Why I believe classic everquest is special

[Roth]

You know, I always come back to everquest every so often and play it for a while no matter what other games I play. And every time, there is this "feeling" I get when I make a newbie and go into the newbie area for the first time and start leveling. Even on higher level characters just playing them for a little why there's an experience there... it's not necessarily the same thing as "fun" because it's different from being fun, the combat is actually pretty boring. But the entire experience feels meaningful.

When I see all this about pantheon, I'm afraid it will miss the mark of what made eq good because people always say the challenge is what made the game. But I disagree. I don't think the challenge on its own is what made people love the game, personally I found corpse runs extremely frustrating. To me what always made the game good was the feeling of being in a real world, the mystery of not knowing what will happen next, the feeling of knowing that you can do anything you want and you may discover greatness or be forced into a horrible death with consequences.

When you start a new character, the game does not tell you what to do. You are free to do whatever you want. There is no set way to play the game. No quests, no guidelines, nothing. And I love this. You just go out into the world and start doing whatever you want to do. You go outside and start killing some monsters, maybe die a few times and learn... but you don't know what will come next. Even if you know what's out there because you played before, to your newbie character all of that is dangerous and you can only imagine going out there. You don't know what will come next because the game doesn't tell you what you do next.

Secondly, I think the consequences are not what makes the game but more like the rule enforcers. You have to care about doing things properly because of travel time, monster difficulty, leveling speed, and corpse runs. They force you to play the game properly. When these things are gone, it's too easy to lose immersion because you can bypass all the rules and start finding shortcuts to beat the game. I love being forced to travel, because it gives meaning to my location. Every area gains it's only value and the choice of where you go makes it interesting.


To summarize what I'm trying to say, if a dev wants to make a new eq they need to recapture the freedom, immersion, and mystery of eq. It can't just be oh groups, slow grinding, difficulty, etc. because that's not what made eq good. What made eq good was being put into this game world with some strict game rules but you were free to play it any way you wanted. No one told you how to navigate this world and that's what I think new mmos are lacking.

[fadetree]

Yes.

But there will never be game that really recaptures the EQ original experience, because there are no (gaming) people who have never experienced anything like it before.

[Grubbz]

There will never be another game like EQ, get over it.

[Roth]

There will never be another game like EQ, get over it.

And yet you're still on this game playing it after how many years? So obviously the game has something to make people want to come back to it.

[aldred]

... the game has something to make people want to come back to it...

Subliminal Manipulation :D

[Briac]

Personally i think you are right, add to that the game mechanics had excellent ways of bringing players together. If you wanted something done you often couldn’t do it alone. The mix of classes meant that utility was spread specifically to each class type.

I don’t think there will be another EQ, because EQ was first, there was nothing like it at the time. But I do believe that next 'experience' like no other will come with the invention of truly immersive game play, VR, Voice activation, motion controllers, Omni treadmills etc. When that all matures, it will be completely new, nothing like it has been before and thus will get that special experience once more.

[Grubbz]

And yet you're still on this game playing it after how many years? So obviously the game has something to make people want to come back to it.

1500 people is not alot........ we are the mmo minority now. Look at molten wow private servers, they have 4000 people on each server.

WE ARE THE MINORITY.

[joejccva71]

Community is what can make or break a game. Nowadays you have a plethora of asshat-istic douchbaggery beyond epic proportions which is one of the standing factors that can and has ruined games to this date.

[baalzy]

1500 people is not alot........ we are the mmo minority now. Look at molten wow private servers, they have 4000 people on each server.

WE ARE THE MINORITY.

Even at its peak EQ had like 1/10th the number of the subscriptions WoW had after its first year.

[Roth]

1500 people is not alot........ we are the mmo minority now. Look at molten wow private servers, they have 4000 people on each server.

WE ARE THE MINORITY.

I believe this is because first off project 1999 is very hard to set up, and it's a 15 year old game. Not many people know about it. To even get this many number is pretty amazing because that rivals most of the f2p Asian mmos that are out recently and actually supported.

Secondly I think the experience of eq is amazing... when I come back to play it for a little while it's just great. The Feeling as I said is still there. What's bad about eq is how boring combat can be, how boring grinding can be... the frustration of corpse runs... etc. Those things may or may not have shaped the game but they do tend to drive people away including myself.

What I'm getting at is that eq has a lot of bad but there is a feeling to the game that is THERE no matter how many times you come back you know it is, when I play wow or other mmos they may run or play better but there is no feeling of being in some other world or having some special experience. I would just like a game to recapture the experience with some new lands to explore.

[joejccva71]

1500 people is not alot........ we are the mmo minority now. Look at molten wow private servers, they have 4000 people on each server.

WE ARE THE MINORITY.

It's sad that the minority in MMO gaming are the ones who don't want to be placed in a high-chair with a bib around our necks ready for the next Gerber spoonful. Sadly 90% of the MMO community likes this.

[Roth]

Community is what can make or break a game. Nowadays you have a plethora of asshat-istic douchbaggery beyond epic proportions which is one of the standing factors that can and has ruined games to this date.

I disagree on this. I find that when I play games that encourage that sort of behavior I become more trolly and selfish. When I play eq the game forces me to be more of a decent human being. I think the game mechanics make you WANT to help others because of the feel the game has.

[jarshale]

It's sad that the minority in MMO gaming are the ones who don't want to be placed in a high-chair with a bib around our necks ready for the next Gerber spoonful. Sadly 90% of the MMO community likes this.

It's not really sad. It just makes sense. You're not going to attract a lot of people when you have to stare at a screen for half a day for just a chance to roll on some loot that might drop.

[Grubbz]

It's not really sad. It just makes sense. You're not going to attract a lot of people when you have to stare at a screen for half a day for just a chance to roll on some loot that might drop.

^^^^^^^^

[fadetree]

Who wants to attract a lot of people? Let em get their own game I say. Most of them are idjits anyways.

[Fame]

sig

[joejccva71]

It's not really sad. It just makes sense. You're not going to attract a lot of people when you have to stare at a screen for half a day for just a chance to roll on some loot that might drop.

That's fine, but atleast make it somewhat difficult and have some risk vs reward.

[Ahldagor]

face it folks, we are the odd weirdos that don't cry for our entertainment

[Asap]

This is the only game I play. It literally takes up all of my gaming time, and I'm okay with that.

My wife thinks I'm a weirdo for playing a 15 year old mmo with crappy graphics, but I don't care. EQ will always be my favorite video game of all time. I can't tell you the exact reasons, but it is.

[Oogei]

P1999 has a steady and healthy population. but i agree, it would have more people if it were easier to setup and was a little more open to advertising or just easier to find in general

[planeofdreams]

This is the only game I play. It literally takes up all of my gaming time, and I'm okay with that.

My wife thinks I'm a weirdo for playing a 15 year old mmo with crappy graphics, but I don't care. EQ will always be my favorite video game of all time. I can't tell you the exact reasons, but it is.

Same here. When I'm not playing P99 I'm usually not playing video games. Everquest is pretty much the only game I enjoy playing when I have the time to play games at all.

That sense of mystery where you have no idea what's over the next hill is priceless and unique in gaming.

[Asap]

Same here. When I'm not playing P99 I'm usually not playing video games. Everquest is pretty much the only game I enjoy playing when I have the time to play games at all.

That sense of mystery where you have no idea what's over the next hill is priceless and unique in gaming.

It could just be that it reminds me of when I was 12-13 years old and had not a worry in the world. As long as my grades were good, my parents paid for my separate phone line and my EQ subscription, and that's all that mattered.

Everquest reminds me of a simpler time, before I had a wife, kids, bills, etc.. While I play, perhaps it lets me escape reality for a few hours at a time.

[Blizze]

I'm with Magikas. The reasons people give for still playing this game make sense but the more I have thought about it the less I can put my finger on what it is that keeps me coming back.

I just thank my lucky stars for this project and that I happened to stumble upon it.

[Sgt1stClassPerkerwood]

I first started on Tallon Zek when Velious came out. Knowing nothing at all, I made a gnome warrior.. I headed up to Gfay to get my 'splorin on. Theres nothing like the rush of elves yelling "DARKIES AT ORC HILL" and watching as your shorty team and elf team coming together to rid GFay of the dahkness. Send them on a 1 way trip across the world, with no gear.

"Better not let me catch you in this zone again, your corpse is mine bitch!"

I was the baddest lvl 12 gnome warrior you ever laid eyes on.

[Oogei]

1500 people is not alot........ we are the mmo minority now. Look at molten wow private servers, they have 4000 people on each server.

WE ARE THE MINORITY.

maybe 4k on each server but i dont see them hitting 4k during peak hours, more like 2-2.3k. Plus molten wow's population is deceiving, a lot of the player numbers are boxed accounts

[Nikon]

This is the only game I play. It literally takes up all of my gaming time, and I'm okay with that.

My wife thinks I'm a weirdo for playing a 15 year old mmo with crappy graphics, but I don't care. EQ will always be my favorite video game of all time. I can't tell you the exact reasons, but it is.

This exactly.

[Oogei]

EQ Classic is special because it's the most complete MMORPG experience, and the best MMORPG still made. No other game offers what classic EQ has. It isn't complex on the surface but it's the sum of its parts that make it complex.

[Frug]

EQ Classic is special because it's the most complete MMORPG experience, and the best MMORPG still made. No other game offers what classic EQ has. It isn't complex on the surface but it's the sum of its parts that make it complex.

To some degree the magic is because it was magic. What does AC do? How *MUCH* XP am I getting? Why does this level seem to take so damn long? Why do trolls level so slow? What's my max damage? Why isn't alchemy working? Who offers quests? Where do I find <next guy in quest line>?

None of that was known for a long, long time. Even now the lack of immediate numeric feedback on every little thing makes it all so different from most games.

And, it's hard. Really hard, comparatively. I dinged a char to 3 last night and felt I'd really done something.

[Oogei]

You rely on each other to do things and go places, not only at level 60 but at level 1 as well. The pace of leveling lets you build relationships on your character via grouping and actually having to communicate with the people around you. You learn who is good at what on your server. You make friends and enjoy doing things together.

You can go to multiple spots at any part of the game to gain exp which gives it that sandbox feel, the game doesn't force you to do anything or go anywhere specific. You can camp a mob for loot for 8 hours or go help a group of new comers, buffing them, passing off your junky bank items, etc. You impact the overall game by what you do and who you meet.

The community plays a major part in it, things like gm events, casinos, fun level 1 gnome battles, raffles, all kinds of stuff. When I log onto EQ it doesn't feel like

[Marglar]

to me it's all about the difficulty and the immersion. the ambient sounds, music etc.. easy to just lose yourself in it for a while. no other mmo has really been able to create that kind of atmosphere for me.

[phacemeltar]

my new favorite thing to do is right when my toon goes into the world for the first time (after configuring my ui) i just run. i run off into the wild, not attacking anything, just running. eventually my toon will die, and i will go back to the starter zone, where i then begin to level up with none of the starting items.

[Portasaurus]

my new favorite thing to do is right when my toon goes into the world for the first time (after configuring my ui) i just run. i run off into the wild, not attacking anything, just running. eventually my toon will die, and i will go back to the starter zone, where i then begin to level up with none of the starting items.

Your eventual last name should be derived from the creature that ended up finally killing you on your maiden voyage.

[Number7]

There will never be another game like EQ, get over it.

You might want to pass along that memo to VR...

[fastboy21]

all good video games have "re-playability".

the problem with MMOs is that they change over time, so re-playability is just impossible.

for EQ, p99 is the solution to the desire to replay EQ.

[dbouya]

You know, I always come back to everquest every so often and play it for a while no matter what other games I play. And every time, there is this "feeling" I get when I make a newbie and go into the newbie area for the first time and start leveling. Even on higher level characters just playing them for a little why there's an experience there... it's not necessarily the same thing as "fun" because it's different from being fun, the combat is actually pretty boring. But the entire experience feels meaningful.

When I see all this about pantheon, I'm afraid it will miss the mark of what made eq good because people always say the challenge is what made the game. But I disagree. I don't think the challenge on its own is what made people love the game, personally I found corpse runs extremely frustrating. To me what always made the game good was the feeling of being in a real world, the mystery of not knowing what will happen next, the feeling of knowing that you can do anything you want and you may discover greatness or be forced into a horrible death with consequences.

When you start a new character, the game does not tell you what to do. You are free to do whatever you want. There is no set way to play the game. No quests, no guidelines, nothing. And I love this. You just go out into the world and start doing whatever you want to do. You go outside and start killing some monsters, maybe die a few times and learn... but you don't know what will come next. Even if you know what's out there because you played before, to your newbie character all of that is dangerous and you can only imagine going out there. You don't know what will come next because the game doesn't tell you what you do next.

Secondly, I think the consequences are not what makes the game but more like the rule enforcers. You have to care about doing things properly because of travel time, monster difficulty, leveling speed, and corpse runs. They force you to play the game properly. When these things are gone, it's too easy to lose immersion because you can bypass all the rules and start finding shortcuts to beat the game. I love being forced to travel, because it gives meaning to my location. Every area gains it's only value and the choice of where you go makes it interesting.


To summarize what I'm trying to say, if a dev wants to make a new eq they need to recapture the freedom, immersion, and mystery of eq. It can't just be oh groups, slow grinding, difficulty, etc. because that's not what made eq good. What made eq good was being put into this game world with some strict game rules but you were free to play it any way you wanted. No one told you how to navigate this world and that's what I think new mmos are lacking.


the same guy who designed EQ1 is going to design pantheon.... he's not going to have the problem of let's say being a different human being who might not do things the same way...