does CHA effect cleric/pally pacify spells

[Yoite]

Just looking for some clarification. Did some searching but couldn't find a solid answer. From what ive seen it does, but would like to see what others say.

[phacemeltar]

i have no idea, but when i give pallies CHA buff they seem to be appreciative

[Comapavik]

Higher cha gives you a lower chance to get agro on a resisted lull

[Yoite]

anyone know about how much CHA to make pacify resist not agro on a regular basis?

[Buriedpast]

Yes it does.

I could reliably get a 50% crit failure rate on a mob within 5 levels of me with about 55cha.
With 140+ it seems 95% effective.

Based on some non controlled, anecdotal feeling its as if there is multiple checks:
Spell resist check MR -level difference
Charisma resist check - cha level roll
And some sort of charisma resist check again based on MR again.

Reason I say that is say tolapumj for instance, with 240cha, I can calm and get crit resists quite often. A jugg though, calm resist 10x in a row with no aggro etc. Seems funky, or there is a specific mob resistance to it.

But for general xping and stuff, I find 140+ to be safe as houses.

[Yoite]

awesome! thanks so much for the great info

[Powtle]

I did some parses a while ago with my cleric:

LULL (156 lulls casted on a 100% RM guard) :
===========================
59 CHA : 53% of fails are critical
134 CHA : 24% of fails are critical

MEMBLUR/ATONE (178 blurs)
=============================
59 CHA : 41% success rate
134 CHA : 49% success rate

[Xelris]

Although that's still a relatively small sample, the difference is large enough to be significant and indicates that it does indeed affect paladin and cleric lull crit resists.

I've always wanted to borrow some gear on my enchanter for a project regarding CHA checks on things like lull, mez and charm. I could use my existing gear for 200+ cha tests, but I wanted to see what happened if I lowered that CHA as much as possible with various negative CHA pieces to see if the effect was exponential... Things like the helot-skull helm (-25 cha), fingerbone hoop (-10 cha), forsaken pariah mask (-25 cha), platinum skull rings (2x -10), gorilla hide leggings (-8 cha) and other interesting pieces to get the stat as low as possible and perform trials.

[Buriedpast]

Oh it does affect it 100%

But the sample size and test parameters need to be extended to a few more.

For instance, lvl 45 mob in KC - average xp mob
Level 51 drake in skyfire - average higher xp mob
Cliff Golem or Mycnoid Reaver OT - High MR low 58/56 mobs
Bitch on qeynos south docks - Average 61 mob.

100 casts on each at 70 and 140-150 cha would give a fairly finite answer on the rate per cha, an indication of a good sweet spot (I've found it to be 140+, with little to no change noticable 200+). As well as give some sort of answer about the really high MR mobs having an abnormally high crit resist rate (which could just be selective memory).

[Tecmos Deception]

Interesting that you don't see any difference above 140. There is a HUGE difference for Tecmos between the 140ish he is at when self-buffed and naked on a CR and the 240 he is at if I take him to the bank to grab his charisma CR gear. This is usually against the level 49-52 mobs in HS south. I never really rock ~200 to know if the 200+ points still have a big impact or anything though.

[Clark]

Higher cha gives you a lower chance to get agro on a resisted lull

[Yoite]

thanks for the input everyone. I have another question now. Based on what has been shown about the 140sweet spot, would it be worth it as a pally to go with high elf and put 10 or even 20 points into CHA. I would be using Rod of Faith as weapon so im not worried about dex for procs. I dont raid much but I do solo, duo, and group a lot and would like to be able to reliably pull but still be a pally.

[Danth]

I have another question now. Based on what has been shown about the 140sweet spot, would it be worth it as a pally to go with high elf and put 10 or even 20 points into CHA.

No, absolutely not. High Elves have pathetic melee stats to begin with; both their starting strength and stamina are abysmally low. Putting your points into charisma means you'd be running around with 65 base strength and 70 base stamina. As a non-raider you could make do with that amount of stamina (don't really need it except to maximize complete healing efficiency at the high end), but the strength will be awfully low and most folks don't like running around encountered most the time. A few people can live with it, but most folks are better-served by trying to maintain adequate stats. I suggest you leave your charisma alone at creation and instead ask for a charisma buff when desired.

Never try relying on the Lull spell line unless you can either a) survive the pull that'll result from a critical resist, or b) readily escape in the event of unwanted aggro.

Danth

[Yoite]

the 65str didnt really worry me, even with the slap together twink set i have i will be at 99str unbuffed if i start at 65.

I always follow those 2 rules when using lull, but a dwarf with 55 cha might as well not even have the line at all if it results in a crit resist 50% of the time. It would be nice to have it work more often even if it still resulted in them all coming sometimes. sometimes being the key, not almost everytime.

[Danth]

You're right about Dwarves having some trouble with the Lull line due to their low charisma. It's the closest thing they have to a weakness as a Paladin or Cleric. As a rule it doesn't matter too terribly much. Paladins aren't really ideal pullers. Even if you "only" aggro 1/4 or 1/5 of the time on a resist, that in practice feels like a lot when you're trying to lull a room with 4 mobs in it and each of them resists 2 or 3 times. When I use the Lull line, I do so expecting it not to work and think of it as a bonus if it does.

You may wish to consider a Human or Half Elf if you're determined to make a serious investment in charisma at creation. Either of them starts with only 5 less charisma than a High Elf but with significantly better melee stats. Don't worry about lower Wisdom too much; outside raids Paladins aren't ordinarily all that mana-intensive to play.

Danth

[Tecmos Deception]

Based on what has been shown about the 140sweet spot

No one has showed anything about 140 charisma being a lulling sweet spot.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Yeah definitely no sweet spot at 140 - I would argue (on personal experience not logs/parses) that there is a line of diminishing returns at 200 but if your pally is at 200 cha you're likely pretty gimped and unable to survive your single pull.

[Yoite]

I was planning on using 1 maybe 2 crude steins when lulling, for a quick and easy swap 15-30 cha. Other than that, i would either have to use cha gear that would either gimp me as a tank (which i wouldnt want to do), or invest in some mystical koada armor which has cha on pretty much every piece.

but even with heavy use of the high elf cultural armor and 2 steins i think thats only like 170ish.

[Lisset]

I was planning on using 1 maybe 2 crude steins when lulling, for a quick and easy swap 15-30 cha. Other than that, i would either have to use cha gear that would either gimp me as a tank (which i wouldnt want to do), or invest in some mystical koada armor which has cha on pretty much every piece.

but even with heavy use of the high elf cultural armor and 2 steins i think thats only like 170ish.

No you wouldn't.

1. Crude Steins are lore.

2. Crude Steins are secondary only.

[Nirgon]

CHA doesn't have a diminishing return like INT/WIS do on mana.

It's like strength... more is better every time.

[baalzy]

CHA also affects Divine Intervention proc rate. Velious geared tanks with buffs will eventually cap str/sta/dex (probably agi too) but charisma isn't as likely!
+25 cha (or 20 for hybrid) on creation!
(half-joke half-serious).

[Powtle]

LULL (156 lulls) :
===========================
59 CHA : 53% of fails are critical
134 CHA : 24% of fails are critical

I forgot to say that I casted the lull on a Freeport guard with boosted MR.
All of the 156 lull cast were resisted.
The sample is still small yea, but not that much considering all the casts account for the aggro/no-aggro stats.

[Raavak]

No wonder I get so much aggro... i'm a fugly dorf.