A wall of text on the global XP modifier, global OOC

[Derubael]

Since some of you are freaking out, I thought I'd take a moment to wall-of-text all you pals on the thinking behind this. Keep in mind that none of this is set in stone, and that these statements, while supported by some of the other staff members, are my personal views on the subject and should be taken as such until someone else on the staff gives a +1 in this thread.

Lets start with the easy one:

Global OOC:

There are a number of positives to global OOC. Especially on a low population server, global ooc provides much needed communication between the handful of people playing on the box. People need a way to publicly auction, find groups, and talk to each other without having to resort to the forums or tells.

The negatives far outweigh the positives. I can say from personal experience and talking with a vast number of new players on the server (read: not all of you that have been here for 2 years) that the stuff that goes on in global ooc drives people away. Bottom line here is that not everyone wants to hear 'pras' everytime a nihilum member goes down, or listen to someone rage out because they got killed by a gank squad. Even worse, global OOC often devolves into a shitfest of 'you mad' 'get fucked faggot' and 'kill yourself irl' spam. It presents, up front, immediately, and in no uncertain terms, a false image of the community on Red 1999. While there are certainly some toxic assholes that play here, the majority of this community is helpful, friendly, and supportive of new players. Those of you who want to talk about your drug addictions, playerX's mom's basement, or scrubX's inability to pvp are in the minority. Saying that people can simply /ignore the people they don't like is not a feasible reason to keep global OOC in its current form. The default should be to not have to see that, not the other way around.

There has to be, and there are, alternatives to global OOC. 5 minute timers, limiting what zones OOC can be seen/used, level limits, and chat channels (though I think Nilbog is very much against this) are all workable solutions to the problem. There needs to be a form of global communication, but a default-on, say anything you want, anywhere you want, whenever you want system is not, and has not, been working.

High XP Modifier:

So this is the fun one. I'll start with a long list of positives, though this is subjective because XP and grinding can be viewed as good or bad, depending on how you look at them.

A high XP modifier makes it easier to level. Particularly on a low population box where finding groups can be hard, the ability to solo quickly can be invaluable in getting someone to the high end. Getting to 60 faster means quicker raiding, more high end PvP, and lots of people in that level range to PvP with. On a PvP box, it also means less of the 'boring parts' of EQ, like grinding mobs. You get to spend less time killing mobs, more time PvPing (at the high end) and the time you do spend seems 'better spent' because you progress more quickly. Last, and in my opinion least important, turning on an XP modifier brings new people in. Wait, why is that least important?

Large global XP modifiers are a short term solution. Typically in the past, when we've turned UP the global xp modifier on red, a population spike has occurred, sometimes adding 50 people or more to the server. These people are attracted by the prospect of big gains in a short period of time. Once the XP modifier goes off, generally the population goes back down, as people are no longer interested in the slow progression with difficult to find groups.

'Derubael,' you say, 'Are you being intentionally fucking stupid? Clearly once the XP bonus goes off, people leave, so wtf are you going on about? XP bonus needs to stay in forever so we can get YT and have dragon paxels for the scrublets.'

That'd be fantastic if it were true, but unfortunately, it's not. Last time we turned up the XP modifier on red, there was an enormous population spike. XP on red went from being a scalable bonus from 1-60, to having the scalable bonus AND a 2.0 modifier. Suddenly, people were gaining levels faster than they could get the money to buy their spells, pixels were raining from the sky, and scrub on scrub YT was through the roof. Perfect. That proves the theory that high XP modifier = people.

Except it doesn't, because we left the XP bonus on, and guess what? The overwhelming majority left the server within a month. It didn't take long for the population to once again sink back into the sub-100 level. Ignoring 'server toxic' as a reason why someone would leave, after talking with a large number of people who left the server we can conclude there are a couple reasons for this:

People hit the max level range too quickly (52-60). Someone who rockets their way to 52 and only has a few PvP fights along the way suddenly being roflstomped by a level 60 who's entire life goal is to kill people in everquest is not a good thing. Some will say that it's a good lesson in how to PvP, but I'd strongly disagree. It's like flying a model airplane a couple times, and then being thrown into the cockpit of a 747 and being told 'hey, its np, you'll figure it out. sucker.' Fortunately on this server we have some experienced pilots who take these people under their wings and teach them the basics, but I'd argue these are fundamental skills and knowledge that should be learned long before someone reaches the train pain that is 52-60.

Furthermore, hitting the max level range too quickly kills one of the things that makes EQ PvP so great. What was your first experience with PvP in EQ? Fighting some elven scum in Crushbone with a group of scrubs you just met? Running into a_random_druid001 in the karanas and being unsure of weather or not he was going to kite your ass to death while you tried to kill aviaks? Finding a twink destroying everyone in unrest, and banding together with your fellows nublets to take down this fungus covered monster?

These are the experiences that form bonds and keep players coming back for more, and having a ridiculous XP modifier essentially nullifies their presence on Red 99. Being thrown immediately into the teamspeak/vent-srs-fckin-bsns-and-dont-u-fcking-dare-fckup-or-we'll-fck-your-life-and-everyone-will-shame-you-forever trakanonspawn pvp 2 weeks into rolling on the server does not retain players. While this is definitely fun, I imagine the people who really want to be in that environment on this server are already in it. Not only that, but the people who DO want to be in that environment will be playing on the server longer, simply because it will take longer for them to get there.

With the XP modifier so high, people are unable to form strong bonds to their compatriots, or fierce rivalries with their competitors. These are what keep people playing on the server, not YT, ridiculous OOC messages, or paxels. 'BUT THERE ARE NO GROUPS ON RED 99!' I hear you say, in an austrian accent, because in my head you sound like Arnold Schwarzenager, 'With that rock'em sock'em XP pack, the server will prosper!'

You're right, there are no groups on Red 99 when leveling up. Why would there be? Everyone hits 52 in less than a month, and the ones who don't are the melees who are stuck solo'ing light blues. There is 0 reason to group if you're a class who can even remotely solo, and if you are a class that can solo, you're going to hit 52 in no time. Why would you group with lowbiewarrior001 when he's just going to slow you down? You won't, because the XP bonus is so high you can just go solo pretty much anywhere and level up with no issue. There's no reason to group in a dungeon with an XP modifier, because who cares? There's no reason to form a group and take risks. And if you DO decide to group with lowbiewarrior001, if you play a few hours a day more than the next guy, you're going to outlevel him in less than a week and no longer be able to group. He'd better play at your neckbeard level or gtfo, because once you're past him he can kiss his XP goodbye.

By the time they hit the max level range, they have 0 attachment to their character, 0 attachment to this server, and 0 attachment to any other player. There are some who find one or more of these things along the way, but they are clearly few and far between. Even those who do find something max out with ease, get into red dawn/azrael -> get cockblocked by nihilum, or get into nihilum - > farm pixels uncontested with no pvp, or they do their own thing (get pvp'd by everyone) and then they quit because that's all fucking stupid, and with minimal attachment/effort in their character, why stay? There is no journey, there are no upper guk dungeon crawls constantly looking over your shoulder to see if that lvl 22 is going to gank your group, there are no lvl 17's battling in oasis, there isn't a rivalry that spans 40+ levels and countless hours between someone who got you at 5% when you had ALMOST killed that rare spawn. It destroys everything EQ PvP is supposed to be about and replaces it wiith lvl 60 callofdutyquest.

The XP modifier was a short term solution that caused a long term problem. For anyone taking a close look at the reasons why new people quit, this is glaringly obvious. The number of people who bail prior to 52 greatly outweighs the number of people who bail post 52, and even that number is pretty high. The things that make your average EQ player (read: not you vztz kids) stick around on a server (and hence, give you vztz kids people to kill) are completely eliminated with a high XP bonus.

So wtf does this essay mean?

XP on red definitely needs to be increased compared to blue. There's no question about that. But the modifier needs to be extensively changed from the way it is now. At most, the scaling XP bonus should be the only global modifier present. To supplement that, there should be a group XP modifier that would stack on top. This would slow leveling down as a whole (the goal of taking out global xp, yes, this is a good thing) and encourage grouping, even for solo classes. A group XP bonus is far preferable to a global modifier.

I'm not stupid. I know that initially this would hurt the population. Clearly some of you would leave (because you can't level your 5th alt fast enough, or something, because you're all 60 anyway), and others would quit when the forums/in-game chat exploded with 'BOX IS DYING, GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!!' Some people who came here from blue because of how easy it is to solo would also /q and never return. But then when new players were actually able to find people to group with, and stay with those people, leveling, battling and dying together, the population would slowly start to increase. These people will be far more invested in their characters by level 30 than they would be now at level 60, and their experiences will keep them playing on the server. This would be a cumulative snowball effect on the population that has long lasting positive implications on the success of the server as a whole, as opposed to the 'hotfix' of a massive xp bonus like we have now.

It's got to get worse before it gets better, but make no mistake, this is something that is absolutely needed here on Red 99.

tl;dr? there isn't one. if you didnt read this then go cry in rnf about how we're killing the server while you shit up the forums on a daily basis. i'm sure your tears are encouraging people to roll here.

<3,
deru

inb4 staff dumb, killing the box, NIHILUMRAWRGH, etc
and
retti_tldr.gif

[Agatha]

I have thoroughly read everything you have posted and I agree with you on all positions.

+1 post, well though out, good to see our server GM's taking a proactive stance on server issues like these.

[Swish]

I should say that the devs/CSR's have had a hand in decimating the population on at least 2 occasions where its gone over 200-250 per night.

1. After one patch last year, the XP bonus was turned off fully (supposedly by accident etc)...so there was a blue server XP rate. The population nosedived (and cue people logging on, saying "XP bonus back on yet?" someone saying "no", and them logging out)

2. After the server recovered from that and saw 200ish per night again, the PvP teams server was announced (and has since been buried to "after Velious"). Nosedive again due to the thought of the box dying to PvP teams.

We've had a growing population before, maybe some of the things in Derubael's post would make a difference... I'd give them a try, but lets be careful about what's implemented and take on board what new players might want, rather than forcing a prescription on the box that'll see it stay under 100 per night.

[quido]

shrink pvp level range imo

+/- 4

[runlvlzero]

Amen and pras derubal, for president, I would let you be the first to use my vagina if it ever happens.

[runlvlzero]

shrink pvp level range imo

+/- 4

Also that + the slow xp so people can fuckin learn to play this game rather than max it out and burn out.

[Agatha]

Amen and pras derubal, for president, I would let you be the first to use my vagina if it ever happens.

do u really have a vagina, i kinda felt when we where leveling deep in those goblin basements we had some kind of bro thing going on.

but now it seems like much much more.

[runlvlzero]

do u really have a vagina, i kinda felt when we where leveling deep in those goblin basements we had some kind of bro thing going on.

but now it seems like much much more.

if it ever happens.
if it ever happens.
if it ever happens.
if it ever happens.
if it ever happens.

fml... but yes, Agatha, I have a bit of a crush for u as a person.

[Agatha]

Ha..ha..have you seen my dick pics yet?

[runlvlzero]

Ha..ha..have you seen my dick pics yet?

Naw, I bet it's cute tho :P

[Potus]

Question for OP:

Have you ever considered actually moderating OOC? Like, handing out suspensions and bans to people who keep calling each other the n-word and saying horrendously homophobic remarks?

I agree it's bad and it drives players away. It's nothing new to the genre, however, and the solution is actually punishing people and encouraging players to report verbal abuse.

[Gaffin 7.0]

shrink pvp level range imo

+/- 4

this

[Faerie]

Merge blue and red together, keeping red server PvP rules and blue server chat/exp rules. Maybe change pvp range to 4 levels. Any other changes will be negligible in comparison, and likely negligible in actuality.

It's a sad truth.

[Fame]

Did not read, goin with gut instinct and doom n' gloom hysteria, FUCKING STUPID TO TAKE OUT OOC BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARE PUSSY CRYBABY FAGGOTTS, die.

[Fame]

<3 Deru, never forget EC

http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/img/lady_liberty_towers.jpg

[oil]

group xp modifier is an excellent idea in lou of the current one

would love to be a part of that experiment

edit: altho losing ooc would make a little more difficult to coordinate

[Fame]

Read some of it, simple solution without goin Stalin on us: create optional NSFW global chat channel and let freedom ring, leave ooc for the fagots and people who should die

[Iandyan]

Awesome to see ideas being kicked around!

Incentives to group vs. solo are a great idea.

I'll personally miss the OOC if that goes through but understand why there are people who aren't amused by it.

Any thoughts of having a guide monitor the ooc instead of getting rid of it (at least during prime time)? I would suggest an global LFG and Auction channel but I think that would be equally abused by people saying the same things just in a different channel.

[oil]

they already log it. know a few people been banned/suspended for violating pnp with their ooc chat as a major piece of evidence... especially at pnp inception

but if you're suggesting policing ooc to the point of stopping any racism or extreme comments that's way more work for the staff that takes away from gameplay issues

plus how to justify punishing people for extremely offensive comments when more than half the server has that kind of offense on record?

removing ooc is the right thing to do. New players should join guilds to fill the silence



sent from my toilet

[Mac Dretti]

<3,
deru


retti_tldr.gif

http://img.pandawhale.com/97507-TLDR-TL-DR-gif-too-long-didnt-kvgd.gif

[Cid]

I absolutely agree with the global ooc part. Some kind of global chat is needed for communication. I don't really ever speak in ooc but I do usually find people needing help in ooc and something that facilitates the helper and helpee communication is definitely needed.

I believe an emphasis on grouping through xp bonuses will eventually have a positive effect on the population, but the initial response is likely going to be bad. Snare kiting by necros and druids has essentially been removed, as has sow kiting by shamans. Pets now steal like 75% of the xp unless you do 51% dmg to the mob or disperse it.
Solo oriented classes have been targetted multiple times already in the interest of promoting grouping but honestly have done little to nothing beyond causing re-rolls.

The majority of people who intend to seriously play on an emulated pvp server on a 14 year old MMO are unlikely to be easy-going and friendly people looking for comraderie over violence. We're agoraphobes, shut-ins, and basement dwellers wearing a dirty tanktop and shorts. (I know bro, in RL you're ripped 'cause you lift and have a supermodel girlfriend you didn't inflate and could totally kick my ass!)

I do not mean to bash your ideas, and I apologize if my statements are misconstrued, only to implore you to take action purely from the standpoint of promoting grouping. Soloing isn't bad, it is an integral part of the game. It would be best to just leave any mention of soloing out of the plans. Ooc has repeatedly proven that Red's populace is not exactly the calmest and most reasonable of people.

I've helped hundreds of new players in the last two years and given away tens if not hundreds of thousands of pp in items, spells and coins without accepting any payment and asking only that each person in turn help out a new player when they have a chance to down the road.
I am not saying this for praise or to start a dick measuring contest over who has helped/given the most. I am the antithesis of pvp, but I like and care about the server and many people on it.
Personal responsibility on an individual level is a great way to fundamentally change the Red server. Inspire by example. Put the good of the server and the good of others ahead of your own desires half the time, or at least a third of the time.

If you let go of greed and ego for just a little while I promise you that you will be amazed at how much more satisfying it is to help a person get up on their feet than it is to knock them down.

[dreama1]

As a new player who started playing again recently, I think that the xp bonus, if it were to go away, would be devastating.

A) this is not a teams or pve server, groups shouldn't be the norm. Until you find a guild / group of friends, you shouldn't expect to get a group, especially when the population of new people is so low.

B) by decreasing the xp bonus, you will just increase the number of people who twink and instead of having lvl 60s griefing lvl 52s, you will have griefers in much lower level ranges. That solves absolutely nothing.

C) If someone only plays casually versus someone playing hardcore, naturally the hardcore player is going to out level them on any server. Not sure if srs or ..

D) Instead of people leveling quickly, you're just going to have people stay low levels forever, see no groups or pvp & quit.

The server is top heavy. #sorryboutit

http://25.media.tumblr.com/7a9dc5e9fb67d5a307298ce207c8b94d/tumblr_mm9ru4Zmsx1qins52o1_400.gif

[Telin]

Ideas that could promote grouping and not hurt soloing as much:

1) 20% Global XP Bonus

2) Group XP Bonus
1 member - 100% / 1 = 100%
2 members - 120% / 2 = 60%
3 members - 140% / 3 = 46.7%
4 members - 160% / 4 = 40%
5 members - 180% / 5 = 36%
6 members - 200% / 6 = 33.3%

3) Modify the level ranges that can group and still get experience.

Lowest level in group X 2.0 = Max level of a group member where the lowest level member can get experience.

[Potus]

Can't wait for people to group with people out of zone for the bonus and then go back to solo'ing.

Until you draw in tons of people there won't be grouping. Group exp bonus could be like 900% and it still won't work because there isn't anyone to group with.

And how will you find people to group with if there is no global chat?

[Kergan]

Doing a group only exp is counter intuitive to what you're trying to accomplish. The only people who will able to reliably get groups are people with a pool of friends already on the server. New players without a pre-established group will be the ones most negatively effected by this change which would be done under the guise of encourage new players to stay.

Even with double the exp rate we have now it would still take a new player a good month to hit 60 playing a lot. If you haven't become attached by that point you aren't going to be.

[Heywood]

And how will you find people to group with if there is no global chat?

Let's not kid ourselves, most new people can't groups even with ooc. The population isn't big enough to sustain groups at all levels. Post-40, you're pretty much leveling with your guild whether, it be Red Dawn or Nihilum.


OOC is primarily used for shit-talking, then for the occasional trade, and once in a blue moon you find a group.



But people who say ooc is toxic do not have the capacity to comprehend that ooc and xp bonus are the only things that make r99 remotely playable. EQ is first and foremost a social game, Brad said so himself. With the little/dwindling population that r99 has, why would you even think of taking that away?

[Giovanni]

Suggested Revamp of Low Level Experience

Implement a teams based model up to level 46. This will not affect the high end game at all.

Provide an experience bonus for grouping with your team members and eliminate hybrid exp penalties.

Limit /ooc to your team members until lvl 46.

Do not change the overall experience rate. Both myself and Xantille have been playing since day 1. We have never hit 60 on a character.

While I look forward to the day when we can pvp on a relatively even playing field against the Nihilum no lifers, I would consider staying at a lower level just to enjoy a teams environment.

[Kazi]

If you're dumping global ooc, might as well dump the pvp forums as well. Probably turns away more people than ooc

[Giovanni]

Exp rate being too fast isn't what turns people off from the server.

Finally making it to the raid game and then realizing that there is no way to compete against the unemployed killing every raid mob on the server within a 3 hour window between 8am-11am on a Thursday so they can RMT the loots back to you while Maximillian posts your cellphone number to the M4MMMM section on Craiglist is what kills the server.

[Bazia]

Reduce the exp bonus and remove/limit global ooc to increase population?

OP is flat out one of the stupidest staff member posts I have ever seen.

[Bazia]

He must have not been around before global ooc when the server was 23 people

[Derubael]

It's got to get worse before it gets better, but make no mistake, this is something that is absolutely needed here on Red 99.

If someone has input on why a high xp modifier is a good thing for long term population sustainability, I am all ears.

[Nocsucow]

i think 100% of everything you said is right on target... but it still dont get rid of the type of people who could ruin any community

[SamwiseRed]

I guess for one, leveling new alts is the only fun thing to do if you are casual. There is no competiting against an endless army of neckbeards so end game for some of us is to get to 50+ then do it all over again :)

[Bazia]

before exp bonus pop was 20 people.

That's why you keep exp bonus

before global ooc pop was 20 people

That's why you keep global ooc

I really can't make this clearer for you

[Etorryn]

Exp rate being too fast isn't what turns people off from the server.

Finally making it to the raid game and then realizing that there is no way to compete against the unemployed killing every raid mob on the server within a 3 hour window between 8am-11am on a Thursday so they can RMT the loots back to you while Maximillian posts your cellphone number to the M4MMMM section on Craiglist is what kills the server.

Pretty much sums it up

[Kazi]

Xp bonus brings people over. Should do more to keep them. Group xp is an awesome idea but shouldn't replace solo xp because of difficulty getting groups.

[Sobee101]

I have not been on the red server that long but have a few thoughts that i would like to put out there. But i like the idea about shortening up the pvp level requirement but with that could see this coming in handy as well.
Take away anonymous (Pro - You know for a fact the persons level and if you are able to engage.) ( Con - Not classic) Just a thought.

[Kazi]

Nah keep anon but allow for the option to display your class and level while shrouding your zone.

[Potus]

If someone has input on why a high xp modifier is a good thing for long term population sustainability, I am all ears.

Why should I play on Red, which will have a reduced exp rate, and no one to group with, and have no serverwide chat to try to find groups, when I can just go onto Blue and get a group quickly?

[Potus]

And please I'm still curious, why don't you just hand out suspensions for people who troll OOC with racist, bigoted, homophobic nonsense? EQ has the report feature, I'll gladly report every time someone calls someone else the N Word.

Is it too hard to then suspend those folks for a couple of days? It'd clean up chat fast. Same with this board. Look at how many people call each other gay and derail threads with horrible image macros and crap. Just suspend them.

[Giovanni]

If someone has input on why a high xp modifier is a good thing for long term population sustainability, I am all ears.

A reasonable xp bonus modifier allows players to have a balanced social and work life outside of elfquest.

Killing a static mob on a 6 minute respawn timer alone in the middle of the Karanas with the same 2 spells for 1000 hours straight versus 100 hours straight doesn't make you a badass hero. It makes you an unbalanced individual that is probably neglecting other important aspects of your life.

These are the types of unbalanced individuals that post the batphone list of the enemy guild in the M4MMMM section on craiglist and hack kickstarter so they can steal your elf pixels.

The game came out in 1999, most of the normal people on this server are either approaching or have reached our 30's.

Let's all make sure our kids are properly fed and taken care of and then login to enjoy a little pvp.

[Derubael]

Why should I play on Red, which will have a reduced exp rate, and no one to group with, and have no serverwide chat to try to find groups

Did you read the post, or just assume that I said remove all XP bonus' and any form of global chat?

Also, PvP server.

And please I'm still curious, why don't you just hand out suspensions for people who troll OOC with racist, bigoted, homophobic nonsense?

Because we don't have the time or manpower to sit and play babysitter to global OOC.

Plus, half the people on the box would be suspended.

Most importantly, we shouldn't have to, and new people who roll here shouldn't automatically be subjected to some of the BS that goes through global OOC.

[Potus]

Did you read the post, or just assume that I said remove all XP bonus' and any form of global chat?

Also, PvP server.


Yes, I said reduced rate. The question still remains. And yes, PvP is conditional on their being other players to PvP. In your post you say EQ is fun because of the grind, which to a PvPer is a boring, tedious distraction.


Because we don't have the time or manpower to sit and play babysitter to global OOC.

Plus, half the people on the box would be suspended.

Most importantly, we shouldn't have to, and new people who roll here shouldn't automatically be subjected to some of the BS that goes through global OOC.

You don't have to babysit. People report, you get a guide to recommend the suspensions. If half the server gets suspended for a day or two then they probably will stop spamming the N word.

[dreama1]

Taking away two things that attract new players isn't going to bring more people.

If anything add more incentive, not take away the only incentive there is. If it is a pvp server, then let it be a pvp server - focus on PvP rather than PvE..

Edit; well maybe global ooc doesn't attract people, but when the population is so low, it facilitates social communication. You're going to have trolls and noxious people regardless that's the core of eq players on this box.

[Derubael]

Yes, I said reduced rate. The question still remains. And yes, PvP is conditional on their being other players to PvP. In your post you say EQ is fun because of the grind, which to a PvPer is a boring, tedious distraction.


Reduced rate = scaling bonus + group xp bonus (one of the ideas I suggested in the post)? Pretty sure that's not reduced.

And I said nothing about the grind. It's the journey and your experiences along the way. The PvP you encounter, the bonds you make, the enemes you create, and the attachments you form on your way to the high end is part of what makes EQ fun and retains players.

[dreama1]

Reduced rate = scaling bonus + group xp bonus (one of the ideas I suggested in the post)? Pretty sure that's not reduced.

And I said nothing about the grind. It's the journey and your experiences along the way. The PvP you encounter, the bonds you make, the enemes you create, and the attachments you form on your way to the high end is part of what makes EQ fun and retains players.

this is all well and good when you have a large population, until then it's just a form of idealized nostalgia that has no basis in reality.

[Derubael]

this is all well and good when you have a large population, until then it's just a form of idealized nostalgia that has no basis in reality.

So the solution is to continue stuffing the top end, burning people out when they get there and causing them to quit because they have no real attachment to their character with only a handful of days played to reach 52+?

[dreama1]

So the solution is to continue stuffing the top end, burning people out when they get there and causing them to quit because they have no real attachment to their character with only a handful of days played to reach 52+?

Not necessarily, you say that they have no attachment but the reality is that unless you have friends, it still takes time to get to 60.

The problem with the server isn't the bonuses, it's both ironically the people who play & the lack of people who play.

[Derubael]

I will add that some of you have valid points in regards to the community. Raising the population on red is a server-wide effort. There is only so much we as a staff can do to foster a positive environment for new players.

[krazyGlue]

Exp rate being too fast isn't what turns people off from the server.

Finally making it to the raid game and then realizing that there is no way to compete against the unemployed killing every raid mob on the server within a 3 hour window between 8am-11am on a Thursday so they can RMT the loots back to you while Maximillian posts your cellphone number to the M4MMMM section on Craiglist is what kills the server.

This hit the nail on the head . When you have 1 guild that farms the same content for 2+ years controls every single raid mob in a 3 hour window . There is no point to log in . It's either quit or join them . Only a very select brave few stick around to fight the good fight . Change the rules .
Make the server a multiple guild server .
Stop the 1 guild from farming Pixels just to bank and rmt them . And you will see the server grow and see old players start to log back on . Prime example .
Rd had 70 for gotnair they failed . Due to a
"Sketchy " zone crash .. Nihilum kills it once again to bank the pixels
Rd Has yet to see more then 30 since then

[Potus]

So the solution is to continue stuffing the top end, burning people out when they get there and causing them to quit because they have no real attachment to their character with only a handful of days played to reach 52+?

Do you have any evidence to support this? Most post 52 complaints involve Nihilum, how imbalanced PVP is, and how they monopolize mobs. That is why people give up.

Reduced rate = scaling bonus + group xp bonus (one of the ideas I suggested in the post)? Pretty sure that's not reduced.

That's a reduction to people who solo, which is the main source of exp now on the server. I don't see how switching to this method is going to bring people in.

I'm not trying to be contrarian or combative with you, I just don't understand how this helps the server instead of hurting people who still want to play here. The exp rate (currently) as I understand it now is very helpful to people who solo.

[dreama1]

Eq/EQ2 has never ever attracted the majority of their playerbase to pvp because the players who play on here tend to be more hardcore & no lifers. People don't have time to compete with that. That's a problem inherent of any pvp server though, it attracts the wrong type of people in the first place.

[Derubael]

The problem with not being able to find groups is exacerbated by the XP modifier (which, as reminder, is currently at 300% + scaling bonus).

Example:

Day 1: Lvl 1 shaman rolls

Day 2: Lvl 1 warrior rolls, shaman is lvl 10

Day 3: lvl 1 wizard rolls, warrior is lvl 10, shaman is lvl 20

These people will never group, unless one of the people who rolled after day 1 puts in a significant amount of play time to catch up. And if there was more than a day between their creations, forget it, because if they all play at a consistent rate, no one will ever catch up.

With a much lower modifier:

Day 1: lvl 1 shaman rolls

Day 2: lvl 1 warrior rolls, shaman is level 4

Day 3: lvl 1 wizard rolls, warrior is level 4, shaman is level 7

Day 4: Wizard is lvl 4, warrior is lvl 6 (he didn't play as much) shaman is level 9

These people are almost guaranteed to be within a grouping level range of each other, if not right off the bat, then very soon, because it gets harder to level.

The insane XP modifier literally prevents grouping, because even if everyone leveled at the same pace, unless they rolled on the same day the chances of them grouping up at any point is next to nothing. Even accounting for variable play times/effort, there will almost always be a disparity between levels because of how easy it is to get XP. And if you're a warrior, you might as well /q and roll a wizard, because you can't play here at all.

[dreama1]

The problem with not being able to find groups is exacerbated by the XP modifier (which, as reminder, is currently at 300% + scaling bonus).

Example:

Day 1: Lvl 1 shaman rolls

Day 2: Lvl 1 warrior rolls, shaman is lvl 10

Day 3: lvl 1 wizard rolls, warrior is lvl 10, shaman is lvl 20

These people will never group, unless one of the people who rolled after day 1 puts in a significant amount of play time to catch up. And if there was more than a day between their creations, forget it, because if they all play at a consistent rate, no one will ever catch up.

With a much lower modifier:

Day 1: lvl 1 shaman rolls

Day 2: lvl 1 warrior rolls, shaman is level 4

Day 3: lvl 1 wizard rolls, warrior is level 4, shaman is level 7

Day 4: Wizard is lvl 4, warrior is lvl 6 (he didn't play as much) shaman is level 9

These people are almost guaranteed to be within a grouping level range of each other, if not right off the bat, then very soon, because it gets harder to level.

The insane XP modifier literally prevents grouping, because even if everyone leveled at the same pace, unless they rolled on the same day the chances of them grouping up at any point is next to nothing. Even accounting for variable play times/effort, there will almost always be a disparity between levels because of how easy it is to get XP. And if you're a warrior, you might as well /q and roll a wizard, because you can't play here at all.

The problem I have with this is that you are assuming there are the other 2 players.. which I don't think is a fair assumption, based on my experience (and from what i've read from other people on here).

[Derubael]

Do you have any evidence to support this?

That people quit post 52 because they burn out (whether because of Nihilum cockblock or Nihilum pixel farm)? Yes. You stated as much in your post! Clearly getting people to these levels faster is not the solution. If they arrived at the top end more slowly, forming more connections and rivalries along the way, there would be more motivation to stick around even in the face of a toxic high end scene (see blue).

This is a snowball effect that resonates and gathers momentum as it goes along.


That's a reduction to people who solo, which is the main source of exp now on the server. I don't see how switching to this method is going to bring people in.

I'm not trying to be contrarian or combative with you, I just don't understand how this helps the server instead of hurting people who still want to play here. The exp rate (currently) as I understand it now is very helpful to people who solo.

Except it's not a reduction, it's still a bonus. A reduction would be less XP per mob than you get on blue. Is it a reduction from what we have now? Yes, because right now you're getting almost 400% xp per mob for most of your levels.

And I understand you're not being combative, no worries.

[Derubael]

The problem I have with this is that you are assuming there are the other 2 players.. which I don't think is a fair assumption, based on my experience (and from what i've read from other people on here).

New players roll on red 99 every. single. day!

[dreama1]

That people quit post 52 because they burn out (whether because of Nihilum cockblock or Nihilum pixel farm)? Yes. You stated as much in your post! Clearly getting people to these levels faster is not the solution. If they arrived at the top end more slowly, forming more connections and rivalries along the way, there would be more motivation to stick around even in the face of a toxic high end scene (see blue).

This is a snowball effect that resonates and gathers momentum as it goes along.




Except it's not a reduction, it's still a bonus. A reduction would be less XP per mob than you get on blue. Is it a reduction from what we have now? Yes, because right now you're getting almost 400% xp per mob for most of your levels.

And I understand you're not being combative, no worries.

Well, if you just admitted the problem (nihilium cockblock or pixel farm), then why aren't you addressing that in some way rather than looking at other things?

[Derubael]

Well, if you just admitted the problem (nihilium cockblock or pixel farm), then why aren't you addressing that in some way rather than looking at other things?

Most people quit before they get to that point because there is no one in their level range. It's not fun for most people to solo your way to 52.

Also, do what? Shit's classic. We're not going to dictate when and where people can hit raid targets. But if people are more inclined to stick with their characters when they do hit 52 (because they have more time invested in their character, have met more people, and gotten more experience in PvP), the turnover rate at 52+ will significantly decrease.

[Fawqueue]

Do you have any evidence to support this? Most post 52 complaints involve Nihilum, how imbalanced PVP is, and how they monopolize mobs. That is why people give up.


I'll submit my Red99 experience as evidence.

Rolled a ranger, leveled quickly up to 51 and was given a ton of gear by various friendly players. This included a Woodsman's Staff (from Nihilum) and a full set of Seb Scale armor.

Helped a buddy in Dalnir get his crescent, died on a goofy "it's the end of the night so lets try Overseer" attempt. Never logged back on, let all the gear rot. I literally couldn't have given two shits to even just make the run back to that corpse. I could have logged on after the fact and had a GM retrieve it...to this day I still don't care.

The biggest reason is that I leveled so quickly, mostly solo, that I just really didn't have any attachment to it. Without the investment of effort there is no investment in the rewards. So that being the case, I support Deru's post 100%.

[Fame]

Just wipe it clean, fuck.

[dreama1]

Most people quit before they get to that point because there is no one in their level range. It's not fun for most people to solo your way to 52.

Also, do what? Shit's classic. We're not going to dictate when and where people can hit raid targets. But if people are more inclined to stick with their characters when they do hit 52 (because they have more time invested in their character, have met more people, and gotten more experience in PvP), the turnover rate at 52+ will significantly decrease.

Well, I'm not that high enough to raid, but weren't people talking about variance?

Yes, i think everyone all agrees that soloing pales to grouping, but instead of soloing people are going to be waiting for groups that never come.

The thing is if you already know the problem, trying to do other stuff isn't going to eradicate the problem at all.. Pink elephant in the room and all that. .

I think a wipe is actually a good solution

[Derubael]

I'll submit my Red99 experience as evidence.

Rolled a ranger, leveled quickly up to 51 and was given a ton of gear by various friendly players. This included a Woodsman's Staff (from Nihilum) and a full set of Seb Scale armor.

Helped a buddy in Dalnir get his crescent, died on a goofy "it's the end of the night so lets try Overseer" attempt. Never logged back on, let all the gear rot. I literally couldn't have given two shits to even just make the run back to that corpse. I could have logged on after the fact and had a GM retrieve it...to this day I still don't care.

The biggest reason is that I leveled so quickly, mostly solo, that I just really didn't have any attachment to it. Without the investment of effort there is no investment in the rewards. So that being the case, I support Deru's post 100%.

Thanks for posting this, I've spoken to many people who shared the same experience (no investment + few relationships made along the way = no reason to stick around). I doubt any of the people I've talked to even read the forums, so I'm glad you said something.

Lower XP bonus = slower leveling = more groups = more attachment to the server and its players = lower turnover.

[Derubael]

waiting for groups that never come.


Out of 60 newly created characters on red 99 for february 15th, I checked 30. Out of those 30, 10 were brand new players who had never logged into red. These numbers hold pretty consistent.


The thing is if you already know the problem

The end game is only a small part of a much larger problem involving a high turnover rate among people who play here at all level ranges. The raid scene is just specific to people who reach 52+.

That's enough forumquesting for me tonight, but I did want to say:

http://img.pandawhale.com/97507-TLDR-TL-DR-gif-too-long-didnt-kvgd.gif

thx retti :D

[dreama1]

Thanks for posting this, I've spoken to many people who shared the same experience (no investment + few relationships made along the way = no reason to stick around). I doubt any of the people I've talked to even read the forums, so I'm glad you said something.

Lower XP bonus = slower leveling = more groups = more attachment to the server and its players = lower turnover.

Anyway, if the xp nerf comes to pass, i will stop playing on here, the population is not tenable for grouping. Any way you slice it, to force it would be devastating to any newbies in my opinion.

[Potus]

Text text text text

And I understand you're not being combative, no worries.

Ok, that's cool. I hope you're right. I'd like to see more people on.

[heartbrand]

I'm happy to report that there's been some progress between guilds on a better end game experience on red99. That's all for now.

[Smedy]

durabel if you guys really gave a shit you'd enable 2boxing

1. its classic
2. youll never substain a pop high enough to be healthy for european players, even p99 blue is down to 200 on euro hours and it gets over 1000 on us hours, we suppose to just quit or can you legalize 2 boxing for euros srsly?

[lite]

durabel if you guys really gave a shit you'd enable 2boxing

1. its classic
2. youll never substain a pop high enough to be healthy for european players, even p99 blue is down to 200 on euro hours and it gets over 1000 on us hours, we suppose to just quit or can you legalize 2 boxing for euros srsly?

[Nocsucow]

blue is never down to 200 homie.. 420 is the lowest ive seen in awhile and thats 4am CST

[Bazia]

if you want to increase pop on red wipe it

if you want to decrease it remove global ooc and exp bonus

[Galacticus]

The problem with not being able to find groups is exacerbated by the XP modifier (which, as reminder, is currently at 300% + scaling bonus).

Example:

Day 1: Lvl 1 shaman rolls

Day 2: Lvl 1 warrior rolls, shaman is lvl 10

Day 3: lvl 1 wizard rolls, warrior is lvl 10, shaman is lvl 20

These people will never group, unless one of the people who rolled after day 1 puts in a significant amount of play time to catch up. And if there was more than a day between their creations, forget it, because if they all play at a consistent rate, no one will ever catch up.

With a much lower modifier:

Day 1: lvl 1 shaman rolls

Day 2: lvl 1 warrior rolls, shaman is level 4

Day 3: lvl 1 wizard rolls, warrior is level 4, shaman is level 7

Day 4: Wizard is lvl 4, warrior is lvl 6 (he didn't play as much) shaman is level 9

These people are almost guaranteed to be within a grouping level range of each other, if not right off the bat, then very soon, because it gets harder to level.

The insane XP modifier literally prevents grouping, because even if everyone leveled at the same pace, unless they rolled on the same day the chances of them grouping up at any point is next to nothing. Even accounting for variable play times/effort, there will almost always be a disparity between levels because of how easy it is to get XP. And if you're a warrior, you might as well /q and roll a wizard, because you can't play here at all.


More realistically:

Warrior is stuck at lvl 15 because he can't solo. Quits with no one to group with.

Warrior is 15 shaman is 15 warrior wants to group but shaman wants to pvp and can solo so doesnt care about the warrior grouping with him. Shaman kills warrior, warrior rerolls wizard or quits.

Currently if you roll a character:


Day 1: you are alone
Day 2: you are alone
Day 3: twink harasses you
Day 4: maybe you find someone to group with.
Day 5: you are alone

We don't need 1000 level 1-50 players, we need 1000 50+ players.

If players quit before making it to 50 they don't even have chance to think about any of the high end raiding issues between guilds to cause them to quit.

Getting new players to stay and play from 1-50 is one challenge, and keeping players playing 52+ is another.

That's why getting new players AND keeping them here is important.

[Galacticus]

Thanks for posting this, I've spoken to many people who shared the same experience (no investment + few relationships made along the way = no reason to stick around). I doubt any of the people I've talked to even read the forums, so I'm glad you said something.

Lower XP bonus = slower leveling = more groups = more attachment to the server and its players = lower turnover.

Lower xp bonus = slower leveling = people can't catch up quickly to the main server population = can't make friends or attachments to server.


It's not grinding mobs it's the PEOPLE part that makes it fun. Most people here are not low level.


Put yourself in a lvl 1 noobs mind. What does that person want to do? Do they want to kill some gnolls in qeynos hills or are they excited to crush orcs skulls? No they want to level up and make friends and become powerful and fight battles against other players.

No one is here to grind in split paw.

Having a slow xp rate just slows people down from getting what they want.

It's bs to say that if only the xp were slower you could enjoy the game more or somehow you will be more attached. That guy who quit at 51 and let all his shit rot would have quit at 15 because he wasn't dedicated in the first place, he was a quitter and would have quit earlier.

Slow xp rate would be good if 50 people made new characters all at once and planned to get to 50 with them but there just aren't enough new people, too many twinks, and too many hostile players.

[runlvlzero]

Every single day I ever played here. I was able to find a group 30 +. With normal exp that use to be 10+ on live. On blue here it's more like 20+ You can get 1-20 groups here if you brave cb or unrest until someone friendly logs in. Right now the incentive is to twink and avoid that. People are cowardly and dumb here at both ends of the spectrum.

Exp rules need tweaked so these people have to make the choice we all did in 99 and l2play in ek or rathe like pals at lvl14 to progress.

Would that bring me back soon, Naw. But neither would 500% more exp bonus. But people will need to learn social skills to survive in a social game for once. All skill in eq boils down to teamwork and zone knowledge anyway.

[Faerie]

I'm sticking by my red/blue merger with 4+/- pvp idea. Anything less and I'm dissatisfied.

Global ooc is necessary with a low population. It makes the game like a fun chatroom, even when you're sitting around LFG and would otherwise be bored. Some of the most enjoyable times I had during my late EQ career were chatting with other bards on the global bard channel. The problem is the "toxic" element making this an uninviting prospect for people that aren't sadistic or otherwise insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqKZ_WIK5ms

I don't understand why it seems too difficult to moderate the ooc channel. People probably shouldn't be suspended or banned for their ooc behavior, but assuming that it's simple to take away a person's ooc capabilities the solution seems obvious. If someone gets out of hand, switch their ability to ooc to "off" and let them appeal on the forums here if they want it reversed. Everyone fears losing their voice (also scary: bureaucracy). On a sever like this where the toxic players tend to exhibit attention-seeking behavior, the threat of losing their voice will likely be taken more seriously than a 2 day suspension during which they throw a hissy fit on the forums and stir up lots of self-gratifying drama. Being unable to send ooc messages seems like a more lenient punishment in lieu of suspensions and bans to everyone not involved, so it has the added bonus of causing less drama overall. And really, if you have to bar even 300 accounts from sending ooc messages, is this so difficult to do? One ooc ban at a time. Do it to one account and you're done with that account, unless they make it through the crazy petition process which I've heard horror stories about..

On the topic of the exp bonus: it has to go. When I made my druid it was right after a nerf to the exp bonus, and tons of people were complaining hardcore about it here. There was still a considerable bonus in effect, but it wasn't enough for them. Your mistake was ever giving them a bonus in the first place, because if we're being honest modern gamers seek out that instant gratification even if it bores them in the long run. As people were complaining about the exp rate I shot up to 50 in about a month; even after being deleveled a bunch by Kimm and Chewie.

And while I really made an effort to talk to people and make e-friends, when people would send me tells asking to group I would either tell them no or join them begrudgingly. It wasn't just the faster solo xp, it was that I made a ton more money soloing and spells in this game are ridiculously expensive if you're not rich. I'd suggest you increase coin drop modifiers for people in groups (pre-50) as well as introduce group exp bonuses. To counter the damage to the economy you could delete Nihilum's guildbank :P

But yeah, back on the exp. It was a mistake giving us anything, because we don't appreciate it and demand more. The current xp bonus wasn't even intended to be permanent, it was something nice Rogean did to make up for extended server downtime. But the red players demanded it stay on and made a big stink, and Rogean decided to let us have it long term. It damaged the server for all the reasons outlined in OP.

There is no reason that a solo class should have an experience bonus on this server over blue (except in groups). Leveling as a solo class is easier here than on blue because there is no competition for the prime xp spots. Xp should be exactly the same on red as it is on blue, with the exception of a scaling group modifier. I don't understand at all why people think soloing should be faster here than on the pve server.

To lessen the impact on population, the changes to xp should be done over time. I suggest you decrease the modifier by a set percentage every 24 hours, with the blue standard baseline being reached in 4-6 months. Start doing this without telling anyone, and when people really start to notice and begin throwing their tantrums on the forums, introduce the scaling group xp and coin bonuses. Maybe get the GMs looking for low-mid range groups and running mini GM events for them with illusion potion prizes and the like.

And never ever increase the exp modifiers on this server again. The players don't know what they want (and we're batshit insane), and you should never listen to our half-baked suggestions or whiny demands.

In terms of net gain and longevity, slow and steady wins the race. We learned this stuff in preschool.

And again, maybe you guys should just delete the blue server? It would do wonders for the real server.

[Faerie]

Actually don't do it by a fixed percentage. If you randomize the daily change while still keeping it really small people are even less likely to notice it.

[Cid]

I think there might be a little confusion between the real Classic atmosphere that existed on Live where you were deeply invested in your character, especially their reputation, and what we have today.

That era does not exist anymore, cannot exist anymore and will never exist again!

MMOs have changed dramatically and regardless of what game you are playing, the social atmosphere in every game has been irrevocably changed by all the MMOs that followed EQ. Instant gratification replaced the grind, Auction Houses replaced the interaction of a barter system, and the technical acumen of kids has increased while the market age for MMOs has gone down.
The majority of EQ players back then were adults, and though kids played, a certain level of maturity and manners prevailed. Over the last decade those kids grew up and became the majority, but without a lifetime prior to social media and being inundated with technology.
If you ever played WoW you've seen the change firsthand. Sadly, that is what MMOs are like now, and no amount of nostalgia or clicking the heels of your ruby slippers is going to change that. The game you remember is dead, eulogized and buried.

If we can stop thinking this is ever going to be like Live was, we can probably put that energy into constructive ways to help the server rather than just picking apart the suggestions, yes suggestions, made by one of the few people who could actually fucking do something.

People didn't spend 30+ days played getting to 60 because the experience was slower. It took that long because you didn't have the slightest idea where anything was. No wiki, no Allakhazam, no EQtraders, no maps in-game or on the net. You can play through ANY game much, much faster the second or third time playing because you know where things are. What used to be learning experiences and secrets are now common knowledge.

No matter how much glamourizing is centered on grouping, being a warrior without healing buddy could be classified as massochism. Being a paladin or especially a shadow knight and instantly losing almost half your xp before racial modifiers are considered might even be more frustrating. Those are your tanks who cannot bind, cannot gate, cannot even cast sow, and are automatically at a disadvantage to casters in either offense and/or pvp capabilities.
Or how about a rogue so that every light blue mob has a chance to beat your ass so bad your barbarian rogue is beaten down into a halfling rogue before you get away. Or a cleric that has a seriously limited offense unless fighting undead, and despite the fact that a lot of us have no life, we're not undead.

There are new people on Red EVERY SINGLE DAY, I know this for a fact regardless of the exact number. Help these people out. Extend a fucking olive branch, don't expect those people to miraculously find each other all over Norrath to begin a lifelong friendship through gaming.
Help a newb, shit, help two newbs. You don't have to PL them to 50 and fully gear them, but a few pp for spells and some rotting gear out of your bank could possibly mean the difference between a pvp apprentice and the guy who went back to Blue.

Lastly, please do something about sharing raid targets. I don't really care what you do. You can spawn yourself as the raid mob and slaughter a whole raid if that's what gets you off, but claiming the people here are adults or saying GMs didn't on Live or that you shouldn't have to just doesn't work. We're not adults, we're giant, selfish children who somehow took control of the daycare.
Verant GMs were constantly around and getting involved and they did not joke around when it came to preserving the integrity of the game and the high fantasy atmosphere. Hell, I was forced to delete my first character because I refused to change his name from Bigmidget Tinygiant to something authentic to the world. Those GMs were worse than the IRS.
The role of a GM is a shitty one, probably far moreso than I even realize. You all have my appreciation and admiration for the work you put in, but I believe everyone volunteered for this (Regret that shit now huh?) and it is time for hands on action.

I have nothing against any guild, nor do I support them, but if nothing changes we might as well rename the game Monopoly. I do not know if nothing has been done because of apathy or trepidation, but the stranglehold that exists has a subsequent trickle down effect on the whole server.
I am not insulting Nihilum, because I am 100% positive that any guild trying to compete would do the exact same thing if they had the chance, regardless of the pious speeches and whatever pedestal they are standing on.

Until children are taught to share and disciplined enough to do it, they will snatch away any toy another child shows interest in. They do not take the toy because they want to play with it, but to prevent any other kid from being able to play with it.

Sound familiar?

[Pudge]

Suggested Revamp of Low Level Experience

Implement a teams based model up to level 46. This will not affect the high end game at all.

Provide an experience bonus for grouping with your team members and eliminate hybrid exp penalties.

Limit /ooc to your team members until lvl 46.

Do not change the overall experience rate. Both myself and Xantille have been playing since day 1. We have never hit 60 on a character.

While I look forward to the day when we can pvp on a relatively even playing field against the Nihilum no lifers, I would consider staying at a lower level just to enjoy a teams environment.

This sounds like it would be a lot of fun! And give ppl automatic friends to level with, shield newbs from ooc, while at the same time giving global communication channels. Awesome idea! And low level pvp might even become a thing if enough lowbies get on. This might attract new blues to dip their toes as well into a pvp environment as well?

I'd like to say it can be a 'beta' for teams but that would be stretching it. A+++ I'd love to see this get some serious consideration from GMs!

Exp rate being too fast isn't what turns people off from the server.

Finally making it to the raid game and then realizing that there is no way to compete against the unemployed killing every raid mob on the server within a 3 hour window between 8am-11am on a Thursday so they can RMT the loots back to you while Maximillian posts your cellphone number to the M4MMMM section on Craiglist is what kills the server.

Developers developers developers developers
(And for all you who ain't developers: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrsHGdBRklE)

[Tradesonred]

Its too late IMO to see things like this (OP). You wanna get people to log in on a low pop server, you need an incentive. Ive not been in a group once on my lvl12 rogue. Not once. (actually once or twice in crushbone for very short periods of time)

It took me something like 6-8 hours to get to level 12 and ive got a rubi BP, a FBSS and a hand me down piercer.

Its still a very long road to 52 with this setup.

Just try it. Roll a toon, a naked toon. Play on the server.

If you play everquest to be alone you might as well quit before lvl10. Guilds are actively recruiting lower level characters, so its not exactly be farmed at 52 by level 60s. You reach that sweet spot where people are going to help you with those last miles like i did a group recently, buffing them, healing, slowing for them etc... those are early 50s in my guild.

What you are saying, i would agree for a brand new server, with 600ish population, like how things started on red. Now what do you encounter the most on your journey to 52? Bored hard twinks out to grief you. At least at 52 youre hanging once in a while with your high level toon guildies for protection.

Again, i suggest you play on the server. It seems condescending a bit to say this but i dont know, i doubt youve tried to level a character to 52. Reach 52 on a character and then see if you want xp to be nerfed after. The population at low levels just isnt there. Yes wouldnt it be great if we nerfed xp and there was groups to be had and you could enjoy the journey etc... sure. But theres no groups to be had.

You want to encourage the few people there are at low levels to group up and enjoy the journey so it snowballs into a bigger pop? Then add a group xp bonus on top of the one thats already there.

Nerfing xp now will only entrench the old population more in their dominance. With xp that isnt a terrible hardcore grind, i can attempt to level a character solo (not because i think xp is better, theres just no one to group with), knowing ill get power leveled once in a while and helped at 52. Even with those advantages, if the xp is nerfed badly i will probably drop my alt and my shaman will be the only character i will ever level to high levels on red. Imagine a naked noob without any contacts on the server. So the newbies are losing a potential grouping partner because im not interested in boring myself to death on a really hard grind. On a theoritical server where theres groups to be had, and though the xp is slow, im enjoying the journey to 60, im not bored. But that isnt red99.

The speed to reach level52 must be reasonable so we continue to add population to this level bracket, where most of the population is. As more and more population reaches those levels, it becomes possible for new alliances, new guilds to pop up. Those people will then roll alts which will play with new players coming in, round and round it snowballs like this. They will have a high level toon they can use for some relaxing camping items for their alt time, helping other lowbies starting out, etc, etc... More options other than grind, grind or grind. Its too late now to want to have a slow, enjoy the journey server, you need to salvage whats left of red99. Either wipe the server and start it with slower xp (so the population is bottlenecked at the lower levels, giving you your enjoy the journey server), or be realistic about the status of Red99.

Thats another thing thats nice with slow xp like this but not crazy slow. Its that i get to try other classes.


The insane XP modifier literally prevents grouping, because even if everyone leveled at the same pace, unless they rolled on the same day the chances of them grouping up at any point is next to nothing. Even accounting for variable play times/effort, there will almost always be a disparity between levels because of how easy it is to get XP. And if you're a warrior, you might as well /q and roll a wizard, because you can't play here at all.

Ive not seen many players at all in fact. Population will probably double as Velious nears its launch. That will be the chance (probably one of the last) to jumpstart red again and make the population snowball in a good way. If you kill xp before server reaches 500ish regularly, mark my words, population will tank.

[Not_Kazowi]

Removing ooc is the quickest way to make this server feel incredibly dead. Probably 85% of zones have no one in them which creates a ghost town feeling. Ooc brings the server a lively feeling, just police it don't remove it.

If you remove exp bonus you will lose people. In theory making people earn their levels and grouping is a great idea but it isn't reality. These things don't work on a 100 man server. Who cares if turn over rate is higher with exp bonus, it still adds population to the server and at this point we can't be picky on how we do that.

[Tradesonred]

I'm sticking by my red/blue merger with 4+/- pvp idea. Anything less and I'm dissatisfied.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QoPQxqRo12I/T9ENZ5ub9eI/AAAAAAAAC0U/AOzcdRF3GOE/s640/Neil-deGrasse-Tyson-gif.gif

[Slathar]

ATTENTION: PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS SONG WHILE READING THIS POST: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okgJc3qYkhg
Genesis: In Too Deep

Can we modify the experience to be 50% slower than blue? I think this would foster a community that is tight-knit and accustomed to overcoming hardships together as a group instead of as solo.

Furthermore, would it be possible to make the penalty for death more harsh? For example, if you die in Befallen perhaps a skeleton would steal a piece of your armor for his treasure horde each time you died. You could also make it that only players who are resurrected by level 56 Revivescence can get their bodies.

I have a dream of a server with gnomes, elves, dwelven (that's the true plural for dwarf; thank you Tolkien), and erudites band together to slay evil monsters, to quest after the holy chalice, and to liberate the cave of terror from the Yeti Queen's rancorous, green buttcrack.

Today I ask you, Derubael, to enable a global -50% exp modifier to support our journey to eternal glory in the eyes of the fishlord Phinigel Autropos. I implore you to implement these changes or Azeroth will be forever tainted by these unclassic mechanics such as Global OOC and the toxicity it brings to our fair lands.

I truly believe that a few more changes could be made to enhance the player experience of red99, as well. First, we have to have some sort of application or program that allows the player to "enter Norrath." You could do this in several ways; sending players hits of highly-concentrated LSD, a hammer to beat yourself over the head with to induce more brain trauma (not needed for Asperger's Virgins like Rallyd who is a fat fucking nerd and virgin). You could also have some sort of program that detects the players BMI and then broadcasts the number above the players head to induce as much grief as possible.

Can we truly know the will of Innoruuk? I have studied him for decades, taking scrupulous notes on the practices of his followers, and I have come to the conclusion that he, the Dark Lord of Hate, Innoruuk, would prefer if we had some sort of Red99 Charity Drive. We could hit up half-way houses, drug rehabilitation centers, or anywhere else that lots of people congregate with little else to do. The plan of action would be to deliver as many laptops with Everquest installed on them. Then, we get them to play on Red99 (I'll write a walk-through in easy to understand language that the proletariat uses, don't worry). Next, we will form a newbie guild with them to make sure that there are people to group with. This is a win-win and if you don't support it the server will surely be enveloped in the celluloid-drapes of Rallyd's arms; bathed in darkness for eternity.

The final proposal, Derubael, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is to integrate Brad McQuaid back into Everquest. He was the maker of this great game, right? Here's how we can do it. Weekly raffles to win a date with the man himself. We can get Golden Corral to sponsor this. I'll be singing the song of The Shire while dipping my ribs in that chocolate fountain.

I sure hope we can see at least some of these changes enabled or else I'm going to eat myself into a frenzy in my shabby studio apartment. I will thrash and thrash around with my t-rex arms and my walrus-body until Susan from the 4th floor comes up and bangs on my door again.

Thank you and go fuck yourselves.

[krazyGlue]

Slather wins

[Smedy]

Can we modify the experience to be 50% slower than blue? I think this would foster a community that is tight-knit and accustomed to overcoming hardships together as a group instead of as solo.

Furthermore, would it be possible to make the penalty for death more harsh? For example, if you die in Befallen perhaps a skeleton would steal a piece of your armor for his treasure horde each time you died. You could also make it that only players who are resurrected by level 56 Revivescence can get their bodies.

I have a dream of a server with gnomes, elves, dwelven (that's the true plural for dwarf; thank you Tolkien), and erudites band together to slay evil monsters, to quest after the holy chalice, and to liberate the cave of terror from the Yeti Queen's rancorous, green buttcrack.

Today I ask you, Derubael, to enable a global -50% exp modifier to support our journey to eternal glory in the eyes of the fishlord Phinigel Autropos. I implore you to implement these changes or Azeroth will be forever tainted by these unclassic mechanics such as Global OOC and the toxicity it brings to our fair lands.

I truly believe that a few more changes could be made to enhance the player experience of red99, as well. First, we have to have some sort of application or program that allows the player to "enter Norrath." You could do this in several ways; sending players hits of highly-concentrated LSD, a hammer to beat yourself over the head with to induce more brain trauma (not needed for Asperger's Virgins like Rallyd who is a fat fucking nerd and virgin). You could also have some sort of program that detects the players BMI and then broadcasts the number above the players head to induce as much grief as possible.

Can we truly the know the will of Innoruuk? I have studied him for decades, taking scrupulous notes on the practices of his followers, and I have come to the conclusion that he, the Dark Lord of Hate, Innoruuk, would prefer if we had some sort of Red99 Charity Drive. We could hit up half-way houses, drug rehabilitation centers, or anywhere else that lots of people congregate with little else to do. The plan of action would be to deliver as many laptops with Everquest installed on them. Then, we get them to play on Red99 (I'll write a walk-through in easy to understand language that the proletariat uses, don't worry). Next, we will form a newbie guild with them to make sure that there are people to group with. This is a win-win and if you don't support it the server will surely be enveloped in the celluloid-drapes of Rallyd's arms; bathed in darkness for eternity.

The final proposal, Derubael, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is to integrate Brad McQuaid back into Everquest. He was the maker of this great game, right? Here's how we can do it. Weekly raffles to win a date with the man himself. We can get Golden Corral to sponsor this. I'll be singing the song of The Shire while dipping my ribs in that chocolate fountain.

I sure hope we can see at least some of these changes enabled or else I'm going to eat myself into a frenzy in my shabby studio apartment. I will thrash and thrash around with my t-rex arms and my walrus-body until Susan from the 4th floor comes up and bangs on my door again.

Thank you and go fuck yourselves.

a+

[Gaffin 7.0]

lol tradesonred said 6-8 hrs to lvl a rogue to 12 with rubi bp are u fuckin retarded

[Squire]

Derubael,

I registered on here just to reply to your suggestions for the server, and as someone who literally started for the first time yesterday allow me to give some input from my perspective as a new player.

So I create my first and only character, Squire, a High Elf Paladin, and I begin killing bats and decaying skeletons as per usual, there is maybe 1 or 2 other people in Fay, mostly passing through. I figure I’ll see more people in Crushbone or in BB due to the rings and docks and carry on. At level 3, I move to the Kaladim newbie area to start collecting bone chips, same thing. I have the entire zone to myself.

I later move into Crushbone, around level 5, still the only person in the zone.

I'm pathetically beating shit down solo. I maybe run into one or two other people around Orc Hill and the Kelethin lifts, my only source of entertainment is the occasional cult-like chanting of "Pras" following some yellow text or some shit talk. Otherwise it’s the “wooshing” ambient sound of running around a polygon elf forest and my wife not shutting the fuck up in the next room.

I'd love to group, in no small part due to the fact that I'm a melee in patchwork, but it just isn't going to happen. The current population cannot support a network of groups at all level ranges, and holy fuck, if there wasn't an exp bonus I'd probably still be level 4, crying myself to sleep killing decaying skeletons and either rolled a druid with the explicit intention of supporting a Paladin via farming, not out of a desire to, but out of necessity, or to just simply quit. How about you let me play the character I want with a real-world individual exp bonus which also encourages people who are already 60 to make alts so I actually encounter someone?

Your notions about people wanting to be the fucking fellowship of the ring make me wonder if I've actually put more play time into red than you at this point. Likewise, this isn't most peoples first time playing Everquest, I don't want to "savor" being a dickless nothing jousting the one other person I encountered, who was a level 6 rogue with an epic. I want to get to where the party is, and have my asshole destroyed as soon as I ding 52.

Your ideas are great, for this hypothetical Teams server I read about, but not for red and it’s current incarnation, leave the changes to Alecta.

p.s. I named myself Squire and not Badass Champion Paladin Tarwine Jr because I have little PvP experience and would like to learn more. If anyone wants to give me some pointers on jousting etc I'd love to learn. Also, if anyone has some extra Paladin gear they wouldn't mind getting rid of I'd appreciate it.

[Silent]

I need to read your OP more thoroughly, But people who level up real quick to 52+ and get 'shitstomped' by 60s or equal level chars nothing will really change much. You can either pvp or you can't thats how its always been. As for global ooc, removing it with such a low pop would be annoying. However changing it to a limited amount of ooc messages per hour or like once per minute or 3-5 minutes would be different.

At one point, There was a time where there were multiple newbie guilds and people WERE doing MM/lguk dungeon crawls, random people in the same level range playing together. What fucked it up basically was soon as someone got mad and started naming names of alts. It is funny how your alt can group with someone who claims to absolutely HATE YOU and how BAD you are at the game and suck constantly and cant do anything right. Only to be there on another character playing right next to them while they have no idea. Back when knights/azure guard and those other guilds. We had groups rolling from low unrest to HHK to mistmoore to lguk and higher.

[Tradesonred]

lol tradesonred said 6-8 hrs to lvl a rogue to 12 with rubi bp are u fuckin retarded

At least 1.5 hour of this was spent trying to get a port and a bind to Gfay so my chances of getting a group would be higher, still couldnt get some groupage done. I had access to one of the biggest guild on the server and still this wasnt instantaneous.

Oh and welcome to ignore, shit for brains

[heartbrand]

Leave a 100% modifier remove all other bonus
Put in grouping exp bonus
Remove hybrid exp penalty
Allow two boxing until 500 pop achieved
Moderate ooc
Blue copies or transfers
More reasonable punishments for people based on prior history etc. Send warning tells for non game breaking behaviors.
On the other side, perma ban all accounts repeatedly of certain trolls who are here only to ruin the box. We know who they are.
Start moderating the fucking pvp boards and punish game accounts. Obviously warn people first, etc, but if people can't learn to relax and keep posting burn it down then burn their accounts down. Maybe even raffle their gear off their accounts to new players for lulz.

Box fixed.

[runlvlzero]

A+ post slather, you are a Hobbit among Dalemen.

Heartbrand confirmed permamad. But U know, I still like u cause u try.

ITT: (for sane people only minus the trolls)

1. Normalize exp for solo classes
2. Give people more exp for grouping
3. Give people more coin for grouping
4. Decrease the range at the end game by which geared players can grief new players (duh)
5. Server needs a non-on by default global chat. Something we can turn on/off, self moderate. (IMO self moderation is a win if feasible) Nio taking up an entire chat window for it is dumb and doesn't achieve the desired effect for new players, it's a huge let down.
6. Hybrids are highly penalized by normalized exp end game, this needs looking into.
7. Increase the range at which it's beneficial to group.

Above changes overall - would be a huge net+ for everyone on the server.

I don't see anything wrong with the above changes. People can still solo plenty fast. People will want to group more when they can. And Tune like incidents will be less common cause almost anyone with a bit of skill can fight back vs someone +4 levels and it makes it reasonable to group vs such people rather than get picked off and 1 shotted one at a time. By VP gears with OP classes and a huge level difference.

Maybe un-nerf pet exp with normalized exp.

BTW how are resists these days? I heard they got better, any further mechanics changes?

[Took]

Lost it about halfway through Slathar's post when Phil Colins hit his high notes.

[Slathar]

Leave a 100% modifier remove all other bonus
Put in grouping exp bonus
Remove hybrid exp penalty
Allow two boxing until 500 pop achieved
Moderate ooc
Blue copies or transfers
More reasonable punishments for people based on prior history etc. Send warning tells for non game breaking behaviors.
On the other side, perma ban all accounts repeatedly of certain trolls who are here only to ruin the box. We know who they are.
Start moderating the fucking pvp boards and punish game accounts. Obviously warn people first, etc, but if people can't learn to relax and keep posting burn it down then burn their accounts down. Maybe even raffle their gear off their accounts to new players for lulz.

Box fixed.

I think you need to wake up to the fact that this server has a low population because Everquest is 14 years old and the PVP aspect is even less appealing than the PVE aspect.

Best case scenario is maybe red99 gets 300 total players.

[heartbrand]

Oh, so you mean with some rule changes we could triple the pop? Sounds good to me.

[Slathar]

Oh, so you mean with some rule changes we could triple the pop? Sounds good to me.

Given the history of the administrators, do you believe that this is likely?

[heartbrand]

Yes. For the first time ever changes are actually being implemented.

[Pudge]

I'm pathetically beating shit down solo. I maybe run into one or two other people around Orc Hill and the Kelethin lifts, my only source of entertainment is the occasional cult-like chanting of "Pras" following some yellow text or some shit talk. Otherwise it’s the “wooshing” ambient sound of running around a polygon elf forest and my wife not shutting the fuck up in the next room.

...........

p.s. I named myself Squire and not Badass Champion Paladin Tarwine Jr because I have little PvP experience and would like to learn more. If anyone wants to give me some pointers on jousting etc I'd love to learn. Also, if anyone has some extra Paladin gear they wouldn't mind getting rid of I'd appreciate it.

Pras, I think I might take young Squire under my wing. Sounds like a badass in the making. And a true Paladin that would detest the nihilum scum.

[Tubben]

Reducing the global xp bonus while increasing group xp bonus wont do anything, just because there arent groups to group with.

And you cant search for groups, because everyone is anon. It just wont do anything good.

Reduce pvp range to +/-4, increase xp modifier up to lv 51 even more, reduce the prices the spells cost.

Make it that everyone and his mother can reach 51 fast, and from there one remove any xp bonus.

[heartbrand]

Pras, I think I might take young Squire under my wing. Sounds like a badass in the making. And a true Paladin that would detest the nihilum scum.

PL'ing him as we speak

[Slathar]

Yes. For the first time ever changes are actually being implemented.

Changes include:

1. Experience mod removed for solo exp
2. Global OOC change (unspecified)
3. Simulated repops

When should I expect the population surge?

[Mac Dretti]

Derubael,

I registered on here just to reply to your suggestions for the server, and as someone who literally started for the first time yesterday allow me to give some input from my perspective as a new player.

So I create my first and only character, Squire, a High Elf Paladin

p.s. I named myself Squire and not Badass Champion Paladin Tarwine Jr because...

sounds legit

[dreama1]

Derubael, you have contradicted yourself.

You say that people level too quickly and then once they reach 52 or 60, they quit.

Then when I said why don't you address why those people are quitting, you said that most people quit before they reach 52..

So, which is it ?

[Gaffin 7.0]

I'm going to say this and I think most of the hardcores will say nah your just a faggot.

I got over it eventually, I dont think most can get over trying the server for the first time.

But, I myself and others have quit due to being constantly killed over and over at 52 by lvl 60's.

The level gap is nuts... why not do rallos zek rules and use a 4 level range? In overall their may be a slower PvP gap but over time it will flourish and make the game more enjoyable. Everyone likes to kill some blue cons from time to time, but the guys on the other end getting killed at 52 with rags gear vs a 60 dude in vp gear is really unfair. Yeah this is a PvP server, I understand that, I got over it lvling past 52 eventually but I dont think this is the case for people coming to the server for the first time.

This also one of the reasons you get so much rage in ooc.

[heartbrand]

FFA zones in sol b and perma and 8 level range are reel dum

[Gaffin 7.0]

FFA zones in sol b and perma and 8 level range are reel dum

I agree to this, and I fuckin love PvP. But blocking people out of zones is pretty sad, I mean you cant even go to SoLB and try to do efreeti or tranix without 10 nilly logging in and trying to cock block it with lvl 60's

[Derubael]

Derubael, you have contradicted yourself.

You say that people level too quickly and then once they reach 52 or 60, they quit.

Then when I said why don't you address why those people are quitting, you said that most people quit before they reach 52..

So, which is it ?

It's both, as stated in the OP.

[Derubael]

Oh, and I agree with +/- 4 level range. Sounds classic.

[Cid]

Why do half the suggestions for increasing the population involve banning people you have a grudge against or that annoy you? Stop thinking about how it benefits you, your guild or your clique, otherwise any suggestion you make is no better than a troll. And not a good one like Slathar's either.

Also, stop suggesting they allow boxing or wipe the server. Everyone who is seriously promoting either one is doing so for a selfish reason, despite how many layers of benevolence you try to hide it behind.
Figuring out a way to stop people from lying and using their IP Exemption to box their father's brother's spouse's character would do far more good. Not everyone can box even if it were allowed but everyone can play one account. If the cheaters boxing now is your reasoning, it's a self-defeating reason. You boxing does not even the playing field, because now they can box four characters and so on exponentially.

Suggesting the server be wiped is ignorant and incredibly selfish. The main reason given for wiping the server is Nihilum controlling raid targets they don't need in order to deny the loot to others and the general unfairness of the highend of the game.
What the people crying for a wipe don't seem to get is that getting their wish will take from others what was denied to them, but it makes you worse than the people you fucking hate.
You may be willing to lose everything to fuck over your enemies, but not everyone cares about who hurt your feelings and how unfair it was. You do not have the right to take from everyone what they put effort in to obtain just to put a bandaid on your pride.

A wipe is not justice, it's not karma and it's sure as hell not fair. It is selfish, vengeful and makes every single person (Friend, foe, family and stranger alike) into collateral damage so you can feel vindicated on the internet.
If you just delete your account and go away it works out the same for you without involving a single innocent bystander.

P.S. If you think I'm against it because I don't want to lose my toons/gear you are wrong. I would delete my accounts without hesitation if it would be good for the entire server and/or increase the population. I got over any sense of greed back on Live and my ego will never be affected by something that occurs in a game.

[heartbrand]

I'm for boxing because I believe it would allow smaller crews to flourish, open up the low level scene and increase the abundance of high level groups, and be a huge help in Velious on a low pop server where you REQUIRE double digit clerics for raid mobs. Shrug.

[Sektor]

I'm for boxing because I believe it would allow smaller crews to flourish, open up the low level scene and increase the abundance of high level groups, and be a huge help in Velious on a low pop server where you REQUIRE double digit clerics for raid mobs. Shrug.

this

[Barladore]

I'm for boxing because I believe it would allow smaller crews to flourish, open up the low level scene and increase the abundance of high level groups, and be a huge help in Velious on a low pop server where you REQUIRE double digit clerics for raid mobs. Shrug.

signed.

[Gaffin 7.0]

Oh, and I agree with +/- 4 level range. Sounds classic.

I would be so happy if this goes, not only does it help the server gain pop but also shows who has skill

[thisuserwasbannedlol]

exp bonus is nice but its gone 50+ and theres nothing but toxic neckbeards

highest I ever got was 3 blues in 55 and people just love to bind camp me and staff do nothing

-1

server will never be successful due to bad players and bad staff.

it will spike to 500 for a couple months for velious, but once people get bored of that will sink to 200 then 100 then die.

enjoy my nuts

[Gaffin 7.0]

people probably wouldnt bind camp you if you didnt spew how bad the server is and other bullshit in ooc all day long

[Kergan]

Leave a 100% modifier remove all other bonus

Agreed, at least for the time being.


Put in grouping exp bonus


I guess I'm ok with that.


Remove hybrid exp penalty


This is being done eventually, I don't see an issue with doing it now. On blue you can't get a group as a hybrid very easily because the entire group understand it is quite literally slowing them down to use one.


Allow two boxing until 500 pop achieved


As someone who would benefit massively from this because I have access to a 60 cleric, ench, porting characters, etc I still don't like it. I can't give you a great reason why I'm so opposed to it, aside from the fact that it would become the new requirement to min/max. Maybe because EQ is a game built in a way that makes 2 boxing super easy and effective.


Moderate ooc


I agree in theory, but manpower is something we typically lack from the staff. Even more so on red than blue.


Blue copies or transfers


I guess at the end of the day I'm ok with a 1 way gearless transfer. My preference would still be to make people level up and gain some sort of attachment though. You're also not addressing the true problem with this solution, there is little to no 1-50 population. A healthy server would mean I could create a level 1 and pretty much be able to find groups all the way to 60.


More reasonable punishments for people based on prior history etc. Send warning tells for non game breaking behaviors.


Total agreement here. I'd go a step further and actually define the punishments people would get for lets say, a 1st and 2nd time PNP violation, a 1st time exploit punishment, etc. Personally I have no issue at all busting out the banhammer for a first time exploiter but a PNP violation? Please. To use Jibekn as an example since he is a member of the side opposite to me, what he did was pretty stupid and obviously against the rules but I would not say a full ban is warranted. Give him a week timeout as a first time offender, kick it up to a month for a 2nd time, and 3rd strike and you're gone.


On the other side, perma ban all accounts repeatedly of certain trolls who are here only to ruin the box. We know who they are.


If rules aren't being broken you can't punish people just for being a pain in the ass. That opens up all sorts of issues. A lot of people would say what Chewie does with FoH in Lguk is the ultimate troll, but could you honestly say he deserves a ban for it?


Start moderating the fucking pvp boards and punish game accounts. Obviously warn people first, etc, but if people can't learn to relax and keep posting burn it down then burn their accounts down. Maybe even raffle their gear off their accounts to new players for lulz.

Box fixed.

I wouldn't mind at all people being total douchebags on the forums receiving some punishment in game. In some ways I would miss Stasis and Colgate though.

[Tecmos Deception]

Feeling pretty eye for an eye atm, so:

lol red.

[runlvlzero]

Derubael,

I registered on here just to reply to your suggestions for the server, and as someone who literally started for the first time yesterday allow me to give some input from my perspective as a new player.

So I create my first and only character, Squire, a High Elf Paladin, and I begin killing bats and decaying skeletons as per usual, there is maybe 1 or 2 other people in Fay, mostly passing through. I figure I’ll see more people in Crushbone or in BB due to the rings and docks and carry on. At level 3, I move to the Kaladim newbie area to start collecting bone chips, same thing. I have the entire zone to myself.

I later move into Crushbone, around level 5, still the only person in the zone.

I'm pathetically beating shit down solo. I maybe run into one or two other people around Orc Hill and the Kelethin lifts, my only source of entertainment is the occasional cult-like chanting of "Pras" following some yellow text or some shit talk. Otherwise it’s the “wooshing” ambient sound of running around a polygon elf forest and my wife not shutting the fuck up in the next room.

I'd love to group, in no small part due to the fact that I'm a melee in patchwork, but it just isn't going to happen. The current population cannot support a network of groups at all level ranges, and holy fuck, if there wasn't an exp bonus I'd probably still be level 4, crying myself to sleep killing decaying skeletons and either rolled a druid with the explicit intention of supporting a Paladin via farming, not out of a desire to, but out of necessity, or to just simply quit. How about you let me play the character I want with a real-world individual exp bonus which also encourages people who are already 60 to make alts so I actually encounter someone?

Your notions about people wanting to be the fucking fellowship of the ring make me wonder if I've actually put more play time into red than you at this point. Likewise, this isn't most peoples first time playing Everquest, I don't want to "savor" being a dickless nothing jousting the one other person I encountered, who was a level 6 rogue with an epic. I want to get to where the party is, and have my asshole destroyed as soon as I ding 52.

Your ideas are great, for this hypothetical Teams server I read about, but not for red and it’s current incarnation, leave the changes to Alecta.

p.s. I named myself Squire and not Badass Champion Paladin Tarwine Jr because I have little PvP experience and would like to learn more. If anyone wants to give me some pointers on jousting etc I'd love to learn. Also, if anyone has some extra Paladin gear they wouldn't mind getting rid of I'd appreciate it.

Even with this exp bonus your better off just rolling a druid to support your paladin. In fact that make it easier. Once you hit 40+ you can farm your first 2kplat and level your pladin to 40 in 2-3 days solo not bothering to group with any 2hs you can afford. Hence that is all your ever going to see happening on this box.

No pvp for your mighty paladin in Crushbone unless it's vs Ironlion or Macewindu. And they only play once a week. Not to mention you will just get destroyed in patchwork anyway. Still better off as a druid.

With the exp bonus what were seeing is people might as well log in bound in OT or FV with level 40+ chars and bronze, with a kunark weapon. Right after hitting char select. Unless they do something and try to play an untwinked melee. In that case they should have to wait 1 week to log in their chars after creation.

[Kergan]

Tecmos much respect for your solo artist challenge work on blue. You should play on red some time all those money camps are available probably 95% of the time. We also enjoy certain tactical advantages like being able to gflux each other without use of the /duel command (just one example).

[Stasis01]

Derubael is completely wrong as most server GM's are, it's no surprise.

The problem isn't being sky rocketed into 52-60 range with SUPER FAST ELITE EXP, it's that 1-50 are actually doable/fun, and 51-60 are the equivalent to gouging your eyes out with a fucking fork.

The REAL problem with our EXP modifier, is that it really doesn't even fucking scratch the surface of how gay and hard this box is.

Basically you have to endure 6 months torture from max geared neckbeards chasing down EXP grps to get 52-60, if you don't know anyone you'll most likely quit, there's no incentive to grouping and helping out the little guy as they will ultimately join Nihi or quit with all your investment.

52-60 is a fucking joke of a grind for this kind of population/server type, way too fucking long/no grp bonuses.

1-50 is mostly in empty zones by yourself, yeah making this a longer process will surely make people gain more PVP knowledge getting shit on by FOH twinks or playing SOLO.

Either way, if you want to improve the grouping/population side of Red99 and not focus on end-game which is what repops/PNP/and the changes recently have been most helpful to and the game is add a MASSIVE GROUPING BONUS, REMOVE CLASS PENALTIES.

NO GLOBAL EXP BONUS, PER PERSON % EXP BONUS GROUPING, DONT MAKE 52-60 TAKE 6 MONTHS VS GEARED NECKBEARDS, DON'T KEEP IT 8 LEVEL LIMIT, GG, STUPID THREAD.

[Kergan]

Stasis with his typical constructive feedback.

[Stasis01]

It's going in the complete wrong direction of what needs to happen.

This is fucking 1999 EQ EMU box, all these toons will be gone someday, this shit means nothing.

Making people grind a year to get 60, getting shit on by established players 80% of the time is a STUPID MODEL, make it easier for people to get to 60 by implementing good GROUP BONUSES, REDUCE PVP LEVEL LIMIT TO 56, AND FUCKING REDUCE THE EXP PER LEVEL 51-60.

God it's like fucking painful talking to people here, 99% of you are FUCKING DUMB.

[Mac Dretti]

Leave a 100% modifier remove all other bonus
Put in grouping exp bonus
Remove hybrid exp penalty
Allow two boxing until 500 pop achieved
Moderate ooc
Blue copies or transfers


AGREE

I don't agree with the punishment sections, because I think they should be suspensions, with warnings, and with dialogue... not just boot to screen without any kind of dialogue. Nobody should be banned for anything unless its something severe.

Also should be consistent and not pick and choose, all the way or not at all.

[Stasis01]

And TBH if you want groups to be going in lowby areas allow a 3 month boxing trial, no one plays clerics/enchanters because they want to play PVP effective classes, It's almost like there's a fix to this problem that would allow people to have support classes but not have to main them, this shit almost FIXES ITSELF.

[Kergan]

Yeah, and it's too hard to get a cloak of flames so just put it on the vendor for 1kpp.

If you are too idiotic to understand that easy is not equal to fun then I can certainly understand why you are so frustrated by the 99%.

[Tassador]

same 5 people spam ooc all day. if we could get these cats to a chatroom m4m all would be OK!

[Stasis01]

Yeah, and it's too hard to get a cloak of flames so just put it on the vendor for 1kpp.

If you are too idiotic to understand that easy is not equal to fun then I can certainly understand why you are so frustrated by the 99%.

Yea dawg levelling is so hard this argument always makes me laugh.

BRO I DID THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER FOR 16 HRS LIKE A PRO.

No, you're just a fucking loser retard with no life and either really good drugs or a really boring life.

Faggot.

[Stasis01]

WTB Derubael completing Heartbrands Melee challenge with documentation/log book on times to level said untwinked melee and when he quit.

[Kergan]

That's like saying running a marathon isn't hard because everyone has done plenty of running in their life.

Trolls aren't supposed to have your level of rage. Which makes me think you actually take this shit seriously, which makes me feel bad for you.

Let's give up this internet war of words and be friends?

[Sigleaf]

Hotzones.... The key to fast exp and pvp. Have 3-4 dispersed for levels 1-50 and change them every month.

[Cid]

I'm for boxing because I believe it would allow smaller crews to flourish, open up the low level scene and increase the abundance of high level groups, and be a huge help in Velious on a low pop server where you REQUIRE double digit clerics for raid mobs. Shrug.

Can you honestly say that the fact that it would greatly benefit you and especially your guild has no bearing on your choice? Do you really want this to help Azrael, Flowers of Happiness and Nihilum members get more groups and be more successful on raids?

What about the brand new player to EQ or those just new to Red? Would having twice the number of pvp threats from the same small population really make the server more inviting? And if the people soloing now to level can suddenly box their own healer, tank or dps how exactly is that going to make them want to group? With a box pets no longer steal 75% xp and dual-boxing will become the new soloing.

I like you HB, you have my respect for what you do, but I already know you're not objective. Last time you and I butted heads over boxing your reasoning was that it would help create groups and since so many IP Exempt people were abusing it to box they should just make dual-boxing legal.
I think the cheaters should all be suspended or banned based on the severity of the crime, because no one boxing is the only way everyone is inherently equal.

Within guilds boxing would be a huge benefit and I would probably argue its merits if I was an officer or leader of a guild, but 200 assholes boxing doesn't add 200 new people to the population, it's just cloning assholes until there are twice as many.

If this were Blue, aka PVE, where it is supposed to be all about grouping and raiding, I would be an advocate for boxing. For at least 16 hours a day, almost every day for the last 18 months people repeated "This is PVP!" while insulting and making fun of others for caring more about PVE than PVP.
Besides me, who on this server hasn't used "smurf" or "bluebie" as derogatory terms to insult either a person or their pvp skills? Yet now being able to group or raid pve targets is one of the primary reasons given for allowing boxing.

Does Sickpuppy boxing a healer with Mrbigs really benefit all the people who come rushing to play here because of boxing?

I am not trying to pick on you in particular HB, you're just one of the loudest proponents for boxing and yet hold a position that makes it virtually impossible for you to be objective or unbiased. I've been in exactly the same position as you and I know that emotions and objectivety DO NOT mix and you cannot be a good guild leader if you are not emotionally invested. To do your job you HAVE to have bias.

I really wish I could just convince you to focus your verbal efforts on getting something done about the people illegal boxing thanks to IP Exemptions being given to people getting them intentionally to box. We need more strict enforcement of the current rules, and definitely more consistent punishments, before we start changing up the rules.
Call me old fashioned but when it says "Boxing will result in a Perma-Ban" in a sticky topic, I believe the fuckers should be perma-banned. No more lifting suspensions and bans early, no more goddamn favortism for anyone.

[heartbrand]

I think it helps everyone equally, yes.

[Galacticus]

While boxing sounds like a good idea, it won't help server pop. It will be more targets for twinks and a requirement for anyone new to the server. Most of all this would benefit those who already have multipul 60 accounts which are the already established people on the server.

Chances are if your boxing your gonna need to group less with other people and will most likely just duo with your boxed character from 1-50.

If you did allow boxing it should be limited to characters under 50 for the soul purpose of bringing a player in the 1-50 range to the main populations level so they can meet people and make fiends.



The thing that is important is getting people to stay here and play.

Maybe we should have a one time pass for every new player to just create a level 40. That is what other mmos have done in the past to help fix population decline.

They could use that character to farm gear for characters or to power level their friends or to level up and join the server population.

They would still have to level for 10 levels to gear up and learn the class if they don't know it before they would be in range of the main server population.

You could then take out the exp bonus past level 40. We would see way more people playing

[Gaffin 7.0]

stasis is right, remove the 8 range to 4 50+ and see it thrive

[Squire]

+/- 4

[Pudge]

GMs, just make me an "ooc monitor" - if i see some toxic chat, i'll mute someone. Would be even better if they didn't know they were muted, and just continued to spewn their garbage to only themselves.

eventually maybe they see no one was responding to their cries for attention, and actually stop by themselves, no more mutes required

[Cid]

And if a person is unable or incapable of boxing, be it from hardware, location or whatever, do they receive an equal benefit as someone like you or I that have extra 60 characters that we could use?

Fair means equality for every single person who plays. The American Declaration of Independence holds the line "All men are created equal" yet never mentions slavery and the people who benefitted called it fair and just and tons of other synonyms.

I know that is an extreme example of how fair and equal can be made into relative terms. We can call anything fair and it is quite probable we could convince ourselves it really is fair. Hell, I might even be completely wrong in my assessment of the consequences of boxing, but I know for sure that 100% of the people playing on Red can play one character. 99.9% isn't good enough to change the rule in my opinion, and it might not even be that much.

A lot of international players were getting screwed by lag in TT until recently. If something like that occurs with boxing would you fight to get it fixed for them or would you just ignore their problem like everyone did about the lag and box every second you are ingame?

As long as one person gets left out my principles do not let me condone something. (Not including myself, I do not take myself into consideration.) HB if you were the only person on the server who couldn't box, I would fight and argue to have boxing removed until they fixed your problem or permanently if couldn't not be fixed. I would do the same for almost anyone, even Tune and he is the opposite of just about everything my principles stand for.

Once more, I could be wrong about this whole thing, but I tend to be proven right in time, even when I wish otherwise.

I'll leave the subject be for now. If people cannot see the possibility of dual-boxing going wrong and what that could cause, I don't think anything I say will make much of a difference.

[Cid]

The thing that is important is getting people to stay here and play.

Maybe we should have a one time pass for every new player to just create a level 40.

They could use that character to farm gear for characters or to power level their friends or to level up and join the server population.

They would still have to level for 10 levels to gear up and learn the class if they don't know it before they would be in range of the main server population.

You could then take out the exp bonus past level 40. We would see way more people playing

This isn't really too bad of an idea if done similar to how Blizzard did the Death Knight class. You can instantly be 40, but only on one class and only if your account has a lvl 40 on Blue or Red, or maybe even Hidden Forest.
That would definitely draw some people from Blue. Starting on a new server on WoW was easy and fun when you can start with a 55 DK. A similar feature would bypass most of the groupless levels and set people up with a toon capable of earning all the pp spells will run you for 44+ spells or for an alt so you aren't praying for a cracked staff off a skelly.

I will probably think of a dozen problems with it in time, but I'd choose this over boxing anyday of the week. Any population increase from it would be new or returning players instead of just boxed alts.

[Tradesonred]

Make it that everyone and his mother can reach 51 fast, and from there on remove any xp bonus.

That would make more sense than a straight xp nerf, coupled with a new group xp bonus

But still i think any kind of nerf is a bad idea right now

Maybe after population has tripled, and not a straight up nerf

-------------------

I dont think boxing is a good idea. My 59 shaman or my druid could easily make me wanna give up trying to group on my rogue cuz its easier to park 2 toons in a zone and logging them on at the same time than trying to look for a group. Still it sucks that mainly only dishonest people playing with "their brother" get to box.

[Buhbuh]

I will add that some of you have valid points in regards to the community. Raising the population on red is a server-wide effort. There is only so much we as a staff can do to foster a positive environment for new players.

To be fair, yet critical, there has been a lot our guides and GMs could have done to help the server grow.

I'll tell you one thing: the most vocal people here on these forums are typically the most inaccurate, unintelligent, and biased. 90% of the posts are people coming to the defense of their guild with ad hominems directed at whomever they feel merits it.

Very few here write like you did in your OP, and hardly anyone thinks about these situations critically. I'm not sure if you ever got to skim the VZTZ boards, but the few voices that could actually make sense and talk about something like the adults they currently are were a huge minority.

People don't seem to realize when their post starts with "That's fucking stupid" or "You're an idiot," they look like ten year olds. The sad irony is that GMs on VZTZ gave into the demands of people like that, which consistently compromised the server's integrity (aside from the already terrible coding). Voidd (from VZTZ), for some reason or another, actually went into depth on those boards about how the races should be separated as nature always intended it to be, so naturally, my skepticism for the future of that server was always careening between barely alive and absolute disaster.

I recognize that P99 staff isn't immune to reason, but you need to do a better job of listening to reasonable people. Not only that, you need to make it known when those people are being heard by you. Show that you're involved on the boards when discussions like these are going on and people are making valid points. Not once in a blue moon. Always. You need to treat reasonable people like your electorate. Show support for ideas or things people in the player base say and shitty behavior will decline. Regardless of how you see it, people, on some weird level, admire the staff (otherwise they wouldn't be here). You're the role models here.

People who can't voice their concerns like adults don't deserve influence. It's very simple. If they act like ten year olds, you can be certain they'll blow this place up like one.

[Fame]

To be fair, yet critical, there has been a lot our guides and GMs could have done to help the server grow.

I'll tell you one thing: the most vocal people here on these forums are typically the most inaccurate, unintelligent, and biased. 90% of the posts are people coming to the defense of their guild with ad hominems directed at whomever they feel merits it.

Very few here write like you did in your OP, and hardly anyone thinks about these situations critically. I'm not sure if you ever got to skim the VZTZ boards, but the few voices that could actually make sense and talk about something like the adults they currently are were a huge minority.

People don't seem to realize when their post starts with "That's fucking stupid" or "You're an idiot," they look like ten year olds. The sad irony is that GMs on VZTZ gave into the demands of people like that, which consistently compromised the server's integrity (aside from the already terrible coding). Voidd (from VZTZ), for some reason or another, actually went into depth on those boards about how the races should be separated as nature always intended it to be, so naturally, my skepticism for the future of that server was always careening between barely alive and absolute disaster.

I recognize that P99 staff isn't immune to reason, but you need to do a better job of listening to reasonable people. Not only that, you need to make it known when those people are being heard by you. Show that you're involved on the boards when discussions like these are going on and people are making valid points. Not once in a blue moon. Always. You need to treat reasonable people like your electorate. Show support for ideas or things people in the player base say and shitty behavior will decline. Regardless of how you see it, people, on some weird level, admire the staff (otherwise they wouldn't be here). You're the role models here.

People who can't voice their concerns like adults don't deserve influence. It's very simple. If they act like ten year olds, you can be certain they'll blow this place up like one.

TL;DR but we get it bro, you're better than us

[Buhbuh]

TL;DR but we get it bro, you're better than us

You read it.

[Tradesonred]

I'll tell you one thing: the most vocal people here on these forums are typically the most inaccurate, unintelligent, and biased. 90% of the posts are people coming to the defense of their guild with ad hominems directed at whomever they feel merits it.


Thats basically it. Nihilum was cheerleader of xp loss in pvp for the longest time because it allowed them to sit in raid zones uncontested for months, gearing up.

[BigHurb]

ooc is a good sample of what you run into, hardly a minority.. cause the cheaters have gotten to keep their ill gotten gains

wipe server and keep global.... also someone wipe florida

[runlvlzero]

ooc is a good sample of what you run into, hardly a minority.. cause the cheaters have gotten to keep their ill gotten gains

wipe server and keep global.... also someone wipe florida

I'm in Florida, whats wrong with Florida? Don't you love me hurb?

Hotzones.... The key to fast exp and pvp. Have 3-4 dispersed for levels 1-50 and change them every month.

also this... change nothing... add those... whole new game for some people who like to level alts in hotzones and explore content that people normally avoid, but is great because of hotzone...

runneyeye hotzone, 50% exp bonus for levels 15-35 would be super good... or xorbb, or an outdoor zone like EK or High Hold Pass. Or Lavastorm (which is already pretty good, but lacks a tiny bit of umph in exp for powergamers)

pick a random zone or two near a city bind point.

most people dont' realize they can bind in guk as a good char (paladin) and run between the guards/strafe to guk, more or less safely etc... shit like hz's and few tips would go a long way. It's only a 20 min run to train in FP from grobb. something to do when you ding 25, and need to train that riposte after getting pk'd

Also Flowers of Happiness would love to take young adventurers under their wing in a hotzone like guk!

[Gustoo]

Great text wall.

There should be a huge EXP modifier for groups. Right now if I group with another player, I get less than 50% exp that I was getting before (even at 50+) The penalty for a duo shouldn't be so harsh, and the bonus for a full 6 should be large enough that everyone wants to fill their group no matter what.

There isn't even a discussion about 2 boxxing. It is confirmed bad for server health, and bad in every way. No one has to even worry about that happening here.

EXP hotzone I don't think will really help people too much. If I was grinding I would stay at a trusty good spot than travel across norrath to face mad PVP and uncertainty. It would be good for more sophisticated levelers with friends and stuff on their second toon so I guess it can't really hurt to try it out. Definitely for zones like runnyeye that no one ever goes to, or paw..very good idea.

Along with item loot but we can deal with that later.

I think it is important to think of reasons why someone would want to play red, as opposed to the blue server. Guide Deru is on the right track here..big time. It's too bad red wasn't in better shape when EQmac closed down so we could get some more of those guys.

[dreama1]

why not keep the current xp bonus and add an extra group bonus so it incentivizes grouping but it's not the be all and end all?

You need a healthy population of people before you start forcing people to group..

Also I'd like to note that I presume many new people didn't even know there was an XP bonus on red.. I only got confirmation of it when someone asked about it explicitly... is it written somewhere? If not it should be advertised explicitly

[Clark]

I have thoroughly read everything you have posted and I agree with you on all positions.

+1 post, well though out, good to see our server GM's taking a proactive stance on server issues like these.

[Recycled Children]

Derubael, these are all really bad suggestions.

[Swish]

http://i.imgur.com/K79vmlJ.jpg

Thinking about leveling a cleric...done it on blue solo, and given the server pop when I log in is about 40, how's removing the global XP bonus going to help euro players on the box, as few as we are? :/

[Squire]

Derubael, these are all really bad suggestions.

[Bazia]

yeah honestly, these ideas are awful

[Derubael]

It's got to get worse before it gets better

[Bazia]

As someone who has played since launch with populations of 6, 21, 3, and 530 respectively I can tell you for sure that removing /ooc or reducing exp bonus will seriously damage whatever population that is left.

All of us who have played here for a long time have come to the realization that the population is going to be what it is (mediocre) until Velious is dropped and 140 Nihilum players come back and shit all over everyone.

The only things that might change it are serious policy changes that involve boxing or a wipe that simply are not going to happen.

[Derubael]

Faerie hit the nail on the head with this:

But yeah, back on the exp. It was a mistake giving us anything, because we don't appreciate it and demand more. The current xp bonus wasn't even intended to be permanent, it was something nice Rogean did to make up for extended server downtime. But the red players demanded it stay on and made a big stink, and Rogean decided to let us have it long term. It damaged the server for all the reasons outlined in OP.

XP Bonus for red? Yes. Nearly 400% xp per mob kill from 1-50? No.

[Squire]

fearie also roleplays.

go make a rogue, turn off all chat, and report back on that experience upon reaching level 46.

[Bazia]

Of all people you decide to listen to someone who played casually for like 3 months.

FYI Faerie played at launch when there was no exp bonus and no /ooc.

They promptly quit in less than a month.

Wipe it or leave it pal.

[Squire]

agreed. changes of this nature could only be remotely considered positive if done in conjunction with a wipe and/or launching of a team server. if done haphazardly to the current server you'd simply further damage the already low population, offsetting any potential gains to be seen from velious.

[Derubael]

Of all people you decide to listen to someone who played casually for like 3 months.

FYI Faerie played at launch when there was no exp bonus and no /ooc.

They promptly quit in less than a month.

Wipe it or leave it pal.

That post just summed up my thoughts on that aspect of the subject (XP bonus being too high, being left in for too long, and being a mistake to have been done that way).

I listen to everyone on here and in-game.

go make a rogue, turn off all chat, and report back on that experience upon reaching level 46.

Why would anyone group with a rogue when they can get double the XP solo?

[Fame]

fearie also roleplays.

go make a rogue, turn off all chat, and report back on that experience upon reaching level 46.

lold

[Smedy]

conclusion of thread: get vagina, talk to gms, profit

[evilldacbane]

People say mean things in shout sometimes. Can we disable this as well?

[Not_Kazowi]

Just leave things alone. Why mess with it? We will never have a perfect server environment. I just leveled from 1-50 and was PLed most of the time with twink gear. XP was not that insane. Still takes time and investment.

Don't cater this server to people with no lives or jobs. We are all in our late 20s and 30s. People don't have time anymore to put 60 hours a week into EQ.

Derubael I suggest you make a warrior or another Melee. And level to 50 alone with no ooc on and see what it's like. Then you have 1st hand experience of what it's like here.

[Derubael]

Why would anyone group with a warrior when they can get double the XP solo?

[Recycled Children]

It's got to get worse before it gets better.

No, it doesn't. It absolutely does not need to get worse. Who is asking for these changes? Like 10 people out of the 100 or so that play consistently on this server? Great let's take the opinion of the minority and put those changes in effect. Unless you have another 100 people saying the same things to you these points are moot.

Where are these people everyone thinks are going to start pouring in if sweeping changes are made by overzealous GMs? Who is waiting for it to take twice as long to level and wants it to be almost near impossible to find a group on a low population server? Why are people anti-boxing?

No amount of change is going to give this box any significant population boost. The people aren't there and even if new people do come to this server they'll quickly discover that the PVP mechanics of EQ are severely flawed and requires you to surmount a huge learning curve. So why not make good with the people you have rather than trying to appease a fictitious group of new members?

[dreama1]

why not keep the current xp bonus and add an extra group bonus so it incentivizes grouping but it's not the be all and end all?


Also I'd like to note that I presume many new people didn't even know there was an XP bonus on red.. I only got confirmation of it when someone asked about it explicitly... is it written somewhere? If not it should be advertised explicitly

[RoguePhantom]

I know im late to the Party on this thread, but here's my take.

XP Bonus. Yes, it is a short term solution. However, short term solutions only make sense, when there is a long term solution in the works. What is that solution? What is the grandiose idea?

The Spikes in population are due to one thing. People looking at Red as Blue 2.0. So the blue folks who want a fresh start away from the "Nihilums of Blue" come to red in hopes of getting Levels and Pixels in a server that isn't super contested for raids. The evidence of this fact: http://www.project1999.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2881417

However, there is one underlying factor that causes the people who come here for the XP, to ultimately leave. And it is NOT because XP/Loot comes too quick. It is the plain and simple fact that Red is a cesspool. The people here are assholes/sadists/masochists/retards/whatever word you want to use; and it drives away any non-masochist/same word list that would even think about playing here.

Just look at the threads. People spamming phones, people scamming and stripping characters, it is pretty much the dregs of society... running the roost. Hell, you have people DDoSing the server because of a Ban... Just think about that for a second, the people here, will commit actual criminal activities, because they can't play a 15 year old game. And you wonder why the vast majority of people who have played Red did not stick around?

So, in my opinion, ignore the XP Bonus and the Global OOC "problems" and focus on the real problem. Cleaning up the population. Because no matter what you do, they are the ones that are keeping the server at the levels it is at.

[Faerie]

fearie also roleplays.

lol

Of all people you decide to listen to someone who played casually for like 3 months.

FYI Faerie played at launch when there was no exp bonus and no /ooc.

They promptly quit in less than a month.

I played for about 3 months at server start, and a bit more than that on my druid. But how does this discredit my opinion? I'm one of the people that has never been level 60; if I were only concerned for myself I would probably want the exp bonus to stay in.

It's truly a shame that so many people have such strong feelings about their EZ mode solo exp. When the xp changes do go in, you'll really damage the pop numbers with your poor attitudes. I foresee the server suffering quite a bit from your self-fulfilling prophecies, because you would rather be right with a dead server than wrong with a better one. Why you guys scared of a little classic EQ? Anything bluebie can do I can do better, and that includes pve.

Deru, was any progress ever made on the transfer/copy of bluebies? That would need to be done at the right time, when red has decent numbers (to lend some confidence to the would-be transfers), bluebies are tired of their overcrowded endgame, and red's ruleset is in a good way. But beyond forcing PvP on the bluebies, which is the optimal solution, this is the only way I really see the server being helped in a meaningful way.

[Sturgeon]

I'm happy with any changes that result in more population. I will miss OOC chat fo sho since I always tend to end up in empty zones and with no guild to join its quiet but any chance to get Red99 to be anywhere near P99's population I'm all for it.

[HippoNipple]

Has HB purchased the server double the current exp rate yet? If not who cares about leveling on red99. Please let me know when this is implemented so I can increase the 2x exp rate to 4x, otherwise tldr.

[Twainz]

So by making the XP better for duoing you basically make people like Lite and Brainz happy because they can just box multiple toons to 60 without a chance of being banned.

[Stasis01]

I vote we remove EXP bonus so literally no one new will play here, and people will not want to level alts.

We must also listen to Faerie, Kergan, Bazia and whoever the fuck else nobodies like to come here and make me want to strangle them with their fucking retardation.

[Stasis01]

lol



I played for about 3 months at server start, and a bit more than that on my druid. But how does this discredit my opinion? I'm one of the people that has never been level 60; if I were only concerned for myself I would probably want the exp bonus to stay in.

It's truly a shame that so many people have such strong feelings about their EZ mode solo exp. When the xp changes do go in, you'll really damage the pop numbers with your poor attitudes. I foresee the server suffering quite a bit from your self-fulfilling prophecies, because you would rather be right with a dead server than wrong with a better one. Why you guys scared of a little classic EQ? Anything bluebie can do I can do better, and that includes pve.

Deru, was any progress ever made on the transfer/copy of bluebies? That would need to be done at the right time, when red has decent numbers (to lend some confidence to the would-be transfers), bluebies are tired of their overcrowded endgame, and red's ruleset is in a good way. But beyond forcing PvP on the bluebies, which is the optimal solution, this is the only way I really see the server being helped in a meaningful way.

Hey u got 4 months experience soloing as a Druid here and not delving into any end game raid scene/PVP? You sound like a Chewie level expert to me, let's get this retard writing some new Red99 policy pls.

[Squire]

Why would anyone group with a rogue when they can get double the XP solo?

why would anyone group with you when there is no anyone?

the grouping bonuses dont make a difference if there is nobody in your level range to group with anywhere, not that'd you'd know, because you shut off OOC and now you can't even reach out to confirm the sad fact that you're a sole nub in a scrub wasteland like will smith in i am legend except assbergers instead of zombies.

[Faerie]

Hey u got 4 months experience soloing as a Druid here and not delving into any end game raid scene/PVP? You sound like a Chewie level expert to me, let's get this retard writing some new Red99 policy pls.

I would have joined a raiding guild if they weren't all full of fefs.

Anyway, there's a lot more to EQ than endgame. I think this attitude is part of what hurt the server so badly; everyone treats the game as though it begins at level 52 :/

[Stasis01]

So you solo'd as a druid, I raped you at a GM event EASILY, you quit a week or two later.

Yeah there's more to Everquest than endgame, there are generally lots of NOOBS, you being one of them.

Please stop talking, you really ruin it for people who know what they are talking about.

No one plays Red99 for the journey, if you did, you should be on blue.

[Faerie]

So you solo'd as a druid, I raped you at a GM event EASILY, you quit a week or two later.

Yeah there's more to Everquest than endgame, there are generally lots of NOOBS, you being one of them.

Please stop talking, you really ruin it for people who know what they are talking about.

No one plays Red99 for the journey, if you did, you should be on blue.

Ouch Stasis, that really cuts me deep. Please try to be gentle, I'm sensitive.

I haven't been 60 or in an endgame guild here, but I still don't understand how that invalidates my opinion. If you're looking for endgame experience, I raided on live. And my PvP experience was pretty intense as a strict elf purist into my 50s.

[HippoNipple]

So you solo'd as a druid, I raped you at a GM event EASILY, you quit a week or two later.

Yeah there's more to Everquest than endgame, there are generally lots of NOOBS, you being one of them.

Please stop talking, you really ruin it for people who know what they are talking about.

No one plays Red99 for the journey, if you did, you should be on blue.

This wasn't poetically put but it is the truth of this server. People have this ideal environment that brings them back to the days of 1999 and this isn't a server or time period that is going to recreate that. The people wanting the exp taken out are those that don't intend on ever leveling a character again and/or have already quit the server.

Some new players to the server have joined RD in the last week and have been helped out to make it through those tough levels. If people join the server and need help it is given. There is no huge influx of new players into this server, if there was then a normal exp rate would be fine.

You talk about it getting worse before it gets better but if people leave and it gets to 50 population there isn't going to be a huge influx of players ever. There will be groups of 1-5 that join the server and there won't be enough to group up and level and others will have less incentive to PL them up to 50 with decreased exp bonus.

There will never be a good environment from levels 1-50 on this server. The only thing keeping players around is the light at the end of the tunnel. Those that try to recreate the magic of levels 1-50 on this server don't play here and don't understand the reality of what red99 is.

[Stasis01]

So you haven't played here long, never made max level, never contested, and really have no experience behind your opinion other than soloing empty zones as a druid.

Cool story.

[Squire]

the fact that you don't understand why that fact invalidates your input only further invalidates it.

[HippoNipple]

Ouch Stasis, that really cuts me deep. Please try to be gentle, I'm sensitive.

I haven't been 60 or in an endgame guild here, but I still don't understand how that invalidates my opinion. If you're looking for endgame experience, I raided on live. And my PvP experience was pretty intense as a strict elf purist into my 50s.

The point is you are proponent of changing the server back to the state it was in when you played a solo class, never grouped, and quit soon after because of the grind. You are fighting for a server experience that will never exist on red99 and in the process of doing that possibly ruining what red99 can provide.

[Faerie]

You talk about it getting worse before it gets better but if people leave and it gets to 50 population there isn't going to be a huge influx of players ever.

This is the problem, and its one that increasing the xp bonus in the first place caused. Now that we've been poisoned with EZ mode, a lot of us feel like we'll suffer without it. Exp bonus is like a drug we're now addicted to, and people are afraid to quit it because they fear the withdrawal and reality.

The point is you are proponent of changing the server back to the state it was in when you played a solo class, never grouped, and quit soon after because of the grind. You are fighting for a server experience that will never exist on red99 and in the process of doing that possibly ruining what red99 can provide.

I grouped a bit, when people would ask me. And I leveled my cleric from around 34 - upper 40s during low pop, grouping quite a bit. I was helping to lead a leveling guild as well, and a lot of my time was spent PLing people.

But that's all beside the point. We're discussing the xp bonus here, not my qualifications as a gamer.

People will leave when the exp bonus is reduced, and this is why I suggested not even telling you guys and doing it slowly over time. It's really the best option, when you consider how much we love drama.

[dreama1]

I have to agree with some of these people here. If it is a pvp server, the focus should be on pvp not pve..

Toxic environment is unfortunately an inherent part of pvp. Leveling on a pvp server should be secondary not primary focus.. if people want to make friends they can go to blue..

[Squire]

This is the problem, and its one that increasing the xp bonus in the first place caused. Now that we've been poisoned with EZ mode, a lot of us feel like we'll suffer without it. Exp bonus is like a drug we're now addicted to, and people are afraid to quit it because they fear the withdrawal and reality.



I grouped a bit, when people would ask me. And I leveled my cleric from around 34 - upper 40s during low pop, grouping quite a bit. I was helping to lead a leveling guild as well, and a lot of my time was spent PLing people.

But that's all beside the point. We're discussing the xp bonus here, not my qualifications as a gamer.

People will leave when the exp bonus is reduced, and this is why I suggested not even telling you guys and doing it slowly over time. It's really the best option, when you consider how much we love drama.

http://oi60.tinypic.com/fbdez9.jpg

go away.

[pharmakos]

don't change global OOC and EXP rates at the same time

change one variable at a time or you won't know which of the two attempted fixes actually worked.

[HippoNipple]

This is the problem, and its one that increasing the xp bonus in the first place caused. Now that we've been poisoned with EZ mode, a lot of us feel like we'll suffer without it. Exp bonus is like a drug we're now addicted to, and people are afraid to quit it because they fear the withdrawal and reality.



I grouped a bit, when people would ask me. And I leveled my cleric from around 34 - upper 40s during low pop, grouping quite a bit. I was helping to lead a leveling guild as well, and a lot of my time was spent PLing people.

But that's all beside the point. We're discussing the xp bonus here, not my qualifications as a gamer.

People will leave when the exp bonus is reduced, and this is why I suggested not even telling you guys and doing it slowly over time. It's really the best option, when you consider how much we love drama.

The exp bonus brought the population from about 20 to 150. What is the problem? The resists still suck on this server and Velious is about to come out. Why would they focus on exp bonus when it has been one of the few catalysts to increase the population?

[Derubael]

Not completely removing the XP bonus, dramatically lowering it and adding a group bonus.

Not completely removing global OOC, modifying the way it works to cut down on the bullshit.

Level range +/- 4

Will take a little while to see a positive effect, but it will definitely be there. 400% xp bonus is like a poison for the server.

Smedy, swish, and our other europals, I am sorry :( You guys are the only ones this will really hit hard, and it will take longer for you to see a positive result because of your playtime.

inb4 you're gonna kill the server, etc.

[Tassador]

Exp bonus is at 400? I just thought I was fucking good at leveling ;-(

[runlvlzero]

I have to agree with some of these people here. If it is a pvp server, the focus should be on pvp not pve..

Toxic environment is unfortunately an inherent part of pvp. Leveling on a pvp server should be secondary not primary focus.. if people want to make friends they can go to blue..

PvP is an addition to EQ which is primarily a PvE game, even here. That's like saying you shouldn't fix the body on a car, only focus on the neat shiny rims u got.

EQ isn't supposed to be a Player (singular) vs anything game either. It's supposed to be a team oriented Multiplayer game. So looking at Player vs Environment is a dumb way to even play. Your doing it wrong. Fast ez solo exp is enabling this.

[Labanen]

Finally had time to read through the thread. Derubael i agree with you on the ooc part.

But the xp bonus is needed to stay in... it may not need to be all the way up at 400 % or whatever you say its at atm. But when the server is this top heavy, despite it being far from classic, then the game in fact doesnt start until 52. And we need to bring new players up there.

In an ideal world, your arguments for removing the xp bonus are valid, but this server is far from ideal. 95 % of the server pop is 51 or higher, i even think fearie made it past 50. And I dont think it will help us to drag out the pain before new players can interact with the others. Its a multiplayer game, even more than blue server is imho.

I like a couple of the other ideas proposed, mostly hotzones, giving the few lowbies an increased chance to meet would help. There is a good chance though that any hotzone will be unrest 2.0, ei. the place where all the lvl 20 rogues with epics are camped.

I strongly disagree that it has to get worse before it can get better, it WAS much worse and it has been alot better. Since i was running around on eurotime with 3-4 others on the entire server we re up to 10-20 times as many. Ride some of the good things that helped us get back up there instead of butchering them... we do not want single digits again.

Also, Stasis, you re too angry calm the fuck down. Wouldnt matter if you gave people the recipe for eternal life or the cure for cancer, but when its delivered with so much anger, noones gonna read it.

[Fame]

http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1345896079150_9713431.png

[LulzSect]

-+4 lvl rng is going in???

[Derubael]

None of these are confirmed, it's my personal viewpoint until someone else on the staff chimes in.

[Squire]

Once all of Alecta's core mechanics are fixed then engage in social experimentation, I think they only sure-fire improvement spoken of thus far would be +/- 4.

If you want to implement grouping bonuses and removal of global, do so upon launch of a new red server, be it teams of ffa. THAT makes sense. Crippling this already limping horse makes none.

I'm no p99 historian, so correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the population like 25 people without exp bonuses and global ooc, and a series of changes were implemented which brought said bonuses, communication, YT among other things which brings us to our current 100-200 pop?

Why would removing these things help?

[Hatwer]

As a new player, the server would have felt totally empty and dead if not for Yellowtext and OOC.

The drama is encouraging - when the top guilds are all slaughtering each other over spawns, it's great. Jumping into that is why I'm leveling up.

I don't think 'hiding' the nature of the server from new players is a good long term plan for growth, either. If someone doesn't like it at level 10, they definitely won't like it at 60. Whether it's on these forums, IRC channels or in game, the truth will come out eventually.

Lastly, I always liked +/-4 on Rallos but it did often create pocket-healer issues. Maybe consider having certain common level 50+ zones being more open? If the dynamic code is still in, that solves this problem too.

[chu]

OOC and "truth" shouldn't be in the same sentence
YT is great tho, scoreboard doesn't lie
drug tests don't lie

[Awwalike]

mite as well turn off red box if xp nerf happens

[Squire]

when alecta says 'done!' start a seperate red server with

+/- 4
group bonuses
global ooc viewable for 46+ if ffa or not if teams
item loot
give places like runnyeye a zem

profit.

[Sturgeon]

Not completely removing the XP bonus, dramatically lowering it and adding a group bonus.

Not completely removing global OOC, modifying the way it works to cut down on the bullshit.

Level range +/- 4

Will take a little while to see a positive effect, but it will definitely be there. 400% xp bonus is like a poison for the server.

Smedy, swish, and our other europals, I am sorry :( You guys are the only ones this will really hit hard, and it will take longer for you to see a positive result because of your playtime.

inb4 you're gonna kill the server, etc.

Level range, hell yes.

+/- 8 would be preferred though with pocket healing being a possible issue but won't know unless we try it.

ZEM for places like Runnyeye and BB would be nice and get the low level PvP action back.

[evilldacbane]

People say mean things on the forums a lot. Can we disable this as well? It deters a lot of new players from sticking around.

[Hatwer]

I think the server just needs better marketing. Beastagor's recent 2v5 video had me hyped for days. Make more of that and people will come.

[HippoNipple]

+/- 60

Sure would help get rid of the need for 15 SKs

[Faerie]

Maybe if we donated enough the devs could pay people to play?

[Kergan]

Will take a little while to see a positive effect, but it will definitely be there. 400% xp bonus is like a poison for the server.


Curious to hear your logic on this point in particular.

[HippoNipple]

Maybe if we donated enough the devs could pay people to play?

It would be a form of Project 1999 quantitative easing. Get the economy going to spend more on RMT.

[Derubael]

Curious to hear your logic on this point in particular.

It's in the OP.

[Kergan]

It's in the OP.

Fair enough. I guess I disagree with some of the fundamentals behind it though.

For example:

It's like flying a model airplane a couple times, and then being thrown into the cockpit of a 747 and being told 'hey, its np, you'll figure it out. sucker.' Fortunately on this server we have some experienced pilots who take these people under their wings and teach them the basics, but I'd argue these are fundamental skills and knowledge that should be learned long before someone reaches the train pain that is 52-60.

I doubt very much we have a huge population of people who have never played EQ. Nearly every one of us is here based on nostalgia and to recapture a time in gaming that we enjoyed. I agree life gets brutal at 52 but wouldn't a +/- 4 be a better solution this problem? By the time you hit 56 you've invested significant time. Exp bonus or not, 54 is brutal.

These are the experiences that form bonds and keep players coming back for more, and having a ridiculous XP modifier essentially nullifies their presence on Red 99. Being thrown immediately into the teamspeak/vent-srs-fckin-bsns-and-dont-u-fcking-dare-fckup-or-we'll-fck-your-life-and-everyone-will-shame-you-forever trakanonspawn pvp 2 weeks into rolling on the server does not retain players. While this is definitely fun, I imagine the people who really want to be in that environment on this server are already in it. Not only that, but the people who DO want to be in that environment will be playing on the server longer, simply because it will take longer for them to get there.

You are DRASTICALLY overstating how fast you can get to 52+ as a legitimate new player not being plvl'd. If I felt it took 2 weeks for a semi serious, untwinked, unplvl'd character to make level 55 or so when you are going to contest Trakanon then I'd be much more inclined to agree with your other points. Realistically playing 2-3 hours 5 days a week it is going to take over a month at minimum.

What I will say is you do level at a brisk rate...then you hit the point where the exp bonus shuts off. 51-60 feels like an eternity. Couple that with the fact you're only seeing the goonsquad gankers when you hit 50+ and I can see how people just say "fuck it I'm out" when they hit 52 or 53. The way it is setup now you spend the vast majority of your EQ experience in the absolutely shittiest set of levels where the exp rate grinds to a halt and you're being attacked constantly.

I'd say if you cut the bonus in half but made it count 1-60 where new people didn't feel blueballed every time they try to grind exp post 50 might help. And +/- 4 of course, shits classic.

[HippoNipple]

Fair enough. I guess I disagree with some of the fundamentals behind it though.

For example:

It's like flying a model airplane a couple times, and then being thrown into the cockpit of a 747 and being told 'hey, its np, you'll figure it out. sucker.' Fortunately on this server we have some experienced pilots who take these people under their wings and teach them the basics, but I'd argue these are fundamental skills and knowledge that should be learned long before someone reaches the train pain that is 52-60.

I doubt very much we have a huge population of people who have never played EQ. Nearly every one of us is here based on nostalgia and to recapture a time in gaming that we enjoyed. I agree life gets brutal at 52 but wouldn't a +/- 4 be a better solution this problem? By the time you hit 56 you've invested significant time. Exp bonus or not, 54 is brutal.

These are the experiences that form bonds and keep players coming back for more, and having a ridiculous XP modifier essentially nullifies their presence on Red 99. Being thrown immediately into the teamspeak/vent-srs-fckin-bsns-and-dont-u-fcking-dare-fckup-or-we'll-fck-your-life-and-everyone-will-shame-you-forever trakanonspawn pvp 2 weeks into rolling on the server does not retain players. While this is definitely fun, I imagine the people who really want to be in that environment on this server are already in it. Not only that, but the people who DO want to be in that environment will be playing on the server longer, simply because it will take longer for them to get there.

You are DRASTICALLY overstating how fast you can get to 52+ as a legitimate new player not being plvl'd. If I felt it took 2 weeks for a semi serious, untwinked, unplvl'd character to make level 55 or so when you are going to contest Trakanon then I'd be much more inclined to agree with your other points. Realistically playing 2-3 hours 5 days a week it is going to take over a month at minimum.

What I will say is you do level at a brisk rate...then you hit the point where the exp bonus shuts off. 51-60 feels like an eternity. Couple that with the fact you're only seeing the goonsquad gankers when you hit 50+ and I can see how people just say "fuck it I'm out" when they hit 52 or 53. The way it is setup now you spend the vast majority of your EQ experience in the absolutely shittiest set of levels where the exp rate grinds to a halt and you're being attacked constantly.

I'd say if you cut the bonus in half but made it count 1-60 where new people didn't feel blueballed every time they try to grind exp post 50 might help. And +/- 4 of course, shits classic.

The devs make such drastic changes to the server without even understanding what the game play is like. Exping on red is still tougher than on blue with the 2x experience. If you are in a prime leveling spot you are at least spending half your time pvping or on corps runs. There are always level 60's roaming around with 0 interest in getting experience and are just there to help their team by holding the opposing team back. There is 0 going afk. You can't sit around and aoe all of chardok in a half hour for easy levels. If you want to play it safe and get any sort of steady experience you need 2-4 level 60's watching your back in a prime leveling spot or you have to exp somewhere horrible getting about 1/4 the exp of a prime spot.

A full group of level 50-54's can be wiped by 1-2 level 60's if engaged during a PvE encounter. It is so easy to disrupt the flow of exp gain and waste 30-60 minutes.

Dev comes on here one day and looks at the formula and says, wow 2x the experience, this server is full if whiners. In reality the exp bonus still doesn't make the 50-60 grind easy and the game is fine as it is in this regard.

[runlvlzero]

The devs make such drastic changes to the server without even understanding what the game play is like. Exping on red is still tougher than on blue with the 2x experience. If you are in a prime leveling spot you are at least spending half your time pvping or on corps runs. There are always level 60's roaming around with 0 interest in getting experience and are just there to help their team by holding the opposing team back. There is 0 going afk. You can't sit around and aoe all of chardok in a half hour for easy levels. If you want to play it safe and get any sort of steady experience you need 2-4 level 60's watching your back in a prime leveling spot or you have to exp somewhere horrible getting about 1/4 the exp of a prime spot.

A full group of level 50-54's can be wiped by 1-2 level 60's if engaged during a PvE encounter. It is so easy to disrupt the flow of exp gain and waste 30-60 minutes.

Dev comes on here one day and looks at the formula and says, wow 2x the experience, this server is full if whiners. In reality the exp bonus still doesn't make the 50-60 grind easy and the game is fine as it is in this regard.

Me and gobbles had no prob chasing 60's out of lower guk in a duo at 51-54 (pally exp is stupidly slow).

+/- 4 levels and the exp could never move and people could have plenty fun even if it took 1 week per level (which at 55+) is like the difference of 100hp, 100 mana, and a few decent spells. Slightly better resists.

+/- 8 is not a prob for pros but it lets douchebags grief the fuck out of newbz

Would a lot of flowers be sad they couldn't attack 60's in guk pre 56... yeah

But they would also be able to go level in KC without everyone nutting all over their celebrity.

[HippoNipple]

Me and gobbles had no prob chasing 60's out of lower guk in a duo at 51-54 (pally exp is stupidly slow).

+/- 4 levels and the exp could never move and people could have plenty fun even if it took 1 week per level (which at 55+) is like the difference of 100hp, 100 mana, and a few decent spells. Slightly better resists.

+/- 8 is not a prob for pros but it lets douchebags grief the fuck out of newbz

Would a lot of flowers be sad they couldn't attack 60's in guk pre 56... yeah

But they would also be able to go level in KC without everyone nutting all over their celebrity.

Spells, abilities, gear, levels don't mean everything but they are important. What is most important is having the jump on the other player and knowing what they are trying to accomplish. If a person is trying to level or camp something they have a huge disadvantage vs someone sitting there waiting for an opportune time to attack them. This is why leveling is tougher since there are wipes all the time.

I was talking more about exp groups and not the ability to gank a level 60 with a 54 and a 51 out of range healer as he is trying to camp a SMR for his epic. This is completely irrelevant to any exp discussion.

[big mouth chew]

WTS SMR MANY AVAIL

[HippoNipple]

The main point is I think a 2x bonus on exp 50-60 still makes it harder to level to 60 than on blue. You mention 1 level a week? That is awful. Can't you do that in 3-4 hours on blue with an AoE group?

Red is tougher than blue currently, nothing needs to be changed.

[Hatwer]

PvP often leads to exp deaths, even when it's not intended grief. Shit just happens during PvP.

There are also less clerics, necros, druids and wizards to help speed up corpse runs and resses. You just have to do without, and that means leveling takes more time.

[Not_Kazowi]

Not completely removing the XP bonus, dramatically lowering it and adding a group bonus.


Why dramatically decrease it? Honestly it's not that fast really

[Twainz]

The main point is I think a 2x bonus on exp 50-60 still makes it harder to level to 60 than on blue. You mention 1 level a week? That is awful. Can't you do that in 3-4 hours on blue with an AoE group?

Red is tougher than blue currently, nothing needs to be changed.

8 Hours played to get lvl 60 on a twinked/PLed/AOE Group Ogre Warrior. Even camped a full VP key at lvl 55. I think I hit 60 on Twainz after 30 days played and 14 days played on Tyva.

[dreama1]

Derubael,

What's wrong with leaving it the same, and incentivizing grouping by adding a bonus?

People will still prefer to group but they don't have to rely on them if there are not enough people. The people who level quickly are the ones who already have toons on this server and are twinked.. The only ones that will be hurt by it are actual newbies who don't have the same thing.

Also, if other people have valid points, why are you only personally thanking people that agree with your propos?

[Squire]

Derubael,

What's wrong with leaving it the same, and incentivizing grouping by adding a bonus?

People will still prefer to group but they don't have to rely on them if there are not enough people. The people who level quickly are the ones who already have toons on this server and are twinked.. The only ones that will be hurt by it are actual newbies who don't have the same thing.

Also, if other people have valid points, why are you only personally thanking people that agree with your propos?

wisdom.

[Sturgeon]

XP is harder fo sho on Red99. Usually you get roflstomped trying to grind which leads you to remote places for grinding not to mention some even join stacked guilds to avoid being ganked during said grind. Leave the XP the way it is or at least leave it for 50-60

[Tradesonred]

why would anyone group with you when there is no anyone?

the grouping bonuses dont make a difference if there is nobody in your level range to group with anywhere, not that'd you'd know, because you shut off OOC and now you can't even reach out to confirm the sad fact that you're a sole nub in a scrub wasteland like will smith in i am legend except assbergers instead of zombies.

Thats what derubael doesnt get.

I dont understand how he came to the conclusion that suddenly people who log in to a dead zone (me playing in crushbone, every time) and forced to solo, you cut down their xp in half and theyre going to go oh shit man, im glad im now leveling half as fast, gonna stick around.

Just zone in crushbone derubael, what groups?

[Tradesonred]

If velious brings in 500 people regularly, maybe try it as an experiment, but i dont think xp should be nerfed and then devs peace out on this for months.

You need to monitor the population, and when the population tanks as it surely will, move xp back to where it was.

[Tongpow]

hope they change their minds on this, just rolled on red looks like i might be too late to the party

[Colgate]

yeah lowering exp in any fashion p retarded idea

[Tradesonred]

hope they change their minds on this, just rolled on red looks like i might be too late to the party

Stick it out man, velious gonna bring dat pop influx. Join a guild, no matter what i think of guilds on server, i think its safe to say everyone honestly wants a population influx so youll get some form of help whatever crew you pick.

[Sturgeon]

hope they change their minds on this, just rolled on red looks like i might be too late to the party

Same. I'm still a neckbeard and will play though but I've only seen someone in my zones when someone made an alt and ran through zone to get Druid pick up.

[Tubben]

I am still shocked, that Derubal seems to believe that lowering the xp bonus will help the server. There arent groups who will form strong bonds because they suddenly xp lower.

Derubal, you should create an untwinked character on red99 and level him to 51, and then tell me how many groups you found.

Ok, i am an european, i cant speak for the east time zone, but while i play there are maximal 100 people serverwide online and i bet 90 of them are 50+. I had a group ONCE. The rest of the time i just run solo through the world.

Untwinked you still need plenty of time to reach 50+, and you are forced to play an class who can solo. Lowering the xp bonus wont do any good for the server. But well, just do it and watch the result.

I said it before, you should up the xp bonus even more, so people reach 51 in no time (while removing the cost for spells up to 51), so the playerbase is at 51. There groups will happen.

Just log on, use your guide powers and watch the levelspread while offtime and while primetime, and then tell me how many groups 1-50 COULD happen if people group in levelranges up to 5 level, BELOW level 50.

But please remove FoH chars from this, simply no one will group with them anyway (And they wont group with any other). Also keep in mind that Nihilum wont group with RD and several other guilds.

[Kergan]

Well, to defend Derubael a little bit here when you're approaching a big issue it's best to have solutions to deploy in both the short and long term.

Reducing exp rate may be a long term solution, but I believe it to be extremely detrimental in the short term.

We have lots of suggestions for short term fixes to see if we can start the population growth. Would it not be a better idea to attempt those first to see if we can create an environment where you can reliably find groups before doing the exp changes outlined in the OP?

[Tradesonred]

Theres not going to be a good long term if short term the population keeps spiraling down and it snowballs into less and less people logging in. People whove been playing here since 2011 have seen the population dip down as xp is nerfed, multiple times.

Its not rocket science

[dreama1]

I am still shocked, that Derubal seems to believe that lowering the xp bonus will help the server. There arent groups who will form strong bonds because they suddenly xp lower.

Derubal, you should create an untwinked character on red99 and level him to 51, and then tell me how many groups you found.

Ok, i am an european, i cant speak for the east time zone, but while i play there are maximal 100 people serverwide online and i bet 90 of them are 50+. I had a group ONCE. The rest of the time i just run solo through the world.

Untwinked you still need plenty of time to reach 50+, and you are forced to play an class who can solo. Lowering the xp bonus wont do any good for the server. But well, just do it and watch the result.

I said it before, you should up the xp bonus even more, so people reach 51 in no time (while removing the cost for spells up to 51), so the playerbase is at 51. There groups will happen.

Just log on, use your guide powers and watch the levelspread while offtime and while primetime, and then tell me how many groups 1-50 COULD happen if people group in levelranges up to 5 level, BELOW level 50.

But please remove FoH chars from this, simply no one will group with them anyway (And they wont group with any other). Also keep in mind that Nihilum wont group with RD and several other guilds.

I agree with this; the server is top heavy - that is a fact.

Stunting people's progression will end up with new players seeing less pvp because they won't be able to level due to not being able to find groups a) because no ooc serverwide b) there are no people to group with.

Taking a sample size of 30 chars and saying 10 were new people is hardly scientific proof of a booming population. A better estimate would be the population of people from 5-35..

[runlvlzero]

WTS SMR MANY AVAIL

Lol, this is why I love Chewie.

And yes Hippo, (actually I was in range both times) but, yes, the grind from 52-60 is super brutal here. TBH the exp scaling should be reversed --- slow at 1-50 and 500x at 59. Because that's the levels everyone needs it... and those are the levels that mean the least in terms of end game pvp and only matter for killing dragons and gods. I'm not saying pvp from 50-60 is dumb. I'm saying that those levels make less of a difference vs gear giving out +10 stats. Or high dps weapons. In groups everyone can run with chloro etc...

TBH people don't learn to play conservatively here to. They use up all their mana and hp fighting mobs just for 2% faster leveling overall. So those wipes can be avoided if people pulled more carefully and thoughtfully, saught out and engaged pvp to ensure they wouldn't be jumped before pulling mobs etc... or at least get visual site of other players instead of ignoring that they are on who.

Pro's stop what they are doing when they see people in zone, and someone in group scouts it out, they decide if they want to attack or play nice, before waiting to get engaged.

Fast/slow EXP can't change stupid.

[Tongpow]

slow at 1-50 and 500x at 59.

you can't be serious dude

[runlvlzero]

you can't be serious dude

Yep brutally fuckin serious. I started raiding GoD content on a 55 clr on live.

The 5 levels helped a lot, but it wasn't a big deal because my 2-4 CH's and single group heal before AoE splat is what enabled the guild to progress. Did the tanks and most melee dps need 60 and proper gear progression to be useful, yes, but not really so for the rest of the classes. Trak doesn't require 60's to kill.

Fuckin levels are stupid in the high end and they wreck the journey in the low end. It's part of mudflation and why the game got stale, fell flat on it's face when the level cap got upped every other expansion. Every expac the level cap was upped it sucked hardcore life out of the game.

To further simplify things for you - the normal grind form 1-50 was the sweet spot and things moved along at just the right rate. After that, and the long grind to 60 is bad. As it is exponentially longer. Unless people bard kite or power level it. Killing that sweet 1-50 experience to make 50-60 a tiny bit faster is bad. Just make 50-60 fast or fucking irrelevant.

[dreama1]

I wish people would stop assuming how other people want to play the game. Just because you play(ed) a certain way doesn't mean everyone else wants to..

Personally, I could care less about leveling or raiding, I just want to pvp. If i cared about the other stuff there are other servers for that.

[runlvlzero]

I wish people would stop assuming how other people want to play the game. Just because you play(ed) a certain way doesn't mean everyone else wants to..

Personally, I could care less about leveling or raiding, I just want to pvp. If i cared about the other stuff there are other servers for that.

Hey do you want other people to pvp with? you might want to attract them to your server by caring about how they play... cause the majority of us don't take the fastest route to 60 just to grief other people.

.... it's pretty straight forward.

[dreama1]

Hey do you want other people to pvp with? you might want to attract them to your server by caring about how they play... cause the majority of us don't take the fastest route to 60 just to grief other people.

.... it's pretty straight forward.

You mad, heaux? So now pvp on a pvp server is griefing. Lol.

[runlvlzero]

You mad, heaux? So now pvp on a pvp server is griefing. Lol.

It's kinda all I heard whenever I joined RD TS...

Since when do you have to be level 60 to pvp? Amiright? just pvp bro. love life. Join FoH

[Faerie]

Making untwinked warrior. Dark elf, gnome, wood elf or iksar? Hmm... this is always so hard.

[runlvlzero]

Making untwinked warrior. Dark elf, gnome, wood elf or iksar? Hmm... this is always so hard.

Dark Elf hardest, gnome overdone, Iksar actually viable for awhile.

If female, Dark Elf, cause otherwise you will hate your pixels after awhile.

[Faerie]

Dark Elf hardest, gnome overdone, Iksar actually viable for awhile.

If female, Dark Elf, cause otherwise you will hate your pixels after awhile.

I think I'd call gnome hardest of those, 'cause no hide/regen. Stat difference seems negligible. Who's a gnome warrior here?

[runlvlzero]

I think I'd call gnome hardest of those, 'cause no hide/regen. Stat difference seems negligible. Who's a gnome warrior here?

They chickened out and quit, so no one right now. It's just the most common underdog warrior.

Dark elfs have decent stats, but weak sta and str. Hide overrated, and I think gnomes actually have better stats than DE, better sta, str, and dex.

[Faerie]

They chickened out and quit, so no one right now. It's just the most common underdog warrior.

Dark elfs have decent stats, but weak sta and str. Hide overrated, and I think gnomes actually have better stats than DE, better sta, str, and dex.

Yeah dark elves have objectively worst warrior stats. Hide is so not overrated for a warrior though, you crazy.

It's gonna take me all night to decide lol.

[Tradesonred]

Faerie should get an in-game title to celebrate all the horribad suggestions she makes.

[runlvlzero]

Yeah dark elves have objectively worst warrior stats. Hide is so not overrated for a warrior though, you crazy.

It's gonna take me all night to decide lol.

If your a sadist you can worship Innoruuk and be KOS everywhere.

Gnomes get Bertoxxolous and Brell (I actually like Brell). And they are super small. A big bonus in places like Sola or Solb.

Both races can wear dwarven ringmail. Which is viable in pvp over a fungi past level 30 IMO.

I don't think Iksar get dwarven ring. It's all quest armor (lots of boring foraging) or finding really odd items. MR is probably really rough on an Iksar.

Tier'Dal racial armor is super cool. But super hard to farm for. And statwise... not that great. But good enough in pvp.

[Marglar]

global ooc change = good idea. it really does drive people away when they see that kind of tard dribble spam the entire time they are playing.

xp changes = unsure. you've already done enough damage to the server by allowing for longer than a temporary duration to begin with. there is no easy solution to pull the needle from the vein on this one.

I think you will find it incredibly difficult to provide enough incentive and excitement to people to give this server another chance.

[Faerie]

Faerie should get an in-game title to celebrate all the horribad suggestions she makes.

That's Lady Faerie to you.

If your a sadist you can worship Innoruuk and be KOS everywhere.

Gnomes get Bertoxxolous and Brell (I actually like Brell). And they are super small. A big bonus in places like Sola or Solb.

Both races can wear dwarven ringmail. Which is viable in pvp over a fungi past level 30 IMO.

I don't think Iksar get dwarven ring. It's all quest armor (lots of boring foraging) or finding really odd items. MR is probably really rough on an Iksar.

Tier'Dal racial armor is super cool. But super hard to farm for. And statwise... not that great. But good enough in pvp.

If you're dark elf it really makes the most sense to worship Inny. Brell is super boring; Bertoxx gnome or no gnome imo. How is foraging boring? If I made wood elf it would likely be mostly for the forage skill and Tunare deity. I wish iksar could worship anything but Cazic, he's lame. Gear isn't a huge deal, I'll be going untwinked and don't expect much in the way of gear for a while.

Maybe we should stop taking this thread off topic lol.

[SamwiseRed]

That's Lady Faerie to you.



If you're dark elf it really makes the most sense to worship Inny. Brell is super boring; Bertoxx gnome or no gnome imo. How is foraging boring? If I made wood elf it would likely be mostly for the forage skill and Tunare deity. I wish iksar could worship anything but Cazic, he's lame. Gear isn't a huge deal, I'll be going untwinked and don't expect much in the way of gear for a while.

Maybe we should stop taking this thread off topic lol.

i did dark elf war, untwinked, no PL. i got to 20 solo by 2 hand strafe kiting and lots of afk. it was the most ridiculous thing ever. i also suck at everquest so for sure anyone can get to 20 here naked day 1. ill probably continue the no twink melee challenge sometime.

he worships inny. oh and one time lithiumm buffed me when he saw me in guk.

[Faerie]

i did dark elf war, untwinked, no PL. i got to 20 solo by 2 hand strafe kiting and lots of afk. it was the most ridiculous thing ever. i also suck at everquest so for sure anyone can get to 20 here naked day 1. ill probably continue the no twink melee challenge sometime.

he worships inny. oh and one time lithiumm buffed me when he saw me in guk.

Lol that's awesome. Warrior actually seems a lot easier than rogue. I think the most difficult would be human Bertoxx rogue, because you'd be blind and stuck in Qeynos.

[big mouth chew]

But please remove FoH chars from this, simply no one will group with them anyway (And they wont group with any other). Also keep in mind that Nihilum wont group with RD and several other guilds.

u wot m8

[Sturgeon]

How did this turn into a warrior race thread?

[runlvlzero]

How did this turn into a warrior race thread?

Need more elf warriors on box IMO. Would increase population a lot if people had lots more elf warriors to pixelate with.

[Modus]

One time I kicked a dead dog on the side of the road 39 times - and it suddenly sprang back to life!

Oh wait, that can't happen. It's never happened. It won't happen now.

Kill this shit-hole, no-lifer infested, toxic bleeding anus cesspool of a server and implement these changes on a NEW sever that has a CHANCE AT SUCCESS.

The MANY problems with this server have been left to FESTER by INCOMPETENT/NONEXISTENT support from the administrative staff. It's too late for a band-aid, and no OOC toggle-switch or adjustment to the exp modifier can mend the necrotic legions that have been left to linger for so long.

Want a healthy server? TAKE CARE OF IT. FIX BUGS, BALANCE CLASSES (ie: you can't wait 2 years to fix unresistable bard mezzes)

OOC too toxic? IMPLEMENT POLICY AND ENFORCE THE RULES.

Too much work for you? HIRE GMS AND GUIDES TO POLICE THE SERVER, THERE ARE PLENTY OF VOLUNTEERS - MONITOR THEM, AND FIRE ABUSIVE PERSONALITIES.

Players cheating/abusing/Fukashima level toxic? BAN PLAYERS, NOT CHARACTERS, THEN BAN THEIR REROLLS AND ALTS TOO. WHEN THEY COME BACK 2 MONTHS LATER AND YOU FIND OUT ABOUT IT, BAN THEM AGAIN.

This isn't fucking rocket science. If you build a fish tank, then neglect it for 2 years, you're going to come back to a scum-filled cesspool of decay and filth, populated only by the leeches and slugs that prefer a sickly environment.

I eagerly await TeamSZ99, and I think the server will be better due to Beta99's mistakes.

[Tradesonred]

How did this turn into a warrior race thread?

[Azure]

Need more elf warriors on box IMO. Would increase population a lot if people had lots more elf warriors to pixelate with.