Returned: Bards vs. Cleric vs. Enchanter?

[Cynosure]

I've returned to Project 1999 after hearing the sad news that Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is being shut down for good in July. ='(

It has been years since I've played here and even then I was only playing for the nostalgia factor. My main was a level 20 Iksar Shaman (level 21 now). I love my Shaman very much.. Shamans intrigue me IRL and I'm in love with herbalism, alchemy, and the likes. He is extremely fun to roleplay with. There have been a few issues with him, though:

There aren't many roleplayers and I've really gotten into his character and don't want to break it.
There are too many other shamans. Literally 3-7 in each zone I've been apart of so far.
His ability to find a group is severely hindered by the above. In bats of frustration I broke character to /ooc & /lfg on with no luck quite a few times in the past week.
He levels sooooooo slow. I actually put a good 10 hours into this character since coming back and I've only managed to gain a single level by killing as often as my health/mana allow.


I also have a level 15 bard that is also fun to play. I don't roleplay with her, but she has an easy time getting groups for the most part. I can't tell if it's natural or if it's because she has been in Crushbone for so long. My only issues with her is that I can't solo very well unless I kite (which is important to me for when I can't find a group due to my lack of play time) and that she hurts my fingers/brain quite a bit. She doesn't give me that satisfaction feeling as I'm not having to really pay attention to much.. I simply just hit the same 3-4 keys over and over in repetition. I'd rather be making tactical decisions hitting fewer buttons with more of an impact on the gameplay than spamming the same buffs over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (get it?)

I've always been very interested in the Enchanter class (though, I rarely play full-on casters in games unless they are healers--never been too good at it) as well as the Cleric. They both seem to be sought after in groups. Healing has always been my *thing* but I've never played a healer that doesn't come with an assload of jack-of-all-trade utility spells.

In Everquest classic, I played a bard to level 20 or so before getting the expansion and rolling an Iksar Beastord which instantly became my main. I pretty much played that Beastlord solely to end game and quit.

Do you have any suggestions for me? Does the bard get less spamming and more tactical at higher levels? Does an enchanter off that much to a group to be worth dying in two hits? Is there any chance a Cleric can solo/offer more to a group than just healing?

I need halps. <3

[webrunner5]

no...yes...no...over and over and over etc. :D

[Harmonium]

As for bards, later on they take on more responsibilities. Pulling and cc are things every bard needs to master. As for soloing.. No class can level faster than a bard solo. Hands down.

[Calibix]

As for bards, later on they take on more responsibilities. Pulling and cc are things every bard needs to master. As for soloing.. No class can level faster than a bard solo. Hands down.

With low HP gone idk about that anymore, at least not 50+. Once DL/EJ die up though yeah, aoe kites reign supreme.

@ OP

Bard does not get less spammy. You will forever be hitting a button twice every 3 seconds or more with interrupts or fizzles. There will be much equipment swapping and clickies. It does however get very tactical. High level bards, particularly epic bards, can do some seriously crazy shit.

Enchanters bring more to a group than any other class imo. They are an immensely powerful class played well. Great solo as well. I wouldn't call them traditional casters in an MMO sense as there has never really been caster classes similar to EQ Enchanters again.

Clerics will never really be a solo class, but being the supreme healer grouping is never an issue. In a group, often times you might need to root cc, or lull mobs for pull or safe passage. Outside of that its pretty much heal and buff.

[Harmonium]

I don't mind the 50-60 grind. That's where the bulk of players are, and the rewarding content. 1-50 is just a giant time sink.

[Calibix]

I don't mind the 50-60 grind. That's where the bulk of players are, and the rewarding content. 1-50 is just a giant time sink.

I agree with that, although I do enjoy doing some of the dungeons I haven't done with a group before.

[Sarajo]

It sounds like a bunch of alt-itis, and there's never an easy answer for this. It's a time-consuming disease you can only beat by trial and error and determination. I played up to level 12 on every class before I decided that the (probability of success)*(potental happiness payoff) of bard was the best for me.
But the point of my comment is actually just to tell you about the /stopsong macro trick. Instead of tapping 1, 12, 23, 34, 41[...] (or 1, 22, 33, 44, 11[...]) you can just make it so you only have to tap a button once to get your song on.

/stopsong
/cast 1


That's it. Then substitute "2" for "1" or whatever. Then drag it to your hotkeys. It takes a little to get used to not hitting things twice as often as you need to, and also not spazzing out and spamming a key (because spamming it is also spamming the /stopsong command so you have to actually watch for missed notes) but over the course of your life as a bard how many millions of keystrokes will this save you?

One more thing, out of curiosity: If you made a cleric, which race would you go and why?

[Shaakglith12194]

If you make a cleric you'll probably be soloing til like 14-16. You might get lucky and find a group, but I didn't get my first one on my cleric til 14, it was pretty brutal.

[baalzy]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Swish%27s_1-50_Cleric_SOLO_guide

Cleric can solo 1-50 just fine.
Won't be swift, but it's just as do-able as a wizard soloing 1-50 (which is also not swift). I'm doing ~1% (slightly more) every 7ish minutes on my cleric at spectres in feerrott at lvl 40. If I catch a clarity/c2 from an enchanter heading into hate I can do 2 specs in that time if I don't get many resists.

However, you're going to have a lot more luck finding parties then a wizard and so you won't have to worry about soloing as much.

[Skittlez]

If you play any caster it's gonna be slow going man. Even with shamans epic mana regen you will still be stitting 90% of your playing.

[baalzy]

If you play any caster it's gonna be slow going man. Even with shamans epic mana regen you will still be stitting 90% of your playing.

Correct. Just as the shaman gets higher they'll be sitting while things are sitting next to them, slowly dying. Instead of at lvl 20 where the shaman is sitting next to a corpse.

However, if you play a non-caster you'll be sitting while nothing is dying or you're sitting for 15-20 minutes per thing dying, instead of 3-4 minutes and the things dying will be much lower. Without a group that is.

I consider it a win when I can get slow, steady xp without a group while having a good chance of finding a group when I want to. It's why I'm soloing in the feerrott right now when I play my cleric, I don't often find myself with enough time to commit to a group without having to force them to stop because I need to AFK and take care of something every 20-30 minutes.

[Cynosure]

First off, thanks for the great number of responses. =)

As for bards, later on they take on more responsibilities. Pulling and cc are things every bard needs to master. As for soloing.. No class can level faster than a bard solo. Hands down.

That's good to hear!

I checked out some kiting tutorials and gave it a shot after reading a leveling guide and heading to East Karana.. however, I quickly found that kiting in this way is quite difficult. You have to constantly be holding down 3 buttons + twisting songs + running in a decent circle + cutting in at some magical distance where my chords land and I don't get hit (haven't had much success).


Enchanters bring more to a group than any other class imo. They are an immensely powerful class played well. Great solo as well. I wouldn't call them traditional casters in an MMO sense as there has never really been caster classes similar to EQ Enchanters again.

Clerics will never really be a solo class, but being the supreme healer grouping is never an issue. In a group, often times you might need to root cc, or lull mobs for pull or safe passage. Outside of that its pretty much heal and buff.

I might have to give the Enchanter a shot. I've only ever played one to level 8 which really didn't give me a great overview of what the class is all about.

I'm hoping to avoid the boringness associated with a single-click healer. =/ I guess cleric is out of reach for me, then.

It sounds like a bunch of alt-itis, and there's never an easy answer for this. It's a time-consuming disease you can only beat by trial and error and determination. I played up to level 12 on every class before I decided that the (probability of success)*(potental happiness payoff) of bard was the best for me.
But the point of my comment is actually just to tell you about the /stopsong macro trick. Instead of tapping 1, 12, 23, 34, 41[...] (or 1, 22, 33, 44, 11[...]) you can just make it so you only have to tap a button once to get your song on.

/stopsong
/cast 1


That's it. Then substitute "2" for "1" or whatever. Then drag it to your hotkeys. It takes a little to get used to not hitting things twice as often as you need to, and also not spazzing out and spamming a key (because spamming it is also spamming the /stopsong command so you have to actually watch for missed notes) but over the course of your life as a bard how many millions of keystrokes will this save you?

One more thing, out of curiosity: If you made a cleric, which race would you go and why?

Extremely helpful advice, thanks so much!!

I've always had alt-itis. I was trying to nip-it-in-the-bud, as they say, this go around to avoid creating 1203912309213 alts and feeling like I'm never going to make any progress.

And hmm.. I was debating between a Dwarf and a Halfling. I love Dwarves and they surely seem like a good fit for a Cleric (and an interesting roleplay combination that I've not yet tried).. plus the roll is always funny to watch. However, I read that Halflings get hide (which is extremely helpful) and also gain EXP faster (a HUGE plus to someone with very little game time per week--for instance, my game time tonight is being spent writing these replies!).

http://wiki.project1999.com/Swish%27s_1-50_Cleric_SOLO_guide

Cleric can solo 1-50 just fine.
Won't be swift, but it's just as do-able as a wizard soloing 1-50 (which is also not swift). I'm doing ~1% (slightly more) every 7ish minutes on my cleric at spectres in feerrott at lvl 40. If I catch a clarity/c2 from an enchanter heading into hate I can do 2 specs in that time if I don't get many resists.

However, you're going to have a lot more luck finding parties then a wizard and so you won't have to worry about soloing as much.

Thanks for the solo guide.

I see that it's possible.. but how deathly boring and tough is it? lol.

If you play any caster it's gonna be slow going man. Even with shamans epic mana regen you will still be stitting 90% of your playing.

That's pretty much the *only* downfall I have with my Shaman. I wouldn't mind not being able to find a group if I didn't only get 3 minutes of play time before having to sit and meditate for 15 minutes.

However, I do know that grouping takes this pressure off as you are expected to be sitting and can still interact with your group while doing so.

[Brocktree]

If you are the 21 shaman I saw lfg in overthere this weekend you are probably in the wrong zone for people your level. If you are willing to try your shaman some more I'd try running over to loio to lfg or if you want to find a port you can try heading to upper guk or maybe MM for groups.

Shamans get infinitely better at 24 when you get regen and cannie. I'd suggest trying to stick it out if you like your shaman you will love it when you hit 24. There are a ton on the server though.

[baalzy]

Well, at lvl 40 my soloing (as a cleric) consists of root, nuke 6x, root, nuke 3x. Sit for 7 minutes.

So, pretty boring. :P

[Mandalore93]

If you want to kite the lazy way on your bard just use strafe kiting. Hold one key while swapping instruments and twisting two songs.

[Shaniril]

Bard does not get less spammy. You will forever be hitting a button twice every 3 seconds or more with interrupts or fizzles.

/stopsong
/pause 1
/cast #

Now you only hit every button once! :D

[Calibix]

/stopsong
/pause 1
/cast #

Now you only hit every button once! :D

I don't macro anything if I don't have to. I feel like I lose control by using this particular macro so I don't use them. I know people gripe about how spammy Bard can be but its essentially 2 keystrokes every 3s. That is nothing compared to most modern games that probably a lot of a us have played. No big deal to me. /corpse though!

[Cynosure]

I will definitely stick with the Shaman. I just received good news that an old friend I used to play EQ live with is going to join me here at P99. He has always played a Magician/Necromancer (and sometimes made druid alts) during live. I believe he's rolling a Gnome Magician this time around so I will get to make one of those alts I had imagined to play with him until he hits level 21 at which point I will switch back to my Shaman for good.

I feel things will be much better with a duo partner.



If you are the 21 shaman I saw lfg in overthere this weekend you are probably in the wrong zone for people your level. If you are willing to try your shaman some more I'd try running over to loio to lfg or if you want to find a port you can try heading to upper guk or maybe MM for groups.

Shamans get infinitely better at 24 when you get regen and cannie. I'd suggest trying to stick it out if you like your shaman you will love it when you hit 24. There are a ton on the server though.

That was most likely me.. breaking character and then losing my mind in /ooc after 3 days of no groups. lol.

Well, at lvl 40 my soloing (as a cleric) consists of root, nuke 6x, root, nuke 3x. Sit for 7 minutes.

So, pretty boring. :P

How do you feel in duos/groups?

[webrunner5]

I play all 3 healer classes. It is pretty much sit on you ass stuff. Shaman is the hardest. Too many buffs all the time and Canni dance. You are so busy you can't pee. Cleric is the easiest but more boring. But their spells are mana efficient as hell. Don't REALLY need Clarity to make it. Druid was my favorite one till like level 52ish.

The Shaman is more powerful solo wise now in the 50's. They SUCK till level 24. But mine is a female Barb. Like I said a few threads ago I will regret not making a Ogre one because of the Stun and better stats when Velious comes out. :( Mobs hit a lot harder and summon more also.

I enjoyed the Druid because they can go anywhere in a heartbeat and also make a TON of plat porting, PLing. I probably charmed a lot more than I did Quading. And I still enjoy buffing noobs in the tunnel with it. It is a class that really helps people out on here in a lot of ways. So a lot of satisfaction with them. But they peter out healing group wise about level 50. Maybe a few more levels IF a Enchanter is in the group with C II. Slows help them also. They are pretty good damage dealers with their DD spells in groups. And they really help the Tank with Thorns and Snare. A GREAT class overall.

[Clark]

I don't mind the 50-60 grind. That's where the bulk of players are, and the rewarding content. 1-50 is just a giant time sink.

Hey 1-50 isn't that bad!

[Clark]

Well, at lvl 40 my soloing (as a cleric) consists of root, nuke 6x, root, nuke 3x. Sit for 7 minutes.

So, pretty boring. :P

Haha that's how I leveled my cleric too 1-60 mostly :D

[Cynosure]

I decided to go with an Enchanter to accompany my mage friend until he is of level 21 (at which point I will switch back to my Shaman)! I'm already loving the class thus far. I've been able to solo my way to level 4 in 2 hours and had enough cash to get all of my level 4 spells + 3 backpacks. This same task was hell on all my other characters. Lol

However, I'm a bit lost in Nektulos Forest.. any idea how I would get myself to Ak'Anon (or even Greater Faydark--a zone where I could navigate myself to Ak'Anon from familiarity)?

[webrunner5]

I decided to go with an Enchanter to accompany my mage friend until he is of level 21 (at which point I will switch back to my Shaman)! I'm already loving the class thus far. I've been able to solo my way to level 4 in 2 hours and had enough cash to get all of my level 4 spells + 3 backpacks. This same task was hell on all my other characters. Lol

However, I'm a bit lost in Nektulos Forest.. any idea how I would get myself to Ak'Anon (or even Greater Faydark--a zone where I could navigate myself to Ak'Anon from familiarity)?

Just go to EC tunnel and beg for a Port to Steamfont.

[Cynosure]

I managed to get one, thanks! =) It took me forever, but I'm finally in Ak'Anon.

I have about 200-300p on my Shaman. Think it'd be worth buying myself a nice robe or a couple of rings on this lowbie? =D

[sox7d]

1-50 is fun as hell imo. Sick of this race-to-the-end, solothon, playing-is-a-chore attitude that came from WoW (and all their updates nerfing time between 1 and max).

[Cynosure]

1-50 is fun as hell imo. Sick of this race-to-the-end, solothon, playing-is-a-chore attitude that came from WoW (and all their updates nerfing time between 1 and max).

Agreed!

..though, this level 7 is taking quite a while. LOL. My friend never logged on so I wasted hours getting to Ak'Anon and don't feel like running back. I want to use my Shaman's money to purchase some gear for her so she can kill a bit more efficiently but I don't want to have to run him all the way here too. :(

[Brocktree]

What is your enchanter's name?

[Cynosure]

What is your enchanter's name?

<3

Major thanks to Brocktree for saving me from those smelly gnomes and giving me some coin to play with!

Quite funny how he found me in SF without me ever giving him my name. lol

[Cynosure]

:eek:

...I just realized I played today for eight hours. LOL. I've been having a blast.

I did manage to get to level 8, though! I rolled her just this morning... so, I'm averaging more than a level per hour considering I spent about two hours getting to Ak'Anon earlier. I probably would have kept going if I didn't have to travel so far to get my level 8 pet (after having spent a good half hour checking all the spell merchants in the area, haha).

I may log back on later this evening. I'm on Gaeian, if anyone around my level would like to get together and team up! I believe my next tasks are to get to HHK to pick up my level 8 pet and then run through the Stein of Moggok quest.

=)

[formallydickman]

<3

Major thanks to Brocktree for saving me from those smelly gnomes and giving me some coin to play with!

Quite funny how he found me in SF without me ever giving him my name. lol

P99 newb-help at its finest

[Cynosure]

Awww, crap. I was slain in Kithicor Forest.

I thought I could make it through at night with SoW but a caster got me in 1 hit. Lost level 8, too!

[Clark]

Awww, crap. I was slain in Kithicor Forest.

I thought I could make it through at night with SoW but a caster got me in 1 hit. Lost level 8, too!

Don't forget to hug those walls and strafe! :D

[webrunner5]

Awww, crap. I was slain in Kithicor Forest.

I thought I could make it through at night with SoW but a caster got me in 1 hit. Lost level 8, too!

One of many more to come lol. This game can make you want to tear your hair out at times. Welcome aboard.

[Cynosure]

Tear your hair out is right.. I got all the way back to Kithicor and Taken happened to be there to resurrect me. I was thinking to myself, this couldn't be more perfect..

..then, as soon as Taken left a huge spawn of skeletons and dark elves plopped right at the entrance and killed me. I only had 1 strength from the rez so I had no where to go. =(

[Cynosure]

Phew!

After much peril and a few hours of traveling back to Kithicor, dying, and the zone crashing.. I have finally managed to recover my corpse, regain level 8, and am sitting safely in West Commonlands!

I'm going to AFK until it's daytime in game and make a dash for High Pass Hold!

I will also stop posting my game updates in this thread. I realize they're no longer on topic... plus, I doubt any of you need a day-to-day update on my progress. LOL.

My apologies.. and thanks for all of the support/advice!

You can find me on Gaeian (my newbie enchanter--8), Chryste (the bard that I don't play often--15), and my main Boogii (the schizophrenic shaman--21).

<3