recharging and duck spell canceling

[Mac Dretti]

Will these game breaking exploits be fixed soon?

It appears the ability to trivialize the content on blue server with recharging is a widely accepted strategy and defeats the entire nature of the project.

Also duck canceling spell casting is broken and out of timeline.

[Wrench]

pick one

your argument for the latter conflicts the former

[Mac Dretti]

pick one

your argument for the latter conflicts the former

No, it doesnt because the former trivialized content and allows people to monopolize certain plat generating practices and mob camps.

It was disabled on red because it trivialized PvP.

It should be disabled on blue because it trivialized PvE.

[Tecmos Deception]

No, it doesnt because the former trivialized content and allows people to monopolize certain plat generating practices and mob camps.

It was disabled on red because it trivialized PvP.

It should be disabled on blue because it trivialized PvE.

Would love to see real evidence of people monopolizing certain plat-generating camps and mob camps because said camps are trivial due to recharging. I mean, that's what this forum is for, right? Real evidence of bugs, not lame red trolls?

[Mac Dretti]

not suprised that you would be against it since you probably recharge puppet strings, rune shields, slow mallets and a plethora of other clickies that you use in your "solo challenges"

not to mention to solo farm group camps

[Tecmos Deception]

I don't own strings or bladestoppers, or use midnight mallets ever (not that changing recharging would make mallets difficult to get anyways). If you had read the solo thread instead of just being a lame red troll, you'd have seen that the vast majority of the kills in that thread were done specifically without clickies, and that the fights where people often employ clickies end up costing the person money instead of making them money.

Shouldn't you be on red prasing alecta for doing god's work or something? Or carrying on in ooc about the 1 yt the server sees every 20 minutes?

[Handull]

you know how easy it is to get a fresh midnight mallet, right? easy quest that is cheaper than it appears to be.

recharging is classic

[Tecmos Deception]

Fuck it. Take out recharging AND vendor gate pots. I don't care. It's as easy to do my own CR with banked charisma gear as it is to run from WC to Freeport to rechage my hat, anyways, and I hardly use other clickies. It'd be a net win for me! Lol :)

[Mac Dretti]

judging by how defensive you are and the insults your making, i can tell this directly affects you

nerf recharging on blue because it trivializes pve content

[Tecmos Deception]

Bring it on!

[Haynar]

I spent a bit of effort getting recharging to work. I am for keeping it.

All for duck interrupt casting going away, as long as medding with face in spell books goes with it.

H

[Nirgon]

Item recharging is very bad. Every player on the server wasn't doing it on live.

Show me logs from live of people blowing midnight mallets on every raid encounter and rushing it down while giving 0 fucks.

Ducking is an easy one, nail that.

To offset ducking, spell gems will refresh with insta clickies. The above sounds good to me.

[Nirgon]

Another point is I don't think with midnight mallet recharging that its even possible for someone to get low hp aggro during raid mob aoe's.

[Haynar]

To offset ducking, spell gems will refresh with insta clickies.
Can we say ... maybe .... maybe soon?

H

[Tecmos Deception]

Item recharging is very bad. Every player on the server wasn't doing it on live.

Show me logs from live of people blowing midnight mallets on every raid encounter and rushing it down while giving 0 fucks.

Ducking is an easy one, nail that.

To offset ducking, spell gems will refresh with insta clickies. The above sounds good to me.

Classic experiencerience v. classic mechanics. You often can't have both. This is one of those times. I don't get the impression that even CLOSE to "everyone" uses wc caps though, especially not frequently, let alone nets rings mallets ch clicks sham pots etc. Almost no one rocks strings bladestoppers shield of the immaculate etc, they are just visible when they do imo.

I'd be excited to see duck + refresh changes roll around though!

[Mac Dretti]

I spent a bit of effort getting recharging to work. I am for keeping it.

All for duck interrupt casting going away, as long as medding with face in spell books goes with it.

H

Why? it completely trivializes the content, it makes some of the most difficult encounters laughable and takes away from the spirit of the game. The same reason why soulfires were made paladin only and the Donal's BP got nerfed.

If I can get a hold of some plat, charge puppet strings to sell overthere hammers, use profits to buy more chargeables, I can literally do anything I want in the game without ever grouping, and making 6 man groups sit there s-o-l while I solo a camp.

On a highly congested server like blue, where content is 3 years old, wouldn't it make sense to allow people to play and not reward those who exploit merchant buy backs.

Also it's disabled on red because it was determined very early how bad it was... and thats a 200 person server.

[Nirgon]

Raids having enough midnight mallets for full clears (all content) is pretty stupid. Just saying.

Haynar you can say whatever you want brewdog. I hope soon means soon!

[Daldaen]

In fairness though, Rubies are what? 130~ plat. Recharging Mallet is 420~ plat. So you spend 3 rubies per recharge.

Last time I ran through the quest I went 20 rubies and got 7 Mallets. 7/20 is pretty damn near 1/3.

Don't think nerfing it would be all that much of a change for mallets. Would just mean people have to spawn Lynunga more.

[Nirgon]

I'm not losing my mind over this one truz me. Its just that it wasn't something in wide spread use that I'd think we would implement for a while like, say, the manastone dropping or being usable in the planes for a time.

[Splorf22]

Basically I agree with Tecmos: do you want to have classic mechanics or classic playstyle?

In a vacuum, I am all for increasing the costs to recharge items. Paying 500p per click of the puppet strings instead of 85p would be a lot more balanced. But what pisses me off about this stuff is that people like Mac only want to nerf stuff that helps the players. How about we remove hybrid penalties? Or increase Charm mana cost? Or give Wizards critical nukes? All of those would help game balance for sure. Not to mention the fact that rather than figuring out creative ways to nerf the players I would hope that the devs would put more priority on fixing the large number of bugs we have now (am I bitter that the devs closed my huge bug thread? just a bit).

[Mac Dretti]

Sig says solo artist

Wants to keep recharging

[flahling]

Mac as Tecmos said they dont use clickies. Not everyone has killed CT to have bags of strings because we arent on the red trying to push a nerf to a server we dont play. Its okay maybe someone will roll a new char and you can grief him with a few fungi alts or kill CT again for more strings. Let us "blubies be carebeared." Ever think you are part of reds pop issues?
Endrant /mad off

[triad]

question whats the big deal with ducking stopping casts?

[baalzy]

It's incredibly useful. Start casting the wrong spell? Duck and immediately cast a new spell. In classic only getting stunned would stop your cast early.

Course the other side of it would be if duck-casting doesn't insta-cancel then you should be able to sit and med through a cast and stand at the last second, letting you hit a tick of mana while casting CH, for example.

[Faerie]

It would be great if there was more consistency between the two servers. Bluebies getting to duck interrupt when the rest of us don't is pretty lame.

[Tecmos Deception]

Sig says solo artist

Wants to keep recharging

:rolleyes:


Bluebies getting to duck interrupt when the rest of us don't is pretty lame.

You should try reading the thread.

[Daldaen]

I'm not losing my mind over this one truz me. Its just that it wasn't something in wide spread use that I'd think we would implement for a while like, say, the manastone dropping or being usable in the planes for a time.

Most certainly it wasn't wide spread. But you can't change that unless you take mallet out of game, or you make that spell have 0 aggro or you add a cast time to it (even then people will use a single charge on engage most likely so long as the cast time is feasible).

If they want to make a change that isn't classic fine, but I agree with Loraen here...

Remove hybrid penalty
Add iksar planar armor
Implement epic revamps

Stuff that was done 12~ months on live after Kunark launch to fix imbalances. Not 36-48~ months after Kunark launch.

Oh and SoulFire... Please make that Paladin only clickable. People buying MQs for non paladin is so unclassic it's stupid.

[Tecmos Deception]

You don't seem to be consistent, dald. Soulfires used for CH clicks is just like mallets used for aggro. Both are classic mechanics, it's just that p99's players use these mechanics in ways and on a scale not seen during the live classic era. You can't change the mechanics and say "it's classic" any more than you can leave the mechanics and call the experience classic. The devs decide when they leave mechanics classic (most recharging) or when they try to tweak mechanics to achieve a more classic experience (ivandyr's hoops on raid bosses)... or if they want to do something inbetween (don't have any examples off the top of my head though).

Imo, for what it's worth, mechanics should generally be as classic as possible and whatever result you end up with is just what happens when you have players in 2014 playing a game from 1999. It's just like with any old thing that people still like to spend time with now. Would you want the author of your favorite book to update the way of writing and the story and the cover art and the names and shit just because you've read it enough times to know it inside and out already? Probably not. You just enjoy it as your favorite book, even though you know how it ends as soon as start rereading it. Would you want a remake of the Godfather with new actors and a tweaked story? Fuck no. Would you want to play a tweaked version of Doom that is designed to foil the strategies and knowledge of level layout and stuff that players have nowadays instead of just enjoying the game the way it was made? I hope not. Etc.

[Daldaen]

The selling of SoulFire MQs is largely what bothers me about it. And it was specifically nerfed during Velious so only paladins could use. I haven't seen Lucan up in awhile due to what I assume is people farming to MQ or to use on their raids or solo challenges. The Brother Hayle shout calls out a non paladin 90%+ of the time and that is certainly not classic.

It's a debate of classic environment (minimal use of these clickies and recharges), VS classic mechanics (MQing and recharging no problems). Which do we care about more... That needs to be decided by the staff and really it's pretty irrelevant what we think.

They have gone both ways. See pet tank changes due to pre Kunark PoSky / see Ivandyrs hoops. And see recharges being in and MQs being in.

Is it a classic FEEL to not see people pet tank PoSky or Hoop down bosses, yes
Is it a classic MECHANIC no.
Is it a classic FEEL to see level 1 rogues and clerics with epics, no.
Is it a classic MECHANIC that quests can be MQed at any level only checking faction, yes.

[Tecmos Deception]

You acknowledge it is the impossible issue of classic mechanics v. classic experience and that it is the devs' decision to make, but not before arguing "NOT CLASSIC" and that a Velious change should go in now because you dislike seeing level 30-something SK's getting a soulfire! :p

[maximum]

Basically I agree with Tecmos: do you want to have classic mechanics or classic playstyle?

Let's all get memory wipes back to the Year 2000, and just keep the classic mechanics in-game. Problem solved.

[Faerie]

You should try reading the thread.

I did read the thread; it's mostly been you guys talking about recharging. All I'm saying is you guys get an unclassic feature that we don't, and it's a pretty huge one. And it's been an issue on blue server for a long, long time. It's just a pet peeve of mine needing to wait until the end of a port cast to do anything when someone's like, "Wait!" Or even interrupting a CH on cleric. Maybe I was just spoiled as a bard on live during this time period, and never had to put up with this nonsense.

Sure it's a pretty small issue in the grand scheme of things, but it really gives the sense that the devs see the servers differently when they should be treated the same in most ways. You guys shouldn't be able to recharge either, because it is a very exploitable function of the game. I'm sure it's happening to some extent, with people making efforts to keep it hush-hush.

Also WTB classic xp on red.

[Daldaen]

You acknowledge it is the impossible issue of classic mechanics v. classic experience and that it is the devs' decision to make, but not before arguing "NOT CLASSIC" and that a Velious change should go in now because you dislike seeing level 30-something SK's getting a soulfire! :p

Velious changes should go in now, regardless of this thread and I'm sure you could find me posting months ago about this.

They fixed Classic/Kunark content that was broken, and just so happened to finally get released during Velious. The time (number of month) to their release is all that should matter. Not where they fell in the timeline (Velious era). It didn't really add much content, just fixed stuff they acknowledged was broken... Iksar armor is an exception to that, but I feel bad for iksar tanks and shamans. Their bis gear is so bad I feel for them.

I agree it's the devs choice but I can still think SoulFires are absolutely stupid on non-paladins. Nothing will change that til they finally fix it I think that was around Velious $$$.

[Erati]

cant u recharge items on EQ live right now like we do on P99?

as in you ve always been able to recharge even if it wasnt totally forseen by original devs?

[draogan]

I'm so confused. Why are people that play red arguing about what should/shouldn't be nerfed on the carebear server?

I have no idea what goes on over on the red side. You guys could log in and type /level 60 and being 60 with epic gear for all I know. Nor do I care... because I don't play there. Why are two people from red arguing vehemently about what should be nerfed on the blue server? Misery loves company?

FWIW, I'm against duck spell canceling going away but don't care one way or the other re: recharge. Getting rid of duck spell canceling doesn't change anything about content or PvE balance but just makes us all a little bit more irritated every time we play -- though I guess irritation is very classic...

[Mac Dretti]

Correct me i'm wrong, but wasn't soulfire usable by anyone from inventory at this time in the live timeline?

It was nerfed much sooner here because it allowed content to be trivialized. You want 5 instant CH's for raids? Add Paladins to your guild.

Same should be done with recharging.

You want the luxury of WC Gate hats? Go on the Journey and quest it. You want mallets for raids? Go turn in rubies. You want allure wands? Go raid planes. You want OT hammer? Do the faction quest/farm sarnaks. You want root nets? Go to permafrost and camp them.

Wait until velious when a guild wipes in sleeper/TOV and they have their monk using rechargable rez sticks to get the entire guild back up and going in 2.5 minutes. It's going to be a joke and any guild waiting to move in is going to be screwed because they will never be able to move in after Guild A wipes.

[Daldaen]

cant u recharge items on EQ live right now like we do on P99?

as in you ve always been able to recharge even if it wasnt totally forseen by original devs?

Negative. Vendor recharge was fixed in 2004/2005ish. Took devs that long to decide it was bad for the game. Though not before adding ridiculously high sell-backs for stuff like fungus beast glands (10 charge instant snare) from fungus grove beast cycle, darkness rods (10 charge darkness snare) from warrens, Rez stick (10 charge Rez) from Vox; as well as removing that from game.

But it did last through PoP. So for all intents and purposes of this server, it should remain as a classic mechanic. I imagine that if devs see it as an issue they will resolve it like Ivandyrs hoops were. Make the reward more rare, impossible to recharge and decrease benefit somehow (lifetaps more resist able)

There are a few Velious items I hope it sticks around for. But if it doesn't i can live with that too.

[Faerie]

I'm so confused. Why are people that play red arguing about what should/shouldn't be nerfed on the carebear server?

I have no idea what goes on over on the red side. You guys could log in and type /level 60 and being 60 with epic gear for all I know. Nor do I care... because I don't play there. Why are two people from red arguing vehemently about what should be nerfed on the blue server? Misery loves company?

FWIW, I'm against duck spell canceling going away but don't care one way or the other re: recharge. Getting rid of duck spell canceling doesn't change anything about content or PvE balance but just makes us all a little bit more irritated every time we play -- though I guess irritation is very classic...

http://i.imgur.com/4ByAoLu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/M0Py3PE.jpg

[Tecmos Deception]

I did read the thread; it's mostly been you guys talking about recharging. All I'm saying is you guys get an unclassic feature that we don't, and it's a pretty huge one. And it's been an issue on blue server for a long, long time. It's just a pet peeve of mine needing to wait until the end of a port cast to do anything when someone's like, "Wait!" Or even interrupting a CH on cleric. Maybe I was just spoiled as a bard on live during this time period, and never had to put up with this nonsense.

Sure it's a pretty small issue in the grand scheme of things, but it really gives the sense that the devs see the servers differently when they should be treated the same in most ways. You guys shouldn't be able to recharge either, because it is a very exploitable function of the game. I'm sure it's happening to some extent, with people making efforts to keep it hush-hush.

Also WTB classic xp on red.

Did you miss the post with Haynar basically saying that ducking and gem refreshes were going to be happening on blue? Other than that though, it sounds like you should start your own server.


I agree it's the devs choice but I can still think SoulFires are absolutely stupid on non-paladins. Nothing will change that til they finally fix it I think that was around Velious $$$.

Why do you think that soulfires are dumb on non-paladins? For like roleplaying reasons, or for balance reasons? If for balance reasons, well... as soon as soulfires get nerfed they'll just be someone in befallen working on turning out reapers 24/7, and then every single person in a raid will have one... and they can be recharged and traded and don't require killing Lucan or grinding reps up! And if they nerf those, what about stinging wort potions? They've got more healing in them for non-tanks than a CH does. You gonna kill off alchemy because some players nowadays realize it is good for more than sow and shrink pots? You gonna kill off the biggest plat sink on the server because a handful of people recharge semifrequently? Etc.

Bottom line is, again, classic mechanics v. classic experience. People generally argue for one sometimes and the other the rest of the time to tailor to their image of a perfect server instead of just embracing what is here right now and enjoying it for what it is. Yeah, I like recharging the few clickies I use, but like I said earlier in this thread, it'd probably be a net win for me if recharging became impossible... so it isn't like I'm in favor of it because of personal bias.


The god damn thread only exists because red trolls aren't happy unless everyone else is miserable, anyways.

[Mac Dretti]

are you implying non paladins can click soulfire right now?

edit: wow you are right...


[PvP Only] The following items may only be clicked by the appropriate class
SoulFire may only be clicked by paladins.
Reaper of the Dead may only be clicked by shadow knights.

i remember reading nilbog/rogean talking about how dumb it was that a single tank/cleric could take a ragefire/naggy with soulfires and rune shields, but i guess they never pulled the trigger

[Tecmos Deception]

Getting rid of duck spell canceling doesn't change anything

You're wrong about that.

Start casting a CH with a fatfinger button press when you mean to cast a remedy? Say goodnight to your enchanter. Mean to cast feign death but you accidentally started the 16-second cast on EoT by mistake? Hope you didn't need to feign death too badly! Etc.

[Faerie]

Did you miss the post with Haynar basically saying that ducking and gem refreshes were going to be happening on blue?

Seemed to me like he was talking about red.

[Tecmos Deception]

are you implying non paladins can click soulfire right now?

On blue they can, yes.

[Daldaen]

Don't disagree with you on your last point. But 5 charge vs 1 charge is different. And stinging wort potions aren't even comparable. Reapers don't block players of the proper class from doing one of the most, if not the most, iconic EQ Quest from classic because min-maxers want 5 charges of CH to engage Trakanon with for their 1296th-1299th Teeth.

[Tecmos Deception]

Seemed to me like he was talking about red.

Maybe. I assumed since the thread was started with complaints about blue that changes mentioned in it would apply to blue.

[Tecmos Deception]

Don't disagree with you on your last point. But 5 charge vs 1 charge is different. And stinging wort potions aren't even comparable. Reapers don't block players of the proper class from doing one of the most, if not the most, iconic EQ Quest from classic because min-maxers want 5 charges of CH to engage Trakanon with for their 1296th-1299th Teeth.

I'd share your concern if there were more than 6 paladins on the server, or if most of the people who kill Lucan wouldn't bow out to let an actual paladin work on his epic.

[Faerie]

Maybe. I assumed since the thread was started with complaints about blue that changes mentioned in it would apply to blue.

Well he was talking to a red player, and only quoted the part about gem refresh... ignoring the part about "fixing" ducking on blue.

[Faerie]

Also that would kinda be like a slap in the face if they fixed gem refresh with clickies and then nerfed blue to where red has been since 2011. How long has blue had duck interrupt?

[Erati]

blue has had duck interrupt forever

2009

[pasi]

Wait until velious when a guild wipes in sleeper/TOV and they have their monk using rechargable rez sticks to get the entire guild back up and going in 2.5 minutes. It's going to be a joke and any guild waiting to move in is going to be screwed because they will never be able to move in after Guild A wipes.

Rez goos are ridiculously common. Necros can also easily rez and DA train away adds. Guilds also have the common sense to put a cleric bot in the ST pipe or near Aaryonar. Keep in mind you pull almost everything to Aaryonar for the first year anyways.

Recharging doesn't affect a lot on blue; whereas on red, it is much different.

Golem Wands and WC Caps on recharge would be a horrible thing for PvP.

Mallets will more or less be the same. Puppet String's biggest effect is flooding the server with OT hammers, but that's more or less a convenience thing. It allows for certain classes to do great things with smaller numbers, but the effect doesn't matter a ton since the major difficulty on blue is actually finding alive mobs.

WC Caps allow people to cheat death in some cases, but it's still nothing game breaking in the context of PvE.

Lastly, Lockets will allow melee to bind easier in PoM. Mostly effects monks as other melee don't get PoM armor.

[draogan]

You're wrong about that.

Start casting a CH with a fatfinger button press when you mean to cast a remedy? Say goodnight to your enchanter. Mean to cast feign death but you accidentally started the 16-second cast on EoT by mistake? Hope you didn't need to feign death too badly! Etc.

Who keeps pet summon spells loaded for more than 10s? :p

What I meant by my comment is that duck interrupting doesn't change anything in terms of balance -- aka there aren't any encounters that are trivial because people can duck interrupt which would suddenly become harder. Instead, we would all be subject to more annoying deaths from just the kind of fat finger mistakes you mention above.

Then again, more annoying deaths definitely == classic.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Also that would kinda be like a slap in the face if they fixed gem refresh with clickies and then nerfed blue to where red has been since 2011. How long has blue had duck interrupt?

So then play on blue and un-slap your face.

[Tecmos Deception]

I think it'll go quite a bit beyond a few more annoying deaths when you fatfinger something! Maybe we'll get to find out eventually :)

[Erati]

ill never forget on classic live i was dueling a fellow wiz and i accidently clicked my VP lure stick as my first spell

i stood there casting this 12 or whatever spell while the guy i was dueling kind of laughed and then ice cometd me

it was embarrassing and soon as i hit the hotkey i was screwed

ducking comes in w velious tho... not sure why we take it out now...

[Faerie]

So then play on blue and un-slap your face.

Lol gross. Sorry, I have some amount of self-respect :P

[Wrench]

Lol gross. Sorry, I have some amount of self-respect :P

no you dont, your in here arguing how unfair it is that 'they get something i dont'

[Faerie]

no you dont, your in here arguing how unfair it is that 'they get something i dont'

I'm just a proponent of the classic experience, friend.

[Raavak]

Item recharging is very bad. Every player on the server wasn't doing it on live.Item recharging is Classic. We were recharging rez sticks up until the price was nerfed way after Velious release. How come the price is so high right now??? Not Classic.

[Wrench]

I'm just a proponent of the classic experience, friend.

no your not, your arguing for things on blue to be the same as red

red is NOT classic

[Tecmos Deception]

All I'm saying is you guys get an unclassic feature that we don't, and it's a pretty huge one. And it's been an issue on blue server for a long, long time. It's just a pet peeve of mine needing to wait until the end of a port cast to do anything when someone's like, "Wait!" Or even interrupting a CH on cleric. Maybe I was just spoiled as a bard on live during this time period, and never had to put up with this nonsense.

...

You guys shouldn't be able to recharge either, because it is a very exploitable function of the game. I'm sure it's happening to some extent, with people making efforts to keep it hush-hush.

I'm just a proponent of the classic experience, friend.


http://www.quickmeme.com/img/89/8917a8deb8c7e4727eab8b56f0687d7b30999dc929c01e1610 9ecb6fbba7566f.jpg

[nilbog]

If there is a new bug in here, repost it in new thread with no trolling.

[nilbog]

Moved from bugs to a chat area, so people can continue to discuss their opinions.

Note: bug forums are not for discussion unless discussing research.

Thanks.

[Mac Dretti]

Bump - every poster against it so far is a soloer/duoer or OT hammer seller with selfish motives

[Juhstin]

Wasn't this thread locked?

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Bump - every poster against it so far is a soloer/duoer or OT hammer seller with selfish motives

What's your motive?

[Mac Dretti]

What's your motive?

To play the game for what it is. Not exploit merchant buyback to solo end game kunark mobs with a cleric or solo ragefire w a soulfire warrior

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

To play the game for what it is. Not exploit merchant buyback to solo end game kunark mobs with a cleric or solo ragefire w a soulfire warrior

But is that really your motive?

[STOP CHEWIE NOOOO]

i guess itd be too much to expect bluebies to mouse their way over to the correct spell gem the first time

[Swish]

http://media.thedailytouch.com/2013/10/its-not-fair.gif

[baalzy]

I don't vendor recharge and I don't see the problem with it.

Wee, some people who've got a few clickies can do pretty cool things.

If you want to go on a crusade about classic-mechanics being classic (but game-breaking), start whining about epic MQs instead.

[Pringles]

When will we have latency 350ms+? That shits classic, and greatly changed how we all played (especially casters)

[loramin]

Am I missing something about duck ... can't you get the exact same effect by jumping? Now granted you can't jump while levitating, but otherwise it doesn't seem like a duck nerf would be a big deal.

As for recharges, P99 seems far more like a classic mechanics server than a classic environment server to me. The only environment over mechanics decision I can think of (besides the ones already mentioned) is redoing Quillmane to not have the '#' hack; everything else on the server seems to prioritize classic mechanics over classic environment.

[Rhambuk]

change it up especially item recharging.

I believe the issue with duck canceling is that ducking immediately stops your cast and allows you to recast when it should force you to finish the spell cast with an interrupt

[HalflingWarrior]

Classic experiencerience v. classic mechanics. You often can't have both. This is one of those times. I don't get the impression that even CLOSE to "everyone" uses wc caps though, especially not frequently, let alone nets rings mallets ch clicks sham pots etc. Almost no one rocks strings bladestoppers shield of the immaculate etc, they are just visible when they do imo.

I'd be excited to see duck + refresh changes roll around though!

Id disagree. Looking at the IB recruitment page, youre basically required fo have all the above if u ever wanna get tagged

[baalzy]

Id disagree. Looking at the IB recruitment page, youre basically required fo have all the above if u ever wanna get tagged

IBs total membership is 1% of the population. The 3 Class C raid guilds combined are about 5% of the population. The Class R guilds are like 14% of the population.

You can disagree, but you're wrong.

[Lisset]

Bump - every poster against it so far is a soloer/duoer or OT hammer seller with selfish motives

I'm neither a soloer nor do I duo. I don't have the items in question nor do have I used any.

That said, I think the suggested changes (nerfing recharging and spell-duck interrupting) are bad ideas and would oppose them. I also oppose the staring at books while medding. I remember it well and it sucked back then and it would suck even more now.

We all know that "is it classic" is nothing more than a bullshit excuse. P99 is classic-like but it's not classic for numerous reasons, not the least of which being YEARS since Kunark which dramatically changes the end-game experience.

You weenies shouting the classic mantra seriously need to find something better to do. Stop picking and choosing what you want to be classic and what you don't. P99 can't ever be fully classic. Period. And you know it. It was a different time on different hardware with different infrastructure and running on a different operating system (Win98 or Win95).

You know what also was classic? 2 boats through OOT. Also the direction of the boats in OOT is INTENTIONALLY BACKWARD from classic. Any Dev daring to say "well, we're making the change because it was on classic) needs to make sure the boats go in the backwards direction that they were on live.

You know what else? The falling damage on P99 is crap. Live was littered with corpses under Kelethin. Now you can fall off the city and often won't take any damage at all, let alone enough to kill you. You can't get more classic than that. I used to hear the crunch crunch crunch sound going downhill in NRO when I had sow. Where's that? It was classic too. Why aren't the neckbeards screaming about that?

My point in bringing up these things is not to bitch about them in hopes that they'll be changed. I'm ok with them the way they are. They were classic but oh well. It's not worth whining about - just like the things the OP is complaining about.

And let's get real. This is nothing more than a red player trying to screw with an experience that they don't even participate in.

[Fame]

TL;DR

RED blue

[Tecmos Deception]

IBs total membership is 1% of the population. The 3 Class C raid guilds combined are about 5% of the population. The Class R guilds are like 14% of the population.

You can disagree, but you're wrong.

This. Any leveling group you're in? I'd be surprised if even one them has a hat on them. Most 60s usually do but only because their leaders tell them to for raids... 50/50 chance it isn't even charged. You'd think of any guild, a-team would be whoring the the clickies left and right, right? I give away a charged mallet at every single raid tecmos attends because it's rare we have more than 1 tank with a charged one!

Liia soloing dartain, sakuragi soloing rokyl, svenn and Maurice soloing every mob on the server? Yeah, they often use clickies. But go read maurices kills. He did stuff like the sham epic dude in com solo without clickies. Raid guilds only use big-time clickies in extreme situations, they aren't out there soloing trak with a few monks loaded with soulfires and bladestoppers and shit.

This whole "recharging is ruining pve challenge" is just red troll anyways... hence nilbog moving this thread here from the bug forums.

[NextGenesis88]

I'm neither a soloer nor do I duo. I don't have the items in question nor do have I used any.

That said, I think the suggested changes (nerfing recharging and spell-duck interrupting) are bad ideas and would oppose them. I also oppose the staring at books while medding. I remember it well and it sucked back then and it would suck even more now.

We all know that "is it classic" is nothing more than a bullshit excuse. P99 is classic-like but it's not classic for numerous reasons, not the least of which being YEARS since Kunark which dramatically changes the end-game experience.

You weenies shouting the classic mantra seriously need to find something better to do. Stop picking and choosing what you want to be classic and what you don't. P99 can't ever be fully classic. Period. And you know it. It was a different time on different hardware with different infrastructure and running on a different operating system (Win98 or Win95).

You know what also was classic? 2 boats through OOT. Also the direction of the boats in OOT is INTENTIONALLY BACKWARD from classic. Any Dev daring to say "well, we're making the change because it was on classic) needs to make sure the boats go in the backwards direction that they were on live.

You know what else? The falling damage on P99 is crap. Live was littered with corpses under Kelethin. Now you can fall off the city and often won't take any damage at all, let alone enough to kill you. You can't get more classic than that. I used to hear the crunch crunch crunch sound going downhill in NRO when I had sow. Where's that? It was classic too. Why aren't the neckbeards screaming about that?

My point in bringing up these things is not to bitch about them in hopes that they'll be changed. I'm ok with them the way they are. They were classic but oh well. It's not worth whining about - just like the things the OP is complaining about.

And let's get real. This is nothing more than a red player trying to screw with an experience that they don't even participate in.

Running the FPS super high changes the falling and jumping mechanics. 30 FPS and everything is normal. I usually go 40-60 to be in the ballpark of classic. Over 60 is just not needed although you can actually see it run smoother.

[Wrench]

Am I missing something about duck ... can't you get the exact same effect by jumping? Now granted you can't jump while levitating, but otherwise it doesn't seem like a duck nerf would be a big deal.

jumping does not cancel either, go roll a lvl 1 on red if curious

[loramin]

Ah, so it would be a duck/jump nerf then (because I'm almost certain jumping interrupts on Blue).

[Whiteberry]

Ah, so it would be a duck/jump nerf then (because I'm almost certain jumping interrupts on Blue).

indeed it does ether that or clicking your spell book

[jaybone]

Somebody get Tecmos a god damn tissue holy fucking shit.

[SamwiseRed]

recharging and mqing epics are classic BUGS not classic mechanics. neither are in the spirit of classic everquest nor are part of the "vision."

[Byrjun]

People want plat sinks.

People don't want recharging.

Make up your minds!

[Swish]

People want plat sinks.

People don't want recharging.

Make up your minds!

Plat sinks for some... recharging for others!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9xjyfrt4E1rq4no1o6_250.gif

( http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma0sioGZyE1rq4no1o3_r1_250.gif )

[Teako]

People seldom realize the true 'classic' mechanics that we need before useless frivolities are removed... Mostly circulating around pets.

There's been a tremendous amount of research done and provided that shows Mage pets should be generating 5-10x the threat they currently are.. Also that the health values are off. Not to mention the 50% exp penalty.. Or the fact that according to classic timeline pets should be able to dual wield weighted axes for 50/20 delay before haste.. Because pets were attack speed capped at 20, but damage modifiers would apply via weapons.

So.. You want classic? You want a Mage epic pet dual wielding 2 50/10 (hasted) weighted axes, quadding for 150+ a swing? Oh no, you don't want that. Mages would be OP. Oh wait, classic.

Or how about the fact that AC value does not apply correctly? Or generally at all before level 40? That's right, sparky. Your full cobalt level 1 warrior takes the exact same damage as a warrior butt naked at his level.

We could always mention that 2handed damage bonus (confirmed classic, confirmed should be in game according to timeline) is not applied to any weapon at all. 29/30 T-Staff at 60 should be roughly 45-30 baseline after damage bonus.. Yet isn't anywhere close. Gets a larger strength modifier sure... But should definitely be hitting consistently harder than it should be.. with evidence provided to back it up.

How about classic ZEMs? Kedge should be something around a 600% ZEM.. Which was classic.. yet was nerfed big time due to it being too much.

How about classic spell book meditating? There's another thread trying to bandaid fix some abominations involving full screen blindness, in addition to other non-classic crap.

If you want 'pure classic' - I 100% support it, and your ability to have it... However, in the progressive steps to reach 'classic' there's many, many more steps more important than recharging items, and ducking spells.

(Seldom known fact, there's actually always been a key bind assignable for "stop spell casting" under keyboard.. and yes, it works.)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Strays/stopcasting.jpg


Edit: Not to mention the fact that Monk epic does not display at all to anyone except yourself.. Which imo is a pretty colossal bug. One classes culminated epic does not show it's particle effect.. which is supposed to make them stand out, and unique.

[Thugicorn]

People seldom realize the true 'classic' mechanics that we need before useless frivolities are removed... Mostly circulating around pets.

There's been a tremendous amount of research done and provided that shows Mage pets should be generating 5-10x the threat they currently are.. Also that the health values are off. Not to mention the 50% exp penalty.. Or the fact that according to classic timeline pets should be able to dual wield weighted axes for 50/20 delay before haste.. Because pets were attack speed capped at 20, but damage modifiers would apply via weapons.

So.. You want classic? You want a Mage epic pet dual wielding 2 50/10 (hasted) weighted axes, quadding for 150+ a swing? Oh no, you don't want that. Mages would be OP. Oh wait, classic.

Or how about the fact that AC value does not apply correctly? Or generally at all before level 40? That's right, sparky. Your full cobalt level 1 warrior takes the exact same damage as a warrior butt naked at his level.

We could always mention that 2handed damage bonus (confirmed classic, confirmed should be in game according to timeline) is not applied to any weapon at all. 29/30 T-Staff at 60 should be roughly 45-30 baseline after damage bonus.. Yet isn't anywhere close. Gets a larger strength modifier sure... But should definitely be hitting consistently harder than it should be.. with evidence provided to back it up.

How about classic ZEMs? Kedge should be something around a 600% ZEM.. Which was classic.. yet was nerfed big time due to it being too much.

How about classic spell book meditating? There's another thread trying to bandaid fix some abominations involving full screen blindness, in addition to other non-classic crap.

If you want 'pure classic' - I 100% support it, and your ability to have it... However, in the progressive steps to reach 'classic' there's many, many more steps more important than recharging items, and ducking spells.

(Seldom known fact, there's actually always been a key bind assignable for "stop spell casting" under keyboard.. and yes, it works.)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Strays/stopcasting.jpg


Edit: Not to mention the fact that Monk epic does not display at all to anyone except yourself.. Which imo is a pretty colossal bug. One classes culminated epic does not show it's particle effect.. which is supposed to make them stand out, and unique.

I'm so turned on right now.

[Nirgon]

Duck casting needs to go bye byes.

Same w/ recharging BUG.

[bomaroast]

Remove duck casting and I'll stop playing all my casters and most likely the server. That's not a threat, cause I know none of you care. But fuck that.... a form of interrupting spells needs to be in the game. It is why it was added later. Much like the removal of xp penalties, MQ fixes, etc.... The original and each expansion should be released with ALL fixes and updates for that expansion applied at release time.

When was duck casting added to live?

edit: holy crap a few posts up.. You win eq for the day.

[Wrench]

recharging and mqing epics are classic BUGS not classic mechanics. neither are in the spirit of classic everquest nor are part of the "vision."

bs

there are tons of classic bugs that do not benefit the players which nilbog leaves in 'because its classic'

stop the cherry picking crap, its either all or none

[Wrench]

Same w/ recharging BUG.

expected more from you

[Juhstin]

It'll never happen, dunno why everyone QQing

[Nirgon]

expected more from you

It's a BUG.

The mana stone dropping or being usable in planes wasn't a BUG.

U get my feels here man? There wasn't ONE guild on live raiding with 10+ midnight mallets on the reg that were recharged after.

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/s403x403/1654350_10151875041281621_1950477480_n.jpg

[Dreadwynn]

Teako so knowledgeable! Impressive sir, impressive.

[Wrench]

It's a BUG.

The mana stone dropping or being usable in planes wasn't a BUG.

U get my feels here man? There wasn't ONE guild on live raiding with 10+ midnight mallets on the read that were recharged after.[/IMG]

classic is classic because its classic

not because you think the intent was different, not because you didnt see people do it

want a custom server thats 'classic but fixed'? im not against the idea, but lets be real and upfront about it

[Nirgon]

(Seldom known fact, there's actually always been a key bind assignable for "stop spell casting" under keyboard.. and yes, it works.)


Doesn't work on red.

Neither does duck casting.

:/

Shit's classic there.

Being real upfront with bugs discovered later that were quickly fixed that ruined the game. People recharging 20 midnight mallets for raiding doesn't recreate the classic experience you think it does.

And 'm out dis bitch.

[Lojik]

Doesn't work on red.

Neither does duck casting.

:/

Shit's classic there.

Being real upfront with bugs discovered later that were quickly fixed that ruined the game. People recharging 20 midnight mallets for raiding doesn't recreate the classic experience you think it does.

And 'm out dis bitch.

Can't one say that not being able to interrupt your own spellcast is a BUG?

[Wrench]

dont bother lojik

used to think that guy was like ele, and really just cared about classic

didnt always agree with it, but admired it

now i see he just likes to troll people with this stuff

[Fame]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u58/kleenex.jpg

[pasi]

Recharging is a classic mechanics versus classic feel argument. Mechanically, we are correct for the lifespan of Project 1999 - there is no room for disagreement there (for recharging). The question is which side to go with.

Personally, I tend to prefer sticking to classic mechanics over classic feel unless gameplay is significantly altered.

Is gameplay significantly altered?

Not really. For me, significantly altered would be things such as launching Velious with classic Wavecrasher or Donal's BP. It would be something like having classic pet aggro and spamming every mob from Nagafen to Avatar of War with pet chains. You know - something that fundamentally changes how the game is played at the raid level.

Mallets are by far the most impactful item on blue. You could go as far as to argue that mallets do fundamentally change how the game plays. The issue with mallets is the same issue with Ivandyr Hoops. That is, a recharging nerf would not stop their mass use. It would be far more beneficial to individually nerf the sole offender in this case if mallet use was deemed wrong.

I went into detail on other individual items on a previous post on this thread. For the blue server, recharging doesn't significantly alter gameplay as it would on red.

Recharging mallets on red would be insignificant compared to everyone having WC caps and golem wands. Fitting enough, this entire thread is Red folk pushing for change on blue without realizing the reason there is a difference between the servers (for recharging, ducking is another issue).

I know I'm a soloer or whatever, but I don't exactly have a horse in this race. I don't have anything good to recharge and my WC is usually uncharged. Furthermore, I only play 2 or 3 hours a month.

[Mac Dretti]

Just because something was a bug in classic doesn't mean it should be a bug here for classics sake.

Red has caught up with the times to be slightly less classic with the goal of asking what do we think the devs at the time would have done given the knowledge base we have now. There is no need to wait until something that happens 2 years later in the timeline to nerf something just because it took that long for eq live to figure it out if it's an exploitative mechanic that everyone is aware of. Knowledge sharing in 1999-2001 wasn't what it is now. We have the power of reading "future" patch notes to do things before they happen.

Example: soulfires being click able by paladins only - this was changed after test of tactics because the live EQ team saw how dumb click fest was.

Recharging is a BUG like Nirgon said. Just because it wasn't caught or patched top priority on live doesn't take away from the fact that it was a bug and semi exploit.

[Took]

Gonna have to agree, at this point the servers should mirror each other. Recharging items is an incredibly huge advantage to have on a PvE server.

Also I would argue people are more inclined to play a server that has features such as duck casting and item recharging over a server that does not.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

dont bother lojik

used to think that guy was like ele, and really just cared about classic

didnt always agree with it, but admired it

now i see he just likes to troll people with this stuff

Sometimes they contribute sometimes they don't. The reality of it is though, they capture and argue for a ton of changes and represent a valid viewpoint on the spectrum.

I myself play here because this was my favorite era. This is when I started the game and when I feel it it was at its best - current emulation be damned. So on the one hand I enjoyed the game for what it was but was frustrated at the time due to silly limitations (spell book medding, cast from sit etc...). I did play all the way till Ldon so I also go to enjoy some of the newer features that may be used only because of Titanium client.

I guess the point I'm making here is that without the die hards (trolly as they may be) this wouldn't even be close to classic and although I enjoy the perks of game as it is, I do understand that the only reason some things might be kept around is because of some large game-breaking exploit or cruel visual limitation that's easily removed or modded around. Non classic items should be brought as close as classic as possible in order to keep in tune with the projects goal.

Recharging: is it classic? Yes. Keep it in? No on red because of serious pvp exploitation issues. Yes on blue because it does not make you invincible nor does it allow you to kill the hardest encounters which can be done with a group anyways.

Duck cast cancellation: I grit my teeth because I would hate it (and did in the brief time I played on red) but it's classic. Put it in.

TL;DR: "classic or die" is on one end of the spectrum, "idgaf" is on the other. Where you sit is up to you and what stays on the server is up to the devs. There should be criteria and this is what I think it should be.

Also, trolls gonna troll.

[Iumuno]

Recharging is a classic mechanics versus classic feel argument. Mechanically, we are correct for the lifespan of Project 1999 - there is no room for disagreement there (for recharging). The question is which side to go with.

Personally, I tend to prefer sticking to classic mechanics over classic feel unless gameplay is significantly altered.

Is gameplay significantly altered?



And that's the crux of the issue. It extends beyond the 2 topics being "discussed" here though.

[Nirgon]

Can't one say that not being able to interrupt your own spellcast is a BUG?

No

[Handull]

Correct me i'm wrong, but wasn't soulfire usable by anyone from inventory at this time in the live timeline?

It was nerfed much sooner here because it allowed content to be trivialized. You want 5 instant CH's for raids? Add Paladins to your guild.

Same should be done with recharging.

You want the luxury of WC Gate hats? Go on the Journey and quest it. You want mallets for raids? Go turn in rubies. You want allure wands? Go raid planes. You want OT hammer? Do the faction quest/farm sarnaks. You want root nets? Go to permafrost and camp them.

Wait until velious when a guild wipes in sleeper/TOV and they have their monk using rechargable rez sticks to get the entire guild back up and going in 2.5 minutes. It's going to be a joke and any guild waiting to move in is going to be screwed because they will never be able to move in after Guild A wipes.

lol. personally i'd rather go turn in rubies and vendor the axes. this item will always be easy to get with recharging or not, don't see why people like you keep harming on it.

and have you tried to recharge a vox rez stick on blue? it doesn't happen, the buyback is ~2million plat.

[baalzy]

I've got an idea.

Red people stay out of blue forums. Blue people stay out of red forums.

Purples, just stick to whats relevant to your forum.

[gwideon]

I would like full health and full mana on a ding; that too was was classic.

[Daldaen]

Not classic. I fondly remember when my paladin dinged 9 in Blackburrow seeing my mana slowly tick up from 0.

[gwideon]

Full mana and hp on a ding was the way it worked when I started during Kunark era in 2000 (current timeline). I remember having multiples while soloing and praying for the ding so I didn't die while in LOIO.

[Mac Dretti]

lol. personally i'd rather go turn in rubies and vendor the axes. this item will always be easy to get with recharging or not, don't see why people like you keep harming on it.

and have you tried to recharge a vox rez stick on blue? it doesn't happen, the buyback is ~2million plat.

Stop trolling and stop telling people they aren't allowed to post in server chat.

[McnealJ]

Lol why so many red tears in this thread you guys are embarrassing me in front of the bluebies

[Cookiefist]

I think red just wants to make us blue people hard like they are.

[Nirgon]

Full mana and hp on a ding was the way it worked when I started during Kunark era in 2000 (current timeline). I remember having multiples while soloing and praying for the ding so I didn't die while in LOIO.

Make a bug post for it. Would love to see it. Many victories over a triple fire beetle pull because of a ding.

[Mac Dretti]

Make a bug post for it. Would love to see it. Many victories over a triple fire beetle pull because of a ding.

Yah I remember getting out of my chair praying that the one mob in the pack dies b4 I do so my refresh will secure the victory against the rest

[Xelris]

As someone who constantly uses a gate cap to get out of shitty situations in Seb and abuses the crap out of wooly spider nets, I'd say get rid of item recharging on the simple basis that it hurts the alchemy tradeskill.

I lived without it on Live (as most people did... comparatively few people knew about this exploit and those that did kept it under wraps for obvious reasons), I can live without it here. Larrikan's masks aren't that hard to come by.

[Hollywood]

Oh and SoulFire... Please make that Paladin only clickable. People buying MQs for non paladin is so unclassic it's stupid.

For a server that makes a big deal about what conveniences it allows despite being not classic, the fact that MQ allowed is strikingly bad.

Did they not stop and think how negative MQ was in the past, and how even worse it would be here?


MQ and recharge is not kept in because it's 'classic,' it's kept in because it caters to the wants and needs of the top voices on the server, which just happen to be the greedy exploiters and guilds.

[Fame]

http://i.imgur.com/meoMX.gif