-with-you.jpg

[Vidar]

shit sounds pretty classic to me, dawg

This is wrong. I leveled in LoIO from 20-29 on live and never once did i run into this.

[odiecat99]

Yet you're the only one here complaining...

Whether the bard is lvl 60 or lvl 20...swarming is swarming at any lvl. Bards are gonna swarm and their options are limited unlike you. 20-30? Unrest, Mistmoore, Guk, Highkeep, Najena, Sol A, etc... You have a plethora of more options for nearly every lvl. If a bard wants to swarm kite, they have a pretty set path for a handful of zones to get to 60. These posts are pointless when you literally have countless options to level at from 1-60 and yet still complain because someone leveling a bard is just ruining your day when you can practically cross 1-2 zonelines and get the same XP in another zone.

confirmed moran

[odiecat99]

AE kited half the time from 16 to 40 and the only complaints I ever got were from other bards who wanted the whole zone to themselves and one or two groups who were camping shit like the giant fort when I accidentally social aggrod their mobs. Not all bards are the enemy and some of us really did go out of our way to make sure there were plenty of mobs for everyone else.

confirmed good guy

[stonez138]

Reborn is an idiot. First he says he's sick of posts like this where people complain about bards and then he drops this gem Yet you're the only one here complaining...

which one is it?

[odiecat99]

hahaha

[Quineloe]

no. you notify management of what that patron is doing, and have them, the authority figures of the theater, deal with the patron who is causing you discomfort. if they have grounds then they will more than likely ask that patron to cease their actions.

your logic is what leads people to shoot strangers in a theater over cell phone talk.

That sounds like excellent logic. What is your issue with this?

[Paleman]

step 1 - let bard collect mobs
step 2 - root one of the mobs that stuns when its about to hit the bard
step 3 - hopefully watch said bard die and wonder what went wrong
step 4 -
step 5 - profit

[Ahldagor]

That sounds like excellent logic. What is your issue with this?

people overreacting and not following the proper channels that have been put in place by the gms. see my above post with sammy jay and the metaphors img

[applesauce25r624]

people still whining about bards?

me and my brother are gonna have to make a new bard just to scoop up the mobs and spite you all

PS: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100456

[Quineloe]

people overreacting and not following the proper channels that have been put in place by the gms. see my above post with sammy jay and the metaphors img

I wouldn't call it overreacting when someone talks on a cell phone during a movie at the theater and gets shot.

[Ahldagor]

I wouldn't call it overreacting when someone talks on a cell phone during a movie at the theater and gets shot.

http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/quot+She+turned+me+down+but+I+can+laugh+and+feel+_ a98099c0a02e0578ea5cc12781b470bd.jpg

[Vindor]

It is against the rules of the server. I dont know why any argument beyond that could be necessary.

[bartly]

Give it up your not gunna win against the legion of swarm kiting bards but can take solace in the fact that almost all of them will stop playing their class once they get post 50.

[Quineloe]

http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/quot+She+turned+me+down+but+I+can+laugh+and+feel+_ a98099c0a02e0578ea5cc12781b470bd.jpg

What would you do? Get angry and stay quiet, then rant on the internet about it three hours later?

[Daysprung]

There's lots and lots of things that you can do to kill a bard aoe kiting for example, draw aggro on or or two of his/her mobs and pull two or three mobs near him so his aoe hits them, then zone out. Of course do the last one while he is still fresh into doing his AoEs. I don't think enough of you guys really realize that you can do this, sure it will take some time out of your day, but you're losing anyways. Be a winner.

Also what you can do, take like oh, a few mobs from him run them to OT outpost, get all the guards to aggro and then train them out towards the bard.

Thank you. Finally a useful post!

[Fael]

I propose that 1/3 of the npc's in out door zones are designated for bards, 1/3 is ffa, and 1/3 is given over to the players who are too stupid to take advantage of the many EMPTY zones that have substantial experience modifiers.

Most outdoor zones have 300+ mobs that spawn every 6-8 minutes. 100+ every 6-8 minutes = 700+ mobs per hour. 700+ mobs per hour should be more than enough to satisfy such persons.

Dolic

[spooge]

come to red... kill the bard.... nothing stops a swarm kite like a 6 second stun ;)

This ^^

[Ahldagor]

What would you do? Get angry and stay quiet, then rant on the internet about it three hours later?

read my posts. here i'll quote:
you notify management of what that patron is doing, and have them, the authority figures of the theater, deal with the patron who is causing you discomfort. if they have grounds then they will more than likely ask that patron to cease their actions.


amazing how the situation is handled and your hands aren't even dirty.

[reborn649]

confirmed moran

Let me clarify this once more for the guy who is clearly to slow to understand common sense...

If a bard is ruining your day and you can simply go 1-2 zones away to get the same XP, why not do it? It's no different then going into a dungeon and calling out for a CC and finding out everything is camped and telling your group "Hey guys lets go check out "X" dungeon instead cuz this one is camped to hell and back". If the bard truly is taking 90% of the zone, ya I fully agree he/she is playing the role of a d-bag. Petition him/her if you feel the need and move on for the time being.

Reborn is an idiot. First he says he's sick of posts like this where people complain about bards and then he drops this gem

which one is it?

Intentionally taking/reading things out of context, and I am the idiot. D+ for effort at trolling.


Done with this failed thread for the time being. Clearly its a split decision on bards swarming judging by the various opinions. Can't wait for the next thread in a couple days! Someone go swarm LOIO or OT asap!

[Skydash]

Go to a dungeon for exp... problem solved.

Bards cannot get groups because of the exp penalty, what do you expect them to do?

[myriverse]

Just tag mobs off the bards train .
Just tag mobs off the bards train .
Just tag mobs off the bards train .

[Drummond]

Let me clarify this once more for the guy who is clearly to slow to understand common sense...

If a bard is ruining your day and you can simply go 1-2 zones away to get the same XP, why not do it? It's no different then going into a dungeon and calling out for a CC and finding out everything is camped and telling your group "Hey guys lets go check out "X" dungeon instead cuz this one is camped to hell and back". If the bard truly is taking 90% of the zone, ya I fully agree he/she is playing the role of a d-bag. Petition him/her if you feel the need and move on for the time being.



Intentionally taking/reading things out of context, and I am the idiot. D+ for effort at trolling.


Done with this failed thread for the time being. Clearly its a split decision on bards swarming judging by the various opinions. Can't wait for the next thread in a couple days! Someone go swarm LOIO or OT asap!

Let me ask this slowly for the guy that cant understand common courtesy..

Does that level 50 Bard selling PL services really have the "right" to an entire zone that could support 20 level appropriate Players simply because its one if the zones Bards think of as theirs?

Its funny... Im betting that its not the hybrid penalty that keeps Bards from from finding groups but the resentment the community feels at how selfish some/many Bards choose to act.

I know for a fact that a Bard can train/swarm in a very small area.. small enough that 98% of these complaints would go away.

And as people have pointed out, Bards have the tools at their disposal to solo almost as effectively in other much less disruptive ways.. charm chaining etc.

Yes, you ARE capable if eating only 6 of the 24 free doughnuts that management put out.

There are classes that have it x100 worse than a Bard in trying to find XP.. right of convenience is not a valid argument in ignoring how your actions affect others around you.

There are Players that would kill every merchant and quest-giver in a zone for the XP if it was possible and make the exact same claim about their need to "XP" and how the next 1-2 zones over also have merchants, just go there.

[Drummond]

Go to a dungeon for exp... problem solved.

Bards cannot get groups because of the exp penalty, what do you expect them to do?

And if Bards wanted the dungeons your argument would be " Go to an outdoor zone... problem solved."

The proper solution is that Bards think of themselves as part of a community and act appropriately.

That means doing anything you want when it has no effect on anyone and adjusting your actions accordingly when it does.

Common courtesy is not something that 99% of adults have made up to keep YOU from having fun.

[Ahldagor]

quit crying. most people here know what bards do, and they have as much right to a mob that you would have regardless of level or courtesy. if you're appealing to courtesy then you really are grasping hard. there are multiple and proper ways to deal with this which have been stated multiple times in the thread.

[Drummond]

quit crying. most people here know what bards do, and they have as much right to a mob that you would have regardless of level or courtesy. if you're appealing to courtesy then you really are grasping hard. there are multiple and proper ways to deal with this which have been stated multiple times in the thread.

I dont think that people are crying over Bards having the same right to "a mob".. or 10 or 15.. but at some point yes, you've crossed over into being a douche territory. When you are lagging a zone.. you are probably already there.

"Quit crying" -the first retort of trolls and bullys.

The only thing thats "grasping hard" is thinking that adult arguments will open the minds of the closed-minded.

I am only arguing for the idea that even a Bard can be expected to change up his play style when in a zone with other people.. they have the tools for it.

[fastboy21]

the reason bards have a hard time finding grps is that most bards don't know how to play their toon in a grp. they think their role is sing mana song and /assist attack. if thats all they do they are not worth their class hybrid penalty.

in other words, the reason that some bards can't find grps is that many bards suck at actually playing.

of course, one of the reasons they suck at playing is that they spent the first 50 levels of their char being PLd or swarming. playing a bard in a group is a totally different game.

a good bard is constantly twisting, mezzing, charming, swapping instruments and swapping targets...oh, and you get to be puller and snarer much of the time as well. Many bards either don't know how or don't want to play that game.

if you are a good bard you will very easily be noticed and find plenty of good groups.

[Ahldagor]

I dont think that people are crying over Bards having the same right to "a mob".. or 10 or 15.. but at some point yes, you've crossed over into being a douche territory. When you are lagging a zone.. you are probably already there.

"Quit crying" -the first retort of trolls and bullys.

The only thing thats "grasping hard" is thinking that adult arguments will open the minds of the closed-minded.

I am only arguing for the idea that even a Bard can be expected to change up his play style when in a zone with other people.. they have the tools for it.



http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299
that explains everything. this thread is some folks trying to put a lawnmower together without reading the instructions.

[Skydash]

And if Bards wanted the dungeons your argument would be " Go to an outdoor zone... problem solved."

The proper solution is that Bards think of themselves as part of a community and act appropriately.

That means doing anything you want when it has no effect on anyone and adjusting your actions accordingly when it does.

Common courtesy is not something that 99% of adults have made up to keep YOU from having fun.

I spent my time yesterday in OT killing stuff with a shaman friend. I still gained an entire level (43) with three+ bards kiting there.
At no point did I have zero mobs to kill. Respawns in OT are almost instant.
There are mobs that the bards don't even touch in OT, try the sarnak ruins.

Frontier Mountains, one zone away... tons of the same level mobs. NO BARDS IN SIGHT... Why don't people kill there? Lazy? Stupid? Not safe enough?

[Quineloe]

Go to a dungeon for exp... problem solved.

Bards cannot get groups because of the exp penalty, what do you expect them to do?

That's odd, I see hybrids and bards get plenty of groups. I'm grouped with a ranger and a troll warrior right now. No one else seems to care.

What are all these people leveling bards for anyways?

[Drummond]

I spent my time yesterday in OT killing stuff with a shaman friend. I still gained an entire level (43) with three+ bards kiting there.
At no point did I have zero mobs to kill. Respawns in OT are almost instant.
There are mobs that the bards don't even touch in OT, try the sarnak ruins.

Frontier Mountains, one zone away... tons of the same level mobs. NO BARDS IN SIGHT... Why don't people kill there? Lazy? Stupid? Not safe enough?

Then I would put forth your example as one where people understood the courtesy of sharing a zone.

If the original poster had made this thread about one of those Bards in that zone I'd be saying that he should simply haved moved onto another zone too.

But at some point.. too much is too much. Claiming an entire zone/lagging a zone as you power-level someone or even farm for platinum is going to have people opening threads to complain.. no matter what the class doing it.

[Danth]

I don't think the problem is *one* Bard. The server rules cover such a case pretty clearly. Problems crop up when you have say 3 or 4 Bards. None of them, individually, breaks any rule but together they have the same effect as one greedy guy. There's no fix, either. Some dungeons have similar problems--it takes only a handful of Enchanters/Necromancers in-zone to make Howling Stones pretty useless, for example.

As such I don't see any resolution to the swarm kiting issue unless swarm kiting itself is massively nerfed and that'd go against the stated purpose of P1999. Some aspects of old-time EQ just sucked.

Danth

[Skydash]

But at some point.. too much is too much. Claiming an entire zone/lagging a zone as you power-level someone or even farm for platinum is going to have people opening threads to complain.. no matter what the class doing it.

Sorry, but zones don't lag on these pulls. Clients lag, they need to turn down their effects or get a better computer.

People were crying about bards in OT, when I was killing there just fine.

The owners of this game are not VI/Sony, they do not crumble under consumer pressures.

[jaybone]

Sorry, but zones don't lag on these pulls. Clients lag, they need to turn down their effects or get a better computer.

People were crying about bards in OT, when I was killing there just fine.

The owners of this game are not VI/Sony, they do not crumble under consumer pressures.

http://replygif.net/i/1355.gif

[Drummond]

Sorry, but zones don't lag on these pulls. Clients lag, they need to turn down their effects or get a better computer.

People were crying about bards in OT, when I was killing there just fine.

The owners of this game are not VI/Sony, they do not crumble under consumer pressures.

At best you are in denial about the reality of what can and cannot lag a zone.

But sure, client's lag too. You're right about that.

[Mandalore93]

The last decade has made us all so soft. I don't recall gms getting involved in stuff like this. The thing that makes me laugh is people who go to these zones and complain knowing full well what is probably happening there.

[Ahldagor]

The last decade has made us all so soft. I don't recall gms getting involved in stuff like this. The thing that makes me laugh is people who go to these zones and complain knowing full well what is probably happening there.

this guy gets it.

[indiscriminate_hater]

The last decade has made us all so soft. I don't recall gms getting involved in stuff like this. The thing that makes me laugh is people who go to these zones and complain knowing full well what is probably happening there.

Seriously. These dumbass threads come out every few weeks and I don't know what people expect to happen. Maybe crying about it makes them feel better. I feel like time would better be spent figuring out a way to avoid people who annoy you in this game. Man/woman the fuck up and experience classic Everquest for what it is

[NextGenesis88]

Go to a dungeon for exp... problem solved.

Bards cannot get groups because of the exp penalty, what do you expect them to do?

Bro, a bard should get a group no problem if they put in an effort. XP penalty is not always the reason. I have a 68% penalty and I have people sending me tells to group continents away. A bard is very useful if they can play it correctly in a group. I grouped a bard ONLY all the way to 50 on live before. They were happy with me and my twists while melee. Bard's have the most group centric abilities in the game.

[bartly]

Bard dots were nerfed on live as soon as it became a problem. It didn't happen for a while because on live you couldn't aoe kite like you can here. Server lag was too high until the POP era. Thats when broadband internet was taking off and POP extended range aas affected bard pbaoes.

The problem with bards on this server never existed in classic. Swarming was the best you could do and that was limited. I would swarm ulthorks and walrus in eastern wastes but you didn't want more than 10 or so or your pet would die too fast. Then Luclin hit and toilers in umbral were the place to be. No one was aoe kiting whole zones unless they were super greens. Server lag made it impossible to do without dying.

Then POP hit and pbaoes took off. HOH was the easiest. Then they combated it with random summoning mobs, which screwed a lot of soloing casters and rangers. Then they just said f it and made bard aoe not affect moving targets...

This isn't really a classic vs later issue. Its the fact that a single player can lock down an entire exp zone. It takes a good 30 mins or so to pull and kill all those mobs.

[Squire]

in my day we rooted kiting bards who were taking all our mobs.

[Drummond]

Seriously. These dumbass threads come out every few weeks and I don't know what people expect to happen. Maybe crying about it makes them feel better. I feel like time would better be spent figuring out a way to avoid people who annoy you in this game. Man/woman the fuck up and experience classic Everquest for what it is

So these threads annoy you.. and yet you are here crying about it instead of avoiding the people that annoy you.

Gotcha.. ;)

Just caught the handle.. never mind.

[applesauce25r624]

So these threads annoy you.. and yet you are here crying about it instead of avoiding the people that annoy you.

Gotcha.. ;)

Just caught the handle.. never mind.

you BETTER edit that post. bards helping bards

watch yer ass

[Drummond]

The last decade made us so soft.. man the fuck up.. stop crying.. watch your ass.

Oh spare me the I play EQ but Im really an internet tough guy routine.

Paalease.

[Quineloe]

The last decade has made us all so soft. I don't recall gms getting involved in stuff like this. The thing that makes me laugh is people who go to these zones and complain knowing full well what is probably happening there.

were you a GM back then? My sister was a guide during kunark and velious, and the shit people petitioned would blow your mind I guess. "a group is camping FBSS and they're not willing to share spawns!" was one of the more common and "reasonable" issues.

[Paleman]

swarm kiting on a 56k modem lol. fuck dat

[Fael]

I saw many bards run around with extremely large kites back in the velious and luclin era.

56k modems were all but dead by that time.

You people have shitty memories.

Dolic

[skipdog]

Yeah, I don't get why everybody here thinks only 56k modems existed in 1999/2000.

Seriously, think back to the year 2000. Think about it. I even had DSL and <100ms ping out in BFE in the middle of Nebraska in the year 2000. I'm sure tons of you who actually lived in real cities had broadband access too.

[Sirelk]

Bard dots were nerfed on live as soon as it became a problem. It didn't happen for a while because on live you couldn't aoe kite like you can here. Server lag was too high until the POP era. Thats when broadband internet was taking off and POP extended range aas affected bard pbaoes.

I had a cable modem in '98. Most people I ran across on The Rathe were on cable or DSL connections. I'm sure there were a lot of people still on dialup, but I would guesstimate it was close to half of our server population when EQ released. Lots of players were in college and had nice bandwidth in dorms and such.

I'm sure the difference in the client software as well as processing power of the day plays a bigger role in why we didn't see swarm kiting in the first years of EQ. Our computers then were slower than the smartphone I'm using now and had less ram to boot.

[Ahldagor]

The last decade made us so soft.. man the fuck up.. stop crying.. watch your ass.

Oh spare me the I play EQ but Im really an internet tough guy routine.

Paalease.

it's more the whining. there are options available which have been presented, and somehow folk of your ilk seem to think that there aren't. you're either willfully ignorant or trolling at this point.

if willfully ignorant then learn to read well and explore the game (play it)

i'll link it again
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299

if trolling then 1/10 for getting me to reply

[Danth]

Yeah, I don't get why everybody here thinks only 56k modems existed in 1999/2000.

I figure most of the folks who think that were little kids who were still using the internet their parents paid for. Hence they probably didn't know any better. Think about it: All these folks in their early/mid 20's here on P1999 were young children when EQ came out.

That being said, having broadband in 1999 didn't necessarily help. Ping times were usually reduced, but EQ ran at a modem-level data rate and didn't send your client more updates simply because you had a better connection than most. Server-side hardware was primitive by today's standards and zones would often lag out if there were too many people. I noticed a much more drastic difference with broadband in first-person shooters of the era than I did in EQ.

Danth

[indiscriminate_hater]

Players like these are manifestations of the "equal share for everyone" mentality which has caused the downfall of modern mmos. Unfairness and imbalance are a large part of what makes classic eq so great. You can either enjoy it for what it is or keep having an unfulfilling gaming experience

[baalzy]

Players like these are manifestations of the "equal share for everyone" mentality which has caused the downfall of modern mmos. Unfairness and imbalance are a large part of what makes classic eq so great. You can either enjoy it for what it is or keep having an unfulfilling gaming experience


Question:

If I do something to screw up your kite and get you killed.

Would you petition?

[indiscriminate_hater]

No. If it was an accident I would let it go. If it was malicious I would probably try to get you back myself

[Fael]

there is nothing you could do to screw up my kite and get me killed.
I would suspect the same is true of any bard worth his salt.


Dolic

[fastboy21]

I figure most of the folks who think that were little kids who were still using the internet their parents paid for. Hence they probably didn't know any better. Think about it: All these folks in their early/mid 20's here on P1999 were young children when EQ came out.

That being said, having broadband in 1999 didn't necessarily help. Ping times were usually reduced, but EQ ran at a modem-level data rate and didn't send your client more updates simply because you had a better connection than most. Server-side hardware was primitive by today's standards and zones would often lag out if there were too many people. I noticed a much more drastic difference with broadband in first-person shooters of the era than I did in EQ.

Danth

I was in college during EQ...and having an ethernet hook up was a huge and noticeable difference compared to when i would use the 56k modem at home. it didn't so much give a lower ping as it did give you a much more stable and trustworthy connection to the game. of course, server side issues affect everyone regardless of how you connect.

[Mandalore93]

Bards really aren't the kind of class you want to make an enemy of. Even in PvE there are just a lot of shit they can do to fuck your day up.

And that might have been the kind of petition that they received...the only times I petitioned people was for kill stealing and even then I was basically told to go to another camp. Stupid wizard outside Paw stealing my kills that fucktard. This on live, mind you.

While I play a bard myself and have kited almost exclusively, I've never had an issue with people for the most part aside from an occasional over pull here and there. Then again I play on off peak times.

[fastboy21]

And that might have been the kind of petition that they received...the only times I petitioned people was for kill stealing and even then I was basically told to go to another camp. Stupid wizard outside Paw stealing my kills that fucktard. This on live, mind you.



hmmm...

i used to ks folks on my wizard all the time on live outside paw. what server and what was your name?

[Quineloe]

KS was basically the class definition of wizard back then.

[Mandalore93]

hmmm...

i used to ks folks on my wizard all the time on live outside paw. what server and what was your name?

Brell! I think I was playing under Rutil, might have been bopbope at that time though, lol. Been a while! ;P

[skipdog]

I figure most of the folks who think that were little kids who were still using the internet their parents paid for. Hence they probably didn't know any better. Think about it: All these folks in their early/mid 20's here on P1999 were young children when EQ came out.

That being said, having broadband in 1999 didn't necessarily help. Ping times were usually reduced, but EQ ran at a modem-level data rate and didn't send your client more updates simply because you had a better connection than most. Server-side hardware was primitive by today's standards and zones would often lag out if there were too many people. I noticed a much more drastic difference with broadband in first-person shooters of the era than I did in EQ.

Danth

Oh I agree completely. You didn't really gain any 'edge' by having broadband in EQ. I was just pointing out how silly it is that everybody screams 56k when the reality, is that most of us were off 56k by that point!

[Rec]

roll a bard and you too can pull half the zone

[applesauce25r624]

there is nothing you could do to screw up my kite and get me killed.
I would suspect the same is true of any bard worth his salt.


Dolic

damn right

i do the keyboard rhythm tap method, meaning I'm zoomed way far out

i'd see somebody trying to mess with the pack.

I would widen the circle while petitioning

you nooblets can't win. bards are like squirrels. you can't outsmart them. they will always steal your food

[HalflingWarrior]

Swarm kiting has already, intentionally, been made more difficult on p99 in the form of faster mobs with larger hitboxes

[HalflingWarrior]

Outdoor zones I can see, but the AOE pulls are a bit much in dungeons. When 1 Druid pulls the entire bottom and 2nd Floor of Unrest at once to PL one player it's wrong. Watched it happen for 4 hours straight the other night.

Just my opinion. Taking exp from potentially 18 players to accelerate the leveling speed of 1 is about as selfish as it gets.

Yea I find it funny so many ppl are complaining about bards AOE kiting to LEVEL THEMSELVES UP yet nobody cares about the fact every lowbie zone is mass pulled by chanter and druid PLers

[HalflingWarrior]

Also you people trashtalking bard kiters while simultaneously talking about intentionally xp killing them - AE kiting MAY BE against the rules. Intentionally xp killing players is DEFINITELY against the rules

[Sarajo]

Yea I find it funny so many ppl are complaining about bards AOE kiting to LEVEL THEMSELVES UP yet nobody cares about the fact every lowbie zone is mass pulled by chanter and druid PLers

This is what bugs the honey out of me, too. If you claim that you had trouble finding a group and/or finding things to hunt, you're required to provide more evidence than the O.J. Simpson trial AND the John F. Kennedy assassination combined in screenshots and server logs and developer response or else they'll strawman you and shut you down and refute everything you say, regardless of accuracy.

But claim that a single bard was controlling all of the Karanas in between respawns and they're like "i nooooo dats so true!!!! We gotta root them murrfkin bards!"

[Daldaen]

Yea I find it funny so many ppl are complaining about bards AOE kiting to LEVEL THEMSELVES UP yet nobody cares about the fact every lowbie zone is mass pulled by chanter and druid PLers

Lol... no

If I am sitting in treeform for 30 minutes as an un-anon/role level 60 druid in Unrest. EVERY train I get tells, bar none. I guarantee it.

It is ALWAYS the powerlevelers fault for someone elses mistake. Because people are stupid.

[Ahldagor]

Lol... no

If I am sitting in treeform for 30 minutes as an un-anon/role level 60 druid in Unrest. EVERY train I get tells, bar none. I guarantee it.

It is ALWAYS the powerlevelers fault for someone elses mistake. Because people are stupid.

no, it's because we're all unique and special.

[Tealia]

Lol... no

If I am sitting in treeform for 30 minutes as an un-anon/role level 60 druid in Unrest. EVERY train I get tells, bar none. I guarantee it.

No clue here, but my enc doesn't get yelled at for killing people in my many hours of non-anon Unrest patrolling. Anti-druid bias or just gnome love?

[bartly]

No clue here, but my enc doesn't get yelled at for killing people in my many hours of non-anon Unrest patrolling. Anti-druid bias or just gnome love?

Druid PL with thorns and heals can cause huge trains. Mobs are green to the druid so they all run even if social and they run fast. I've seen some enormous PL trains in Crushbone and Blackburrow. And all those lowbies get steamrolled. They don't have thorns, skin, regen, and superior heals inc.

[baalzy]

Yea I find it funny so many ppl are complaining about bards AOE kiting to LEVEL THEMSELVES UP yet nobody cares about the fact every lowbie zone is mass pulled by chanter and druid PLers


Uh... Joined February 2014. There's probably 3 posts a week about jackass' PLing in Unrest during prime time when newbies are trying to level.

Simple fact is most people don't like jackass assholes who hog huge number of mobs for the benefit of 1-2 people while denying multiple other groups of people.

It became such a problem that in the past 2ish months the GMs had to change the rules to explicitly state this is not okay.

The only ones defending it are the same jackass assholes that are being complained about.

Edit: And the bard challenge about not being screwed with. Let's try it in burning woods. I think it would be fun to drop a couple dots on Gullerback and then feign in the middle of your pack.

[indiscriminate_hater]

^ lol at white knight attempt. You haven't really thought this one through have you?

[Mandalore93]

And he doesn't even give a good example, you can kite Guller just fine. He just is 100% resistant. Just have to zone him out afterwards, then he comes looking for ya :P

Far worse would be dragging a spell casting Sarnak over. Then you might kill the bard, but he could always just start training you right back with 20x the mobs. Plus unless you roam with see invis up, you'd never see the bard (presuming he's level 51+), though you *might* see the 20 mobs. Or he could just start charming every mob that you fight. Or dispelling all your dots.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Or dropping a bracer of the hidden proc on a fd body.

I assume he was talking about trying to get a summoner aggroed onto you but that brings a whole slew of problems. First you would have to find a guller that actually summons (most don't). Then you would have to get him below 95% health and somehow drag him through the bards kite in hopes of one landing on the gorilla for aggro transfer, all the while getting summoned and beat down yourself. Aggro transfer would have to be instantaneous (hence need for bard to hit it with aoe) otherwise the instant regen would pop it up past 95% health. If it didn't then the full health guller would aggro the bard but be completely harmless because bard aoe magic songs don't land on him.

Suffice to say baalzy doesn't know what the hell he is talking about

[Sarajo]

Originally Posted by This thread
countless logical fallacies

http://thumbitt.com/gallery/185/2185/cdc6b42e9011eb1d6ea5bf441a344b8e.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcy151EHOZ1rauvy5o8_r1_500.gif

[baalzy]

And he doesn't even give a good example, you can kite Guller just fine. He just is 100% resistant. Just have to zone him out afterwards, then he comes looking for ya :P

Far worse would be dragging a spell casting Sarnak over. Then you might kill the bard, but he could always just start training you right back with 20x the mobs. Plus unless you roam with see invis up, you'd never see the bard (presuming he's level 51+), though you *might* see the 20 mobs. Or he could just start charming every mob that you fight. Or dispelling all your dots.

A necro who can't see invis? Never gunna happen in an outdoor zone. And I don't really care about killing the bard cause I know how long it takes them to gather up those mobs. 5 min of my work to drop guller on them is going to cause them to lose 20 min of gathering time. That said, timed right all you'd have to do is sick your pet on guller as you feign. With the current aggro transfer rules all I have to do is get guller within range of the kite for a second for him to put mr bardy bard on his hate list. My pet shouldn't have much of a problem with getting guller down to summon range so as soon as it dies it'll begin summoning the bard.

Also not so concerned with them trying to train me back. That's not my end game.

Now if you want to get into petition quest, I don't have to do anything. The bard is already breaking the rules if they refuse to limit their swarms when other people are around.

But I mean, this could all be solved by these bards not acting like asshats.

[Hailto]

A necro who can't see invis? Never gunna happen in an outdoor zone. And I don't really care about killing the bard cause I know how long it takes them to gather up those mobs. 5 min of my work to drop guller on them is going to cause them to lose 20 min of gathering time. That said, timed right all you'd have to do is sick your pet on guller as you feign. With the current aggro transfer rules all I have to do is get guller within range of the kite for a second for him to put mr bardy bard on his hate list. My pet shouldn't have much of a problem with getting guller down to summon range so as soon as it dies it'll begin summoning the bard.

Also not so concerned with them trying to train me back. That's not my end game.

Now if you want to get into petition quest, I don't have to do anything. The bard is already breaking the rules if they refuse to limit their swarms when other people are around.

But I mean, this could all be solved by these bards not acting like asshats.

You don't even know how to train...please go.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Ehhh, there are a ton of places to swarm without pissing everyone off.

OT? Pull towards the canyon. Leave fm and sf ramps along.
DL? Stay away from east and north walls of kc.
BW? Stay away from the giant fort?
SK? Leave KFC.

I really don't asked what's so hard about that. You can take 80% of the zone without anyone even noticing a bard is levelling. When someone runs a giant train right over top of you (Water was notorious for this in DL) you will pick up agro.

Have to admit though, it's a bittersweet moment when you get unexpected bard adds knowing that the only reason they're attacking you is because he died.

[myriverse]

I really don't asked what's so hard about that. You can take 80% of the zone without anyone even noticing a bard is levelling. When someone runs a giant train right over top of you (Water was notorious for this in DL) you will pick up agro.

Have to admit though, it's a bittersweet moment when you get unexpected bard adds knowing that the only reason they're attacking you is because he died.
Yeah. It's happened a time or two in LOIO.

But never a big deal. Got no problem with music makers.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Yeah. It's happened a time or two in LOIO.

But never a big deal. Got no problem with music makers.

I've got no hate either but yeah, the ones that get flamed are the ones pulling from the most camped areas in zones. Very small amount of effort required to tighten pulls and FFs, be aware where your goddamn kite is. Dragging it over people, especially with new sit agro should be tantamount to intentional training.

[NextGenesis88]

the reason bards have a hard time finding grps is that most bards don't know how to play their toon in a grp. they think their role is sing mana song and /assist attack. if thats all they do they are not worth their class hybrid penalty.

in other words, the reason that some bards can't find grps is that many bards suck at actually playing.

of course, one of the reasons they suck at playing is that they spent the first 50 levels of their char being PLd or swarming. playing a bard in a group is a totally different game.

a good bard is constantly twisting, mezzing, charming, swapping instruments and swapping targets...oh, and you get to be puller and snarer much of the time as well. Many bards either don't know how or don't want to play that game.

if you are a good bard you will very easily be noticed and find plenty of good groups.

QFT

A bard can't find groups? I guess they forget that their class is the most GROUP CENTRIC of them all. When people say that it's just laughable. I played a bard to 50 grouping and it's just awesome how many ways you can benefit a group. You could say it's the most social class there is.

I'm not really against swarming as long as it's done respectfully, but it's not my style as a bard although I would maybe do it here and there just to master every possible way to play him.

Let me ask everyone this. Would the world of Norrath be a better place if swarming wasn't possible? I don't think you could say no to this question. It's definitely something to think about. If I would brag about anything as a bard, it would most definitely be grouping ability/skills and I would feel the most proud of that by far.

[NextGenesis88]

Yea I find it funny so many ppl are complaining about bards AOE kiting to LEVEL THEMSELVES UP yet nobody cares about the fact every lowbie zone is mass pulled by chanter and druid PLers

Seriously? Just saying dude, bards do the same thing... and I've actually seen it more often then any other class. I am not saying whether I am against it or not, just stating that you had a pretty big oversight there. I'm not sure how.

[Kekephee]

edit: forget it

[rawwhide]

I mained a bard on live and I never pulled over groups and tried my best to keep away from the general population while playing my bard. I just left OT on my chanter because a trio of bards were pulling all the mobs from the low level side. Not only were they pulling all the mobs they would run up to and pull mobs that you were tagging. They were so close I was able to pull from there train. This is why bards get a bad reputation and why people hate them so. This is why bards AoE got nerfed on live. Just because you can pull all the mobs in a zone doesn't mean you SHOULD!


edit: apparently this is an issue if people keep seeing threads like this every week.