Secrets of Mage-y goodness

[Nightblade]

In my random fits of boredom I occasionally encounter, I began to think on just how certain classes are best played. Most of them are pretty simple, if you put your mind to it, and with time played comes experience and technique.

The only one, for some reason, that I can't seem to grasp quite off the start is the mage. What the devil makes them so hideously overpowered to begin with? Is it merely chain casting your pet into the fray? Or merely reclaiming at the end of the fight to cast a new one?

I'm half-heartedly thinking about leveling one just to pass time between the periods where I can interest my wife in duo'ing with me, and would appreciate a little insight onto some of the things to watch out for, or skills to try to master while playing up said pet class.

Advice, links to pages and strategies, and all the like are much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[VictoryARC]

I'm curious too

[Vigilance]

Mage pets do a lot of damage, mage nukes do a lot of damage, mage pet gets damage shield. It's as simple as that.

[Nedala]

Mainly because the mage pet is overpowered and you can solo very good as a mage.

[Qaedain]

These messages are copy/pastes of PMs I sent to another P99 player inquiring about Mages. They are posted verbatim, so some elements may seem out of context:

Take a look at this table: http://www.xalmat.com/eqsummoners.com-old/eq1/pets-fire-library.html

The pet levels are true for Fire, Earth, Air and Water, so I just picked Fire as an example. You can see at level 4 that the maximum pet level is 6, but with the new changes, that pet could be as low as level 2. If the pet hits for 12, you know you have a maximum level pet.

Now skip ahead to level 49. We see that the pet's maximum level is 41. With these changes, that pet could be as low as level 37. Again, the pet's maximum hit will indicate the level.

Each level below the maximum will subtract 2 damage from the pet's maximum hit. So if your character level 49 pet is hitting for 56, he's a max level pet, but if he's hitting for 46, then you know you have a level 37 pet.

Soloing as a Mage is broadly unaffected by this change. Prior to the patch, the pet's level would fluctuate by up to five levels down, but he would always have the stats of the max level pet. Now the pet's stats will actually suffer with their level, but it is perfectly possible to summon a pet that's every bit as powerful as the ones you could always summon before. It'll just take a few casts to get one, and that's how it was on Live for years.

Yeah, it's annoying, but if you're anything like me, your pets last for several hours.

As for tips, I have a couple:

Carrying 60-80 Malachite. You'll chew through pets to get the good ones.

Always memorize both pet heals when you're soloing; you can cast them back to back.

Learn how to chain-summon: begin summoning a second pet while you're current one is alive. Right before the pet finishes its cast, hit the /pet get lost macro. The old pet will be replaced by a new one in 1-2 seconds, allowing you to engage much stronger mobs than you could with the health of a single pet.

Learn to root kite with the earth pet: the earth pet doesn't need to be in melee to root. Run to maximum range, then send him in to attack and back him off repeatedly until he gets a root off. Nuke like crazy and then repeat the process with your pet until another root lands. If you do it right, your pet will stay healthy, you won't get hit and the mob won't get to move much.

If you're in your 30s, farm Paw for Gnoll Hide Lariats. They proc a stun and your Air Pet can proc them like crazy, in addition to his own stun. Makes for a pretty awesome show in a dungeon if you know you'll be there for a while.

Quest in Temple of Sol Ro for the Earthen Boots. They provide a clicky invis from inventory that can be hotkeyed to quickly dismiss your pet if he gets lost, takes the wrong path or is otherwise threatening to cause a train.

Find a clicky item that has a low damage DD on it. You can use it to get the 1-2 points of damage necessary to ensure you'll receive maximum EXP if your pet can solo whatever you're fighting.

That's all I can think of for now.

You should absolutely pursue the focus items. The Staves of Elemental Mastery aren't especially important (unfavorable risk/reward ratio), but the Stein/Shovel/Broom/Torch should definitely be on your wishlist. You only need to have them equipped when the pet is summoned to get the effect; you can put it back in your bags afterward.

Chain-summoning's benefits outweigh the perils of a low level pet. Yes, you can kill reds this way, but not more than about 3-4 levels above you, otherwise you can't land a spell, and your pet can't land melee attacks.

Also for soloing I tend to use Fire, but I prefer to kill quickly. Earth is equally viable. For groups, always use Fire or Water, unless for some reason you need the Air's stun.

[hueylewis187]

Because the mage pets cost the least amount of mana.
You can just keep making them and the mage nukes are almost the same as a wizards.
Besides that the mage gets the biggest rain 'aoe' spells.

enchanter , necro and shammy pets do almost the same amount of damage. Just mage earth/water pets get more hp.

Only thing overpowered on a magician is chaining pets. Plus nuke like a wizard. Mage is the best dps class in the game atm. The pet can do as much as most 50 melee's in raid gear. Plus add in the lava bolts from the mage.

[Itchybottom]

Do this (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=704) quest, it will help in dungeons, and even give you something to do while you're medding to scout your next pull. Get your Torch of Alna, Shovel of Ponz, Stein of Ulissa, and Broom of Trilon.

Set up this hotbutton:

/pet back off
/pet attack

Use it whenever a mob comes running for you away from your pet (target said mob, hit the hotbutton, stand in place or run THROUGH the mob, to make sure your pet hits/taunts), also use it to break camps with an earth pet. Send your earth pet into two or three targets, root one, back the pet off, now you can better cleric your pet until root breaks. Pay attention to the "sinks into the ground" messages, take advantage of it, moving your pull if possible so the least amount of mobs are hitting your pet at any given time. Fire pet is another tactic for breaking in, but it'll require more heal spam.

If you know you're going to be dealing with a single hard hitting target, stick to your water pet. If you're dealing with a single target that hits about average for the level, fire pet will be far faster than anything else for the kill.

For travel, keep your earth pet memmed in case you run into some things that can see invis, pop your earth pet out to buy yourself some time to make it to the next zone.

With the level 49 air pet, try it out with two gnoll hide lariats -- most fights, a single mob will stay stunned and do very little damage to your pet.

If you're low on mana, your pet has less than 2 bubbles of health left and can only cast one more pet, one more heal, etc. Most of the time, it's best to just gate, med to full and come back for revenge. A corpse run, is rarely fun.

Always keep your Shielding buff on yourself, refresh it after you haste a pet. In earlier levels, two shield duration fades == time to re-cast Burnout or Burnout II on Gebkn. When you get Arch Shielding, just recast them both at the same time, should be fine. Later on, you can also use levitation (from the rings you summon) to gauge when you need to re-apply your pets damage shield (unless you're using fire, of course), or you can just use the tried and true shaman method -- hit yourself with the buff, then the pet, when it wears on you, it's about to wear on your pet. I rarely find the need to have a damage shield on myself though, every extra point of damage counts only in the most extreme situations.

I think chaining pets in most cases may be more mana efficient, but it's a real pain when you spend all of that mana, and your recent pet summon is light blue and gets eaten before you have a chance to med any of it back. I much prefer the pet cleric method of things, and burn targets down when they're at 30-40%. Seems like too much of a gamble, unless you're trying to kill some red rare spawn. Pets regen HP pretty fast when you tell them to sit out of combat, faster than your mana comes back.

[cured]

Mages do a lot of damage, yes, but they have no escape methods. No root, no snare, no fear, no DoTs. If your earth pet can't root something, and you have no SoW or Jboots, you aren't getting away if things turn sour.

[tuxqueot]

Ok, some pointers.

Level. It's stupid easy as a mage as long as you keep escape paths open and dont try to keep too much clear solo. I could post some pointers on where to go at what level but it's really not that hard.

Get JBoots. As a mage, this is stupid easy to do from level 40 on. Just need to find the AC camp open.

Get the Focus. Sol Ro temple, Phinny/PoHate drops, whatever you can get your hands on. Period, nuff said.

Farm the permafrost goblin jailmaster. He drops a net with 3 charges of instant cast root. Not even lore so I usually have 2 or 3 on me. It's a good save your ass kind of thing. I've missed the timing on chaining a pet on Allizesaur or noxious spider due to BSing or something and popping a root gives me time to recast pet.

When soloing, unless I get a client crash, I rarely die. I keep gate up, escape paths open, chose my game play carefully. I also keep Arch Shielding, Levitate and JBoots on at all times, when possible.

As for mage DPS, here are some hard numbers.

With the fire staff from PoHate, the level 49 fire pet maxes at 45 self DS. Hits for up to 58, quads. Four chains of this bad ass puppy usually takes down Allizesaur in OOT, five on the outside. Throw out a low level nuke for full exp if you're not maxed 50. And that's like the highest level non-raid/group encounter in the game right now. Some mages prefer the earth pet since it lasts longer, but fire pet kills faster due to self DS and all in all takes less mana to chain in new pet, throw it a burnout and turn it lose. With the earth pet you gotta also cast DS on it, which takes more mana and means more downtime.

Mage best nuke, lava bolt, 300 mana, 810 damage. 2.7 damage to mana ratio.
Wiz best nuke, ice comet, 400 mana, 1120 damage, 2.8 damage to mana ratio.

So as you can see from a pure nuking standpoint we're like 3.5% on the damage to mana ratio under a wizard. But add in pet DPS and we blow wizards out of the water. This trend continues through out the game, my level 85 mage I used to play on live was usually top first or second (third if I phoned it in) DPS on any given encounter during raids.

True, we can't quad kite. But we can kill just as fast as a quad kiter with out all that running around and dying.
True, we can't port or evac, just means we gotta play smarter.
We are what we are, a tank and spank class with the ability to be the tank, the healer and the nuker all rolled into one. Me and Jobantik, all the group we need.

[Lazortag]

Mage best nuke, lava bolt, 300 mana, 810 damage. 2.7 damage to mana ratio.
Wiz mest nuke, ice comet, 400 mana, 1120 damage, 2.8 damage to mana ratio.

So as you can see from a pure nuking standpoint we're like 3.5% on the damage to mana ratio under a wizard. But add in pet DPS and we blow wizards out of the water. This trend continues through out the game, my level 85 mage I used to play on live was usually top first or second (third if I phoned it in) DPS on any given encounter during raids.

This is so clearly nonsense. If the mage's best nuke were a 30 mana spell that did 81 damage your argument would be the exact same. Ice Comet is more than just 3.5% better than Lava Bolt - you have to factor in the fact that Ice Comet actually just does a shitton more damage at once, regardless of damage to mana ratio.

[tuxqueot]

simple math dude.

You have 2400 mana, I have 2400 mana.

You cast Ice Comet 6 times and are out of mana. You did 6720 damage.
I cast Lava Bolt 8 times for 6480 damage and still have a pet doing more DPS.

Sure, you did 240 more damage nuking than I did (or about 3.5% more), but which of us did the most damage over that fight?

[Lazortag]

simple math dude.

You have 2400 mana, I have 2400 mana.

You cast Ice Comet 6 times and are out of mana. You did 6720 damage.
I cast Lava Bolt 8 times for 6480 damage and still have a pet doing more DPS.

Sure, you did 240 more damage nuking than I did (or about 3.5% more), but which of us did the most damage over that fight?

simple math dude.

You have 2400 mana, I have 2400 mana.

You cast Ice Comet 6 times and are out of mana. You did 6720 damage.
I cast a spell that does 81 damage for 30 mana, 80 times, for 6480 damage and still have a pet doing more DPS.

Sure, you did 240 more damage nuking than I did, but which one of us did the most damage over that fight?

[rioisk]

simple math dude.

You have 2400 mana, I have 2400 mana.

You cast Ice Comet 6 times and are out of mana. You did 6720 damage.
I cast a spell that does 81 damage for 30 mana, 80 times, for 6480 damage and still have a pet doing more DPS.

Sure, you did 240 more damage nuking than I did, but which one of us did the most damage over that fight?

Your logic is sound but the differences in number of casts radically distorts what is actually going on. Mages may have to cast a few more times, not 80 times a wizard, to do the same amount of damage, but that doesn't matter in the long run during a raid where a wizard is constantly medding to do 1 more nuke while a mage's pet is constant DPS. Sure the burst fire is a slightly better on a wizard not to mention the base resist modifier is slightly better but overall the argument is that the slight reduction doesn't offset the pet DPS.

[rioisk]

There are no secrets to a mage. Get focus items. Use fire pet. Do single pulls over and over. Get jboots asap. Your pet is pretty much better dps then raid-geared melee classes + you get nukes.

[Lazortag]

Your logic is sound but the differences in number of casts radically distorts what is actually going on. Mages may have to cast a few more times, not 80 times a wizard, to do the same amount of damage, but that doesn't matter in the long run during a raid where a wizard is constantly medding to do 1 more nuke while a mage's pet is constant DPS. Sure the burst fire is a slightly better on a wizard not to mention the base resist modifier is slightly better but overall the argument is that the slight reduction doesn't offset the pet DPS.



That I understand. But his argument that it was only 3.5% better because it has a 3.5% better damage to mana ratio was ridiculous because it didn't factor in the number of times a wizard has to cast, and that was the point I wanted to make.

For the record, I think it's actually pretty clear that the addition of a pet (not to mention DS's) makes a mage's soloability/DPS/(mostly everything) quite a bit easier for them, but as a math major I had to nitpick a bit at the poster's reasoning that Ice Comet was only "3.5% better" than Lava Bolt.

[tuxqueot]

I am simply comparing wizard best nuke to a mages best nuke. I have no idea what you are trying to say. But okay, we'll run with it a bit, see how far it goes.

You cast Ice Comet 6 times. takes 6.3 seconds to cast, 2.25 seconds to reset. assuming you can chain cast with out aggro, your 6 casts take a total of 51.3 seconds and you are out of mana with nothing further to contribute.

I cast Lava Bolt 8 times. Takes 7 seconds to cast, 2.25 seconds to reset. Again, assuming I can chain cast with out aggro, takes 74 seconds and I am out of mana.

That gives you 23 seconds or we'll even be generous and give you a full 24 seconds or 4 ticks to regen some mana back while I am still casting. 4 ticks. Thats what? 80 mana regened? 100? Hell, I'll even be generous and say you get the full 400 to cast another Ice Comet (which is ridiculous, but hey, lets run with it).

So, you get a 7th cast of Ice Comet. Total damage, 7840. My total Damage, 6480 from nukes, plus my pet which as I said hits for up to 58, and quads. I'm still willing to bet my pet does more than the 1380 damage difference betwen you nuking and me nuking.

All I'm saying it's like the rabbit and the turtle. steady damage over time will out beat burst damage most of the time. And the mages pet makes up for and surpasses any lack of damage we may have in the nuking department.

[Lazortag]

again, I really was just nitpicking at the way you were trying to pinpoint the percentage by which one spell was better than another without even focusing on all of the relevant variables. Your main point is that mages outdo wizards in terms of DPS (I guess?), and you're probably right about that.

[Lazortag]

Also, just a cynical little comment: why is it that a few weeks ago people were acting like it was the end of the world because mages were "overnerfed", yet in this thread the consensus seems to be that they're still overpowered?

[tuxqueot]

shrug, I wasn't taking any variables into account because that wasn't my point. I was simply saying that mana to damage ratio, a wizards nuke per mana used is only 3.5% better than a mages.

This argument has been on the top of my mind recently due to raid usage of mod rods. It kills me to see a wizard using mod rods knowing that the mana I spent making them could have been better spent nuking myself than giving the mana to a wizard since the mana used to damage done ration is so tight.

To illustrate that point, here's some more hard numbers.

Mod rod costs 200 mana each. Does 225 damage, gives 150 mana.

So lets say for the sake of arguement a wizard used 3 mod rods to cast 1 ice comet. He takes 675 damage to get 450 mana, 400 of which is spent doing 1120 damage. Yes, I've seen it happen since we now have to trade mod rods directly or drop them on the ground for anyone to pick up.

Ok so the cleric in his group see him take 675 damage and throws a superior heal, 250 mana, for 600 point heal. Then the cleric uses 2 mod rods to get back the mana used on that heal. I know this because I've been feeding said cleric mod rods all night.

So I just spent 1000 of my mana to provide a wizard the mana to do 1120 damage. When I could have just cast 3 lava bolt myself and done up to 2430 damage.

I know you wanna talk about the other variables but what it really comes down to in the end is simple mana efficiency and the difference between a mage and a wizard in pure mana efficiency is very slight. I'm not saying wizards don't have their uses and for quick, fast, burst damage no other class can compare. But over time, the slower but steadier damage done by a mage will win out.

[tuxqueot]

Also, just a cynical little comment: why is it that a few weeks ago people were acting like it was the end of the world because mages were "overnerfed", yet in this thread the consensus seems to be that they're still overpowered?

I didn't have a problem with the "pet nerf". And yes, mages are very powerful, under the right circumstances. On live, my wife used to say playing a mage was almost like cheating. Then one day I soloed Innoruuk, then she said playing a mage was deffinately cheating.

However, Innoruuk was a blue /con. I've seen wizards, druids and necros solo kite red /cons that would eat my pet and then have me for desert. Because mages don't get any kind of snare and as long as the mobs don't summon, kiting is viable to those classes, but not to a mage. Every class has it's strengths and weaknesses. The mage just has to play a little smarter to over come those weaknesses, pick our battles more carefully.

[Qaedain]

Mages were plenty powerful in classic, RoK and SoV. Anyone who complained about pet variance is just QQ butthurt that their retardedly broken focus item was no longer broken.

[cured]

simple math dude.

You have 2400 mana, I have 2400 mana.

You cast Ice Comet 6 times and are out of mana. You did 6720 damage.
I cast a spell that does 81 damage for 30 mana, 80 times, for 6480 damage and still have a pet doing more DPS.

Sure, you did 240 more damage nuking than I did, but which one of us did the most damage over that fight?

Simple math dude.

You have 2400 mana, I have 2400 mana.

I cast Ice Comet 3 times and stop because you are dead.

[tj218]

/flamesuit on

For the original question: Mages quite simply are very OP. IMO Their abilites don't allign with Verant's vision (social / group focus) as they can make it 50 faster than any other class without ever having to group. (Guess you can tell I have mage envy here)

Really it doesn't make sense for hybrids to get a huge xp penalty while they still need groups to level effectively. Yet clases that can easily solo (Druid, Mage, Necro) in some cases get xp bonuses due to race selection. Mages/Necros should have to share the xp from a kill with their pet.

I still insist that the pets on this server are far more deadly than they ever were on live from 99-01.

[Amra]

Ya they should include all the bugs that went with pets on live and the horrible trains they cause and it would be about equal =P

[rioisk]

Mages still need their sword of runes swords to proc in the hands of their pets. We're not OP enough.

[Elissa]

Mages still need their sword of runes swords to proc in the hands of their pets. We're not OP enough.

Mine seem to proc...

[Bubbles]

I still insist that the pets on this server are far more deadly than they ever were on live from 99-01.

Not even close. Pre-nerf 49 necro pets on live with two fine steel daggers would absolutely level Lower Guk deadside... with extreme prejudice. On here caster pets are still heads and tails above PC melee, but i mean.... if you didn't witness actual mage and necro pets in early 1999, I don't know what to tell you. Words don't describe. :)

[rioisk]

Mine seem to proc...

On all mobs - not just summoned?

[martigan1983]

Simple math dude.

You have 2400 mana, I have 2400 mana.

I cast Ice Comet 3 times and stop because you are dead.

not really

you begin to cast ice comet

gebtik kick you for 2

spell was interrupted

you begin to cast ice comet

you whatever the emote is when the air pet stun you

spell was interrupted

you died

[RKromwell]

...

Sounds good until the wizard roots your pet.

[spoolie]

even better when the mage nullifies his pet to remove root... we can play this game all day.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Not even close. Pre-nerf 49 necro pets on live with two fine steel daggers would absolutely level Lower Guk deadside... with extreme prejudice. On here caster pets are still heads and tails above PC melee, but i mean.... if you didn't witness actual mage and necro pets in early 1999, I don't know what to tell you. Words don't describe. :)

Don't remember when it was, but it was sometime in early classic...a patch fked up necros...made it so they could have as many pets up as they wanted o_O. Lasted for a few days, too..messed up :P The horde was a nice touch--probably a forerunner to the PoP swarm pets D=

[guineapig]

Currently Rogues out DPS mages and wizards during raids... just a heads up. =)