Elder Scrolls Online Preorder out, rage incoming

[Oleris]

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/store?q=5260811b-ee92-4b69-a8a3-f995d5b196f0&p=42e9e609-9099-41b9-8976-cd93aa997b72&ts=1391002184&c=zenimaxonline&e=live&rt=Safetynet&h=b95097d00dc329c063b2ff1dc1fb9671



http://youtu.be/-G4CFCU0fWM


essentially: XP bonus, exclusive race for pre-order only, exclusive mount for a pay to play game. Youtube video explains why this is a bad idea.

[Millburn]

Prepare yourselves for a wave of "I told you so's"

[yevea]

I like the irony that Imperials are for pre-orders only.

[Psionide]

I don't understand all the rage over this. Plenty of games have the whole "you only get this if you pre-order" or exclusive items if you get the collector's edition.This isn't something new. If anything I would be more worried about the seemingly bland combat.

[Grimfan]

I'm kinda okay with this because I thought they wouldn't have imperials at all and that sort of half-ruined the game for me. At least I get to play my favorite race now :/

[Tenlaar]

The "rage" about it is because it's shady as hell. It's like when you buy a new xbox game on the first day it's released and find out there's already a DLC out...but wait, it's not a DLC. You just have to pay to unlock something that is already on the disk you just purchased.

It's charging for a whole product and then saying "But wait! You actually have to pay us more or you can only use 85% of what you just paid for."

[Grimfan]

They haven't charged you for anything yet so I'm not sure how they are charging you and then asking for more. This is an upfront pre-order bonus for a collectors edition, except instead of out of game swag like a keychain or some other stupid shit it's in game content that might not even be exclusive to the collectors edition down the line. It's actually not like anything you just listed at all because they are upfront about it. What you're talking about is actual shady practices.

[Tenlaar]

Box price + sub = access to all content.

Not having access to all races unless you pay more than box price + sub = shady bullshit.

[Tecmos Deception]

You guys won't have time for other MMOs when you're beta testing Velious in a few months, anyways.

[Grimfan]

Box price + sub = access to all content.

Not having access to all races unless you pay more than box price + sub = shady bullshit.

It's a collectors edition, it's a different box price but it's still a box price. There's nothing shady about it. It might put a bad taste in your mouth or whatever but it's 20$ for some extra goodies because you paid for a digital collectors edition. It's the same as getting a statue or whatever, it's all pretty meaningless. There are people who don't even care to be an imperial getting all whiny about it, it really doesn't matter in the long run. But you can call it shady if you want, it has nothing to do with the above scenario of buying a game only to have extra content being hidden behind a price tag after purchase. This is upfront and clear.

[Dr. Edge]

pass

[Lune]

This is pretty sleazy. Basically charging players extra $ for content they've already developed, and it's not just vanity shit, it's an entire race with its own racial bonuses.

Imagine if Everquest were released with a collectors edition you had to buy in order to play Half Elves, and that was the only way you could play that race.

To me it is a symbolic gesture as well... it shows the devs/publishers are willing to provide real, tangible, major rewards to people who will take out their wallet and pay for them.

Also, given the cross-faction freedom they briefly had up for basic pre-orders, I anticipate paid faction changes where you get to keep your race.

[Tradesonred]

lol they know its gonna be a failure so try to milk as much money as possible from people before the titanic sinks

[Uteunayr]

lol they know its gonna be a failure so try to milk as much money as possible from people before the titanic sinks

Yup. And with the game having a price tag of over 200 million now, they are going to want to milk it hard to make up for it. So, if each person buys the game (50), and pays for 1 month assuming no free 1 month, that's $65 per person for the first month to learn the game. 200,000,000 divided by 65 is 3,076,923 players to make up costs the first month. If they only get 1.5 million people (using TOR's first month value), they'd make $97,500,000 in the first month.

From there, they will make at best, $22,500,000 a month after the first month. If they retain their full player base rather than dropping off (as is the general trend), that means they need to have $200,000,000-$97,500,000, or $102,500,000, they will need to keep the 1.5 million people for roughly half a year to break even on development costs.

By 6 months in, a sizable chunk will have broken out of the game content, and make it take longer, and longer. If the game is actually a success, and the population grows, then it will drop to breaking even shorter.

So clearly they will want to up the price of buying in and micro transactions to extract the most resources in those first few months when they have their huge population. Plus, the $200 million figure is only a threshold from a few months ago, that cost is still rising.

[Byrjun]

It's a collectors edition, it's a different box price but it's still a box price. There's nothing shady about it. It might put a bad taste in your mouth or whatever but it's 20$ for some extra goodies because you paid for a digital collectors edition. It's the same as getting a statue or whatever, it's all pretty meaningless. There are people who don't even care to be an imperial getting all whiny about it, it really doesn't matter in the long run. But you can call it shady if you want, it has nothing to do with the above scenario of buying a game only to have extra content being hidden behind a price tag after purchase. This is upfront and clear.

It's basically $20 for an extra race, better mount, and exp bonus. That's essentially what we call a cash shop.

Box price + subscription fee + cash shop = shady fucking cashgrab. All these new WoW clones are the same - they care more about siphoning as much $ from you than they do about creating a quality game.

This is like a huge red flag. Anyone who felt like they made a quality game wouldn't tarnish it with these kinds of awful business practices.

This shit will be free to play within a year.

[Grimfan]

It's basically $20 for an extra race, better mount, and exp bonus. That's essentially what we call a cash shop.

Box price + subscription fee + cash shop = shady fucking cashgrab. All these new WoW clones are the same - they care more about siphoning as much $ from you than they do about creating a quality game.

This is like a huge red flag. Anyone who felt like they made a quality game wouldn't tarnish it with these kinds of awful business practices.

This shit will be free to play within a year.

This is a modern day digital collectors edition, if you haven't been playing MMO's since 2004, I understand, so I will lay it down for you with a few recent examples.

Rift: http://biobreak.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/is-the-rift-collectors-edition-worth-it/

This is before it went Free to Play.

SWTOR: http://techland.time.com/2011/12/20/star-wars-swag-to-ring-in-biowares-the-old-republic/

This is before it went FTP, the digital deluxe version had all the in game goodies without the cool stuff in the box.

TERA: http://store.steampowered.com/app/212753/?cc=nl

This shit is still available and was on day one. This is the same edition from before it went FTP.

The idea I'm trying to get across to you is that this is the normal thing now. Almost every game launches with a digital add-on package of mounts and such that you can buy. Most of these games did not start with a cash shop, in fact none of them did. Yes they found the FTP model more lucrative in the long run but that's just how things have evolved.

Mounts and vanity pets are in almost every digital collectors edition for an MMO out there. This time it included a race, but it's no more shady than any of the other games offering incentives for paying a little extra for a slightly easier experience.

Believe what you want however.

[Uteunayr]

There's a reason why all of those games are meh.

Free-to-Play Microtransaction came around as a means for new MMOs to be created without having a barrier to entry, as a way for new MMOs to survive with WoW out.

However, since then, it has changed the core of MMOs. It isn't so much about what you earn, and what you work for, because now you can pay for extra advantages so that your same amount of work nets more result, and exclusive items.

Most people see this, and go "Well, alright. So long as it is cosmetic." (as in TF2, DOTA 2, etc.), but when you go beyond that into things that have a direct effect on game play, rather than just cosmetics, it makes it so the game isn't giving back what you put in in terms of effort, but effort + real life money. That's an issue.

[Grimfan]

There's a reason why all of those games are meh.

Free-to-Play Microtransaction came around as a means for new MMOs to be created without having a barrier to entry, as a way for new MMOs to survive with WoW out.

However, since then, it has changed the core of MMOs. It isn't so much about what you earn, and what you work for, because now you can pay for extra advantages so that your same amount of work nets more result, and exclusive items.

Most people see this, and go "Well, alright. So long as it is cosmetic.", but when you go beyond that into things like a race, and items that are specific advantages over those without them based on money, it makes the game less about getting out of it what you put in in effort, and more about how much you pay in.

I don't believe that the reason that the above games I mentioned are meh is because they offered a collectors edition of the game, digital or otherwise. I do believe that they had some very flawed design principles and I also believe that ESO will probably be the last MMO if its kind. However, I don't believe it is a bad game and I don't think their decision to hide the 10th race behind the Imperial edition is really a big deal. Yeah it's a shitty move and they probably should not have done that, but to also complain about things like a mount and whatever else is really just rolling into full retard at this point and people are just looking for shit to hate. Games give you some small advantage these days for paying extra, even single player games.

I'm not saying that I enjoy that direction but it is something that is normal and a company shouldn't really be hated on for doing it. The rings are earnable in game (for the extra experience bonus when leveling with a friend) the mount is not implied to be any faster than any other mount you just save some money, and the other perks are probably pretty small. The ability to craft imperial armor was already in the last beta if you found the book, and if you have no interest in being Imperial race then it's probably not even that important to you to get the pack. In no way does this even imply that they are headed towards a cash shop either, Rift lasted a LONG time without moving to that model and it's a model that they decided to move to with their entire company and it had very little to do with the success of the game itself.

Bottom line for me though, this isn't shady. There's nothing in the shadows about this. It's all up front. Take it or leave it. Use a new word if you have to but there's nothing underhanded about the collectors edition.

[Uteunayr]

I'm not saying that I enjoy that direction but it is something that is normal and a company shouldn't really be hated on for doing it. The rings are earnable in game (for the extra experience bonus when leveling with a friend) the mount is not implied to be any faster than any other mount you just save some money, and the other perks are probably pretty small. The ability to craft imperial armor was already in the last beta if you found the book, and if you have no interest in being Imperial race then it's probably not even that important to you to get the pack. In no way does this even imply that they are headed towards a cash shop either, Rift lasted a LONG time without moving to that model and it's a model that they decided to move to with their entire company and it had very little to do with the success of the game itself.

Why? Why shouldn't we hate them for doing it? Bioware deserved the hate they got for Mass Effect 3. The moment we start saying what you are, saying it is normal so we shouldn't hate on people for it, that's consent for them to do it. No, raise bad press, make a fuss, scream and shout over it, or else the market will continue to devolve.

I have not paid for a game since Square Enix shut down Chrono Ressurrection, as they have shown absolutely nothing but contempt for any player based interaction with their legal IP. Sure, I myself will not be the straw that breaks the camel's back, but I am showing through my abstention in paying them that their policies are unacceptable. If you just pawn off the responsibility to others to not buy something you're against, you're equally as responsible for the state of the gaming market as it is.

[Ahldagor]

Why? Why shouldn't we hate them for doing it? Bioware deserved the hate they got for Mass Effect 3. The moment we start saying what you are, saying it is normal so we shouldn't hate on people for it, that's consent for them to do it. No, raise bad press, make a fuss, scream and shout over it, or else the market will continue to devolve.

I have not paid for a game since Square Enix shut down Chrono Ressurrection, as they have shown absolutely nothing but contempt for any player based interaction with their legal IP. Sure, I myself will not be the straw that breaks the camel's back, but I am showing through my abstention in paying them that their policies are unacceptable. If you just pawn off the responsibility to others to not buy something you're against, you're equally as responsible for the state of the gaming market as it is.

well said.

[MrSparkle001]

Bought the imperial edition for $64.

http://imageshack.com/a/img822/4707/zp5.gif

[Psionide]

[QUOTE=Byrjun;1298063]

they care more about siphoning as much $ from you than they do about creating a quality game.

QUOTE]

This is pretty much the business practice of every buisness out there these days. This is like when I buy a ticket that is supposed to grant me entrance into a venue but then also have to pay a "facility fee." Back in the day companies and salespeople used to care about a relationship with their consumers; today it's all about sucking that last possibly dollar they can get no matter what kind of bad taste they leave in the consumers mouth.

[Grimfan]

they care more about siphoning as much $ from you than they do about creating a quality game.

QUOTE]

This is pretty much the business practice of every buisness out there these days. This is like when I buy a ticket that is supposed to grant me entrance into a venue but then also have to pay a "facility fee." Back in the day companies and salespeople used to care about a relationship with their consumers; today it's all about sucking that last possibly dollar they can get no matter what kind of bad taste they leave in the consumers mouth.

Nope, not the same thing. This is like giving you an option to have a ticket into a venue that gives you a seat with a partial view with the option of upgrading for 20$ to a front row seat with an unobstructed view. What you just described is a hidden surcharge, there is nothing hidden about this. I really do wish people would figure out what they are angry about.

[Byrjun]

This is a modern day digital collectors edition, if you haven't been playing MMO's since 2004, I understand, so I will lay it down for you with a few recent examples.

Rift: http://biobreak.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/is-the-rift-collectors-edition-worth-it/

This is before it went Free to Play.

SWTOR: http://techland.time.com/2011/12/20/star-wars-swag-to-ring-in-biowares-the-old-republic/

This is before it went FTP, the digital deluxe version had all the in game goodies without the cool stuff in the box.

TERA: http://store.steampowered.com/app/212753/?cc=nl

This shit is still available and was on day one. This is the same edition from before it went FTP.

The idea I'm trying to get across to you is that this is the normal thing now. Almost every game launches with a digital add-on package of mounts and such that you can buy. Most of these games did not start with a cash shop, in fact none of them did. Yes they found the FTP model more lucrative in the long run but that's just how things have evolved.

And all those games were complete shit. They found the FTP model "more lucrative" because their shitty cashgrab MMOs failed and they didn't have a playerbase to get subscription $ through anymore.

Thanks for proving my point though.

Can TSO even last through the summer before crashing and burning and going FTP?

[Psionide]

Nope, not the same thing. This is like giving you an option to have a ticket into a venue that gives you a seat with a partial view with the option of upgrading for 20$ to a front row seat with an unobstructed view. What you just described is a hidden surcharge, there is nothing hidden about this. I really do wish people would figure out what they are angry about.

I wasn't saying it was like the ESO model. I was using that as example of companies nowadays that try to get every dollar out of you that they can. Also, I was defending the Imperial Edition on the first page. I really do wish people would read.

[Estolcles]

Making it so that one entire race is only available to a select few instead of the entire player base is a bad idea. It's like the half-elf comment earlier.

Because I can't preorder or afford the special edition, I can't play a race I normally always play as in the previous 1 player games.

This ruins the game for me, meaning that's one less person who's gonna buy it. I know I'm not the only one in this hole. This is gonna cost them some customers.

Hopefully they'll figure this out, and make the Imperials availble somewhere further down the line.

[Grubbz]

Bought the imperial edition for $64.

http://imageshack.com/a/img822/4707/zp5.gif


Me to bro, haters gonna hate.

[Breeziyo]

AtlanTES will sink just like TORtanic did. The only MMO that looks like it might be decent at the moment is Wildstar, but even that's iffy.

This exclusive pre-order race made me genuinely laugh and I'm glad I never bought into the hype.

[Swish]

Shit is pretty stupid, locking everyone else out of playing a certain race etc.

Hopefully they'll "pull an EA" who basically gave out the BF3 Karkand map to everyone who signed up to "premium" despite people paying extra for the collector's/premium edition box.

Again though, we're a dying generation of gamers... youngsters out there from WoW onwards are used to this shit now and it won't stop them buying it :/

[Grubbz]

All i hear is "wha wha im to poor to afford game wha wha"

[Byrjun]

All i hear is "wha wha im to poor to afford game wha wha"

All I hear is someone who didn't read the thread.

[MrSparkle001]

All I hear is someone who didn't read the thread.

A whole lot of the complaints about ESO (not just here on this forum) have been about the subscription. I think people are getting too used to not having to pay. A lot of the complaints about the imperial edition have been about either not wanting to pay or not able to pay.

And let's face it, $64 is not out of the ballpark when it comes to videogame prices. The average game now is what, $50-$60? (I paid $60 for BF4) So for $64 I get the game, my favorite TES race, the ability to play any other race in any faction, a mount, some useless pets, 5 treasure maps, two rings that give me and a friend extra XP when adventuring together, 5 days early access and $15 for the first month of play.

Or I can be a cheapass and say "wah I don't want to pay, everything should be free, I don't even want to pay a subscription".