Camping

[Sadad]

Guilds have been camping out a zone away from raid mobs - camping in Everfrost for Vox, the globe in TT for Trak, and so on.

Today we have seen multiple guilds camping in Timorous Deep for Faydedar. We were under the impression that we should be camping on the oasis docks.

Can we get a final ruling on this? Can we camp at the entrance of a zone or do we have to be a zone away?

[Jesseca]

I understood that a final was already made? No more then two people in zone otherwise you forfeit the mob?

If you have people clearing fear they can't take CT or Draco or they get suspended or banned.

[Sirken]

lemme talk to some staff and ill get an answer for u guys on the TD/Fay thing

[arsenalpow]

Can you also make a ruling on having exp groups during a mob's window?

[Sadad]

I understood that a final was already made? No more then two people in zone otherwise you forfeit the mob?

If you have people clearing fear they can't take CT or Draco or they get suspended or banned.

This is a separate issue. I'm asking if we are allowed to camp out toons and leave them logged out in zone.

Of course it doesn't matter too much if everybody's just going to sit a pet on the spawn point for 16 hours.

[getsome]

I am a bit concerned with TMO camping out 6+ pullers at the door to PD and camping multiple people in the pool room (SW spawn point). While PD and SW are in window. VP is just like every other zone in regards to raid rules. Max 2 people in the vicinity of a raid mob. The rest of them should be at zone in or outside.

[Splorf22]

Let me make a suggestion.

No more variance: every mob has a 1/n time to spawn every tick starting 4 hours after it was killed. In return, every mob's spawn will be broadcast to the server. No tracking, no poopsocking.

[Striiker]

I have been submitting questions around caping out in the zone with the raid mob via petitions in the forum and have received no answers. It would be nice if at least guild leaders could get improved communications lines with the staff to avoid all of these issues.. Here are the camp out locations I asked about:

Potential camp spots IN the zone:
Severilous: In Emerald Jungle at the TT zone line
Faydedar: In Timerous Deep on Ogre Island (from raft zone-in)
Talendor: In Skyfire at the ramp to Overthere
Venril Sathir: Inside KC at the zone line
Trakanon: Inside Seb at the zone in
Innoruuk: Inside Plane of Hate at zone in room
Cazic Thule & Dracoliche: Inside Plane of Hate at West Wall

We in Taken were still camping our raid force outside of the zones in question. We also have been adhering to the 2 members in the target zone maximum during the window. Having observed numerous other guilds camping out IN the zone is frustrating. We took the wait and see approach on Tuesday. If no guilds are contacted by staff about this and/or disciplined, we will follow suit going forward and start camping out in zone. Personally, I dislike this notion as it kind of encroaches on poop-socking and goes against the spirit of competition for mobilization.

On a related note, my opinion on being in a zone when a raid boss pops(during simulated re-pops) is that members must zone out and then zone in before being involved in the engage. Simulated repops can happen any time so the very least that a guild should be doing is leaving and then re-entering (unless this is specifically identified as being against the rules by the staff). This I think is in line with the spirit of no poop socking.

[Jesseca]

We in Taken were still camping our raid force outside of the zones in question. We also have been adhering to the 2 members in the target zone maximum during the window.

Azure Guard has been doing this as well.

[Striiker]

The other option would be for all raid guilds to agree to not camp out in zones with a target pop imminent. I would think that the staff would prefer to see us handle this ourselves rather than have to weigh in on it with rules.

Can we all agree to not camp out in the zone when you intend to go for a target? I think camping out at an adjacent zone is acceptable.
Also, can we all agree to require members present in a zone (actively playing or camped there), when a raid mob pops, to zone out before being involved in an engage?

I think that if we follow these requirements, we are adhering to both the spirit and letter of the no poop sock rules.

[Kope]

I suggest we make the rule as simple as possible for everyone to understand:

No camping in the zone of a mob you wish to take down, anything outside of the zone is fair game.

I think this would simplify the rule enough to where everyone could understand it, and it would be clear if there were any violations.

[quido]

Didn't they say KC entrance was fine, as was Seb entrance? I'd assume all the standard zone-ins are fine then, including Ogre Island in TD, between the port spots and TT zoneline in EJ, entrance to SolB/Perma, etc etc.

[Komodon]

I am a bit concerned with TMO camping out 6+ pullers at the door to PD and camping multiple people in the pool room (SW spawn point). While PD and SW are in window. VP is just like every other zone in regards to raid rules. Max 2 people in the vicinity of a raid mob. The rest of them should be at zone in or outside.

Of course, what you fail to mention in this is the meeting that took place in FE vent the previous night (you should really start attending these btw). Snackies and I specifically went over to address our concern over having spent the last couple Tuesdays consistently hassling Ubrella and Sloan over the same potential issue plus the "2 guild/1 target overlapping" that was routinely taking place (which to their credit, an immediate FE effort to straighten it out was made each time). After much discussion we both left that vent with an understanding that since these issues kept popping up, we would try not policing where pullers camped in VP this spawn cycle.

You seemingly also didn't have a problem with this while watching it all day long, since nobody heard a complaint out of anybody until PD went late in window (and we assume Hokushin started tiring of maintaining his "spinning at character select and logging/staying in briefly every 5 minutes" advantage over our 45 ranger tracker we had logged in most of the day :)). Sloan then sent me a tell claiming there was a huge misunderstanding and asked me to move those people back to entrance. We did, with him personally watching and later thanking me for it.

Anyways, like Kope i'm all for keeping things as simple and easy to police as possible. Although to note, i do find it a little puzzling here that some people apparently see sitting 40+ active people all day on the other side of a zoneline as being the much better solution here then simply camping your force offline at the entrance.

[getsome]

I follow the raid rule as posted by the server staff. If you want to make a side deal, you should be responsible for informing all parties. I was not informed and no one from FE corroborates your version of the conversation about allowing more than 2 people at a spawn point. I do not view following raid rules as policing, it is black and white.

I have problems when rules are broken, and seeing your 6+ pullers at PD was an issue for me. But 6+ pullers at the pd door is not breaking any rules unless those same pullers log on and help on the pd pull when it actually pops.

[Tanthallas]

Of course, what you fail to mention in this is the meeting that took place in FE vent the previous night (you should really start attending these btw). Snackies and I specifically went over to address our concern over having spent the last couple Tuesdays consistently hassling Ubrella and Sloan over the same potential issue plus the "2 guild/1 target overlapping" that was routinely taking place (which to their credit, an immediate FE effort to straighten it out was made each time). After much discussion we both left that vent with an understanding that since these issues kept popping up, we would try not policing where pullers camped in VP this spawn cycle.

You seemingly also didn't have a problem with this while watching it all day long, since nobody heard a complaint out of anybody until PD went late in window (and we assume Hokushin started tiring of maintaining his "spinning at character select and logging/staying in briefly every 5 minutes" advantage over our 45 ranger tracker we had logged in most of the day :)). Sloan then sent me a tell claiming there was a huge misunderstanding and asked me to move those people back to entrance. We did, with him personally watching and later thanking me for it.

Anyways, like Kope i'm all for keeping things as simple and easy to police as possible. Although to note, i do find it a little puzzling here that some people apparently see sitting 40+ active people all day on the other side of a zoneline as being the much better solution here then simply camping your force offline at the entrance.

FE and IB have never 'taken advantage' of any 2 guild/1 raid nonsense in regards to people present at spawn or logging in.

Other than that I really do appreciate how quickly you tried to deal with the issue, regardless of how it ended up playing out.

[Striiker]

Didn't they say KC entrance was fine, as was Seb entrance? I'd assume all the standard zone-ins are fine then, including Ogre Island in TD, between the port spots and TT zoneline in EJ, entrance to SolB/Perma, etc etc.

The issue is that nobody knows what their ruling is because there's an apparent intentional decision to not provide guidance and clarity here, regardless of how much we all ask. My petition submitted via the forums has been read but unanswered.

Again, I have been of the opinion that, absent clarification from GM's, we should be camping outside of target zones. If there's no response I guess it is safe to camp raid forces inside the zones as guilds are already doing. I just dislike this slow encroachment towards the spawn.. Camping out a little further into the zone allowed? Why camp at the zone line inside the zone.. move raid forces a little closer each time etc. Responses from the staff would solve this and we could move onto the next topic for discussion.

[quido]

Yeah I don't remember where it was said, but when the rules first came out, they said KC entrance and Seb entrance were fine. Until they say otherwise, I think it is fair to assume that the zone-ins are legit. A few zones merit further clarification. Saying we can't be in the zone is further from what was stated than assuming zone-ins of other zones (besides Seb and KC) are fine.

[Sadad]

Can we get a final ruling on this?

[Sirken]

Can we get a final ruling on this?
lemme talk to some staff and ill get an answer for u guys on the TD/Fay thing

^

[Ella`Ella]

It's a 7-minute pull from spawn point to ogre island. It takes less time to engage almost any other encounter. Does it really matter if you camp at ogre island or at the docks in Oasis?

These rules don't need to be lawyered, just use common sense.

[Sadad]

I'm not trying to lawyer anything. I'm trying to keep my guild from being lawyered in the future. You can't taunt BDA for breaking the rules then chide us for making sure we are working within them.

[Sirken]

im going to go ahead and say its allowed, because it really doesnt give an advantage as u still have to find and tag fay and itd be an nightmare to enforce

[Sadad]

Thank you.