Question about a few missing features on P99

[Menaan]

Ok, so based on what I've seen from the forum community in my week of being on this server, I'm sure I'm going to get some flames for this. But I'm asking anyway for those that will actually respond constructively.

I notice some features missing from P99, and while I'm pretty sure that some of them were not around during the time era of Kunark / Velious, there are some features that just make sense, are useful, and do not really effect gameplay or the feel of the play that much.

First one, /corpsedrag. The command is there but it does not work. In some cases it performs a single corpse summon to you, but in others I've seen it not do anything. The only thing this does is prevent you from having to spam click a /corpse button. I don't really contribute spamming /corpse iconic to classic play, and I've been the primary CR for my groups / guilds since late in 99. Not to mention the corpse summoning on this server is just buggy and weird. The range of it is way shorter than I remember it being on live, and it feels just really laggy. Sometimes the corpse doesn't summon at all, sometimes it doesn't summon all the way to my feet, it's just weird. It makes me have to spam /corpse even more than I used to have to back in 99. So, why can't we implement /corpsedrag?

Second, multiple hotbar windows. I don't remember when this was added in live, but this is something else I really don't feel would detract from classic gameplay. Maybe they were added in Luclin when the new UI was originally implemented, but I can't think of any reason not to use them now. It merely prevents us from having to use the mouse or rotate hotbar windows as much.

Third, Auto consent options. They seem to do nothing on this server. I really don't see why these would not be implemented. These are again just a convenience so that you don't have to type /consent whomever and I really don't see where they detract from classic gameplay.

Fourth, mouse button binds. This one may be a titanium client limitation, I'm not sure. But for as long as I can remember I've had autorun bound to my mouse button 4. I cannot however make bindings to my mouse buttons on P99.


I'm sure there are more that I can't think of atm, these are just the ones I've noticed in the past week of playing on the server.

[Calibix]

I agree with corpse drag and auto consent. Don't see the difference.

You can get multiple hotbars by changing your UI. Check the tech forum.

Mouse binds don't bother me. I just bind the mouse button to some odd key like insert, then bind that in game.

[khanable]

what

spamming a corpse hotkey to drag some assholes corpse through a dungeon is about as classic as it gets

stop smoking drugs

[Swish]

Memory is a funny thing, I don't remember auto consent during Kunark and was using /corpse for my whole EQ career up to GoD :/

[Dweed]

If I'm not mistaken, in Velious some mobs will aggro you for dragging a corpse too close to them? This would be a good reason to maintain the old /corpse

[jarshale]

I don't really contribute spamming /corpse iconic to classic play, and I've been the primary CR for my groups / guilds since late in 99.


Maybe your memory is just bad. /corpse is classic as fuck.

[drktmplr12]

Maybe your memory is just bad. /corpse is classic as fuck.

[Agno]

Maybe your memory is just bad. /corpse is classic as fuck.

He didn't say it wasn't a part of classic, he said it wasn't an ICONIC part of the classic experience - it doesn't make the experience feel any different.

Learn to read / comprehend?

[rollin5k]

None of this was classic. Conclusion : its not "missing"

[Nirgon]

Well, /consent to fully loot corpse isn't here. So he's close.

Which is sad.

But probably isn't for a glaring CSR reason.

Not like people can be accountable for what's in trade windows let alone typing a command that lets another player FULLY LOOT THEM.

[rollin5k]

When i first started here people would say consent me. I was like lol yea right buddy

[Asap]

do not really effect gameplay.......why can't we implement /corpsedrag?...this is something else I really don't feel would detract from classic gameplay.......I really don't see why these would not be implemented. These are again just a convenience so that you don't have to type /consent whomever and I really don't see where they detract from classic gameplay.

The goal of this project isn't to cater to the individual and make life easier for you, it's to create a classic EverQuest. The abilities you listed are not classic, therefor will not exist, unless it existed between Vanilla and Velious.

If you think any of the abilities you listed were functioning between 1999 and 2001, create a bug report with evidence supporting your claims.

[myriverse]

They stopped the loot on consent very early in EQ, so it really would not be classic.

[Erati]

They stopped the loot on consent very early in EQ, so it really would not be classic.

the pits was in classic when your friend asked you to drag their corpse and you would accidentally click it in the process.

oh man ! how much copper/silver did you have? ugh !

[Aeolwind]

the pits was in classic when your friend asked you to drag their corpse and you would accidentally click it in the process.

oh man ! how much copper/silver did you have? ugh !

This helped you build a reputation though. Being a cleric, I hauled corpses all over during the loot phase. Would even 'sneak peaks' and give newbies gear and $$, "I accidentally looted the money on your corpse, here is 10p and a SBS".

[Rellapse36]

Fourth, mouse button binds. This one may be a titanium client limitation, I'm not sure. But for as long as I can remember I've had autorun bound to my mouse button 4. I cannot however make bindings to my mouse buttons on P99.



I got everything bound to my mouse. Just gotta set up your mouse software to bind your buttons to numbers.

http://i61.tinypic.com/255mafa.jpg

[Menaan]

Well, I must say most people responded as I expected. Very little constructive feedback.

The goal of this project isn't to cater to the individual and make life easier for you, it's to create a classic EverQuest. The abilities you listed are not classic, therefor will not exist, unless it existed between Vanilla and Velious.

If you think any of the abilities you listed were functioning between 1999 and 2001, create a bug report with evidence supporting your claims.

Perhaps the use of the Luclin UI, or any custom UI, should be banned then? They were not around between 1999 and 2001, why are we allowed to use them?

This is just one example, I'm sure can find more, of things that differ. I can understand not doing things like giving clerics lower level rez spells that were added later in the game and completely alter the difficulty of play, but I've yet to see a constructive reason on why not to add things that were mere conveniences other than "they weren't there in classic".

Anyone who remembers button mashing /corpse while doing CR as iconic must've been focusing to much on the button mashing lol. I much more fondly remember the difficulty of flopping through dungeons and trying not to die to casters, praying FD didn't fail at the wrong time, than I do the /corpse. In fact most of the time, post kunark at least, I had /corpse bound to movement keys and my fd key, when doing a cr and would rarely have to even press the /corpse button.

Is typing /consent xxxx really so much of an EQ memory for you that you would that adamantly oppose auto consents? I mean of course /consent was a big deal back when it gave full loot rights, but that isn't the case anymore.

I just don't see why we can't preserve the classic style experience but make enhancements that do not detract from the experience but provide conveniences, like the customizable UI.

[radditsu]

How do you ban a ui?

[Aeolwind]

Things aren't 'added' like Luclin UI's. We can't disable them in the client, yet. As soon as we are able to however, they'll disappear and be a footnote in the patch notes. =)

This project is not about convenience, or catering to the lowest common denominator. It is recreating the database & server side as closely to classic as can be achieved.

So yes, if a current function is useful, yet not classic. It will be scrutinized at some point. And destroyed.

[Naerron]

I have to disagree with the OP on all of the issues he raised. All of them make the game easier, and I think the quintessential thing that was trying to be preserved was the distinct difficulty of the game. And on that front every little piece matters. Besides /corpsedrag let you not only auto drag multiple bodies it also then let you click on and /corpse more,
So one rogue could drag like 5 people at once EASILY. So that's just one example but you can start to see how seemingly irrelevant features do actually make or break the game

[radditsu]

Back to the regressive interface BS. You are aware the ui in velious sucked donkey? I love how this project is obsessed with making the user experience worse in every aspect. Instead of a tolerable balance.

Have fun in screens the size of postage stamps.

[Asap]

Perhaps the use of the Luclin UI, or any custom UI, should be banned then? They were not around between 1999 and 2001, why are we allowed to use them?

I just don't see why we can't preserve the classic style experience but make enhancements that do not detract from the experience but provide conveniences, like the customizable UI.

Because there is no way to enforce or impose classic UI on Eqemu. I apologize if you feel like my post was not constructive, I am just stating what Devs have stated previously.

Why do you think we had a compass on here for years, and it was removed not long ago?

[Ravager]

Back to the regressive interface BS. You are aware the ui in velious sucked donkey? I love how this project is obsessed with making the user experience worse in every aspect. Instead of a tolerable balance.

Have fun in screens the size of postage stamps.

You have no idea how happy the original ui would make me.

[Asap]

Perhaps the use of the Luclin UI, or any custom UI, should be banned then? They were not around between 1999 and 2001, why are we allowed to use them?


Read my post, then read what a Dev just posted. Almost identical.

The goal of this project isn't to cater to the individual and make life easier for you, it's to create a classic EverQuest. The abilities you listed are not classic, therefor will not exist, unless it existed between Vanilla and Velious.

If you think any of the abilities you listed were functioning between 1999 and 2001, create a bug report with evidence supporting your claims.

Things aren't 'added' like Luclin UI's. We can't disable them in the client, yet. As soon as we are able to however, they'll disappear and be a footnote in the patch notes. =)

This project is not about convenience, or catering to the lowest common denominator. It is recreating the database & server side as closely to classic as can be achieved.

So yes, if a current function is useful, yet not classic. It will be scrutinized at some point. And destroyed.

[radditsu]

Late eq sucked due to lack of inspiration, not due to the client experience. Ripping out the ability to customize a user experience is dum.

[radditsu]

You have no idea how happy the original ui would make me.

A minority. Most here would like it for 5 minutes.

[Kazi]

If you're not playin on a 15" box monitor over dial-up, shit's not classic. Just sayin.

[Menaan]

Things aren't 'added' like Luclin UI's. We can't disable them in the client, yet. As soon as we are able to however, they'll disappear and be a footnote in the patch notes. =)

This project is not about convenience, or catering to the lowest common denominator. It is recreating the database & server side as closely to classic as can be achieved.

So yes, if a current function is useful, yet not classic. It will be scrutinized at some point. And destroyed.

I haven't looked at the code personally myself, I just figured if the map opening could be hooked and disabled as it is the UI itself could be :) (found out about the map due to my habbit from live of opening it lol, I have since unbound those keys, but already broken myself of the habbit of even trying to open it).

And my mistake, I thought the project was more about the original experience than an exact duplication. I'll keep that in mind. I hope when my monk gets to 60 they are as OP as they were pre luclin nerf at tanking better than warriors on trash hehe!

I have to disagree with the OP on all of the issues he raised. All of them make the game easier, and I think the quintessential thing that was trying to be preserved was the distinct difficulty of the game. And on that front every little piece matters. Besides /corpsedrag let you not only auto drag multiple bodies it also then let you click on and /corpse more,
So one rogue could drag like 5 people at once EASILY. So that's just one example but you can start to see how seemingly irrelevant features do actually make or break the game

I disagree with them making the game easier. I don't really consider typing /consent a difficulty factor in the least regard. And just to note, I routinely drug 4+ corpses when I did guild CRs, before /corpsedrag. It was not all that difficult to make a couple hotkeys that did /target, then /corpse. Most I ever did was 7, but that one did require me to pause every few feet to let it cycle through all the corpses. And as I said, if it's a single corpse, you can bind /corpse to other movement keys and barely need to use /corpse yourself.

If the /corpse didn't seem to have such a short range and feel so laggy on this server it would not be as big of a deal to me. I could be misremembering the range, but I swear it's only about 60% of the distance that it was on Live.

[Aeolwind]

Back to the regressive interface BS. You are aware the ui in velious sucked donkey? I love how this project is obsessed with making the user experience worse in every aspect. Instead of a tolerable balance.

Have fun in screens the size of postage stamps.

There has been some talk on this. If the vein continues, the 'size' of the window for the stone UI won't be an issue.

The Velious UI was a full screen UI, so forcing it wouldn't be a 'bad' thing.

[Aeolwind]

If you're not playin on a 15" box monitor over dial-up, shit's not classic. Just sayin.

Hmm, I wonder if I could convince Rogean to limit each connection to a max of 9600 baud? Talk about bandwidth savings!

Making me think could have horrible impacts =D.

[Aeolwind]

If the /corpse didn't seem to have such a short range and feel so laggy on this server it would not be as big of a deal to me. I could be misremembering the range, but I swear it's only about 60% of the distance that it was on Live.

This is probably a by-product of server/client interaction currently. There have been tweaks to NPC/Corpse/PC updates, so if this is something within say, the past 2 weeks of play, it is probably related to that and should improve.

[radditsu]

I had 1.5 mps dsl in 2000. 9600 too low.

[Kazi]

The worst was when you weren't done loading but you were "physically" in the zone. Died to so many trains that way.

[Aeolwind]

I had 1.5 mps dsl in 2000. 9600 too low.

I never EQ'd on Dial-up either. Cable internet showed up about the same time here. Co-inky-dink!

But 9600 evens the playing field, will bring back people lagging out and crashing on raids. And zones getting laggy when they hit 100 people. =D

[Kazi]

I never EQ'd on Dial-up either. Cable internet showed up about the same time here. Co-inky-dink!

But 9600 evens the playing field, will bring back people lagging out and crashing on raids. And zones getting laggy when they hit 100 people. =D

The ultimate classic experience is shouting, "laaaaaggggg." Make it so.

[jarshale]

Can we randomly disconnect players? Having a stable connection is in no way classic.

[Sarajo]

The only thing I remember about /corpse and /consent from classic was running 5 meters, doing a 180, then typing /corpse, then turning away, then running another 5, turning to face the corpse again, and typing /corpse. Usually by then I'd be in a safe enough place to loot.

Oh, and then the day I learned you could type /cor (/c and /co would be abbreviated forms of /con), and that you didn't have to face the corpse to drag it. That really sped things up.

But then, one day in Wakening Lands, I saw a corpse dragging itself past me really really fast! I actually stopped what I was doing because I was laughing hysterically at this obvious hacker and getting ready to petition them. I mean I knew they were invis, but how could they possibly type /cor that fast? HAX

Your memory of corpse dragging is a little different. I didn't discover all that newfangled fancypants autoconsent raid or auto corpse drag stuff until a week after PoP.

[webrunner5]

Can we randomly disconnect players? Having a stable connection is in no way classic.

True very true. :p

[hatelore]

If I'm not mistaken, in Velious some mobs will aggro you for dragging a corpse too close to them? This would be a good reason to maintain the old /corpse

Yup, giants in kael would for sure. That I remember. /Corpse is as classic as it gets. The corpsedrag features was way after velious if I remember correctly.

[hatelore]

I remember having a 56k modem when I started everquest. That was about the same time I quit playing warcraft 2 on ipx (kali). hah.

[Rathnir]

I'm asking anyway for those that will actually respond constructively.
For starters: The search (http://www.project1999.com/forums/search.php) feature is pretty amazing. Had you used it with just the word "hotbar" you probably would've come across this (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1264184&postcount=6) post.

there are some features that just make sense, are useful, and do not really effect gameplay or the feel of the play that much.
A prime example of this is the removal of Spell Sets. R.I.P. Spell Sets, we miss you. Even if it's only in a minor way, all 4 of the things you asked about "dumb down" the game. I'm sure a better case could be made for enabling chat channels. These have no actual affect on game play, other then player communication, which already goes thru Mumble, Ventrilo, TeamSpeak, and Batphones, and would give a much needed boost to people LFG, seeking answers to small questions, trying to make pick up raids etc. If we had these, you probably wouldn't have made a post you thought was going to get flamed. But that's just me hijacking your thread.

You should consider improving the wiki (http://wiki.project1999.com/) or making an informative post (http://www.project1999.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=63), contributing source developement (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6897) if you are familiar with code, or finding evidence and making a bug report (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=148528#post148528) for something that isn't correct for the time line.

After just a week of playing here, it's both short sighted and arrogant to think the small inconveniences you experience haven't been considered by the GMs, developers, programmers or 1,000+ daily player base.

And my mistake, I thought the project was more about the original experience than an exact duplication
Consider donating 10 dollars a month (http://www.project1999.com/index.php?pageid=donations). That is the be-all-end-all of the "Classic" argument.

[drktmplr12]

Hmm, I wonder if I could convince Rogean to limit each connection to a max of 9600 baud? Talk about bandwidth savings!

Making me think could have horrible impacts =D.
pls not 9600bps. holy lord that would be terrible. maybe 56k is tolerable..

[Tubben]

Hmm, I wonder if I could convince Rogean to limit each connection to a max of 9600 baud? Talk about bandwidth savings!

Making me think could have horrible impacts =D.

I had 14.4k and later 19.2k..

Just saying.

Anyway. I like the classic Everquest, but there are still some parts i just dont like.

I doubt i would play with the classic ui, i still have some screenshots. Some things - imho - dont need to be introduced into p1999.

P1999 is almost perfect how it is. I like the old gameplay, that you are not allowed to bot, that people group and alot more. I dont really need the 100% classic experience, just because *i* would not play the original everquest again. Some things can stay away :)

[Quineloe]

Honestly, if someone managed to upscale this UI here

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-17Y8ZOKquok/TVtyzVXJjpI/AAAAAAAADB0/RLGcEbkoHvY/s640/EQUI.jpg

to 1920 1080 and let us play like that, with the UI not overlapping with the actual graphics but the 3d graphics being just the visible window, I'd play like that.

[tristantio]

You can size the window with /viewport X Y W H (I may have the x/y and width/height mixed up) to do something like /viewport 660 0 600 400, which would give you a 600x400 graphical window top centered on a 1920x1080 monitor.

As long as a UI supports custom backgrounds for the windows, I'd think it would be doable (creating a "classic" UI with a smaller graphical window).

[fadetree]

Most people don't understand the 'its classic' thing. The purpose of this server is not to be a fun server for most people who want a kind of classic experience. The purpose of this server is to be EXACTLY classic for the current timeline period, including annoying and stupid parts. An exact replica, as far as possible. Nobody cares ( in terms of changing the server ) if a certain classic feature is stupid or annoying, or even broken, or not. At least, this is my understanding of it.

There's some things that are really hard to get exactly classic, like hidden calcs about AC and various other things that were never obvious. Other things, such as how or if a particular slash command works, are easier to do.

[Yonkec]

/viewport does not work on this server. I was not certain if it was intended or not so I never submitted a bug on it. That is certainly the first step into bringing back the old UI though.

Also, http://www.eqinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4726

Pretty sure we can get that working on the server, but I have no idea how one would "force" everyone to use it. I should be able to make it widescreen friendly, probably by inserting a second or third chat window in the middle, because fuck you if you want everything in the same chat window on a widescreen monitor. =)

[Hollywood]

The goal of this project isn't to cater to the individual and make life easier for you, it's to create a classic EverQuest. The abilities you listed are not classic, therefor will not exist, unless it existed between Vanilla and Velious.

If you think any of the abilities you listed were functioning between 1999 and 2001, create a bug report with evidence supporting your claims.

Most people don't understand the 'its classic' thing. The purpose of this server is not to be a fun server for most people who want a kind of classic experience. The purpose of this server is to be EXACTLY classic for the current timeline period, including annoying and stupid parts. An exact replica, as far as possible. Nobody cares ( in terms of changing the server ) if a certain classic feature is stupid or annoying, or even broken, or not. At least, this is my understanding of it.

There's some things that are really hard to get exactly classic, like hidden calcs about AC and various other things that were never obvious. Other things, such as how or if a particular slash command works, are easier to do.


Obviously, the server is not 100% classic in features or mechanics.

The frustrating part is that not all the features are benign (like item links in chat). There are some crucial aspects that are NOT classic, just look at the raid scene issues we've had for years...


Failing technical limitations, there's absolutely no reason that most of what he listed, could not be used.

[Byrjun]

There has been some talk on this. If the vein continues, the 'size' of the window for the stone UI won't be an issue.

The Velious UI was a full screen UI, so forcing it wouldn't be a 'bad' thing.

Velious UI wasn't made for wide screen monitors, and only having access to 1 chat window will probably free up a lot of camps as over half the population leaves.

[Haynar]

Classic != Easy

Some UI changes are coming. Stand by. Don't expect a craptastic small viewport. Ever.

H

[Nirgon]

Velious UI wasn't made for wide screen monitors, and only having access to 1 chat window will probably free up a lot of camps as over half the population leaves.


Considering even half the population that gets banned doesn't leave...

naw. We all got the disease.

[tristantio]

Was /viewport removed recently (like last patch)? I use it when playing on my 1920x1080 to give some black bars on the left and right of screen so the Y axis of my character (when zoomed out with mousewheel) has more space above the character.

[myriverse]

People who tend to get banned also tend toward the disease.

[Byrjun]

Classic != Easy

Some UI changes are coming. Stand by. Don't expect a craptastic small viewport. Ever.

H

I mean, we're not really discussing about what things are easy or not (well, I guess the OP was with /corpsedrag, I'm fine with just /corpse). But tampering with the UI is a different animal. EQ was made for like, 480x600 resolution monitors. If they COULD have fit more buttons/chat windows, they would have. Forcing a 480x600 resolution UI designed for 1999 monitors on people running wide screen resolution monitors in 2014 is a pretty terrible idea. Removing stuff like maps was classic progress, but forcing a 1 chat window UI is making the user experience worse for everyone for no reason.

It's not so much as it being "harder" as it is being "really fucking annoying" when you can never read anything in-game ever again.

[Quineloe]

EQ was made for like, 480x600 resolution monitors.
When EQ was released, gaming had long since progressed beyond 640x480 resolution.
1024x768 was the norm, rich people had rigs that could pull 1280x1024.

That classic UI was already pretty terrible back then and I remember using the full screen UI they had in Kunark.

[Yonkec]

Was /viewport removed recently (like last patch)? I use it when playing on my 1920x1080 to give some black bars on the left and right of screen so the Y axis of my character (when zoomed out with mousewheel) has more space above the character.

I can't say as ive only been active here again recently. I have tried to make use of it on multiple occasions though and though the chat window kicks back the default text whenever you type /viewport, it would not save nor modify the viewport itself whenever I type /viewport 100 50 1935 1005 etc. It just eats the command and says nothing/changes nothing. Perhaps I need to submit a bug report or beat my client back into submission?

[Yonkec]

When EQ was released, gaming had long since progressed beyond 640x480 resolution.
1024x768 was the norm, rich people had rigs that could pull 1280x1024.

That classic UI was already pretty terrible back then and I remember using the full screen UI they had in Kunark.

1280x1024 was the shit, and absolutely viable and available when EQ came out but it was also painful to use as most monitors could only push it at 60hz instead of 75-85hz. Anyone miss that gentle flickering and heavy dose of radiation from our trusty CRTs?

[Faerie]

Oh man it's gonna suck so bad when we're forced to give up custom UIs. That change was honestly probably the best thing the later devs ever did, aside from gnome SKs.

I like seeing my mana and hp numbers, along with their percentages. I like that my hp bars change colors when I'm playing a healer class. And I really, really like being able to swap weapons out and to access bags without taking up hotkey slots or opening up my inventory! The day this changes will be a day of mourning, to be sure.

On the topic of classic corpse looting... couldn't anyone loot the corpse of a person that died in pvp, and not just the person with the killing blow? Or maybe I'm remembering that wrong. Nirgon? :)

[Champion_Standing]

When EQ was released, gaming had long since progressed beyond 640x480 resolution.
1024x768 was the norm, rich people had rigs that could pull 1280x1024.

That classic UI was already pretty terrible back then and I remember using the full screen UI they had in Kunark.

Didn't the game just scale the screen when you went above 800x600 or 1024x768 though? Like it would just be a smaller box in the middle with black borders? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

[Faerie]

If classic fullscreen spellbook is required to med until 35 I'm rolling rogue on teams.

[mgellan]

I remember having a 56k modem when I started everquest. That was about the same time I quit playing warcraft 2 on ipx (kali). hah.

The ISP I built in 1997 had 100% 28.8kbps modems so definitely at least 28.8 and as I recall we started putting in banks of 56k modems pretty quickly... I too had cable at home by the time I started playing in 2000 (and a T1 at work :))

Regards,
Mg

[Quineloe]

Didn't the game just scale the screen when you went above 800x600 or 1024x768 though? Like it would just be a smaller box in the middle with black borders? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

That's only what happened with the "ancient" UI with the viewport. If you went into full screen, that didn't happen.

[Yonkec]

Can someone answer this, keeping in mind that I am only referring to cosmetic/QoL choices, and nothing relating to core gameplay or its mechanics?



Why does the opinion of those individuals who matter seem to be that "Classic was infallible and perfect and any attempts to improve on it must be shot dead." Anyone who EVER looks to improve a single piece of classic outside of game play and mechanics is categorized as a traitor it seems. These are only simple QoI improvements here, not DTing raid targets and warping through zones.

Verant, McQuade and whoever else was not infallible, was not perfect, and likely was restricted to a very specific toolbox due to budgets, technological constraints and time. What the poopsock is wrong with utilizing "newer" UI code, and /dragging of corpses (as a limited example)?

You have the ability to go so far beyond turning this into a carbon copy clusterfuck of antiquated norms and poor design choices, you can make it into what Everquest could have initially been if they had the time, insight, and knowledge. Yet I all here is "Fuck your custom UI's, Fuck your ability to hide your helmet, and most of all fuck Bards".

Why? If you want to get technical the phrase was "Fuck Monks." not bards.



If you want a classic UI, install one, they already exist. If you want to look at a spell-book as you meditate, tape a photo of Honey Boo-Boo to your monitor. That should be sufficient in size to hide most everything even on an eyefinity setup.

If you want to adhere so perfectly to 1999 EQ, that is your prerogative not mine as I contribute nothing productive to this and am not claiming otherwise. But why are you looking for force us to endure a "classic" UI, and intentionally breaking some of the improvements to the client that are present in Titanium...but you have no issue nerfing abilities and classes and techniques that were never changed in Classic?

Must be that time of the month for me, just don't forget that I do love everyone, even bards.

[Faerie]

Can someone answer this, keeping in mind that I am only referring to cosmetic/QoL choices, and nothing relating to core gameplay or its mechanics?



Why does the opinion of those individuals who matter seem to be that "Classic was infallible and perfect and any attempts to improve on it must be shot dead." Anyone who EVER looks to improve a single piece of classic outside of game play and mechanics is categorized as a traitor it seems. These are only simple QoI improvements here, not DTing raid targets and warping through zones.

Verant, McQuade and whoever else was not infallible, was not perfect, and likely was restricted to a very specific toolbox due to budgets, technological constraints and time. What the poopsock is wrong with utilizing "newer" UI code, and /dragging of corpses (as a limited example)?

You have the ability to go so far beyond turning this into a carbon copy clusterfuck of antiquated norms and poor design choices, you can make it into what Everquest could have initially been if they had the time, insight, and knowledge. Yet I all here is "Fuck your custom UI's, Fuck your ability to hide your helmet, and most of all fuck Bards".

Why? If you want to get technical the phrase was "Fuck Monks." not bards.



If you want a classic UI, install one, they already exist. If you want to look at a spell-book as you meditate, tape a photo of Honey Boo-Boo to your monitor. That should be sufficient in size to hide most everything even on an eyefinity setup.

If you want to adhere so perfectly to 1999 EQ, that is your prerogative not mine as I contribute nothing productive to this and am not claiming otherwise. But why are you looking for force us to endure a "classic" UI, and intentionally breaking some of the improvements to the client that are present in Titanium...but you have no issue nerfing abilities and classes and techniques that were never changed in Classic?

Must be that time of the month for me, just don't forget that I do love everyone, even bards.

Fucking bards over is very classic. To better emulate the classic experience, every other patch should introduce strange stacking and targeting issues with songs. Every couple years they should attempt to overhaul the entire bard casting system and break twisting for a bit.

But no, the reason seems to be simply that EQ got worse after Velious. To pick and choose which features were good and which weren't would be great for some other server, but I think the devs here sort of feel as though any deviation from classic (even the good stuff) is bad because they'd be coding in their own biases which would taint their vision for a truly classic server. Or something.

[Yonkec]

I totally get the majority of that thought. What I don't get and find sour is the push to essentially cut off one of the legs of the titanium client by systematically removing cosmetic/UI features that it contains.

Why is there this push to force a UI onto everyone that plays here, when the only people that are pushing for it can ALREADY INSTALL IT on their own computers, if they want it so badly? Why are we spending time trying to figure out how to enforce this anti-gay-marriage level nerf on the server instead of simply providing a workable classic ui package for those who want it?

[Faerie]

No one can spare us from classic's slings and arrows, and when UI changes come, we meet them alone.

[Lyra]

Forums are Classic.

This is the same discussion that took place in 1999, expect we were complaining about "the vision".

[fadetree]

Can someone answer this, keeping in mind that I am only referring to cosmetic/QoL choices, and nothing relating to core gameplay or its mechanics?



Why does the opinion of those individuals who matter seem to be that "Classic was infallible and perfect and any attempts to improve on it must be shot dead." Anyone who EVER looks to improve a single piece of classic outside of game play and mechanics is categorized as a traitor it seems. These are only simple QoI improvements here, not DTing raid targets and warping through zones.

Verant, McQuade and whoever else was not infallible, was not perfect, and likely was restricted to a very specific toolbox due to budgets, technological constraints and time. What the poopsock is wrong with utilizing "newer" UI code, and /dragging of corpses (as a limited example)?

You have the ability to go so far beyond turning this into a carbon copy clusterfuck of antiquated norms and poor design choices, you can make it into what Everquest could have initially been if they had the time, insight, and knowledge. Yet I all here is "Fuck your custom UI's, Fuck your ability to hide your helmet, and most of all fuck Bards".

Why? If you want to get technical the phrase was "Fuck Monks." not bards.



If you want a classic UI, install one, they already exist. If you want to look at a spell-book as you meditate, tape a photo of Honey Boo-Boo to your monitor. That should be sufficient in size to hide most everything even on an eyefinity setup.

If you want to adhere so perfectly to 1999 EQ, that is your prerogative not mine as I contribute nothing productive to this and am not claiming otherwise. But why are you looking for force us to endure a "classic" UI, and intentionally breaking some of the improvements to the client that are present in Titanium...but you have no issue nerfing abilities and classes and techniques that were never changed in Classic?

Must be that time of the month for me, just don't forget that I do love everyone, even bards.

Thats what I was trying to tell you. The PURPOSE of this server is to replicate classic. Not to be a enjoyable place to play for people who just want the good parts of classic. As it happens, I agree with you, there are things I wish they would change ( or leave ) but thats not the deal.

[Yonkec]

fadetree you missed my overall point. I get that, but why are they moving to force excessively minor COSMETIC choices on the entire player base when those choices can ALREADY be adhered to by anyone who desires them?

Oh, we want an analogy? Certainly!

Lets pretend this server is an operating table, where we all go to get minor and non-life threatening surgeries. Perhaps we all want breast augmentations. The Dev's are the surgeons. They are the only ones qualified to perform the operation, and the only ones keeping the lights on and the room stocked with whatever is necessary to give all of us hairy manboobs. The catch here is that there are two procedures that we can undergo to get them. All of the tools exist for either option in the room, there are no monentary limits as we all have adequate pixels for either procedure, and as the playerbase we each have our own preferences for which method we would like.

Option A) The devs can take out some tools and do everything by hand, without anesthesia, and requiring of hours and hours of time to open, stuff, and close our chubby chests.

Option B) The devs can put you under anesthesia, and utilize the high tech surgical da Vinci robot to make a minimal incision, stuff and close quickly with almost no pain, or scar.

The overall result is identical (Game mechanics, expansions, balance, itemization, bards sucking), but the path to get there(UI and /corpsedrag) is extremely different. What we have here are the devs outright telling us to gtfo if some of us opt for the more modern and painless option.

In no way does it alter the final result, only the path to get there. If some of you like pain and suffering you can easily and ALREADY choose that route. For those of us who prefer a bit less, we are being told that not only can we not coexist in a way that none of you would even be aware of as it is all client side, but that we should go fuck ourselves for even suggesting it, and that we are gonna like the antiquated pain that is about to be wrought for us.

None of you can even tell if I am using a modern vs classic UI, why the fuck is a classic UI going to be forced upon me in the future? For the record, this has nothing to do with spellbook medding, if you want to try to get that working I fully support that as it is mostly a GAMEPLAY element not a personal preference. Being attacked while blind and medding is significant. Being able to move my player window and change the color and artistic design of my bags is not.

[Quineloe]

we get it, you want the classic content with as modern a UI as possible.

[Yonkec]

No, I simply want the ability to make decisions for myself that in no way shape or form impact anyone else in any way on this server. Choices that you can't even tell that I have or have not made. Anything else I support 100%

[Wrench]

Velious UI wasn't made for wide screen monitors, and only having access to 1 chat window will probably free up a lot of camps as over half the population leaves.

this, multiple chat windows and scroll out to 3rd person are huge

the death of this server wont be lack of content, but implemented degrades

its not even about people not liking classic feels, its human nature, you get used to the slightly improved ui and cant go back

or new people coming to the server will find it too dated to get immersed in

the talk of 'the goal is classic, not what you want' is bs, the non classic changes made to this server to avoid exploits or improve the raid scene have already invalidated that argument

[fadetree]

fadetree you missed my overall point

Well, actually, I think you are missing mine. Why are they so excessively determined to remove non classic features even when they can be duplicated and even when they are a pain? Because : THATS THE PURPOSE OF THE SERVER, TO PERFECTLY DUPLICATE EVERYTHING ABOUT THE EQ OF THE TIMELINE. Period, no exceptions. The purpose of the server is to ENFORCE period limitations and everything possible about the way EQ worked then. The purpose of the server is not to be a fun place to play semi-calssic stuff that has the good parts left in, or to play classically if you want to. Whether it manifestly affects gameplay or not is not even a consideration.

And by 'they', I mean the devs, not the players. I am trying to explain their position, not to argue that its the one I like or that I think is the best.

*edit* of course, this is my understanding of the situation. Maybe a dev could elaborate on whether I am right or not. And like I said, I kind of wish they would relax things a bit on that regard. And, as has been pointed out, there have been non-classic fixes made...so...anyways if they really do go all the way on these UI issues I may drop out myself.

[Utmost]

I play p99 and my fav band is dark star orchestra. I am my own time machine.

[Nirgon]

Tons of classic "grief" implemented lately. Server pop has never been higher.

I hope Velious is devoid of /pizza, paid for bag slots etc. These "quality of life" fixes aren't for seekers of classic EQ.

WoW has flying mounts which RUINED world pvp in their game. Convenient? Yes.

[Champion_Standing]

fadetree you missed my overall point. I get that, but why are they moving to force excessively minor COSMETIC choices on the entire player base when those choices can ALREADY be adhered to by anyone who desires them?

Oh, we want an analogy? Certainly!

Lets pretend this server is an operating table, where we all go to get minor and non-life threatening surgeries. Perhaps we all want breast augmentations. The Dev's are the surgeons. They are the only ones qualified to perform the operation, and the only ones keeping the lights on and the room stocked with whatever is necessary to give all of us hairy manboobs. The catch here is that there are two procedures that we can undergo to get them. All of the tools exist for either option in the room, there are no monentary limits as we all have adequate pixels for either procedure, and as the playerbase we each have our own preferences for which method we would like.

Option A) The devs can take out some tools and do everything by hand, without anesthesia, and requiring of hours and hours of time to open, stuff, and close our chubby chests.

Option B) The devs can put you under anesthesia, and utilize the high tech surgical da Vinci robot to make a minimal incision, stuff and close quickly with almost no pain, or scar.

The overall result is identical (Game mechanics, expansions, balance, itemization, bards sucking), but the path to get there(UI and /corpsedrag) is extremely different. What we have here are the devs outright telling us to gtfo if some of us opt for the more modern and painless option.

In no way does it alter the final result, only the path to get there. If some of you like pain and suffering you can easily and ALREADY choose that route. For those of us who prefer a bit less, we are being told that not only can we not coexist in a way that none of you would even be aware of as it is all client side, but that we should go fuck ourselves for even suggesting it, and that we are gonna like the antiquated pain that is about to be wrought for us.

None of you can even tell if I am using a modern vs classic UI, why the fuck is a classic UI going to be forced upon me in the future? For the record, this has nothing to do with spellbook medding, if you want to try to get that working I fully support that as it is mostly a GAMEPLAY element not a personal preference. Being attacked while blind and medding is significant. Being able to move my player window and change the color and artistic design of my bags is not.

I seriously doubt they are going to force a completely classic UI, if they can even do that. AFAIK they can only determine what information the UI is allowed to obtain, and control features that require use of the database ie show helm.

However it would be nice if they would just say what kind of intentions they have with the UI, it isn't like it is some trade secret. We know what the goal of this server is so why be cryptic about it Haynar?!

[Robben]

Things aren't 'added' like Luclin UI's. We can't disable them in the client, yet. As soon as we are able to however, they'll disappear and be a footnote in the patch notes. =)

This project is not about convenience, or catering to the lowest common denominator. It is recreating the database & server side as closely to classic as can be achieved.

So yes, if a current function is useful, yet not classic. It will be scrutinized at some point. And destroyed.

This is why I love this project :D